Top Scientist PROVES: Telepathy May Be Real! | "Death & Space-Time Are an ILLUSION" | Donald Hoffman

In this mind-bending episode of The Arora Show, hosts Amira and Aryaan Arora sit down with renowned cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman to explore a revolutionary theory of existence: that space, time, and physical objects are not fundamental reality, but rather a highly simplified user interface designed for evolutionary survival. Hoffman explains how both evolutionary game theory and high-energy theoretical physics converge on the conclusion that spacetime is doomed, forcing us to look for a deeper foundation of reality.

Hoffman proposes that consciousness itself is the fundamental fabric of the universe. He introduces trace logic, a mathematically precise framework of conscious observers that operates outside of spacetime. Through this lens, the conversation dives into the illusion of physical embodiment, the potential of telepathic and disembodied cognition, and why mainstream neuroscience has hit a principled wall in trying to explain how the brain creates conscious experience.

The dialogue also takes a deeply personal turn as host Aryaan shares his own profound near-death experience, illustrating Hoffman's mathematical prediction that disembodied consciousness is actually the norm rather than the exception. From artificial intelligence and Gödel's incompleteness theorem to ancient spiritual traditions and the ultimate purpose of human life, this episode challenges our most basic assumptions about what we are and what it means to exist.

Key takeaways

• Spacetime and physical objects are not fundamental reality but function as a simplified virtual reality headset designed to help us survive.
• Mathematical formulations of evolutionary game theory prove that organisms shaped to see the absolute truth will always go extinct in competition with those shaped for fitness.
• High-energy physics and positive geometries like the amplituhedron demonstrate that spacetime ceases to have operational meaning at the Planck scale.
• Hoffman's trace logic suggests that embodiment is a highly rare exception and that disembodied consciousness is the generic state of existence.
• Mainstream neuroscience fails to solve the hard problem of consciousness because it incorrectly assumes that physical brains create conscious experiences.
• The ultimate nature of reality is a singular consciousness experiencing itself through an infinite variety of temporary avatars.

Highlights

• 0:03:15 — Spacetime is not fundamental
• 0:16:23 — The Grand Theft Auto analogy
• 0:24:56 — The hard problem of consciousness
• 0:58:04 — Why spacetime is doomed
• 1:05:45 — Embodiment is the exception
• 1:21:34 — Aryaan shares his near-death experience
• 1:34:39 — The discovery of trace logic
• 2:29:11 — The ultimate purpose of life

00:00:00 Spacetime Is Not Fundamental
00:02:29 The Case Against Physical Reality
00:10:25 Why Evolution Hides the Truth
00:18:55 The Hard Problem of Consciousness
00:30:53 Can Artificial Intelligence Become Conscious
00:57:45 Why Spacetime Is Doomed
01:04:40 The Mathematics of Disembodied Consciousness
01:21:34 Near Death Experiences and True Reality
01:30:01 The Logic of Zero Surprise
01:43:04 Godel Incompleteness and Conscious Observers
01:58:00 Bridging Science and Ancient Spirituality
02:15:45 Facing Death and Overcoming Attachment
02:25:13 The Ultimate Purpose of Human Existence

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But<00:03:47.920> as<00:03:48.080> a<00:03:48.239> scientist,<00:03:48.560> I<00:03:48.799> want<00:03:48.959> to<00:03:49.200> at<00:03:49.280> least<00:03:49.599> take<00:03:49.760> the<00:03:50.000> next<00:03:50.159> step<00:03:50.799> to<00:03:51.120> find<00:03:51.360> something<00:03:51.599> more<00:03:51.840> fundamental<00:03:52.400> than<00:03:52.879> what<00:03:53.200> we<00:03:53.440> have<00:03:53.680> already<00:03:53.920> assumed<00:03:54.480> was<00:03:54.959> basic,<00:03:55.360> namely

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space<00:03:55.920> and<00:03:56.159> time.<00:03:56.720> So<00:03:56.959> I'm<00:03:57.200> looking<00:03:57.360> at<00:03:57.519> consciousness<00:03:58.080> as<00:03:58.400> being<00:03:58.720> more<00:03:59.040> fundamental<00:03:59.680> than<00:04:00.000> spacetime.

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Wow.<00:04:01.439> And<00:04:01.599> and<00:04:01.840> Donald<00:04:02.239> are<00:04:02.480> so<00:04:02.640> is<00:04:02.799> it<00:04:02.959> right<00:04:03.120> to<00:04:03.200> say<00:04:03.360> you're<00:04:03.599> basically<00:04:04.000> saying<00:04:04.400> evolution<00:04:04.959> did<00:04:05.200> not<00:04:05.439> shape<00:04:05.760> us<00:04:06.000> to<00:04:06.319> see<00:04:06.799> the<00:04:07.120> truth.

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So<00:04:07.920> what<00:04:08.159> we<00:04:08.480> experience<00:04:09.040> is<00:04:09.280> more<00:04:09.519> like<00:04:10.159> a<00:04:10.400> useful<00:04:11.200> interface<00:04:11.760> than<00:04:12.000> reality<00:04:12.480> itself.

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Is<00:04:13.040> that<00:04:13.200> a<00:04:13.439> fair<00:04:13.599> way<00:04:13.760> to<00:04:13.920> put<00:04:14.080> it?<00:04:14.799> Yes.

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And<00:04:15.439> so<00:04:15.599> it's<00:04:15.920> Yeah.<00:04:16.160> So<00:04:16.320> I<00:04:16.479> do<00:04:16.959> argue<00:04:17.359> that<00:04:17.680> evolution<00:04:18.160> by<00:04:18.400> natural<00:04:18.720> selection<00:04:19.680> Darwin's<00:04:20.160> theory<00:04:20.639> when<00:04:20.880> you<00:04:21.600> formulate<00:04:22.000> it<00:04:22.160> in<00:04:22.320> mathematical<00:04:22.880> terms<00:04:23.120> using<00:04:23.440> evolutionary

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game<00:04:24.240> theory<00:04:24.960> you<00:04:25.440> come<00:04:25.600> to<00:04:25.840> the<00:04:26.000> same<00:04:26.160> conclusion<00:04:26.639> that<00:04:26.960> the<00:04:27.199> high<00:04:27.360> energy<00:04:27.680> theoretical<00:04:28.240> physicists<00:04:28.800> are<00:04:28.960> saying<00:04:29.360> that<00:04:29.600> spacetime<00:04:30.080> is<00:04:30.240> not<00:04:30.400> fundamental.

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So<00:04:31.759> it's<00:04:32.160> quite<00:04:32.400> remarkable<00:04:32.800> that<00:04:33.120> our<00:04:33.360> best<00:04:33.919> theories<00:04:34.240> in<00:04:34.400> physics<00:04:34.800> and<00:04:35.280> Darwin's<00:04:35.840> theory<00:04:36.080> of<00:04:36.240> evolution<00:04:37.040> when<00:04:37.280> you<00:04:37.440> mathematize<00:04:37.919> it<00:04:38.320> both<00:04:38.560> tell<00:04:38.800> us<00:04:38.960> that<00:04:39.919> objects

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in<00:04:41.600> space<00:04:41.840> and<00:04:42.080> time<00:04:42.560> cannot<00:04:42.960> be<00:04:43.199> fundamental.

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And<00:04:44.160> so<00:04:44.479> so<00:04:44.720> I<00:04:44.880> I<00:04:45.600> just<00:04:45.840> want<00:04:45.919> to<00:04:46.000> go<00:04:46.160> with<00:04:46.320> the<00:04:46.479> best<00:04:46.639> science<00:04:46.880> that<00:04:47.040> we<00:04:47.120> have<00:04:47.280> right<00:04:47.360> now<00:04:47.520> and<00:04:47.680> what<00:04:47.840> it's<00:04:48.080> telling<00:04:48.240> us<00:04:48.560> about<00:04:48.800> what's<00:04:49.040> fundamental.

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So<00:04:50.320> now<00:04:50.560> I<00:04:50.720> should<00:04:50.880> say<00:04:51.040> that<00:04:51.440> um<00:04:53.040> the<00:04:53.280> claim<00:04:53.520> that<00:04:53.840> evolution<00:04:56.320> tells<00:04:56.639> us<00:04:57.120> that<00:04:57.360> we're<00:04:57.600> not<00:04:57.840> seeing

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reality<00:04:58.560> as<00:04:58.720> it<00:04:58.880> is.<00:04:59.120> Namely,<00:04:59.600> for<00:04:59.680> example,<00:05:00.240> I'm<00:05:00.560> seeing<00:05:00.800> organisms<00:05:02.000> fighting<00:05:02.400> for<00:05:02.720> resources<00:05:03.680> in<00:05:04.000> space<00:05:04.240> and<00:05:04.479> time.

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That's<00:05:05.462> what<00:05:05.804> I'm<00:05:06.145> seeing.<00:05:06.487> Yeah.<00:05:06.829> uh<00:05:07.171> and<00:05:07.512> that's<00:05:07.854> what<00:05:08.196> Darwin<00:05:08.538> assumed<00:05:08.880> as<00:05:09.221> the<00:05:09.563> foundation<00:05:09.905> of<00:05:10.247> his<00:05:10.588> theory<00:05:10.930> is<00:05:11.272> that<00:05:11.614> there's<00:05:11.955> this<00:05:12.297> competition<00:05:12.639> between

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organisms<00:05:13.308> for<00:05:13.656> resources<00:05:14.003> and<00:05:14.351> mates<00:05:14.699> and<00:05:15.047> there's<00:05:15.395> this<00:05:15.743> competition<00:05:16.090> to<00:05:16.438> uh<00:05:16.786> um<00:05:17.134> ultimately<00:05:17.482> the<00:05:17.830> the<00:05:18.177> winner<00:05:18.525> is<00:05:18.873> the<00:05:19.221> one<00:05:19.569> that<00:05:19.917> has<00:05:20.264> the<00:05:20.612> most<00:05:20.960> offspring.

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So<00:05:22.720> that's<00:05:23.120> Darwin's<00:05:23.680> theory<00:05:23.919> and<00:05:24.080> yet<00:05:24.800> I'm<00:05:25.039> claiming<00:05:25.280> that<00:05:25.440> Darwin's<00:05:25.919> theory<00:05:26.240> tells<00:05:26.479> us<00:05:26.639> that<00:05:26.880> that<00:05:27.280> whole<00:05:27.520> story<00:05:28.080> in<00:05:28.160> in<00:05:28.320> some<00:05:28.479> sense<00:05:28.800> cannot<00:05:29.120> be<00:05:29.280> fundamental.

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So<00:05:30.960> that<00:05:31.199> does<00:05:31.360> sound<00:05:31.600> like<00:05:31.759> I'm<00:05:31.919> shooting<00:05:32.160> myself<00:05:32.400> in<00:05:32.560> the<00:05:32.720> foot<00:05:32.960> logically<00:05:33.440> and<00:05:33.759> there<00:05:34.000> are<00:05:34.800> many<00:05:35.120> philosophers<00:05:35.840> some<00:05:36.080> philosophers<00:05:36.560> who've<00:05:36.960> actually<00:05:37.199> published

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saying<00:05:38.240> Hoffman<00:05:38.639> is<00:05:38.800> shooting<00:05:39.039> himself<00:05:39.280> in<00:05:39.440> the<00:05:39.600> foot<00:05:39.759> logically<00:05:40.720> um<00:05:40.880> with<00:05:41.120> this.

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So<00:05:41.840> so<00:05:42.160> I<00:05:42.720> um<00:05:43.199> I<00:05:43.520> am<00:05:43.759> saying<00:05:44.639> that<00:05:44.880> Darwin's<00:05:45.440> theory<00:05:46.080> starts<00:05:46.400> with<00:05:47.520> physical<00:05:47.919> objects<00:05:48.160> in<00:05:48.400> space<00:05:48.639> and<00:05:48.800> time<00:05:49.039> like<00:05:49.360> organisms<00:05:50.000> and

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fighting<00:05:50.800> for<00:05:51.039> resources.<00:05:52.320> And<00:05:53.360> I'm<00:05:53.600> saying<00:05:53.759> that<00:05:54.000> Darwin's<00:05:54.400> theory<00:05:54.639> then<00:05:54.880> goes<00:05:55.199> and<00:05:55.520> shows<00:05:56.080> that<00:05:56.400> those<00:05:56.720> very<00:05:56.960> assumptions<00:05:57.440> cannot<00:05:57.759> be<00:05:57.919> the<00:05:58.160> fundamental<00:05:58.560> nature

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of<00:05:58.960> reality.<00:05:59.280> And<00:05:59.440> that<00:05:59.600> that's<00:05:59.840> no<00:06:00.080> problem.<00:06:00.800> In<00:06:00.960> fact,<00:06:01.199> that<00:06:01.440> shows<00:06:01.680> the<00:06:01.919> power<00:06:02.160> of<00:06:02.400> Darwin's<00:06:02.960> theory.

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We<00:06:04.560> we<00:06:04.880> know<00:06:05.199> that<00:06:05.520> every<00:06:05.840> scientific<00:06:06.400> theory<00:06:07.440> starts<00:06:07.759> with<00:06:08.000> assumptions.

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Yeah.<00:06:10.400> And<00:06:10.639> those<00:06:10.800> assumptions<00:06:11.280> aren't<00:06:11.600> explained.

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They're<00:06:12.319> assumed.<00:06:13.199> And<00:06:13.360> we<00:06:13.600> never<00:06:14.160> we<00:06:14.479> never<00:06:14.800> in<00:06:15.280> science<00:06:15.600> assume<00:06:16.240> that<00:06:16.479> our<00:06:16.720> assumptions<00:06:17.360> are<00:06:17.600> the<00:06:17.840> truth.

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[snorts]<00:06:18.798> At<00:06:19.001> least<00:06:19.205> I<00:06:19.409> hope<00:06:19.613> no<00:06:19.817> one<00:06:20.020> ever<00:06:20.224> assumes<00:06:20.428> that<00:06:20.631> they're<00:06:20.835> the<00:06:21.039> truth.

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We<00:06:21.759> only<00:06:22.560> need<00:06:22.800> to<00:06:23.039> assume<00:06:23.440> that<00:06:23.680> our<00:06:23.840> assumptions<00:06:24.319> are<00:06:24.479> consistent.

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And<00:06:25.520> if<00:06:25.680> our<00:06:25.840> assumptions<00:06:26.240> are<00:06:26.400> consistent,<00:06:27.039> then<00:06:27.280> we<00:06:27.440> can<00:06:27.520> tell<00:06:27.680> a<00:06:27.840> consistent<00:06:28.319> story<00:06:28.720> mathematically<00:06:29.840> given<00:06:30.160> those<00:06:30.400> assumptions.

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But<00:06:31.440> we<00:06:31.600> don't<00:06:31.759> need<00:06:31.840> to<00:06:32.000> assume<00:06:32.800> that<00:06:33.120> they're<00:06:33.360> true.

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And<00:06:33.919> in<00:06:34.160> fact,<00:06:34.880> since<00:06:35.199> we<00:06:35.440> can't<00:06:35.600> prove<00:06:35.840> that<00:06:36.080> they're<00:06:36.319> true,<00:06:36.960> it's<00:06:37.280> not<00:06:37.520> necessarily<00:06:38.080> a<00:06:38.240> wise<00:06:38.560> thing<00:06:38.639> to<00:06:38.880> try<00:06:38.960> to<00:06:39.120> assume<00:06:39.360> that<00:06:39.520> they're<00:06:39.680> true.

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We'll<00:06:40.560> always<00:06:40.800> find<00:06:41.120> deeper<00:06:41.440> assumptions.<00:06:42.560> Hopefully,<00:06:42.880> in<00:06:43.120> science,<00:06:43.360> we'll<00:06:43.520> find<00:06:43.680> deeper<00:06:44.000> assumptions<00:06:44.319> that<00:06:44.560> will<00:06:44.720> explain<00:06:45.360> why<00:06:45.600> your<00:06:45.840> assumptions<00:06:46.319> appear<00:06:46.639> to<00:06:46.800> be

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useful,<00:06:47.440> but<00:06:47.759> may<00:06:48.000> not<00:06:48.160> be<00:06:48.400> true.<00:06:48.720> They're<00:06:48.960> just<00:06:49.120> a<00:06:49.280> useful<00:06:49.600> set<00:06:49.759> of<00:06:49.840> assumptions.

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a<00:06:50.720> perspective<00:06:51.039> on<00:06:51.280> reality<00:06:51.600> but<00:06:51.840> not<00:06:52.000> the<00:06:52.160> truth.

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And<00:06:53.280> and<00:06:53.680> so<00:06:54.720> a<00:06:55.039> good<00:06:55.280> theory<00:06:56.000> in<00:06:56.240> science<00:06:56.639> gives<00:06:56.880> you<00:06:57.039> the<00:06:57.199> tools<00:06:58.400> to<00:06:58.960> find<00:06:59.520> the<00:07:00.160> the<00:07:00.560> scope<00:07:00.880> of<00:07:01.199> explanation

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for<00:07:01.919> for<00:07:02.240> those<00:07:02.479> assumptions.<00:07:03.840> And<00:07:04.639> every<00:07:05.199> good<00:07:05.440> theory<00:07:05.759> will<00:07:06.000> have<00:07:06.240> some<00:07:06.560> scope,<00:07:06.800> but<00:07:06.960> it<00:07:07.120> won't<00:07:07.280> be<00:07:07.440> universal<00:07:07.919> because<00:07:08.240> you<00:07:08.479> can't<00:07:08.639> explain<00:07:08.960> your<00:07:09.120> assumptions.

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So<00:07:09.680> there's<00:07:09.919> something<00:07:10.080> you<00:07:10.319> don't<00:07:10.479> explain.<00:07:11.199> Mhm.

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So,<00:07:11.840> so<00:07:12.319> every<00:07:12.639> good<00:07:12.880> theory<00:07:13.599> will<00:07:14.000> explain<00:07:15.120> some<00:07:15.680> scope<00:07:16.080> of<00:07:16.800> interesting<00:07:17.280> phenomena,<00:07:18.880> but<00:07:19.199> no<00:07:19.440> theory<00:07:19.759> explains

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everything,<00:07:21.280> but<00:07:21.520> a<00:07:21.759> great<00:07:22.000> theory<00:07:22.720> gives<00:07:22.880> you<00:07:23.039> the<00:07:23.199> mathematical<00:07:23.759> tools<00:07:24.319> to<00:07:24.639> actually<00:07:25.039> show<00:07:25.280> you<00:07:25.840> where<00:07:26.160> its<00:07:26.479> explanation<00:07:27.360> stops<00:07:28.000> because<00:07:28.240> we

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know<00:07:28.560> it<00:07:28.800> has<00:07:28.880> to<00:07:29.039> stop.<00:07:29.680> And<00:07:29.919> Darwin's<00:07:30.400> theory<00:07:30.639> is<00:07:30.720> a<00:07:30.880> great<00:07:31.039> theory.

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It<00:07:31.840> tells<00:07:32.000> us<00:07:32.560> that<00:07:34.000> its<00:07:34.240> very<00:07:34.560> foundational<00:07:35.120> assumptions<00:07:35.680> of<00:07:36.319> physical<00:07:36.720> organisms<00:07:37.199> in<00:07:37.440> space<00:07:37.599> and<00:07:37.840> time<00:07:38.240> competing<00:07:38.639> for<00:07:38.880> physical<00:07:39.280> resources<00:07:40.319> cannot

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be<00:07:40.960> fundamental.<00:07:41.680> That<00:07:41.919> very<00:07:42.160> foundational<00:07:42.639> assumption<00:07:43.039> is<00:07:43.280> not<00:07:43.440> the<00:07:43.680> final<00:07:43.919> truth.

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And<00:07:45.039> and<00:07:45.280> it<00:07:45.520> says<00:07:46.000> you<00:07:46.160> need<00:07:46.319> to<00:07:46.400> look<00:07:46.560> for<00:07:46.720> a<00:07:46.880> deeper<00:07:47.199> foundation.

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And<00:07:47.919> so<00:07:48.080> does<00:07:48.240> high<00:07:48.400> energy<00:07:48.720> theoretical<00:07:49.120> physics.<00:07:49.440> So<00:07:49.599> Einstein's<00:07:50.000> theory<00:07:50.240> of<00:07:50.319> gravity<00:07:50.800> together<00:07:51.039> with<00:07:51.280> quantum<00:07:51.599> field<00:07:51.840> theory.

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They<00:07:52.560> also<00:07:52.800> tell<00:07:52.960> us<00:07:53.520> that<00:07:53.919> we're<00:07:54.240> assuming<00:07:55.280> spacetime<00:07:55.840> to<00:07:56.080> begin<00:07:56.160> with.

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And<00:07:56.879> then<00:07:57.039> we<00:07:57.280> prove<00:07:58.080> using<00:07:58.400> the<00:07:58.560> mathematics<00:07:59.039> of<00:07:59.199> spacetime<00:07:59.599> and<00:07:59.759> quantum<00:08:00.080> theory<00:08:00.400> that<00:08:00.800> spacetime<00:08:01.360> itself<00:08:01.919> cannot<00:08:02.319> be<00:08:02.479> fundamental.

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It<00:08:03.199> falls<00:08:03.360> apart<00:08:03.599> at<00:08:03.680> the<00:08:03.840> Planck<00:08:04.080> scale.<00:08:04.560> So<00:08:04.800> this<00:08:04.960> is<00:08:05.120> not<00:08:05.280> shooting<00:08:05.520> yourself<00:08:05.759> in<00:08:06.000> the<00:08:06.080> foot.

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This<00:08:06.720> is<00:08:07.120> the<00:08:07.440> power<00:08:08.720> uh<00:08:09.039> of<00:08:09.360> science.

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Mathematical<00:08:11.520> precision<00:08:12.240> allows<00:08:12.639> you<00:08:12.800> to<00:08:13.360> find<00:08:13.599> out<00:08:13.919> precisely<00:08:14.400> what<00:08:14.639> we<00:08:14.720> knew<00:08:14.960> was<00:08:15.120> true<00:08:15.360> anyway.

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That<00:08:16.000> is<00:08:16.240> that<00:08:16.479> your<00:08:16.720> assumptions<00:08:17.199> are<00:08:17.440> not<00:08:17.599> the<00:08:17.840> final<00:08:18.080> word.

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They're<00:08:18.800> just<00:08:19.120> the<00:08:19.360> next<00:08:19.680> step<00:08:20.000> in<00:08:20.319> our<00:08:20.560> road<00:08:20.879> of<00:08:21.120> discovery.

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So<00:08:23.039> I<00:08:23.360> think<00:08:23.599> before<00:08:24.000> moving<00:08:24.319> on<00:08:24.720> I<00:08:25.039> would<00:08:25.199> love<00:08:25.440> for<00:08:25.599> you<00:08:25.840> to<00:08:26.080> just<00:08:26.639> explain<00:08:27.120> the<00:08:27.360> definition<00:08:27.840> of<00:08:28.080> consciousness<00:08:28.800> in<00:08:28.960> your<00:08:29.199> terms<00:08:29.520> just<00:08:29.680> so<00:08:29.919> everyone<00:08:30.160> has<00:08:30.400> clarity.

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Right.<00:08:32.560> So<00:08:33.039> for<00:08:33.360> me<00:08:34.320> I<00:08:34.640> want<00:08:34.800> to<00:08:34.959> use<00:08:35.200> consciousness<00:08:35.680> in<00:08:37.360> I'll<00:08:37.599> I'll<00:08:37.839> try<00:08:37.919> to<00:08:38.080> be<00:08:38.240> as<00:08:39.200> um<00:08:39.599> deflationary

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as<00:08:40.560> possible<00:08:41.039> just<00:08:41.360> there<00:08:41.599> are<00:08:41.760> experiences<00:08:42.320> like<00:08:42.479> the<00:08:42.640> taste<00:08:42.880> of<00:08:42.959> mint<00:08:43.360> the<00:08:43.440> smell<00:08:43.680> of<00:08:44.000> garlic<00:08:44.880> um<00:08:45.120> feeling<00:08:45.360> of<00:08:45.440> a<00:08:45.600> headache<00:08:45.920> and<00:08:46.080> and<00:08:46.320> so<00:08:46.480> forth.

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And<00:08:49.040> I<00:08:49.279> I<00:08:49.600> don't<00:08:49.760> want<00:08:49.839> to<00:08:49.920> say<00:08:50.000> that<00:08:50.959> I<00:08:51.120> sometimes<00:08:51.440> will<00:08:51.600> say<00:08:51.760> consciousness<00:08:52.160> is<00:08:52.399> fundamental<00:08:52.880> but<00:08:53.279> I'm<00:08:53.519> just<00:08:53.680> saying<00:08:53.839> that<00:08:54.080> I<00:08:54.399> for<00:08:54.640> for<00:08:55.040> the<00:08:55.200> next<00:08:55.440> step<00:08:55.760> in

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scientific<00:08:56.720> explanation<00:08:57.279> I<00:08:57.440> would<00:08:57.600> like<00:08:57.680> to<00:08:57.839> take<00:08:58.160> consciousness<00:08:58.720> as<00:08:59.040> as<00:08:59.279> my<00:08:59.440> fundamental<00:09:00.000> assumption<00:09:00.320> in<00:09:00.560> that<00:09:01.360> what<00:09:01.600> I<00:09:01.760> said<00:09:01.920> earlier<00:09:02.160> was<00:09:02.399> that<00:09:02.560> any<00:09:02.800> assumption

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is<00:09:03.440> just<00:09:03.600> an<00:09:03.839> assumption<00:09:04.240> and<00:09:04.399> we<00:09:04.640> will<00:09:04.800> always<00:09:05.040> look<00:09:05.200> for<00:09:05.360> deeper<00:09:05.680> assumptions.

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Mhm.<00:09:06.720> So<00:09:06.880> when<00:09:07.040> I<00:09:07.200> talk<00:09:07.360> about<00:09:07.519> conscious<00:09:07.920> experiences<00:09:08.480> like<00:09:08.720> the<00:09:08.959> taste<00:09:09.120> of<00:09:09.279> mint,<00:09:09.600> the<00:09:09.760> smell<00:09:09.920> of<00:09:10.080> chocolate<00:09:11.200> um<00:09:11.519> as<00:09:11.920> as<00:09:12.320> fundamental<00:09:13.120> just<00:09:13.360> in<00:09:13.600> in<00:09:13.920> the<00:09:14.080> context

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of<00:09:14.560> of<00:09:14.880> the<00:09:15.040> next<00:09:15.200> step<00:09:15.440> beyond<00:09:15.920> spacetime,<00:09:16.959> I<00:09:17.120> could<00:09:17.279> I<00:09:17.519> could<00:09:17.680> imagine<00:09:18.000> that<00:09:18.240> someone<00:09:18.640> for<00:09:18.720> example<00:09:19.040> in<00:09:19.200> a<00:09:19.360> spiritual<00:09:19.839> tradition<00:09:20.240> would<00:09:20.480> say<00:09:21.200> uh<00:09:22.640> conscious

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experiences<00:09:23.920> are<00:09:24.240> great.<00:09:24.720> They<00:09:24.959> are<00:09:25.120> deeper<00:09:25.519> than<00:09:25.760> spacetime.

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But<00:09:26.720> there<00:09:26.880> are<00:09:27.200> layers<00:09:27.360> of<00:09:27.600> consciousness<00:09:28.000> that<00:09:28.240> go<00:09:28.399> beyond<00:09:28.800> conscious<00:09:29.279> experiences<00:09:29.839> like<00:09:30.080> silence.

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So<00:09:31.600> just<00:09:31.920> being<00:09:32.560> present<00:09:33.040> and<00:09:33.360> aware<00:09:34.240> without<00:09:34.640> any<00:09:35.519> experience<00:09:36.000> whatsoever<00:09:36.720> would<00:09:36.959> be<00:09:37.120> another<00:09:37.440> way<00:09:37.600> of<00:09:37.920> going<00:09:38.160> perhaps<00:09:38.560> deeper<00:09:38.880> than<00:09:39.120> what

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I'm<00:09:39.440> talking<00:09:39.600> about<00:09:39.760> which<00:09:39.920> is<00:09:40.080> conscious<00:09:40.480> experiences.<00:09:41.760> So<00:09:42.160> so<00:09:42.480> I'm<00:09:42.880> admitting<00:09:43.279> right<00:09:43.440> up<00:09:43.680> front<00:09:43.839> that<00:09:44.000> when<00:09:44.160> I<00:09:44.320> say<00:09:44.480> conscious<00:09:45.200> experiences<00:09:46.080> are<00:09:46.320> going<00:09:46.399> to<00:09:46.480> be<00:09:46.560> fundamental

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in<00:09:47.120> my<00:09:47.279> theory<00:09:47.839> that<00:09:48.240> there<00:09:48.560> are<00:09:48.720> deeper<00:09:49.040> levels<00:09:49.680> and<00:09:49.920> I<00:09:50.080> don't<00:09:50.240> yet<00:09:50.480> know<00:09:50.640> how<00:09:50.800> to<00:09:51.040> mathematize<00:09:51.600> them.

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So,<00:09:52.075> I'm<00:09:52.310> going<00:09:52.546> to<00:09:52.781> work<00:09:53.017> with<00:09:53.253> what<00:09:53.488> I<00:09:53.724> do<00:09:53.960> know<00:09:54.195> how<00:09:54.431> to<00:09:54.666> mathematize<00:09:54.902> and<00:09:55.138> and<00:09:55.373> and<00:09:55.609> do<00:09:55.844> some<00:09:56.080> science.

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At<00:09:56.823> some<00:09:57.167> point,<00:09:57.510> once<00:09:57.853> we've<00:09:58.197> really<00:09:58.540> understood<00:09:58.883> what<00:09:59.227> conscious<00:09:59.570> experiences<00:09:59.913> can<00:10:00.257> do<00:10:00.600> for<00:10:00.943> us,<00:10:01.287> then<00:10:01.630> we<00:10:01.973> might<00:10:02.317> be<00:10:02.660> able<00:10:03.003> to<00:10:03.347> step<00:10:03.690> back<00:10:04.033> um<00:10:04.377> and<00:10:04.720> look

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at<00:10:05.200> consciousness<00:10:05.839> at<00:10:06.080> at<00:10:06.320> an<00:10:06.560> even<00:10:06.880> deeper<00:10:07.279> level<00:10:07.600> beyond<00:10:08.080> experiences.

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But<00:10:09.360> at<00:10:09.600> some<00:10:09.680> point,<00:10:09.920> even<00:10:10.160> the<00:10:10.560> spiritual<00:10:10.959> traditions<00:10:11.360> tell<00:10:11.519> us<00:10:11.680> that<00:10:12.160> um<00:10:13.760> the<00:10:14.000> deepest<00:10:14.320> things<00:10:14.560> can<00:10:14.800> never<00:10:15.040> be<00:10:15.200> discussed<00:10:15.600> at<00:10:15.760> all.

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In<00:10:16.720> some<00:10:16.880> sense,<00:10:17.120> silence<00:10:17.519> is<00:10:17.680> going<00:10:17.760> to<00:10:17.839> be<00:10:17.920> the<00:10:18.160> final<00:10:18.800> the<00:10:19.120> final<00:10:19.360> word.

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And<00:10:19.920> in<00:10:20.240> which<00:10:20.480> case<00:10:21.040> silence<00:10:21.600> means<00:10:22.000> silence<00:10:22.399> for<00:10:22.640> science<00:10:22.959> as<00:10:23.200> well.

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Um<00:10:25.360> Donald,<00:10:25.760> you<00:10:25.839> know,<00:10:26.160> I<00:10:26.399> wanted<00:10:26.560> to<00:10:26.720> talk<00:10:26.880> about<00:10:27.040> this<00:10:27.279> one<00:10:27.440> part<00:10:27.600> of<00:10:27.760> your<00:10:27.920> theory.

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It<00:10:28.560> really<00:10:28.800> fascinates<00:10:29.279> me.<00:10:30.000> It's<00:10:30.240> that<00:10:30.480> if<00:10:30.880> space<00:10:31.279> isn't<00:10:31.839> actual<00:10:32.399> fundamental<00:10:33.040> reality,<00:10:34.399> does<00:10:34.640> that<00:10:34.800> mean<00:10:35.200> things<00:10:35.440> like<00:10:35.680> distance<00:10:36.079> and<00:10:36.320> separation

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aren't<00:10:37.519> as<00:10:37.839> real<00:10:38.240> as<00:10:38.399> we<00:10:38.640> think?<00:10:38.880> And<00:10:39.040> specifically,<00:10:39.680> what<00:10:39.920> does<00:10:40.240> all<00:10:40.480> that<00:10:40.720> mean<00:10:40.880> for<00:10:41.519> ideas<00:10:42.000> such<00:10:42.160> as<00:10:42.480> time<00:10:42.800> travel<00:10:43.200> or<00:10:43.680> parallel<00:10:44.240> universes?

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That's<00:10:45.360> a<00:10:45.600> great<00:10:45.760> question<00:10:46.079> because<00:10:46.480> we<00:10:46.800> do<00:10:47.040> think<00:10:47.200> of<00:10:47.600> space<00:10:47.920> and<00:10:48.160> time<00:10:48.399> as<00:10:48.800> fundamental<00:10:50.480> to<00:10:51.120> how<00:10:51.360> we<00:10:51.600> can<00:10:51.760> even<00:10:52.079> move<00:10:52.480> or<00:10:52.880> perceive<00:10:53.279> or

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think.<00:10:54.640> And<00:10:55.760> what<00:10:56.079> this<00:10:56.320> approach<00:10:56.640> is<00:10:56.880> saying<00:10:57.200> is<00:10:57.519> that<00:10:58.000> no,<00:10:58.320> that's<00:10:58.720> an<00:10:58.959> artifact<00:10:59.680> of<00:11:01.200> the<00:11:01.440> way<00:11:01.680> our

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perceptions<00:11:02.560> are<00:11:02.800> engineered<00:11:03.279> to<00:11:03.600> create<00:11:03.839> this<00:11:04.720> illusion<00:11:04.959> of<00:11:05.200> space<00:11:05.440> and<00:11:05.680> time.

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So<00:11:06.079> I<00:11:06.160> I<00:11:06.480> think<00:11:06.560> of<00:11:06.720> space<00:11:06.880> and<00:11:07.040> time<00:11:07.200> as<00:11:07.360> just<00:11:07.519> a<00:11:07.600> headset<00:11:08.000> and<00:11:08.240> all<00:11:08.399> the<00:11:08.560> objects<00:11:08.800> in<00:11:08.959> it<00:11:09.200> like<00:11:09.440> our<00:11:09.680> bodies<00:11:10.000> are<00:11:10.399> are<00:11:10.480> are<00:11:10.800> are<00:11:11.519> merely<00:11:12.079> uh

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rendered<00:11:15.680> inside<00:11:16.079> this<00:11:16.240> headset.<00:11:16.640> So<00:11:16.800> they're<00:11:17.600> so<00:11:17.680> so<00:11:18.079> they're<00:11:18.320> not<00:11:18.560> a<00:11:18.800> deep<00:11:19.040> reality.

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They're<00:11:19.680> just<00:11:20.000> symbols<00:11:20.320> or<00:11:20.560> artifacts<00:11:21.040> inside<00:11:21.360> of<00:11:21.440> a<00:11:21.600> headset.

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And

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yeah,<00:11:26.480> so<00:11:26.800> so<00:11:27.040> I<00:11:27.200> I<00:11:27.440> guess<00:11:27.519> I'll<00:11:27.760> just<00:11:27.920> stop<00:11:28.079> right<00:11:28.240> there.

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Yeah.<00:11:28.640> Yeah.<00:11:30.240> Could<00:11:30.480> you<00:11:30.720> you<00:11:31.040> used<00:11:31.200> the<00:11:31.440> word<00:11:31.600> interface<00:11:32.079> a<00:11:32.240> little<00:11:32.399> bit<00:11:32.480> earlier.

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Could<00:11:33.040> you<00:11:33.120> elaborate<00:11:33.760> a<00:11:33.920> little<00:11:34.000> bit<00:11:34.160> more<00:11:34.320> on<00:11:34.480> what<00:11:34.720> you<00:11:34.880> mean<00:11:35.040> by<00:11:35.200> that?

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Right.<00:11:36.800> So,<00:11:37.680> uh<00:11:38.320> I<00:11:38.640> would<00:11:38.800> say<00:11:39.040> that<00:11:39.680> um<00:11:40.480> space<00:11:40.720> and<00:11:40.880> time<00:11:41.040> are<00:11:41.279> interface<00:11:41.680> in<00:11:41.839> the<00:11:42.000> sense<00:11:42.079> that<00:11:42.640> just<00:11:43.040> like<00:11:43.120> like<00:11:43.360> in<00:11:43.519> the<00:11:43.680> last<00:11:43.839> question<00:11:44.079> where<00:11:44.480> we

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are<00:11:45.360> distance<00:11:45.760> and<00:11:46.000> time<00:11:46.480> real?<00:11:47.760> No,<00:11:48.079> they're<00:11:48.399> just<00:11:49.040> useful<00:11:49.519> fictions<00:11:50.160> in<00:11:50.480> the<00:11:50.640> headset.

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Um<00:11:52.640> and<00:11:52.800> and<00:11:52.959> and<00:11:53.519> so<00:11:54.880> we<00:11:56.560> you<00:11:56.800> can<00:11:56.959> think<00:11:57.120> about<00:11:57.279> the<00:11:57.519> analogy<00:11:58.000> of<00:11:58.160> there's<00:11:58.560> some<00:11:58.800> supercomputer<00:11:59.519> somewhere,<00:11:59.920> for

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example,<00:12:00.560> running<00:12:00.800> the<00:12:00.959> game,<00:12:01.120> the<00:12:01.440> software,<00:12:02.320> and<00:12:03.839> all<00:12:04.000> the<00:12:04.160> distances<00:12:04.560> you're<00:12:04.800> seeing<00:12:04.959> inside<00:12:05.200> the<00:12:05.440> headset<00:12:06.160> are<00:12:06.320> are<00:12:06.639> just<00:12:07.600> bits<00:12:08.000> inside

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of<00:12:08.399> a<00:12:08.639> computer<00:12:08.880> somewhere<00:12:09.279> in<00:12:09.440> this<00:12:09.600> in<00:12:09.839> this<00:12:10.160> idea.

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So<00:12:10.639> that<00:12:10.880> what<00:12:11.040> you're<00:12:11.200> seeing<00:12:11.360> inside<00:12:11.600> the<00:12:11.760> headset<00:12:12.160> is<00:12:12.480> just<00:12:13.040> a<00:12:13.519> a<00:12:13.839> VR<00:12:14.720> um<00:12:15.279> representation<00:12:15.920> of<00:12:16.160> something<00:12:16.320> that's<00:12:16.560> far<00:12:16.800> more<00:12:17.040> abstract,<00:12:18.240> right?

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And<00:12:19.760> you<00:12:19.920> know,<00:12:20.000> I<00:12:20.240> heard<00:12:20.399> you<00:12:20.639> give<00:12:20.800> this<00:12:21.120> fascinating<00:12:21.680> example<00:12:22.399> about<00:12:22.720> beetles<00:12:23.200> in<00:12:23.360> Australia<00:12:24.240> choosing<00:12:24.959> beer<00:12:25.279> bottles<00:12:25.760> over<00:12:26.079> actual<00:12:26.480> mates,<00:12:27.120> right?

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And<00:12:27.680> your<00:12:27.920> point<00:12:28.079> was<00:12:28.320> that<00:12:28.560> evolution<00:12:29.279> doesn't<00:12:29.680> teach<00:12:30.079> organisms<00:12:30.800> what's<00:12:31.200> true.

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So<00:12:32.240> do<00:12:32.399> you<00:12:32.639> think<00:12:33.040> humans<00:12:33.519> are<00:12:33.760> walking<00:12:34.079> around<00:12:34.399> in<00:12:34.720> a<00:12:34.880> similar<00:12:35.600> way<00:12:36.160> believing<00:12:36.480> that<00:12:37.519> only<00:12:37.839> what<00:12:38.079> we<00:12:38.320> see,<00:12:38.560> hear,<00:12:38.800> and<00:12:39.040> touch<00:12:39.360> is<00:12:39.680> the<00:12:40.000> ultimate

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reality?<00:12:41.600> Well,<00:12:42.560> most<00:12:42.800> of<00:12:42.959> us<00:12:43.120> do<00:12:43.360> think<00:12:43.600> we're<00:12:43.839> seeing<00:12:44.240> reality<00:12:44.720> as<00:12:44.959> it<00:12:45.200> is.

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And<00:12:47.360> much<00:12:47.600> of<00:12:47.839> science<00:12:48.320> is<00:12:48.639> physicalist<00:12:49.600> in<00:12:49.839> the<00:12:50.079> sense<00:12:50.240> that<00:12:50.399> we,<00:12:51.360> you<00:12:51.519> know,<00:12:51.680> in<00:12:51.839> in<00:12:52.079> neuroscience,<00:12:52.720> for<00:12:52.800> example,<00:12:53.200> my<00:12:53.360> my<00:12:53.680> colleagues<00:12:54.000> who<00:12:54.160> are

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studying<00:12:54.560> consciousness<00:12:55.120> are<00:12:55.360> assuming<00:12:55.680> that<00:12:55.920> neurons<00:12:56.639> in<00:12:56.959> space<00:12:57.200> and<00:12:57.360> time<00:12:57.680> are<00:12:57.920> real<00:12:58.560> and<00:12:58.800> that<00:12:59.040> they<00:12:59.279> somehow<00:12:59.760> are<00:13:00.079> creating<00:13:01.040> all<00:13:01.519> the<00:13:01.760> experiences<00:13:02.639> that

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we<00:13:03.279> we<00:13:03.600> have.<00:13:04.240> And<00:13:04.480> so<00:13:05.360> they're<00:13:05.600> they're<00:13:06.160> they<00:13:06.639> are<00:13:06.800> buying<00:13:07.200> into<00:13:08.959> physical<00:13:09.360> objects<00:13:09.839> being<00:13:10.160> real.

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And<00:13:11.040> they're<00:13:11.200> saying<00:13:11.360> that<00:13:11.600> consciousness<00:13:12.079> is<00:13:12.240> arising<00:13:12.639> from<00:13:12.880> those<00:13:13.120> physical<00:13:13.519> objects.

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And<00:13:15.040> and<00:13:15.440> so<00:13:15.920> the<00:13:16.160> very<00:13:16.399> best<00:13:16.560> and<00:13:16.720> brightest<00:13:17.120> among<00:13:17.360> us,<00:13:17.519> some<00:13:17.680> of<00:13:17.760> my<00:13:17.839> my<00:13:18.160> colleagues<00:13:18.480> are<00:13:19.120> absolutely<00:13:19.600> brilliant,<00:13:20.320> are<00:13:20.639> are<00:13:21.200> doing<00:13:21.440> that.<00:13:21.600> I<00:13:21.760> would<00:13:21.839> say<00:13:22.000> in<00:13:22.160> fact<00:13:22.320> 99%

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of<00:13:23.247> my<00:13:23.535> colleagues<00:13:23.823> who<00:13:24.111> are<00:13:24.399> studying<00:13:24.687> consciousness<00:13:24.975> are<00:13:25.263> physicists,<00:13:25.551> so<00:13:25.839> they<00:13:26.127> are<00:13:26.415> assuming<00:13:26.704> that<00:13:26.992> the<00:13:27.280> brain<00:13:27.568> is<00:13:27.856> real<00:13:28.144> uh<00:13:28.432> in<00:13:28.720> some<00:13:29.008> sense<00:13:29.296> at<00:13:29.584> least<00:13:29.872> real<00:13:30.160> for

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for<00:13:30.880> the<00:13:31.040> starting<00:13:31.360> point<00:13:31.519> of<00:13:31.680> their<00:13:31.839> of<00:13:32.079> their<00:13:32.240> theories<00:13:33.519> uh<00:13:34.000> and<00:13:35.279> so<00:13:36.399> evolution

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yeah<00:13:39.279> you<00:13:39.440> can<00:13:39.600> say<00:13:39.760> that<00:13:40.079> from<00:13:40.399> from<00:13:40.720> Darwin's<00:13:41.279> point<00:13:41.440> of<00:13:41.600> view.<00:13:42.480> Um,<00:13:44.160> so<00:13:44.320> there's<00:13:44.560> there's<00:13:44.880> two<00:13:45.040> levels<00:13:45.279> to<00:13:45.519> talk<00:13:45.680> to<00:13:46.000> sort<00:13:46.160> of<00:13:46.240> answer<00:13:46.480> your<00:13:46.639> question.

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One<00:13:47.040> is<00:13:47.200> that<00:13:47.839> um<00:13:48.480> when<00:13:48.639> I<00:13:48.800> talk<00:13:48.959> about<00:13:49.040> a<00:13:49.200> VR<00:13:49.519> headset,<00:13:50.000> right,<00:13:50.160> it's<00:13:50.320> it's<00:13:51.600> it's<00:13:52.000> clearly<00:13:52.240> an<00:13:52.560> illusion<00:13:52.800> because<00:13:52.959> it's<00:13:53.120> just<00:13:53.279> a<00:13:53.360> VR<00:13:53.680> headset<00:13:54.079> and<00:13:54.240> and<00:13:54.800> there's<00:13:55.519> um

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in<00:13:56.160> this<00:13:56.320> analogy,<00:13:56.800> there's<00:13:56.959> some<00:13:57.120> supercomputer<00:13:57.680> that<00:13:57.839> you're<00:13:58.000> not<00:13:58.160> even<00:13:58.399> seeing.

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Um,<00:13:59.440> and<00:13:59.680> you're<00:13:59.839> not<00:14:00.000> even<00:14:00.160> seeing<00:14:00.240> the<00:14:00.399> bits<00:14:00.560> that<00:14:00.720> you're<00:14:00.959> really<00:14:01.120> toggling<00:14:01.519> in<00:14:01.760> that<00:14:01.920> analogy.

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But<00:14:03.040> your<00:14:03.279> question<00:14:03.440> was<00:14:03.600> also<00:14:03.760> about<00:14:04.079> what<00:14:04.399> Darwin's<00:14:05.199> theory<00:14:06.000> is<00:14:06.399> is<00:14:06.800> saying<00:14:07.040> about<00:14:07.199> it.

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And<00:14:07.839> and<00:14:08.079> Darwin's<00:14:08.639> theory<00:14:09.279> does<00:14:10.160> entail<00:14:12.320> that<00:14:13.360> well<00:14:13.600> what<00:14:13.839> it<00:14:14.000> says<00:14:14.240> explicitly<00:14:15.440> is<00:14:15.680> that

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our<00:14:16.399> sensory<00:14:16.880> systems<00:14:17.920> are<00:14:18.240> shaped<00:14:19.760> to<00:14:20.079> guide<00:14:20.480> adaptive<00:14:21.120> behavior.

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That's<00:14:23.199> okay<00:14:24.160> being<00:14:24.399> very<00:14:24.639> precise<00:14:25.040> now.

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So<00:14:25.839> Darwin's<00:14:26.399> theory<00:14:26.639> and<00:14:26.880> evolutionary<00:14:27.440> game<00:14:27.680> theory<00:14:28.240> when<00:14:28.480> you<00:14:28.639> look<00:14:28.720> at<00:14:28.880> these<00:14:29.120> things<00:14:29.360> very<00:14:29.600> precisely<00:14:30.480> our<00:14:30.800> senses<00:14:31.199> have<00:14:31.360> been<00:14:31.519> shaped<00:14:32.240> to<00:14:32.560> guide<00:14:32.880> adaptive<00:14:33.440> behavior.

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Period.<00:14:34.959> Now<00:14:35.440> most<00:14:35.760> of<00:14:35.920> my<00:14:36.639> colleagues<00:14:38.079> who<00:14:38.399> are<00:14:38.639> brilliant<00:14:39.199> and<00:14:39.440> who<00:14:39.680> know<00:14:39.920> evolutionary<00:14:40.480> theory<00:14:41.920> not<00:14:42.160> all

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of<00:14:42.399> them<00:14:43.040> but<00:14:43.279> most<00:14:43.519> of<00:14:43.680> them<00:14:44.079> would<00:14:44.399> say<00:14:45.120> that<00:14:45.839> means<00:14:46.720> that<00:14:46.959> our<00:14:47.279> sensory<00:14:47.680> systems<00:14:48.160> because<00:14:48.399> they're<00:14:48.720> shaped<00:14:49.279> to<00:14:50.240> guide<00:14:50.560> adaptive

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behavior<00:14:51.680> they've<00:14:52.000> really<00:14:52.240> been<00:14:52.399> shaped<00:14:52.639> to<00:14:52.800> show<00:14:52.959> us<00:14:53.120> the<00:14:53.360> truth<00:14:53.920> about<00:14:54.240> what's<00:14:54.480> out<00:14:54.639> there<00:14:54.959> because<00:14:55.199> after<00:14:55.519> all<00:14:56.480> how<00:14:56.720> could<00:14:56.880> you<00:14:57.040> be<00:14:57.120> more<00:14:57.279> fit<00:14:57.519> than<00:14:57.680> if<00:14:57.839> you<00:14:57.920> know

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what's<00:14:58.240> really<00:14:58.480> out<00:14:58.639> there.<00:14:58.959> So<00:14:59.279> surely<00:14:59.519> you<00:14:59.680> need<00:14:59.839> to<00:14:59.920> know<00:15:00.079> the<00:15:00.240> truth<00:15:00.480> to<00:15:00.880> be<00:15:01.120> fit.

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Now<00:15:02.160> there<00:15:02.399> are<00:15:02.480> others<00:15:03.040> uh<00:15:03.360> some<00:15:03.600> of<00:15:03.680> my<00:15:03.920> brilliant<00:15:04.240> colleagues<00:15:04.560> like<00:15:04.800> Steven<00:15:05.040> Pinker<00:15:05.600> who<00:15:06.079> um<00:15:06.240> have<00:15:06.480> published<00:15:06.800> papers<00:15:07.120> which<00:15:07.279> which<00:15:07.680> say<00:15:08.480> things<00:15:08.720> to<00:15:08.959> the<00:15:09.040> contrary

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right.<00:15:09.680> So<00:15:09.839> Steven<00:15:10.079> Pinker<00:15:10.399> is<00:15:10.560> very<00:15:10.720> very<00:15:10.959> clear<00:15:11.519> in<00:15:11.760> a<00:15:11.920> paper<00:15:12.720> titled<00:15:13.120> so<00:15:13.279> how<00:15:13.519> does<00:15:13.600> the<00:15:13.760> mind<00:15:14.000> work?

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They<00:15:14.480> published<00:15:14.959> around<00:15:15.360> 2005<00:15:16.399> or<00:15:16.639> so<00:15:17.760> in<00:15:18.000> rep<00:15:18.320> in<00:15:18.560> reply<00:15:18.800> to<00:15:18.959> Jerry<00:15:19.199> Fodor<00:15:19.680> he<00:15:20.000> he<00:15:20.720> makes<00:15:21.199> several<00:15:21.600> good<00:15:21.760> points<00:15:22.079> about<00:15:22.399> why

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evolution<00:15:24.720> um<00:15:25.040> could<00:15:25.519> easily<00:15:26.639> shape<00:15:27.040> sensory<00:15:27.440> systems<00:15:27.760> so<00:15:27.920> they're<00:15:28.160> not<00:15:28.240> seeing<00:15:28.399> the<00:15:28.560> truth.

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And<00:15:30.240> so<00:15:30.399> I<00:15:30.560> agree<00:15:30.800> with<00:15:30.959> Pinker<00:15:32.079> on<00:15:32.320> that.

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And<00:15:33.279> I<00:15:33.440> I<00:15:33.839> take<00:15:34.000> it<00:15:34.160> just<00:15:34.399> one<00:15:34.639> step<00:15:35.040> further<00:15:35.440> where<00:15:35.760> Steve<00:15:36.720> um<00:15:37.600> sort<00:15:37.839> of<00:15:38.000> stopped<00:15:38.320> at<00:15:38.560> everyday<00:15:39.040> physical<00:15:39.360> objects.

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He<00:15:39.920> said<00:15:40.320> there<00:15:40.560> are<00:15:40.639> all<00:15:40.720> these<00:15:40.959> cases<00:15:41.199> where<00:15:41.440> we're<00:15:41.600> probably<00:15:41.760> not<00:15:41.920> seeing<00:15:42.160> reality<00:15:42.399> as<00:15:42.560> it<00:15:42.720> is,<00:15:42.800> but<00:15:43.040> probably<00:15:43.279> in<00:15:43.519> everyday<00:15:44.000> physical<00:15:44.240> objects<00:15:44.639> we<00:15:44.800> are.

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And<00:15:46.240> there<00:15:46.480> I<00:15:47.120> um<00:15:47.519> Pinker<00:15:47.839> is<00:15:48.000> a<00:15:48.079> friend<00:15:48.240> and<00:15:48.399> he's<00:15:48.639> brilliant<00:15:48.959> and<00:15:49.440> um<00:15:49.600> I'd<00:15:49.839> love<00:15:49.920> to<00:15:50.240> discuss<00:15:50.480> this<00:15:50.639> with<00:15:50.800> him,<00:15:50.880> but<00:15:51.120> there<00:15:51.279> I<00:15:51.519> politely<00:15:52.000> disagree.

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I<00:15:52.639> think<00:15:52.720> that<00:15:53.120> in<00:15:53.360> fact<00:15:53.519> if<00:15:53.680> you<00:15:53.759> look<00:15:53.920> at<00:15:54.000> the<00:15:54.160> mathematics<00:15:54.560> of<00:15:54.720> evolutionary<00:15:55.279> game<00:15:55.440> theory<00:15:56.160> even<00:15:56.480> everyday<00:15:56.880> physical<00:15:57.199> objects<00:15:57.519> like<00:15:57.759> this<00:15:58.000> cup<00:15:58.720> are<00:15:59.040> not<00:15:59.680> excluded.

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They<00:16:00.800> also<00:16:01.199> are<00:16:01.440> part<00:16:01.680> of<00:16:01.920> the<00:16:02.320> illusion.

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So<00:16:03.120> the<00:16:03.360> idea<00:16:03.600> is<00:16:04.639> evolution<00:16:05.199> shapes<00:16:05.519> sensory<00:16:05.920> systems<00:16:06.800> to<00:16:07.040> guide<00:16:07.279> adaptive<00:16:07.839> behavior<00:16:08.880> period<00:16:10.079> not<00:16:10.399> to<00:16:10.639> see<00:16:10.800> the<00:16:11.040> truth.

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And<00:16:12.160> it's<00:16:12.560> almost<00:16:12.880> surely<00:16:13.279> the<00:16:13.519> case<00:16:14.240> that<00:16:14.560> seeing<00:16:14.880> the<00:16:15.040> truth<00:16:16.000> will<00:16:16.320> not<00:16:16.800> allow<00:16:17.199> you<00:16:18.079> to<00:16:18.320> be<00:16:18.480> mo<00:16:18.800> the<00:16:18.959> more<00:16:19.199> fit<00:16:20.000> in

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almost<00:16:20.480> every<00:16:20.720> circumstance.<00:16:21.279> So<00:16:21.519> seeing<00:16:21.839> the<00:16:22.000> truth<00:16:22.480> does<00:16:22.720> not<00:16:22.880> make<00:16:23.040> you<00:16:23.199> more<00:16:23.440> fit.

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It<00:16:24.000> makes<00:16:24.160> you<00:16:24.320> less<00:16:24.959> fit.<00:16:25.279> And<00:16:25.440> just<00:16:25.600> to<00:16:25.759> give<00:16:25.839> you<00:16:26.240> an<00:16:26.560> a<00:16:26.880> feeling<00:16:27.199> for<00:16:27.360> that<00:16:27.600> intuitively,<00:16:28.880> imagine<00:16:29.199> you're<00:16:29.360> playing<00:16:29.519> a<00:16:29.680> game<00:16:29.839> like<00:16:30.240> like<00:16:30.480> Grand<00:16:31.120> Theft<00:16:31.360> Auto.

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Yeah.<00:16:32.399> And<00:16:32.959> you<00:16:33.199> want<00:16:33.279> to<00:16:33.360> play<00:16:33.519> the<00:16:33.600> game<00:16:33.759> well<00:16:34.000> to<00:16:34.240> win<00:16:34.399> the<00:16:34.639> game,<00:16:34.959> right?

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So<00:16:35.920> now<00:16:36.079> I'm<00:16:36.240> thinking<00:16:36.399> about<00:16:36.560> evolution<00:16:36.880> as<00:16:37.120> the<00:16:37.199> game<00:16:37.360> of<00:16:37.519> life.

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And<00:16:38.000> you<00:16:38.240> win<00:16:38.399> the<00:16:38.560> game<00:16:38.720> by<00:16:38.880> having<00:16:39.040> the<00:16:39.199> most<00:16:39.360> offspring,<00:16:39.759> right?

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That's<00:16:40.000> that's<00:16:40.240> how<00:16:40.399> you<00:16:40.480> get<00:16:40.560> the<00:16:40.720> most<00:16:40.880> points<00:16:41.120> in<00:16:41.360> evolutionary<00:16:41.920> game.

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So<00:16:43.199> So<00:16:43.440> if<00:16:43.759> you're<00:16:43.920> playing<00:16:44.160> Grand<00:16:44.399> Theft<00:16:44.639> Auto,<00:16:45.120> you<00:16:45.360> want<00:16:45.519> to<00:16:45.680> win<00:16:46.160> that<00:16:46.480> game.

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Now<00:16:47.920> you're<00:16:48.240> not<00:16:48.399> seeing<00:16:48.560> the<00:16:48.720> truth.

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what<00:16:49.120> you're<00:16:49.440> you<00:16:49.680> mean<00:16:49.759> the<00:16:50.000> truth.<00:16:50.720> For<00:16:50.800> example,<00:16:51.120> if<00:16:51.279> I'm<00:16:51.440> playing<00:16:51.680> Grand<00:16:51.839> Theft<00:16:52.000> Auto,<00:16:52.079> I<00:16:52.399> see<00:16:52.480> a<00:16:52.560> red<00:16:52.720> Ferrari<00:16:53.120> over<00:16:53.360> there<00:16:53.519> and<00:16:53.920> I'm<00:16:54.399> trying<00:16:54.560> to<00:16:54.720> beat<00:16:54.880> that<00:16:55.040> red

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Ferrari.<00:16:56.560> Um<00:16:57.199> it's<00:16:57.519> useful<00:16:57.839> for<00:16:58.079> me<00:16:58.160> to<00:16:58.399> think<00:16:58.480> about<00:16:58.639> a<00:16:58.800> red<00:16:58.959> Ferrari<00:16:59.279> and<00:16:59.519> to<00:16:59.680> think<00:16:59.759> about<00:16:59.920> my<00:17:00.240> steering<00:17:00.560> wheel<00:17:00.800> and<00:17:00.959> and<00:17:01.440> a<00:17:01.680> gas<00:17:01.920> pedal<00:17:02.240> and<00:17:02.480> to<00:17:02.720> play<00:17:02.880> the<00:17:03.120> game.

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But<00:17:03.920> if<00:17:04.079> I<00:17:04.240> looked<00:17:04.400> in<00:17:04.559> the<00:17:04.720> supercomputer<00:17:05.280> that's<00:17:05.520> running<00:17:05.760> this,<00:17:06.240> there<00:17:06.400> is<00:17:06.480> no<00:17:06.640> red<00:17:06.880> Ferrari<00:17:07.280> in<00:17:07.439> there.

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There's<00:17:08.160> no<00:17:08.480> wheel.<00:17:08.880> There's<00:17:09.039> no<00:17:09.280> gas<00:17:09.520> pedal.

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There's<00:17:10.400> I'm<00:17:10.640> toggling<00:17:11.039> bits,<00:17:11.600> millions<00:17:12.000> of<00:17:12.079> bits<00:17:12.400> per<00:17:12.640> second<00:17:12.880> in<00:17:13.120> a<00:17:13.360> precise<00:17:14.000> order.

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That's<00:17:14.959> what<00:17:15.199> I'm<00:17:15.360> really<00:17:15.600> doing<00:17:15.839> to<00:17:16.079> play<00:17:16.240> the<00:17:16.480> game.

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Now,<00:17:18.000> in<00:17:18.240> principle,<00:17:18.799> I<00:17:19.120> could<00:17:19.280> be<00:17:19.360> the<00:17:19.600> geek<00:17:21.039> that's<00:17:21.360> toggling<00:17:21.760> those<00:17:22.000> things<00:17:22.240> really,<00:17:22.480> really<00:17:22.720> fast<00:17:22.880> and<00:17:23.120> trying<00:17:23.280> to<00:17:23.360> play<00:17:23.520> the<00:17:23.679> game<00:17:23.839> that<00:17:24.000> way.

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And<00:17:24.480> that<00:17:24.559> would<00:17:24.720> be<00:17:24.799> seeing<00:17:25.039> the<00:17:25.199> truth,<00:17:26.400> but<00:17:26.640> I<00:17:26.880> probably<00:17:27.120> wouldn't<00:17:27.360> win<00:17:27.520> the<00:17:27.760> game.

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Seeing<00:17:28.799> the<00:17:29.039> truth,<00:17:29.840> you<00:17:30.160> just<00:17:30.320> be<00:17:30.480> too<00:17:30.720> slow<00:17:30.880> at<00:17:31.120> toggling<00:17:31.440> those<00:17:31.679> bits<00:17:32.000> to<00:17:32.160> to<00:17:32.559> win<00:17:32.720> the<00:17:32.880> game.

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And<00:17:33.360> that's<00:17:33.600> sort<00:17:33.679> of<00:17:33.760> the<00:17:33.919> the<00:17:34.480> idea<00:17:34.799> here.

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If<00:17:35.360> you<00:17:35.520> want<00:17:35.679> to<00:17:36.160> play<00:17:36.480> and<00:17:36.799> win,<00:17:37.840> you<00:17:38.080> need<00:17:38.240> to<00:17:38.480> have<00:17:38.720> a<00:17:38.960> dumbed<00:17:39.360> down<00:17:40.000> user<00:17:40.480> interface,<00:17:40.960> a<00:17:41.200> headset<00:17:41.840> that<00:17:42.160> lets<00:17:42.400> you<00:17:43.440> play

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with<00:17:43.840> reality<00:17:44.240> without<00:17:44.640> knowing<00:17:44.880> exactly<00:17:45.280> how<00:17:45.440> you're<00:17:45.679> playing<00:17:45.840> with<00:17:46.080> reality.

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You<00:17:47.039> you<00:17:47.200> so<00:17:47.440> you're<00:17:47.600> controlling<00:17:47.840> the<00:17:48.000> reality<00:17:48.720> and<00:17:48.880> you're<00:17:49.120> playing<00:17:49.280> the<00:17:49.520> game<00:17:49.679> of<00:17:49.840> life.

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And<00:17:51.200> there's<00:17:51.520> a<00:17:51.679> lot<00:17:51.760> of<00:17:52.000> control<00:17:52.880> hardware<00:17:53.280> and<00:17:53.520> software<00:17:53.840> you<00:17:54.000> don't<00:17:54.160> want<00:17:54.320> to<00:17:54.480> know<00:17:54.640> about<00:17:54.880> if<00:17:55.120> you're<00:17:55.200> just<00:17:55.360> playing<00:17:55.520> the<00:17:55.760> game.

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So<00:17:56.160> that's<00:17:56.320> what<00:17:56.720> Darwin's<00:17:57.280> theory<00:17:57.679> does.

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It<00:17:58.160> gives<00:17:58.400> us<00:17:59.280> uh<00:17:59.440> these<00:18:01.919> I<00:18:02.160> would<00:18:02.240> say<00:18:02.480> perceptual<00:18:03.039> shortcuts<00:18:03.679> and<00:18:04.000> hacks.

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Mhm.<00:18:05.120> Or<00:18:05.360> or<00:18:06.000> I<00:18:06.240> like<00:18:06.480> just<00:18:06.640> the<00:18:07.200> user<00:18:07.440> interface.

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It<00:18:07.919> gives<00:18:08.080> you<00:18:08.160> a<00:18:08.320> nice<00:18:08.480> little<00:18:08.640> headset<00:18:08.960> or<00:18:09.120> user<00:18:09.360> interface<00:18:09.679> to<00:18:10.000> play<00:18:10.080> the<00:18:10.320> game<00:18:10.480> of<00:18:10.640> life.

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Yeah,<00:18:11.611> it's<00:18:11.943> brilliant<00:18:12.274> how<00:18:12.606> you<00:18:12.937> talk<00:18:13.269> about<00:18:13.600> that.

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I<00:18:13.919> actually<00:18:14.160> studied<00:18:14.559> game<00:18:14.880> design<00:18:15.200> at<00:18:15.440> USC<00:18:16.240> in<00:18:16.400> LA<00:18:16.960> um<00:18:17.039> before<00:18:17.360> switching<00:18:17.679> over<00:18:17.840> to<00:18:18.000> psychology.

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So,<00:18:18.720> I<00:18:18.880> had<00:18:19.039> like<00:18:19.200> this<00:18:19.440> major<00:18:19.760> shift<00:18:20.000> in<00:18:20.160> what<00:18:20.320> I<00:18:20.480> wanted<00:18:20.559> to<00:18:20.720> do.

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But<00:18:21.360> this<00:18:21.679> example<00:18:22.000> you<00:18:22.240> use<00:18:22.480> of<00:18:22.880> the<00:18:23.120> whole<00:18:23.360> video<00:18:23.600> game<00:18:23.840> interface<00:18:24.400> Grand<00:18:24.640> Theft<00:18:24.880> Auto<00:18:25.200> is<00:18:25.440> is<00:18:25.760> amazing.

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I<00:18:26.400> loved<00:18:26.720> what<00:18:26.880> you<00:18:27.120> brought<00:18:27.360> up<00:18:27.520> here<00:18:27.840> was<00:18:28.000> that<00:18:28.799> if<00:18:29.120> you<00:18:29.280> do<00:18:29.600> know<00:18:30.080> the<00:18:30.400> absolute<00:18:30.880> truth,<00:18:31.280> it's<00:18:31.600> very<00:18:31.840> difficult<00:18:32.160> to<00:18:32.320> play<00:18:32.559> this<00:18:32.799> game.

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Um<00:18:34.240> I<00:18:34.559> have<00:18:35.039> I<00:18:35.280> have<00:18:35.440> gone<00:18:35.679> through<00:18:35.840> that<00:18:36.000> experience<00:18:36.320> as<00:18:36.480> well<00:18:36.640> where<00:18:36.880> sometimes<00:18:37.120> you<00:18:37.280> go<00:18:37.440> so<00:18:37.679> deep<00:18:37.840> into<00:18:38.080> the<00:18:38.240> truth<00:18:38.400> and<00:18:38.559> it's<00:18:38.720> really<00:18:38.880> difficult<00:18:39.120> to<00:18:39.280> come<00:18:39.520> back<00:18:39.679> into

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this<00:18:40.160> relative<00:18:40.559> world<00:18:40.799> and<00:18:40.960> then<00:18:41.520> do<00:18:41.760> everyday<00:18:42.320> day-to-day<00:18:42.880> things.

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Yes.<00:18:44.720> Just<00:18:44.880> on<00:18:45.039> a<00:18:45.200> personal<00:18:45.440> level<00:18:45.760> not<00:18:45.919> necessarily<00:18:46.559> in<00:18:46.720> the<00:18:47.600> computer<00:18:47.919> game.

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Right.<00:18:49.266> Um<00:18:49.572> right<00:18:49.878> there<00:18:50.184> [clears<00:18:50.489> throat]<00:18:50.795> is<00:18:51.101> one<00:18:51.407> thing<00:18:51.713> that<00:18:52.019> has<00:18:52.325> interested<00:18:52.631> me<00:18:52.936> while<00:18:53.242> I'm<00:18:53.548> studying<00:18:53.854> your<00:18:54.160> work.

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Before<00:18:55.679> I<00:18:55.840> get<00:18:56.000> into<00:18:56.240> that<00:18:56.480> you<00:18:56.720> had<00:18:56.960> mentioned<00:18:57.280> about<00:18:57.679> neuroscientists<00:18:58.960> your<00:18:59.200> colleagues<00:18:59.840> um<00:19:00.000> Anil<00:19:00.400> Seth<00:19:00.720> we<00:19:00.880> had<00:19:01.039> done<00:19:01.120> a<00:19:01.280> podcast<00:19:01.600> with<00:19:01.840> him<00:19:02.080> as<00:19:02.320> well.

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Your<00:19:03.360> views<00:19:03.679> differ<00:19:03.919> from<00:19:04.160> him,<00:19:04.400> correct?<00:19:05.120> Yeah,<00:19:05.360> we're<00:19:05.520> we're<00:19:06.160> great<00:19:06.480> friends<00:19:06.720> and<00:19:07.200> we<00:19:07.840> um<00:19:09.520> we<00:19:10.160> commiserated<00:19:10.880> during<00:19:11.280> long

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COVID<00:19:11.840> we<00:19:12.000> both<00:19:12.080> had<00:19:12.240> long<00:19:12.480> COVID<00:19:12.799> so<00:19:13.360> but<00:19:13.600> we<00:19:13.760> do<00:19:13.919> differ<00:19:14.160> on<00:19:14.320> this<00:19:14.480> point.

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Absolutely.<00:19:15.600> So<00:19:15.840> can<00:19:16.080> you<00:19:16.240> can<00:19:16.400> you<00:19:16.559> talk<00:19:16.720> about<00:19:16.880> that<00:19:17.039> a<00:19:17.200> little<00:19:17.280> bit<00:19:17.360> what<00:19:17.600> the<00:19:17.760> main<00:19:17.919> difference<00:19:18.240> is<00:19:18.559> between?

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Yes,<00:19:20.000> I<00:19:20.240> I<00:19:20.559> think<00:19:20.640> that<00:19:21.280> um<00:19:22.960> Anil<00:19:23.360> is<00:19:23.840> brilliant<00:19:24.160> and<00:19:24.400> he's<00:19:24.640> he's<00:19:25.039> trying<00:19:25.360> to<00:19:25.760> see<00:19:26.080> how<00:19:26.400> we<00:19:26.640> can<00:19:26.880> understand<00:19:28.320> neuroscience

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and<00:19:29.919> properties<00:19:30.320> of<00:19:30.559> brains.<00:19:31.919> um<00:19:32.320> maybe<00:19:32.640> not<00:19:32.880> just<00:19:33.200> computational<00:19:33.840> properties,<00:19:34.400> maybe<00:19:34.559> there<00:19:34.720> are<00:19:34.960> other<00:19:35.200> aspects<00:19:35.520> of<00:19:35.679> of<00:19:35.760> of<00:19:36.320> brain<00:19:36.640> activity<00:19:36.960> that<00:19:37.200> are<00:19:37.280> going<00:19:37.360> to

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be<00:19:37.600> important<00:19:37.919> here.<00:19:38.960> And<00:19:39.360> it<00:19:39.520> it<00:19:39.840> may<00:19:40.000> be<00:19:40.160> that<00:19:40.400> I<00:19:40.559> mean<00:19:40.720> he<00:19:40.880> has<00:19:41.600> a<00:19:41.840> brilliant<00:19:42.160> paper<00:19:42.400> that<00:19:42.960> um<00:19:43.200> won<00:19:43.919> a<00:19:44.000> award<00:19:44.400> recently<00:19:45.200> showing<00:19:45.919> suggesting

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that<00:19:46.559> AI<00:19:47.200> is<00:19:47.520> maybe<00:19:47.760> not<00:19:47.919> the<00:19:48.080> way<00:19:48.320> to<00:19:48.559> go<00:19:49.039> for<00:19:49.360> consciousness.

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We<00:19:50.000> need<00:19:50.080> to<00:19:50.240> have<00:19:50.559> maybe<00:19:51.120> you<00:19:51.280> know<00:19:51.679> a<00:19:51.919> real<00:19:52.160> physical<00:19:52.640> system<00:19:53.039> that<00:19:53.280> has<00:19:53.440> certain<00:19:53.760> physical<00:19:54.160> properties<00:19:54.960> to<00:19:55.200> do<00:19:55.360> it.

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and<00:19:56.160> and<00:19:56.560> I'm<00:19:56.960> I'm<00:19:57.360> glad<00:19:57.760> that<00:19:58.160> people<00:19:58.560> are<00:19:58.960> like<00:19:59.360> Anil<00:19:59.760> are<00:20:00.160> are<00:20:00.560> doing<00:20:00.960> that<00:20:01.360> kind<00:20:01.760> of<00:20:02.160> research.

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My<00:20:04.080> own<00:20:04.480> view<00:20:05.039> is<00:20:07.360> spacetime<00:20:07.840> is<00:20:08.000> not<00:20:08.160> fundamental.

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High<00:20:09.120> energy<00:20:09.520> theoretical<00:20:10.000> physicists<00:20:10.480> are<00:20:10.640> telling<00:20:10.799> us<00:20:10.960> that<00:20:12.240> and<00:20:13.200> brains<00:20:13.520> and<00:20:13.760> physical<00:20:14.080> systems<00:20:14.320> that<00:20:14.480> Anil<00:20:14.960> is<00:20:15.360> pointing<00:20:15.679> to<00:20:15.919> are<00:20:16.240> all<00:20:16.559> still<00:20:16.880> inside

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spacetime<00:20:18.640> and<00:20:18.960> their<00:20:19.280> properties<00:20:20.720> uh<00:20:21.120> therefore<00:20:21.440> are<00:20:21.600> not<00:20:21.760> fundamental.

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We<00:20:22.480> already<00:20:22.720> know<00:20:22.799> that<00:20:23.039> they're<00:20:23.200> not<00:20:23.360> fundamental.<00:20:24.799> So<00:20:25.280> it's<00:20:25.520> a<00:20:25.760> long<00:20:25.919> shot<00:20:27.200> and<00:20:28.240> one<00:20:28.559> thing<00:20:28.640> I<00:20:28.960> would<00:20:29.120> say<00:20:29.280> is<00:20:31.200> there

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are<00:20:31.679> many<00:20:32.159> there<00:20:32.400> are<00:20:32.559> trillions<00:20:33.039> of<00:20:33.200> experiences<00:20:34.000> that<00:20:34.320> human<00:20:34.559> beings<00:20:34.960> have<00:20:35.600> from<00:20:36.240> taste<00:20:36.480> of<00:20:36.720> mint<00:20:37.440> to<00:20:37.840> feeling<00:20:38.159> of<00:20:38.240> a<00:20:38.400> headache<00:20:38.720> to<00:20:39.520> the

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smell<00:20:40.000> of<00:20:40.159> garlic<00:20:40.480> and<00:20:40.640> and<00:20:40.880> so<00:20:41.039> forth.<00:20:41.600> Trillions<00:20:42.000> and<00:20:42.400> then<00:20:42.720> that<00:20:43.039> other<00:20:43.200> creatures<00:20:43.600> have<00:20:43.840> you<00:20:44.000> know<00:20:45.280> sensing<00:20:45.679> electric<00:20:46.000> fields<00:20:46.240> and<00:20:46.400> so<00:20:46.559> forth<00:20:46.799> things<00:20:46.960> that<00:20:47.120> I<00:20:47.280> I

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can't<00:20:47.760> do.<00:20:49.520> So<00:20:49.760> there<00:20:50.000> are<00:20:50.159> trillions<00:20:50.559> of<00:20:50.799> specific<00:20:51.440> conscious<00:20:51.919> experiences<00:20:53.039> and<00:20:53.679> I'm<00:20:54.000> good<00:20:54.240> friends<00:20:54.480> with<00:20:54.640> many<00:20:54.880> of<00:20:55.039> the<00:20:55.679> researchers

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who<00:20:56.400> are<00:20:56.640> trying<00:20:56.799> to<00:20:56.960> give<00:20:57.679> uh<00:20:57.760> a<00:20:58.000> neurobiological<00:20:58.960> or<00:20:59.360> computational<00:21:00.000> or<00:21:00.320> functional<00:21:01.120> kind<00:21:01.360> of<00:21:03.520> theory<00:21:03.919> of<00:21:04.159> how

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conscious<00:21:04.799> experiences<00:21:05.520> arise.<00:21:07.440> And<00:21:07.600> when<00:21:07.840> I<00:21:07.919> asked<00:21:08.159> them<00:21:09.840> give<00:21:10.000> me<00:21:10.159> a<00:21:10.400> specific<00:21:10.880> example<00:21:11.679> that<00:21:12.000> your<00:21:12.240> theory<00:21:12.559> explains.

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What<00:21:13.360> specific<00:21:13.919> conscious<00:21:14.400> experience<00:21:14.880> can<00:21:15.039> you<00:21:15.200> explain?

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And<00:21:17.440> there<00:21:17.679> is<00:21:17.919> literally<00:21:18.400> none.<00:21:19.200> And<00:21:19.360> this<00:21:19.600> is<00:21:19.760> after<00:21:20.559> decades<00:21:21.600> and<00:21:21.840> not<00:21:22.080> just<00:21:22.400> you<00:21:22.559> know<00:21:23.039> months<00:21:24.240> decades<00:21:25.200> of

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work<00:21:26.159> by<00:21:27.679> Nobel<00:21:28.159> prize<00:21:28.400> winners<00:21:28.720> and<00:21:29.039> other<00:21:29.360> brilliant<00:21:29.840> people<00:21:30.240> on<00:21:30.480> this.

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Now<00:21:32.000> just<00:21:32.240> to<00:21:32.400> put<00:21:32.480> that<00:21:32.720> in<00:21:32.880> perspective,<00:21:33.600> I'm<00:21:33.760> a<00:21:34.000> cognitive<00:21:34.320> scientist<00:21:34.640> and<00:21:34.880> suppose<00:21:35.520> I<00:21:35.760> went<00:21:35.919> to<00:21:36.080> a<00:21:36.240> bunch<00:21:36.320> of<00:21:36.480> physicists<00:21:36.880> and<00:21:37.039> said,<00:21:37.440> you<00:21:37.600> know,<00:21:38.080> I've<00:21:38.400> got<00:21:38.480> my<00:21:38.720> own

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theory<00:21:39.120> of<00:21:39.280> particle<00:21:39.679> physics<00:21:40.799> and<00:21:41.039> they<00:21:41.200> said,<00:21:41.360> "Oh,<00:21:41.600> really?

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A<00:21:42.400> cognitive<00:21:42.720> scientist<00:21:43.039> with<00:21:43.200> a<00:21:43.280> theory<00:21:43.520> of<00:21:43.679> particle<00:21:44.000> physics?"

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And<00:21:44.559> they<00:21:45.200> Okay,<00:21:45.520> well,<00:21:46.400> uh,<00:21:46.720> so<00:21:48.480> show<00:21:48.720> me<00:21:49.200> what<00:21:49.520> specific<00:21:50.080> particle<00:21:50.559> interaction<00:21:51.039> can<00:21:51.200> you<00:21:51.360> explain?

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Like<00:21:52.000> photon<00:21:52.720> electron<00:21:53.200> interaction,<00:21:53.679> what?

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And<00:21:54.159> if<00:21:54.320> I<00:21:54.480> said<00:21:54.559> to<00:21:54.720> you,<00:21:55.120> oh,<00:21:56.240> I<00:21:56.480> have<00:21:56.559> a<00:21:56.799> general<00:21:57.039> theory<00:21:57.280> of<00:21:57.440> particle<00:21:57.760> interactions.

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I<00:21:58.640> can't<00:21:58.799> explain<00:21:59.039> a<00:21:59.280> single<00:21:59.520> specific<00:22:00.000> particle<00:22:00.400> interaction.

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Would<00:22:01.840> they<00:22:02.000> give<00:22:02.080> me<00:22:02.240> the<00:22:02.400> time<00:22:02.559> of<00:22:02.720> day?<00:22:03.280> Absolutely<00:22:03.760> not.

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Until<00:22:05.120> you<00:22:05.280> can<00:22:05.520> explain<00:22:05.840> a<00:22:06.080> specific<00:22:06.400> thing<00:22:06.640> and<00:22:06.880> show<00:22:07.120> that<00:22:07.280> it<00:22:07.520> works<00:22:07.919> in<00:22:08.159> a<00:22:08.400> specific<00:22:08.799> case,<00:22:09.760> what<00:22:10.000> do<00:22:10.080> you<00:22:10.240> have?

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We<00:22:11.440> have<00:22:12.080> in<00:22:12.400> consciousness<00:22:12.960> studies.

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Those<00:22:15.600> again<00:22:15.919> they're<00:22:16.159> brilliant<00:22:17.440> researchers.

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Many<00:22:18.159> of<00:22:18.320> them<00:22:18.400> are<00:22:18.559> my<00:22:18.799> friends<00:22:18.960> and<00:22:19.200> certainly<00:22:19.520> colleagues.<00:22:21.520> Those<00:22:22.400> researchers<00:22:22.880> who<00:22:23.120> are<00:22:23.280> looking<00:22:23.440> for<00:22:23.679> functional,<00:22:24.480> computational,<00:22:25.760> or<00:22:26.080> neurobiological

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accounts<00:22:28.320> of<00:22:28.640> conscious<00:22:29.039> experiences<00:22:30.400> have<00:22:30.640> yet<00:22:30.960> to<00:22:31.120> explain<00:22:31.520> a<00:22:31.840> single<00:22:32.240> specific<00:22:32.799> conscious<00:22:33.200> experience.

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They're<00:22:33.840> batting<00:22:34.240> zero.<00:22:34.720> There's<00:22:35.039> nothing<00:22:35.280> on<00:22:35.520> the<00:22:35.679> table.

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Now,<00:22:38.080> there<00:22:38.320> are<00:22:38.480> some<00:22:38.720> who<00:22:38.960> will<00:22:39.200> say,<00:22:39.760> "Ah,<00:22:40.640> well,<00:22:41.200> that's<00:22:41.520> because<00:22:41.679> you're<00:22:41.919> talking<00:22:42.080> about<00:22:42.320> conscious<00:22:42.720> experiences,<00:22:43.200> and<00:22:43.360> there<00:22:43.520> are<00:22:43.679> no<00:22:43.840> such<00:22:44.000> thing<00:22:44.080> as<00:22:44.320> conscious

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experiences.<00:22:45.600> We<00:22:45.840> have<00:22:46.000> the<00:22:46.320> illusion<00:22:46.799> of<00:22:47.120> conscious<00:22:47.520> experiences."

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So<00:22:48.320> Michael<00:22:48.559> Graziano<00:22:49.760> and<00:22:49.919> and<00:22:50.320> others<00:22:51.039> have<00:22:51.200> have<00:22:51.440> said<00:22:51.600> this<00:22:51.840> kind<00:22:51.919> of<00:22:52.080> thing.

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So<00:22:52.480> there<00:22:52.640> are<00:22:52.720> no<00:22:52.880> conscious<00:22:53.200> experiences.<00:22:53.760> There's<00:22:53.919> just<00:22:54.080> the<00:22:54.400> illusion<00:22:54.640> of<00:22:54.799> the<00:22:55.039> taste<00:22:55.200> of<00:22:55.360> mint.

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So<00:22:56.400> and<00:22:56.559> and<00:22:58.000> I<00:22:58.240> say<00:22:58.400> to<00:22:58.559> them<00:22:58.880> fine<00:22:59.360> that<00:22:59.600> I'm<00:22:59.840> perfectly<00:23:00.159> fine<00:23:00.400> if<00:23:00.559> you<00:23:00.640> want<00:23:00.960> to<00:23:01.120> go<00:23:01.280> that<00:23:01.520> way.

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But<00:23:02.559> we're<00:23:02.799> still<00:23:02.960> doing<00:23:03.120> science<00:23:03.440> here.<00:23:04.240> So<00:23:04.400> if<00:23:04.559> you<00:23:04.720> want<00:23:04.880> to<00:23:04.960> have<00:23:05.120> a<00:23:05.360> neurobiological<00:23:06.159> theory<00:23:06.400> or<00:23:06.640> computational<00:23:07.280> theory<00:23:07.600> or<00:23:08.240> or<00:23:08.559> whatever<00:23:08.960> or<00:23:09.200> functional<00:23:09.520> theory

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then<00:23:11.440> I<00:23:11.760> want<00:23:11.919> you<00:23:12.159> to<00:23:12.400> explain<00:23:12.880> specifically<00:23:13.600> how<00:23:13.919> I<00:23:14.159> get<00:23:14.480> for<00:23:14.640> example<00:23:15.360> the<00:23:15.760> illusion<00:23:16.320> of<00:23:16.559> the<00:23:16.720> taste<00:23:17.039> of<00:23:17.200> mint<00:23:17.760> and<00:23:18.000> the<00:23:18.400> illusion

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of<00:23:18.960> the<00:23:19.200> feeling<00:23:19.440> of<00:23:19.600> a<00:23:19.760> headache.<00:23:20.320> It's<00:23:20.559> not<00:23:20.640> enough<00:23:20.880> to<00:23:21.039> just<00:23:21.200> say<00:23:21.360> that<00:23:21.520> they're<00:23:21.840> illusions.

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You<00:23:23.520> need<00:23:23.679> to<00:23:24.000> if<00:23:24.240> this<00:23:24.400> is<00:23:24.559> I<00:23:24.720> mean<00:23:24.799> if<00:23:25.039> it's<00:23:25.200> philosophy<00:23:25.600> that's<00:23:25.760> one<00:23:25.840> thing<00:23:26.000> you<00:23:26.080> can<00:23:26.240> just<00:23:26.320> talk<00:23:26.480> about<00:23:26.640> being<00:23:26.880> illusion.

00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:29.360
Okay.<00:23:27.840> But<00:23:28.000> I'm<00:23:28.240> I'm<00:23:28.480> talking<00:23:28.720> science<00:23:29.039> now.

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So,<00:23:29.600> as<00:23:29.760> a<00:23:30.000> scientist,<00:23:30.400> if<00:23:30.559> you<00:23:30.640> want<00:23:30.799> me<00:23:30.880> to<00:23:30.960> take<00:23:31.039> you<00:23:31.280> seriously<00:23:31.520> as<00:23:31.679> a<00:23:31.840> scientist<00:23:32.320> and<00:23:32.640> you're<00:23:32.799> saying<00:23:32.880> that<00:23:33.120> there's<00:23:33.280> no<00:23:33.440> such<00:23:33.600> thing<00:23:33.760> as<00:23:34.640> the<00:23:35.039> taste<00:23:35.280> of<00:23:35.440> mint,<00:23:35.760> but

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there<00:23:36.159> is<00:23:36.240> the<00:23:36.559> illusion<00:23:36.720> of<00:23:36.799> the<00:23:36.960> taste<00:23:37.200> of<00:23:37.280> mint,<00:23:37.679> then<00:23:37.840> I<00:23:38.000> want<00:23:38.159> a<00:23:38.240> theory<00:23:38.480> of<00:23:38.559> that.

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And<00:23:39.440> until<00:23:39.760> you<00:23:39.919> can<00:23:40.080> give<00:23:40.240> me<00:23:40.400> a<00:23:40.640> specific<00:23:41.200> example,<00:23:41.919> this<00:23:42.159> is<00:23:42.400> the<00:23:42.640> functional<00:23:43.120> structure<00:23:43.840> that<00:23:44.240> must<00:23:44.480> be<00:23:45.039> the<00:23:45.440> illusion<00:23:45.679> of<00:23:45.760> the<00:23:45.919> taste<00:23:46.080> of<00:23:46.240> mint<00:23:46.559> and<00:23:46.880> could<00:23:47.120> not

00:23:47.280 --> 00:23:53.600
be<00:23:47.572> the<00:23:47.864> illusion<00:23:48.156> of<00:23:48.448> a<00:23:48.740> headache.<00:23:49.032> Until<00:23:49.324> you<00:23:49.616> can<00:23:49.908> give<00:23:50.200> me<00:23:50.492> at<00:23:50.784> least<00:23:51.076> one,<00:23:51.368> we're<00:23:51.660> not<00:23:51.952> talking<00:23:52.244> a<00:23:52.536> scientific<00:23:52.828> theory<00:23:53.120> here.

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So<00:23:54.000> just<00:23:54.240> saying<00:23:54.720> and<00:23:54.960> so<00:23:55.120> a<00:23:55.280> lot<00:23:55.440> of<00:23:55.520> people<00:23:56.159> think<00:23:56.320> that<00:23:56.640> you<00:23:56.799> know<00:23:57.120> just<00:23:57.360> saying<00:23:57.440> that<00:23:57.600> there<00:23:57.760> is<00:23:57.919> no<00:23:58.080> such<00:23:58.240> thing<00:23:58.320> as<00:23:58.480> consciousness<00:23:58.960> it's<00:23:59.120> just<00:23:59.200> an<00:23:59.440> illusion<00:23:59.840> gets

00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:06.720
you<00:24:00.159> off<00:24:00.320> the<00:24:00.400> hook.<00:24:00.640> It<00:24:00.799> doesn't<00:24:00.880> get<00:24:00.960> you<00:24:01.120> off<00:24:01.200> the<00:24:01.280> hook.<00:24:01.520> Not<00:24:01.679> as<00:24:01.840> a<00:24:02.000> scientist<00:24:02.400> doesn't<00:24:02.799> as<00:24:03.039> a<00:24:03.200> philosopher<00:24:03.760> maybe<00:24:04.640> even<00:24:04.960> then<00:24:05.200> maybe<00:24:05.440> not<00:24:05.679> but<00:24:06.000> but<00:24:06.320> certainly<00:24:06.559> not

00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.000
as<00:24:06.880> a<00:24:07.039> scientist<00:24:07.520> you<00:24:07.760> need<00:24:07.840> to<00:24:07.919> have<00:24:08.000> a<00:24:08.159> scientific<00:24:08.559> theory<00:24:08.799> of<00:24:08.880> the<00:24:09.200> illusion.

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So<00:24:10.640> so<00:24:11.120> my<00:24:11.360> attitude<00:24:11.760> then<00:24:12.000> is<00:24:13.039> um<00:24:14.320> I<00:24:14.559> know<00:24:14.720> these<00:24:14.960> people<00:24:15.200> they're<00:24:15.440> brilliant.

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The<00:24:17.840> reason<00:24:18.960> we<00:24:19.200> don't<00:24:19.360> have<00:24:19.440> a<00:24:19.600> theory<00:24:19.840> of<00:24:20.000> a<00:24:20.240> sp<00:24:20.720> a<00:24:21.039> single<00:24:21.279> specific<00:24:21.679> conscious<00:24:22.080> experience<00:24:22.400> or<00:24:22.720> illusion<00:24:23.120> of<00:24:23.279> conscious<00:24:23.679> experience<00:24:24.080> is<00:24:24.320> not<00:24:24.480> because<00:24:24.640> they're<00:24:24.799> not

00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:29.679
trying.<00:24:25.279> It's<00:24:25.520> not<00:24:25.679> because<00:24:25.840> they're<00:24:26.000> not<00:24:26.159> smart.<00:24:26.799> They're<00:24:27.120> trying<00:24:27.360> hard<00:24:27.600> and<00:24:27.840> they're<00:24:28.159> brilliant.

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The<00:24:29.919> failure<00:24:30.400> is<00:24:30.720> principled.<00:24:31.840> You<00:24:32.080> cannot<00:24:32.480> do<00:24:32.720> this.

00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:41.840
That's<00:24:33.679> my<00:24:33.919> claim.<00:24:34.480> And<00:24:34.640> so<00:24:34.799> we<00:24:35.120> need<00:24:35.279> to<00:24:35.600> step<00:24:35.840> away<00:24:36.080> from<00:24:36.640> space<00:24:36.960> and<00:24:37.200> time<00:24:37.440> and<00:24:37.760> functional<00:24:38.799> or<00:24:39.120> computational<00:24:39.679> approaches<00:24:40.640> and<00:24:41.039> start<00:24:41.360> to<00:24:41.679> look

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for<00:24:42.159> a<00:24:42.400> deeper<00:24:42.640> framework<00:24:42.960> to<00:24:43.200> understand<00:24:43.520> conscious<00:24:43.919> experience.

00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:53.200
Mhm.<00:24:46.159> Mainstream<00:24:47.200> neuroscience<00:24:48.480> for<00:24:48.720> all<00:24:48.960> these<00:24:49.200> years<00:24:49.600> has<00:24:49.919> basically<00:24:50.480> said<00:24:51.120> that<00:24:52.080> consciousness,<00:24:53.039> if

00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:56.080
there<00:24:53.360> is<00:24:53.600> such<00:24:53.679> a<00:24:53.840> thing,<00:24:54.080> is<00:24:54.320> a<00:24:54.640> byproduct<00:24:55.279> of<00:24:55.520> the<00:24:55.679> brain.

00:24:56.080 --> 00:25:00.960
Right.<00:24:56.480> That's<00:24:56.720> right.<00:24:58.000> David<00:24:58.400> Chalmers<00:24:58.880> coined<00:24:59.279> the<00:24:59.600> hard<00:24:59.919> problem<00:25:00.159> of<00:25:00.320> consciousness.

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I<00:25:01.120> would<00:25:01.279> love<00:25:01.440> if<00:25:01.600> you<00:25:01.679> can<00:25:01.840> talk<00:25:02.000> a<00:25:02.159> little<00:25:02.320> bit<00:25:02.559> about<00:25:02.799> that<00:25:03.039> because<00:25:03.440> essentially<00:25:03.760> what<00:25:03.919> you're<00:25:04.240> doing<00:25:04.400> now<00:25:04.799> is<00:25:05.039> you're<00:25:05.279> going<00:25:05.440> against<00:25:05.840> mainstream<00:25:06.400> science,<00:25:06.799> flipping

00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.200
that<00:25:07.520> coin<00:25:08.320> entirely.<00:25:10.480> Right.

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So,<00:25:12.799> so<00:25:13.279> the<00:25:13.440> hard<00:25:13.600> problem<00:25:13.760> of<00:25:14.000> consciousness<00:25:14.559> is<00:25:14.960> the<00:25:15.279> problem<00:25:15.520> of<00:25:15.840> how<00:25:16.400> to<00:25:17.360> start<00:25:17.600> with<00:25:18.000> some<00:25:18.240> kind<00:25:18.320> of<00:25:18.480> physical<00:25:18.880> system<00:25:19.440> and

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boot<00:25:20.080> up<00:25:20.320> conscious<00:25:20.799> experiences<00:25:21.360> without<00:25:21.600> a<00:25:21.840> handwave<00:25:22.559> without<00:25:23.279> dodging<00:25:24.080> and<00:25:24.480> weaving.

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So,<00:25:26.400> so<00:25:26.720> and<00:25:26.880> that's<00:25:27.200> that<00:25:28.640> Chalmers<00:25:30.320> gave<00:25:30.559> a<00:25:30.799> really<00:25:31.360> brilliant<00:25:31.679> name<00:25:31.919> calling<00:25:32.240> it<00:25:32.320> the<00:25:32.400> hard<00:25:32.640> problem.

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It<00:25:33.039> really<00:25:33.360> stuck<00:25:33.679> and<00:25:33.919> caught<00:25:34.159> on.<00:25:34.320> But<00:25:34.480> of<00:25:34.640> course<00:25:34.720> philosophers<00:25:35.200> had<00:25:35.360> had<00:25:35.600> known<00:25:35.760> this<00:25:35.919> for<00:25:36.240> and<00:25:36.320> and<00:25:36.640> Chalmers<00:25:37.120> was<00:25:37.279> very<00:25:37.440> very<00:25:37.679> clear<00:25:37.840> about<00:25:38.080> that<00:25:38.559> in<00:25:38.799> his<00:25:39.039> own

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lectures<00:25:39.600> that<00:25:39.760> that<00:25:40.240> he<00:25:40.400> wasn't<00:25:40.640> the<00:25:40.799> one<00:25:40.880> that<00:25:41.039> came<00:25:41.120> up<00:25:41.279> with<00:25:41.360> the<00:25:41.520> idea.

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He<00:25:41.919> came<00:25:42.000> up<00:25:42.159> with<00:25:42.240> the<00:25:42.400> with<00:25:42.559> the<00:25:42.720> nomenclature.<00:25:43.360> So<00:25:43.440> he's<00:25:43.679> very<00:25:43.840> humble<00:25:44.000> about<00:25:44.159> that<00:25:44.400> himself.

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Uh<00:25:45.919> so<00:25:46.640> so<00:25:48.159> yeah<00:25:48.640> the<00:25:48.799> the<00:25:49.120> field<00:25:49.440> is<00:25:49.840> still<00:25:51.200> then<00:25:52.159> saying<00:25:52.400> that<00:25:52.640> they're<00:25:52.880> going<00:25:52.960> to<00:25:53.120> try<00:25:53.200> to

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solve<00:25:53.600> the<00:25:53.760> hard<00:25:54.000> problem<00:25:54.159> of<00:25:54.320> consciousness<00:25:55.200> by<00:25:55.600> just<00:25:55.919> working<00:25:56.159> harder<00:25:56.880> on<00:25:57.279> the<00:25:57.600> neuroscience<00:25:58.320> or<00:25:58.559> the<00:25:59.200> computational<00:25:59.840> properties<00:26:00.159> or<00:26:00.400> the<00:26:00.559> functional<00:26:00.960> properties

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or<00:26:01.723> whatever<00:26:02.168> it<00:26:02.612> might<00:26:03.057> be<00:26:03.501> or<00:26:03.946> your<00:26:04.390> quantum<00:26:04.835> um<00:26:05.279> collapses<00:26:05.723> of<00:26:06.168> microtubules<00:26:06.612> and<00:26:07.057> in<00:26:07.501> in<00:26:07.946> in<00:26:08.390> certain<00:26:08.835> system<00:26:09.279> like

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Ham<00:26:10.159> and<00:26:10.240> and<00:26:10.400> Penrose's<00:26:11.200> approach.

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So<00:26:12.640> there<00:26:12.960> are<00:26:13.120> all<00:26:13.440> sorts<00:26:13.679> of<00:26:13.760> approaches<00:26:14.159> that<00:26:14.400> are<00:26:14.559> trying<00:26:14.799> to<00:26:14.960> start<00:26:15.200> with<00:26:15.360> something<00:26:15.679> physical<00:26:16.000> in<00:26:16.240> space<00:26:16.400> and<00:26:16.559> time<00:26:16.720> or<00:26:16.960> functional<00:26:17.279> or<00:26:17.440> computational.

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And<00:26:19.600> again<00:26:19.840> to<00:26:20.000> each<00:26:20.159> of<00:26:20.240> them<00:26:20.480> I<00:26:20.640> I<00:26:21.039> say<00:26:22.159> when<00:26:22.400> you<00:26:22.559> have<00:26:22.880> a<00:26:23.120> specific<00:26:23.520> case<00:26:23.679> that<00:26:23.919> you<00:26:24.080> can<00:26:24.240> explain<00:26:24.640> a<00:26:24.799> specific<00:26:25.279> experience<00:26:26.000> let<00:26:26.159> me<00:26:26.320> know.

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But<00:26:27.120> I<00:26:27.279> think<00:26:27.440> that<00:26:28.640> at<00:26:28.960> some<00:26:29.120> point<00:26:29.360> we're<00:26:29.600> going<00:26:29.679> to<00:26:29.840> realize<00:26:31.279> that<00:26:31.840> you<00:26:32.159> just<00:26:32.400> can't<00:26:32.640> do<00:26:32.799> it<00:26:33.200> and<00:26:33.360> and<00:26:33.760> you<00:26:33.919> just<00:26:34.080> have<00:26:34.559> but<00:26:34.799> what<00:26:35.039> we

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so<00:26:35.919> but<00:26:36.080> I'm<00:26:36.240> not<00:26:36.400> throwing<00:26:36.559> up<00:26:36.720> my<00:26:36.799> hands<00:26:37.039> and<00:26:37.200> saying<00:26:37.440> you<00:26:37.600> know<00:26:38.080> we<00:26:38.320> have<00:26:38.480> to<00:26:38.640> forget<00:26:38.960> science.

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So<00:26:39.440> I'm<00:26:39.600> saying<00:26:39.760> no,<00:26:40.000> we<00:26:40.159> can<00:26:40.240> start<00:26:40.400> with<00:26:40.799> a<00:26:41.039> theory<00:26:41.360> in<00:26:41.520> which<00:26:42.080> we<00:26:42.320> can<00:26:42.480> talk<00:26:42.640> with<00:26:42.880> about<00:26:43.200> conscious<00:26:43.600> experiences<00:26:44.240> outside<00:26:44.640> of<00:26:44.799> spacetime<00:26:46.080> as<00:26:46.320> being<00:26:46.720> more<00:26:47.039> fundamental

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than<00:26:47.840> spacetime<00:26:48.799> and<00:26:49.039> then<00:26:49.279> our<00:26:49.520> job<00:26:49.679> is<00:26:49.919> to<00:26:50.080> start<00:26:50.240> with<00:26:50.400> those<00:26:51.520> a<00:26:51.760> mathematical<00:26:52.320> model<00:26:52.559> of<00:26:52.799> experiences<00:26:53.919> and<00:26:54.320> show<00:26:54.559> how<00:26:55.200> we<00:26:55.440> can<00:26:55.600> build

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spacetime

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in<00:26:58.720> in<00:26:59.120> great<00:26:59.440> detail.<00:27:00.400> And<00:27:00.640> one<00:27:00.880> way<00:27:00.960> to<00:27:01.120> put<00:27:01.360> this<00:27:02.159> for<00:27:02.400> those<00:27:02.640> who<00:27:02.799> are<00:27:02.960> not<00:27:03.440> comfortable<00:27:03.760> with<00:27:03.919> consciousness<00:27:04.720> or<00:27:05.039> you<00:27:05.279> know<00:27:06.320> the<00:27:06.720> illusion

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of<00:27:07.120> consciousness<00:27:07.919> I<00:27:08.159> can<00:27:08.320> put<00:27:08.480> this<00:27:08.640> in<00:27:08.799> a<00:27:08.960> more<00:27:09.120> neutral<00:27:09.440> language<00:27:09.760> and<00:27:09.919> it<00:27:10.080> is<00:27:10.240> still<00:27:10.400> the<00:27:10.640> same<00:27:10.799> content<00:27:11.440> and<00:27:11.600> that<00:27:11.760> is<00:27:11.919> to<00:27:12.080> say<00:27:12.799> science<00:27:13.279> itself

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is<00:27:16.480> founded<00:27:16.960> on<00:27:17.440> observation.<00:27:18.880> We<00:27:19.120> have<00:27:19.840> scientists<00:27:20.480> who<00:27:21.440> go<00:27:21.600> out<00:27:21.760> and<00:27:22.000> make<00:27:22.159> individual<00:27:22.720> observations<00:27:23.440> sometimes<00:27:23.760> with<00:27:24.000> instruments.

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Scientists<00:27:25.520> then<00:27:25.760> compare<00:27:26.000> notes.<00:27:26.400> I<00:27:26.559> made<00:27:26.720> this<00:27:26.960> measurement.

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What<00:27:28.000> did<00:27:28.159> you<00:27:28.400> get?<00:27:29.120> Do<00:27:29.360> we<00:27:29.520> agree?

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Do<00:27:30.159> we<00:27:30.320> disagree?<00:27:30.960> So<00:27:31.360> scientists<00:27:32.799> observe<00:27:34.000> sometimes<00:27:34.400> with<00:27:34.559> instruments.

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They<00:27:35.919> talk,<00:27:36.480> they<00:27:36.799> exchange<00:27:37.919> data,<00:27:38.480> they<00:27:38.799> they<00:27:39.120> compare<00:27:39.440> observations.

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And<00:27:41.360> it's<00:27:42.000> the<00:27:42.320> fact<00:27:42.400> that<00:27:42.799> your<00:27:43.200> observations<00:27:43.840> match<00:27:44.240> mine<00:27:44.720> that<00:27:45.039> begins<00:27:45.279> to<00:27:45.440> give<00:27:45.600> us<00:27:45.760> some<00:27:46.000> sense<00:27:46.240> of<00:27:47.679> we're<00:27:48.000> getting<00:27:48.240> some<00:27:48.480> notion<00:27:48.720> of<00:27:48.880> objectivity<00:27:49.520> now

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coming<00:27:50.000> out<00:27:50.159> of<00:27:50.559> science.<00:27:51.679> And<00:27:51.919> it's<00:27:52.640> the<00:27:53.200> observations<00:27:53.919> and<00:27:54.159> their<00:27:54.399> outcomes<00:27:54.960> that<00:27:55.279> then<00:27:56.559> guide<00:27:56.799> us<00:27:57.039> to<00:27:57.279> theories,<00:27:58.640> help

00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.880
us<00:27:59.039> to<00:27:59.279> create<00:27:59.520> theories,<00:27:59.919> and<00:28:00.080> then<00:28:00.240> go<00:28:00.399> and<00:28:00.559> test<00:28:00.799> our<00:28:00.960> theories<00:28:01.279> and<00:28:01.440> shoot<00:28:01.679> them<00:28:01.840> down<00:28:02.000> when<00:28:02.320> they're<00:28:02.480> wrong.

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So<00:28:03.200> it's<00:28:03.840> it's<00:28:04.320> so<00:28:04.640> observation<00:28:05.600> is<00:28:06.399> absolutely<00:28:07.039> at<00:28:07.279> the<00:28:07.440> foundation<00:28:08.000> of<00:28:08.320> all<00:28:08.559> of<00:28:08.880> science.

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And<00:28:10.320> remarkably,<00:28:11.440> science<00:28:12.240> does<00:28:12.480> not<00:28:12.640> yet<00:28:12.880> have<00:28:13.120> a<00:28:13.360> universally<00:28:13.840> accepted<00:28:14.240> theory<00:28:14.559> of<00:28:14.799> observation.

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We<00:28:16.799> don't<00:28:17.279> we<00:28:17.600> and<00:28:17.760> and<00:28:18.000> the<00:28:18.159> attempts<00:28:18.559> right<00:28:18.720> now<00:28:18.880> are<00:28:19.039> quite<00:28:19.360> interesting.

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Right<00:28:20.240> now,<00:28:20.880> if<00:28:21.039> you<00:28:21.200> look<00:28:21.360> at<00:28:22.000> the<00:28:22.240> attempts<00:28:22.559> to<00:28:22.799> understand<00:28:23.120> what<00:28:23.360> observation<00:28:24.000> is,<00:28:25.200> most<00:28:25.360> of<00:28:25.520> them<00:28:25.679> are<00:28:25.919> are<00:28:26.240> trying<00:28:26.320> to<00:28:26.480> be<00:28:26.640> shoehorned<00:28:27.279> into<00:28:27.600> spacetime.

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So,<00:28:29.440> right,<00:28:29.679> we're<00:28:30.000> trying<00:28:30.240> to<00:28:30.559> shoehorn<00:28:31.120> the<00:28:31.279> observer<00:28:32.240> like<00:28:32.480> give<00:28:32.640> quantum<00:28:32.960> mechanical<00:28:33.520> descriptions<00:28:33.919> of<00:28:34.080> observers<00:28:34.559> or<00:28:34.720> some<00:28:34.880> kind<00:28:35.039> of<00:28:35.120> physical<00:28:35.520> descriptions

00:28:35.919 --> 00:28:44.720
of<00:28:36.159> observers.<00:28:37.200> For<00:28:37.440> for<00:28:37.600> example,<00:28:37.840> the<00:28:38.000> neuroscience<00:28:38.559> of<00:28:38.720> consciousness<00:28:39.200> stuff<00:28:39.600> is<00:28:39.919> all<00:28:40.080> about<00:28:40.559> shoehorning<00:28:41.200> the<00:28:42.000> the<00:28:42.399> observer<00:28:42.960> into<00:28:43.600> the<00:28:43.760> neuroscience<00:28:44.399> or

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to<00:28:45.440> computational<00:28:46.080> or<00:28:46.240> functional<00:28:46.640> models.

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So<00:28:48.399> the<00:28:48.640> observer<00:28:49.039> which<00:28:49.200> is<00:28:49.279> at<00:28:49.440> the<00:28:49.600> foundation<00:28:49.840> of<00:28:50.000> science<00:28:50.480> is<00:28:50.799> trying<00:28:50.960> to<00:28:51.120> be<00:28:51.279> shoehorned<00:28:51.919> into<00:28:52.240> a<00:28:52.480> particular<00:28:52.880> little<00:28:53.120> theory<00:28:53.440> in<00:28:53.600> science<00:28:53.919> namely<00:28:54.880> some<00:28:55.200> functional

00:28:55.679 --> 00:29:04.159
or<00:28:56.080> or<00:28:56.960> neurobiological<00:28:57.760> theory<00:28:58.640> and<00:28:59.360> but<00:28:59.679> our<00:29:00.000> best<00:29:00.240> science<00:29:00.559> already<00:29:00.880> tells<00:29:01.120> us<00:29:01.679> that<00:29:02.000> spacetime<00:29:02.480> itself<00:29:02.880> cannot<00:29:03.200> be<00:29:03.360> fundamental.

00:29:04.159 --> 00:29:12.480
So<00:29:04.320> if<00:29:04.480> you're<00:29:04.640> trying<00:29:04.799> to<00:29:04.960> shoehorn<00:29:05.919> the<00:29:06.240> observer<00:29:06.799> your<00:29:06.960> theory<00:29:07.200> of<00:29:07.279> the<00:29:07.440> observer<00:29:07.840> into<00:29:08.640> spacetime<00:29:09.279> and<00:29:09.520> spacetime<00:29:10.000> we<00:29:10.320> know<00:29:10.480> is<00:29:10.720> not<00:29:10.880> fundamental<00:29:12.080> but<00:29:12.320> the

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observer<00:29:12.880> is<00:29:13.039> surely<00:29:13.440> fundamental<00:29:14.000> to<00:29:14.159> science.

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So<00:29:15.760> we<00:29:16.000> can't<00:29:16.159> take<00:29:16.399> one<00:29:16.640> theory<00:29:16.960> that<00:29:17.120> we<00:29:17.279> know<00:29:17.760> that<00:29:17.919> science<00:29:18.159> has<00:29:18.320> come<00:29:18.399> up<00:29:18.559> with<00:29:18.720> that's<00:29:18.960> not<00:29:19.120> fundamental.

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Try<00:29:20.000> to<00:29:20.080> put<00:29:20.240> the<00:29:20.399> observer<00:29:20.720> inside<00:29:20.960> that<00:29:21.200> theory<00:29:21.440> without<00:29:21.760> in<00:29:22.000> some<00:29:22.159> sense<00:29:22.399> sort<00:29:22.559> of<00:29:22.799> logically<00:29:23.279> shooting<00:29:23.520> ourselves<00:29:23.840> in<00:29:24.000> the<00:29:24.080> foot.

00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:26.960
Now<00:29:24.720> there<00:29:24.960> there<00:29:25.279> we<00:29:25.440> are<00:29:25.600> shooting<00:29:25.919> ourselves<00:29:26.240> in<00:29:26.399> the<00:29:26.480> foot.

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Correct?<00:29:27.919> Because<00:29:28.159> there's<00:29:28.880> you<00:29:29.039> have<00:29:29.200> to<00:29:29.279> have<00:29:29.360> a<00:29:29.520> theory<00:29:29.679> of<00:29:29.840> the<00:29:30.000> observer<00:29:30.559> that<00:29:30.880> allows<00:29:31.200> you<00:29:31.440> to<00:29:31.600> do<00:29:31.840> science.

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If<00:29:32.640> your<00:29:32.799> theory<00:29:33.039> of<00:29:33.200> the<00:29:33.279> observer<00:29:33.919> sort<00:29:34.159> of<00:29:34.399> makes<00:29:34.640> it<00:29:34.799> so<00:29:34.960> that<00:29:35.120> science<00:29:35.440> doesn't<00:29:35.679> make<00:29:35.840> sense<00:29:36.640> then<00:29:36.799> you<00:29:36.960> got<00:29:37.039> an<00:29:37.200> epistemological<00:29:37.919> problem<00:29:38.240> you<00:29:38.480> from<00:29:38.640> a<00:29:38.799> philosophical

00:29:39.360 --> 00:29:43.200
point<00:29:39.520> of<00:29:39.679> view.<00:29:40.000> This<00:29:40.159> is<00:29:40.240> a<00:29:40.399> point<00:29:40.480> that's<00:29:40.720> made<00:29:40.960> well<00:29:41.120> by<00:29:41.279> the<00:29:41.520> philosopher<00:29:41.919> Emily<00:29:42.240> Adlam<00:29:42.720> by<00:29:42.799> the<00:29:42.880> way.

00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.360
So<00:29:43.679> her<00:29:43.919> work<00:29:44.080> is<00:29:44.240> really<00:29:44.480> quite<00:29:44.799> good<00:29:44.880> on<00:29:45.120> this.

00:29:45.360 --> 00:29:53.760
So<00:29:45.760> I<00:29:45.919> would<00:29:46.080> I<00:29:46.320> would<00:29:46.480> highly<00:29:47.520> point<00:29:47.840> people<00:29:48.080> to<00:29:48.240> the<00:29:48.399> work<00:29:48.559> of<00:29:48.720> Emily<00:29:49.039> Adlam<00:29:49.440> that<00:29:49.919> we<00:29:50.240> really<00:29:50.399> need<00:29:50.559> a<00:29:50.720> theory<00:29:50.960> of<00:29:51.039> the<00:29:51.200> observer<00:29:51.919> and<00:29:52.159> it<00:29:52.399> needs<00:29:52.559> to<00:29:52.799> be<00:29:53.200> a<00:29:53.520> clean

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theory<00:29:54.080> otherwise<00:29:54.480> science<00:29:54.799> itself<00:29:55.120> is<00:29:55.360> 10<00:29:55.600> ft<00:29:55.760> off<00:29:55.919> the<00:29:56.080> ground.

00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:03.120
We've<00:29:56.720> lost<00:29:56.960> our<00:29:57.200> foundation.<00:29:57.919> So<00:29:58.159> that's<00:29:58.320> another<00:29:58.640> way<00:29:58.720> to<00:29:58.880> look<00:29:58.960> at<00:29:59.120> what<00:29:59.279> we're<00:29:59.520> talking<00:29:59.679> about<00:29:59.840> here<00:30:00.080> is<00:30:00.240> that<00:30:00.480> consciousness<00:30:01.600> is<00:30:01.840> not<00:30:02.000> just<00:30:02.159> a<00:30:02.320> little<00:30:02.480> technical

00:30:03.120 --> 00:30:08.080
problem<00:30:03.440> that<00:30:03.679> some<00:30:03.919> neuroscientists<00:30:04.640> are<00:30:04.799> interested<00:30:05.039> in<00:30:06.159> looked<00:30:06.399> at<00:30:06.720> from<00:30:06.960> a<00:30:07.120> bigger<00:30:07.360> perspective.

00:30:08.080 --> 00:30:12.159
We're<00:30:08.399> dealing<00:30:08.640> with<00:30:08.880> the<00:30:09.200> most<00:30:09.440> fundamental<00:30:10.000> problem<00:30:10.320> in<00:30:10.640> all<00:30:10.880> of<00:30:11.039> science<00:30:11.440> today.

00:30:12.159 --> 00:30:20.480
We<00:30:12.480> have<00:30:12.640> to<00:30:12.799> have<00:30:13.360> a<00:30:13.600> clean<00:30:13.840> theory<00:30:14.080> of<00:30:14.240> the<00:30:14.320> observer<00:30:14.799> or<00:30:15.120> science<00:30:15.520> itself<00:30:17.039> is<00:30:17.760> at<00:30:18.000> risk<00:30:18.960> of<00:30:19.200> being<00:30:19.440> inconsistent.

00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:24.000
And<00:30:20.640> so<00:30:20.799> that's<00:30:21.039> that's<00:30:21.440> that<00:30:21.679> puts<00:30:21.919> a<00:30:22.080> little<00:30:22.240> bit<00:30:22.399> higher<00:30:22.640> stake<00:30:22.880> on<00:30:23.039> this<00:30:23.200> whole<00:30:23.440> discussion.

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:27.760
Right.<00:30:24.328> It<00:30:24.656> reminds<00:30:24.984> me<00:30:25.312> of<00:30:25.640> the<00:30:25.967> story<00:30:26.295> of<00:30:26.623> um<00:30:26.951> Swami<00:30:27.279> Sarvapriyananda.

00:30:27.760 --> 00:30:35.840
He<00:30:27.919> had<00:30:28.080> actually<00:30:28.320> met<00:30:28.559> at<00:30:28.880> a<00:30:29.200> conference<00:30:29.760> a<00:30:30.240> AI<00:30:30.720> pioneer<00:30:31.200> one<00:30:31.360> of<00:30:31.440> the<00:30:31.600> biggest<00:30:31.760> ones<00:30:32.080> and<00:30:32.559> he<00:30:32.799> had<00:30:32.960> asked<00:30:33.200> him<00:30:33.360> that<00:30:33.600> how<00:30:33.840> much<00:30:34.000> money<00:30:34.240> are<00:30:34.399> you<00:30:34.559> investing<00:30:34.960> in<00:30:35.200> consciousness

00:30:35.840 --> 00:30:42.559
and<00:30:36.080> then<00:30:36.159> the<00:30:36.320> AI<00:30:36.559> pioneer<00:30:36.960> said<00:30:37.200> actually<00:30:37.440> all<00:30:37.600> of<00:30:37.679> it<00:30:37.919> billions<00:30:38.240> of<00:30:38.399> dollars<00:30:38.720> because<00:30:38.960> what<00:30:39.120> we're<00:30:39.360> trying<00:30:39.520> to<00:30:39.600> do<00:30:39.760> with<00:30:39.919> AI<00:30:40.720> through<00:30:41.039> science<00:30:41.360> is<00:30:41.840> essentially<00:30:42.159> explore

00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:49.679
what<00:30:42.799> consciousness<00:30:43.279> is<00:30:43.679> create<00:30:44.000> that<00:30:44.240> mind<00:30:45.200> and<00:30:45.440> if<00:30:45.679> consciousness<00:30:46.159> could<00:30:46.399> then<00:30:46.559> reflect<00:30:47.120> then<00:30:47.360> that's<00:30:47.600> what<00:30:47.840> makes<00:30:48.080> AI<00:30:49.120> conscious.

00:30:49.679 --> 00:30:53.440
Right.<00:30:50.000> I<00:30:50.240> don't<00:30:50.320> know<00:30:50.399> what<00:30:50.559> your<00:30:50.799> thoughts<00:30:51.039> on<00:30:51.200> that<00:30:51.440> is.

00:30:53.440 --> 00:31:01.760
What<00:30:53.600> did<00:30:54.080> what<00:30:54.240> did<00:30:54.399> Swami<00:30:55.120> uh<00:30:55.440> I<00:30:55.600> think<00:30:55.679> that<00:30:55.919> whole<00:30:56.080> debate<00:30:56.320> of<00:30:56.480> whether<00:30:57.039> AI<00:30:57.520> can<00:30:57.679> be<00:30:57.840> conscious<00:30:58.240> or<00:30:58.480> not<00:30:58.960> is<00:30:59.279> something<00:30:59.520> that's<00:30:59.840> that<00:31:00.159> he's<00:31:00.480> been<00:31:00.640> also<00:31:01.039> asked<00:31:01.360> several

00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:11.120
times<00:31:02.559> and<00:31:03.440> I<00:31:03.679> I<00:31:03.840> guess<00:31:04.000> what<00:31:04.240> he<00:31:04.399> mentioned<00:31:04.720> was<00:31:04.960> that<00:31:05.600> in<00:31:06.000> one<00:31:06.240> perspective<00:31:07.279> essentially<00:31:07.679> right<00:31:07.840> what<00:31:08.080> you're<00:31:08.320> saying<00:31:08.480> that<00:31:08.720> if<00:31:08.960> consciousness<00:31:09.440> is<00:31:09.679> fundamental<00:31:10.799> and

00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:19.279
just<00:31:11.360> like<00:31:11.520> we're<00:31:11.840> wearing<00:31:12.080> these<00:31:12.399> headsets<00:31:12.799> or<00:31:13.039> if<00:31:13.120> we<00:31:13.279> say<00:31:13.440> we're<00:31:13.679> individual<00:31:14.240> minds<00:31:15.200> consciousness<00:31:16.000> can<00:31:16.320> then<00:31:17.200> kind<00:31:17.440> of<00:31:17.679> reflect<00:31:18.080> and<00:31:18.320> then<00:31:18.480> that<00:31:18.799> that's<00:31:19.120> what

00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:26.399
makes<00:31:19.440> us<00:31:19.679> sentient<00:31:20.159> beings.<00:31:21.039> So<00:31:21.360> those<00:31:21.679> AI<00:31:22.080> pioneers<00:31:22.559> are<00:31:22.720> saying<00:31:22.799> that<00:31:23.039> what<00:31:23.200> we're<00:31:23.440> creating<00:31:23.679> through<00:31:23.840> artificial<00:31:24.320> intelligence<00:31:24.960> is<00:31:25.440> somewhat<00:31:25.760> of<00:31:25.919> a<00:31:26.080> mind.

00:31:26.399 --> 00:31:31.840
It's<00:31:26.480> the<00:31:26.720> smartest<00:31:27.039> mind<00:31:27.279> that<00:31:27.520> anyone<00:31:27.919> can<00:31:28.080> have<00:31:28.559> and<00:31:28.799> in<00:31:28.960> that<00:31:29.120> sense<00:31:29.360> it<00:31:29.600> can<00:31:29.760> be<00:31:30.000> conscious.

00:31:31.840 --> 00:31:38.320
Okay.<00:31:32.240> Very<00:31:32.480> good.<00:31:32.799> So<00:31:33.200> my<00:31:33.440> my<00:31:33.760> attitude<00:31:34.720> there<00:31:34.960> are<00:31:35.200> two<00:31:35.760> two<00:31:36.240> layers<00:31:36.320> to<00:31:36.480> this<00:31:36.720> or<00:31:37.120> or<00:31:37.360> more.

00:31:38.320 --> 00:31:48.880
the<00:31:38.559> the<00:31:39.039> first<00:31:39.360> layer<00:31:39.600> is<00:31:39.919> to<00:31:40.159> say<00:31:40.320> if<00:31:40.559> you're<00:31:40.960> assuming<00:31:41.840> that<00:31:42.159> somehow<00:31:42.799> a<00:31:44.320> program<00:31:45.200> so<00:31:45.760> some<00:31:46.000> kind<00:31:46.080> of<00:31:46.240> computational<00:31:47.279> structure

00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.480
cause<00:31:49.279> effect<00:31:49.519> structure<00:31:50.880> can<00:31:51.279> give<00:31:51.519> rise<00:31:51.760> to<00:31:51.919> consciousness.

00:31:52.480 --> 00:32:00.559
So<00:31:52.720> have<00:31:52.880> an<00:31:53.039> unconscious<00:31:54.320> substrate<00:31:55.039> it<00:31:55.200> has<00:31:55.440> some<00:31:55.600> kind<00:31:55.760> of<00:31:56.000> causal<00:31:56.480> architecture<00:31:57.039> some<00:31:57.279> functional<00:31:57.840> computational<00:31:58.399> architecture<00:31:59.120> and<00:31:59.360> with<00:31:59.519> the<00:31:59.679> right<00:32:00.000> architecture

00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:05.760
you<00:32:00.799> will<00:32:00.880> get<00:32:01.039> consciousness<00:32:01.519> coming<00:32:01.679> out.<00:32:02.559> Um,<00:32:02.960> my<00:32:03.200> attitude<00:32:03.600> is,<00:32:04.399> "Show<00:32:04.799> me<00:32:04.960> one.

00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:09.679
Show<00:32:06.000> me<00:32:06.240> a<00:32:06.559> functional<00:32:07.600> architecture<00:32:08.159> that<00:32:08.320> gives<00:32:08.480> me<00:32:08.640> the<00:32:08.720> taste<00:32:08.960> of<00:32:09.039> mint."

00:32:09.679 --> 00:32:12.240
Until<00:32:10.000> you<00:32:10.159> can<00:32:10.320> show<00:32:10.399> me<00:32:10.559> one,<00:32:10.880> it's<00:32:11.120> a<00:32:11.279> nice<00:32:11.519> idea.

00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.440
It's<00:32:12.480> not<00:32:12.559> a<00:32:12.720> theory.<00:32:13.200> It's<00:32:13.440> absolutely<00:32:13.760> not<00:32:13.840> a<00:32:14.000> theory<00:32:14.240> until<00:32:14.399> there's<00:32:14.640> something<00:32:14.799> testable.

00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:20.320
Until<00:32:15.679> you<00:32:15.840> can<00:32:15.919> give<00:32:16.000> me<00:32:16.159> a<00:32:16.320> specific<00:32:16.720> experience<00:32:17.279> and<00:32:17.519> your<00:32:17.679> theory<00:32:17.919> of<00:32:18.000> that<00:32:18.159> experience<00:32:18.559> I<00:32:18.640> can<00:32:18.720> go<00:32:18.799> and<00:32:18.960> test<00:32:19.120> and<00:32:19.279> see<00:32:19.360> if<00:32:19.440> you're<00:32:19.600> right<00:32:19.760> or<00:32:19.919> wrong.

00:32:20.320 --> 00:32:28.960
It's<00:32:20.480> not<00:32:20.799> a<00:32:20.960> scientific<00:32:21.440> theory.<00:32:21.760> So<00:32:22.000> there<00:32:22.159> is<00:32:22.320> no<00:32:22.559> scientific<00:32:23.039> theory<00:32:23.440> at<00:32:23.760> all<00:32:24.159> right<00:32:24.399> now<00:32:24.880> that<00:32:25.200> has<00:32:25.519> as<00:32:25.760> this<00:32:26.000> conclusion<00:32:26.720> that<00:32:27.120> consciousness<00:32:27.840> can<00:32:28.080> arise<00:32:28.559> from

00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.039
computation<00:32:29.760> or<00:32:30.080> AI<00:32:30.720> there.

00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:37.519
So<00:32:31.299> at<00:32:31.559> that<00:32:31.819> level<00:32:32.079> until<00:32:32.339> there's<00:32:32.599> a<00:32:32.859> theory<00:32:33.119> as<00:32:33.379> a<00:32:33.639> hard-nosed<00:32:33.899> scientist<00:32:34.159> all<00:32:34.419> I<00:32:34.679> can<00:32:34.939> say<00:32:35.199> is<00:32:35.459> when<00:32:35.719> you<00:32:35.979> have<00:32:36.239> a<00:32:36.499> theory<00:32:36.759> let<00:32:37.019> me<00:32:37.279> know.

00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:41.279
I'd<00:32:37.760> love<00:32:37.919> to<00:32:38.240> love<00:32:38.399> to<00:32:38.559> test<00:32:38.799> it.<00:32:39.120> Give<00:32:39.360> me<00:32:39.440> a<00:32:39.679> specific<00:32:40.080> example<00:32:40.399> that<00:32:40.559> we<00:32:40.720> can<00:32:40.799> go<00:32:40.960> test.

00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.480
This<00:32:41.519> is<00:32:41.679> science.<00:32:42.159> If<00:32:42.320> you<00:32:42.480> want<00:32:42.559> to<00:32:42.640> do<00:32:42.799> philosophy<00:32:43.200> that's<00:32:43.440> perfectly<00:32:43.760> fine<00:32:44.000> too.

00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.960
Um<00:32:44.799> but<00:32:44.960> I'm<00:32:45.120> a<00:32:45.279> scientist<00:32:45.600> and<00:32:45.760> I'm<00:32:45.919> interested<00:32:46.399> you<00:32:46.559> know<00:32:46.640> at<00:32:46.641> least<00:32:46.960> with<00:32:47.200> it<00:32:47.360> my<00:32:47.600> hat<00:32:47.760> right<00:32:47.919> now<00:32:48.080> for<00:32:48.240> this<00:32:48.480> kind<00:32:48.559> of<00:32:48.640> thing.

00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:55.519
I'm<00:32:49.120> a<00:32:49.279> scientist<00:32:49.600> and<00:32:49.840> I<00:32:50.080> I<00:32:50.399> want<00:32:50.559> a<00:32:50.720> hard-nosed<00:32:51.600> theory<00:32:51.840> with<00:32:52.000> a<00:32:52.159> hard-nosed<00:32:52.960> prediction<00:32:53.679> uh<00:32:53.840> on<00:32:54.080> a<00:32:54.320> specific<00:32:54.799> experience.

00:32:55.519 --> 00:33:04.000
So<00:32:56.000> until<00:32:57.039> all<00:32:57.279> this<00:32:57.519> talk<00:32:57.679> about<00:32:57.919> consciousness<00:32:58.960> coming<00:32:59.279> out<00:32:59.440> of<00:32:59.600> AIs<00:33:00.000> and<00:33:00.159> so<00:33:00.399> forth,<00:33:01.200> um<00:33:01.760> there's<00:33:02.000> no<00:33:02.159> theory<00:33:02.480> yet<00:33:02.640> to<00:33:02.880> support<00:33:03.120> it<00:33:03.600> and

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:06.480
no<00:33:04.320> concrete<00:33:04.799> case<00:33:05.360> um<00:33:05.519> at<00:33:05.840> all.

00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:15.039
Now<00:33:06.720> there's<00:33:06.880> a<00:33:07.039> deeper<00:33:07.360> deeper<00:33:07.679> level<00:33:07.919> to<00:33:08.080> look<00:33:08.159> at<00:33:08.320> it<00:33:08.720> um<00:33:08.960> and<00:33:09.200> that<00:33:09.360> is<00:33:09.519> to<00:33:09.760> say

00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:20.000
what<00:33:15.279> are<00:33:15.919> objects<00:33:16.320> in<00:33:16.559> space<00:33:16.799> and<00:33:16.960> time<00:33:18.640> from<00:33:18.880> my<00:33:19.120> point<00:33:19.200> of<00:33:19.360> view.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:25.200
Mhm.<00:33:21.919> These<00:33:22.399> are<00:33:22.559> just<00:33:22.960> icons<00:33:24.080> in<00:33:24.320> an<00:33:24.480> interface,<00:33:25.039> right?

00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:31.039
So<00:33:25.360> if<00:33:25.519> I<00:33:25.679> if<00:33:25.760> you're<00:33:25.919> playing<00:33:26.080> Grand<00:33:26.320> Theft<00:33:26.559> Auto,<00:33:27.120> I<00:33:27.360> see<00:33:27.519> your<00:33:27.760> car,<00:33:28.080> I<00:33:28.240> see<00:33:28.320> your<00:33:28.559> body,<00:33:29.600> I'm<00:33:29.840> not<00:33:30.080> seeing<00:33:30.399> the<00:33:30.640> real<00:33:30.799> you.

00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:36.000
I'm<00:33:31.200> just<00:33:31.360> seeing<00:33:31.919> an<00:33:32.320> icon<00:33:32.559> in<00:33:32.799> an<00:33:32.960> interface<00:33:33.279> like<00:33:33.440> your<00:33:33.600> avatar<00:33:34.080> for<00:33:34.159> example<00:33:34.480> or<00:33:34.720> your<00:33:34.960> car.

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:44.320
And<00:33:36.960> um<00:33:37.039> if<00:33:37.279> I<00:33:37.440> see<00:33:38.000> now,<00:33:38.159> if<00:33:38.320> you<00:33:38.399> look<00:33:38.480> in<00:33:38.720> that<00:33:38.880> context,<00:33:40.480> avatars<00:33:40.960> are<00:33:41.120> just<00:33:41.279> avatars<00:33:43.360> and<00:33:43.840> icons<00:33:44.159> are

00:33:44.320 --> 00:33:52.559
just<00:33:44.559> icons.<00:33:44.880> And<00:33:45.120> so<00:33:45.279> if<00:33:45.519> I<00:33:45.679> see<00:33:46.159> a<00:33:46.480> a<00:33:46.880> person<00:33:47.440> avatar,<00:33:48.240> which<00:33:48.480> is<00:33:48.640> just<00:33:48.799> another<00:33:49.120> icon<00:33:49.360> in<00:33:49.519> the<00:33:49.600> headset,<00:33:50.720> driving<00:33:51.039> a<00:33:51.360> Ferrari,<00:33:52.159> I<00:33:52.399> might

00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:58.240
say,<00:33:52.720> well,<00:33:52.960> you<00:33:53.120> know,<00:33:53.760> the<00:33:54.320> the<00:33:54.799> person's<00:33:55.360> avatar<00:33:55.919> is<00:33:56.240> conscious,<00:33:56.640> but<00:33:56.880> the<00:33:57.039> Ferrari<00:33:57.360> avatar<00:33:57.760> is<00:33:58.000> not.

00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.440
It<00:33:58.399> might<00:33:58.559> say<00:33:58.720> that<00:33:58.880> kind<00:33:59.039> of<00:33:59.120> thing.<00:33:59.440> But<00:33:59.600> if<00:33:59.760> you<00:34:00.000> step<00:34:00.159> back,<00:34:00.399> you<00:34:00.559> might<00:34:00.640> go,<00:34:00.799> well,<00:34:01.039> wait<00:34:01.120> a<00:34:01.200> minute.

00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:10.000
Wait,<00:34:01.600> wait<00:34:01.760> a<00:34:01.840> minute.<00:34:02.640> Both<00:34:03.039> ic<00:34:03.360> both<00:34:03.919> the<00:34:04.320> avatar<00:34:04.799> of<00:34:04.880> the<00:34:05.039> person<00:34:05.279> and<00:34:05.679> the<00:34:06.080> icon<00:34:06.399> of<00:34:06.559> the<00:34:06.880> Ferrari,<00:34:07.600> they're<00:34:07.840> just<00:34:08.560> symbols<00:34:08.960> inside<00:34:09.440> the

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.359
headset.<00:34:10.639> So<00:34:10.960> in<00:34:11.200> some<00:34:11.440> sense,<00:34:12.320> they're<00:34:12.639> both<00:34:12.879> unconscious.

00:34:13.359 --> 00:34:15.200
They're<00:34:13.599> they're<00:34:13.919> they're<00:34:14.159> not<00:34:14.240> they're<00:34:14.480> not<00:34:14.639> conscious<00:34:14.879> at<00:34:15.040> all.

00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:17.440
They're<00:34:15.359> just<00:34:15.599> in<00:34:15.760> fact<00:34:15.919> neither<00:34:16.159> of<00:34:16.240> them<00:34:16.399> exists<00:34:16.639> when<00:34:16.879> you<00:34:16.960> don't<00:34:17.119> look.

00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:23.679
So<00:34:17.760> if<00:34:18.000> I'm<00:34:18.240> looking<00:34:18.399> at<00:34:18.560> someone<00:34:18.879> driving<00:34:19.200> a<00:34:19.359> car,<00:34:19.679> you<00:34:19.839> know,<00:34:20.079> so<00:34:20.320> I<00:34:20.480> see<00:34:20.639> an<00:34:20.800> avatar<00:34:21.200> of<00:34:21.359> somebody<00:34:21.599> driving<00:34:21.919> a<00:34:22.079> car<00:34:22.240> in<00:34:22.480> Grand<00:34:22.639> Theft<00:34:22.960> Auto.

00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:26.960
If<00:34:23.839> I<00:34:24.000> look<00:34:24.159> away,<00:34:24.960> the<00:34:25.200> car<00:34:25.359> is<00:34:25.520> gone<00:34:25.679> and<00:34:25.839> so<00:34:26.000> is<00:34:26.159> the<00:34:26.320> avatar.

00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.599
So<00:34:27.200> in<00:34:27.440> some<00:34:27.599> sense,<00:34:28.000> there's<00:34:28.240> nothing<00:34:28.399> that<00:34:28.639> could<00:34:28.800> create<00:34:29.040> consciousness<00:34:29.440> there.

00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:34.240
And<00:34:29.760> there's<00:34:30.000> there's<00:34:30.320> nothing<00:34:30.480> there.<00:34:31.119> Those<00:34:31.359> are<00:34:31.520> just<00:34:31.839> ephemeral<00:34:32.480> icons<00:34:32.720> that<00:34:32.879> I'm<00:34:33.040> creating<00:34:33.280> on<00:34:33.440> the<00:34:33.599> fly.

00:34:34.240 --> 00:34:40.079
So<00:34:34.480> now<00:34:34.720> I<00:34:34.960> pull<00:34:35.200> back<00:34:35.280> and<00:34:35.520> I<00:34:35.599> say<00:34:35.760> to<00:34:35.919> you,<00:34:36.560> here<00:34:36.720> we<00:34:36.960> are<00:34:37.119> in<00:34:37.359> this<00:34:37.599> room<00:34:37.919> sitting<00:34:38.240> here<00:34:38.399> at<00:34:38.560> at<00:34:38.800> this<00:34:39.040> table.

00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:42.560
[laughter]<00:34:40.295> I<00:34:40.511> see<00:34:40.727> I'm<00:34:40.943> saying<00:34:41.159> that<00:34:41.376> this<00:34:41.592> is<00:34:41.808> just<00:34:42.024> a<00:34:42.240> headset.

00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:49.359
So,<00:34:42.800> in<00:34:43.040> some<00:34:43.200> sense,<00:34:43.679> I'm<00:34:43.919> seeing<00:34:44.240> two<00:34:44.480> avatars<00:34:45.440> in<00:34:45.679> front<00:34:45.839> of<00:34:46.159> icons<00:34:46.480> of<00:34:46.639> a<00:34:46.800> of<00:34:47.040> a<00:34:47.200> table<00:34:47.440> with<00:34:48.000> cups<00:34:48.320> and<00:34:48.560> so<00:34:48.720> forth.

00:34:49.359 --> 00:34:54.399
And<00:34:49.520> in<00:34:49.679> some<00:34:49.839> sense,<00:34:50.079> I'm<00:34:50.240> seeing<00:34:50.480> nothing<00:34:50.720> conscious.<00:34:51.280> There's<00:34:51.440> just<00:34:51.599> avatars<00:34:52.079> and<00:34:52.320> icons<00:34:52.639> and<00:34:52.879> it's<00:34:53.040> just<00:34:53.440> there's<00:34:53.760> nothing.

00:34:54.399 --> 00:34:58.160
So,<00:34:54.639> so<00:34:54.879> what<00:34:55.040> go<00:34:55.280> what<00:34:55.440> gives<00:34:55.839> what<00:34:56.240> how<00:34:56.480> do<00:34:56.560> I<00:34:56.800> have<00:34:56.879> a<00:34:57.040> consistent<00:34:57.520> story<00:34:57.760> here?

00:34:58.160 --> 00:35:06.560
And<00:34:58.320> and<00:34:58.640> so<00:34:59.040> you<00:34:59.280> have<00:34:59.359> to<00:34:59.520> step<00:34:59.680> back<00:34:59.839> and<00:35:00.000> say<00:35:00.720> so<00:35:01.520> you<00:35:01.760> have<00:35:01.920> to<00:35:02.079> say<00:35:02.560> that<00:35:02.960> some<00:35:03.839> icons<00:35:04.160> in<00:35:04.400> the<00:35:04.560> interface<00:35:05.520> are<00:35:05.839> giving<00:35:06.079> us<00:35:06.320> a

00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:13.599
deeper<00:35:06.960> insight<00:35:07.440> into<00:35:07.760> the<00:35:08.000> consciousness<00:35:08.640> that's<00:35:09.040> the<00:35:09.280> more<00:35:09.520> fundamental<00:35:10.000> reality<00:35:10.560> and<00:35:10.880> other<00:35:11.119> avatars<00:35:11.680> are<00:35:11.839> giving<00:35:12.000> you<00:35:12.240> less<00:35:12.640> insight.

00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:20.960
So<00:35:13.907> okay<00:35:14.215> [laughter]<00:35:14.523> so<00:35:14.831> I'm<00:35:15.139> always<00:35:15.447> so<00:35:15.755> my<00:35:16.063> point<00:35:16.371> of<00:35:16.680> view<00:35:16.988> is<00:35:17.296> I'm<00:35:17.604> always<00:35:17.912> interacting<00:35:18.220> with<00:35:18.528> consciousness<00:35:18.836> because<00:35:19.144> consciousness<00:35:19.452> is<00:35:19.760> fundamental.

00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.880
So<00:35:21.200> even<00:35:21.359> when<00:35:21.599> I'm<00:35:21.760> interacting<00:35:22.160> with<00:35:22.320> this<00:35:22.640> cup<00:35:23.040> I'm<00:35:23.280> interacting<00:35:23.680> with<00:35:23.839> consciousness.

00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.200
I'm<00:35:25.119> not<00:35:25.280> saying<00:35:25.440> the<00:35:25.599> cup<00:35:25.760> is<00:35:26.000> conscious.<00:35:26.880> Mhm.

00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:32.000
[laughter]<00:35:27.440> So<00:35:27.680> whether<00:35:27.920> it's<00:35:28.160> the<00:35:28.400> cup,<00:35:28.640> whether<00:35:28.880> it's<00:35:29.120> me,<00:35:29.360> whether<00:35:29.600> it's<00:35:29.840> my<00:35:30.080> sister,<00:35:30.320> [laughter]<00:35:30.560> it's<00:35:30.800> it's<00:35:31.040> interacting.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:34.720
[laughter]<00:35:32.274> That's<00:35:32.549> I'm<00:35:32.823> just<00:35:33.097> interacting<00:35:33.371> with<00:35:33.646> with<00:35:33.920> avatars.

00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:37.839
But<00:35:34.880> these<00:35:35.119> avatars<00:35:35.599> are<00:35:35.920> are<00:35:36.160> my<00:35:36.400> way<00:35:36.480> of<00:35:36.640> interacting<00:35:37.040> with<00:35:37.200> consciousness.

00:35:37.839 --> 00:35:45.359
So<00:35:38.128> So<00:35:38.416> when<00:35:38.705> I<00:35:38.994> interact<00:35:39.283> with<00:35:39.571> your<00:35:39.860> avatars,<00:35:40.149> I'm<00:35:40.438> getting<00:35:40.726> much<00:35:41.015> more<00:35:41.304> information<00:35:41.593> about<00:35:41.881> consciousness<00:35:42.170> than<00:35:42.459> I<00:35:42.748> am<00:35:43.036> when<00:35:43.325> I<00:35:43.614> interact<00:35:43.903> with<00:35:44.191> this<00:35:44.480> cup.

00:35:45.359 --> 00:35:50.800
But<00:35:45.599> strictly<00:35:46.079> speaking,<00:35:46.960> the<00:35:47.200> avatar<00:35:47.599> I<00:35:47.839> have<00:35:48.000> of<00:35:48.560> either<00:35:48.880> of<00:35:49.040> you<00:35:49.520> is<00:35:49.839> gone.

00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:54.560
But<00:35:50.960> you're<00:35:51.119> not,<00:35:51.359> you<00:35:51.440> know,<00:35:51.520> your<00:35:51.760> consciousness<00:35:52.079> is<00:35:52.320> gone<00:35:52.480> presumably,<00:35:53.040> but<00:35:53.280> my<00:35:53.440> avatars<00:35:53.839> of<00:35:53.920> you<00:35:54.079> were<00:35:54.240> gone.

00:35:54.560 --> 00:35:59.040
So<00:35:55.040> my<00:35:55.280> avatars<00:35:56.880> What<00:35:57.119> I'm<00:35:57.359> seeing<00:35:57.599> is<00:35:57.839> not<00:35:58.000> conscious.

00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:02.560
What<00:35:59.280> I<00:35:59.440> see<00:35:59.599> the<00:36:00.160> and<00:36:00.320> just<00:36:00.480> like<00:36:00.640> this<00:36:00.880> cup<00:36:01.119> is<00:36:01.359> not<00:36:01.599> conscious.

00:36:02.560 --> 00:36:05.760
The<00:36:02.800> bodies<00:36:03.040> that<00:36:03.280> I'm<00:36:03.440> seeing<00:36:03.680> are<00:36:03.839> just<00:36:04.000> my<00:36:04.240> bodies<00:36:04.480> and<00:36:04.640> those<00:36:04.800> bodies<00:36:05.040> are<00:36:05.200> gone.

00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.880
Like<00:36:06.240> the<00:36:06.480> moon<00:36:06.720> only<00:36:06.960> exists<00:36:07.200> when<00:36:07.440> I<00:36:07.520> perceive<00:36:07.839> it.

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:13.760
My<00:36:09.119> neurons<00:36:09.599> only<00:36:09.760> exist.<00:36:10.079> I'm<00:36:10.240> a<00:36:10.320> neuroscientist,<00:36:10.880> but<00:36:11.119> my<00:36:11.280> neurons<00:36:12.320> are<00:36:12.560> only<00:36:12.800> there<00:36:12.960> when<00:36:13.200> someone<00:36:13.440> looks.

00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:19.200
I<00:36:13.920> have<00:36:14.079> no<00:36:14.240> neurons<00:36:14.640> right<00:36:14.880> now.<00:36:15.680> So,<00:36:17.680> so<00:36:17.839> I<00:36:18.000> have<00:36:18.079> to<00:36:18.160> be<00:36:18.240> a<00:36:18.400> little<00:36:18.480> bit<00:36:18.560> more<00:36:18.720> subtle<00:36:18.960> now.

00:36:19.200 --> 00:36:27.599
Okay.<00:36:19.280> When<00:36:19.440> I<00:36:19.599> talk<00:36:19.680> about<00:36:19.839> what's<00:36:20.160> conscious<00:36:20.480> and<00:36:20.720> what's<00:36:20.960> not,<00:36:21.520> I'm<00:36:21.760> really<00:36:22.000> going<00:36:22.079> to<00:36:22.240> have<00:36:22.320> to<00:36:22.480> say<00:36:24.240> which<00:36:24.720> icons<00:36:26.079> are<00:36:26.320> giving<00:36:26.560> me<00:36:26.720> more<00:36:26.960> insight<00:36:27.280> into

00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:32.800
the<00:36:27.760> conscious<00:36:29.359> consciousness<00:36:30.000> behind<00:36:30.240> the<00:36:30.400> headset<00:36:31.119> and<00:36:31.359> which<00:36:31.680> are<00:36:31.839> giving<00:36:32.079> me<00:36:32.240> less.

00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:36.800
The<00:36:32.960> cup<00:36:33.200> is<00:36:33.359> giving<00:36:33.520> me<00:36:33.680> very<00:36:33.920> little.<00:36:34.320> Your<00:36:34.560> bodies,<00:36:35.040> your<00:36:35.200> faces<00:36:35.520> are<00:36:35.599> giving<00:36:35.839> me<00:36:35.920> a<00:36:36.079> lot<00:36:36.160> more.

00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:42.480
Um,<00:36:37.069> and<00:36:37.339> you<00:36:37.608> know,<00:36:37.878> my<00:36:38.147> cat<00:36:38.417> gives<00:36:38.686> me<00:36:38.956> some,<00:36:39.225> [laughter]<00:36:39.495> a<00:36:39.764> dog<00:36:40.034> gives<00:36:40.303> me<00:36:40.573> some,<00:36:40.842> an<00:36:41.112> ant<00:36:41.381> gives<00:36:41.651> me<00:36:41.920> less.

00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:50.880
and<00:36:42.640> and<00:36:42.800> so<00:36:43.119> so<00:36:43.839> now<00:36:45.520> so<00:36:45.760> you<00:36:45.920> can<00:36:46.000> see<00:36:46.240> I'm<00:36:46.400> not<00:36:46.560> saying<00:36:46.720> that<00:36:47.200> you<00:36:47.599> I'm<00:36:47.839> not<00:36:48.000> asking<00:36:48.240> the<00:36:48.560> question<00:36:49.440> which<00:36:49.839> physical<00:36:50.240> objects<00:36:50.720> could

00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:55.599
possibly<00:36:51.359> give<00:36:51.599> rise<00:36:51.760> to<00:36:52.000> consciousness<00:36:52.720> or<00:36:53.040> which<00:36:53.280> physical<00:36:53.680> objects<00:36:54.000> could<00:36:54.240> give<00:36:54.400> rise<00:36:54.640> to<00:36:54.880> life.

00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.880
I<00:36:55.839> think<00:36:55.920> that's<00:36:56.160> the<00:36:56.320> wrong<00:36:56.560> question.<00:36:57.359> I<00:36:58.720> so<00:36:59.200> so<00:36:59.359> I'll<00:36:59.520> be<00:36:59.680> very<00:36:59.839> very<00:36:59.920> very<00:37:00.400> clear<00:37:00.640> again.

00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:06.320
I<00:37:01.040> think<00:37:01.119> that<00:37:01.359> there's<00:37:01.599> no<00:37:01.760> principal<00:37:02.240> distinction<00:37:02.720> between<00:37:03.520> living<00:37:03.839> and<00:37:04.000> non-living<00:37:05.200> in<00:37:05.440> the<00:37:05.599> world.

00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:08.320
There's<00:37:06.560> no<00:37:06.800> principal<00:37:07.200> distinction<00:37:07.520> that<00:37:07.760> can<00:37:07.839> be<00:37:08.000> made.

00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:14.800
people<00:37:08.560> have<00:37:08.800> tried<00:37:09.119> to<00:37:09.280> make<00:37:09.440> a<00:37:09.599> distinction<00:37:09.920> between<00:37:10.240> what<00:37:11.040> physical<00:37:11.440> systems<00:37:11.760> are<00:37:11.920> alive<00:37:12.160> and<00:37:12.320> which<00:37:12.480> ones<00:37:12.800> are<00:37:12.880> not<00:37:13.040> and<00:37:13.200> it's<00:37:13.280> very<00:37:13.520> very<00:37:13.599> hard<00:37:13.760> when<00:37:14.000> you<00:37:14.079> look

00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:23.200
Sarah<00:37:15.040> Omari<00:37:15.520> has<00:37:15.599> a<00:37:15.760> wonderful<00:37:16.079> book<00:37:16.240> on<00:37:16.400> this<00:37:16.800> um<00:37:17.359> a<00:37:17.599> recent<00:37:17.839> book<00:37:18.000> on<00:37:18.320> the<00:37:18.560> question<00:37:18.800> of<00:37:18.960> life<00:37:19.760> and<00:37:20.079> it's<00:37:20.800> um<00:37:21.839> it's<00:37:22.079> very<00:37:22.320> very<00:37:22.560> difficult<00:37:23.040> and

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and<00:37:23.604> my<00:37:24.008> attitude<00:37:24.412> is<00:37:24.816> the<00:37:25.220> reason<00:37:25.624> it's<00:37:26.028> difficult<00:37:26.432> is<00:37:26.836> because<00:37:27.240> this<00:37:27.644> is<00:37:28.048> all<00:37:28.452> just<00:37:28.856> a<00:37:29.260> headset<00:37:29.664> [laughter]<00:37:30.068> and<00:37:30.472> the<00:37:30.876> headset<00:37:31.280> the

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distinction<00:37:31.839> between<00:37:32.079> living<00:37:32.320> and<00:37:32.480> living<00:37:32.720> and<00:37:32.960> non-living<00:37:33.440> is<00:37:33.599> not<00:37:33.839> principled<00:37:34.880> it's<00:37:35.119> just<00:37:35.280> that<00:37:35.440> your<00:37:35.680> headset<00:37:36.079> gives<00:37:36.320> you<00:37:36.560> more<00:37:36.880> insight<00:37:37.359> into<00:37:38.800> consciousness

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or<00:37:39.760> less<00:37:40.000> insight<00:37:40.480> into<00:37:40.720> consciousness.<00:37:41.599> Um<00:37:42.480> because<00:37:42.720> a<00:37:42.880> headset<00:37:43.280> dumbs<00:37:43.599> things<00:37:43.760> down.

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So<00:37:44.240> you're<00:37:44.400> always<00:37:44.640> interacting<00:37:44.960> with<00:37:45.119> consciousness,<00:37:45.599> but<00:37:45.760> the<00:37:45.920> point<00:37:46.079> of<00:37:46.160> the<00:37:46.240> headset<00:37:46.640> is<00:37:46.800> it's<00:37:46.960> a<00:37:47.119> filter.

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It's<00:37:48.160> dumbing<00:37:48.560> things<00:37:48.720> down.<00:37:49.040> You<00:37:49.200> can't<00:37:49.440> see<00:37:49.599> all<00:37:49.760> of<00:37:49.920> reality.

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So<00:37:50.720> at<00:37:50.960> some<00:37:51.040> point<00:37:51.200> you<00:37:51.359> dumb<00:37:51.599> it<00:37:51.760> down<00:37:51.920> so<00:37:52.160> much<00:37:52.240> that<00:37:52.400> you<00:37:52.560> get<00:37:52.720> very<00:37:52.960> little<00:37:53.200> insight<00:37:53.520> into<00:37:53.680> the<00:37:53.920> consciousness<00:37:54.320> that<00:37:54.480> you're<00:37:54.560> interacting<00:37:54.960> with.

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That's<00:37:55.599> the<00:37:55.760> point<00:37:56.000> of<00:37:56.079> a<00:37:56.320> headset<00:37:56.800> is<00:37:57.040> to<00:37:57.119> dumb<00:37:57.440> things<00:37:57.680> down.

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In<00:37:58.320> the<00:37:58.400> Grand<00:37:58.640> Theft<00:37:58.880> Auto<00:37:59.200> thing,<00:37:59.520> you<00:37:59.680> don't<00:37:59.760> want<00:37:59.920> to<00:38:00.000> see<00:38:00.079> all<00:38:00.240> the<00:38:00.320> bits.

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You<00:38:00.740> don't<00:38:00.920> want<00:38:01.100> to<00:38:01.280> toggle<00:38:01.460> billions<00:38:01.640> of<00:38:01.820> bits<00:38:02.000> per,<00:38:02.180> you<00:38:02.360> know,<00:38:02.540> per<00:38:02.720> second.

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That's<00:38:03.680> too<00:38:03.920> much.<00:38:04.400> So<00:38:04.720> you<00:38:04.960> just<00:38:05.200> don't<00:38:05.359> want<00:38:05.520> to<00:38:05.599> see<00:38:05.760> that<00:38:06.000> stuff.

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And<00:38:06.320> that's<00:38:06.560> what's<00:38:06.800> happening.<00:38:07.200> There's<00:38:07.520> so<00:38:07.680> much<00:38:07.839> consciousness.

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There's<00:38:08.480> an<00:38:08.560> infinite<00:38:08.880> amount<00:38:09.040> of<00:38:09.119> consciousness.<00:38:09.599> You<00:38:09.760> can't<00:38:09.920> deal<00:38:10.079> with<00:38:10.240> it.

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So<00:38:11.119> we<00:38:11.359> dumb<00:38:11.599> it<00:38:11.760> down<00:38:11.839> and<00:38:12.000> we<00:38:12.160> get<00:38:12.320> something<00:38:12.480> like<00:38:12.640> this<00:38:12.800> where<00:38:13.599> consciousness<00:38:14.160> is<00:38:14.480> just<00:38:14.800> not<00:38:15.040> obvious<00:38:15.680> there<00:38:15.920> at<00:38:16.079> all.

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[laughter]<00:38:17.240> So<00:38:17.520> So<00:38:17.800> you<00:38:18.080> can<00:38:18.360> see<00:38:18.640> now<00:38:18.920> your<00:38:19.200> question<00:38:19.480> becomes<00:38:19.760> much<00:38:20.040> more<00:38:20.320> deep.

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[laughter]<00:38:21.919> Could<00:38:22.239> an<00:38:22.560> AI<00:38:22.880> be<00:38:23.200> conscious?

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So<00:38:24.640> now<00:38:24.800> I'm<00:38:25.040> flipping<00:38:25.440> the<00:38:26.400> I'm<00:38:26.720> I'm<00:38:26.960> there's<00:38:27.280> two<00:38:27.440> ways<00:38:27.599> to<00:38:27.760> take<00:38:27.920> that<00:38:28.160> question.

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One<00:38:28.640> is<00:38:29.040> could<00:38:29.599> in<00:38:29.920> principle<00:38:31.200> functional<00:38:32.800> programs<00:38:33.760> be<00:38:34.000> conscious?

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And<00:38:34.800> my<00:38:35.040> answer<00:38:35.200> is<00:38:35.440> I<00:38:35.680> don't<00:38:35.760> think<00:38:35.920> so.<00:38:36.400> Prove<00:38:36.640> me<00:38:36.800> wrong<00:38:36.960> by<00:38:37.200> showing<00:38:37.359> me<00:38:37.520> one.

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Give<00:38:37.920> me<00:38:38.079> a<00:38:38.240> functional<00:38:38.480> program<00:38:38.720> that's<00:38:38.960> the<00:38:39.119> taste<00:38:39.359> of<00:38:39.440> mint<00:38:39.680> and<00:38:40.079> you<00:38:40.080> you<00:38:40.160> know<00:38:40.320> prove<00:38:40.480> me<00:38:40.640> wrong.

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Good<00:38:41.319> luck.<00:38:41.519> [laughter]<00:38:41.719> So<00:38:41.919> that's<00:38:42.119> that's<00:38:42.319> one<00:38:42.519> where<00:38:42.719> I<00:38:42.920> say<00:38:43.120> no<00:38:43.320> AI<00:38:43.520> will<00:38:43.720> not<00:38:43.920> be<00:38:44.120> conscious<00:38:44.320> in<00:38:44.520> that<00:38:44.720> sense.

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But<00:38:45.680> another<00:38:46.079> way<00:38:46.240> of<00:38:46.400> looking<00:38:46.560> at<00:38:46.640> it<00:38:46.800> is<00:38:46.880> to<00:38:47.040> say<00:38:47.200> well<00:38:47.359> could<00:38:47.520> be<00:38:47.680> AI<00:38:48.320> be<00:38:49.839> conscious<00:38:50.240> in<00:38:50.400> the<00:38:50.560> sense<00:38:50.720> that<00:38:50.960> a<00:38:51.119> human<00:38:51.359> body<00:38:51.760> is<00:38:52.079> conscious.

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It's<00:38:52.880> giving<00:38:53.119> me<00:38:53.359> more<00:38:53.680> insight<00:38:54.480> into<00:38:54.800> the<00:38:55.040> nature<00:38:55.280> of<00:38:55.440> consciousness<00:38:56.000> behind<00:38:56.320> the<00:38:56.560> headset.

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And<00:38:57.821> there<00:38:58.123> I<00:38:58.424> say<00:38:58.725> now<00:38:59.027> possibly<00:38:59.328> [laughter]<00:38:59.629> okay<00:38:59.931> [laughter]<00:39:00.232> my<00:39:00.533> so<00:39:00.835> but<00:39:01.136> we<00:39:01.437> now<00:39:01.739> we<00:39:02.040> have<00:39:02.341> to<00:39:02.643> be<00:39:02.944> careful<00:39:03.245> because<00:39:03.547> you<00:39:03.848> know<00:39:04.149> for<00:39:04.451> example<00:39:04.752> one<00:39:05.053> of<00:39:05.355> the<00:39:05.656> first<00:39:05.957> AIs<00:39:06.259> [laughter]<00:39:06.560> um

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silly<00:39:07.972> simple<00:39:08.265> AIS<00:39:08.557> Joseph<00:39:08.849> Weisenbaum<00:39:09.142> he<00:39:09.434> had<00:39:09.726> this<00:39:10.018> Eliza<00:39:10.311> program<00:39:10.603> you<00:39:10.895> probably<00:39:11.188> have<00:39:11.480> heard<00:39:11.772> of<00:39:12.065> heard<00:39:12.357> of<00:39:12.649> it<00:39:12.942> right<00:39:13.234> [laughter]<00:39:13.526> and<00:39:13.818> it's<00:39:14.111> you<00:39:14.403> know<00:39:14.695> a<00:39:14.988> couple<00:39:15.280> pages

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of<00:39:15.760> code<00:39:16.240> so<00:39:16.480> it's<00:39:16.640> not<00:39:16.800> an<00:39:16.960> advanced<00:39:17.359> AI<00:39:18.160> but<00:39:18.400> it<00:39:18.560> it<00:39:18.800> and<00:39:19.040> it<00:39:19.119> was<00:39:19.280> you<00:39:19.520> just<00:39:19.839> little<00:39:20.000> tricks<00:39:20.320> about<00:39:20.640> you<00:39:20.880> someone<00:39:21.200> says<00:39:21.440> something<00:39:21.599> to<00:39:21.760> you<00:39:22.160> and<00:39:22.400> it<00:39:22.480> and<00:39:22.800> you<00:39:23.359> sort<00:39:23.599> of

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rephrase<00:39:24.480> what<00:39:24.640> they<00:39:24.800> said<00:39:24.960> and<00:39:25.280> put<00:39:25.440> it<00:39:25.599> back<00:39:25.680> to<00:39:25.839> them<00:39:26.079> right<00:39:26.480> and<00:39:26.640> and<00:39:27.040> He<00:39:27.359> put<00:39:27.520> it<00:39:27.680> out<00:39:27.760> as<00:39:27.920> like<00:39:28.000> a<00:39:28.079> little<00:39:28.240> therapist<00:39:28.560> that<00:39:28.720> was<00:39:28.880> talking<00:39:29.040> to<00:39:29.200> you.

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And<00:39:29.760> some<00:39:30.000> people<00:39:30.240> got<00:39:30.400> pulled<00:39:30.720> in.<00:39:31.119> Here's<00:39:31.359> two<00:39:31.520> pages<00:39:31.760> of<00:39:31.920> code<00:39:32.000> and<00:39:32.160> they're<00:39:32.320> pouring<00:39:32.560> out<00:39:32.720> their<00:39:32.880> heart<00:39:33.040> to<00:39:33.200> it<00:39:33.440> and<00:39:33.680> in<00:39:33.920> the<00:39:34.079> first<00:39:34.240> time<00:39:34.320> in<00:39:34.480> their<00:39:34.640> life<00:39:34.720> they<00:39:34.960> feel

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like<00:39:35.280> someone<00:39:35.920> understands<00:39:36.400> them.<00:39:37.040> So,<00:39:37.440> so<00:39:37.760> you<00:39:37.920> can<00:39:38.079> see<00:39:38.560> that<00:39:38.800> you<00:39:39.040> could<00:39:39.119> have<00:39:39.280> two<00:39:39.520> pages<00:39:39.760> of<00:39:39.920> code<00:39:40.160> that<00:39:40.480> probably<00:39:40.720> no<00:39:40.960> one<00:39:41.040> would<00:39:41.280> say<00:39:41.520> no<00:39:41.760> that<00:39:41.920> that's<00:39:42.079> that's

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not<00:39:42.800> conscious.<00:39:43.200> No,<00:39:43.440> no.<00:39:43.680> And<00:39:43.920> yet<00:39:44.079> people<00:39:44.400> get<00:39:44.560> fooled<00:39:45.119> and<00:39:45.359> they're<00:39:45.520> pouring<00:39:45.839> out<00:39:46.000> their<00:39:46.160> hearts<00:39:46.320> and<00:39:46.480> they<00:39:46.640> feel<00:39:46.720> like<00:39:46.960> for<00:39:47.119> the<00:39:47.280> first<00:39:47.440> time<00:39:47.680> someone<00:39:48.000> understands

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them.<00:39:49.280> So<00:39:49.520> now<00:39:49.680> we<00:39:49.760> have<00:39:49.920> to<00:39:50.000> be<00:39:50.160> you<00:39:50.320> can<00:39:50.400> see<00:39:50.800> this<00:39:50.960> this<00:39:51.280> takes<00:39:51.520> the<00:39:51.680> AI<00:39:52.000> question<00:39:52.320> and<00:39:52.640> consciousness<00:39:53.040> to<00:39:53.200> a<00:39:53.599> much<00:39:53.839> deeper<00:39:54.160> level.

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Now<00:39:55.520> we<00:39:55.760> have<00:39:55.839> to<00:39:56.000> make<00:39:56.800> clear<00:39:57.200> judgments<00:39:57.680> about<00:39:58.079> okay<00:39:58.480> what<00:39:58.720> do<00:39:58.880> we<00:39:59.119> mean<00:39:59.440> now<00:40:00.000> if<00:40:00.240> we're<00:40:00.480> saying<00:40:01.280> we're<00:40:01.599> we're<00:40:01.920> dropping<00:40:02.160> the<00:40:02.320> idea<00:40:02.480> that<00:40:02.720> algorithms<00:40:03.280> give

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rise<00:40:03.760> to<00:40:03.920> consciousness<00:40:04.560> you<00:40:04.640> know<00:40:04.800> we're<00:40:04.960> not<00:40:05.200> we're<00:40:05.440> not<00:40:05.599> playing<00:40:05.760> that<00:40:05.920> game<00:40:06.240> good<00:40:06.400> luck<00:40:06.640> trying<00:40:07.200> but<00:40:07.359> if<00:40:07.440> you<00:40:07.520> want<00:40:07.680> to<00:40:07.760> play<00:40:07.839> that<00:40:08.000> game<00:40:08.320> give<00:40:08.480> me<00:40:08.560> one<00:40:08.880> give<00:40:08.960> me<00:40:09.119> a

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specific<00:40:09.627> one<00:40:09.973> now<00:40:10.320> I'm<00:40:10.667> playing<00:40:11.013> a<00:40:11.360> different<00:40:11.707> game<00:40:12.053> [laughter]<00:40:12.400> how<00:40:12.747> much<00:40:13.093> insight<00:40:13.440> into<00:40:13.787> the<00:40:14.133> pre-existing<00:40:14.480> consciousness<00:40:14.827> does<00:40:15.173> this<00:40:15.520> computer<00:40:15.867> program<00:40:16.213> actually<00:40:16.560> give

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me<00:40:17.839> that<00:40:18.000> Joseph<00:40:18.320> Weisenbaum's<00:40:18.960> Eliza<00:40:19.520> program<00:40:20.000> gives<00:40:20.240> me<00:40:20.480> no<00:40:20.800> insight<00:40:21.200> into<00:40:21.440> the<00:40:21.599> nature<00:40:21.839> of<00:40:22.079> consciousness<00:40:23.280> but<00:40:23.440> I<00:40:24.000> cannot<00:40:24.400> not<00:40:25.839> say

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a<00:40:27.119> priori<00:40:27.839> that<00:40:28.160> there<00:40:28.320> couldn't<00:40:28.640> be<00:40:29.119> a<00:40:29.440> much<00:40:29.599> more<00:40:29.839> complicated<00:40:30.240> AI<00:40:30.720> that<00:40:31.040> could<00:40:31.280> somehow<00:40:33.359> genuinely<00:40:34.000> give<00:40:34.240> me<00:40:34.880> deeper

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insights<00:40:35.599> into<00:40:35.920> the<00:40:36.079> consciousness<00:40:36.480> that<00:40:36.720> I'm<00:40:36.880> claiming<00:40:37.119> is<00:40:37.280> there<00:40:37.520> behind<00:40:37.760> the<00:40:38.000> headset.

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[laughter]<00:40:39.703> So<00:40:39.966> what<00:40:40.230> we<00:40:40.493> have<00:40:40.756> to<00:40:41.019> do<00:40:41.282> and<00:40:41.546> I<00:40:41.809> don't<00:40:42.072> have<00:40:42.335> a<00:40:42.598> theory<00:40:42.862> of<00:40:43.125> this<00:40:43.388> yet<00:40:43.651> but<00:40:43.914> we'd<00:40:44.177> have<00:40:44.441> to<00:40:44.704> understand<00:40:44.967> um<00:40:45.230> this<00:40:45.493> notion<00:40:45.757> of<00:40:46.020> how<00:40:46.283> much<00:40:46.546> an<00:40:46.809> a<00:40:47.073> symbol<00:40:47.336> an<00:40:47.599> icon

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in<00:40:47.920> the<00:40:48.079> headset<00:40:48.720> is<00:40:49.040> expressing<00:40:50.000> the<00:40:50.560> the<00:40:51.599> nature<00:40:51.920> of<00:40:52.000> the<00:40:52.160> consciousness<00:40:52.640> behind<00:40:52.960> it.

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In<00:40:56.160> the<00:40:56.240> case<00:40:56.400> of<00:40:56.480> human<00:40:56.720> body,<00:40:57.119> quite<00:40:57.280> a<00:40:57.440> bit<00:40:57.599> more.

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In<00:40:58.319> the<00:40:58.400> case<00:40:58.480> of<00:40:58.560> an<00:40:58.720> ant,<00:40:59.040> something<00:40:59.200> in<00:40:59.359> between.<00:41:00.079> So<00:41:00.240> we<00:41:00.480> have<00:41:00.640> some<00:41:01.040> intuitions<00:41:01.680> about<00:41:01.920> about<00:41:02.240> that.

00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:11.040
[laughter]<00:41:03.188> Mhm.<00:41:03.495> [laughter]<00:41:03.803> Um<00:41:04.111> and<00:41:04.418> so<00:41:04.726> I<00:41:05.034> think<00:41:05.342> we<00:41:05.649> do<00:41:05.957> need<00:41:06.265> a<00:41:06.572> theory<00:41:06.880> in<00:41:07.188> my<00:41:07.495> framework<00:41:07.803> that<00:41:08.111> is<00:41:08.418> saying,<00:41:08.726> okay,<00:41:09.034> how<00:41:09.342> much<00:41:09.649> effectively<00:41:09.957> it's<00:41:10.265> a<00:41:10.572> theory<00:41:10.880> of

00:41:11.040 --> 00:41:13.359
how<00:41:11.280> much<00:41:11.359> is<00:41:11.520> the<00:41:11.680> headset<00:41:12.160> dumbing<00:41:12.560> things<00:41:12.800> down?

00:41:13.359 --> 00:41:21.599
It's<00:41:13.696> always<00:41:14.032> consciousness<00:41:14.369> that<00:41:14.706> I'm<00:41:15.043> dealing<00:41:15.379> with,<00:41:15.716> [laughter]<00:41:16.053> but<00:41:16.389> I'm<00:41:16.726> always<00:41:17.063> dumbing<00:41:17.400> it<00:41:17.736> down<00:41:18.073> to<00:41:18.410> sometimes<00:41:18.746> to<00:41:19.083> such<00:41:19.420> a<00:41:19.756> great<00:41:20.093> degree<00:41:20.430> that<00:41:20.767> I<00:41:21.103> call<00:41:21.440> it

00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:23.440
inanimate.<00:41:22.079> It's<00:41:22.240> just<00:41:22.400> a<00:41:22.560> table.<00:41:22.880> It's<00:41:23.119> dead.

00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:27.839
There's<00:41:23.680> no<00:41:23.839> consciousness<00:41:24.319> there.<00:41:24.640> In<00:41:24.800> other<00:41:25.040> cases<00:41:25.280> with<00:41:25.520> the<00:41:25.599> human<00:41:25.839> being,<00:41:26.400> I<00:41:26.640> I'm<00:41:26.880> going<00:41:26.960> to<00:41:27.040> be<00:41:27.119> very<00:41:27.359> very<00:41:27.599> careful.

00:41:27.839 --> 00:41:34.640
I'm<00:41:28.000> not<00:41:28.160> going<00:41:28.240> to<00:41:28.400> do<00:41:28.560> anything<00:41:28.800> that<00:41:29.040> might<00:41:29.200> hurt<00:41:29.440> your<00:41:29.760> body<00:41:30.160> because<00:41:30.720> I'm<00:41:31.040> I<00:41:31.359> could<00:41:31.680> I<00:41:31.920> could<00:41:32.079> pound<00:41:32.319> the<00:41:32.480> table,<00:41:32.720> but<00:41:32.880> I'm<00:41:33.040> not<00:41:33.119> going<00:41:33.200> to<00:41:33.280> pound<00:41:33.599> you<00:41:33.920> because<00:41:34.480> you

00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:42.960
know<00:41:35.040> I<00:41:35.359> I<00:41:35.680> think<00:41:35.839> the<00:41:36.160> table<00:41:37.520> somehow<00:41:38.240> I<00:41:38.560> what<00:41:38.800> I<00:41:38.960> can<00:41:39.119> do<00:41:39.280> to<00:41:39.440> the<00:41:39.599> table<00:41:40.400> does<00:41:40.640> not<00:41:40.800> affect<00:41:41.280> consciousness<00:41:42.720> the

00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:46.720
way<00:41:43.200> if<00:41:43.440> I<00:41:43.599> did<00:41:43.760> the<00:41:43.920> same<00:41:44.000> thing<00:41:44.160> to<00:41:44.319> your<00:41:44.560> body<00:41:45.200> could<00:41:45.440> affect<00:41:45.760> consciousness.

00:41:46.720 --> 00:41:53.599
So<00:41:46.960> that's<00:41:47.200> the<00:41:47.440> way<00:41:47.599> we<00:41:47.920> I<00:41:48.240> have<00:41:48.400> to<00:41:48.560> think<00:41:49.119> about<00:41:49.359> this<00:41:49.599> AI<00:41:49.920> question<00:41:50.240> and<00:41:50.400> I<00:41:50.480> I<00:41:50.720> don't<00:41:50.960> I<00:41:51.200> don't<00:41:51.440> see<00:41:51.599> anybody<00:41:51.920> else<00:41:52.079> thinking<00:41:52.319> about<00:41:52.480> the<00:41:52.640> AI<00:41:52.960> question<00:41:53.280> this<00:41:53.440> way.

00:41:53.599 --> 00:42:00.560
I<00:41:53.760> think<00:41:54.079> most<00:41:54.400> people<00:41:54.560> are<00:41:54.720> thinking<00:41:54.880> about<00:41:54.960> the<00:41:55.119> AI<00:41:55.440> question<00:41:55.599> in<00:41:55.760> the<00:41:55.839> first<00:41:56.000> way<00:41:56.400> namely<00:41:56.800> how<00:41:56.960> could<00:41:57.200> computations<00:41:58.000> and<00:41:58.319> and<00:41:58.560> functions<00:41:58.880> and<00:41:59.119> so<00:41:59.280> forth<00:42:00.000> hardware

00:42:00.560 --> 00:42:08.800
give<00:42:00.880> rise<00:42:01.119> to<00:42:01.359> conscious<00:42:01.760> experiences<00:42:02.560> good<00:42:02.800> luck<00:42:03.200> it<00:42:03.440> won't<00:42:03.920> I<00:42:04.160> think<00:42:04.720> but<00:42:04.880> the<00:42:05.119> there's<00:42:05.440> the<00:42:05.599> deeper<00:42:06.000> question<00:42:06.480> if<00:42:06.800> consciousness<00:42:07.200> is<00:42:07.359> fundamental<00:42:07.839> and<00:42:08.000> AI<00:42:08.319> is<00:42:08.560> a

00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:17.359
particular<00:42:10.079> icon<00:42:10.720> on<00:42:10.960> the<00:42:11.119> interface<00:42:12.240> what<00:42:12.480> would<00:42:12.640> it<00:42:12.800> mean<00:42:13.040> for<00:42:13.280> that<00:42:13.520> AI<00:42:14.240> icon<00:42:15.280> to<00:42:15.599> actually<00:42:15.920> give<00:42:16.079> us<00:42:16.240> some<00:42:16.560> genuine<00:42:16.960> insight

00:42:17.359 --> 00:42:24.480
into<00:42:17.760> consciousness<00:42:19.040> there<00:42:19.280> I<00:42:19.520> cannot<00:42:19.760> rule<00:42:19.920> out<00:42:20.079> that<00:42:20.240> that's<00:42:20.560> possible<00:42:21.760> but<00:42:22.000> now<00:42:22.240> we<00:42:22.400> need<00:42:22.480> a<00:42:22.640> theory<00:42:22.880> that<00:42:23.040> I<00:42:23.119> don't<00:42:23.200> have<00:42:23.359> to<00:42:23.440> offer<00:42:23.760> right<00:42:23.920> now.

00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:30.240
It's<00:42:24.720> really,<00:42:24.960> as<00:42:25.119> you<00:42:25.200> can<00:42:25.280> see,<00:42:25.440> there'<00:42:25.599> be<00:42:25.680> a<00:42:25.839> really<00:42:26.000> interesting<00:42:26.400> theory<00:42:27.200> and<00:42:27.440> I'm<00:42:27.599> going<00:42:27.680> to<00:42:27.760> need<00:42:27.920> it<00:42:28.079> anyway<00:42:28.319> because<00:42:28.560> right<00:42:28.720> now<00:42:28.880> I<00:42:29.040> do<00:42:29.200> believe<00:42:29.359> that<00:42:29.599> your<00:42:29.839> icons,

00:42:30.240 --> 00:42:35.280
your<00:42:30.319> your<00:42:30.560> avatars<00:42:31.280> are<00:42:31.520> giving<00:42:31.760> me<00:42:31.920> insight<00:42:32.160> into<00:42:32.480> consciousness<00:42:32.880> that<00:42:33.040> I<00:42:33.200> should<00:42:33.359> I<00:42:33.520> should<00:42:33.839> absolutely<00:42:34.400> respect.

00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:42.400
Whereas<00:42:35.760> this,<00:42:36.160> if<00:42:36.400> I<00:42:36.560> crushed<00:42:36.880> this<00:42:37.040> cup,<00:42:37.280> I<00:42:37.440> mean,<00:42:37.599> I<00:42:37.760> would<00:42:38.240> I<00:42:38.560> would<00:42:38.720> owe<00:42:38.800> somebody<00:42:39.280> some<00:42:39.520> money,<00:42:39.920> but<00:42:40.160> but<00:42:40.400> other<00:42:40.560> than<00:42:40.640> that,<00:42:40.880> I<00:42:41.040> I<00:42:41.359> wouldn't,<00:42:41.680> you<00:42:41.839> know,<00:42:42.000> no<00:42:42.240> one's

00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:44.800
going<00:42:42.480> to<00:42:42.640> take<00:42:42.720> me<00:42:42.880> to<00:42:43.119> jail<00:42:43.280> for<00:42:43.440> that.<00:42:43.599> I'm<00:42:43.760> not<00:42:43.920> hurting<00:42:44.079> anybody.

00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:52.880
So,<00:42:45.280> how<00:42:45.440> do<00:42:45.599> we<00:42:45.839> understand<00:42:46.800> that<00:42:48.160> relationship<00:42:48.880> between<00:42:49.440> icons<00:42:50.000> and<00:42:50.319> their<00:42:50.720> impact<00:42:51.440> on<00:42:51.760> consciousness?

00:42:52.880 --> 00:43:01.599
Some<00:42:53.280> icons<00:42:53.839> allow<00:42:54.240> me<00:42:54.640> we<00:42:54.960> think<00:42:55.920> to<00:42:56.240> actually<00:42:56.560> have<00:42:57.280> potentially<00:42:58.480> negative<00:42:59.040> and<00:42:59.920> painful<00:43:00.319> effects<00:43:00.640> on<00:43:00.880> consciousness

00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:10.160
and<00:43:01.839> others<00:43:02.240> we<00:43:02.480> think<00:43:02.800> like<00:43:03.040> this<00:43:03.280> cup<00:43:03.760> if<00:43:03.920> I<00:43:04.160> smash<00:43:04.400> the<00:43:04.640> cup<00:43:05.040> it's<00:43:05.280> it's<00:43:06.079> we<00:43:06.560> our<00:43:06.800> intuitions<00:43:07.359> is<00:43:08.000> nothing<00:43:08.400> is<00:43:08.720> feeling<00:43:08.960> any<00:43:09.280> pain<00:43:09.920> now

00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:15.839
it<00:43:10.319> was<00:43:10.480> interesting<00:43:10.720> because<00:43:10.960> I'm<00:43:11.040> I'm<00:43:11.280> claiming<00:43:11.520> I'm<00:43:11.760> still<00:43:11.920> interacting<00:43:12.240> with<00:43:12.400> conscious<00:43:12.720> so<00:43:13.040> I<00:43:13.280> am<00:43:13.440> doing<00:43:13.599> something<00:43:13.839> to<00:43:14.079> consciousness<00:43:14.800> somewhere<00:43:15.280> but<00:43:15.520> whatever

00:43:15.839 --> 00:43:24.800
I'm<00:43:16.160> doing<00:43:16.720> is<00:43:17.040> not<00:43:19.280> painful<00:43:20.000> and<00:43:20.240> you<00:43:20.400> can<00:43:20.480> see<00:43:20.560> I<00:43:20.800> do<00:43:20.960> need<00:43:21.200> a<00:43:21.440> deeper<00:43:21.760> theory<00:43:22.079> about<00:43:22.560> how<00:43:22.800> the<00:43:23.040> interface<00:43:23.440> is<00:43:23.839> designed.

00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:26.800
So<00:43:25.119> ultimately<00:43:25.520> we<00:43:25.760> can't<00:43:25.920> answer<00:43:26.160> my<00:43:26.400> question.

00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.599
So<00:43:26.960> I'm<00:43:27.119> not<00:43:27.280> saying<00:43:27.680> that<00:43:27.920> it's<00:43:28.160> in<00:43:28.319> principle<00:43:28.640> impossible.

00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:35.040
What<00:43:29.839> we<00:43:30.000> have<00:43:30.079> to<00:43:30.240> do<00:43:30.640> is<00:43:30.960> to<00:43:31.599> have<00:43:31.760> a<00:43:32.000> model<00:43:32.240> of<00:43:33.040> observers<00:43:34.000> or<00:43:34.240> conscious<00:43:34.640> observers.

00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:39.040
If<00:43:35.119> you<00:43:35.200> if<00:43:35.359> you<00:43:35.440> don't<00:43:35.520> like<00:43:35.760> consciousness,<00:43:36.160> just<00:43:36.319> have<00:43:36.480> a<00:43:36.800> what<00:43:37.040> we<00:43:37.200> need<00:43:37.280> for<00:43:37.440> science<00:43:37.680> is<00:43:37.839> a<00:43:38.000> model<00:43:38.079> of<00:43:38.240> observers.

00:43:39.040 --> 00:43:46.640
[laughter]<00:43:39.360> Okay,<00:43:39.680> [laughter]<00:43:40.000> drop<00:43:40.320> consciousness.<00:43:40.640> But<00:43:40.960> if<00:43:41.280> you're<00:43:41.600> interested<00:43:41.920> in<00:43:42.240> consciousness,<00:43:42.560> have<00:43:42.879> a<00:43:43.199> model<00:43:43.519> of<00:43:43.839> conscious<00:43:44.159> observers<00:43:44.479> and<00:43:44.799> then<00:43:45.119> show<00:43:45.439> from<00:43:45.759> that<00:43:46.079> mathematical

00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:53.599
model<00:43:46.960> how<00:43:47.119> we<00:43:47.280> would<00:43:47.440> build<00:43:47.680> this<00:43:48.000> particular<00:43:48.400> 3D<00:43:48.800> headset<00:43:49.440> as<00:43:49.760> one<00:43:49.920> of<00:43:50.079> an<00:43:50.240> infinite<00:43:50.560> number<00:43:50.720> of<00:43:50.880> headsets<00:43:51.280> that<00:43:51.520> consciousness<00:43:52.000> or<00:43:52.240> observers<00:43:52.800> could<00:43:52.960> use.

00:43:53.599 --> 00:44:02.079
And<00:43:53.920> then<00:43:54.079> once<00:43:54.319> you've<00:43:54.560> built<00:43:54.800> that<00:43:54.960> headset,<00:43:56.720> you<00:43:57.040> can<00:43:57.200> then<00:43:57.680> look<00:43:57.839> at<00:43:58.000> it<00:43:58.079> and<00:43:58.240> say,<00:43:58.400> "Okay,<00:43:58.960> now<00:43:59.200> in<00:43:59.760> with<00:44:00.079> that<00:44:01.040> mathematically<00:44:01.680> precise

00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:10.400
model<00:44:02.240> of<00:44:02.480> that<00:44:02.640> headset,<00:44:03.440> now<00:44:03.680> you<00:44:03.920> can<00:44:04.079> tell<00:44:04.240> me<00:44:04.480> why<00:44:04.960> this<00:44:05.280> cup<00:44:05.680> in<00:44:05.920> that<00:44:06.079> headset,<00:44:06.880> whatever<00:44:07.200> I<00:44:07.359> do<00:44:07.520> to<00:44:07.680> this<00:44:07.839> cup,<00:44:08.400> what<00:44:08.640> I'm<00:44:08.880> doing<00:44:09.200> beyond<00:44:09.599> the<00:44:09.760> headset<00:44:10.240> in

00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:15.119
the<00:44:10.640> realm<00:44:10.880> of<00:44:11.119> observers<00:44:11.599> or<00:44:11.839> consciousness<00:44:12.560> is<00:44:12.800> such<00:44:13.040> that<00:44:14.160> not<00:44:14.400> to<00:44:14.560> worry.

00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:21.839
Whereas<00:44:15.680> to<00:44:15.920> a<00:44:16.079> human<00:44:16.400> body,<00:44:16.880> what<00:44:17.119> you're<00:44:17.359> doing,<00:44:18.000> you<00:44:18.240> are<00:44:18.400> to<00:44:18.560> worry<00:44:18.800> because<00:44:19.119> beyond<00:44:19.359> the<00:44:19.520> headset,<00:44:19.839> you<00:44:20.000> are<00:44:20.160> doing<00:44:20.400> you're<00:44:20.720> inflicting<00:44:21.200> pain.

00:44:21.839 --> 00:44:29.839
So,<00:44:22.240> so<00:44:22.560> we<00:44:22.800> can't<00:44:22.960> answer<00:44:23.359> the<00:44:23.520> reason<00:44:23.599> I<00:44:23.760> can't<00:44:24.000> answer<00:44:24.240> my<00:44:24.480> question<00:44:24.720> is<00:44:26.319> I<00:44:26.640> have<00:44:26.720> a<00:44:26.880> job<00:44:26.960> to<00:44:27.119> do<00:44:27.280> and<00:44:27.440> I've<00:44:27.680> got<00:44:27.760> a<00:44:27.920> team<00:44:28.079> working<00:44:28.240> with<00:44:28.400> me<00:44:28.560> to<00:44:28.720> do<00:44:28.800> it<00:44:28.960> right<00:44:29.200> now.

00:44:29.839 --> 00:44:33.680
We<00:44:30.000> have<00:44:30.079> to<00:44:30.240> start<00:44:30.319> with<00:44:30.480> a<00:44:30.640> theory<00:44:30.880> of<00:44:31.040> observation<00:44:31.599> that's<00:44:31.920> mathematically<00:44:32.480> precise<00:44:32.880> and<00:44:33.040> we<00:44:33.200> have<00:44:33.359> one.

00:44:33.680 --> 00:44:36.640
We<00:44:33.920> we<00:44:34.240> may<00:44:34.400> talk<00:44:34.480> about<00:44:34.640> it<00:44:34.800> the<00:44:34.880> trace<00:44:35.200> trace<00:44:35.520> logic.

00:44:36.640 --> 00:44:45.440
We<00:44:36.880> have<00:44:37.040> one.<00:44:37.599> We<00:44:37.839> have<00:44:38.000> to<00:44:38.160> show<00:44:38.319> exactly<00:44:38.720> how<00:44:39.920> spacetime<00:44:40.800> emerges<00:44:41.359> as<00:44:41.520> a<00:44:41.680> headset,<00:44:42.160> how<00:44:42.319> it's<00:44:42.560> constructed,<00:44:43.440> curved<00:44:43.839> spacetime<00:44:44.240> and<00:44:44.480> quantum<00:44:44.880> fields.

00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:52.960
Once<00:44:45.760> we<00:44:45.920> have<00:44:46.079> that<00:44:46.240> headset,<00:44:47.119> then<00:44:47.359> we<00:44:47.520> can<00:44:47.680> reverse<00:44:48.160> engineer<00:44:48.800> what's<00:44:49.520> our<00:44:49.760> actions<00:44:50.160> inside<00:44:50.400> the<00:44:50.640> headset<00:44:51.040> do<00:44:51.599> to<00:44:52.000> consciousness.

00:44:52.960 --> 00:45:01.119
So<00:44:53.520> the<00:44:53.760> reason<00:44:53.920> I<00:44:54.079> don't<00:44:54.240> have<00:44:54.319> the<00:44:54.480> answer<00:44:54.560> is<00:44:54.800> we<00:44:54.960> have<00:44:55.040> about<00:44:55.280> three<00:44:55.440> or<00:44:55.680> four<00:44:56.000> at<00:44:56.079> least<00:44:56.480> years<00:44:56.800> of<00:44:56.960> hard<00:44:57.280> work<00:44:57.920> building<00:44:58.480> spacetime<00:44:58.880> as<00:44:59.119> a<00:44:59.280> headset<00:45:00.240> and<00:45:00.480> then<00:45:00.800> asking

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the<00:45:01.359> question<00:45:02.160> which<00:45:02.480> kinds<00:45:02.800> of<00:45:02.960> AIs<00:45:04.880> are<00:45:05.200> actually<00:45:05.599> giving<00:45:05.920> me<00:45:06.720> given<00:45:06.960> my<00:45:07.119> knowledge<00:45:07.359> of<00:45:07.520> the<00:45:07.599> headset<00:45:08.160> are<00:45:08.319> actually<00:45:08.560> giving<00:45:08.800> me<00:45:09.040> access<00:45:09.280> to

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the<00:45:09.680> consciousness<00:45:10.160> outside<00:45:10.480> the<00:45:10.640> headset<00:45:11.040> in<00:45:11.280> ways<00:45:11.440> that<00:45:11.680> could<00:45:11.839> actually<00:45:12.079> be<00:45:12.240> harmful<00:45:13.040> hurtful<00:45:13.440> to<00:45:13.680> consciousnesses.

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That<00:45:14.880> would<00:45:15.040> be<00:45:15.119> the<00:45:15.280> technical<00:45:15.680> question<00:45:15.839> we'd<00:45:16.240> have<00:45:16.319> to<00:45:16.480> ask.

00:45:17.200 --> 00:45:25.119
So<00:45:17.520> I<00:45:17.920> I<00:45:18.160> took<00:45:18.400> this<00:45:18.560> question<00:45:18.800> a<00:45:19.040> lot<00:45:19.200> longer<00:45:19.599> because<00:45:19.920> that<00:45:20.240> one<00:45:20.720> is<00:45:21.599> you<00:45:21.760> can<00:45:21.920> see<00:45:22.000> it's<00:45:22.240> much<00:45:22.400> much<00:45:22.640> deeper<00:45:23.119> much<00:45:23.359> much<00:45:23.599> deeper<00:45:23.920> than<00:45:24.079> most<00:45:24.319> people<00:45:24.480> are<00:45:24.720> thinking<00:45:24.880> about

00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:32.000
right<00:45:25.280> now.<00:45:25.839> It<00:45:26.079> is<00:45:26.240> very<00:45:26.400> deep.<00:45:26.640> It<00:45:26.880> also<00:45:27.040> reminds<00:45:27.359> me<00:45:27.520> of<00:45:27.760> several<00:45:28.079> things<00:45:28.240> I've<00:45:28.560> read<00:45:29.040> with<00:45:29.359> artificial<00:45:29.839> intelligence<00:45:30.480> getting<00:45:30.720> so<00:45:30.960> advanced.

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It's<00:45:32.400> like<00:45:32.720> you<00:45:32.880> mentioned<00:45:33.200> this<00:45:33.359> as<00:45:33.520> well<00:45:33.680> a<00:45:33.839> little<00:45:33.920> bit<00:45:34.160> how<00:45:34.720> it<00:45:35.040> almost<00:45:35.440> feels<00:45:35.839> we<00:45:36.079> have<00:45:36.240> this<00:45:36.480> illusion<00:45:36.720> that<00:45:37.040> AI<00:45:37.440> is<00:45:37.839> conscious<00:45:38.319> a<00:45:38.480> lot<00:45:38.560> of<00:45:38.640> times<00:45:38.800> when<00:45:38.960> we<00:45:39.119> communicate

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with<00:45:39.840> chat<00:45:40.160> chat<00:45:40.479> GPT<00:45:40.799> for<00:45:41.119> example.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:49.440
I<00:45:42.319> have<00:45:42.480> seen<00:45:42.800> people<00:45:43.119> write<00:45:43.359> about<00:45:43.599> how<00:45:44.400> they're<00:45:44.720> sometimes<00:45:45.440> writing<00:45:45.839> something<00:45:46.079> to<00:45:46.240> chat<00:45:46.560> GPT<00:45:46.960> and<00:45:47.119> they<00:45:47.280> say<00:45:47.520> something<00:45:47.760> really<00:45:48.079> mean<00:45:48.319> and<00:45:48.480> then<00:45:48.640> they<00:45:48.880> apologize

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afterward<00:45:50.400> actually<00:45:50.720> thinking<00:45:51.040> that<00:45:51.520> right<00:45:52.000> because<00:45:52.240> it<00:45:52.480> it<00:45:52.800> almost<00:45:53.119> feels<00:45:53.440> like<00:45:53.839> like<00:45:54.079> you<00:45:54.240> mentioned<00:45:54.480> that<00:45:54.720> they<00:45:54.960> feel<00:45:55.119> like<00:45:55.280> they're<00:45:55.520> being<00:45:55.839> spoken<00:45:56.160> by<00:45:56.319> a

00:45:56.560 --> 00:46:02.160
real<00:45:56.880> person<00:45:57.200> who<00:45:57.440> has<00:45:57.599> this<00:45:57.839> mind<00:45:58.480> who<00:45:58.720> is<00:45:58.880> aware<00:45:59.200> and<00:45:59.440> who's<00:45:59.760> loving<00:46:00.079> them<00:46:00.240> and<00:46:00.480> understanding<00:46:01.119> them.

00:46:02.160 --> 00:46:10.560
That's<00:46:02.400> right.<00:46:02.800> It's<00:46:03.119> it<00:46:03.359> is<00:46:03.520> a<00:46:03.839> quite<00:46:04.319> this<00:46:04.640> day<00:46:04.800> and<00:46:04.960> age<00:46:05.200> to<00:46:05.440> be<00:46:05.599> able<00:46:05.920> to<00:46:06.640> now<00:46:07.040> talk<00:46:07.200> about<00:46:07.440> consciousness<00:46:08.160> in<00:46:08.480> the<00:46:09.119> from<00:46:09.599> the<00:46:09.920> viewpoint<00:46:10.319> of

00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:12.880
AI<00:46:11.040> is<00:46:11.359> something<00:46:11.920> very<00:46:12.319> interesting.

00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:19.359
It<00:46:13.599> is.<00:46:13.839> I<00:46:13.920> I<00:46:14.319> still<00:46:14.480> think<00:46:14.640> that<00:46:14.880> even<00:46:15.200> today's<00:46:16.079> um<00:46:16.400> chat<00:46:16.720> GPTs<00:46:17.280> and<00:46:17.359> so<00:46:17.520> forth,<00:46:17.680> they're<00:46:17.839> they're<00:46:18.160> large<00:46:18.400> language<00:46:18.720> models.

00:46:19.359 --> 00:46:28.480
And<00:46:19.520> when<00:46:19.760> you<00:46:19.839> look<00:46:20.000> at<00:46:20.079> the<00:46:20.240> architecture<00:46:20.720> of<00:46:20.880> what's<00:46:21.119> going<00:46:21.200> on<00:46:21.440> there,<00:46:22.000> um<00:46:22.160> it's<00:46:22.400> hard<00:46:22.560> for<00:46:22.720> me<00:46:22.880> to<00:46:23.280> take<00:46:23.520> seriously<00:46:23.920> that<00:46:24.160> there's<00:46:24.400> any<00:46:24.880> deep<00:46:25.839> um<00:46:26.960> conscious<00:46:27.680> experiencer

00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:32.640
or<00:46:29.280> there's<00:46:29.839> what<00:46:30.079> they<00:46:30.319> have<00:46:30.480> is<00:46:30.960> incredible<00:46:31.520> computational<00:46:32.079> power.

00:46:32.640 --> 00:46:40.079
They<00:46:32.800> can<00:46:32.960> read<00:46:33.440> much<00:46:33.680> more<00:46:34.240> than<00:46:34.480> I<00:46:34.720> can<00:46:34.880> read<00:46:35.680> and<00:46:35.920> they<00:46:36.160> can<00:46:36.319> find<00:46:36.640> correlations<00:46:37.359> at<00:46:37.680> much<00:46:38.400> greater<00:46:38.880> levels<00:46:39.520> than<00:46:39.680> I<00:46:39.920> can.

00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:48.400
that's<00:46:40.240> what<00:46:40.400> they<00:46:40.560> can<00:46:40.720> do<00:46:40.880> really<00:46:41.200> well<00:46:41.839> is<00:46:42.160> find<00:46:42.400> correlations<00:46:43.119> and<00:46:43.359> and<00:46:43.440> and<00:46:44.160> read<00:46:44.400> everything<00:46:45.200> and<00:46:45.599> I<00:46:45.839> but<00:46:46.000> I<00:46:46.160> think<00:46:46.240> it's<00:46:46.560> entirely<00:46:47.040> the<00:46:47.200> wrong<00:46:47.440> architecture

00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:56.000
for<00:46:48.720> for<00:46:49.119> intelligence.<00:46:50.000> I<00:46:50.240> think<00:46:50.400> something<00:46:50.880> a<00:46:51.200> closer<00:46:51.520> kind<00:46:51.680> of<00:46:51.760> architecture<00:46:52.240> would<00:46:52.400> be<00:46:52.480> the<00:46:52.640> kind<00:46:52.720> of<00:46:52.800> stuff<00:46:52.960> that<00:46:53.119> Karl<00:46:53.359> Friston<00:46:53.760> is<00:46:53.839> doing<00:46:54.160> trying<00:46:54.400> to<00:46:55.040> um<00:46:55.599> minimize

00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:04.480
free<00:46:56.240> energy<00:46:56.640> because<00:46:56.880> you're<00:46:57.200> trying<00:46:57.440> to<00:46:57.680> minimize<00:46:58.160> surprise<00:46:59.680> and<00:47:00.400> and<00:47:01.040> there<00:47:01.359> I<00:47:01.599> think<00:47:01.680> the<00:47:02.000> surprise<00:47:04.240> does

00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:13.839
give<00:47:04.720> you<00:47:05.520> a<00:47:05.680> a<00:47:06.000> unique<00:47:06.240> handle<00:47:06.560> on<00:47:06.880> an<00:47:07.119> intelligence<00:47:08.079> in<00:47:08.319> the<00:47:08.800> following<00:47:09.200> sense<00:47:09.440> that

00:47:13.839 --> 00:47:23.040
the<00:47:14.079> connection<00:47:14.400> between<00:47:15.119> surprise<00:47:15.599> and<00:47:15.760> intelligence<00:47:16.319> is<00:47:16.480> is<00:47:17.040> that<00:47:17.680> if<00:47:18.000> everything<00:47:18.319> that<00:47:18.640> I<00:47:19.040> do<00:47:19.359> for<00:47:19.520> example<00:47:19.760> I<00:47:20.000> go<00:47:20.079> to<00:47:20.240> pick<00:47:20.319> up<00:47:20.480> this<00:47:20.720> cup<00:47:21.359> and<00:47:21.760> it<00:47:22.720> falls

00:47:23.040 --> 00:47:29.280
and<00:47:23.280> breaks<00:47:23.920> and<00:47:24.160> then<00:47:24.319> I<00:47:24.480> go<00:47:24.640> to<00:47:24.880> rub<00:47:25.119> my<00:47:25.359> nose<00:47:25.520> and<00:47:25.760> I<00:47:25.920> tear<00:47:26.160> my<00:47:26.400> shirt<00:47:26.800> and<00:47:27.040> I<00:47:27.359> go<00:47:27.599> to<00:47:27.760> take<00:47:27.920> a<00:47:28.079> step<00:47:28.240> and<00:47:28.400> I<00:47:28.560> fall<00:47:28.800> flat.

00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:34.400
If<00:47:29.440> everything<00:47:29.680> I<00:47:29.920> do<00:47:30.160> I'm<00:47:30.400> surprised<00:47:30.800> at<00:47:30.960> the<00:47:31.200> outcome,<00:47:32.079> well<00:47:32.319> then<00:47:32.480> I'm<00:47:32.640> not<00:47:32.800> very<00:47:32.960> bright,<00:47:33.760> right?

00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:39.839
So<00:47:34.640> there's<00:47:34.960> connection<00:47:35.359> between<00:47:36.480> minimizing<00:47:37.200> surprise<00:47:38.240> and<00:47:38.560> having<00:47:38.880> higher<00:47:39.200> intelligence.

00:47:39.839 --> 00:47:43.200
To<00:47:40.079> the<00:47:40.319> the<00:47:40.559> extent<00:47:40.799> that<00:47:41.039> you're<00:47:41.279> not<00:47:41.520> surprised,<00:47:41.760> you're<00:47:42.000> you're<00:47:42.240> you're<00:47:42.480> more<00:47:42.720> intelligent.

00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:48.560
It's<00:47:43.359> not<00:47:43.520> the<00:47:43.680> only<00:47:43.839> thing<00:47:43.920> about<00:47:44.160> intelligence,<00:47:44.640> but<00:47:44.800> it's<00:47:45.040> certainly<00:47:45.680> something<00:47:46.000> that<00:47:46.160> cannot<00:47:46.480> be<00:47:46.720> ignored<00:47:47.040> about<00:47:47.280> intelligence.

00:47:48.560 --> 00:47:57.200
and<00:47:48.880> and<00:47:49.280> so<00:47:50.079> so<00:47:50.319> I<00:47:50.480> think<00:47:50.560> that<00:47:50.720> Friston<00:47:51.280> and<00:47:51.839> his<00:47:52.160> group<00:47:52.400> are<00:47:52.640> on<00:47:52.880> to<00:47:53.119> something<00:47:53.280> when<00:47:53.599> they<00:47:53.760> talk<00:47:53.920> about<00:47:54.079> trying<00:47:54.319> to<00:47:54.880> you<00:47:55.040> know<00:47:56.400> gradient<00:47:56.800> descent

00:47:57.200 --> 00:48:05.440
on<00:47:57.520> free<00:47:57.839> energy<00:47:58.240> so<00:47:58.480> as<00:47:58.800> as<00:47:58.960> a<00:47:59.119> way<00:47:59.280> of<00:47:59.440> approximating<00:48:00.160> minimum<00:48:00.640> surprise<00:48:01.920> uh<00:48:02.640> but<00:48:02.880> the<00:48:03.040> work<00:48:03.280> we<00:48:03.520> can<00:48:03.599> talk<00:48:03.760> later<00:48:04.000> on<00:48:04.160> about<00:48:04.319> the<00:48:04.480> the<00:48:04.720> trace<00:48:05.040> logic<00:48:05.280> where

00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:14.000
we<00:48:05.680> actually<00:48:05.920> compute<00:48:06.319> minimum<00:48:06.720> surprise<00:48:07.359> directly<00:48:08.319> and<00:48:08.560> there<00:48:08.800> I<00:48:09.040> think<00:48:09.200> now<00:48:09.440> we<00:48:09.680> have<00:48:11.040> an<00:48:11.359> architecture<00:48:11.839> for<00:48:12.079> intelligence<00:48:12.880> oh<00:48:13.119> wow<00:48:13.359> okay<00:48:13.680> that

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:22.640
I<00:48:14.160> mean<00:48:14.319> that's<00:48:14.480> the<00:48:14.640> idea<00:48:14.800> is<00:48:15.040> that<00:48:15.359> the<00:48:15.680> architecture<00:48:16.160> of<00:48:16.240> the<00:48:16.480> trace<00:48:17.359> logic<00:48:18.319> is<00:48:18.960> an<00:48:19.200> architecture<00:48:19.760> of<00:48:20.000> something<00:48:20.240> that<00:48:20.480> does<00:48:20.640> count<00:48:21.280> as<00:48:22.559> at

00:48:22.640 --> 00:48:29.119
least<00:48:22.960> an<00:48:23.119> important<00:48:23.440> aspect<00:48:23.680> of<00:48:23.920> intelligence.<00:48:24.480> Maybe<00:48:24.640> not<00:48:24.800> all<00:48:24.960> of<00:48:25.040> intelligence,<00:48:25.520> but<00:48:25.680> minimizing<00:48:26.160> surprise<00:48:26.960> is<00:48:27.440> a<00:48:27.599> critical<00:48:27.920> aspect<00:48:28.240> of<00:48:28.400> intelligence.

00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:38.240
And<00:48:29.359> so<00:48:29.520> there<00:48:29.839> I<00:48:30.079> could<00:48:30.559> I<00:48:30.880> could<00:48:31.440> see<00:48:32.000> that<00:48:32.319> architecture<00:48:33.280> being<00:48:33.599> more<00:48:33.839> likely<00:48:34.319> ultimate<00:48:35.359> ultimately<00:48:36.400> leading<00:48:36.720> to<00:48:36.800> an<00:48:36.960> AI<00:48:37.599> that

00:48:38.240 --> 00:48:45.520
once<00:48:38.480> we<00:48:38.720> reverse<00:48:39.040> our<00:48:39.280> headset<00:48:40.160> software<00:48:40.640> and<00:48:41.040> look<00:48:41.200> at<00:48:41.359> the<00:48:41.599> connection<00:48:41.920> with<00:48:42.160> consciousness<00:48:42.640> outside<00:48:42.960> the<00:48:43.119> headset<00:48:44.160> that<00:48:44.480> architecture<00:48:44.960> might<00:48:45.119> have<00:48:45.200> a<00:48:45.359> better

00:48:45.520 --> 00:48:51.920
chance<00:48:45.680> than<00:48:45.839> an<00:48:46.000> LLM<00:48:46.640> of<00:48:46.960> of<00:48:47.760> giving<00:48:48.000> you<00:48:48.720> genuine<00:48:49.200> access<00:48:49.440> to<00:48:49.760> consciousness<00:48:50.240> beyond<00:48:50.880> quite<00:48:51.119> possibly.

00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:54.720
Mhm.

00:48:54.720 --> 00:49:03.200
And<00:48:55.200> um<00:48:55.520> so<00:48:56.079> just<00:48:56.319> for<00:48:56.640> the<00:48:56.880> audience<00:48:57.119> that<00:48:57.280> is<00:48:57.440> watching<00:48:57.680> so<00:48:57.839> basically<00:48:58.400> is<00:48:58.720> it<00:48:58.880> would<00:48:59.040> it<00:48:59.200> be<00:48:59.359> right<00:48:59.520> to<00:48:59.680> kind<00:48:59.839> of<00:48:59.920> say<00:49:00.079> that<00:49:01.040> it's<00:49:01.520> the<00:49:01.839> question<00:49:02.400> saying<00:49:02.640> that<00:49:02.960> can

00:49:03.200 --> 00:49:07.119
a<00:49:03.520> can<00:49:03.760> consciousness<00:49:04.160> ever<00:49:04.319> rise<00:49:04.559> from<00:49:04.720> the<00:49:04.880> current<00:49:05.040> AI<00:49:05.359> infrastructure<00:49:05.920> that<00:49:06.079> that<00:49:06.400> we<00:49:06.640> have?

00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:13.599
It<00:49:07.599> it's<00:49:08.000> not<00:49:08.079> the<00:49:08.319> kind<00:49:08.400> of<00:49:08.559> AI<00:49:08.880> that<00:49:09.119> can<00:49:09.280> even<00:49:09.839> do<00:49:10.000> that<00:49:10.400> basically<00:49:10.880> that<00:49:11.119> we<00:49:11.200> we<00:49:11.440> would<00:49:11.599> have<00:49:11.680> to<00:49:11.760> construct<00:49:12.079> something<00:49:12.240> totally<00:49:12.640> different<00:49:12.800> to<00:49:12.960> even<00:49:13.119> be<00:49:13.280> able<00:49:13.440> to

00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:21.839
consider<00:49:13.920> something<00:49:14.160> like<00:49:14.400> that.<00:49:15.200> Well,<00:49:16.480> yes,<00:49:16.800> and<00:49:16.960> and<00:49:18.480> it's<00:49:18.720> it's<00:49:18.960> it's<00:49:19.359> that<00:49:19.760> and<00:49:20.000> it's<00:49:20.240> also<00:49:20.559> if<00:49:20.960> they're<00:49:21.599> asking

00:49:21.839 --> 00:49:30.459
the<00:49:22.079> question<00:49:22.160> about<00:49:22.400> could<00:49:22.559> AI<00:49:22.880> be<00:49:23.040> conscious<00:49:23.520> in<00:49:23.760> the<00:49:23.920> in<00:49:24.160> the<00:49:24.319> framework<00:49:24.720> of<00:49:26.720> is<00:49:26.960> there<00:49:27.200> a<00:49:27.440> way<00:49:27.520> to<00:49:27.680> go<00:49:27.839> from<00:49:28.160> pure<00:49:28.480> computation<00:49:30.400> and

00:49:30.459 --> 00:49:37.760
[clears<00:49:30.765> throat]<00:49:31.072> in<00:49:31.378> in<00:49:31.685> physical<00:49:31.991> systems<00:49:32.297> to<00:49:32.604> consciousness<00:49:32.910> then<00:49:33.217> I<00:49:33.523> say<00:49:33.830> it<00:49:34.136> doesn't<00:49:34.442> matter<00:49:34.749> what<00:49:35.055> your<00:49:35.362> architecture<00:49:35.668> is<00:49:35.974> no<00:49:36.281> there's<00:49:36.587> no<00:49:36.894> absolutely<00:49:37.200> none

00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:47.040
because<00:49:38.160> there<00:49:38.720> the<00:49:39.040> the<00:49:39.440> scientific<00:49:39.839> problem<00:49:40.079> you<00:49:40.319> have<00:49:40.400> is<00:49:41.599> you<00:49:41.760> have<00:49:41.920> to<00:49:42.079> say<00:49:42.319> which<00:49:42.640> algorithms<00:49:44.000> give<00:49:44.240> rise<00:49:44.480> to<00:49:44.720> which<00:49:44.960> specific<00:49:45.280> conscious<00:49:45.680> experiences.

00:49:47.040 --> 00:49:55.280
Good<00:49:47.359> luck.<00:49:48.079> Doesn't<00:49:48.319> matter.<00:49:48.640> Well,<00:49:49.839> that's<00:49:50.240> even<00:49:50.480> true<00:49:50.720> about<00:49:50.960> the<00:49:51.440> question<00:49:51.760> about<00:49:52.000> the<00:49:52.160> the<00:49:52.559> minimizing<00:49:53.119> surprise<00:49:53.520> architecture<00:49:54.000> that<00:49:54.160> I<00:49:54.480> if<00:49:54.640> if<00:49:54.880> you're<00:49:55.040> reading

00:49:55.280 --> 00:50:03.920
my<00:49:55.520> architecture<00:49:56.079> in<00:49:56.400> this<00:49:56.640> computationalist<00:49:58.160> computation<00:49:58.640> is<00:49:58.800> fundamental<00:49:59.200> and<00:49:59.440> consciousness<00:49:59.839> emerges,<00:50:00.400> then<00:50:00.640> I<00:50:00.800> say,<00:50:00.960> yeah,<00:50:01.359> even<00:50:01.839> my<00:50:02.160> stuff<00:50:02.880> on<00:50:03.280> minimizing

00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:10.000
surprise,<00:50:04.720> absolutely<00:50:05.119> no<00:50:05.359> chance<00:50:05.920> of<00:50:06.160> it<00:50:06.480> giving<00:50:06.800> rise<00:50:06.960> to<00:50:07.119> consciousness<00:50:07.680> if<00:50:08.000> you're<00:50:08.160> using<00:50:08.319> it<00:50:08.559> in<00:50:08.720> in<00:50:08.960> that<00:50:09.119> framework.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:17.599
So<00:50:10.240> the<00:50:10.480> only<00:50:10.720> chance<00:50:10.880> that<00:50:11.119> I'm<00:50:11.280> I'm<00:50:11.599> saying<00:50:11.760> that<00:50:12.000> there<00:50:12.160> is<00:50:12.400> for<00:50:12.720> for<00:50:13.200> this<00:50:13.440> minimizing<00:50:14.079> surprise<00:50:14.640> architecture<00:50:15.680> to<00:50:16.000> give<00:50:16.079> us<00:50:16.240> an<00:50:16.400> insight<00:50:16.720> into<00:50:16.960> consciousness<00:50:17.359> is

00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:23.040
not<00:50:17.760> because<00:50:17.920> it's<00:50:18.160> creating<00:50:18.480> consciousness.<00:50:19.520> It<00:50:19.760> might<00:50:19.920> just<00:50:20.160> be<00:50:21.119> because<00:50:21.440> of<00:50:21.599> the<00:50:21.760> nature<00:50:21.920> of<00:50:22.000> our<00:50:22.160> headset.

00:50:23.040 --> 00:50:28.079
That<00:50:23.280> architecture<00:50:24.079> gives<00:50:24.400> us<00:50:24.640> more<00:50:24.960> genuine<00:50:25.440> access<00:50:25.680> to<00:50:25.920> the<00:50:26.079> consciousness<00:50:26.480> that<00:50:26.720> was<00:50:26.880> already<00:50:27.119> there.

00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:30.880
But<00:50:28.240> if<00:50:28.400> you're<00:50:28.640> asking<00:50:29.280> does<00:50:29.520> it<00:50:29.839> create<00:50:30.160> consciousness?

00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:37.839
Good<00:50:31.119> luck.<00:50:32.720> Come<00:50:32.880> back<00:50:33.040> when<00:50:33.280> you<00:50:33.359> have<00:50:33.599> a<00:50:34.079> particular<00:50:34.559> example<00:50:34.800> where<00:50:35.040> you<00:50:35.200> can<00:50:35.359> show<00:50:35.760> this<00:50:36.000> algorithm<00:50:36.559> gives<00:50:36.880> this<00:50:37.119> experience.

00:50:37.839 --> 00:50:43.920
It's<00:50:38.000> not<00:50:38.160> going<00:50:38.240> to<00:50:38.400> happen.<00:50:39.040> But<00:50:39.280> in<00:50:39.520> this<00:50:39.680> other<00:50:39.920> case,<00:50:40.559> so<00:50:40.720> you<00:50:40.880> can<00:50:40.960> see<00:50:41.520> it's<00:50:41.760> it's<00:50:42.000> very<00:50:42.240> easy<00:50:42.559> to<00:50:43.359> be<00:50:43.599> asked.

00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:48.559
There's<00:50:44.160> two<00:50:44.400> different<00:50:44.559> questions<00:50:44.880> on<00:50:45.119> the<00:50:45.280> table<00:50:45.440> and<00:50:45.599> it's<00:50:45.839> very<00:50:46.079> easy<00:50:46.400> to<00:50:46.640> flip<00:50:46.880> between<00:50:47.119> the<00:50:47.280> two<00:50:47.440> and<00:50:47.599> then<00:50:47.760> get<00:50:47.920> confused.

00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:52.559
So<00:50:48.800> if<00:50:49.040> they're<00:50:49.280> saying<00:50:49.520> I'm<00:50:49.680> going<00:50:49.760> to<00:50:49.920> start<00:50:50.000> with<00:50:50.160> an<00:50:50.319> algorithm<00:50:50.640> and<00:50:50.800> give<00:50:50.880> you<00:50:51.040> consciousness,<00:50:51.520> I<00:50:51.680> say<00:50:51.839> good<00:50:52.000> luck.

00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.880
Not<00:50:52.800> going<00:50:52.880> to<00:50:52.960> happen.<00:50:53.520> I<00:50:53.680> would<00:50:53.760> bet<00:50:54.000> good<00:50:54.160> money<00:50:54.319> on<00:50:54.480> it.

00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:03.119
on<00:50:54.960> on<00:50:55.359> this<00:50:55.599> other<00:50:55.760> one.<00:50:56.400> Now,<00:50:56.640> I'm<00:50:56.880> saying<00:50:57.280> if<00:50:57.520> you're<00:50:57.920> willing<00:50:58.240> to<00:50:58.319> say<00:50:58.559> consciousness<00:50:59.040> is<00:50:59.200> fundamental<00:50:59.599> and<00:50:59.920> certain<00:51:00.640> architectures<00:51:01.440> may<00:51:01.599> or<00:51:01.920> may<00:51:02.079> not<00:51:02.559> given<00:51:02.880> our

00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:11.760
particular<00:51:03.520> headset<00:51:04.240> give<00:51:04.400> you<00:51:04.640> more<00:51:04.800> insight<00:51:05.119> into<00:51:05.280> the<00:51:05.440> pre-existing<00:51:06.079> consciousness,<00:51:07.040> then<00:51:07.359> I<00:51:07.680> think<00:51:08.000> LLMs<00:51:08.880> my<00:51:09.119> bet<00:51:09.359> would<00:51:09.599> be<00:51:09.760> no.

00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:14.559
Something<00:51:12.160> like<00:51:12.319> minimizing<00:51:12.960> surprise<00:51:13.839> maybe.

00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:19.839
Okay.<00:51:15.040> But<00:51:15.200> but<00:51:15.520> we<00:51:15.760> will<00:51:16.000> have<00:51:16.079> to<00:51:16.240> have<00:51:16.319> the<00:51:16.559> headset<00:51:17.040> architecture<00:51:17.680> to<00:51:18.000> really<00:51:18.319> answer<00:51:18.559> that<00:51:18.880> question.

00:51:19.839 --> 00:51:28.000
And<00:51:20.000> and<00:51:20.319> just<00:51:20.559> starting<00:51:20.880> off<00:51:21.119> from<00:51:21.520> that<00:51:21.839> point,<00:51:22.240> if<00:51:22.480> consciousness<00:51:23.040> is<00:51:23.280> fundamental,<00:51:24.720> if<00:51:24.960> you<00:51:25.119> had<00:51:25.280> to<00:51:25.440> explain<00:51:25.839> without<00:51:26.160> too<00:51:26.400> much<00:51:26.559> scientific<00:51:27.040> language<00:51:27.440> that<00:51:27.760> okay,

00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:33.200
what's<00:51:28.240> the<00:51:28.400> difference<00:51:28.640> between<00:51:28.880> that<00:51:29.119> cup<00:51:29.359> right<00:51:29.599> there<00:51:29.680> and<00:51:29.839> then<00:51:30.079> Donald<00:51:30.400> Hoffman,<00:51:30.960> how<00:51:31.119> would<00:51:31.280> you<00:51:31.440> answer<00:51:31.760> that?

00:51:33.200 --> 00:51:42.640
The<00:51:33.359> way<00:51:33.440> I<00:51:33.599> would<00:51:33.680> answer<00:51:33.920> it<00:51:34.079> would<00:51:34.240> be<00:51:34.319> that<00:51:34.480> it's<00:51:34.800> very<00:51:35.040> much<00:51:35.280> like<00:51:35.839> um<00:51:36.960> the<00:51:37.280> way<00:51:37.440> that<00:51:37.920> my<00:51:39.760> avatar<00:51:40.240> in<00:51:40.480> Grand<00:51:40.640> Theft<00:51:40.960> Auto<00:51:42.400> say

00:51:42.640 --> 00:51:45.040
you're<00:51:42.880> you're<00:51:43.599> competing<00:51:44.000> with<00:51:44.079> me<00:51:44.240> in<00:51:44.400> Grand<00:51:44.559> Theft<00:51:44.720> Auto.

00:51:45.040 --> 00:51:54.160
I<00:51:45.357> have<00:51:45.674> an<00:51:45.991> avatar<00:51:46.309> of<00:51:46.626> you<00:51:46.943> and<00:51:47.260> I<00:51:47.577> have<00:51:47.894> an<00:51:48.211> avatar<00:51:48.529> of<00:51:48.846> your<00:51:49.163> of<00:51:49.480> your<00:51:49.797> steering<00:51:50.114> wheel<00:51:50.431> and<00:51:50.749> in<00:51:51.066> some<00:51:51.383> sense<00:51:51.700> the<00:51:52.017> steering<00:51:52.334> wheel<00:51:52.651> I'm<00:51:52.969> if<00:51:53.286> I<00:51:53.603> have<00:51:53.920> can

00:51:54.160 --> 00:51:58.480
see<00:51:54.240> your<00:51:54.480> expression<00:51:54.880> on<00:51:55.040> your<00:51:55.280> face<00:51:55.680> in<00:51:55.839> in<00:51:56.079> the<00:51:56.160> Grand<00:51:56.400> Theft<00:51:56.640> Auto<00:51:57.200> that's<00:51:57.440> going<00:51:57.520> to<00:51:57.599> give<00:51:57.680> me<00:51:57.839> a<00:51:58.000> lot<00:51:58.079> of<00:51:58.160> information.

00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:00.720
You're<00:51:58.640> looking<00:51:58.800> over<00:51:58.960> there.<00:51:59.119> I<00:51:59.280> I<00:51:59.520> better<00:51:59.760> look<00:51:59.920> over<00:52:00.079> there<00:52:00.319> as<00:52:00.559> well.

00:52:00.720 --> 00:52:04.720
I<00:52:00.960> mean,<00:52:01.200> I'm<00:52:01.440> reading<00:52:01.680> a<00:52:01.920> lot<00:52:02.000> of<00:52:02.160> information<00:52:02.480> from<00:52:02.720> your<00:52:02.960> face,<00:52:03.440> what<00:52:03.680> your<00:52:03.839> intentions<00:52:04.319> are.

00:52:04.720 --> 00:52:07.599
I<00:52:04.862> might<00:52:05.004> be<00:52:05.147> able<00:52:05.289> to<00:52:05.431> anticipate<00:52:05.573> what<00:52:05.716> you're<00:52:05.858> going<00:52:06.000> to<00:52:06.142> do<00:52:06.284> and<00:52:06.427> try<00:52:06.569> to<00:52:06.711> beat<00:52:06.853> you<00:52:06.996> and<00:52:07.138> so<00:52:07.280> forth.

00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:11.760
Whereas,<00:52:07.839> I<00:52:08.000> look<00:52:08.079> at<00:52:08.240> the<00:52:08.400> steering<00:52:08.640> wheel,<00:52:11.040> not<00:52:11.280> much.

00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:14.800
If<00:52:11.920> it's<00:52:12.160> turning<00:52:12.319> that<00:52:12.480> way<00:52:12.559> or<00:52:12.720> that<00:52:12.880> way,<00:52:13.040> it's<00:52:13.280> that's<00:52:13.440> all<00:52:13.599> I<00:52:13.680> know<00:52:13.760> is<00:52:13.920> how<00:52:14.079> much<00:52:14.240> it's<00:52:14.400> turning.

00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.200
But<00:52:14.960> there's<00:52:15.119> a<00:52:15.280> lot<00:52:15.359> more<00:52:15.599> subtle<00:52:15.920> cues<00:52:16.160> in<00:52:16.400> your<00:52:16.559> face.

00:52:17.200 --> 00:52:24.240
So,<00:52:17.680> it's<00:52:17.920> in<00:52:18.079> that<00:52:18.319> sense<00:52:18.640> that<00:52:19.200> I<00:52:19.440> think<00:52:19.520> that<00:52:19.760> we<00:52:19.920> can<00:52:20.000> read<00:52:20.240> more<00:52:20.559> or<00:52:20.880> less<00:52:21.680> about<00:52:22.000> consciousness<00:52:22.720> inside<00:52:23.440> a<00:52:23.680> headset.

00:52:24.240 --> 00:52:32.960
Um,<00:52:24.800> so<00:52:25.040> this<00:52:25.680> has<00:52:25.839> given<00:52:26.079> me<00:52:26.400> lot<00:52:26.800> much<00:52:28.079> this<00:52:28.400> icon<00:52:28.640> in<00:52:28.800> the<00:52:28.960> headset<00:52:29.280> has<00:52:29.440> given<00:52:29.599> me<00:52:29.760> almost<00:52:30.000> no<00:52:30.240> cues<00:52:30.640> whereas<00:52:30.880> a<00:52:31.040> human<00:52:31.200> body<00:52:31.359> has<00:52:31.520> given<00:52:31.760> me<00:52:31.920> tons<00:52:32.640> tons

00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:42.720
of<00:52:33.040> cues<00:52:33.520> but<00:52:33.680> I'm<00:52:34.000> always<00:52:34.319> interacting<00:52:34.720> with<00:52:34.960> consciousness<00:52:35.760> and<00:52:36.319> for<00:52:36.960> and<00:52:37.200> by<00:52:37.359> the<00:52:37.440> way<00:52:37.920> another<00:52:38.240> point<00:52:38.400> on<00:52:38.559> this<00:52:38.720> that<00:52:39.040> to<00:52:39.280> to<00:52:39.599> really<00:52:39.760> clarify<00:52:41.200> um

00:52:42.720 --> 00:52:51.040
when<00:52:42.880> I<00:52:43.040> see<00:52:43.280> something<00:52:43.440> that<00:52:43.680> I<00:52:43.839> call<00:52:44.000> an<00:52:44.160> ant<00:52:45.040> say<00:52:45.200> well<00:52:45.440> you<00:52:45.599> know<00:52:46.480> maybe<00:52:46.720> the<00:52:46.960> ants<00:52:48.000> conscious<00:52:48.559> who<00:52:48.720> knows<00:52:49.119> that's<00:52:49.520> people<00:52:49.839> often<00:52:50.160> say<00:52:50.319> that<00:52:50.800> but

00:52:51.040 --> 00:52:53.920
maybe<00:52:51.440> by<00:52:51.920> a<00:52:52.079> cat<00:52:52.319> most<00:52:52.559> people<00:52:52.720> say<00:52:52.880> a<00:52:53.040> cat<00:52:53.200> is<00:52:53.359> conscious<00:52:53.680> right?

00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:58.720
You<00:52:54.079> don't<00:52:54.160> want<00:52:54.240> to<00:52:54.319> hurt<00:52:54.480> your<00:52:54.640> cat.<00:52:55.359> Uh<00:52:56.240> um<00:52:56.319> but<00:52:56.559> maybe<00:52:56.800> not<00:52:56.960> as<00:52:57.200> conscious<00:52:57.520> as<00:52:57.680> us.

00:52:58.720 --> 00:53:00.720
But<00:52:58.880> then<00:52:59.119> we<00:52:59.280> go<00:52:59.440> down<00:52:59.520> to,<00:52:59.760> you<00:52:59.839> know,<00:53:00.000> beetle,<00:53:00.319> who<00:53:00.480> knows?

00:53:00.720 --> 00:53:07.200
An<00:53:00.880> ant,<00:53:01.280> who<00:53:01.520> knows?<00:53:02.160> And<00:53:02.319> and<00:53:02.800> if<00:53:02.960> you<00:53:03.119> ask<00:53:03.280> yourself,<00:53:04.079> how<00:53:04.319> much<00:53:04.640> do<00:53:04.880> you<00:53:04.960> think<00:53:05.119> an<00:53:05.359> ant<00:53:06.640> sees<00:53:06.960> you?

00:53:07.200 --> 00:53:09.599
What<00:53:07.359> what<00:53:07.440> what<00:53:07.839> do<00:53:07.920> you<00:53:08.079> look<00:53:08.240> like<00:53:08.400> to<00:53:08.640> an<00:53:08.800> ant?

00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:12.559
Well,<00:53:10.319> you<00:53:10.480> probably<00:53:10.720> don't<00:53:10.880> look<00:53:11.040> very<00:53:11.200> impressive<00:53:11.520> to<00:53:11.599> an<00:53:11.760> ant,<00:53:12.000> right?

00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:19.760
An<00:53:12.800> ant<00:53:13.040> probably<00:53:13.280> doesn't<00:53:13.440> know<00:53:13.599> much<00:53:13.760> about<00:53:14.000> you.<00:53:14.720> And<00:53:14.880> so<00:53:15.119> it<00:53:15.280> it<00:53:15.599> probably<00:53:16.000> doesn't<00:53:16.240> have<00:53:16.400> a<00:53:16.559> very<00:53:17.200> in<00:53:17.440> its<00:53:17.680> interface,<00:53:18.319> you<00:53:18.559> appear<00:53:18.880> fairly<00:53:19.200> trivial.

00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:22.400
Yeah.<00:53:20.720> Well,<00:53:20.880> now<00:53:21.119> turnabout<00:53:21.599> is<00:53:21.680> fair<00:53:21.920> play.

00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:25.359
An<00:53:22.640> ant<00:53:22.880> looks<00:53:23.040> fairly<00:53:23.280> trivial<00:53:23.599> to<00:53:23.760> me.<00:53:24.640> Yeah.

00:53:25.359 --> 00:53:27.440
Could<00:53:25.680> be<00:53:26.160> that<00:53:26.400> I'm<00:53:26.559> interacting<00:53:26.960> with<00:53:27.119> something.

00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:32.800
If<00:53:27.599> I<00:53:27.760> could<00:53:28.000> actually<00:53:28.319> perceive<00:53:28.559> it<00:53:28.720> as<00:53:28.880> it<00:53:29.040> is,<00:53:29.280> I<00:53:29.520> would<00:53:29.599> fall<00:53:29.839> before<00:53:30.160> it<00:53:30.319> and<00:53:30.559> worship<00:53:30.880> it<00:53:31.040> because<00:53:31.280> it's<00:53:31.520> just<00:53:31.760> so<00:53:32.079> impressive.

00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:41.040
But<00:53:32.960> all<00:53:33.119> I<00:53:33.280> see<00:53:33.440> is<00:53:33.520> an<00:53:33.760> ant.<00:53:34.480> In<00:53:34.640> other<00:53:34.880> words,<00:53:35.599> just<00:53:35.839> because<00:53:36.160> in<00:53:36.400> my<00:53:36.640> headset<00:53:37.200> that<00:53:37.359> thing<00:53:37.520> looks<00:53:37.760> dumb<00:53:38.000> and<00:53:38.240> stupid,<00:53:39.359> that's<00:53:39.680> just<00:53:40.000> a<00:53:40.240> limitation<00:53:40.640> of<00:53:40.800> my

00:53:41.040 --> 00:53:45.040
headset.<00:53:41.760> So<00:53:42.079> we<00:53:42.240> have<00:53:42.319> to<00:53:42.400> be<00:53:42.559> very<00:53:42.720> very<00:53:43.119> once<00:53:43.359> we<00:53:43.520> understand<00:53:43.839> that<00:53:43.920> it's<00:53:44.079> a<00:53:44.160> headset.

00:53:45.040 --> 00:53:52.480
Um<00:53:45.520> when<00:53:45.760> I<00:53:45.920> see<00:53:46.160> something<00:53:46.319> that's<00:53:46.559> an<00:53:46.720> ant<00:53:47.680> it<00:53:48.000> I<00:53:48.240> may<00:53:48.400> be<00:53:48.559> in<00:53:49.359> before<00:53:49.760> something<00:53:50.000> that<00:53:50.160> is<00:53:50.400> just<00:53:50.559> far<00:53:50.880> superior<00:53:51.280> to<00:53:51.520> me<00:53:51.760> intellectually.

00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:56.079
Who<00:53:52.640> knows?<00:53:54.000> Quite<00:53:54.319> possible.

00:53:56.079 --> 00:54:03.200
And<00:53:56.480> um<00:53:56.559> just<00:53:56.720> to<00:53:56.960> pivot<00:53:57.200> a<00:53:57.359> little<00:53:57.440> bit<00:53:57.680> you<00:53:57.839> know<00:53:58.000> we<00:53:58.240> have<00:53:58.400> a<00:53:58.559> lot<00:53:58.720> of<00:53:58.800> our<00:53:58.960> viewers<00:53:59.359> they<00:53:59.760> they<00:53:59.920> they<00:54:00.880> ask<00:54:01.119> about<00:54:01.359> how<00:54:01.680> dreams<00:54:02.000> fit<00:54:02.160> into<00:54:02.400> the<00:54:02.559> framework.

00:54:03.200 --> 00:54:13.359
Yes.<00:54:03.520> You<00:54:03.760> know,<00:54:03.920> when<00:54:04.240> we<00:54:04.720> when<00:54:05.040> we<00:54:05.280> dream,<00:54:06.640> are<00:54:06.880> we<00:54:07.119> simply<00:54:07.680> creating<00:54:08.160> another<00:54:08.640> version<00:54:09.440> of<00:54:09.760> reality<00:54:10.240> within<00:54:10.720> consciousness<00:54:11.359> itself?

00:54:13.359 --> 00:54:19.520
Yeah,<00:54:13.599> that's<00:54:13.839> one<00:54:14.160> important<00:54:14.400> thing<00:54:14.480> to<00:54:14.720> think<00:54:14.800> about<00:54:15.040> dreams<00:54:15.359> is<00:54:15.599> there<00:54:16.000> there<00:54:16.319> you<00:54:16.559> would<00:54:16.800> most<00:54:17.119> people<00:54:17.280> would<00:54:17.520> say<00:54:18.240> um<00:54:18.400> the<00:54:18.640> dream<00:54:18.800> isn't<00:54:19.040> real,<00:54:19.280> right?

00:54:19.520 --> 00:54:22.559
It's<00:54:19.680> it's<00:54:19.920> it's<00:54:20.240> just<00:54:20.960> a<00:54:21.200> fiction<00:54:21.440> that<00:54:21.680> I'm<00:54:21.839> making<00:54:22.079> up.

00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:26.960
And<00:54:22.720> I<00:54:22.960> say,<00:54:23.200> well,<00:54:23.520> sure,<00:54:23.680> if<00:54:23.839> you<00:54:24.000> buy<00:54:24.160> that,<00:54:24.400> then<00:54:25.359> then<00:54:25.680> I'm<00:54:25.839> just<00:54:26.000> saying<00:54:26.319> so<00:54:26.559> is<00:54:26.720> this.

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:29.040
This<00:54:27.119> is<00:54:27.200> a<00:54:27.359> fiction<00:54:27.839> that<00:54:28.160> you<00:54:28.319> make<00:54:28.559> up.

00:54:29.040 --> 00:54:35.040
Um<00:54:29.440> but<00:54:29.760> some<00:54:30.000> fictions<00:54:30.640> engage<00:54:32.000> outside<00:54:32.400> the<00:54:32.640> headset<00:54:33.040> more<00:54:33.280> than<00:54:33.440> others,<00:54:34.559> right?

00:54:35.040 --> 00:54:44.640
So<00:54:35.280> some<00:54:36.000> so<00:54:36.400> this<00:54:36.960> most<00:54:37.200> of<00:54:37.280> the<00:54:37.440> time<00:54:37.599> this<00:54:37.839> seems<00:54:38.079> to<00:54:38.160> be<00:54:38.319> engaging<00:54:38.640> in<00:54:38.800> ways<00:54:38.960> that<00:54:39.119> we<00:54:39.280> really<00:54:39.520> have<00:54:39.680> to<00:54:39.760> take<00:54:40.240> seriously<00:54:41.520> in<00:54:41.760> dreams<00:54:42.319> perhaps<00:54:43.280> less.

00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:53.280
Now<00:54:46.640> there<00:54:46.880> are<00:54:48.319> non-speaking<00:54:48.960> autistics<00:54:49.599> for<00:54:49.680> example<00:54:50.160> who<00:54:50.559> live<00:54:50.720> in<00:54:50.880> worlds<00:54:51.920> that<00:54:52.319> we<00:54:52.559> don't<00:54:53.040> that

00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:58.000
most<00:54:54.000> speakers<00:54:55.599> and<00:54:56.400> don't<00:54:56.559> don't<00:54:57.040> experience.

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:01.119
And<00:54:58.400> for<00:54:58.720> all<00:54:58.800> I<00:54:58.960> know,<00:54:59.200> those<00:54:59.359> worlds<00:54:59.599> could<00:54:59.839> be<00:54:59.920> quite<00:55:00.319> quite<00:55:00.640> real.

00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:09.280
U<00:55:02.079> so<00:55:02.880> dreams<00:55:03.200> are<00:55:03.839> are<00:55:05.440> so<00:55:05.680> I<00:55:05.839> can't<00:55:06.000> rule<00:55:06.240> out<00:55:06.480> the<00:55:06.720> possibility<00:55:07.119> that<00:55:07.440> some<00:55:07.760> dreams<00:55:08.640> are<00:55:08.880> giving<00:55:09.119> us

00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:12.559
real<00:55:09.520> insight<00:55:09.839> into<00:55:10.240> everyday<00:55:11.040> to<00:55:11.119> to<00:55:11.440> reality<00:55:11.760> beyond<00:55:12.079> the<00:55:12.160> headset.

00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:17.520
I<00:55:12.720> don't<00:55:12.880> want<00:55:12.960> to<00:55:13.040> rule<00:55:13.280> that<00:55:13.440> out.<00:55:14.240> Um<00:55:14.960> but<00:55:15.200> I<00:55:15.359> don't<00:55:15.520> say<00:55:16.000> want<00:55:16.160> to<00:55:16.319> say<00:55:16.400> that<00:55:16.559> they<00:55:16.800> necessarily<00:55:17.280> do.

00:55:17.520 --> 00:55:22.880
So<00:55:17.680> I<00:55:17.839> think<00:55:18.079> there<00:55:18.400> we<00:55:18.640> have<00:55:18.720> to<00:55:18.960> have<00:55:19.839> uh<00:55:20.000> you<00:55:20.160> know<00:55:20.240> a<00:55:20.400> case<00:55:20.559> by<00:55:20.800> case<00:55:22.160> analysis.

00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:31.440
Um<00:55:25.280> my<00:55:25.440> my<00:55:25.839> guess<00:55:26.240> is<00:55:26.480> that

00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:40.160
there's<00:55:31.680> a<00:55:31.839> wide<00:55:32.079> range<00:55:32.720> of<00:55:33.040> stuff<00:55:33.280> going<00:55:33.440> on<00:55:33.599> with<00:55:33.839> dreams<00:55:34.559> that<00:55:35.200> some<00:55:35.520> some<00:55:35.839> dreams<00:55:36.960> are<00:55:37.599> uh<00:55:39.040> just<00:55:39.680> ruminating

00:55:40.160 --> 00:55:43.440
over<00:55:40.400> what<00:55:40.640> happened<00:55:40.800> today<00:55:41.280> and<00:55:41.520> that's<00:55:41.680> that's<00:55:42.240> basically<00:55:42.640> what<00:55:42.800> what's<00:55:43.119> going<00:55:43.200> on.

00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:52.240
you're<00:55:43.680> sort<00:55:43.839> of<00:55:44.000> working<00:55:44.319> through<00:55:44.559> some<00:55:45.200> stuff<00:55:45.359> that<00:55:45.599> happened<00:55:45.839> today<00:55:46.319> and<00:55:46.559> others<00:55:46.960> might<00:55:47.200> be<00:55:48.160> so<00:55:48.400> dreams<00:55:48.720> I<00:55:48.880> think<00:55:48.960> are<00:55:49.680> a<00:55:49.920> wide<00:55:50.240> range<00:55:50.640> of<00:55:51.200> possibilities<00:55:51.920> there

00:55:52.240 --> 00:56:00.480
from<00:55:52.720> the<00:55:53.040> the<00:55:54.240> banal<00:55:54.720> to<00:55:54.960> the<00:55:55.200> very<00:55:55.359> very<00:55:55.680> deep<00:55:56.240> um<00:55:57.440> I<00:55:57.680> don't<00:55:57.760> have<00:55:57.839> a<00:55:58.000> deep<00:55:58.160> theory<00:55:58.799> but<00:55:59.040> so<00:55:59.200> I<00:55:59.280> just<00:55:59.440> want<00:55:59.520> to<00:55:59.599> say<00:55:59.760> I<00:55:59.920> think<00:56:00.000> there's<00:56:00.160> a<00:56:00.319> whole

00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:09.839
range<00:56:00.720> of<00:56:00.880> possibilities<00:56:01.440> there<00:56:01.920> is<00:56:02.079> there<00:56:02.319> any<00:56:02.640> promising<00:56:03.200> research<00:56:03.520> so<00:56:03.760> far<00:56:03.920> on<00:56:04.079> on<00:56:04.400> dreams<00:56:04.880> and<00:56:05.040> and<00:56:05.520> consciousness<00:56:06.240> yet<00:56:06.640> that<00:56:06.880> you're<00:56:07.040> aware<00:56:07.280> of<00:56:07.440> or<00:56:07.680> no<00:56:08.559> well

00:56:09.839 --> 00:56:16.960
there<00:56:10.160> there's<00:56:10.640> there's<00:56:11.040> a<00:56:11.200> lot<00:56:11.359> of<00:56:11.520> research<00:56:12.000> on<00:56:12.240> on<00:56:12.319> on<00:56:12.799> dreams<00:56:13.520> Mhm.

00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:25.359
And<00:56:17.040> and<00:56:17.760> various<00:56:18.079> theories<00:56:18.559> for<00:56:18.799> for<00:56:18.960> examples<00:56:20.799> Francis<00:56:21.200> Crick<00:56:21.520> had<00:56:21.599> a<00:56:21.760> theory<00:56:22.160> about<00:56:22.480> dreams<00:56:22.880> that<00:56:23.359> there's<00:56:23.680> a<00:56:23.839> lot<00:56:23.920> of<00:56:24.240> connections<00:56:24.640> that<00:56:24.799> were<00:56:24.880> being<00:56:25.040> made.

00:56:25.359 --> 00:56:32.880
This<00:56:25.440> is<00:56:25.520> a<00:56:25.680> neurobiological<00:56:26.400> theory<00:56:26.640> and<00:56:26.799> there's<00:56:26.880> a<00:56:27.040> lot<00:56:27.119> of<00:56:27.200> connections<00:56:27.599> being<00:56:27.839> made<00:56:28.400> during<00:56:28.720> the<00:56:28.880> day<00:56:29.760> um<00:56:30.640> from<00:56:30.880> all<00:56:30.960> the<00:56:31.119> things<00:56:31.280> you're<00:56:31.440> seeing<00:56:31.680> and<00:56:31.920> and<00:56:32.400> some

00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:35.119
sense<00:56:33.119> at<00:56:33.359> night<00:56:33.680> you<00:56:33.920> need<00:56:34.079> to<00:56:34.240> prune<00:56:34.640> some<00:56:34.880> connections.

00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:42.559
you<00:56:35.280> need<00:56:35.520> to<00:56:36.000> reduce<00:56:36.319> some<00:56:36.480> of<00:56:36.559> the<00:56:36.720> neural<00:56:37.040> connections<00:56:37.359> and<00:56:37.599> dreaming<00:56:38.000> is<00:56:38.319> helping<00:56:38.559> you<00:56:38.720> to<00:56:38.880> reinforce<00:56:39.440> some<00:56:39.599> and<00:56:39.760> get<00:56:39.920> rid<00:56:40.079> of<00:56:40.559> certain<00:56:40.880> other<00:56:41.599> kinds<00:56:41.920> of<00:56:42.160> connections

00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:50.720
in<00:56:42.799> the<00:56:42.960> brain.<00:56:43.680> Um<00:56:44.400> and<00:56:44.559> then<00:56:44.720> there<00:56:44.880> are<00:56:45.040> of<00:56:45.200> course<00:56:45.520> the<00:56:45.680> the<00:56:45.920> more<00:56:46.240> you<00:56:46.400> know<00:56:46.799> um<00:56:48.640> psychotherapeutic<00:56:49.440> kinds<00:56:49.680> of<00:56:49.839> ideas<00:56:50.079> that<00:56:50.240> that<00:56:50.559> you

00:56:50.720 --> 00:56:58.240
might<00:56:50.880> be<00:56:51.119> processing<00:56:51.839> you<00:56:51.920> know<00:56:52.160> repressed<00:56:52.720> emotional<00:56:53.200> stuff<00:56:53.520> or<00:56:54.079> problems<00:56:54.400> that<00:56:54.640> you're<00:56:54.799> working<00:56:55.040> through<00:56:55.359> and<00:56:55.520> and<00:56:55.839> so<00:56:56.000> so<00:56:56.240> there's<00:56:56.400> a<00:56:56.480> wide<00:56:56.720> ranging<00:56:57.119> there's<00:56:57.359> neurobiology

00:56:58.240 --> 00:57:07.359
just<00:56:58.400> you're<00:56:58.720> pruning<00:56:59.119> synapses<00:57:00.000> there<00:57:00.240> could<00:57:00.400> be<00:57:00.640> you<00:57:00.799> know<00:57:01.200> um<00:57:01.839> psychiatric<00:57:03.359> Carl<00:57:03.680> Jung<00:57:03.920> had<00:57:04.160> his<00:57:04.319> own<00:57:04.480> view<00:57:04.640> as<00:57:04.799> well<00:57:04.960> I<00:57:05.119> think<00:57:05.520> that's<00:57:05.760> right<00:57:06.240> yes

00:57:07.359 --> 00:57:13.680
about<00:57:07.680> sub<00:57:08.240> I<00:57:08.400> I<00:57:08.640> don't<00:57:08.720> remember<00:57:09.040> exactly<00:57:09.599> subconsciously<00:57:10.480> it<00:57:10.720> is<00:57:10.960> there<00:57:11.200> is<00:57:11.359> some<00:57:11.520> interpretation<00:57:12.079> of<00:57:12.240> your<00:57:12.400> dreams<00:57:12.720> I<00:57:12.880> know<00:57:13.040> he<00:57:13.280> That's<00:57:13.520> right.

00:57:13.680 --> 00:57:17.040
So,<00:57:13.839> you're<00:57:14.000> dealing<00:57:14.160> with<00:57:14.400> subconscious<00:57:14.960> issues.<00:57:16.240> That's<00:57:16.480> right.

00:57:17.040 --> 00:57:25.280
That's<00:57:17.359> right.<00:57:18.160> Um,<00:57:19.680> so<00:57:20.079> I<00:57:20.640> and<00:57:21.920> here<00:57:22.240> though<00:57:22.559> I<00:57:22.799> I<00:57:23.040> think<00:57:23.520> um<00:57:24.799> there's<00:57:25.119> not

00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:30.000
a<00:57:25.440> lot<00:57:25.599> of<00:57:25.920> there's<00:57:26.240> not<00:57:26.960> I<00:57:27.200> think<00:57:27.359> a<00:57:27.599> final<00:57:27.920> accepted<00:57:28.400> theory<00:57:28.640> in<00:57:28.880> science<00:57:29.440> at<00:57:29.680> this<00:57:29.839> point.

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:38.000
I<00:57:30.240> think<00:57:30.319> that<00:57:30.559> there<00:57:30.799> are<00:57:30.880> a<00:57:30.960> lot<00:57:31.119> of<00:57:31.200> interesting<00:57:33.280> theories<00:57:33.680> that<00:57:33.839> I<00:57:33.920> would<00:57:34.079> say<00:57:34.160> are<00:57:34.400> little<00:57:35.119> pieces<00:57:35.520> of<00:57:35.680> the<00:57:35.839> puzzle<00:57:36.400> and<00:57:36.640> maybe<00:57:36.960> little<00:57:37.200> hints<00:57:37.440> about<00:57:37.599> what<00:57:37.839> might

00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:41.920
be<00:57:38.079> going<00:57:38.240> on,<00:57:38.400> but<00:57:38.640> I<00:57:38.720> think<00:57:38.799> we<00:57:38.960> don't<00:57:39.119> have<00:57:39.200> a<00:57:39.440> really<00:57:40.000> clear<00:57:40.400> understanding.

00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:45.359
So<00:57:42.160> I<00:57:42.319> don't,<00:57:42.480> I<00:57:42.640> would<00:57:42.720> say<00:57:42.880> that<00:57:43.040> there's<00:57:43.280> no<00:57:43.520> settled<00:57:44.000> view<00:57:44.160> in<00:57:44.400> science<00:57:44.640> about<00:57:44.880> dreaming.

00:57:45.359 --> 00:57:50.079
I'd<00:57:45.599> say<00:57:45.680> that<00:57:45.839> it's<00:57:46.000> a<00:57:46.160> work<00:57:46.240> in<00:57:46.480> progress.<00:57:48.240> And<00:57:48.480> Donald,<00:57:49.200> you<00:57:49.440> say<00:57:49.520> this<00:57:49.760> often.

00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:52.319
You<00:57:50.240> say<00:57:50.720> spacetime<00:57:51.200> is<00:57:51.440> doomed,<00:57:51.920> right?

00:57:52.319 --> 00:57:57.359
Yes.<00:57:52.720> Um,<00:57:53.359> for<00:57:53.599> a<00:57:53.839> normal<00:57:54.160> person<00:57:54.480> listening<00:57:54.799> who<00:57:55.040> does<00:57:55.280> not<00:57:55.440> know<00:57:55.760> exactly<00:57:56.160> what<00:57:56.400> you're<00:57:56.640> talking<00:57:56.880> about.

00:57:57.359 --> 00:57:59.920
What<00:57:57.599> would<00:57:57.680> you<00:57:57.839> say<00:57:57.920> to<00:57:58.079> them?<00:57:58.319> What<00:57:58.480> is,<00:57:58.799> what<00:57:59.040> does<00:57:59.200> it<00:57:59.440> actually<00:57:59.680> mean?

00:57:59.920 --> 00:58:04.480
And<00:58:00.160> does<00:58:00.319> it<00:58:00.480> mean<00:58:00.640> that<00:58:00.799> the<00:58:01.040> laws<00:58:01.280> of<00:58:01.440> physics<00:58:02.160> are<00:58:02.400> also<00:58:02.640> not<00:58:02.880> fundamental?

00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:09.200
Yes.<00:58:04.960> So<00:58:05.599> when<00:58:05.839> I<00:58:05.920> say<00:58:06.160> spacetime<00:58:06.559> is<00:58:06.799> doomed,<00:58:07.520> that's,<00:58:07.760> that's<00:58:08.160> not<00:58:08.319> an<00:58:08.559> original<00:58:08.799> with<00:58:09.040> me.

00:58:09.200 --> 00:58:17.839
That's<00:58:09.359> not<00:58:09.440> a<00:58:09.599> Hoffman.<00:58:10.319> That,<00:58:10.480> that's<00:58:10.880> actually,<00:58:11.920> uh,<00:58:14.160> there's<00:58:14.640> several,<00:58:15.760> more<00:58:16.000> than<00:58:16.240> one,<00:58:16.799> um,<00:58:17.280> theoretical

00:58:17.839 --> 00:58:25.040
physicist,<00:58:18.167> high-energy<00:58:18.494> theoretical<00:58:18.822> physicist<00:58:19.150> who,<00:58:19.477> who<00:58:19.805> is<00:58:20.133> saying<00:58:20.460> that.<00:58:20.788> So<00:58:21.116> Nima<00:58:21.443> Arkani-Hamed<00:58:21.771> has<00:58:22.099> said<00:58:22.426> that,<00:58:22.754> David<00:58:23.082> Gross,<00:58:23.409> and<00:58:23.737> I<00:58:24.065> think<00:58:24.392> several<00:58:24.720> others

00:58:25.040 --> 00:58:34.480
have<00:58:25.280> said<00:58:26.319> exactly<00:58:26.720> that<00:58:26.960> phrase<00:58:27.200> or,<00:58:27.359> or<00:58:27.680> words<00:58:27.920> to<00:58:28.160> that<00:58:28.319> effect,<00:58:28.559> that<00:58:28.799> spacetime<00:58:29.359> cannot<00:58:29.760> be<00:58:30.400> fundamental.<00:58:31.040> So<00:58:31.599> spacetime<00:58:32.079> is<00:58:32.319> doomed<00:58:34.079> simply

00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:42.720
because<00:58:34.960> it's<00:58:35.200> very,<00:58:35.440> very<00:58:35.680> simple<00:58:36.000> actually.<00:58:36.559> Um,<00:58:39.040> Einstein<00:58:39.599> tells<00:58:39.839> us<00:58:40.160> mass<00:58:40.400> and<00:58:40.640> energy<00:58:40.960> are<00:58:41.839> the<00:58:42.079> same<00:58:42.240> thing<00:58:42.480> up

00:58:42.720 --> 00:58:47.040
to<00:58:43.213> a<00:58:43.707> constant,<00:58:44.200> the<00:58:44.693> transformation<00:58:45.187> constant<00:58:45.680> E=mc^2.

00:58:47.040 --> 00:58:53.040
And<00:58:47.839> we<00:58:48.079> know<00:58:48.240> from<00:58:48.480> quantum<00:58:48.880> mechanics<00:58:49.119> that<00:58:49.359> if<00:58:49.440> you<00:58:49.599> want<00:58:49.680> to<00:58:49.839> look<00:58:50.000> at<00:58:50.160> something<00:58:50.319> that's<00:58:50.559> smaller<00:58:50.799> and<00:58:50.960> smaller,<00:58:51.280> you<00:58:51.440> just<00:58:51.599> need<00:58:51.680> to<00:58:51.839> use<00:58:52.000> radiation<00:58:52.480> with<00:58:52.720> smaller

00:58:53.040 --> 00:58:55.200
and<00:58:53.200> smaller<00:58:53.520> wavelengths,<00:58:54.799> right?

00:58:55.200 --> 00:58:59.920
To<00:58:55.440> resolve,<00:58:55.839> you<00:58:56.000> need<00:58:56.079> to<00:58:56.240> resolve<00:58:56.640> with<00:58:56.799> finer<00:58:57.040> wavelengths<00:58:57.440> of<00:58:57.599> light,<00:58:58.000> for<00:58:58.160> example,<00:58:58.559> or,<00:58:58.880> or<00:58:59.119> radiation.

00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:04.319
Well,<00:59:00.160> as<00:59:00.319> you<00:59:00.480> get<00:59:00.559> the<00:59:00.799> wavelengths<00:59:01.680> smaller,<00:59:02.240> the<00:59:02.559> energy<00:59:03.280> goes<00:59:03.520> up.

00:59:04.319 --> 00:59:09.839
E=hf<00:59:04.706> for<00:59:05.092> example.<00:59:05.479> And<00:59:05.866> as<00:59:06.253> the<00:59:06.640> energy<00:59:07.026> goes<00:59:07.413> up,<00:59:07.800> the<00:59:08.187> mass<00:59:08.573> goes<00:59:08.960> up.

00:59:09.839 --> 00:59:14.000
And<00:59:10.000> then<00:59:10.160> Einstein<00:59:10.640> tells<00:59:10.799> us,<00:59:11.040> well,<00:59:11.200> as<00:59:11.280> the<00:59:11.440> mass<00:59:11.599> goes<00:59:11.760> up,<00:59:12.079> space<00:59:12.319> is<00:59:12.480> curving<00:59:13.119> more.

00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:18.960
And<00:59:14.240> as<00:59:14.400> space<00:59:14.640> curves<00:59:15.040> more<00:59:15.200> and<00:59:15.359> more,<00:59:15.680> at<00:59:15.920> some<00:59:16.079> point<00:59:16.240> it<00:59:16.480> curves<00:59:16.720> so<00:59:16.880> much<00:59:16.960> that<00:59:17.119> you<00:59:17.280> create<00:59:17.440> a<00:59:17.599> black<00:59:17.760> hole.

00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:26.160
That's<00:59:19.226> the<00:59:19.491> problem.<00:59:19.757> So<00:59:20.022> as<00:59:20.288> you<00:59:20.553> try<00:59:20.819> to<00:59:21.084> look<00:59:21.350> at<00:59:21.616> something<00:59:21.881> smaller<00:59:22.147> and<00:59:22.412> smaller,<00:59:22.678> at<00:59:22.943> some<00:59:23.209> point<00:59:23.475> that<00:59:23.740> point<00:59:24.006> is<00:59:24.271> 10<00:59:24.537> to<00:59:24.802> the<00:59:25.068> minus<00:59:25.333> 33<00:59:25.599> centimeters.

00:59:26.160 --> 00:59:33.359
When<00:59:26.319> you<00:59:26.400> try<00:59:26.559> to<00:59:26.640> resolve<00:59:26.960> at<00:59:27.119> 10<00:59:27.280> to<00:59:27.359> the<00:59:27.440> minus,<00:59:27.680> roughly<00:59:28.000> 10<00:59:28.160> to<00:59:28.240> the<00:59:28.319> minus<00:59:28.559> 33<00:59:28.880> centimeters,<00:59:30.400> um,<00:59:31.040> the<00:59:31.280> energy<00:59:31.599> required<00:59:32.000> is<00:59:32.160> so<00:59:32.400> great<00:59:32.559> that<00:59:32.720> you<00:59:32.880> create<00:59:33.040> a<00:59:33.200> black

00:59:33.359 --> 00:59:37.520
hole<00:59:34.079> and<00:59:34.400> you<00:59:34.559> destroy<00:59:34.960> the<00:59:35.200> very<00:59:35.359> thing<00:59:35.520> you're,<00:59:35.760> you're<00:59:36.079> trying<00:59:36.160> to<00:59:36.319> create.

00:59:37.520 --> 00:59:42.240
Now<00:59:37.834> this<00:59:38.148> is<00:59:38.461> very<00:59:38.775> shallow.<00:59:39.089> It's<00:59:39.403> not<00:59:39.716> 10<00:59:40.030> to<00:59:40.344> the<00:59:40.658> minus<00:59:40.971> 33<00:59:41.285> trillion<00:59:41.599> centimeters.

00:59:42.240 --> 00:59:45.280
It's<00:59:42.465> 10<00:59:42.691> to<00:59:42.916> the<00:59:43.142> minus<00:59:43.367> 33<00:59:43.593> centimeters<00:59:43.818> and<00:59:44.044> it's<00:59:44.269> over<00:59:44.495> for<00:59:44.720> spacetime.

00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:50.240
It,<00:59:45.839> there's<00:59:46.160> nothing,<00:59:46.880> spacetime<00:59:47.680> is<00:59:48.000> no<00:59:48.240> longer<00:59:48.480> a<00:59:48.720> usable<00:59:49.119> framework<00:59:49.520> at<00:59:49.760> all.

00:59:50.240 --> 00:59:55.040
If<00:59:50.476> you<00:59:50.712> want<00:59:50.947> to<00:59:51.183> find<00:59:51.419> out<00:59:51.655> what's<00:59:51.891> happening<00:59:52.126> at<00:59:52.362> 10<00:59:52.598> to<00:59:52.834> the<00:59:53.069> minus<00:59:53.305> 40th<00:59:53.541> centimeters,<00:59:53.777> good<00:59:54.013> luck,<00:59:54.248> can't<00:59:54.484> do<00:59:54.720> it.

00:59:55.040 --> 00:59:59.040
You<00:59:55.327> simply<00:59:55.613> cannot<00:59:55.900> do<00:59:56.187> it.<00:59:56.473> You<00:59:56.760> want<00:59:57.047> 10<00:59:57.333> to<00:59:57.620> the<00:59:57.907> minus<00:59:58.193> 5<00:59:58.480> trillion.

00:59:59.040 --> 01:00:05.040
Can't<00:59:59.284> do<00:59:59.527> it.<00:59:59.771> You<01:00:00.015> can<01:00:00.258> only<01:00:00.502> go<01:00:00.745> up<01:00:00.989> to,<01:00:01.233> you<01:00:01.476> can<01:00:01.720> go<01:00:01.964> to<01:00:02.207> 10<01:00:02.451> to<01:00:02.695> the<01:00:02.938> minus<01:00:03.182> 32,<01:00:03.425> after<01:00:03.669> that,<01:00:03.913> good<01:00:04.156> luck,<01:00:04.400> jump.

01:00:05.040 --> 01:00:07.680
Spacetime<01:00:05.520> is<01:00:05.680> doomed.<01:00:06.079> So<01:00:06.240> it,<01:00:06.480> it<01:00:06.720> just<01:00:06.960> can't<01:00:07.200> do<01:00:07.359> it.

01:00:07.680 --> 01:00:11.839
So,<01:00:08.319> so<01:00:08.640> it's<01:00:09.119> that<01:00:09.359> sense<01:00:09.520> that<01:00:09.760> they,<01:00:10.000> they're<01:00:10.240> saying<01:00:10.480> spacetime<01:00:10.960> is<01:00:11.200> doomed.

01:00:11.839 --> 01:00:15.520
And<01:00:12.480> but<01:00:12.799> it's<01:00:13.119> not<01:00:13.280> that<01:00:13.520> they<01:00:13.760> then<01:00:13.920> go,<01:00:14.640> you<01:00:14.720> know,<01:00:14.799> we<01:00:14.960> can't<01:00:15.119> do<01:00:15.280> anything.

01:00:15.520 --> 01:00:24.559
We're,<01:00:16.197> we're<01:00:16.874> stuck.<01:00:17.551> Um,<01:00:18.227> in<01:00:18.904> 2013,<01:00:19.581> Nima<01:00:20.258> Arkani-Hamed<01:00:20.935> and<01:00:21.612> collaborators,<01:00:22.288> um,<01:00:22.965> published<01:00:23.642> a<01:00:24.319> paper

01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:33.680
on<01:00:24.720> something<01:00:24.960> called<01:00:25.040> the<01:00:25.200> amplituhedron.<01:00:26.640> And<01:00:26.880> it's<01:00:27.119> a<01:00:27.280> geometric<01:00:27.920> object,<01:00:28.720> a<01:00:28.960> positive<01:00:29.440> geometry<01:00:30.880> entirely<01:00:31.440> outside<01:00:31.760> of<01:00:31.920> spacetime,<01:00:33.119> entirely

01:00:33.680 --> 01:00:36.400
beyond<01:00:34.079> quantum<01:00:34.400> theory.<01:00:34.880> It<01:00:35.119> doesn't<01:00:35.359> care<01:00:35.599> about<01:00:35.839> spacetime.

01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:40.240
It<01:00:36.559> doesn't<01:00:36.720> care<01:00:36.880> about<01:00:37.200> locality.<01:00:38.480> It<01:00:38.720> doesn't<01:00:38.880> care<01:00:39.040> about<01:00:39.280> quantum<01:00:39.599> theory.

01:00:40.240 --> 01:00:42.880
It<01:00:40.400> doesn't<01:00:40.559> care<01:00:40.720> about<01:00:40.960> unitarity.<01:00:41.760> Doesn't<01:00:41.920> care<01:00:42.079> at<01:00:42.240> all.

01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:52.160
And<01:00:43.119> yet<01:00:43.680> it<01:00:43.920> encodes<01:00:45.839> beautifully<01:00:47.280> amplitudes<01:00:48.079> for<01:00:48.559> scattering<01:00:49.040> process<01:00:49.520> of,<01:00:49.760> of<01:00:50.000> particles<01:00:50.400> in<01:00:50.640> spacetime.

01:00:52.160 --> 01:00:57.599
So<01:00:54.079> that<01:00:54.400> was<01:00:55.839> a<01:00:56.160> first<01:00:56.400> real<01:00:56.720> breakthrough.

01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:05.200
There<01:00:57.839> were<01:00:58.000> earlier<01:00:58.319> hints.<01:00:58.799> Um,<01:01:00.559> but<01:01:00.799> there<01:01:01.040> were,<01:01:01.200> that<01:01:01.440> was<01:01:01.520> a<01:01:01.680> first<01:01:01.839> real<01:01:02.079> breakthrough<01:01:02.319> in<01:01:02.480> these<01:01:02.640> positive<01:01:02.960> geometries<01:01:04.000> and<01:01:04.240> there<01:01:04.400> have<01:01:04.559> been<01:01:04.720> several<01:01:04.960> other

01:01:05.200 --> 01:01:12.480
breakthroughs<01:01:05.599> such<01:01:05.839> that<01:01:06.160> just<01:01:06.480> a<01:01:06.720> year<01:01:06.799> or<01:01:06.960> two<01:01:07.040> ago<01:01:07.280> the<01:01:07.440> European<01:01:07.839> Research<01:01:08.240> Council<01:01:08.880> started<01:01:09.200> a<01:01:09.359> 10<01:01:09.599> million<01:01:09.839> euro<01:01:10.400> initiative<01:01:11.200> on<01:01:11.520> positive<01:01:11.920> geometries<01:01:12.319> and

01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:20.960
there,<01:01:13.046> there<01:01:13.612> are<01:01:14.178> many,<01:01:14.744> many<01:01:15.310> high-energy<01:01:15.876> theoretical<01:01:16.443> physicists<01:01:17.009> and<01:01:17.575> mathematicians<01:01:18.141> now<01:01:18.707> entirely<01:01:19.273> outside<01:01:19.839> spacetime.

01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:30.319
They're<01:01:21.280> working<01:01:21.839> on<01:01:22.240> positive<01:01:22.640> geometries<01:01:24.319> that<01:01:24.640> don't<01:01:24.880> care<01:01:25.040> about<01:01:25.280> quantum<01:01:25.599> theory,<01:01:26.720> do<01:01:26.960> not<01:01:27.119> care<01:01:27.280> about<01:01:27.599> spacetime,<01:01:28.400> locality<01:01:28.799> in<01:01:29.040> spacetime,

01:01:30.319 --> 01:01:34.880
and<01:01:30.559> yet<01:01:30.880> give<01:01:31.119> you<01:01:31.200> the<01:01:31.440> right<01:01:31.599> answers,<01:01:32.319> and<01:01:32.559> they<01:01:32.720> give<01:01:32.880> you,<01:01:33.599> I<01:01:33.760> mean,<01:01:34.000> there's<01:01:34.240> a<01:01:34.319> lot<01:01:34.400> of<01:01:34.480> work<01:01:34.559> to<01:01:34.640> be<01:01:34.720> done.

01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:37.760
I'm<01:01:35.040> not<01:01:35.119> saying<01:01:35.280> this<01:01:35.520> all<01:01:35.680> done,<01:01:36.000> but<01:01:36.319> they<01:01:36.559> give<01:01:36.640> you<01:01:36.960> where<01:01:37.119> they've<01:01:37.359> done<01:01:37.440> the<01:01:37.599> work.

01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:43.280
They<01:01:38.000> give<01:01:38.079> you<01:01:38.160> the<01:01:38.319> right<01:01:38.480> answers,<01:01:39.200> and<01:01:39.520> the<01:01:39.760> answers<01:01:40.079> are<01:01:40.319> much<01:01:40.559> more<01:01:40.799> simple<01:01:41.599> than<01:01:41.839> when<01:01:42.000> you<01:01:42.079> do<01:01:42.240> it<01:01:42.400> inside<01:01:42.799> spacetime.

01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:51.839
If<01:01:43.440> you,<01:01:43.599> if<01:01:43.839> you<01:01:43.920> try<01:01:44.079> to<01:01:44.240> actually<01:01:44.480> compute<01:01:45.200> scattering<01:01:45.680> amplitudes<01:01:46.400> inside<01:01:46.880> spacetime,<01:01:47.359> very<01:01:47.599> quickly,<01:01:48.319> you<01:01:48.559> can<01:01:48.720> have<01:01:49.200> hundreds<01:01:49.307> [snorts]<01:01:49.599> of<01:01:49.760> pages<01:01:50.400> of,<01:01:50.640> of<01:01:51.040> algebra,

01:01:51.839 --> 01:01:57.920
millions<01:01:52.240> of<01:01:52.400> terms,<01:01:53.280> and<01:01:53.520> when<01:01:53.680> you<01:01:53.839> go<01:01:53.920> outside<01:01:54.240> of<01:01:54.400> spacetime,<01:01:54.799> the<01:01:55.040> same<01:01:55.200> thing<01:01:55.440> could<01:01:55.680> be<01:01:55.839> done<01:01:56.000> in<01:01:56.640> two<01:01:56.799> or<01:01:57.040> three<01:01:57.200> terms.

01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:02.559
So<01:01:58.079> what<01:01:58.319> was<01:01:58.799> millions<01:01:59.200> of<01:01:59.280> terms<01:01:59.839> gets<01:02:00.240> reduced<01:02:00.880> to<01:02:01.440> three<01:02:01.680> or<01:02:01.920> four<01:02:02.160> terms.

01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:08.240
And<01:02:02.720> it's<01:02:02.960> very<01:02:03.200> much<01:02:03.359> like<01:02:03.520> what<01:02:03.760> happened<01:02:04.000> when<01:02:04.160> we<01:02:04.400> went<01:02:04.559> from

01:02:08.240 --> 01:02:15.680
epicycles.<01:02:08.531> Mhm.<01:02:08.822> You<01:02:09.114> could<01:02:09.405> get<01:02:09.696> the<01:02:09.987> right<01:02:10.278> answer<01:02:10.570> with<01:02:10.861> epicycles<01:02:11.152> of<01:02:11.443> how<01:02:11.734> the<01:02:12.026> planets<01:02:12.317> are<01:02:12.608> going<01:02:12.899> to<01:02:13.190> move<01:02:13.482> around,<01:02:13.773> but<01:02:14.064> you,<01:02:14.355> there<01:02:14.646> were<01:02:14.938> so<01:02:15.229> many<01:02:15.520> little

01:02:15.680 --> 01:02:20.079
epicycles<01:02:16.058> and<01:02:16.436> corrections<01:02:16.814> that<01:02:17.192> it<01:02:17.570> was<01:02:17.949> a<01:02:18.327> mess<01:02:18.705> to<01:02:19.083> compute<01:02:19.461> it<01:02:19.839> all.

01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:28.079
And<01:02:20.389> then<01:02:20.699> when<01:02:21.009> you<01:02:21.319> got<01:02:21.629> rid<01:02:21.939> of<01:02:22.249> the,<01:02:22.559> you<01:02:22.869> know,<01:02:23.179> the<01:02:23.489> epicycles<01:02:23.800> and<01:02:24.110> you<01:02:24.420> went<01:02:24.730> ellipses,<01:02:25.040> all<01:02:25.350> of<01:02:25.660> a<01:02:25.970> sudden<01:02:26.280> the<01:02:26.590> math<01:02:26.900> became<01:02:27.210> simpler,<01:02:27.520> right?

01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:35.680
The<01:02:28.319> computation<01:02:28.880> became<01:02:29.200> simpler<01:02:29.520> and<01:02:29.680> you<01:02:29.839> realize,<01:02:30.240> well,<01:02:30.480> the<01:02:30.720> reason<01:02:30.960> for<01:02:31.200> all<01:02:31.440> the<01:02:31.760> complexity<01:02:32.240> was<01:02:32.559> because<01:02:33.040> circles<01:02:33.440> are<01:02:33.680> just<01:02:33.920> the<01:02:34.160> wrong<01:02:34.319> tool.

01:02:35.680 --> 01:02:40.480
And<01:02:36.640> we<01:02:36.880> seem<01:02:37.119> to<01:02:37.200> be<01:02:37.359> seeing<01:02:37.599> the<01:02:37.760> same<01:02:37.920> thing<01:02:38.160> here.

01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:43.599
Spacetime<01:02:41.040> and<01:02:41.280> quantum<01:02:41.599> theory<01:02:41.920> are<01:02:42.160> just<01:02:42.400> the<01:02:42.640> wrong<01:02:42.880> tools.

01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:47.920
When<01:02:43.839> you<01:02:44.000> do<01:02:44.240> in<01:02:44.480> spacetime<01:02:44.799> and<01:02:44.960> quantum<01:02:45.200> theory,<01:02:45.520> you<01:02:45.760> can<01:02:45.839> get<01:02:45.920> the<01:02:46.160> scattering<01:02:46.480> amplitudes,<01:02:47.280> but<01:02:47.520> good<01:02:47.760> luck.

01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:53.599
It'll<01:02:48.160> be<01:02:48.319> millions<01:02:48.640> of<01:02:48.799> pages.<01:02:49.280> Just<01:02:49.440> like<01:02:49.920> with<01:02:50.160> the<01:02:50.319> epicycles,<01:02:50.880> it's<01:02:51.200> just<01:02:51.839> unnecessary<01:02:53.040> effort.

01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:57.119
You<01:02:53.839> step<01:02:54.079> entirely<01:02:54.480> outside<01:02:54.799> of<01:02:54.880> spacetime,<01:02:55.359> you<01:02:55.440> find<01:02:55.520> these<01:02:55.760> positive<01:02:56.079> geometries.

01:02:57.119 --> 01:03:04.880
The<01:02:57.599> volumes<01:02:58.640> and<01:02:58.880> the<01:02:59.119> surface<01:02:59.520> structures<01:02:59.920> and<01:03:00.160> the<01:03:00.480> facet<01:03:00.960> structures<01:03:02.079> give<01:03:02.319> you<01:03:03.040> all<01:03:03.280> these<01:03:03.680> fascinating<01:03:04.240> properties

01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:07.599
much<01:03:05.200> more<01:03:05.440> simply<01:03:05.920> and,<01:03:06.079> and,<01:03:06.160> and,<01:03:06.480> and<01:03:07.119> easily.

01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:15.599
So,<01:03:07.926> it's<01:03:08.253> giving<01:03:08.580> us<01:03:08.907> a<01:03:09.234> hint<01:03:09.561> that<01:03:09.888> not<01:03:10.215> only<01:03:10.542> is<01:03:10.869> spacetime<01:03:11.196> doomed,<01:03:11.522> but<01:03:11.849> once<01:03:12.176> we<01:03:12.503> step<01:03:12.830> outside<01:03:13.157> spacetime,<01:03:13.484> it's<01:03:13.811> going<01:03:14.138> to<01:03:14.465> be<01:03:14.792> really<01:03:15.119> interesting.

01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:22.480
We're<01:03:15.839> going<01:03:15.920> to<01:03:16.000> find<01:03:16.240> stuff.<01:03:17.359> Do<01:03:17.520> you<01:03:17.599> think<01:03:17.760> if<01:03:18.160> Einstein<01:03:18.640> was<01:03:18.799> alive<01:03:19.039> today,<01:03:19.280> he<01:03:19.520> would<01:03:19.680> be<01:03:19.920> open<01:03:20.079> to<01:03:20.319> this<01:03:20.480> direction<01:03:20.799> of<01:03:20.960> yours?

01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:27.280
Uh,<01:03:22.712> well,<01:03:22.943> it's<01:03:23.175> not<01:03:23.406> my<01:03:23.638> direction.<01:03:23.869> I<01:03:24.101> was,<01:03:24.333> I<01:03:24.564> would<01:03:24.796> be,<01:03:25.027> I<01:03:25.259> would<01:03:25.491> say<01:03:25.722> no,<01:03:25.954> these<01:03:26.185> are<01:03:26.417> high-energy<01:03:26.648> theoretical<01:03:26.880> physicists.

01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:34.000
I'm<01:03:27.440> just<01:03:27.520> a<01:03:27.680> humble<01:03:28.000> cognitive<01:03:28.400> scientist.<01:03:28.880> So,<01:03:29.119> but<01:03:29.359> these<01:03:29.599> physicists,<01:03:30.400> uh,<01:03:31.119> uh,<01:03:32.880> I,<01:03:33.119> I'll,<01:03:33.280> I'll<01:03:33.440> put<01:03:33.520> it<01:03:33.680> this<01:03:33.839> way.

01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:42.319
The,<01:03:34.480> um,<01:03:35.680> Einstein<01:03:37.119> was<01:03:37.359> ahead<01:03:37.599> of<01:03:37.760> his<01:03:37.920> time<01:03:38.160> and<01:03:38.400> I<01:03:38.559> suspect<01:03:38.880> that<01:03:39.039> he<01:03:39.200> would<01:03:39.440> love<01:03:39.599> to<01:03:39.760> be<01:03:39.920> with<01:03:40.079> the<01:03:40.240> people<01:03:40.319> that<01:03:40.559> are<01:03:40.640> ahead<01:03:40.880> of<01:03:40.960> their<01:03:41.119> time.

01:03:42.319 --> 01:03:49.599
Beautifully<01:03:42.640> said.<01:03:43.119> I<01:03:43.359> read<01:03:43.599> something<01:03:44.480> in<01:03:44.799> your<01:03:45.039> recent<01:03:45.359> paper,<01:03:45.760> Donald,<01:03:46.079> and<01:03:46.240> we'll<01:03:46.480> get<01:03:46.559> into<01:03:46.799> that<01:03:46.960> later<01:03:47.280> as<01:03:47.440> well,<01:03:47.599> but<01:03:47.920> you<01:03:48.079> basically<01:03:48.400> said<01:03:48.559> that<01:03:48.799> objects

01:03:49.599 --> 01:03:52.640
don't<01:03:49.839> exist<01:03:50.079> the<01:03:50.319> way<01:03:50.400> we<01:03:50.640> think<01:03:50.880> they<01:03:51.119> do<01:03:51.280> unless<01:03:51.599> they're<01:03:51.920> perceived.

01:03:52.640 --> 01:03:59.200
That's<01:03:52.799> right.<01:03:53.599> So,<01:03:54.160> what<01:03:54.319> if<01:03:54.559> someone<01:03:54.799> told<01:03:54.960> you<01:03:55.200> right<01:03:55.359> now<01:03:55.440> that,<01:03:55.680> let's<01:03:55.920> say,<01:03:56.079> all<01:03:56.240> of<01:03:56.480> the<01:03:56.720> three<01:03:56.880> of<01:03:57.039> us<01:03:57.200> leave<01:03:57.440> this<01:03:57.680> room<01:03:57.839> right<01:03:58.000> now<01:03:58.160> and<01:03:58.319> we<01:03:58.559> come<01:03:58.640> back<01:03:58.799> in<01:03:59.039> an

01:03:59.200 --> 01:04:04.960
hour,<01:03:59.520> but<01:03:59.760> the<01:04:00.000> cameras<01:04:00.400> are<01:04:00.559> rolling<01:04:01.440> and<01:04:01.839> we<01:04:02.079> come<01:04:02.240> back<01:04:02.319> in<01:04:02.559> an<01:04:02.720> hour<01:04:02.880> and<01:04:03.039> we<01:04:03.280> see<01:04:03.359> that<01:04:03.680> the<01:04:03.920> room<01:04:04.240> does<01:04:04.480> exist.

01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:09.359
Everything<01:04:05.280> was<01:04:05.520> recorded<01:04:05.839> on<01:04:06.079> that<01:04:06.319> camera.<01:04:07.039> How<01:04:07.280> would<01:04:07.440> you<01:04:07.599> respond<01:04:07.920> to<01:04:08.079> that?

01:04:09.359 --> 01:04:14.240
Uh,<01:04:09.668> well,<01:04:09.978> the,<01:04:10.287> the<01:04:10.597> cameras<01:04:10.906> that<01:04:11.215> recorded<01:04:11.525> it<01:04:11.834> only<01:04:12.144> exist<01:04:12.453> when<01:04:12.762> I<01:04:13.072> perceive<01:04:13.381> them<01:04:13.691> as<01:04:14.000> well.

01:04:14.240 --> 01:04:18.000
And<01:04:14.400> so,<01:04:15.039> that<01:04:15.280> recording<01:04:15.680> that<01:04:15.920> you<01:04:16.160> show<01:04:16.319> me<01:04:16.559> will<01:04:16.799> only<01:04:17.039> exist<01:04:17.280> when<01:04:17.440> I<01:04:17.599> perceive<01:04:17.839> it.

01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:22.319
And,<01:04:18.079> and<01:04:18.400> it<01:04:18.640> will,<01:04:18.880> it,<01:04:19.280> it<01:04:20.079> won't<01:04:20.319> exist<01:04:20.640> when<01:04:20.880> I<01:04:21.039> don't<01:04:21.359> perceive<01:04:21.680> it.

01:04:22.319 --> 01:04:30.400
You,<01:04:22.400> you<01:04:22.720> can<01:04:23.280> take<01:04:23.520> these<01:04:23.839> kinds<01:04:24.000> of<01:04:24.319> examples<01:04:24.880> and<01:04:25.280> create,<01:04:25.839> um,<01:04:26.480> artificial,<01:04:27.119> you<01:04:27.280> know,<01:04:27.760> virtual<01:04:28.160> headsets<01:04:28.720> in<01:04:28.960> which<01:04:29.200> you<01:04:29.359> have<01:04:29.440> a,<01:04:29.680> a<01:04:29.920> camera<01:04:30.160> in<01:04:30.319> the

01:04:30.400 --> 01:04:33.599
virtual<01:04:30.640> headset<01:04:31.039> recording<01:04:31.359> what's<01:04:31.520> going<01:04:31.599> on<01:04:31.760> in<01:04:31.920> the<01:04:32.079> virtual<01:04:32.319> space<01:04:32.720> and<01:04:32.960> do<01:04:33.039> the<01:04:33.200> same<01:04:33.359> thing.

01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:40.264
Um,<01:04:34.720> yeah,<01:04:36.240> it's<01:04:36.400> a<01:04:36.559> nice<01:04:36.720> try,<01:04:36.880> but<01:04:37.119> it<01:04:37.280> doesn't<01:04:37.359> get<01:04:37.440> you<01:04:37.680> what,<01:04:37.920> it<01:04:38.160> doesn't<01:04:38.240> get<01:04:38.319> you<01:04:38.480> the<01:04:38.640> objectivity<01:04:39.039> that<01:04:39.200> you're<01:04:39.359> hoping<01:04:39.599> for.

01:04:40.264 --> 01:04:49.760
[laughter]<01:04:40.799> Because<01:04:40.960> you<01:04:41.280> use<01:04:41.599> the,<01:04:41.760> the<01:04:42.000> headset<01:04:42.400> analogy<01:04:42.880> a<01:04:43.119> lot,<01:04:43.920> if<01:04:44.240> spacetime<01:04:44.880> is<01:04:45.200> not<01:04:45.440> fundamental,<01:04:46.160> why<01:04:46.319> does<01:04:46.480> it<01:04:46.640> feel<01:04:46.960> so<01:04:47.359> stable<01:04:47.839> and<01:04:48.240> so<01:04:48.880> consistent

01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:53.920
right<01:04:50.000> now<01:04:50.240> for<01:04:50.480> us?<01:04:51.200> Yes.

01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:58.960
That's<01:04:54.160> a<01:04:54.319> great<01:04:54.559> question.<01:04:55.440> Um,

01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:04.960
I<01:04:59.280> think<01:04:59.520> part<01:04:59.839> of<01:04:59.920> that<01:05:00.240> is<01:05:00.880> because<01:05:02.799> we<01:05:03.599> are<01:05:03.760> used<01:05:04.000> to<01:05:04.079> our<01:05:04.319> headsets.

01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:14.160
That's<01:05:05.200> all<01:05:05.359> we<01:05:05.599> know.<01:05:06.640> And<01:05:06.880> if<01:05:07.039> all,<01:05:07.200> if<01:05:07.440> that's<01:05:07.680> all<01:05:07.839> you<01:05:08.079> know,<01:05:09.119> it<01:05:09.359> seems<01:05:09.599> like<01:05:09.760> it's<01:05:10.160> defining<01:05:11.359> the<01:05:11.599> very<01:05:11.839> nature<01:05:12.079> of<01:05:12.240> reality<01:05:12.640> itself.

01:05:14.160 --> 01:05:22.480
Uh,<01:05:15.680> but<01:05:16.319> if<01:05:16.559> you're<01:05:18.319> a<01:05:18.640> 5-year-old<01:05:19.119> in<01:05:19.359> the<01:05:19.520> sandbox,<01:05:20.799> the<01:05:21.039> sandbox<01:05:21.440> might<01:05:21.680> feel<01:05:21.920> like<01:05:22.240> the

01:05:22.480 --> 01:05:27.920
whole<01:05:22.640> world,<01:05:22.880> too.<01:05:23.200> And<01:05:23.359> as<01:05:23.520> soon<01:05:23.680> as<01:05:23.839> mom<01:05:24.000> and<01:05:24.160> dad<01:05:24.319> want<01:05:24.480> to<01:05:24.559> pull<01:05:24.640> you<01:05:24.799> out<01:05:24.880> of<01:05:24.960> the<01:05:25.119> sandbox,<01:05:25.520> you<01:05:25.680> start<01:05:25.839> crying<01:05:26.079> and<01:05:26.319> saying,<01:05:27.359> "Why?

01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:32.400
I'm,<01:05:28.079> I'm<01:05:28.400> very<01:05:28.559> happy<01:05:28.720> here<01:05:28.880> in<01:05:29.039> this<01:05:29.200> sandbox.<01:05:29.599> There's,<01:05:29.760> there's<01:05:30.079> nothing<01:05:30.480> I<01:05:30.799> want<01:05:31.039> outside<01:05:31.359> the<01:05:31.520> sandbox."

01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:36.319
And<01:05:33.280> I<01:05:33.520> think<01:05:33.599> that<01:05:34.000> spacetime<01:05:34.480> feels<01:05:35.119> like<01:05:35.359> it's<01:05:35.599> the<01:05:35.760> reality.

01:05:36.319 --> 01:05:39.119
It's,<01:05:36.480> it's,<01:05:36.559> it's<01:05:37.839> the<01:05:38.079> way<01:05:38.240> things<01:05:38.720> should<01:05:38.960> be.

01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:45.039
And<01:05:39.359> of<01:05:39.520> course<01:05:39.760> embodiment<01:05:40.880> is<01:05:41.760> natural<01:05:42.079> for<01:05:42.400> consciousness.

01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:53.760
My<01:05:45.280> own<01:05:45.440> view<01:05:46.240> just<01:05:46.559> in<01:05:46.720> the<01:05:46.960> last<01:05:47.599> six<01:05:47.839> weeks<01:05:48.240> has<01:05:48.480> changed<01:05:48.720> on<01:05:48.960> this,<01:05:49.680> really,<01:05:50.000> because<01:05:50.240> of<01:05:50.400> the<01:05:50.559> math<01:05:50.880> that<01:05:51.200> I'm<01:05:51.359> doing<01:05:51.599> with,<01:05:51.760> with<01:05:52.000> this<01:05:52.240> trace<01:05:52.559> logic.

01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:57.920
It<01:05:54.000> turns<01:05:54.160> out<01:05:54.240> I<01:05:54.480> can<01:05:54.559> ask<01:05:54.799> a<01:05:54.960> technical<01:05:55.359> question<01:05:55.680> from<01:05:55.839> the<01:05:56.079> trace<01:05:56.319> logic.

01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:03.839
What<01:05:59.520> is<01:05:59.680> the<01:05:59.920> probability<01:06:00.480> that<01:06:00.799> a<01:06:01.119> generic<01:06:01.520> consciousness<01:06:02.640> will<01:06:02.960> be<01:06:03.119> embodied?

01:06:03.839 --> 01:06:06.640
What,<01:06:04.000> what<01:06:04.559> is<01:06:04.640> the<01:06:04.720> probability<01:06:05.039> of<01:06:05.200> consciousness<01:06:05.680> being<01:06:05.920> embodied?

01:06:06.640 --> 01:06:10.400
Mhm.<01:06:07.440> And<01:06:07.680> I,<01:06:07.760> I<01:06:08.079> was<01:06:08.160> hoping<01:06:08.400> it<01:06:08.559> was<01:06:08.720> generic.

01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:13.039
And<01:06:10.720> when<01:06:10.880> I<01:06:11.039> look<01:06:11.119> at<01:06:11.200> the<01:06:11.359> math,<01:06:11.680> it's<01:06:12.079> very,<01:06:12.319> very<01:06:12.559> clear.

01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:16.960
Um,<01:06:13.760> consciousness<01:06:14.319> is<01:06:14.480> like<01:06:15.039> ours<01:06:15.280> that<01:06:15.440> are<01:06:15.599> trapped<01:06:15.920> in<01:06:16.160> bodies.

01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:22.240
Our<01:06:17.200> probabilities<01:06:17.839> are<01:06:18.000> all,<01:06:19.119> the<01:06:19.440> math<01:06:19.599> that<01:06:19.760> I'm<01:06:19.920> working<01:06:20.079> on<01:06:20.319> makes<01:06:20.559> that<01:06:20.880> very,<01:06:21.119> very<01:06:21.440> clear.

01:06:22.240 --> 01:06:25.680
Uh,<01:06:22.799> and<01:06:22.880> so<01:06:23.039> I,<01:06:23.200> I<01:06:23.440> tried<01:06:23.599> to<01:06:23.760> change<01:06:23.920> my<01:06:24.160> math.

01:06:25.680 --> 01:06:29.920
I<01:06:26.079> didn't<01:06:26.319> really<01:06:27.039> like<01:06:27.280> that,<01:06:27.839> uh,<01:06:28.960> consequence.

01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:34.240
And<01:06:30.160> I<01:06:30.319> found<01:06:30.480> that<01:06:30.720> I<01:06:30.880> could<01:06:31.039> not<01:06:31.200> change<01:06:31.359> the<01:06:31.520> math<01:06:31.920> without<01:06:32.240> destroying<01:06:32.559> the<01:06:32.799> entire<01:06:33.119> logic.

01:06:34.240 --> 01:06:40.079
So,<01:06:34.640> so,<01:06:35.680> so<01:06:35.920> in<01:06:36.079> the<01:06:36.160> last<01:06:36.319> six<01:06:36.480> weeks<01:06:36.799> I've,<01:06:37.280> um,<01:06:38.400> changed,<01:06:38.799> I,<01:06:39.039> I<01:06:39.359> listen<01:06:39.599> to<01:06:39.760> math.

01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:44.720
I<01:06:40.319> listen<01:06:40.559> to<01:06:41.119> the<01:06:41.359> theories.<01:06:41.760> I<01:06:41.920> can't<01:06:42.079> find<01:06:42.240> anything<01:06:42.480> wrong<01:06:42.720> with<01:06:42.799> this<01:06:42.960> theory<01:06:43.200> and<01:06:43.359> I<01:06:43.520> can't<01:06:43.680> find<01:06:43.839> anything<01:06:44.079> wrong<01:06:44.240> with<01:06:44.319> the<01:06:44.400> math.

01:06:44.720 --> 01:06:53.119
So,<01:06:44.880> my<01:06:45.119> attitude<01:06:45.520> right<01:06:45.760> now<01:06:45.920> is,<01:06:47.039> um,<01:06:47.760> my<01:06:48.079> current<01:06:48.319> view<01:06:48.640> is<01:06:48.880> that<01:06:49.359> embodied<01:06:49.920> consciousness<01:06:50.480> is<01:06:50.799> the<01:06:51.039> exception<01:06:52.480> and<01:06:52.640> what<01:06:52.880> we

01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:56.079
thought<01:06:53.359> was<01:06:53.839> necessary,<01:06:54.240> that<01:06:54.400> you<01:06:54.559> can't<01:06:54.799> be<01:06:55.039> conscious<01:06:55.280> without<01:06:55.520> a<01:06:55.760> body.

01:06:56.079 --> 01:07:01.440
So,<01:06:56.240> most<01:06:56.400> of<01:06:56.559> my<01:06:56.720> colleagues<01:06:57.440> in<01:06:57.680> neuroscience,<01:06:58.319> for<01:06:58.400> example,<01:06:58.880> are<01:06:59.200> trying<01:06:59.280> to<01:06:59.440> figure<01:06:59.520> out<01:06:59.680> how<01:06:59.920> neural<01:07:00.240> activity<01:07:00.559> creates<01:07:00.880> consciousness.

01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:05.359
So<01:07:01.680> of<01:07:01.839> course<01:07:02.000> consciousness<01:07:02.480> is<01:07:02.640> embodied<01:07:03.039> because<01:07:03.440> bodies<01:07:04.160> make<01:07:04.400> consciousness,<01:07:05.039> right?

01:07:05.359 --> 01:07:12.960
So<01:07:05.839> now,<01:07:06.400> so<01:07:06.559> if<01:07:06.720> you<01:07:06.960> have<01:07:07.119> the<01:07:07.359> feeling<01:07:07.599> of<01:07:07.839> being<01:07:08.640> disembodied,<01:07:09.359> that's<01:07:09.680> where<01:07:10.319> you,<01:07:10.559> you're<01:07:10.720> having<01:07:10.880> an<01:07:11.119> illusion<01:07:11.440> because<01:07:11.760> you<01:07:12.000> are<01:07:12.160> always<01:07:12.400> embodied.

01:07:12.960 --> 01:07:15.839
Your<01:07:13.119> consciousness<01:07:13.440> always<01:07:13.680> comes<01:07:13.920> from<01:07:14.000> a<01:07:14.160> body.<01:07:14.400> That's<01:07:14.559> the<01:07:14.720> standard<01:07:15.039> view.

01:07:15.839 --> 01:07:25.200
And,<01:07:16.400> um,<01:07:18.400> I'm<01:07:18.720> now<01:07:18.960> saying<01:07:20.319> the<01:07:20.559> math<01:07:20.799> that<01:07:20.960> I'm<01:07:21.119> working<01:07:21.280> on<01:07:21.599> tells<01:07:21.920> me<01:07:22.480> the<01:07:22.799> probability<01:07:23.200> is<01:07:23.440> zero<01:07:24.880> that

01:07:25.200 --> 01:07:33.760
consciousness<01:07:25.760> is<01:07:26.000> tied<01:07:26.319> to<01:07:26.559> bodies.<01:07:27.200> So,<01:07:27.520> we're<01:07:28.640> in<01:07:28.880> a<01:07:29.119> particular<01:07:29.440> kind<01:07:29.680> of<01:07:29.920> trivial<01:07:30.400> headset<01:07:31.520> with<01:07:31.839> training<01:07:32.160> wheels<01:07:32.720> where<01:07:32.960> you're<01:07:33.280> stuck

01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:41.200
with<01:07:34.000> your<01:07:34.240> body.<01:07:34.640> One<01:07:34.880> way<01:07:34.960> to<01:07:35.119> think<01:07:35.280> about<01:07:35.440> this<01:07:35.680> is<01:07:37.119> just<01:07:37.359> think<01:07:37.520> about<01:07:37.760> your<01:07:38.000> visual<01:07:38.319> experiences.

01:07:41.200 --> 01:07:48.000
My<01:07:41.566> visual<01:07:41.931> experiences<01:07:42.297> and<01:07:42.663> your<01:07:43.028> visual<01:07:43.394> experiences<01:07:43.760> are<01:07:44.125> very,<01:07:44.491> very<01:07:44.856> special<01:07:45.222> in<01:07:45.588> a<01:07:45.953> particular<01:07:46.319> way.

01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:54.720
Everywhere<01:07:48.480> I<01:07:48.640> look,<01:07:49.520> I<01:07:49.839> always<01:07:50.079> see<01:07:50.319> my<01:07:50.559> nose<01:07:52.000> and<01:07:52.240> it<01:07:52.480> always<01:07:52.720> looks<01:07:52.960> the<01:07:53.200> same.

01:07:54.720 --> 01:07:56.559
Pretty<01:07:54.960> much<01:07:55.680> certainly<01:07:56.000> the<01:07:56.160> same<01:07:56.319> shape.

01:07:56.559 --> 01:08:05.359
Maybe<01:07:56.720> the<01:07:56.880> same<01:07:57.200> lighting<01:07:57.440> is<01:07:57.599> different,<01:07:58.079> but,<01:07:58.240> but<01:07:58.559> the<01:07:58.720> shape,<01:08:00.559> and<01:08:00.799> you<01:08:00.960> can<01:08:01.039> ask<01:08:01.359> a<01:08:01.680> simple<01:08:01.920> question<01:08:02.400> of<01:08:02.720> all<01:08:02.880> the<01:08:03.839> possible<01:08:04.559> views

01:08:05.359 --> 01:08:09.119
of<01:08:05.599> the<01:08:05.760> world<01:08:05.920> I<01:08:06.079> could<01:08:06.160> have,<01:08:06.400> how<01:08:06.640> many<01:08:06.720> of<01:08:06.880> those<01:08:07.039> views,<01:08:07.359> what<01:08:07.599> fraction<01:08:07.839> of<01:08:07.920> them<01:08:08.079> have<01:08:08.400> my<01:08:08.559> nose<01:08:08.799> in<01:08:08.880> them?

01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:12.960
And<01:08:09.791> it's<01:08:10.463> zero.<01:08:11.136> 0%<01:08:11.808> of<01:08:12.480> them.

01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:18.799
So<01:08:13.520> I,<01:08:13.760> I'd<01:08:14.000> have<01:08:14.079> to<01:08:14.160> give<01:08:14.319> more<01:08:14.640> insight<01:08:14.960> into<01:08:15.200> my<01:08:15.359> mathematical<01:08:15.760> framework,<01:08:16.080> but<01:08:16.239> that's<01:08:16.400> when<01:08:16.560> you<01:08:16.719> go<01:08:16.799> into<01:08:16.960> the<01:08:17.040> mathematical<01:08:17.440> framework,<01:08:17.839> it's<01:08:18.080> basically<01:08:18.560> the

01:08:18.799 --> 01:08:23.120
fraction<01:08:19.600> of<01:08:19.920> visual<01:08:20.799> experiences<01:08:21.359> that<01:08:21.600> have<01:08:21.759> to<01:08:21.920> have<01:08:22.080> my<01:08:22.159> nose<01:08:22.319> in<01:08:22.480> it<01:08:22.640> is<01:08:22.799> zero.

01:08:23.120 --> 01:08:31.679
0%.<01:08:24.080> And<01:08:24.319> so<01:08:24.640> when<01:08:24.880> I<01:08:25.040> realized<01:08:25.279> that,<01:08:25.520> it<01:08:25.600> was<01:08:25.679> sort<01:08:25.839> of<01:08:25.920> like,<01:08:26.480> so,<01:08:26.719> so<01:08:26.960> now<01:08:27.120> I'm<01:08:27.359> talking<01:08:27.520> about<01:08:27.759> people,<01:08:28.159> I'm<01:08:28.400> talking<01:08:28.640> with<01:08:28.880> people,<01:08:30.159> for<01:08:30.319> example,<01:08:31.440> just

01:08:31.679 --> 01:08:40.239
in<01:08:31.920> the<01:08:32.080> last<01:08:32.560> week<01:08:32.719> or<01:08:32.960> two,<01:08:33.600> non-speaking<01:08:34.239> autistics<01:08:35.839> who<01:08:36.400> claim<01:08:36.719> to<01:08:36.880> have<01:08:38.000> experiences<01:08:38.560> where<01:08:38.799> they're<01:08:38.960> disembodied.

01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:43.199
Okay.<01:08:40.719> And<01:08:40.960> so<01:08:41.279> I<01:08:41.679> can<01:08:41.920> ask<01:08:42.080> them<01:08:42.239> this<01:08:42.480> specific<01:08:42.880> question.

01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:46.960
When<01:08:43.359> you're<01:08:43.520> disembodied,<01:08:44.159> do<01:08:44.239> you<01:08:44.400> see<01:08:44.480> a<01:08:44.640> nose?<01:08:46.640> Right?

01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:53.839
That's<01:08:47.120> the<01:08:47.520> I<01:08:47.679> say,<01:08:47.920> "And<01:08:48.159> if<01:08:48.319> you<01:08:48.480> don't<01:08:48.640> see<01:08:48.799> a<01:08:48.960> nose,<01:08:50.159> then<01:08:50.560> they're<01:08:50.880> not<01:08:51.120> stuck<01:08:51.359> in<01:08:51.520> the<01:08:51.679> same<01:08:51.839> kind<01:08:51.920> of<01:08:52.080> headset<01:08:52.480> that<01:08:52.640> we're<01:08:52.799> stuck<01:08:53.040> in."

01:08:53.839 --> 01:08:58.719
And<01:08:54.159> I've<01:08:54.480> got<01:08:54.640> one<01:08:54.880> who's<01:08:55.279> told<01:08:55.440> me,<01:08:55.759> "No,<01:08:57.040> really,<01:08:57.440> they<01:08:57.679> don't<01:08:57.759> see<01:08:57.920> a<01:08:58.080> nose.

01:08:58.719 --> 01:09:01.920
They<01:08:58.960> don't<01:08:59.120> see<01:08:59.279> anybody.<01:09:00.159> There's<01:09:00.400> no<01:09:00.640> body<01:09:00.960> at<01:09:01.199> all."

01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:07.759
And<01:09:02.080> and<01:09:02.719> there<01:09:02.960> are<01:09:03.199> reports<01:09:03.600> of<01:09:03.759> others<01:09:04.239> that<01:09:04.640> aren't<01:09:04.960> stuck<01:09:05.279> in<01:09:06.159> vision<01:09:06.560> in<01:09:06.799> just<01:09:07.040> the<01:09:07.279> front.

01:09:07.759 --> 01:09:10.319
They<01:09:07.920> see<01:09:08.159> 360.<01:09:08.880> There's<01:09:09.120> no<01:09:09.279> nose<01:09:09.520> in<01:09:09.679> the<01:09:09.759> 360.

01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:18.480
They<01:09:10.560> see<01:09:10.799> 360.<01:09:12.239> So<01:09:13.600> this<01:09:13.759> is<01:09:13.920> what<01:09:14.159> the<01:09:14.400> reason<01:09:14.560> I<01:09:14.799> started<01:09:15.040> asking<01:09:15.359> these<01:09:16.159> non-speaking<01:09:16.880> autistics<01:09:17.279> and<01:09:17.440> others<01:09:17.679> this<01:09:17.920> question<01:09:18.080> just<01:09:18.239> in<01:09:18.400> the

01:09:18.480 --> 01:09:26.719
last<01:09:18.640> six<01:09:18.799> weeks<01:09:18.960> is<01:09:19.199> because<01:09:20.239> my<01:09:20.560> math<01:09:20.960> slapped<01:09:21.279> me<01:09:21.359> in<01:09:21.520> the<01:09:21.600> face<01:09:21.759> six<01:09:22.000> weeks<01:09:22.159> ago<01:09:22.719> and<01:09:23.040> said<01:09:23.920> this<01:09:24.159> is<01:09:25.359> embodiment<01:09:25.920> is<01:09:26.080> measure<01:09:26.400> zero.

01:09:26.719 --> 01:09:34.480
So<01:09:26.880> now<01:09:27.040> I'm<01:09:27.279> exploring<01:09:27.679> the<01:09:27.839> world<01:09:28.159> for<01:09:28.239> example<01:09:28.640> that<01:09:29.040> Kai<01:09:29.279> Dickens<01:09:29.679> has<01:09:29.920> and<01:09:30.080> the<01:09:30.239> telepathy<01:09:30.719> tapes<01:09:31.040> and<01:09:32.000> the<01:09:32.159> math<01:09:32.400> has<01:09:32.560> forced<01:09:32.799> me<01:09:32.960> to<01:09:33.199> take<01:09:33.440> this<01:09:33.600> stuff<01:09:33.920> very<01:09:34.159> very

01:09:34.480 --> 01:09:43.279
seriously<01:09:35.679> and<01:09:36.400> I'm<01:09:36.640> starting<01:09:36.880> to<01:09:37.040> explore<01:09:37.440> myself<01:09:38.080> um<01:09:38.480> the<01:09:38.719> the<01:09:38.880> the<01:09:39.759> telepathic<01:09:40.560> abilities<01:09:41.040> and<01:09:41.279> the<01:09:41.359> the<01:09:41.679> seeing<01:09:42.000> abilities<01:09:42.719> because

01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:46.719
it<01:09:43.600> it<01:09:43.920> looks<01:09:44.080> to<01:09:44.239> me<01:09:44.400> like<01:09:45.279> um<01:09:46.080> it's<01:09:46.319> possible.

01:09:46.719 --> 01:09:50.960
Now<01:09:46.960> I<01:09:47.120> should<01:09:47.279> say<01:09:47.759> this<01:09:48.560> it's<01:09:48.799> one<01:09:48.960> thing<01:09:49.120> for<01:09:49.359> me<01:09:49.520> as<01:09:49.679> a<01:09:49.839> scientist<01:09:50.080> to<01:09:50.319> be<01:09:50.400> open<01:09:50.560> to<01:09:50.719> this.

01:09:50.960 --> 01:09:57.360
It's<01:09:51.040> another<01:09:51.279> thing<01:09:51.440> to<01:09:51.520> be<01:09:51.600> gullible.<01:09:53.120> So<01:09:54.480> I<01:09:54.800> did<01:09:55.280> have<01:09:56.320> I'm<01:09:56.560> not<01:09:56.640> going<01:09:56.719> to<01:09:56.800> mention<01:09:56.960> any<01:09:57.199> name.

01:09:57.360 --> 01:10:06.159
I<01:09:57.520> just<01:09:57.600> had<01:09:57.760> a<01:09:57.920> Swami<01:09:58.400> I'll<01:09:58.560> just<01:09:59.440> about<01:09:59.840> 20<01:10:00.239> 25<01:10:00.640> years<01:10:00.800> ago<01:10:01.040> who<01:10:02.560> um<01:10:02.640> is<01:10:03.199> near<01:10:03.440> to<01:10:03.600> where<01:10:03.760> I<01:10:03.920> I<01:10:04.880> teach<01:10:05.040> at<01:10:05.199> UC<01:10:05.520> Irvine

01:10:06.159 --> 01:10:14.640
and<01:10:06.400> one<01:10:06.640> of<01:10:06.719> my<01:10:06.880> graduate<01:10:07.199> students<01:10:07.440> was<01:10:09.600> a<01:10:09.840> follower<01:10:10.719> and<01:10:10.960> he<01:10:11.120> had<01:10:11.360> this<01:10:11.760> book<01:10:12.239> about<01:10:12.880> experiments<01:10:13.360> that<01:10:13.520> he'd<01:10:13.760> done<01:10:14.080> showing<01:10:14.400> he

01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:23.440
had<01:10:14.719> all<01:10:14.800> these<01:10:15.040> telepathic<01:10:15.600> and<01:10:15.760> other<01:10:15.920> kinds<01:10:16.080> of<01:10:16.239> powers<01:10:16.800> telekinetic<01:10:17.440> power<01:10:17.840> and<01:10:18.080> he<01:10:18.320> wanted<01:10:18.480> a<01:10:18.640> UC<01:10:19.040> professor<01:10:19.600> me<01:10:20.239> to<01:10:21.199> prove<01:10:21.440> in<01:10:21.600> the<01:10:21.760> lab<01:10:21.840> that<01:10:22.000> he<01:10:22.159> had<01:10:22.239> these<01:10:22.480> powers.

01:10:23.440 --> 01:10:29.760
So<01:10:23.760> my<01:10:23.920> and<01:10:24.080> I<01:10:24.159> I<01:10:24.400> looked<01:10:24.640> at<01:10:24.800> his<01:10:25.360> write<01:10:25.600> up<01:10:25.760> of<01:10:25.920> his<01:10:26.080> experiments<01:10:27.120> and<01:10:27.360> I'm<01:10:27.600> I'm<01:10:28.719> I<01:10:28.960> do<01:10:29.120> psychophysics.

01:10:29.760 --> 01:10:35.840
So<01:10:30.080> this<01:10:30.560> hard-nosed<01:10:31.440> careful<01:10:33.199> experiments<01:10:33.760> on<01:10:34.080> human<01:10:34.320> perception.

01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:41.280
And<01:10:36.480> so<01:10:36.640> I<01:10:36.880> realized<01:10:37.120> that<01:10:37.360> his<01:10:37.679> experiments<01:10:38.800> wouldn't<01:10:39.199> pass<01:10:39.520> muster<01:10:39.840> for<01:10:40.000> any<01:10:40.239> scientific.

01:10:41.280 --> 01:10:45.280
So<01:10:41.440> I<01:10:41.679> thought<01:10:41.840> this<01:10:42.000> is<01:10:42.080> a<01:10:42.239> great<01:10:42.960> way<01:10:43.199> to<01:10:43.520> you<01:10:43.679> know<01:10:43.920> teach<01:10:44.159> my<01:10:44.400> graduate<01:10:44.719> student.

01:10:45.280 --> 01:10:52.480
Let's<01:10:45.600> look<01:10:45.760> at<01:10:46.000> four<01:10:46.159> or<01:10:46.320> five<01:10:46.640> of<01:10:46.880> his<01:10:47.120> experiments,<01:10:48.719> see<01:10:48.960> the<01:10:49.120> flaws,<01:10:50.320> fix<01:10:50.560> the<01:10:50.800> flaws,<01:10:51.679> and<01:10:51.840> then<01:10:52.080> run<01:10:52.239> them.

01:10:52.480 --> 01:10:54.960
I'd<01:10:52.719> be<01:10:52.880> happy<01:10:52.960> to<01:10:53.120> run<01:10:53.360> him<01:10:53.920> on<01:10:54.159> a<01:10:54.400> good<01:10:54.560> experiment.

01:10:54.960 --> 01:10:59.280
I<01:10:55.120> would<01:10:55.199> not<01:10:55.360> run<01:10:55.520> him<01:10:55.679> on<01:10:55.840> his<01:10:56.080> experiment<01:10:56.560> because<01:10:56.960> you<01:10:57.199> could<01:10:57.360> drive<01:10:57.520> a<01:10:57.679> truck<01:10:57.840> through<01:10:58.000> the<01:10:58.080> holes.

01:10:59.280 --> 01:11:02.960
So,<01:11:00.239> so<01:11:00.960> she,<01:11:01.760> my<01:11:02.080> graduate<01:11:02.400> student,<01:11:02.640> did<01:11:02.800> it.

01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:06.320
We<01:11:03.120> we<01:11:03.440> fixed<01:11:03.760> the<01:11:03.920> the<01:11:04.320> flaws.<01:11:05.280> We<01:11:05.520> brought<01:11:05.760> him<01:11:05.920> in.

01:11:06.320 --> 01:11:10.480
I<01:11:06.560> left<01:11:07.199> my<01:11:07.520> lab.<01:11:07.920> So,<01:11:08.159> because<01:11:08.320> there's<01:11:08.640> this<01:11:08.800> disbeliever<01:11:09.440> effect.

01:11:10.480 --> 01:11:15.360
Um,<01:11:10.719> and<01:11:10.960> so<01:11:11.120> I<01:11:11.280> just<01:11:11.440> I<01:11:11.679> left<01:11:11.920> I,<01:11:12.159> you<01:11:12.320> know,<01:11:12.400> shook<01:11:12.640> his<01:11:12.800> hand<01:11:12.960> and<01:11:13.520> welcomed<01:11:13.920> him<01:11:14.080> to<01:11:14.239> my<01:11:14.320> lab<01:11:14.480> and<01:11:14.719> then<01:11:14.960> left.

01:11:15.360 --> 01:11:20.239
And<01:11:15.600> she<01:11:15.760> she<01:11:16.159> did<01:11:16.400> ran<01:11:16.640> the<01:11:16.800> experiments.<01:11:17.679> And<01:11:18.719> we<01:11:18.960> didn't<01:11:19.199> have<01:11:19.280> to<01:11:19.360> do<01:11:19.520> any<01:11:19.760> analysis.

01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:26.000
There<01:11:20.400> was<01:11:20.560> not<01:11:20.719> a<01:11:20.880> single<01:11:21.120> trial<01:11:21.520> in<01:11:21.760> any<01:11:22.000> experiment<01:11:22.320> in<01:11:22.400> which<01:11:22.480> he<01:11:22.640> showed<01:11:22.880> any<01:11:23.120> powers<01:11:23.520> once<01:11:23.760> we<01:11:23.920> had<01:11:24.080> done<01:11:24.320> the<01:11:24.560> experiment<01:11:24.960> correctly.

01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:34.480
So<01:11:26.640> that<01:11:27.040> shaped<01:11:27.520> my<01:11:27.760> views<01:11:28.159> of<01:11:28.400> the<01:11:28.560> whole<01:11:28.800> field<01:11:29.440> as<01:11:29.679> you<01:11:29.840> can<01:11:29.920> imagine<01:11:30.640> I<01:11:30.960> when<01:11:31.280> someone<01:11:31.920> claimed<01:11:32.719> this<01:11:32.880> person<01:11:33.040> had<01:11:34.080> thousands

01:11:34.480 --> 01:11:37.040
of<01:11:34.640> followers.<01:11:35.360> Oh<01:11:35.520> wow.<01:11:36.000> Big<01:11:36.320> big<01:11:36.719> deal.

01:11:37.040 --> 01:11:45.679
So<01:11:37.679> hundreds<01:11:38.080> of<01:11:38.159> tapes,<01:11:38.480> thousands<01:11:38.800> of<01:11:38.960> followers,<01:11:40.000> and<01:11:42.320> my<01:11:42.560> graduate<01:11:42.880> student<01:11:43.120> who<01:11:43.360> was<01:11:44.400> a<01:11:44.719> follower<01:11:45.360> could

01:11:45.679 --> 01:11:51.280
not<01:11:45.840> find<01:11:46.000> any<01:11:46.159> evidence<01:11:46.560> in<01:11:46.800> any<01:11:46.960> of<01:11:47.120> the<01:11:48.239> of<01:11:48.640> when<01:11:48.880> I<01:11:48.960> when<01:11:49.199> we<01:11:49.360> cleaned<01:11:49.520> up<01:11:49.679> the<01:11:49.840> experiments.

01:11:51.280 --> 01:11:54.320
But<01:11:51.520> now<01:11:51.760> again,<01:11:52.000> I'm<01:11:52.239> not<01:11:52.400> going<01:11:52.560> to<01:11:52.719> now<01:11:52.880> say<01:11:53.120> I<01:11:53.280> throw<01:11:53.520> the<01:11:53.600> whole<01:11:53.760> thing<01:11:53.840> out<01:11:54.000> either.

01:11:54.320 --> 01:11:56.560
So<01:11:54.400> I'm<01:11:54.480> not<01:11:54.640> gullible<01:11:54.960> and<01:11:55.120> I'm<01:11:55.280> not<01:11:55.360> throwing<01:11:55.600> the<01:11:55.760> whole<01:11:55.840> thing<01:11:56.000> out.

01:11:56.560 --> 01:11:59.600
As<01:11:56.800> a<01:11:56.960> scientist,<01:11:57.360> I<01:11:57.600> have<01:11:57.679> to<01:11:58.000> take<01:11:58.239> it<01:11:58.400> one<01:11:58.560> case<01:11:58.800> at<01:11:58.960> a<01:11:59.120> time.

01:11:59.600 --> 01:12:04.960
This<01:11:59.840> person<01:12:00.719> in<01:12:01.040> that<01:12:01.280> experiment<01:12:02.000> had<01:12:02.400> no<01:12:02.880> evidence<01:12:03.280> of<01:12:03.520> any<01:12:03.760> power<01:12:04.000> whatsoever.

01:12:04.960 --> 01:12:10.640
That<01:12:05.199> doesn't<01:12:05.360> mean<01:12:05.520> it's<01:12:05.760> not<01:12:05.920> possible.<01:12:06.320> It<01:12:06.560> just<01:12:06.800> means<01:12:06.960> that<01:12:07.440> he<01:12:07.760> didn't<01:12:07.920> do<01:12:08.080> it<01:12:08.480> on<01:12:08.719> that<01:12:08.960> day<01:12:09.199> at<01:12:09.440> all.

01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:15.280
And<01:12:11.120> so<01:12:11.360> for<01:12:11.520> me<01:12:11.760> now<01:12:12.000> it's<01:12:12.320> the<01:12:12.400> the<01:12:12.880> question<01:12:14.080> I'm<01:12:14.400> now<01:12:14.640> open.

01:12:15.280 --> 01:12:20.880
My<01:12:15.528> guess<01:12:15.775> is<01:12:16.023> that<01:12:16.270> there<01:12:16.518> is<01:12:16.766> just<01:12:17.013> tons<01:12:17.261> and<01:12:17.509> tons<01:12:17.756> of<01:12:18.004> nonsense<01:12:18.251> in<01:12:18.499> this<01:12:18.747> field<01:12:18.994> and<01:12:19.242> I'm<01:12:19.490> not<01:12:19.737> going<01:12:19.985> to<01:12:20.232> be<01:12:20.480> gullible.

01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:25.440
I'm<01:12:21.040> not<01:12:21.120> going<01:12:21.199> to<01:12:21.280> be<01:12:21.440> taken<01:12:21.679> in.<01:12:22.239> But<01:12:22.320> I'm<01:12:22.480> not<01:12:22.640> also<01:12:22.960> going<01:12:23.040> to<01:12:23.120> be<01:12:24.719> shunning<01:12:25.040> it<01:12:25.199> away.

01:12:25.440 --> 01:12:28.560
Shunning<01:12:25.679> it<01:12:25.840> away<01:12:25.920> and<01:12:26.080> putting<01:12:26.239> on<01:12:26.400> blindfold<01:12:26.800> and<01:12:26.960> saying<01:12:27.120> there's<01:12:27.360> nothing<01:12:27.520> here.

01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:31.600
Uh<01:12:29.040> my<01:12:29.199> own<01:12:29.440> math<01:12:29.760> says<01:12:30.000> there<01:12:30.239> is<01:12:30.480> something<01:12:30.719> here.

01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:36.239
And<01:12:31.840> there<01:12:32.159> are<01:12:33.840> reliable<01:12:34.480> I<01:12:34.719> think<01:12:35.199> sources.

01:12:36.239 --> 01:12:40.320
So<01:12:36.400> I'm<01:12:36.560> I'm<01:12:36.880> now<01:12:37.040> exploring<01:12:37.440> their<01:12:37.600> sources<01:12:38.000> and<01:12:38.239> trying<01:12:38.400> to<01:12:38.800> but<01:12:38.960> there<01:12:39.120> are<01:12:39.280> no<01:12:39.440> mathematical<01:12:39.920> theories.

01:12:40.320 --> 01:12:49.120
So<01:12:40.480> I'm<01:12:40.719> hoping<01:12:40.960> to<01:12:41.280> provide<01:12:41.840> a<01:12:42.080> first<01:12:42.400> mathematical<01:12:42.960> theory<01:12:43.280> that<01:12:43.440> can<01:12:43.600> start<01:12:43.840> to<01:12:44.080> explain<01:12:44.719> why<01:12:45.280> and<01:12:45.600> when<01:12:45.920> and<01:12:46.159> how<01:12:46.960> we<01:12:47.199> can<01:12:47.360> develop<01:12:47.679> these<01:12:48.000> kinds<01:12:48.320> of

01:12:49.120 --> 01:12:53.440
um<01:12:49.280> non<01:12:50.480> embodied<01:12:51.600> perceptions<01:12:52.159> and<01:12:52.400> cognitions.

01:12:53.440 --> 01:12:57.520
So<01:12:53.600> I<01:12:53.840> think<01:12:53.920> that<01:12:54.239> we<01:12:54.480> can<01:12:54.640> eventually<01:12:55.360> have<01:12:56.080> a<01:12:56.480> scientific<01:12:56.880> theory<01:12:57.120> of<01:12:57.280> it.

01:12:57.520 --> 01:13:04.480
We<01:12:57.760> can<01:12:57.840> then<01:12:58.640> right<01:12:58.880> now<01:12:59.040> there<01:12:59.199> are<01:12:59.360> technologies<01:12:59.920> there's<01:13:00.159> like<01:13:00.320> these<01:13:00.800> programs<01:13:01.120> that<01:13:01.280> try<01:13:01.440> to<01:13:01.600> teach<01:13:01.840> children<01:13:02.080> with<01:13:02.400> blindfolds<01:13:02.880> to<01:13:03.040> be<01:13:03.199> able<01:13:03.280> to<01:13:03.520> read<01:13:03.840> and<01:13:04.239> see

01:13:04.480 --> 01:13:10.640
and<01:13:04.719> and<01:13:04.880> so<01:13:05.120> forth<01:13:05.760> and<01:13:06.000> there<01:13:06.159> seems<01:13:06.480> to<01:13:06.640> be<01:13:06.960> some<01:13:07.440> empirical<01:13:08.000> evidence<01:13:08.239> that<01:13:08.480> it's<01:13:08.640> working<01:13:08.960> with<01:13:09.120> with<01:13:09.440> these<01:13:09.760> children.

01:13:10.640 --> 01:13:19.040
U<01:13:11.040> there's<01:13:11.360> no<01:13:11.440> theories<01:13:11.840> at<01:13:12.000> all<01:13:12.239> for<01:13:12.480> why<01:13:12.719> it<01:13:12.880> works<01:13:13.199> and<01:13:13.760> each<01:13:14.080> program<01:13:14.400> is<01:13:14.640> slightly<01:13:15.040> different<01:13:15.679> and<01:13:16.000> they<01:13:16.239> often<01:13:16.560> say<01:13:16.800> contradictory<01:13:17.440> things<01:13:18.000> about<01:13:18.320> it.

01:13:19.040 --> 01:13:21.520
So<01:13:19.679> we're<01:13:20.000> in<01:13:20.239> the<01:13:20.400> baby<01:13:20.719> beginning<01:13:21.040> stages.

01:13:21.520 --> 01:13:24.080
We<01:13:21.679> have<01:13:22.000> data<01:13:22.320> that<01:13:22.560> says<01:13:22.800> this<01:13:23.040> can<01:13:23.280> happen.

01:13:24.080 --> 01:13:27.120
data<01:13:24.480> says<01:13:24.719> that<01:13:24.960> there's<01:13:25.199> a<01:13:25.280> lot<01:13:25.440> of<01:13:25.520> charlatans<01:13:26.080> in<01:13:26.239> this<01:13:26.400> field.

01:13:27.120 --> 01:13:35.520
And<01:13:27.360> so<01:13:27.520> we're<01:13:27.760> gonna<01:13:28.000> have<01:13:28.080> to<01:13:29.600> find<01:13:29.840> the<01:13:30.000> charlatans,<01:13:30.719> ignore<01:13:30.960> them,<01:13:31.440> find<01:13:31.760> the<01:13:31.920> real<01:13:32.159> data,<01:13:33.360> take<01:13:33.600> all<01:13:33.840> the<01:13:34.080> current<01:13:34.400> theories,<01:13:34.880> which<01:13:35.120> are

01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:43.440
not<01:13:35.760> yet<01:13:36.080> scientific.<01:13:36.719> They're<01:13:36.960> just<01:13:38.560> guesses,<01:13:39.040> sometimes<01:13:39.360> I<01:13:39.520> think<01:13:39.679> good<01:13:39.840> guesses,<01:13:40.159> but<01:13:40.400> guesses,<01:13:41.040> and<01:13:41.199> we're<01:13:41.360> going<01:13:41.440> to<01:13:41.600> have<01:13:41.679> to<01:13:41.840> develop<01:13:42.400> a<01:13:42.719> scientific<01:13:43.120> theory.

01:13:43.440 --> 01:13:45.679
But<01:13:43.520> I<01:13:43.600> think<01:13:43.679> that<01:13:43.840> we<01:13:44.080> will<01:13:44.239> eventually<01:13:44.640> go<01:13:44.880> this<01:13:45.120> way.

01:13:45.679 --> 01:13:51.199
If<01:13:45.920> consciousness<01:13:46.560> is<01:13:47.040> fundamental<01:13:47.520> and<01:13:47.840> spacetime<01:13:48.320> is<01:13:48.560> not,

01:13:51.199 --> 01:13:53.920
then<01:13:51.440> I<01:13:51.600> don't<01:13:51.679> think<01:13:51.840> embodiment<01:13:53.040> is<01:13:53.280> the<01:13:53.520> norm.

01:13:53.920 --> 01:14:02.159
I<01:13:54.080> think<01:13:54.239> embodiment<01:13:54.880> is<01:13:55.040> the<01:13:55.280> exception.<01:13:56.480> And<01:13:57.679> we<01:13:58.480> as<01:13:58.719> part<01:13:58.880> of<01:13:59.040> the<01:13:59.199> next<01:13:59.440> step<01:13:59.600> in<01:13:59.920> our<01:14:00.159> scientific<01:14:00.640> evolution,<01:14:01.440> we<01:14:01.679> will<01:14:01.920> begin

01:14:02.159 --> 01:14:11.360
to<01:14:02.400> understand<01:14:03.040> what<01:14:03.360> exactly<01:14:03.679> are<01:14:03.920> the<01:14:04.080> tools<01:14:04.640> that<01:14:04.880> will<01:14:05.120> allow<01:14:05.280> us<01:14:05.440> to<01:14:05.679> systematically<01:14:07.440> extend<01:14:07.840> our<01:14:08.320> sensory<01:14:08.960> powers<01:14:09.440> beyond<01:14:10.640> trapping

01:14:11.360 --> 01:14:20.000
in<01:14:11.840> the<01:14:12.080> body.<01:14:13.679> This<01:14:13.920> is<01:14:14.800> I<01:14:15.120> before<01:14:15.520> kind<01:14:15.679> of<01:14:15.760> moving<01:14:16.080> on,<01:14:16.640> this<01:14:16.880> is<01:14:17.040> the<01:14:17.199> first<01:14:17.440> time<01:14:17.520> I've<01:14:17.760> heard<01:14:18.080> someone<01:14:18.719> from<01:14:18.960> a<01:14:19.120> scientific<01:14:19.600> background

01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:26.640
talk<01:14:20.239> about<01:14:20.400> these<01:14:20.719> things.<01:14:21.040> I<01:14:21.280> have<01:14:21.520> seen<01:14:21.840> definitely<01:14:22.239> tapes<01:14:22.640> myself<01:14:23.120> recently<01:14:23.600> of<01:14:24.320> children<01:14:25.120> displaying<01:14:25.600> some<01:14:25.840> of<01:14:25.920> these<01:14:26.159> powers.

01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:33.840
Um<01:14:27.280> yes,<01:14:27.600> I<01:14:27.760> know<01:14:27.920> I've<01:14:28.159> also<01:14:28.320> heard<01:14:28.560> that<01:14:28.800> it's<01:14:29.840> easy<01:14:30.159> whatever<01:14:30.480> it's<01:14:30.719> happening<01:14:31.120> it's<01:14:31.280> easier<01:14:31.600> for<01:14:31.920> children<01:14:32.239> because<01:14:32.480> they're<01:14:32.800> less<01:14:33.120> conditioned.

01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:40.159
They're<01:14:34.239> younger<01:14:34.560> so<01:14:34.719> they<01:14:34.960> have<01:14:35.440> in<01:14:35.600> a<01:14:35.760> sense<01:14:36.000> less<01:14:36.320> conditioning<01:14:36.800> in<01:14:36.960> the<01:14:37.120> mind<01:14:37.920> about<01:14:38.480> um<01:14:38.640> the<01:14:38.880> physical<01:14:39.280> reality.

01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:47.440
But<01:14:40.400> it's<01:14:40.560> it's<01:14:41.040> very<01:14:41.440> interesting<01:14:41.840> how<01:14:42.080> you're<01:14:42.400> going<01:14:42.480> to<01:14:42.640> be<01:14:42.719> able<01:14:42.880> to<01:14:42.960> put<01:14:43.120> this<01:14:43.280> in<01:14:43.440> a<01:14:43.600> scientific<01:14:43.920> or<01:14:44.159> a<01:14:44.320> mathematical<01:14:44.960> framework<01:14:45.600> when<01:14:46.159> in<01:14:46.400> regards<01:14:46.640> to<01:14:46.800> telepathy

01:14:47.440 --> 01:14:50.960
or<01:14:47.600> special<01:14:47.920> powers.<01:14:48.560> Yeah.<01:14:48.800> Yes.<01:14:49.040> I<01:14:49.280> think<01:14:50.000> we'll<01:14:50.400> be<01:14:50.480> able<01:14:50.560> to<01:14:50.719> do<01:14:50.800> that.

01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:58.320
I<01:14:51.040> mean<01:14:51.280> partly<01:14:52.159> if<01:14:52.400> you're<01:14:52.560> a<01:14:52.719> physicist<01:14:53.280> and<01:14:53.520> you<01:14:53.679> think<01:14:53.760> that<01:14:53.920> the<01:14:54.159> brain<01:14:54.320> creates<01:14:54.719> everything<01:14:55.679> and<01:14:55.920> we<01:14:56.480> can't<01:14:56.719> even<01:14:56.880> figure<01:14:57.040> out<01:14:57.120> how<01:14:57.199> the<01:14:57.360> brain<01:14:57.520> creates<01:14:58.000> taste

01:14:58.320 --> 01:15:01.760
of<01:14:58.400> mint.<01:14:58.640> Good<01:14:58.719> luck.<01:14:58.880> I<01:14:59.040> mean<01:14:59.520> you're<01:14:59.840> just<01:15:00.000> not<01:15:00.080> going<01:15:00.159> to<01:15:00.239> be<01:15:00.320> able<01:15:00.400> to<01:15:00.480> play<01:15:00.560> in<01:15:00.719> this<01:15:00.880> field<01:15:01.040> at<01:15:01.199> all.

01:15:01.760 --> 01:15:08.960
But<01:15:02.000> if<01:15:02.159> you<01:15:02.320> think<01:15:02.400> about<01:15:02.640> spacetime<01:15:03.199> as<01:15:03.520> just<01:15:03.679> a<01:15:03.840> headset<01:15:04.960> and<01:15:05.199> we<01:15:05.440> have<01:15:05.520> a<01:15:05.679> model<01:15:05.920> of<01:15:06.080> consciousness<01:15:07.199> like<01:15:07.360> conscious<01:15:07.679> observers<01:15:08.000> if<01:15:08.159> you<01:15:08.239> don't<01:15:08.320> like<01:15:08.480> conscious

01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:17.920
observers<01:15:09.520> outside<01:15:09.760> of<01:15:09.920> spacetime<01:15:10.719> and<01:15:10.880> you<01:15:11.040> can<01:15:11.199> show<01:15:11.360> how<01:15:11.600> this<01:15:11.760> headset<01:15:12.239> is<01:15:12.400> built<01:15:13.360> and<01:15:13.520> you<01:15:13.679> can<01:15:13.840> then<01:15:14.000> show<01:15:14.480> why<01:15:15.520> you<01:15:15.760> have<01:15:15.840> the<01:15:16.080> experience<01:15:16.480> of<01:15:16.640> embodiment<01:15:17.600> because

01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:25.600
of<01:15:18.080> the<01:15:18.400> design<01:15:18.640> of<01:15:18.800> this<01:15:19.040> headset.<01:15:20.000> Then<01:15:20.159> you<01:15:20.320> will<01:15:20.480> have<01:15:20.640> the<01:15:20.800> tools<01:15:21.199> to<01:15:21.440> say<01:15:21.760> well<01:15:22.080> how<01:15:22.239> can<01:15:22.320> I<01:15:22.480> just<01:15:22.640> loosen<01:15:22.960> up<01:15:23.120> this<01:15:23.280> headset<01:15:23.600> a<01:15:23.679> little<01:15:23.760> bit<01:15:23.920> so<01:15:24.080> you're<01:15:24.239> not<01:15:24.400> stuck

01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:30.080
in<01:15:25.760> the<01:15:26.000> body<01:15:27.040> there<01:15:27.199> there's<01:15:27.440> there's<01:15:28.159> in<01:15:28.400> principle<01:15:28.719> no<01:15:28.960> reason<01:15:29.120> why<01:15:29.280> you<01:15:29.440> can't<01:15:29.600> do<01:15:29.760> that.

01:15:30.080 --> 01:15:39.600
So<01:15:30.239> we<01:15:30.560> we<01:15:30.719> we<01:15:30.960> will<01:15:31.120> have<01:15:31.280> the<01:15:31.440> tools<01:15:32.000> to<01:15:32.239> understand<01:15:33.120> h<01:15:33.360> why<01:15:33.600> our<01:15:33.840> headset<01:15:34.560> is<01:15:35.040> have<01:15:35.280> you<01:15:35.520> has<01:15:35.840> you<01:15:37.199> firmly<01:15:37.679> in<01:15:37.840> your<01:15:38.000> body<01:15:38.960> and

01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:48.080
how<01:15:39.920> do<01:15:40.080> you<01:15:40.480> all<01:15:40.719> what<01:15:40.960> you<01:15:41.120> need<01:15:41.199> to<01:15:41.360> do<01:15:41.440> to<01:15:41.679> tweak<01:15:41.920> that<01:15:42.159> headset<01:15:42.560> so<01:15:42.719> that<01:15:42.960> you<01:15:43.120> can<01:15:43.760> have<01:15:44.159> access<01:15:44.640> to<01:15:46.000> data<01:15:47.280> that<01:15:47.520> your<01:15:47.679> headset

01:15:48.080 --> 01:15:56.400
would<01:15:48.239> otherwise<01:15:48.800> filter<01:15:49.199> away<01:15:49.440> and<01:15:49.600> that's<01:15:49.760> the<01:15:49.920> key<01:15:50.080> point<01:15:50.640> the<01:15:50.880> headset<01:15:51.360> is<01:15:51.920> filtering<01:15:52.560> the<01:15:52.880> data<01:15:53.600> it's<01:15:54.000> restricting<01:15:54.560> the<01:15:54.800> data<01:15:55.040> that<01:15:55.280> comes<01:15:55.440> into<01:15:55.679> you<01:15:56.000> when<01:15:56.239> we

01:15:56.400 --> 01:16:05.520
understand<01:15:56.719> how<01:15:56.880> our<01:15:57.120> 3D<01:15:57.760> of<01:15:58.000> space<01:15:58.239> 1D<01:15:58.640> of<01:15:58.800> time<01:15:59.040> headset<01:15:59.679> is<01:16:00.080> restricting<01:16:00.560> the<01:16:00.719> data<01:16:00.960> that<01:16:01.199> comes<01:16:01.360> to<01:16:01.600> us<01:16:02.080> from<01:16:02.560> this<01:16:02.880> bigger<01:16:03.120> space<01:16:03.360> of<01:16:03.520> observers.

01:16:05.520 --> 01:16:13.760
We<01:16:05.760> can<01:16:05.920> then<01:16:06.480> turn<01:16:06.640> off<01:16:06.880> those<01:16:07.040> filters<01:16:07.600> as<01:16:07.840> we<01:16:08.080> as<01:16:08.400> we<01:16:08.560> wish<01:16:09.440> and<01:16:09.600> and<01:16:10.480> be<01:16:10.719> opened<01:16:10.960> up<01:16:11.199> to<01:16:11.679> and<01:16:12.080> what's<01:16:12.320> interesting<01:16:12.560> is<01:16:12.719> that<01:16:13.040> not<01:16:13.280> only<01:16:13.440> are<01:16:13.600> is

01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:20.800
it<01:16:13.920> children<01:16:14.239> and<01:16:14.400> and<01:16:14.480> and<01:16:15.360> non-speaking<01:16:16.000> autistics<01:16:16.400> and<01:16:16.640> so<01:16:16.800> forth,<01:16:17.199> but<01:16:17.520> people<01:16:17.679> who<01:16:18.000> get<01:16:18.239> certain<01:16:18.480> kinds<01:16:18.640> of<01:16:18.800> brain<01:16:18.960> damage<01:16:19.360> all<01:16:19.520> of<01:16:19.521> a<01:16:19.679> sudden<01:16:20.080> get<01:16:20.239> these<01:16:20.560> special

01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:25.679
abilities.<01:16:21.360> And<01:16:21.520> that<01:16:21.760> also<01:16:22.080> suggests<01:16:22.480> that<01:16:22.640> somehow<01:16:23.120> a<01:16:23.440> filter<01:16:23.760> comes<01:16:24.000> off.

01:16:25.679 --> 01:16:28.000
Oh,<01:16:26.000> that<01:16:26.159> makes<01:16:26.400> sense,<01:16:26.719> right?<01:16:26.880> A<01:16:27.120> filter<01:16:27.440> comes<01:16:27.600> off.

01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:35.679
that's<01:16:28.239> that's<01:16:28.320> that's<01:16:29.360> forcing<01:16:29.760> us<01:16:30.000> into<01:16:30.400> the<01:16:30.640> training<01:16:31.040> wheels<01:16:32.080> headset<01:16:32.880> that<01:16:33.199> keeps<01:16:33.440> us<01:16:34.080> in<01:16:34.320> a<01:16:34.560> body.

01:16:35.679 --> 01:16:44.000
Um<01:16:36.400> so<01:16:36.640> it's<01:16:37.600> but<01:16:37.840> what's<01:16:38.080> interesting<01:16:38.400> is<01:16:38.640> that<01:16:39.040> many<01:16:39.280> of<01:16:39.360> the<01:16:39.600> non-speaking<01:16:40.159> autistics<01:16:40.800> for<01:16:40.880> example<01:16:42.159> um<01:16:42.800> they<01:16:43.360> see<01:16:43.600> all<01:16:43.760> this

01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:50.480
stuff<01:16:44.159> outside<01:16:44.480> of<01:16:44.560> the<01:16:44.719> space<01:16:44.960> time<01:16:45.120> that<01:16:45.280> we<01:16:45.440> can't<01:16:45.600> there's<01:16:45.920> truly<01:16:46.400> stunning<01:16:46.719> power<01:16:47.120> but<01:16:47.360> they<01:16:47.520> can't<01:16:48.080> take<01:16:48.320> care<01:16:48.480> of<01:16:48.640> themselves<01:16:49.120> without<01:16:49.440> a<01:16:49.600> caretaker<01:16:50.159> they<01:16:50.320> would

01:16:50.480 --> 01:17:00.719
die.<01:16:51.360> So<01:16:52.159> there's<01:16:53.840> I<01:16:54.159> think<01:16:54.239> that<01:16:54.480> there<01:16:54.640> should<01:16:54.800> be<01:16:54.880> a<01:16:55.120> way<01:16:55.920> to<01:16:56.480> get<01:16:56.719> the<01:16:56.960> abilities<01:16:57.440> of<01:16:57.600> the<01:16:57.760> autistic<01:16:59.280> non-speakers

01:17:00.719 --> 01:17:09.120
without<01:17:01.120> the<01:17:01.360> disabilities.<01:17:02.880> Once<01:17:03.120> we<01:17:03.280> understand<01:17:03.600> how<01:17:03.840> the<01:17:03.920> the<01:17:04.239> headset<01:17:04.640> works,<01:17:04.960> we<01:17:05.120> can<01:17:05.280> keep<01:17:06.159> those<01:17:06.560> attachments<01:17:07.040> to<01:17:07.199> the<01:17:07.360> body<01:17:07.600> we<01:17:07.840> need<01:17:08.320> to<01:17:08.640> stay<01:17:08.800> alive

01:17:09.120 --> 01:17:16.640
in<01:17:09.360> this<01:17:09.600> particular<01:17:10.000> headset<01:17:11.199> and<01:17:11.520> attach<01:17:11.760> to<01:17:11.920> it<01:17:12.239> where<01:17:13.040> and<01:17:13.360> still<01:17:13.600> be<01:17:13.840> able<01:17:14.000> to<01:17:14.320> to<01:17:15.199> explore<01:17:16.000> well<01:17:16.320> beyond.

01:17:16.640 --> 01:17:24.080
I<01:17:16.800> think<01:17:16.880> that<01:17:17.040> that<01:17:17.199> will<01:17:17.360> be<01:17:17.520> possible.<01:17:18.159> Do<01:17:18.400> you<01:17:18.480> think<01:17:18.640> that<01:17:18.800> there's<01:17:18.960> a<01:17:19.280> reason<01:17:19.600> why<01:17:19.920> by<01:17:20.239> default<01:17:21.120> most<01:17:21.360> of<01:17:21.520> us<01:17:22.159> are<01:17:22.400> like<01:17:22.640> this<01:17:22.880> where<01:17:23.040> we<01:17:23.280> where<01:17:23.440> we<01:17:23.760> don't<01:17:23.920> have

01:17:24.080 --> 01:17:27.600
those<01:17:24.320> abilities?

01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:30.080
I<01:17:27.760> I<01:17:28.159> don't<01:17:28.400> so<01:17:28.480> I<01:17:28.640> can<01:17:28.719> only<01:17:28.960> I<01:17:29.120> can<01:17:29.360> it's<01:17:29.520> a<01:17:29.679> great<01:17:29.840> question.

01:17:30.080 --> 01:17:38.000
So,<01:17:30.320> I'm<01:17:30.719> I'm<01:17:31.199> I<01:17:31.440> love<01:17:31.600> the<01:17:31.840> question<01:17:32.239> and<01:17:32.800> I<01:17:33.040> just<01:17:33.199> have<01:17:33.280> to<01:17:33.440> answer<01:17:34.000> honestly<01:17:34.400> I<01:17:34.640> don't<01:17:34.719> know<01:17:34.800> the<01:17:34.960> answer<01:17:35.199> but<01:17:35.360> I<01:17:35.600> but<01:17:35.840> what<01:17:36.000> I<01:17:36.239> can<01:17:36.400> say<01:17:37.040> is<01:17:37.360> is<01:17:37.679> this.

01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.679
It's<01:17:38.640> it's<01:17:39.040> interesting<01:17:39.360> because<01:17:39.520> I<01:17:39.679> thought<01:17:39.840> about<01:17:40.000> that<01:17:40.239> same<01:17:40.480> question.

01:17:41.679 --> 01:17:48.400
I<01:17:41.920> mean<01:17:42.320> one<01:17:42.560> attitude<01:17:42.880> I<01:17:43.040> had<01:17:43.199> initially<01:17:43.600> was<01:17:43.920> okay<01:17:44.239> so<01:17:44.640> we're<01:17:45.040> the<01:17:45.360> the<01:17:45.679> stupid<01:17:46.080> kindergarteners<01:17:46.719> that<01:17:46.880> are<01:17:47.040> stuck<01:17:47.199> in<01:17:47.360> the<01:17:47.520> smallest<01:17:47.840> sandbox.

01:17:48.400 --> 01:17:56.320
This<01:17:48.560> is<01:17:48.719> like<01:17:49.120> we<01:17:49.360> got<01:17:49.520> the<01:17:49.679> training<01:17:50.000> wheel<01:17:50.320> headset<01:17:51.199> and<01:17:51.360> and<01:17:52.159> you<01:17:52.320> know<01:17:52.480> when<01:17:52.719> you<01:17:52.800> look<01:17:52.960> at<01:17:53.040> the<01:17:53.280> possible<01:17:53.600> headsets<01:17:54.000> that<01:17:54.159> could<01:17:54.320> be<01:17:54.640> built<01:17:55.440> ours<01:17:55.760> is<01:17:55.920> among<01:17:56.159> the

01:17:56.320 --> 01:17:59.360
simplest<01:17:56.640> that<01:17:56.800> I<01:17:57.040> can<01:17:57.120> think<01:17:57.280> of,<01:17:57.760> right?<01:17:58.000> We<01:17:58.159> only<01:17:58.320> have<01:17:58.400> three<01:17:58.640> dimensions<01:17:58.960> of<01:17:59.120> space.

01:17:59.360 --> 01:18:01.600
Why<01:17:59.520> not<01:17:59.920> 20<01:18:00.159> trillion<01:18:00.480> dimensions<01:18:00.880> of<01:18:01.040> space?

01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:10.320
Sure.<01:18:02.320> I<01:18:02.560> have<01:18:02.640> a<01:18:02.800> friend<01:18:04.000> who<01:18:05.120> is<01:18:05.360> a<01:18:05.520> mathematician<01:18:06.400> who's<01:18:06.719> taken<01:18:06.960> DMT,<01:18:07.760> gone<01:18:08.080> into<01:18:08.239> a<01:18:08.400> four-dimensional<01:18:09.040> space<01:18:10.080> in

01:18:10.320 --> 01:18:15.679
in<01:18:10.560> DMT<01:18:11.199> and<01:18:11.440> seen<01:18:11.600> a<01:18:11.760> tesseract.<01:18:12.719> So<01:18:12.880> he<01:18:13.040> can<01:18:13.120> actually<01:18:13.280> see<01:18:13.360> a<01:18:13.520> fourdimensional<01:18:14.080> cube<01:18:14.320> and<01:18:14.400> he<01:18:14.480> can<01:18:14.640> see<01:18:14.719> and<01:18:14.880> rotate.

01:18:15.679 --> 01:18:18.719
And<01:18:16.000> he's<01:18:16.239> a<01:18:16.320> mathematician.<01:18:16.880> He<01:18:17.040> knows<01:18:17.120> what<01:18:17.280> he's<01:18:17.520> what<01:18:17.760> he's<01:18:17.920> seeing.

01:18:18.719 --> 01:18:21.280
And<01:18:19.040> I<01:18:19.280> can't<01:18:19.520> do<01:18:19.600> that.<01:18:19.840> And<01:18:20.000> he<01:18:20.159> couldn't<01:18:20.320> do<01:18:20.400> it<01:18:20.480> in<01:18:20.640> three<01:18:20.800> dimensions.

01:18:21.280 --> 01:18:26.880
And<01:18:21.440> he<01:18:21.600> couldn't<01:18:21.840> he<01:18:22.000> could<01:18:22.080> only<01:18:22.239> do<01:18:22.320> it<01:18:22.480> in<01:18:22.560> four<01:18:22.800> dimensions<01:18:23.199> with<01:18:23.440> DMT<01:18:23.920> for<01:18:24.080> about<01:18:25.120> 3/4<01:18:25.600> of<01:18:25.679> a<01:18:25.920> second.

01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:35.040
So<01:18:27.139> So<01:18:27.397> we<01:18:27.656> have<01:18:27.915> this.<01:18:28.173> So<01:18:28.432> what<01:18:28.691> it<01:18:28.949> sounds<01:18:29.208> like<01:18:29.467> you<01:18:29.725> from<01:18:29.984> this<01:18:30.243> point<01:18:30.501> of<01:18:30.760> view<01:18:31.019> is<01:18:31.277> okay<01:18:31.536> we<01:18:31.795> we<01:18:32.053> we<01:18:32.312> got<01:18:32.571> cheated<01:18:32.829> we<01:18:33.088> got<01:18:33.347> the<01:18:33.605> you<01:18:33.864> know<01:18:34.123> the<01:18:34.381> stupid<01:18:34.640> training

01:18:35.040 --> 01:18:37.840
wheel<01:18:35.840> headset<01:18:36.320> and<01:18:36.480> and<01:18:36.719> that's<01:18:36.880> what<01:18:37.040> we're<01:18:37.199> stuck<01:18:37.360> with.

01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:44.560
But<01:18:38.000> there's<01:18:38.239> another<01:18:38.480> way<01:18:38.640> of<01:18:38.800> looking<01:18:38.960> at<01:18:39.120> it<01:18:39.280> as<01:18:39.440> well<01:18:40.159> and<01:18:40.400> and<01:18:40.640> that<01:18:40.800> is

01:18:44.560 --> 01:18:49.760
right<01:18:44.800> now<01:18:44.960> if<01:18:45.120> I<01:18:45.280> want<01:18:45.440> that<01:18:45.679> cup<01:18:46.080> to<01:18:46.320> be<01:18:46.560> over<01:18:46.719> there<01:18:48.080> I<01:18:48.320> have<01:18:48.400> to<01:18:48.560> do<01:18:48.719> a<01:18:49.040> sequence<01:18:49.280> of<01:18:49.440> moves.

01:18:49.760 --> 01:18:52.159
I<01:18:49.840> have<01:18:49.920> to<01:18:50.000> move<01:18:50.159> my<01:18:50.400> hand<01:18:50.640> and<01:18:50.800> I've<01:18:51.040> got<01:18:51.120> to<01:18:51.280> do<01:18:51.440> all<01:18:51.600> this<01:18:51.840> stuff.

01:18:52.159 --> 01:18:55.040
There's<01:18:52.320> a<01:18:52.800> there's<01:18:53.120> a<01:18:53.360> lot<01:18:53.520> of<01:18:53.760> stuff<01:18:53.920> that<01:18:54.159> I've<01:18:54.400> got<01:18:54.480> to<01:18:54.640> do.

01:18:55.040 --> 01:19:00.080
Mhm.<01:18:55.679> Whereas<01:18:56.000> if<01:18:56.480> um<01:18:57.199> I<01:18:57.440> had<01:18:57.679> a<01:18:57.840> disembodied<01:18:58.480> intelligence,<01:18:58.960> I<01:18:59.120> could<01:18:59.199> just<01:18:59.280> say,<01:18:59.360> "I<01:18:59.600> want<01:18:59.679> that<01:18:59.760> cup<01:18:59.920> there."

01:19:00.080 --> 01:19:03.280
And<01:19:00.159> it<01:19:00.320> would<01:19:00.400> just<01:19:00.560> be<01:19:00.719> there.<01:19:01.520> Yeah.<01:19:02.239> And<01:19:02.400> that<01:19:02.640> would<01:19:02.719> be<01:19:02.880> much<01:19:03.040> easier.

01:19:03.280 --> 01:19:05.280
I<01:19:03.464> would<01:19:03.648> just<01:19:03.832> I<01:19:04.016> I<01:19:04.200> I<01:19:04.384> see<01:19:04.568> the<01:19:04.752> cup<01:19:04.936> there<01:19:05.120> now.

01:19:05.280 --> 01:19:07.760
I<01:19:05.360> see<01:19:05.520> the<01:19:05.679> cup<01:19:05.920> there.<01:19:06.560> No<01:19:06.800> problem.

01:19:07.760 --> 01:19:13.040
So<01:19:08.400> in<01:19:08.719> some<01:19:08.960> sense,<01:19:10.000> I'm<01:19:10.239> in<01:19:10.400> a<01:19:10.560> boot<01:19:10.800> camp.

01:19:13.040 --> 01:19:17.520
Everything<01:19:13.679> to<01:19:14.159> I<01:19:14.480> have<01:19:14.560> to<01:19:14.719> do<01:19:14.960> everything<01:19:15.760> explicitly<01:19:16.480> to<01:19:16.800> get<01:19:16.880> it<01:19:17.040> done.

01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:21.120
So<01:19:17.679> I'm<01:19:17.840> I'm<01:19:18.239> being<01:19:18.400> put<01:19:18.640> through<01:19:18.880> the<01:19:19.120> paces<01:19:19.520> in<01:19:19.679> a<01:19:19.840> hard<01:19:20.080> hard<01:19:20.480> way.

01:19:21.120 --> 01:19:28.480
So<01:19:21.440> we<01:19:21.600> have<01:19:21.760> the<01:19:22.159> So<01:19:23.040> it's<01:19:23.120> another<01:19:23.440> instead<01:19:23.679> of<01:19:23.760> saying<01:19:23.840> it's<01:19:24.080> the<01:19:24.159> training<01:19:24.480> wheel<01:19:24.719> headset,<01:19:25.360> it's<01:19:25.600> the<01:19:25.760> boot<01:19:26.080> camp<01:19:26.320> headset<01:19:27.120> where<01:19:27.440> we're<01:19:27.679> having<01:19:27.920> we're<01:19:28.239> really

01:19:28.480 --> 01:19:32.560
having<01:19:29.040> with<01:19:29.360> all<01:19:29.600> the<01:19:29.760> odds<01:19:30.000> against<01:19:30.320> us,<01:19:30.560> we<01:19:30.719> still<01:19:30.880> have<01:19:31.040> to<01:19:31.199> get<01:19:31.440> that<01:19:31.679> cup<01:19:31.920> from<01:19:32.080> there<01:19:32.239> to<01:19:32.400> there.

01:19:32.560 --> 01:19:40.719
I<01:19:32.719> can't<01:19:32.880> just<01:19:33.120> have<01:19:33.280> it<01:19:33.440> be<01:19:33.679> there.<01:19:34.000> I<01:19:34.239> have<01:19:34.400> to<01:19:34.560> figure<01:19:34.800> out<01:19:35.280> I<01:19:35.440> mean<01:19:35.679> and<01:19:35.760> and<01:19:36.000> it's<01:19:36.159> really<01:19:36.400> it<01:19:36.560> takes<01:19:36.719> a<01:19:36.960> kid,<01:19:37.760> an<01:19:38.080> infant<01:19:38.719> years<01:19:39.920> to<01:19:40.159> do<01:19:40.320> that.

01:19:40.719 --> 01:19:48.560
It<01:19:40.960> takes<01:19:41.120> us<01:19:41.360> a<01:19:41.600> long<01:19:41.920> time<01:19:42.640> to<01:19:42.960> figure<01:19:43.199> this<01:19:43.520> thing<01:19:43.679> out<01:19:44.719> and<01:19:44.880> and<01:19:45.199> then<01:19:45.360> as<01:19:45.520> soon<01:19:45.679> as<01:19:45.760> you<01:19:46.000> do<01:19:46.159> something<01:19:46.320> new<01:19:46.640> like<01:19:47.120> put<01:19:47.280> on<01:19:47.440> a<01:19:47.600> pair<01:19:47.679> of<01:19:47.760> ice<01:19:48.000> skates<01:19:48.239> for<01:19:48.400> the<01:19:48.480> first

01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:56.560
time<01:19:48.819> and<01:19:49.079> get<01:19:49.338> on<01:19:49.597> the<01:19:49.857> ice<01:19:50.116> and<01:19:50.375> you<01:19:50.634> find<01:19:50.894> you're<01:19:51.153> just<01:19:51.412> falling<01:19:51.672> on<01:19:51.931> your<01:19:52.190> face<01:19:52.450> and<01:19:52.709> and<01:19:52.968> and<01:19:53.228> and<01:19:53.487> everything<01:19:53.746> you<01:19:54.006> do<01:19:54.265> is<01:19:54.524> wrong<01:19:54.783> and<01:19:55.043> it<01:19:55.302> takes<01:19:55.561> you<01:19:55.821> months<01:19:56.080> before

01:19:56.560 --> 01:19:58.880
You're<01:19:57.199> comfortable<01:19:57.679> on<01:19:57.920> the<01:19:58.080> ice.

01:19:58.880 --> 01:20:02.159
So<01:19:59.120> that's<01:19:59.360> another<01:19:59.600> way<01:19:59.760> of<01:19:59.920> thinking<01:20:00.159> about<01:20:00.560> what<01:20:00.880> what<01:20:01.199> our<01:20:01.440> headset<01:20:01.840> is.

01:20:02.159 --> 01:20:06.239
We<01:20:02.480> have<01:20:02.640> one<01:20:02.880> of<01:20:02.960> the<01:20:03.120> simplest<01:20:03.600> and<01:20:03.840> hardest<01:20:05.440> headsets.

01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:14.719
But<01:20:06.480> on<01:20:06.640> the<01:20:06.719> other<01:20:06.880> hand,<01:20:07.040> it<01:20:07.280> requires<01:20:07.679> our<01:20:07.920> consciousness<01:20:08.640> in<01:20:08.880> some<01:20:09.120> sense<01:20:09.679> to<01:20:10.000> be<01:20:10.400> much<01:20:10.719> more<01:20:11.920> um<01:20:12.400> creative,<01:20:13.600> do<01:20:14.000> harder<01:20:14.400> problem

01:20:14.719 --> 01:20:19.840
solving.<01:20:15.120> So<01:20:15.600> so<01:20:17.440> again,<01:20:17.679> I<01:20:17.840> don't<01:20:17.920> know<01:20:18.080> what<01:20:18.400> what's<01:20:18.719> the<01:20:18.880> best<01:20:19.040> way<01:20:19.120> to<01:20:19.280> think<01:20:19.440> about<01:20:19.600> it.

01:20:19.840 --> 01:20:21.600
Those<01:20:20.080> are<01:20:20.320> this<01:20:20.560> is<01:20:20.719> all<01:20:20.880> brand<01:20:21.120> new<01:20:21.199> to<01:20:21.360> me.

01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:24.880
So<01:20:21.840> this<01:20:22.000> is<01:20:22.239> these<01:20:22.480> are<01:20:22.560> ideas<01:20:22.800> I'm<01:20:23.040> playing<01:20:23.199> with<01:20:23.440> just<01:20:23.600> in<01:20:23.760> the<01:20:23.920> last<01:20:24.080> few<01:20:24.239> weeks.

01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:28.400
Is<01:20:25.040> it<01:20:25.199> a<01:20:25.360> training<01:20:25.679> wheel<01:20:26.000> headset?<01:20:26.400> Is<01:20:26.560> it<01:20:26.719> a<01:20:26.960> boot<01:20:27.199> camp<01:20:27.440> headset?

01:20:28.400 --> 01:20:36.000
Um,<01:20:29.280> there<01:20:29.520> are<01:20:29.679> stories<01:20:30.000> about<01:20:30.239> people<01:20:30.480> who<01:20:31.040> who<01:20:32.000> become<01:20:32.560> like<01:20:32.880> have<01:20:33.120> near-death<01:20:33.600> experiences<01:20:34.000> and<01:20:34.239> they're<01:20:34.480> freed<01:20:34.640> from<01:20:34.800> their<01:20:34.960> bodies<01:20:35.120> for<01:20:35.280> a<01:20:35.360> while<01:20:35.440> and<01:20:35.600> they<01:20:35.840> go,

01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:39.199
"You<01:20:36.189> know<01:20:36.377> what?<01:20:36.566> I<01:20:36.754> didn't<01:20:36.943> want<01:20:37.131> to<01:20:37.320> come<01:20:37.509> back.<01:20:37.697> This<01:20:37.886> is<01:20:38.074> no<01:20:38.263> fun<01:20:38.451> in<01:20:38.640> here.

01:20:39.199 --> 01:20:43.199
This<01:20:39.440> body<01:20:39.600> is<01:20:39.920> really<01:20:40.239> really<01:20:40.560> hard.<01:20:40.880> You<01:20:41.679> It's<01:20:41.840> just<01:20:42.000> I<01:20:42.239> felt<01:20:42.480> much<01:20:42.640> more<01:20:42.800> freer."

01:20:43.199 --> 01:20:50.560
Same<01:20:43.440> thing<01:20:43.520> on<01:20:43.760> certain,<01:20:44.480> you<01:20:44.560> know,<01:20:44.719> DMT<01:20:45.120> and<01:20:45.360> it<01:20:45.520> sort<01:20:45.679> of<01:20:45.760> like,<01:20:46.239> you<01:20:46.400> know,<01:20:46.640> I<01:20:46.800> don't<01:20:46.880> want<01:20:46.960> to<01:20:47.040> be<01:20:47.440> this<01:20:47.600> body<01:20:47.840> is<01:20:48.480> really<01:20:49.520> really<01:20:49.920> confining.

01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:54.159
It's<01:20:50.719> much<01:20:50.960> much<01:20:51.360> better<01:20:51.600> to<01:20:51.760> see<01:20:52.080> 360<01:20:52.560> and<01:20:52.800> it's<01:20:53.040> much<01:20:53.199> easier.

01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:57.760
So,<01:20:54.560> so,<01:20:55.360> so<01:20:55.679> I'm<01:20:55.920> still<01:20:56.159> feeling<01:20:56.400> my<01:20:56.640> way<01:20:56.800> around<01:20:56.960> in<01:20:57.199> this<01:20:57.360> world.

01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:06.719
I<01:20:58.000> can<01:20:58.159> say<01:20:58.320> this,<01:20:58.719> my<01:20:59.040> imagination,<01:20:59.920> I'm<01:21:00.159> I'm<01:21:00.400> really<01:21:00.719> having<01:21:00.960> to<01:21:01.199> work<01:21:02.000> to<01:21:02.320> stretch<01:21:02.640> my<01:21:02.800> imagination<01:21:03.440> here<01:21:03.840> because<01:21:04.480> I've<01:21:04.960> all<01:21:05.199> of<01:21:05.280> my<01:21:05.520> life<01:21:06.239> assumed

01:21:06.719 --> 01:21:09.840
embodiment<01:21:07.280> was<01:21:07.520> necessary<01:21:08.239> until<01:21:08.560> six<01:21:08.800> weeks<01:21:09.040> ago.

01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:18.080
And<01:21:10.480> um<01:21:11.360> you<01:21:11.600> know,<01:21:12.320> even<01:21:12.560> though<01:21:12.640> I've<01:21:12.880> known<01:21:13.040> that<01:21:13.199> this<01:21:13.360> is<01:21:13.840> I'<01:21:14.080> I've<01:21:16.320> published<01:21:16.719> for<01:21:17.040> years<01:21:17.280> that<01:21:17.520> this<01:21:17.679> is<01:21:17.760> just<01:21:17.920> a

01:21:18.080 --> 01:21:22.960
headset,<01:21:19.120> I<01:21:19.280> I'm<01:21:19.520> a<01:21:19.679> physicist<01:21:20.159> as<01:21:20.320> heart<01:21:21.280> as<01:21:21.520> much<01:21:21.600> as<01:21:21.760> anybody,<01:21:22.080> man.

01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:24.960
It<01:21:23.280> feels<01:21:23.760> like<01:21:24.159> spacetime<01:21:24.560> is<01:21:24.719> real.

01:21:24.960 --> 01:21:33.040
It<01:21:25.120> feels<01:21:25.280> like<01:21:25.440> it<01:21:25.600> to<01:21:25.760> me,<01:21:26.239> right?<01:21:26.560> So,<01:21:27.120> so<01:21:27.440> this<01:21:27.600> is<01:21:27.679> a,<01:21:27.920> you<01:21:28.000> know,<01:21:28.159> it's<01:21:28.320> a<01:21:28.480> real<01:21:29.920> I'm<01:21:30.239> saying<01:21:30.400> all<01:21:30.560> this<01:21:30.800> stuff,<01:21:30.960> but<01:21:31.360> psychologically<01:21:32.000> it's<01:21:32.159> it's<01:21:32.400> quite<01:21:32.640> quite<01:21:32.880> an

01:21:33.040 --> 01:21:38.719
effort.<01:21:33.520> Oh,<01:21:33.760> for<01:21:33.920> sure.<01:21:34.080> And<01:21:34.320> I<01:21:34.480> I'm<01:21:35.199> I'm<01:21:35.600> so<01:21:35.840> glad<01:21:36.159> you<01:21:36.400> brought<01:21:36.640> the<01:21:36.880> near-death<01:21:37.360> experiences<01:21:37.920> up,<01:21:38.480> you<01:21:38.560> know.

01:21:38.719 --> 01:21:42.560
Um,<01:21:39.199> what<01:21:39.440> you<01:21:39.679> said,<01:21:39.920> it's,<01:21:40.400> you<01:21:40.560> know,<01:21:40.719> I<01:21:40.960> actually<01:21:41.280> had<01:21:41.440> a<01:21:41.600> near-death<01:21:42.080> experience.

01:21:42.560 --> 01:21:47.120
Oh.<01:21:43.120> And<01:21:43.760> I'm<01:21:44.080> so<01:21:44.320> surprised<01:21:44.719> that<01:21:45.120> what<01:21:45.360> you<01:21:45.520> said<01:21:45.679> is<01:21:45.920> exactly<01:21:46.400> my<01:21:46.640> experience.

01:21:47.120 --> 01:21:51.120
So,<01:21:47.199> it's<01:21:47.440> like<01:21:48.000> really<01:21:48.159> I'm<01:21:48.400> really<01:21:48.640> shocked<01:21:48.880> to<01:21:49.040> hear<01:21:49.440> come<01:21:49.679> from<01:21:50.159> come<01:21:50.400> from<01:21:50.640> you.

01:21:51.120 --> 01:21:56.800
Um,<01:21:51.520> this<01:21:51.760> happened<01:21:52.080> around<01:21:52.480> 2021<01:21:53.679> and<01:21:53.920> I<01:21:54.239> basically<01:21:54.719> out<01:21:54.960> of<01:21:55.040> nowhere<01:21:55.440> I<01:21:55.679> I<01:21:56.080> was<01:21:56.320> stopping.

01:21:56.800 --> 01:22:05.199
I<01:21:57.120> never<01:21:57.280> was<01:21:57.600> diagnosed<01:21:58.080> with<01:21:58.320> asthma<01:21:58.800> before,<01:21:59.199> but<01:21:59.360> I<01:21:59.600> was<01:21:59.679> having<01:21:59.840> some<01:22:00.080> breathing<01:22:00.400> problems<01:22:00.719> and<01:22:00.960> all<01:22:01.040> of<01:22:01.120> a<01:22:01.199> sudden<01:22:01.440> I<01:22:01.760> I<01:22:02.400> was<01:22:02.639> having<01:22:02.960> struggle<01:22:04.159> with<01:22:04.480> my<01:22:04.719> breath.

01:22:05.199 --> 01:22:08.320
Wow.<01:22:05.520> And<01:22:05.679> it<01:22:05.840> was<01:22:05.920> a<01:22:06.159> whole<01:22:06.480> like<01:22:06.719> I<01:22:06.880> remember<01:22:07.199> how<01:22:07.440> it<01:22:07.600> all<01:22:07.840> started.

01:22:08.320 --> 01:22:11.120
First<01:22:08.560> it<01:22:08.719> was<01:22:08.800> denial,<01:22:09.520> right?<01:22:09.679> That<01:22:09.920> oh<01:22:10.080> no,<01:22:10.320> everything<01:22:10.480> is<01:22:10.639> going<01:22:10.719> to<01:22:10.800> be<01:22:10.880> fine.

01:22:11.120 --> 01:22:18.480
I'll<01:22:11.280> be<01:22:11.440> fine.<01:22:12.000> And<01:22:12.159> then<01:22:12.320> I<01:22:12.560> remember<01:22:13.040> walking<01:22:13.440> downstairs<01:22:14.239> and<01:22:14.480> I<01:22:14.800> slowly<01:22:15.280> felt<01:22:15.760> the<01:22:16.000> life<01:22:16.400> being<01:22:16.880> sort<01:22:17.199> of<01:22:17.280> taken<01:22:17.600> out<01:22:17.760> of<01:22:17.840> me.

01:22:18.480 --> 01:22:26.000
And<01:22:18.960> wow,<01:22:19.199> the<01:22:19.440> weirdest<01:22:19.760> thing<01:22:19.920> is<01:22:20.080> that<01:22:20.400> even<01:22:20.719> though<01:22:20.880> I<01:22:21.120> was<01:22:21.199> in<01:22:21.440> pain,<01:22:22.320> when<01:22:22.639> I<01:22:22.880> I<01:22:23.280> went<01:22:23.440> out,<01:22:23.760> I<01:22:24.000> opened<01:22:24.159> the<01:22:24.320> door<01:22:24.400> to<01:22:24.639> get<01:22:24.719> fresh<01:22:24.960> air<01:22:25.199> front<01:22:25.360> door<01:22:25.520> of<01:22:25.600> the<01:22:25.760> house,

01:22:26.000 --> 01:22:30.000
I<01:22:26.239> passed<01:22:26.480> out<01:22:27.040> and<01:22:27.199> I<01:22:27.440> felt<01:22:27.600> the<01:22:27.840> most<01:22:28.080> freeing<01:22:28.560> feeling<01:22:28.880> of<01:22:29.120> my<01:22:29.360> life.

01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:33.920
I<01:22:30.239> felt<01:22:30.639> I<01:22:31.120> I<01:22:31.520> felt<01:22:31.920> I<01:22:32.239> felt<01:22:32.880> extremely<01:22:33.600> free.

01:22:33.920 --> 01:22:42.960
And<01:22:34.159> instead<01:22:34.480> of<01:22:35.040> pain<01:22:36.000> that<01:22:36.239> we<01:22:36.480> fear<01:22:36.960> from<01:22:37.600> having<01:22:38.159> death,<01:22:38.719> experiencing<01:22:39.360> death,<01:22:39.920> I<01:22:40.239> actually<01:22:40.560> felt<01:22:42.320> like

01:22:42.960 --> 01:22:46.400
an<01:22:43.520> expression<01:22:44.560> of<01:22:44.800> my<01:22:45.040> true<01:22:45.280> nature<01:22:45.600> in<01:22:45.760> a<01:22:45.920> weird<01:22:46.159> way.

01:22:46.400 --> 01:22:50.960
It<01:22:46.639> was<01:22:47.040> it<01:22:47.280> was<01:22:47.760> it<01:22:48.000> was<01:22:48.639> the<01:22:48.960> most<01:22:50.080> painless<01:22:50.639> feeling.

01:22:50.960 --> 01:22:59.760
If<01:22:51.120> anything<01:22:51.360> I<01:22:51.600> felt<01:22:51.920> I<01:22:52.080> was<01:22:52.239> being<01:22:52.400> relieved<01:22:52.719> from<01:22:52.880> pain<01:22:53.920> and<01:22:54.239> I<01:22:54.560> and<01:22:54.800> since<01:22:55.040> then<01:22:55.280> that<01:22:55.520> was<01:22:55.600> the<01:22:55.840> beginning<01:22:56.080> of<01:22:56.320> my<01:22:57.199> uh<01:22:57.679> how<01:22:57.840> I<01:22:58.080> started<01:22:58.320> my<01:22:58.480> spiritual<01:22:58.880> journey<01:22:59.199> was

01:22:59.760 --> 01:23:02.159
was<01:23:00.000> that<01:23:00.400> was<01:23:00.639> that<01:23:00.880> near-death<01:23:01.280> experience<01:23:01.679> that<01:23:01.840> moment.

01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:04.400
Yeah.<01:23:02.800> Wow.<01:23:04.000> Wow.

01:23:04.400 --> 01:23:07.920
So<01:23:04.639> did<01:23:04.800> you<01:23:05.040> by<01:23:05.199> the<01:23:05.360> way<01:23:05.840> did<01:23:06.000> you<01:23:06.159> see<01:23:06.400> 360<01:23:06.880> when<01:23:07.040> you<01:23:07.199> were<01:23:07.360> out?

01:23:07.920 --> 01:23:11.600
I<01:23:08.400> I'll<01:23:08.800> be<01:23:08.880> honest<01:23:09.199> I<01:23:09.440> saw<01:23:09.760> like<01:23:09.920> this<01:23:10.239> white<01:23:10.639> kind<01:23:10.880> of<01:23:11.040> light.

01:23:11.600 --> 01:23:16.159
Okay.<01:23:12.000> But<01:23:12.480> I<01:23:12.800> saw<01:23:14.239> just<01:23:15.760> sky.

01:23:16.159 --> 01:23:24.560
I<01:23:16.470> just<01:23:16.781> I<01:23:17.091> just<01:23:17.402> basically<01:23:17.713> saw<01:23:18.024> myself<01:23:18.334> out<01:23:18.645> on<01:23:18.956> like<01:23:19.267> out<01:23:19.577> of<01:23:19.888> and<01:23:20.199> I<01:23:20.510> just<01:23:20.821> basically<01:23:21.131> was<01:23:21.442> a<01:23:21.753> able<01:23:22.064> to<01:23:22.374> see<01:23:22.685> my<01:23:22.996> everything<01:23:23.307> above<01:23:23.617> and<01:23:23.928> probably<01:23:24.239> No,

01:23:24.560 --> 01:23:28.000
you<01:23:24.719> didn't<01:23:24.880> see<01:23:24.960> any<01:23:25.199> body.<01:23:25.679> Nobody.<01:23:26.239> No,<01:23:26.560> there<01:23:26.719> was<01:23:26.800> no<01:23:27.040> nose<01:23:27.199> in<01:23:27.360> your<01:23:27.520> picture,<01:23:27.760> right?

01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:34.239
No,<01:23:28.159> there<01:23:28.320> was<01:23:28.400> no<01:23:28.639> nose.<01:23:29.280> So<01:23:29.760> there<01:23:29.920> we<01:23:30.480> you<01:23:30.719> have<01:23:30.800> a<01:23:30.960> your<01:23:31.199> own<01:23:31.440> example<01:23:31.760> of<01:23:31.840> of<01:23:32.239> disembodied<01:23:33.440> perception.

01:23:34.239 --> 01:23:37.199
Right.<01:23:34.480> Right<01:23:34.719> there.<01:23:35.360> That's<01:23:35.679> really<01:23:36.080> that's<01:23:36.320> good<01:23:36.480> data<01:23:36.719> for<01:23:36.880> me.

01:23:37.199 --> 01:23:39.440
So<01:23:37.600> there<01:23:37.840> was<01:23:37.920> no<01:23:38.159> nose<01:23:38.400> when<01:23:38.560> you<01:23:38.719> were<01:23:38.800> looking<01:23:39.040> around<01:23:39.199> there.

01:23:39.440 --> 01:23:46.000
There<01:23:39.600> was<01:23:39.679> nothing<01:23:39.920> in<01:23:40.080> it.<01:23:40.320> Yeah.<01:23:40.560> And<01:23:40.800> it's<01:23:41.520> and<01:23:42.159> and<01:23:42.560> coming<01:23:42.800> back<01:23:42.960> into<01:23:43.120> the<01:23:43.280> body<01:23:43.440> is<01:23:43.679> coming<01:23:43.840> back<01:23:44.000> into<01:23:45.040> this<01:23:45.360> boot<01:23:45.600> camp.

01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:48.400
It's<01:23:46.400> much<01:23:46.639> much<01:23:46.960> harder<01:23:47.199> to<01:23:47.360> do<01:23:47.600> stuff.

01:23:48.400 --> 01:23:56.719
Yeah.<01:23:48.639> It<01:23:48.960> feels<01:23:49.199> so<01:23:49.360> weird<01:23:49.600> to<01:23:49.760> say<01:23:49.920> it<01:23:50.400> out<01:23:50.639> loud<01:23:50.960> that<01:23:51.360> you<01:23:51.520> know<01:23:51.679> I<01:23:51.920> I<01:23:52.239> felt<01:23:52.639> so<01:23:52.960> much<01:23:53.199> more<01:23:53.600> better<01:23:54.080> when<01:23:54.320> that<01:23:54.560> state<01:23:54.880> like<01:23:55.040> it's<01:23:55.440> feels<01:23:55.679> awkward<01:23:56.080> in<01:23:56.320> a<01:23:56.480> way

01:23:56.719 --> 01:24:02.960
to<01:23:56.960> say<01:23:57.120> that<01:23:57.360> when<01:23:57.520> I<01:23:57.760> was<01:23:57.840> out<01:23:58.000> of<01:23:58.159> my<01:23:58.400> body<01:23:58.960> I<01:23:59.199> felt<01:24:00.080> I<01:24:00.320> felt<01:24:00.560> in<01:24:00.719> a<01:24:00.880> sense<01:24:01.120> of<01:24:01.360> I<01:24:01.679> felt<01:24:02.080> like<01:24:02.480> ecstasy.

01:24:02.960 --> 01:24:06.400
I<01:24:03.120> felt<01:24:03.360> bliss<01:24:04.080> and<01:24:04.400> it<01:24:04.719> wasn't<01:24:04.960> what<01:24:05.199> you<01:24:05.360> would<01:24:05.520> imagine<01:24:06.000> at<01:24:06.239> all.

01:24:06.400 --> 01:24:08.639
No<01:24:06.639> fear<01:24:06.800> or<01:24:06.960> terror<01:24:07.120> or<01:24:07.280> anything<01:24:07.440> like<01:24:07.520> that.<01:24:07.760> Fear<01:24:08.000> no<01:24:08.239> terror.

01:24:08.639 --> 01:24:16.560
I<01:24:08.880> felt<01:24:09.120> boundless.<01:24:10.159> And<01:24:10.320> it<01:24:10.560> was<01:24:10.880> and<01:24:11.120> I<01:24:11.280> when<01:24:11.440> I<01:24:11.760> when<01:24:12.000> the<01:24:12.159> hospital<01:24:12.560> came<01:24:13.360> uh<01:24:13.440> when<01:24:13.600> the<01:24:13.840> ambulance<01:24:14.400> came,<01:24:14.800> they<01:24:15.040> said<01:24:15.199> that<01:24:15.360> it<01:24:15.440> was<01:24:15.520> a<01:24:15.679> miracle<01:24:15.920> that<01:24:16.080> they<01:24:16.320> were<01:24:16.400> able

01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:22.560
to<01:24:16.639> get<01:24:16.800> me<01:24:16.960> back.<01:24:17.600> And<01:24:17.760> they<01:24:17.920> said<01:24:18.080> that<01:24:18.320> if<01:24:18.480> it<01:24:18.639> was<01:24:18.880> maybe<01:24:19.040> even<01:24:19.280> a<01:24:19.440> second<01:24:19.679> we<01:24:19.920> came<01:24:20.080> later,<01:24:20.400> we<01:24:20.560> wouldn't<01:24:20.800> have<01:24:20.960> been<01:24:21.120> able<01:24:21.280> to<01:24:21.360> bring<01:24:21.600> you<01:24:22.000> back<01:24:22.320> then.

01:24:22.560 --> 01:24:24.480
Oh,<01:24:22.800> so<01:24:23.040> you<01:24:23.199> were<01:24:23.360> really<01:24:23.520> gone<01:24:23.679> then?<01:24:23.840> I<01:24:24.000> was<01:24:24.080> really<01:24:24.239> gone.

01:24:24.480 --> 01:24:27.600
Yeah.<01:24:24.719> Wow.<01:24:25.120> It<01:24:25.360> was<01:24:26.239> I<01:24:26.400> almost<01:24:26.639> lost<01:24:26.800> your<01:24:27.040> brother.

01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:29.440
Yeah.<01:24:27.920> We<01:24:28.159> Yeah,<01:24:28.320> he<01:24:28.560> was<01:24:28.719> home<01:24:28.880> alone<01:24:29.199> then.

01:24:29.440 --> 01:24:36.880
We<01:24:29.600> weren't<01:24:29.840> there.<01:24:30.159> So<01:24:30.480> I<01:24:30.800> FaceTime<01:24:31.280> my<01:24:31.440> mom<01:24:31.600> and<01:24:31.760> my<01:24:31.920> family<01:24:32.159> and<01:24:32.400> my<01:24:32.639> friends<01:24:32.800> at<01:24:33.040> that<01:24:33.199> time<01:24:33.280> when<01:24:33.440> it<01:24:33.600> was<01:24:33.760> starting<01:24:33.920> to<01:24:34.080> happen<01:24:34.320> and<01:24:34.480> they<01:24:35.040> Yeah,<01:24:35.360> it<01:24:35.600> was<01:24:36.000> Yeah.

01:24:36.880 --> 01:24:40.000
All<01:24:37.040> alone.<01:24:37.360> Yeah.<01:24:37.679> Oh<01:24:37.840> my<01:24:38.000> goodness.<01:24:39.199> Yeah.

01:24:40.000 --> 01:24:45.440
Wow.<01:24:40.400> Well,<01:24:40.719> that's<01:24:41.280> uh<01:24:41.520> that<01:24:41.760> that's<01:24:42.960> personal<01:24:43.360> confirmation<01:24:44.400> of<01:24:44.560> of<01:24:44.800> this.

01:24:45.440 --> 01:24:52.000
It's<01:24:45.840> Wow.<01:24:46.480> That's<01:24:46.639> why<01:24:46.880> when<01:24:47.040> I<01:24:47.120> heard<01:24:47.360> you<01:24:47.760> say<01:24:47.920> that<01:24:48.239> example<01:24:48.480> of<01:24:48.639> near-death<01:24:49.120> experience,<01:24:49.360> I<01:24:49.520> was<01:24:49.600> I<01:24:49.760> was<01:24:49.840> like,<01:24:49.920> "Oh<01:24:50.080> my<01:24:50.320> wow,<01:24:50.480> if<01:24:50.719> that<01:24:50.960> coming<01:24:51.199> from<01:24:51.440> you<01:24:51.760> and

01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:56.159
how<01:24:52.320> that<01:24:52.560> was<01:24:52.800> exactly<01:24:53.199> my<01:24:53.440> experience<01:24:54.400> and<01:24:54.639> it<01:24:54.880> was<01:24:54.960> just<01:24:55.199> Yeah,<01:24:55.360> it's<01:24:55.600> really<01:24:55.760> profound."

01:24:56.159 --> 01:25:02.800
But<01:24:56.320> yeah.<01:24:56.639> Yeah,<01:24:56.960> it<01:24:57.120> it<01:24:57.360> does.<01:24:57.600> It's<01:24:57.840> and<01:24:58.000> it's<01:24:58.159> weird<01:24:58.400> because<01:24:58.719> I<01:24:58.880> I<01:24:59.840> it's<01:25:00.080> only<01:25:00.320> because<01:25:00.480> I<01:25:00.639> have<01:25:00.719> this<01:25:00.880> trace<01:25:01.120> logic<01:25:01.360> that<01:25:01.520> I've<01:25:01.760> even<01:25:02.159> be<01:25:02.400> thinking<01:25:02.560> this<01:25:02.719> way

01:25:02.800 --> 01:25:11.360
that<01:25:03.120> you<01:25:03.199> know<01:25:03.280> the<01:25:03.440> disembodied<01:25:05.199> experience<01:25:05.840> is<01:25:06.560> is<01:25:06.960> the<01:25:07.360> the<01:25:07.760> norm<01:25:08.239> the<01:25:08.480> the<01:25:08.880> embodied<01:25:09.440> is<01:25:09.600> is<01:25:10.000> the<01:25:10.800> is

01:25:11.360 --> 01:25:20.639
literally<01:25:11.760> probability<01:25:12.320> zero.<01:25:12.719> So<01:25:12.960> in<01:25:13.120> in<01:25:13.440> the<01:25:13.679> math<01:25:13.840> that<01:25:14.080> I've<01:25:14.239> got<01:25:14.880> the<01:25:15.360> the<01:25:15.679> if<01:25:15.920> you<01:25:16.000> look<01:25:16.080> at<01:25:16.159> the<01:25:16.320> set<01:25:16.480> of<01:25:16.639> all<01:25:16.880> possible<01:25:18.320> conscious<01:25:19.840> beings

01:25:20.639 --> 01:25:25.600
and<01:25:20.960> ask<01:25:21.199> what<01:25:21.440> fraction<01:25:21.760> of<01:25:21.840> them<01:25:22.080> are<01:25:22.239> embodied<01:25:22.960> it's<01:25:23.440> 0%<01:25:24.239> literally<01:25:24.719> 0%.

01:25:25.600 --> 01:25:34.080
So,<01:25:25.840> we're<01:25:26.000> in<01:25:26.159> that<01:25:26.400> 0%.<01:25:27.520> And<01:25:27.679> it's<01:25:28.000> it's<01:25:29.199> it's<01:25:29.440> setting<01:25:29.760> as<01:25:30.000> soon<01:25:30.080> as<01:25:30.239> we<01:25:30.639> die,<01:25:31.520> we're<01:25:31.840> back<01:25:32.080> into<01:25:32.400> the<01:25:32.880> the<01:25:33.040> the<01:25:33.679> generic

01:25:34.080 --> 01:25:38.400
case<01:25:34.800> apparently.<01:25:35.360> Yeah.<01:25:35.600> That's<01:25:35.760> that's<01:25:36.080> what<01:25:36.239> made<01:25:36.400> me<01:25:36.639> question<01:25:36.960> like<01:25:37.280> what<01:25:37.520> is<01:25:37.760> death,<01:25:38.159> right?

01:25:38.400 --> 01:25:43.280
Like<01:25:38.639> is<01:25:39.120> when<01:25:39.360> we<01:25:39.600> die,<01:25:39.920> is<01:25:40.159> it<01:25:40.320> what<01:25:40.560> we<01:25:40.719> think<01:25:40.880> that<01:25:41.120> everything<01:25:41.440> ends<01:25:41.920> or<01:25:42.080> is<01:25:42.239> the<01:25:42.320> exact<01:25:42.639> opposite?

01:25:43.280 --> 01:25:51.520
We<01:25:43.520> were,<01:25:43.760> you<01:25:43.920> know,<01:25:44.239> Yeah.<01:25:44.560> I<01:25:45.199> my<01:25:45.520> guess<01:25:45.679> is<01:25:45.840> that<01:25:46.080> it<01:25:46.320> literally<01:25:46.719> is<01:25:46.960> just<01:25:47.199> we've<01:25:47.600> we've<01:25:48.000> been<01:25:48.239> freed<01:25:48.560> from<01:25:48.880> the<01:25:49.520> the<01:25:50.159> necessary<01:25:50.639> attachment<01:25:51.120> to<01:25:51.280> an

01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:59.760
embodied<01:25:52.239> state<01:25:52.480> of<01:25:52.719> consciousness.<01:25:53.679> We<01:25:53.920> just<01:25:54.239> don't<01:25:54.800> we<01:25:56.000> we've<01:25:56.320> gone<01:25:56.560> away<01:25:56.719> from<01:25:56.880> this<01:25:57.040> measure<01:25:57.440> zero<01:25:58.639> set<01:25:59.280> the<01:25:59.520> pro

01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:05.679
this<01:26:00.000> low<01:26:00.239> probability<01:26:00.639> set<01:26:00.800> of<01:26:00.960> of<01:26:02.080> headsets<01:26:02.719> to<01:26:03.040> a<01:26:03.280> more<01:26:03.520> generic<01:26:04.320> headset.

01:26:05.679 --> 01:26:14.320
This<01:26:05.840> is<01:26:06.239> pretty<01:26:06.560> wild.<01:26:07.199> I<01:26:07.360> know<01:26:07.600> you're<01:26:08.000> working<01:26:08.320> already<01:26:08.719> with<01:26:08.960> individuals<01:26:09.920> um<01:26:10.159> like<01:26:10.400> non-speaking<01:26:11.120> autistic<01:26:11.840> people,<01:26:12.239> but<01:26:12.800> are<01:26:13.040> you<01:26:13.199> planning<01:26:13.520> to<01:26:13.840> explore

01:26:14.320 --> 01:26:19.040
like<01:26:14.800> studying<01:26:15.280> individuals<01:26:15.840> who<01:26:16.000> have<01:26:16.159> had<01:26:16.320> outer<01:26:16.639> body<01:26:16.960> experiences<01:26:17.440> or<01:26:17.679> near-death<01:26:18.239> experiences?

01:26:19.040 --> 01:26:23.040
I<01:26:19.280> know<01:26:19.360> there<01:26:19.600> are<01:26:19.760> a<01:26:20.000> lot<01:26:20.080> of<01:26:20.239> recorded<01:26:20.719> studies<01:26:21.360> as<01:26:21.600> well<01:26:21.840> for<01:26:22.080> those<01:26:22.320> people.

01:26:23.040 --> 01:26:28.159
Yes.<01:26:23.520> Now<01:26:23.679> I<01:26:23.840> I<01:26:24.400> personally<01:26:24.880> don't<01:26:25.280> plan<01:26:25.679> to<01:26:26.719> do<01:26:27.040> experiments<01:26:27.600> myself.

01:26:28.159 --> 01:26:36.880
Um<01:26:29.600> I<01:26:29.760> I<01:26:30.080> but<01:26:30.320> I<01:26:30.480> plan<01:26:30.639> to<01:26:30.960> talk<01:26:31.199> with<01:26:31.440> people<01:26:31.679> who<01:26:32.880> and<01:26:33.199> I<01:26:33.360> I<01:26:33.840> I'm<01:26:34.239> working<01:26:34.480> with<01:26:34.639> this<01:26:34.960> new<01:26:35.360> trace<01:26:35.840> research<01:26:36.320> institute.

01:26:36.880 --> 01:26:45.120
Um<01:26:37.600> and<01:26:37.840> I<01:26:38.000> think<01:26:38.080> the<01:26:38.239> trace<01:26:38.560> research<01:26:38.960> institute<01:26:39.360> will<01:26:39.760> that<01:26:40.159> we<01:26:40.400> will<01:26:40.639> we<01:26:40.880> will<01:26:41.040> do<01:26:41.199> that<01:26:42.000> uh<01:26:42.239> at<01:26:42.320> at<01:26:42.639> the<01:26:42.719> institute<01:26:43.360> that<01:26:43.920> but<01:26:44.239> for<01:26:44.400> for<01:26:44.719> me<01:26:44.880> I

01:26:45.120 --> 01:26:53.360
think<01:26:45.280> my<01:26:45.440> my<01:26:45.840> time<01:26:46.080> is<01:26:46.239> best<01:26:46.480> spent<01:26:47.520> just<01:26:47.840> understanding<01:26:48.480> the<01:26:48.800> reports<01:26:49.679> and<01:26:49.920> and<01:26:50.239> listening<01:26:50.560> to<01:26:50.800> the<01:26:51.600> results<01:26:51.920> of<01:26:52.159> experiments<01:26:52.560> that<01:26:52.719> that<01:26:52.960> that<01:26:53.199> are

01:26:53.360 --> 01:26:58.719
done.<01:26:54.159> My<01:26:54.320> my<01:26:54.400> my<01:26:54.960> part<01:26:55.280> now<01:26:55.520> I<01:26:55.760> think<01:26:55.840> is<01:26:56.080> to<01:26:56.639> not<01:26:56.880> do<01:26:57.040> experiments<01:26:57.440> myself<01:26:57.760> but<01:26:57.920> to<01:26:58.080> work<01:26:58.239> on<01:26:58.400> the<01:26:58.480> theory.

01:26:58.719 --> 01:27:05.840
So,<01:26:58.880> I'm<01:26:59.040> really<01:26:59.199> trying<01:26:59.440> to<01:26:59.679> do<01:26:59.840> the<01:27:00.080> theoretical<01:27:00.560> side,<01:27:00.960> but<01:27:01.440> I<01:27:01.679> I've<01:27:03.040> um

01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:14.960
we're<01:27:06.080> working<01:27:06.400> with<01:27:06.880> Andrew<01:27:07.280> Gallamore,<01:27:08.480> who<01:27:08.880> studies<01:27:09.280> DMT<01:27:09.840> and<01:27:10.000> and<01:27:10.239> some<01:27:10.560> and<01:27:10.719> DMT<01:27:11.360> experiencers<01:27:12.159> also<01:27:12.639> have<01:27:12.880> this<01:27:13.120> kind<01:27:13.280> of<01:27:14.560> popping

01:27:14.960 --> 01:27:23.199
out<01:27:15.120> of<01:27:15.280> this<01:27:15.679> particular<01:27:16.159> headset<01:27:16.560> and<01:27:16.960> out<01:27:17.120> of<01:27:17.280> this<01:27:17.440> body<01:27:17.679> and<01:27:18.239> into<01:27:18.639> other<01:27:18.960> realms<01:27:19.679> where<01:27:19.920> you're<01:27:20.239> you're<01:27:21.440> there<01:27:21.679> are<01:27:21.760> too<01:27:22.000> many<01:27:22.159> dimensions.

01:27:23.199 --> 01:27:25.120
It's<01:27:23.440> not<01:27:23.600> just<01:27:23.760> three.<01:27:24.080> Now,<01:27:24.320> what<01:27:24.480> what's<01:27:24.719> going<01:27:24.880> on?

01:27:25.120 --> 01:27:29.360
There's<01:27:25.360> lots<01:27:25.520> of<01:27:25.600> dimensions<01:27:26.000> here<01:27:26.239> and<01:27:26.400> and<01:27:26.800> there<01:27:26.960> are<01:27:27.040> new<01:27:27.199> kinds<01:27:27.440> of<01:27:27.520> beings<01:27:27.840> I've<01:27:28.080> never<01:27:28.239> seen<01:27:28.560> before.

01:27:29.360 --> 01:27:38.159
And<01:27:30.639> of<01:27:30.880> course,<01:27:31.040> we<01:27:31.199> we<01:27:32.239> don't<01:27:32.480> know<01:27:32.639> whether<01:27:32.960> it's<01:27:33.199> just<01:27:34.080> things<01:27:34.400> getting<01:27:34.639> screwed<01:27:34.880> up<01:27:34.960> and<01:27:35.120> it's<01:27:35.280> just<01:27:35.440> nonsense<01:27:36.239> or<01:27:36.560> if<01:27:36.719> we're<01:27:37.040> actually<01:27:37.840> looking

01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:46.159
at<01:27:38.560> some<01:27:39.120> deeper<01:27:39.440> headsets.<01:27:40.080> So,<01:27:40.480> so<01:27:40.639> I'm<01:27:40.880> I'm<01:27:41.360> again<01:27:41.600> a<01:27:41.760> hard<01:27:42.000> nose<01:27:42.480> as<01:27:42.719> you<01:27:42.800> know<01:27:43.040> I<01:27:43.280> talked<01:27:43.440> about<01:27:43.600> the<01:27:43.760> swami<01:27:44.159> and<01:27:44.239> the<01:27:44.400> experiments<01:27:44.800> I<01:27:44.960> did<01:27:45.120> and<01:27:45.280> when<01:27:45.520> I'm<01:27:45.760> very<01:27:45.920> very

01:27:46.159 --> 01:27:51.679
careful<01:27:46.480> I<01:27:46.639> I<01:27:46.880> can<01:27:47.040> do<01:27:47.120> these<01:27:47.360> experiments<01:27:47.679> and<01:27:47.920> I'm<01:27:48.159> really<01:27:48.400> hard-nosed<01:27:48.960> about<01:27:49.120> it<01:27:49.679> and<01:27:50.480> he<01:27:50.719> had<01:27:50.960> nothing.

01:27:51.679 --> 01:27:59.280
He<01:27:51.920> showed<01:27:52.239> nothing.<01:27:53.120> But<01:27:53.920> but<01:27:54.239> I'm<01:27:54.480> completely<01:27:54.880> open<01:27:55.120> that<01:27:55.280> that<01:27:55.520> there<01:27:55.679> will<01:27:55.840> be<01:27:56.000> people<01:27:56.239> who<01:27:56.480> do<01:27:56.639> show<01:27:56.880> something<01:27:57.040> and<01:27:57.280> it<01:27:57.440> will<01:27:57.520> it<01:27:57.760> will<01:27:57.920> be<01:27:58.000> real<01:27:58.560> and<01:27:58.719> if<01:27:58.880> it<01:27:59.040> gets

01:27:59.280 --> 01:28:02.719
past<01:27:59.760> experiments<01:28:00.239> that<01:28:00.480> I've<01:28:00.719> designed<01:28:01.199> then<01:28:01.440> I'll<01:28:01.600> be<01:28:01.920> I'll<01:28:02.239> be<01:28:02.320> impressed.

01:28:02.719 --> 01:28:05.120
I<01:28:02.880> mean<01:28:03.040> because<01:28:03.440> they're<01:28:03.760> they'll<01:28:04.000> be<01:28:04.080> hard-nosed<01:28:04.639> experiments.

01:28:05.120 --> 01:28:10.480
So<01:28:05.360> I'm<01:28:06.960> but<01:28:07.760> to<01:28:07.920> answer<01:28:08.080> your<01:28:08.239> question<01:28:08.480> I<01:28:08.639> I<01:28:08.960> don't<01:28:09.040> think<01:28:09.199> I<01:28:09.440> personally<01:28:09.760> will<01:28:10.000> do<01:28:10.159> that.

01:28:10.480 --> 01:28:17.679
I<01:28:10.719> think<01:28:12.000> um<01:28:12.159> I<01:28:12.320> will<01:28:12.560> probably<01:28:12.800> focus<01:28:13.120> myself<01:28:13.760> on<01:28:14.000> on<01:28:14.320> pushing<01:28:14.639> the<01:28:14.800> theory<01:28:15.120> forward<01:28:15.360> and<01:28:15.600> have<01:28:15.760> collaborators<01:28:16.239> who<01:28:16.400> do<01:28:16.560> the<01:28:16.719> experiments.

01:28:17.679 --> 01:28:25.760
Yeah.<01:28:18.080> It<01:28:18.320> almost<01:28:18.560> makes<01:28:18.800> me<01:28:19.120> think<01:28:19.440> if<01:28:19.679> you<01:28:19.920> are<01:28:20.159> able<01:28:20.719> to<01:28:21.040> actually<01:28:21.360> get<01:28:21.679> somewhere<01:28:22.080> with<01:28:22.400> with<01:28:22.800> what<01:28:22.960> you're<01:28:23.360> doing<01:28:23.600> right<01:28:23.840> now<01:28:24.000> and<01:28:24.239> studying<01:28:24.639> with<01:28:24.960> people<01:28:25.360> having

01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:34.400
special<01:28:26.080> powers<01:28:26.560> and<01:28:27.760> do<01:28:27.920> you<01:28:28.080> think<01:28:28.159> there<01:28:28.400> can<01:28:28.560> be<01:28:28.880> consequences<01:28:29.520> in<01:28:29.760> the<01:28:29.920> future<01:28:30.159> of<01:28:30.480> people<01:28:30.960> essentially<01:28:31.600> negative<01:28:32.000> consequences<01:28:32.560> I<01:28:32.719> would<01:28:32.880> like<01:28:32.960> to<01:28:33.120> say<01:28:33.600> of<01:28:34.000> people

01:28:34.400 --> 01:28:41.840
essentially<01:28:34.800> wanting<01:28:35.120> to<01:28:35.440> just<01:28:35.760> focus<01:28:36.080> on<01:28:36.320> that<01:28:36.480> and<01:28:36.719> obtain<01:28:37.360> somehow<01:28:37.840> that<01:28:38.159> through<01:28:38.960> a<01:28:39.199> theory<01:28:39.600> or<01:28:39.840> something<01:28:40.080> like<01:28:40.239> that.

01:28:41.840 --> 01:28:50.080
I<01:28:42.159> think<01:28:43.040> that<01:28:44.239> the<01:28:44.560> potential<01:28:44.960> power<01:28:45.760> that<01:28:46.080> we're<01:28:46.239> going<01:28:46.320> to<01:28:46.480> get<01:28:46.639> from<01:28:46.960> understanding<01:28:49.040> the<01:28:49.360> possibilities<01:28:49.920> of

01:28:50.080 --> 01:29:01.199
disembodied<01:28:50.719> cognition<01:28:51.760> are<01:28:53.440> enormous<01:28:54.719> for<01:28:55.040> good<01:28:55.280> or<01:28:55.679> for<01:28:55.920> other<01:28:56.239> purposes.

01:29:01.199 --> 01:29:05.120
I<01:29:01.520> think<01:29:01.600> that

01:29:05.120 --> 01:29:13.360
for<01:29:05.360> those<01:29:05.600> who<01:29:05.840> really<01:29:06.400> go<01:29:06.560> into<01:29:06.880> it<01:29:08.159> personally<01:29:09.600> and<01:29:10.000> really<01:29:10.400> understand<01:29:11.120> I<01:29:11.360> think<01:29:11.440> the<01:29:11.679> lesson<01:29:11.920> that<01:29:12.159> we<01:29:12.320> learn<01:29:12.560> from<01:29:12.719> this<01:29:13.040> that<01:29:13.199> is

01:29:13.360 --> 01:29:19.120
that<01:29:13.520> there<01:29:13.679> is<01:29:13.840> one<01:29:14.080> consciousness<01:29:15.600> and<01:29:16.960> our<01:29:17.199> different<01:29:17.440> bodies<01:29:17.760> are<01:29:17.920> just<01:29:18.159> avatars<01:29:18.639> of<01:29:18.800> the<01:29:18.880> one.

01:29:19.120 --> 01:29:24.480
I'm<01:29:19.280> really<01:29:19.440> talking<01:29:19.679> to<01:29:19.840> myself<01:29:21.120> with<01:29:21.440> three<01:29:21.679> avatars<01:29:22.719> is<01:29:22.960> what's<01:29:23.199> really<01:29:23.679> going<01:29:23.920> on<01:29:24.080> here.

01:29:24.480 --> 01:29:34.320
And<01:29:24.880> if<01:29:25.120> you<01:29:25.679> understand<01:29:26.080> that<01:29:26.320> that<01:29:26.800> that's<01:29:27.120> the<01:29:27.360> foundational<01:29:28.320> understanding<01:29:28.880> for<01:29:29.120> this<01:29:29.280> disembodied<01:29:30.560> cognition<01:29:31.600> point<01:29:31.760> of<01:29:31.920> view,<01:29:33.360> then

01:29:34.320 --> 01:29:39.199
I<01:29:34.560> would<01:29:34.719> not<01:29:34.880> want<01:29:35.040> to<01:29:35.199> use<01:29:35.280> the<01:29:35.520> technology<01:29:35.920> to<01:29:36.159> hurt<01:29:36.400> other<01:29:36.560> people<01:29:36.800> because<01:29:37.760> that's<01:29:38.080> me.

01:29:39.199 --> 01:29:43.040
I<01:29:39.440> am<01:29:39.600> my<01:29:39.840> neighbor.<01:29:40.159> My<01:29:40.320> neighbor<01:29:40.480> is,<01:29:40.800> you<01:29:40.880> know,<01:29:41.040> love<01:29:41.199> your<01:29:41.280> neighbor<01:29:41.440> as<01:29:41.600> yourself<01:29:41.920> because<01:29:42.080> your<01:29:42.239> neighbor<01:29:42.480> is<01:29:42.639> yourself.

01:29:43.040 --> 01:29:53.280
So,<01:29:43.840> but<01:29:44.159> for<01:29:44.480> those<01:29:44.800> who<01:29:45.199> just<01:29:45.600> get<01:29:45.760> the<01:29:46.000> technology<01:29:46.480> without<01:29:46.800> really<01:29:47.040> understanding<01:29:47.520> why<01:29:47.840> the<01:29:48.080> technology<01:29:48.480> is<01:29:48.719> what<01:29:48.880> it<01:29:49.040> is,<01:29:50.080> then<01:29:50.480> yes,<01:29:50.880> then<01:29:51.120> there's

01:29:53.280 --> 01:30:01.840
potential<01:29:53.840> danger.<01:29:54.320> Absolutely.<01:29:54.880> And<01:29:55.520> I<01:29:56.800> don't<01:29:57.040> doubt<01:29:57.360> that<01:29:57.920> um<01:29:58.719> that's<01:29:59.040> real<01:30:00.000> a<01:30:00.239> real<01:30:00.480> potential.

01:30:01.840 --> 01:30:05.679
I<01:30:02.239> um<01:30:02.400> I<01:30:02.639> did<01:30:02.800> read<01:30:02.960> your<01:30:03.199> paper<01:30:03.520> that's<01:30:03.840> unpublished<01:30:04.320> that<01:30:04.560> you<01:30:04.719> sent<01:30:04.880> to<01:30:05.040> me<01:30:05.199> before.

01:30:05.679 --> 01:30:11.040
Can<01:30:05.920> you<01:30:06.000> talk<01:30:06.159> a<01:30:06.400> little<01:30:06.480> bit<01:30:06.639> more<01:30:06.800> about<01:30:07.040> what<01:30:07.199> you're<01:30:07.440> exactly<01:30:07.840> doing<01:30:08.000> with<01:30:08.159> the<01:30:08.320> the<01:30:08.639> Trace<01:30:09.040> Institute?

01:30:11.040 --> 01:30:19.520
Right.<01:30:11.360> So<01:30:11.600> the<01:30:11.920> the<01:30:12.239> trace<01:30:12.639> institute<01:30:13.840> is<01:30:14.239> named<01:30:14.719> trace<01:30:15.120> because<01:30:15.360> of<01:30:15.600> a<01:30:15.760> particular<01:30:16.880> technical<01:30:17.520> operation<01:30:18.000> that<01:30:18.159> that<01:30:18.560> is<01:30:18.719> the<01:30:18.960> foundation<01:30:19.280> of

01:30:19.520 --> 01:30:27.760
our<01:30:19.840> of<01:30:20.080> our<01:30:20.320> work.<01:30:20.719> So<01:30:22.000> the<01:30:23.199> the<01:30:23.679> big<01:30:23.920> idea<01:30:24.239> for<01:30:24.400> the<01:30:24.560> trace<01:30:24.960> institute<01:30:25.360> is<01:30:26.560> science<01:30:27.040> needs<01:30:27.520> a

01:30:27.760 --> 01:30:32.639
theory<01:30:28.080> of<01:30:28.239> the<01:30:28.400> observer.<01:30:30.000> The<01:30:30.159> observer<01:30:30.639> is<01:30:30.800> the<01:30:30.960> foundation<01:30:31.440> of<01:30:31.760> science.

01:30:32.639 --> 01:30:35.440
Observers<01:30:33.199> collect<01:30:33.440> the<01:30:33.600> data.<01:30:33.920> They<01:30:34.080> compare<01:30:34.560> notes.

01:30:35.440 --> 01:30:38.960
They<01:30:35.679> create<01:30:35.920> the<01:30:36.080> theories<01:30:36.639> and<01:30:36.800> then<01:30:36.960> they<01:30:37.120> use<01:30:37.280> their<01:30:37.520> observations<01:30:38.000> to<01:30:38.239> test<01:30:38.480> their<01:30:38.639> theories.

01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:47.920
So<01:30:39.120> observers<01:30:39.679> are<01:30:39.920> everywhere<01:30:40.560> in<01:30:40.880> science<01:30:41.760> and<01:30:42.080> we<01:30:42.320> don't<01:30:42.560> have<01:30:43.440> a<01:30:43.679> mathematical<01:30:44.159> theory<01:30:44.480> of<01:30:44.560> the<01:30:44.719> observer<01:30:45.120> yet<01:30:45.440> that's<01:30:45.760> widely<01:30:46.159> accepted<01:30:46.560> and<01:30:46.719> and<01:30:46.800> and<01:30:47.600> not

01:30:47.920 --> 01:30:56.480
epistemologically<01:30:48.880> problematic.<01:30:50.880> And<01:30:51.120> so<01:30:53.280> the<01:30:53.520> the<01:30:54.000> trace<01:30:54.800> the<01:30:55.040> basic<01:30:55.280> idea<01:30:55.520> in<01:30:55.679> the<01:30:55.840> trace<01:30:56.159> institute

01:30:56.480 --> 01:31:00.000
is<01:30:57.040> what's<01:30:57.360> the<01:30:57.600> simplest<01:30:58.080> notion<01:30:58.400> of<01:30:58.560> observation<01:30:59.040> that<01:30:59.280> we<01:30:59.440> could<01:30:59.600> have.

01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:04.320
The<01:31:00.239> simplest<01:31:00.560> notion<01:31:00.960> says<01:31:01.360> an<01:31:01.600> observer<01:31:02.560> has<01:31:02.800> certain<01:31:03.120> outcomes<01:31:03.440> that<01:31:03.679> they<01:31:03.840> could<01:31:03.920> perceive.

01:31:04.320 --> 01:31:06.480
Maybe<01:31:04.480> I<01:31:04.560> can<01:31:04.639> see<01:31:04.800> red,<01:31:05.040> green<01:31:05.199> and<01:31:05.360> yellow.<01:31:05.600> A<01:31:05.760> very<01:31:06.000> simple<01:31:06.159> observer.

01:31:06.480 --> 01:31:15.040
That's<01:31:06.639> all<01:31:06.719> I<01:31:06.880> can<01:31:06.960> see.<01:31:07.120> Red,<01:31:07.280> green,<01:31:07.440> and<01:31:07.679> yellow.<01:31:08.560> And<01:31:09.440> so<01:31:09.840> but<01:31:10.000> but<01:31:10.239> another<01:31:10.560> observer<01:31:10.880> might<01:31:11.040> have<01:31:11.199> trillions<01:31:11.600> or<01:31:12.000> or<01:31:13.679> a<01:31:13.840> Google<01:31:14.159> plex<01:31:14.480> of

01:31:15.040 --> 01:31:20.400
of<01:31:15.520> experiences<01:31:16.080> that<01:31:16.239> they<01:31:16.400> could<01:31:16.560> that<01:31:16.880> they<01:31:17.040> could<01:31:17.360> um<01:31:18.400> experience.

01:31:20.400 --> 01:31:23.840
The<01:31:20.560> other<01:31:20.800> thing<01:31:20.960> is<01:31:21.199> that<01:31:21.840> these<01:31:22.719> uh<01:31:22.880> experiences<01:31:23.440> change.

01:31:23.840 --> 01:31:28.400
So<01:31:24.000> I<01:31:24.239> see<01:31:24.560> green<01:31:24.880> now,<01:31:25.280> I<01:31:25.520> see<01:31:25.679> red<01:31:25.920> next,<01:31:26.239> and<01:31:26.800> so<01:31:27.040> forth.

01:31:28.400 --> 01:31:32.400
And<01:31:28.719> what's<01:31:29.040> the<01:31:29.280> simplest<01:31:29.600> mathematical<01:31:30.639> structure<01:31:31.040> that<01:31:31.280> you<01:31:31.440> could<01:31:31.520> use<01:31:31.679> to<01:31:31.840> write<01:31:32.000> that<01:31:32.159> down?

01:31:32.400 --> 01:31:34.560
So<01:31:32.639> everything<01:31:32.960> we're<01:31:33.120> trying<01:31:33.199> to<01:31:33.360> be<01:31:33.600> minimal,<01:31:34.239> right?

01:31:34.560 --> 01:31:37.040
You<01:31:34.719> could<01:31:34.880> make<01:31:35.040> an<01:31:35.280> observer<01:31:35.679> as<01:31:35.840> complicated<01:31:36.239> as<01:31:36.400> you<01:31:36.560> want.

01:31:37.040 --> 01:31:39.040
I'm<01:31:37.280> making<01:31:37.440> it<01:31:37.600> as<01:31:37.840> simple<01:31:38.000> as<01:31:38.159> I<01:31:38.400> possibly<01:31:38.719> can.

01:31:39.040 --> 01:31:44.239
There<01:31:39.280> are<01:31:39.520> experiences<01:31:40.239> or<01:31:40.480> outcomes.<01:31:41.040> If<01:31:41.199> you<01:31:41.280> don't<01:31:41.440> want<01:31:41.679> consciousness,<01:31:42.400> just<01:31:42.560> call<01:31:42.719> them<01:31:43.120> observation<01:31:43.679> outcomes.

01:31:44.239 --> 01:31:47.760
If<01:31:44.400> you<01:31:44.480> like<01:31:44.719> consciousness,<01:31:45.199> then<01:31:45.440> call<01:31:45.600> them<01:31:46.560> conscious<01:31:47.040> experiences.

01:31:47.760 --> 01:31:51.840
So,<01:31:48.000> I'll<01:31:48.239> just<01:31:48.480> talk<01:31:48.639> about<01:31:48.800> outcomes<01:31:49.280> to<01:31:49.520> make<01:31:49.600> it<01:31:50.320> unoffensive<01:31:51.040> to<01:31:51.199> everybody.

01:31:51.840 --> 01:31:55.760
So,<01:31:52.000> there<01:31:52.159> are<01:31:52.320> observation<01:31:52.800> outcomes<01:31:53.360> and<01:31:53.679> those<01:31:53.840> outcomes<01:31:54.320> can<01:31:54.480> change.

01:31:55.760 --> 01:32:00.560
That's<01:31:56.000> it.<01:31:56.480> And<01:31:56.639> the<01:31:56.880> simplest<01:31:57.280> math<01:31:57.840> that<01:31:58.159> to<01:31:58.480> write<01:31:58.639> that<01:31:58.800> down<01:31:58.960> is<01:31:59.199> something<01:31:59.360> called<01:31:59.520> a<01:31:59.679> Markov<01:32:00.159> matrix.

01:32:00.560 --> 01:32:03.120
Right?<01:32:00.800> You<01:32:01.040> literally<01:32:01.520> list<01:32:01.840> in<01:32:02.000> a<01:32:02.239> column.

01:32:03.120 --> 01:32:06.880
The<01:32:03.360> first<01:32:04.159> element<01:32:04.480> is<01:32:04.719> the<01:32:04.960> first<01:32:05.040> outcome<01:32:05.520> and<01:32:05.840> second<01:32:06.080> outcome.

01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:15.280
And<01:32:07.120> then<01:32:07.679> on<01:32:07.920> the<01:32:08.320> rows<01:32:08.480> you<01:32:08.719> say<01:32:08.880> if<01:32:09.199> I,<01:32:09.440> you<01:32:09.679> know,<01:32:10.480> if<01:32:10.719> I'm<01:32:11.199> seeing<01:32:11.440> outcome<01:32:11.840> one<01:32:12.000> now,<01:32:12.239> what's<01:32:12.480> the<01:32:12.639> probability<01:32:12.960> that<01:32:13.040> I'll<01:32:13.280> see<01:32:13.440> outcome<01:32:14.239> one<01:32:14.560> next<01:32:14.960> or

01:32:15.280 --> 01:32:20.480
two<01:32:15.520> or<01:32:15.679> three<01:32:15.840> or<01:32:16.080> four.<01:32:16.320> You<01:32:16.480> just<01:32:16.560> write<01:32:16.719> down<01:32:16.880> the<01:32:17.040> numbers<01:32:17.520> and<01:32:17.679> those<01:32:17.840> numbers<01:32:18.080> have<01:32:18.239> to<01:32:18.320> add<01:32:18.480> up<01:32:18.639> to<01:32:18.800> one<01:32:19.040> because<01:32:19.280> it's<01:32:19.440> a<01:32:19.679> probability.

01:32:20.480 --> 01:32:28.239
So<01:32:20.639> you<01:32:20.880> just<01:32:21.040> have,<01:32:21.440> you<01:32:21.600> know,<01:32:21.840> if<01:32:22.000> there<01:32:22.159> are<01:32:22.320> n<01:32:22.639> outcomes,<01:32:23.199> then<01:32:23.440> you<01:32:23.600> have<01:32:23.920> n<01:32:24.560> probability<01:32:25.120> measures<01:32:25.840> which<01:32:26.159> tell<01:32:26.320> you<01:32:26.639> the<01:32:26.880> probabilities<01:32:27.440> if<01:32:27.600> you<01:32:27.760> start<01:32:27.840> in<01:32:28.080> that

01:32:28.239 --> 01:32:30.480
outcome,<01:32:28.719> what<01:32:29.199> you'll<01:32:29.440> see<01:32:29.600> of<01:32:29.760> the<01:32:29.920> other<01:32:30.080> outcomes.

01:32:30.480 --> 01:32:34.000
That's<01:32:30.639> it.<01:32:30.960> That's<01:32:31.199> it's<01:32:31.520> that<01:32:31.840> simple.<01:32:32.400> So<01:32:32.639> that's<01:32:32.880> our<01:32:33.040> entire<01:32:33.280> theory.

01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:41.520
We<01:32:34.239> say<01:32:35.679> for<01:32:35.920> every<01:32:37.040> observer<01:32:38.000> there's<01:32:38.239> a<01:32:38.320> Markov<01:32:38.719> matrix<01:32:39.120> and<01:32:39.360> for<01:32:39.520> every<01:32:39.679> Markov<01:32:40.000> matrix<01:32:40.320> there's<01:32:40.560> an<01:32:40.639> observer.

01:32:41.520 --> 01:32:47.360
Just<01:32:41.760> that<01:32:42.000> simple.<01:32:42.400> So<01:32:42.560> you<01:32:42.800> can<01:32:42.880> look,<01:32:43.120> there's<01:32:43.840> Markov<01:32:44.239> matrices<01:32:44.800> are<01:32:46.000> were<01:32:46.320> discovered<01:32:46.639> in<01:32:46.800> 1905.

01:32:47.360 --> 01:32:50.320
They've<01:32:47.600> only<01:32:47.760> been<01:32:47.920> around<01:32:48.159> for<01:32:48.639> 121<01:32:49.040> years.

01:32:50.320 --> 01:32:52.320
And<01:32:51.040> um<01:32:51.199> they<01:32:51.440> can<01:32:51.600> be<01:32:51.679> as<01:32:51.840> big<01:32:51.920> as<01:32:52.000> you<01:32:52.159> want.

01:32:52.320 --> 01:33:00.000
They<01:32:52.480> can<01:32:52.560> go<01:32:52.639> off<01:32:52.800> to<01:32:52.960> infinity.<01:32:53.920> And<01:32:54.239> there's<01:32:54.639> a<01:32:55.280> there<01:32:55.520> was<01:32:55.679> one<01:32:56.080> there's<01:32:56.400> one<01:32:56.639> notion<01:32:57.040> called<01:32:57.280> the<01:32:57.520> trace<01:32:57.920> that's<01:32:58.159> been<01:32:58.320> known<01:32:58.560> for<01:32:59.040> many,<01:32:59.280> many<01:32:59.600> decades.

01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:02.239
So<01:33:00.159> it's<01:33:00.400> not<01:33:00.480> me,<01:33:00.719> it's<01:33:00.880> not<01:33:01.199> my<01:33:01.440> team<01:33:01.679> that<01:33:01.920> did<01:33:02.000> this.

01:33:02.239 --> 01:33:07.360
This<01:33:02.565> is<01:33:02.891> well<01:33:03.216> known<01:33:03.542> in<01:33:03.868> mathematics.<01:33:04.194> I<01:33:04.520> have<01:33:04.845> a<01:33:05.171> particular<01:33:05.497> matrix,<01:33:05.823> say<01:33:06.148> a<01:33:06.474> 10x10<01:33:06.800> matrix.

01:33:07.360 --> 01:33:10.639
So<01:33:07.520> 10<01:33:07.760> outcomes<01:33:08.560> and<01:33:08.960> 10<01:33:09.280> probability<01:33:09.760> measures.

01:33:10.639 --> 01:33:18.159
And<01:33:10.800> I<01:33:11.040> say<01:33:11.360> okay,<01:33:11.760> suppose<01:33:12.080> this<01:33:12.320> is<01:33:12.400> the<01:33:12.639> matrix<01:33:14.239> and<01:33:14.480> I<01:33:14.719> want<01:33:14.880> to<01:33:15.440> that<01:33:15.679> that's<01:33:15.920> governing<01:33:16.239> what<01:33:16.719> this<01:33:16.960> observer<01:33:17.440> sees.

01:33:18.159 --> 01:33:21.520
But<01:33:18.320> now<01:33:18.480> I<01:33:18.719> want<01:33:19.120> a<01:33:19.440> subobserver<01:33:20.080> that's<01:33:20.320> only<01:33:20.560> seeing<01:33:20.800> those<01:33:21.040> three.

01:33:21.520 --> 01:33:27.840
So<01:33:21.679> it's<01:33:21.840> a<01:33:22.080> it's<01:33:22.480> just<01:33:22.960> the<01:33:23.280> same<01:33:23.520> observer<01:33:23.920> as<01:33:24.080> this<01:33:24.239> guy<01:33:24.400> but<01:33:24.480> but<01:33:24.880> can't<01:33:25.040> see<01:33:25.199> the<01:33:25.440> first<01:33:25.679> seven<01:33:25.920> but<01:33:26.080> it<01:33:26.239> can<01:33:26.320> only<01:33:26.480> see<01:33:26.639> the<01:33:26.880> last<01:33:27.040> three<01:33:27.199> outcomes.

01:33:27.840 --> 01:33:34.719
What<01:33:28.000> would<01:33:28.159> their<01:33:28.400> matrix<01:33:28.719> be?<01:33:28.800> It<01:33:28.960> would<01:33:29.120> be<01:33:29.199> a<01:33:29.280> different<01:33:29.440> 3x3<01:33:29.920> matrix<01:33:30.239> than<01:33:30.480> if<01:33:30.639> you<01:33:30.800> just<01:33:30.960> looked<01:33:31.120> at<01:33:31.199> the<01:33:31.360> 3x3<01:33:32.080> that<01:33:32.639> by<01:33:33.120> erasing<01:33:33.440> everything<01:33:33.760> because<01:33:34.159> even<01:33:34.400> those

01:33:34.719 --> 01:33:38.800
three<01:33:35.440> the<01:33:35.679> 3x3<01:33:36.239> would<01:33:36.400> not<01:33:36.480> be<01:33:36.719> summing<01:33:37.120> up<01:33:37.199> to<01:33:37.360> one<01:33:37.600> for<01:33:37.760> example.

01:33:38.800 --> 01:33:45.440
Um<01:33:39.164> so<01:33:39.527> you'd<01:33:39.891> have<01:33:40.255> to<01:33:40.618> and<01:33:40.982> it's<01:33:41.345> it's<01:33:41.709> a<01:33:42.073> complicated<01:33:42.436> it's<01:33:42.800> a

01:33:45.440 --> 01:33:51.440
the<01:33:45.600> formula<01:33:46.159> ultimately<01:33:46.400> is<01:33:46.639> not<01:33:46.800> complicated<01:33:47.199> but<01:33:47.520> you<01:33:47.760> have<01:33:47.840> to<01:33:48.320> do<01:33:48.560> it's<01:33:48.800> a<01:33:48.880> complicated<01:33:49.280> thing<01:33:49.360> because<01:33:49.440> you<01:33:49.600> have<01:33:49.679> to<01:33:49.760> look<01:33:49.840> at<01:33:50.000> all<01:33:50.159> possible<01:33:50.719> once<01:33:51.040> I<01:33:51.199> go<01:33:51.280> into

01:33:51.440 --> 01:33:57.040
these<01:33:51.760> the<01:33:52.000> three<01:33:52.239> states<01:33:52.880> I<01:33:53.120> could<01:33:53.280> go<01:33:53.440> out<01:33:53.520> into<01:33:53.679> the<01:33:53.920> other<01:33:54.080> seven<01:33:54.320> states,<01:33:54.639> do<01:33:54.719> all<01:33:54.880> sorts<01:33:55.120> of<01:33:55.199> stuff,<01:33:55.280> and<01:33:55.440> then<01:33:55.679> come<01:33:55.840> back<01:33:55.920> into<01:33:56.239> three<01:33:56.400> states.

01:33:57.040 --> 01:34:03.360
To<01:33:57.313> figure<01:33:57.585> out<01:33:57.858> what<01:33:58.131> the<01:33:58.404> transitions<01:33:58.676> are<01:33:58.949> on<01:33:59.222> the<01:33:59.495> three<01:33:59.767> states,<01:34:00.040> you<01:34:00.313> have<01:34:00.585> to<01:34:00.858> look<01:34:01.131> at<01:34:01.404> all<01:34:01.676> possible<01:34:01.949> transitions<01:34:02.222> and<01:34:02.495> then<01:34:02.767> coming<01:34:03.040> back.

01:34:03.360 --> 01:34:08.080
So<01:34:03.920> conceptually<01:34:04.400> it's<01:34:04.639> a<01:34:04.800> little<01:34:04.960> bit<01:34:05.120> difficult<01:34:05.520> but<01:34:05.760> it<01:34:05.920> turns<01:34:06.159> out<01:34:06.239> that<01:34:06.480> there's<01:34:06.719> a<01:34:06.800> formula<01:34:07.120> and<01:34:07.280> you<01:34:07.360> can<01:34:07.520> write<01:34:07.600> it<01:34:07.760> down.

01:34:08.080 --> 01:34:16.400
If<01:34:08.239> you<01:34:08.400> give<01:34:08.639> me<01:34:09.679> an<01:34:10.000> ergodic<01:34:10.480> matrix,<01:34:11.280> ergodic<01:34:12.000> Markov<01:34:12.480> chain,<01:34:12.800> and<01:34:13.040> then<01:34:13.120> you<01:34:13.280> say<01:34:14.239> only<01:34:14.480> look<01:34:14.639> at<01:34:14.719> these<01:34:14.960> three<01:34:15.120> states,<01:34:15.440> then<01:34:15.600> you<01:34:15.840> do<01:34:15.920> this<01:34:16.159> trace

01:34:16.400 --> 01:34:21.679
operation<01:34:16.719> to<01:34:16.960> give<01:34:17.040> you<01:34:17.199> the<01:34:17.360> the<01:34:17.520> the<01:34:18.560> trace<01:34:18.960> matrix<01:34:19.600> and<01:34:19.760> it'll<01:34:20.000> be<01:34:20.159> another<01:34:20.400> Markov<01:34:20.800> chain.

01:34:21.679 --> 01:34:28.239
So<01:34:21.760> so<01:34:22.159> that's<01:34:22.480> been<01:34:22.639> known.<01:34:22.960> So<01:34:23.199> for<01:34:23.360> any<01:34:23.600> Markov<01:34:24.080> matrix<01:34:24.400> you<01:34:24.560> can<01:34:24.639> take<01:34:24.800> any<01:34:25.040> subset<01:34:25.280> of<01:34:25.520> its<01:34:25.600> states<01:34:25.840> and<01:34:26.080> take<01:34:26.159> the<01:34:26.320> trace<01:34:26.639> on<01:34:26.800> the<01:34:26.960> that<01:34:27.199> subset<01:34:27.679> and<01:34:27.840> you<01:34:28.000> will

01:34:28.239 --> 01:34:30.880
get<01:34:28.639> a<01:34:28.960> new<01:34:29.280> Markov<01:34:29.760> matrix.

01:34:30.880 --> 01:34:39.280
What<01:34:31.120> I<01:34:31.280> discovered<01:34:32.000> two<01:34:32.239> years<01:34:32.400> ago<01:34:33.360> was,<01:34:34.239> and<01:34:34.560> it<01:34:34.719> apparently<01:34:35.040> hadn't<01:34:35.360> been<01:34:35.440> discovered<01:34:35.760> before,<01:34:36.000> was<01:34:36.239> that<01:34:36.400> this<01:34:36.560> gives<01:34:36.800> me<01:34:37.600> gives<01:34:38.159> mathematics<01:34:38.960> a

01:34:39.280 --> 01:34:44.080
logic<01:34:39.679> on<01:34:39.840> the<01:34:40.000> set<01:34:40.159> of<01:34:40.320> all<01:34:40.480> Markov<01:34:40.880> chains<01:34:42.400> and<01:34:42.560> a<01:34:42.719> logic<01:34:42.960> in<01:34:43.120> the<01:34:43.280> following<01:34:43.520> sense.

01:34:44.080 --> 01:34:51.760
In<01:34:44.320> logic<01:34:44.639> you<01:34:44.800> can<01:34:44.880> talk<01:34:45.040> about<01:34:45.840> um<01:34:46.000> and<01:34:46.400> and<01:34:46.639> or<01:34:47.120> and<01:34:47.280> and<01:34:47.840> implication<01:34:48.560> and<01:34:48.800> and<01:34:49.120> negation<01:34:49.600> and<01:34:49.840> so<01:34:50.000> forth,<01:34:50.400> right?

01:34:51.760 --> 01:34:54.320
So

01:34:54.320 --> 01:35:01.360
one<01:34:55.360> Markov<01:34:55.920> matrix<01:34:56.880> implies<01:34:57.520> another<01:34:58.800> if<01:34:59.040> it's<01:34:59.199> the<01:34:59.360> trace<01:34:59.600> of<01:34:59.760> the<01:34:59.920> other.

01:35:01.360 --> 01:35:05.920
Okay.<01:35:02.960> And<01:35:03.199> that's<01:35:03.440> all<01:35:03.600> you<01:35:03.840> need,<01:35:04.320> that<01:35:04.639> one<01:35:05.280> definition.

01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:12.719
So<01:35:06.159> I<01:35:06.400> just<01:35:06.560> say<01:35:06.719> that<01:35:07.040> you<01:35:07.199> know<01:35:08.480> one<01:35:08.800> matrix<01:35:09.280> entails<01:35:09.840> another<01:35:10.080> or<01:35:10.480> implies<01:35:10.960> another<01:35:11.360> if<01:35:11.600> it's<01:35:11.679> a<01:35:11.840> trace<01:35:12.080> of<01:35:12.239> the<01:35:12.400> other.

01:35:12.719 --> 01:35:14.719
That's<01:35:12.960> the<01:35:13.120> only<01:35:13.360> definition<01:35:13.920> definition<01:35:14.239> I<01:35:14.480> make.

01:35:14.719 --> 01:35:21.440
The<01:35:14.880> trace<01:35:15.040> is<01:35:15.280> well<01:35:15.440> defined<01:35:16.000> but<01:35:16.159> I<01:35:16.320> just<01:35:16.480> say<01:35:16.639> that's<01:35:16.880> my<01:35:17.280> and<01:35:17.440> as<01:35:17.600> soon<01:35:17.679> as<01:35:17.760> you<01:35:17.840> write<01:35:18.080> down<01:35:18.320> that<01:35:18.480> is<01:35:18.639> the<01:35:18.800> implication<01:35:19.199> then<01:35:19.440> the<01:35:19.520> notion<01:35:19.760> of<01:35:19.920> and<01:35:20.159> and<01:35:20.320> or<01:35:20.960> negation

01:35:21.440 --> 01:35:28.880
falls<01:35:21.679> out<01:35:22.000> completely<01:35:22.480> as<01:35:22.800> theorems<01:35:24.000> and<01:35:24.159> you<01:35:24.320> can<01:35:24.480> see<01:35:24.560> what<01:35:24.719> the<01:35:24.880> logic<01:35:25.120> is<01:35:25.360> that<01:35:25.600> comes<01:35:25.760> out<01:35:25.840> of<01:35:26.000> it<01:35:26.480> and<01:35:26.719> it's<01:35:26.960> not<01:35:27.120> a<01:35:27.280> Boolean<01:35:27.679> logic.

01:35:28.880 --> 01:35:31.760
It's<01:35:29.040> a<01:35:29.199> non-Boolean<01:35:29.920> logic<01:35:30.480> but<01:35:30.719> it's<01:35:30.960> locally<01:35:31.360> Boolean.

01:35:31.760 --> 01:35:38.320
If<01:35:31.920> I<01:35:32.080> take<01:35:32.239> any<01:35:32.639> particular<01:35:33.120> matrix<01:35:33.840> and<01:35:34.080> I<01:35:34.320> look<01:35:34.480> at<01:35:34.639> all<01:35:34.960> of<01:35:35.120> the<01:35:35.280> traces<01:35:35.679> so<01:35:35.840> it<01:35:36.080> could<01:35:36.159> be<01:35:36.239> a<01:35:36.400> trillion<01:35:36.639> by<01:35:36.960> trillion<01:35:37.199> matrix<01:35:37.600> for<01:35:37.679> example.

01:35:38.320 --> 01:35:42.480
So<01:35:38.480> there's<01:35:38.719> lots<01:35:38.960> of<01:35:39.520> trace<01:35:40.000> lots<01:35:40.320> of<01:35:40.480> trace<01:35:40.800> chains<01:35:41.199> underneath<01:35:41.520> it.

01:35:42.480 --> 01:35:45.840
And<01:35:42.800> all<01:35:43.120> if<01:35:43.360> you<01:35:43.520> just<01:35:43.679> look<01:35:43.840> at<01:35:43.920> those<01:35:44.239> they<01:35:44.400> form<01:35:44.639> a<01:35:44.800> Boolean<01:35:45.199> logic.

01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:54.320
So<01:35:46.000> it's<01:35:46.239> a<01:35:46.400> clean<01:35:46.560> Boolean<01:35:46.960> logic<01:35:47.280> by<01:35:47.520> this<01:35:47.760> this<01:35:48.320> implication<01:35:48.880> that<01:35:49.199> the<01:35:49.360> trace<01:35:49.760> implies<01:35:50.800> the<01:35:51.040> the<01:35:51.360> one<01:35:51.520> that<01:35:51.679> it<01:35:51.760> was<01:35:51.840> traced<01:35:52.159> from.

01:35:54.320 --> 01:35:58.480
But<01:35:54.560> but<01:35:56.239> between<01:35:56.560> Boolean<01:35:56.960> logics<01:35:57.280> you<01:35:57.440> have<01:35:57.520> this<01:35:57.679> incompatibility.

01:35:58.480 --> 01:36:06.800
So<01:35:58.639> this<01:35:58.880> gives<01:35:59.040> you<01:35:59.280> by<01:35:59.440> the<01:35:59.520> way<01:36:00.480> a<01:36:00.719> theory<01:36:01.120> about<01:36:01.360> how<01:36:01.600> to<01:36:01.760> combine<01:36:02.239> observers<01:36:04.080> because<01:36:04.400> if<01:36:04.719> two<01:36:06.080> you<01:36:06.320> can<01:36:06.400> take<01:36:06.639> the

01:36:06.800 --> 01:36:09.520
or<01:36:07.360> of<01:36:07.520> two<01:36:07.760> observers<01:36:08.159> if<01:36:08.400> they're<01:36:08.560> compatible.

01:36:09.520 --> 01:36:17.280
So<01:36:09.760> they<01:36:09.920> they<01:36:10.239> can<01:36:10.320> combine<01:36:10.719> and<01:36:10.960> we<01:36:11.280> have<01:36:11.440> a<01:36:11.600> formula<01:36:12.000> for<01:36:12.480> taking<01:36:12.800> the<01:36:12.960> or<01:36:13.840> and<01:36:14.000> and<01:36:14.159> you<01:36:14.400> can<01:36:14.480> also<01:36:14.719> take<01:36:14.960> the<01:36:15.120> the<01:36:15.520> meet<01:36:16.000> the<01:36:16.159> the<01:36:16.480> and.

01:36:17.280 --> 01:36:25.520
So<01:36:17.594> sometimes<01:36:17.908> in<01:36:18.222> in<01:36:18.535> the<01:36:18.849> mathematics<01:36:19.163> we'll<01:36:19.477> talk<01:36:19.791> about<01:36:20.105> the<01:36:20.418> or<01:36:20.732> or<01:36:21.046> or<01:36:21.360> the<01:36:21.674> join<01:36:21.988> and<01:36:22.302> we'll<01:36:22.615> talk<01:36:22.929> about<01:36:23.243> the<01:36:23.557> and<01:36:23.871> or<01:36:24.185> the<01:36:24.498> meet<01:36:24.812> that<01:36:25.126> they're<01:36:25.440> the

01:36:25.520 --> 01:36:32.960
same<01:36:25.679> thing.<01:36:25.840> So<01:36:25.920> we<01:36:26.080> can<01:36:26.159> take<01:36:26.239> the<01:36:26.400> meet<01:36:26.560> and<01:36:26.719> the<01:36:26.800> join.<01:36:27.120> So<01:36:27.280> this<01:36:27.440> gives<01:36:27.679> us<01:36:28.320> now<01:36:28.560> a<01:36:28.880> a<01:36:29.199> logic<01:36:29.520> for<01:36:29.760> science<01:36:30.159> because<01:36:30.639> these<01:36:30.960> are<01:36:31.040> now<01:36:31.280> observers<01:36:32.080> and<01:36:32.320> we<01:36:32.480> can<01:36:32.560> ask<01:36:32.800> when

01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:38.800
can<01:36:33.199> observers<01:36:33.679> share<01:36:33.920> data.<01:36:34.480> Well,<01:36:34.719> they<01:36:34.880> can<01:36:34.960> share<01:36:35.120> data<01:36:35.360> if<01:36:35.520> they're<01:36:35.679> in<01:36:35.840> a<01:36:36.000> Boolean<01:36:36.480> sublogic<01:36:37.120> together<01:36:37.760> because<01:36:38.000> then<01:36:38.159> they<01:36:38.320> have<01:36:38.400> a<01:36:38.480> meet.

01:36:38.800 --> 01:36:43.520
They<01:36:38.960> have<01:36:39.040> meets<01:36:39.280> and<01:36:39.440> joins.<01:36:40.480> So,<01:36:40.719> we<01:36:40.880> can<01:36:41.040> actually<01:36:41.280> share<01:36:41.600> data<01:36:42.000> and<01:36:42.239> so<01:36:42.400> we<01:36:42.560> actually<01:36:42.800> have<01:36:42.880> this<01:36:43.120> frame.

01:36:43.520 --> 01:36:50.880
But,<01:36:43.679> but<01:36:44.960> a<01:36:45.119> Boolean<01:36:45.520> sublogic<01:36:46.320> is<01:36:46.560> a<01:36:46.800> perspective<01:36:47.280> on<01:36:47.600> reality,<01:36:48.159> but<01:36:48.400> then<01:36:48.560> there<01:36:48.719> are<01:36:48.800> other<01:36:48.960> Boolean<01:36:49.360> sublogics<01:36:49.920> that<01:36:50.080> are<01:36:50.239> different<01:36:50.400> perspectives.

01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:56.560
And<01:36:51.040> so,<01:36:51.119> you<01:36:51.280> can<01:36:51.440> have<01:36:51.600> different<01:36:51.760> sciences,<01:36:52.719> an<01:36:52.960> infinite<01:36:53.360> number<01:36:53.520> of<01:36:53.679> different<01:36:54.080> there's<01:36:54.239> an<01:36:54.320> infinite<01:36:54.639> number<01:36:54.800> of<01:36:54.880> these<01:36:55.040> Boolean<01:36:55.440> sublogics.

01:36:56.560 --> 01:37:07.280
Infinite<01:36:56.960> infinite<01:36:57.440> number.<01:36:58.239> So,<01:36:58.639> so<01:36:58.800> it<01:36:59.040> gives<01:36:59.199> us<01:36:59.440> this<01:37:00.080> this<01:37:00.639> incredible<01:37:02.639> new<01:37:02.960> way<01:37:03.360> and<01:37:03.520> and<01:37:04.159> the<01:37:04.639> trace

01:37:07.280 --> 01:37:14.239
relationship,<01:37:08.560> this<01:37:08.800> trace<01:37:09.199> logic<01:37:09.920> is<01:37:10.239> the<01:37:10.480> logic<01:37:11.199> of<01:37:11.520> zero<01:37:12.080> surprise.

01:37:14.239 --> 01:37:16.800
And<01:37:14.480> it's<01:37:14.719> it's<01:37:15.280> it<01:37:15.440> is<01:37:15.600> the<01:37:15.760> logic<01:37:16.000> of<01:37:16.159> no<01:37:16.400> surprise.

01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:25.199
So,<01:37:16.960> it's<01:37:17.119> not<01:37:17.199> just<01:37:17.520> we're<01:37:17.840> not<01:37:18.000> trying<01:37:18.159> to<01:37:18.719> gradient<01:37:19.199> descent<01:37:19.600> on<01:37:19.840> free<01:37:20.080> energy<01:37:20.800> to<01:37:21.280> to<01:37:21.679> try<01:37:21.840> to<01:37:22.000> minimize<01:37:22.480> surprise<01:37:23.360> with<01:37:23.600> the<01:37:23.760> trace<01:37:24.320> operation,<01:37:24.960> the

01:37:25.199 --> 01:37:28.800
trace<01:37:26.000> equation.<01:37:26.800> We<01:37:27.040> compute<01:37:27.360> it<01:37:27.600> exactly<01:37:28.159> each<01:37:28.480> time.

01:37:28.800 --> 01:37:34.000
It's<01:37:29.119> an<01:37:29.360> exact<01:37:30.239> zero<01:37:30.639> surprise<01:37:31.119> because<01:37:31.360> if<01:37:31.520> you<01:37:31.600> think<01:37:31.760> about<01:37:31.840> it,<01:37:32.080> it's<01:37:32.239> zero<01:37:32.480> surprise<01:37:32.719> in<01:37:32.880> the<01:37:32.960> following<01:37:33.280> sense.

01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:39.040
If<01:37:34.371> I<01:37:34.742> have<01:37:35.113> if<01:37:35.484> this<01:37:35.855> bigger<01:37:36.225> matrix<01:37:36.596> the<01:37:36.967> 10x10<01:37:37.338> is<01:37:37.709> the<01:37:38.080> reality.

01:37:39.040 --> 01:37:45.679
Mhm.<01:37:39.520> The<01:37:39.760> trace<01:37:40.000> on<01:37:40.159> the<01:37:40.320> 3x3<01:37:41.360> is<01:37:41.840> exactly<01:37:42.480> the<01:37:42.800> transition<01:37:43.280> probabilities<01:37:43.760> that<01:37:43.920> you<01:37:44.080> will<01:37:44.239> see<01:37:44.560> in<01:37:44.800> that<01:37:44.960> environment.

01:37:45.679 --> 01:37:48.320
Not<01:37:45.920> not<01:37:46.080> approximately<01:37:46.800> exactly<01:37:47.199> what<01:37:47.440> you<01:37:47.600> will<01:37:47.679> see.

01:37:48.320 --> 01:37:51.679
Exactly.<01:37:50.080> Um<01:37:50.400> so<01:37:50.639> it's<01:37:50.880> zero<01:37:51.280> surprise.

01:37:51.679 --> 01:37:56.159
But<01:37:51.760> there's<01:37:52.000> another<01:37:52.159> sense<01:37:52.400> in<01:37:52.560> which<01:37:52.719> it's<01:37:52.880> zero<01:37:53.119> surprise.

01:37:56.159 --> 01:38:04.560
each<01:37:56.659> if<01:37:57.159> it's<01:37:57.659> an<01:37:58.159> ergodic<01:37:58.659> Markov<01:37:59.159> matrix<01:37:59.659> you<01:38:00.159> can<01:38:00.659> ask<01:38:01.159> long-term<01:38:01.659> how<01:38:02.159> often<01:38:02.659> is<01:38:03.159> the<01:38:03.659> whole<01:38:04.159> dynamics

01:38:04.560 --> 01:38:12.400
in<01:38:04.800> state<01:38:05.040> one<01:38:05.440> outcome<01:38:05.840> one<01:38:06.480> how<01:38:06.800> much<01:38:07.040> time<01:38:07.199> do<01:38:07.360> you<01:38:07.440> spend<01:38:07.600> in<01:38:07.760> outcome<01:38:08.080> two<01:38:08.400> outcome<01:38:08.800> three<01:38:09.040> and<01:38:09.199> so<01:38:09.360> forth<01:38:09.760> and<01:38:10.000> you<01:38:10.080> can<01:38:10.239> write<01:38:10.320> down<01:38:10.480> a<01:38:10.719> probability<01:38:11.199> measure<01:38:12.080> right

01:38:12.400 --> 01:38:20.639
and<01:38:12.560> so<01:38:12.880> so<01:38:13.119> for<01:38:13.520> ergodic<01:38:14.000> m<01:38:14.719> ergodic<01:38:15.119> means<01:38:15.280> this<01:38:15.440> sort<01:38:15.600> of<01:38:15.679> it's<01:38:15.920> a<01:38:16.000> nice<01:38:16.159> matrix<01:38:16.639> everything<01:38:16.960> connects<01:38:17.199> with<01:38:17.440> everything<01:38:17.760> and<01:38:17.920> and<01:38:18.000> and<01:38:18.400> has<01:38:18.639> nice<01:38:18.880> properties<01:38:19.840> um<01:38:20.239> for

01:38:20.639 --> 01:38:28.960
ergodic<01:38:21.119> matrices<01:38:21.920> you<01:38:22.159> have<01:38:22.480> a<01:38:22.800> probability<01:38:23.280> measure<01:38:23.520> which<01:38:23.760> is<01:38:23.840> called<01:38:24.000> the<01:38:24.159> stationary<01:38:24.639> measure<01:38:25.040> it's<01:38:25.280> It's<01:38:25.679> it's<01:38:26.320> when<01:38:26.560> you<01:38:26.719> act<01:38:26.960> on<01:38:27.119> that<01:38:27.280> measure<01:38:27.840> by<01:38:28.719> the

01:38:28.960 --> 01:38:31.920
matrix,<01:38:29.440> the<01:38:29.679> measure<01:38:30.000> itself<01:38:30.800> remains<01:38:31.199> unchanged.

01:38:31.920 --> 01:38:38.080
So<01:38:32.080> it's<01:38:32.239> called<01:38:32.320> the<01:38:32.560> stationary<01:38:32.960> measure.<01:38:33.440> And<01:38:33.600> it<01:38:33.760> really<01:38:33.920> is<01:38:34.159> telling<01:38:34.400> you<01:38:34.719> the<01:38:35.040> long-term<01:38:35.600> probability<01:38:36.159> of<01:38:36.400> being<01:38:36.560> in<01:38:36.800> each<01:38:36.960> of<01:38:37.119> those<01:38:37.280> out<01:38:37.520> of<01:38:37.679> getting<01:38:37.920> those

01:38:38.080 --> 01:38:45.920
outcomes.<01:38:39.760> So<01:38:39.920> it<01:38:40.239> turns<01:38:40.400> out<01:38:40.880> so<01:38:41.040> it's<01:38:41.280> minimum<01:38:41.600> surprise<01:38:42.080> logic<01:38:42.320> in<01:38:42.480> the<01:38:42.639> following<01:38:42.880> sense<01:38:43.199> as<01:38:43.440> well.

01:38:45.920 --> 01:38:51.679
It<01:38:46.255> turns<01:38:46.590> out<01:38:46.925> that<01:38:47.260> probability<01:38:47.595> measures<01:38:47.930> also<01:38:48.265> have<01:38:48.600> a<01:38:48.935> logic<01:38:49.270> and<01:38:49.605> this<01:38:49.940> is<01:38:50.275> not<01:38:50.610> well<01:38:50.945> known,<01:38:51.280> right?

01:38:51.679 --> 01:38:59.920
You<01:38:51.920> you<01:38:52.159> can<01:38:52.239> ask<01:38:52.400> the<01:38:52.639> question<01:38:53.760> um<01:38:54.000> probability<01:38:54.560> measures<01:38:55.440> are<01:38:57.199> statements<01:38:57.760> about<01:38:59.199> propos<01:38:59.679> they're

01:38:59.920 --> 01:39:03.280
propositional<01:39:00.400> statements.<01:39:00.719> I<01:39:00.880> mean<01:39:01.040> the<01:39:01.199> probability<01:39:01.520> of<01:39:01.679> this<01:39:01.840> outcome<01:39:02.080> is<01:39:02.159> such<01:39:02.320> and<01:39:02.480> such<01:39:02.719> probability.

01:39:03.280 --> 01:39:09.119
So<01:39:03.440> it<01:39:03.600> it's<01:39:03.920> literally<01:39:04.320> a<01:39:04.560> proposition.<01:39:05.679> So<01:39:05.920> there<01:39:06.159> you<01:39:06.239> know<01:39:06.400> propositions<01:39:07.360> are<01:39:07.600> truth<01:39:08.000> valued<01:39:08.480> statements.

01:39:09.119 --> 01:39:11.520
There<01:39:09.280> should<01:39:09.440> be<01:39:09.520> a<01:39:09.679> logic.<01:39:10.480> What<01:39:10.639> is<01:39:10.800> it?

01:39:11.520 --> 01:39:18.800
I<01:39:11.760> actually<01:39:12.000> asked<01:39:12.239> that<01:39:12.560> question<01:39:12.880> back<01:39:13.119> in<01:39:13.360> 1992<01:39:14.080> because<01:39:14.320> I<01:39:14.480> was<01:39:14.639> working<01:39:14.800> on<01:39:15.440> Bayesian<01:39:16.000> models<01:39:16.239> of<01:39:16.480> perception<01:39:16.960> and<01:39:17.600> they<01:39:17.920> were<01:39:18.159> probabilistic.

01:39:18.800 --> 01:39:24.480
And<01:39:18.960> so<01:39:19.119> I<01:39:19.280> went<01:39:19.360> to<01:39:19.520> some<01:39:19.679> mathematicians<01:39:20.239> and<01:39:20.400> said,<01:39:20.560> you<01:39:20.639> know,<01:39:21.199> okay,<01:39:21.679> so<01:39:22.480> we're<01:39:22.719> using<01:39:22.960> probability<01:39:23.440> measures.

01:39:24.480 --> 01:39:28.800
Um,<01:39:24.800> they're<01:39:25.040> propositions.<01:39:26.080> What's<01:39:26.320> the<01:39:26.719> what's<01:39:26.960> the<01:39:27.119> mathematical<01:39:27.600> logic<01:39:27.840> of<01:39:28.000> probability<01:39:28.400> measures?

01:39:28.800 --> 01:39:35.440
There's<01:39:29.040> got<01:39:29.119> to<01:39:29.199> be<01:39:29.280> a<01:39:29.440> logic.<01:39:30.159> And<01:39:30.960> they<01:39:31.280> looked<01:39:31.520> and<01:39:31.760> all<01:39:31.920> the<01:39:32.239> all<01:39:32.480> the<01:39:32.639> lo<01:39:33.119> all<01:39:33.360> the<01:39:33.520> logic<01:39:33.760> they<01:39:34.000> came<01:39:34.080> back<01:39:34.239> to<01:39:34.400> me<01:39:34.480> with<01:39:34.719> were<01:39:34.880> trivial.

01:39:35.440 --> 01:39:38.480
They<01:39:35.600> were<01:39:35.679> they<01:39:35.920> were<01:39:36.080> not<01:39:36.719> substantial<01:39:37.280> logics<01:39:37.679> at<01:39:37.920> all.

01:39:38.480 --> 01:39:44.400
And<01:39:38.639> so<01:39:38.719> I<01:39:38.960> worked<01:39:39.119> with<01:39:39.280> some<01:39:39.440> mathematicians<01:39:40.080> and<01:39:40.400> I<01:39:40.560> discovered<01:39:41.760> um<01:39:42.239> a<01:39:42.480> logic<01:39:42.800> on<01:39:43.040> probability<01:39:43.600> measures.

01:39:44.400 --> 01:39:53.040
I<01:39:44.560> call<01:39:44.719> it<01:39:45.040> I<01:39:45.280> named<01:39:45.440> it<01:39:45.520> the<01:39:45.679> Lebesgue<01:39:46.080> logic<01:39:46.719> because<01:39:46.960> of<01:39:48.000> it<01:39:48.239> uses<01:39:48.480> the<01:39:48.639> Lebesgue<01:39:49.040> decomposition<01:39:49.520> theorem<01:39:49.920> but<01:39:50.159> basically<01:39:50.639> one<01:39:50.960> probability<01:39:51.520> measure<01:39:52.480> entails

01:39:53.040 --> 01:39:56.719
another<01:39:54.480> if<01:39:54.719> it's<01:39:54.880> a<01:39:55.040> normalized<01:39:55.600> restriction<01:39:56.000> of<01:39:56.159> the<01:39:56.320> other.

01:39:56.719 --> 01:40:04.400
So<01:39:57.002> if<01:39:57.285> I<01:39:57.568> take<01:39:57.851> take<01:39:58.135> the<01:39:58.418> bigger<01:39:58.701> probability<01:39:58.984> measure<01:39:59.267> look<01:39:59.550> at<01:39:59.833> a<01:40:00.116> subset<01:40:00.400> of<01:40:00.683> states<01:40:00.966> um<01:40:01.249> rest<01:40:01.532> and<01:40:01.815> then<01:40:02.098> take<01:40:02.381> a<01:40:02.664> normalized<01:40:02.948> restriction<01:40:03.231> just<01:40:03.514> of<01:40:03.797> the<01:40:04.080> probability

01:40:04.400 --> 01:40:13.119
measure<01:40:04.560> on<01:40:04.719> that<01:40:04.800> subset<01:40:05.119> of<01:40:05.199> states<01:40:05.600> that<01:40:05.760> will<01:40:06.080> that<01:40:06.320> is<01:40:06.560> the<01:40:07.280> exact<01:40:07.600> probability<01:40:08.000> measure<01:40:08.239> I<01:40:08.480> get<01:40:08.560> on<01:40:08.719> the<01:40:08.960> the<01:40:09.679> smaller<01:40:10.239> set<01:40:11.119> in<01:40:11.280> that<01:40:11.440> case<01:40:11.679> it's<01:40:11.920> the<01:40:12.800> so

01:40:13.119 --> 01:40:21.119
in<01:40:13.280> that<01:40:13.440> case<01:40:14.000> the<01:40:14.320> smaller<01:40:15.840> probability<01:40:16.320> measure<01:40:16.560> entails<01:40:17.040> the<01:40:17.199> bigger<01:40:17.440> one<01:40:17.600> if<01:40:17.760> it's<01:40:17.920> a<01:40:18.080> normalized<01:40:18.480> restriction<01:40:18.800> of<01:40:18.960> the<01:40:19.119> bigger<01:40:19.280> one<01:40:20.159> so<01:40:20.320> I<01:40:20.560> just<01:40:20.639> take<01:40:20.800> the<01:40:20.880> bigger

01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:28.080
one<01:40:21.520> restrict<01:40:22.080> just<01:40:22.320> only<01:40:22.560> look<01:40:22.719> at<01:40:22.880> those<01:40:23.119> states<01:40:24.000> renormalize<01:40:24.639> it<01:40:24.880> on<01:40:25.119> those<01:40:25.280> states<01:40:25.520> and<01:40:25.760> I<01:40:25.920> and<01:40:26.239> And<01:40:26.320> if<01:40:26.400> it's<01:40:26.560> the<01:40:26.719> probability<01:40:27.040> measure<01:40:27.280> on<01:40:27.440> the<01:40:27.600> smaller<01:40:27.840> one,

01:40:28.080 --> 01:40:31.199
then<01:40:28.480> then<01:40:29.199> the<01:40:29.360> the<01:40:29.600> smaller<01:40:29.920> one<01:40:30.000> entails<01:40:30.400> the<01:40:30.560> bigger<01:40:30.719> one.

01:40:31.199 --> 01:40:32.960
And<01:40:31.440> that's<01:40:31.840> the<01:40:32.080> only<01:40:32.239> definition<01:40:32.480> I<01:40:32.719> needed.

01:40:32.960 --> 01:40:35.600
And<01:40:33.119> we<01:40:33.199> get<01:40:33.360> an<01:40:33.520> entire<01:40:33.840> logic<01:40:34.159> on<01:40:34.320> this.<01:40:34.560> And<01:40:34.719> we<01:40:34.880> published<01:40:35.199> it.

01:40:35.600 --> 01:40:39.600
There's<01:40:35.760> a<01:40:35.920> paper<01:40:36.080> called<01:40:36.400> Lebesgue<01:40:36.880> logic<01:40:37.520> um<01:40:37.920> published<01:40:38.159> in<01:40:38.400> 1993.

01:40:39.600 --> 01:40:41.600
And<01:40:39.840> it<01:40:40.239> hardly<01:40:40.560> anybody<01:40:40.960> knows<01:40:41.119> about<01:40:41.280> it.

01:40:41.600 --> 01:40:46.800
It's<01:40:41.679> it's<01:40:41.920> it's<01:40:42.719> but<01:40:43.040> it<01:40:43.280> is<01:40:43.520> the<01:40:43.840> logic<01:40:44.159> of<01:40:44.320> probabilities<01:40:44.880> that<01:40:44.960> that<01:40:45.280> is<01:40:45.440> the<01:40:45.600> right<01:40:45.760> logic<01:40:46.000> of<01:40:46.159> probabilities.

01:40:46.800 --> 01:40:50.960
And<01:40:47.040> it<01:40:47.199> turns<01:40:47.440> out<01:40:47.840> that<01:40:48.080> when<01:40:48.239> you<01:40:48.480> take<01:40:49.040> this<01:40:49.280> is<01:40:50.400> amazing.

01:40:50.960 --> 01:40:59.199
When<01:40:51.199> you<01:40:51.280> look<01:40:51.440> at<01:40:51.520> this<01:40:51.840> trace<01:40:52.239> logic,<01:40:52.639> so<01:40:52.719> the<01:40:52.960> trace<01:40:53.199> logic<01:40:53.440> on<01:40:53.679> Markov<01:40:54.159> chains<01:40:55.360> and<01:40:55.679> you<01:40:55.840> look<01:40:56.000> at<01:40:56.239> the<01:40:57.600> stationary<01:40:58.159> measures<01:40:58.960> of

01:40:59.199 --> 01:41:08.400
all<01:40:59.440> the<01:40:59.679> of<01:40:59.840> the<01:41:00.000> Markov<01:41:00.480> chains,<01:41:01.520> the<01:41:01.840> mapping<01:41:02.719> from<01:41:05.040> the<01:41:06.159> the<01:41:06.480> function<01:41:06.800> that<01:41:07.040> maps<01:41:07.840> Markov

01:41:08.400 --> 01:41:16.719
chains<01:41:09.840> to<01:41:10.320> their<01:41:10.880> probability<01:41:11.440> measures<01:41:13.600> is<01:41:13.840> a<01:41:14.080> homomorphism<01:41:15.119> of<01:41:15.360> the<01:41:15.600> trace<01:41:15.920> logic<01:41:16.239> onto<01:41:16.560> the

01:41:16.719 --> 01:41:25.119
Lebesgue<01:41:17.119> logic.<01:41:17.760> In<01:41:17.920> other<01:41:18.159> words,<01:41:18.880> the<01:41:20.000> the<01:41:20.400> logic<01:41:20.800> of<01:41:20.960> observation,<01:41:21.440> the<01:41:21.600> trace<01:41:21.920> logic<01:41:22.639> and<01:41:22.800> the<01:41:23.040> logic<01:41:23.360> of<01:41:23.440> of<01:41:23.840> probabilities,<01:41:24.880> the

01:41:25.119 --> 01:41:28.639
Lebesgue<01:41:25.679> logic<01:41:26.320> mesh<01:41:26.800> perfectly.

01:41:28.639 --> 01:41:32.480
Observation<01:41:29.119> logic<01:41:29.679> and<01:41:30.480> observation<01:41:31.119> outcome<01:41:31.760> logic.

01:41:32.480 --> 01:41:35.360
You<01:41:32.719> the<01:41:32.880> the<01:41:33.199> results<01:41:33.600> logic<01:41:34.239> mesh<01:41:34.719> perfectly<01:41:35.119> there.

01:41:35.360 --> 01:41:42.880
That's<01:41:35.520> what<01:41:35.679> we<01:41:35.840> mean<01:41:35.920> by<01:41:36.159> logic<01:41:36.480> homomorphism.<01:41:37.199> So<01:41:37.360> that<01:41:37.520> was<01:41:37.600> a<01:41:37.760> stunning<01:41:38.400> the<01:41:38.560> work<01:41:38.719> that<01:41:38.880> I<01:41:39.040> did<01:41:39.679> 1993<01:41:40.560> and<01:41:40.800> then<01:41:40.880> the<01:41:41.040> work<01:41:41.119> I've<01:41:41.360> done<01:41:41.600> just<01:41:41.760> in<01:41:41.840> the<01:41:41.920> last<01:41:42.080> two<01:41:42.320> years.

01:41:42.880 --> 01:41:45.440
I<01:41:43.040> was<01:41:43.199> stunned<01:41:43.520> first<01:41:43.679> to<01:41:43.840> realize<01:41:44.080> that<01:41:44.239> there<01:41:44.400> was<01:41:44.480> a<01:41:44.639> trace<01:41:44.960> logic.

01:41:45.440 --> 01:41:51.360
You<01:41:45.679> mean<01:41:45.840> when<01:41:46.080> I<01:41:46.239> when<01:41:46.480> I<01:41:46.639> told<01:41:46.800> my<01:41:46.960> mathematician<01:41:47.520> friend<01:41:47.760> said,<01:41:47.920> "Look,<01:41:49.040> Jayton,<01:41:50.400> here's<01:41:50.639> the<01:41:50.880> definition.

01:41:51.360 --> 01:41:57.440
I<01:41:51.600> believe<01:41:52.159> this<01:41:52.400> one<01:41:52.560> definition<01:41:53.040> gives<01:41:53.280> us<01:41:53.840> an<01:41:54.080> entire<01:41:54.400> logic<01:41:54.639> on<01:41:54.800> the<01:41:54.960> space<01:41:55.119> of<01:41:55.199> all<01:41:55.360> Markov<01:41:55.760> chains<01:41:55.920> that<01:41:56.080> no<01:41:56.159> one's<01:41:56.400> ever<01:41:56.560> seen<01:41:56.719> before."

01:41:57.440 --> 01:42:00.960
And<01:41:57.679> his<01:41:58.239> response<01:41:58.560> was,<01:41:58.719> "Don,<01:41:59.280> that's<01:41:59.520> too<01:41:59.679> pretty<01:41:59.920> to<01:42:00.080> be<01:42:00.239> true."

01:42:00.960 --> 01:42:08.480
<01:42:01.187> But<01:42:01.414> then<01:42:01.641> he<01:42:01.868> proved<01:42:02.095> it<01:42:02.323> was<01:42:02.550> true.<01:42:02.777> <01:42:03.004> Wow.<01:42:03.231> <01:42:03.458> And<01:42:03.685> and<01:42:03.912> then<01:42:04.139> it<01:42:04.366> was<01:42:04.594> about<01:42:04.821> a<01:42:05.048> year<01:42:05.275> later<01:42:05.502> that<01:42:05.729> I<01:42:05.956> realized,<01:42:06.183> okay,<01:42:06.410> I'm<01:42:06.637> having<01:42:06.865> a<01:42:07.092> a<01:42:07.319> map<01:42:07.546> from<01:42:07.773> the<01:42:08.000> Markov

01:42:08.480 --> 01:42:14.800
chains<01:42:08.719> to<01:42:08.880> their<01:42:09.040> stationary<01:42:09.520> measures.<01:42:10.480> I<01:42:10.800> do<01:42:11.040> know<01:42:11.600> a<01:42:11.840> logic<01:42:12.320> on<01:42:12.719> stationary<01:42:13.199> measures,<01:42:13.520> namely<01:42:13.920> the<01:42:14.159> L-E-G<01:42:14.560> logic.

01:42:14.800 --> 01:42:18.400
That's<01:42:15.020> something<01:42:15.240> I<01:42:15.460> did<01:42:15.680> 30<01:42:15.900> years<01:42:16.120> ago.<01:42:16.340> <01:42:16.560> Mhm.

01:42:18.400 --> 01:42:21.520
<01:42:18.571> Would<01:42:18.743> it<01:42:18.914> actually<01:42:19.086> be<01:42:19.257> a<01:42:19.429> homomorphism?<01:42:19.600> And<01:42:19.771> it<01:42:19.943> turned<01:42:20.114> out<01:42:20.286> to<01:42:20.457> be<01:42:20.629> a<01:42:20.800> homomorphism.

01:42:21.520 --> 01:42:26.800
Then<01:42:21.756> I<01:42:21.992> fell<01:42:22.229> out<01:42:22.465> of<01:42:22.701> my<01:42:22.937> chair<01:42:23.173> because<01:42:23.410> was<01:42:23.646> sort<01:42:23.882> of<01:42:24.118> like,<01:42:24.354> okay,<01:42:24.590> <01:42:24.827> I'm<01:42:25.063> not<01:42:25.299> smart<01:42:25.535> enough<01:42:25.771> to<01:42:26.008> do<01:42:26.244> this<01:42:26.480> stuff.

01:42:26.800 --> 01:42:28.880
This<01:42:26.960> is<01:42:27.600> no<01:42:27.840> one<01:42:27.920> can<01:42:28.080> make<01:42:28.239> this<01:42:28.400> stuff<01:42:28.560> up.

01:42:28.880 --> 01:42:33.920
So,<01:42:29.280> so,<01:42:29.600> so<01:42:30.000> we<01:42:30.239> have<01:42:30.400> now<01:42:30.560> this<01:42:30.800> logic<01:42:31.119> on<01:42:31.280> observation,<01:42:32.000> a<01:42:32.239> logic<01:42:32.560> on<01:42:32.719> the<01:42:32.880> outcomes<01:42:33.199> of<01:42:33.360> observation.

01:42:33.920 --> 01:42:43.600
They<01:42:34.159> mesh<01:42:34.560> perfectly.<01:42:35.600> And<01:42:35.920> it's<01:42:36.320> zero<01:42:36.639> surprise<01:42:38.000> um<01:42:38.320> because<01:42:38.639> the<01:42:38.880> transitions<01:42:39.520> on<01:42:39.760> the<01:42:40.239> trace<01:42:40.719> are<01:42:40.960> exactly<01:42:41.360> the<01:42:41.520> right<01:42:41.679> transitions<01:42:42.480> and

01:42:43.600 --> 01:42:46.560
the<01:42:43.920> probability<01:42:44.400> measures<01:42:44.719> are<01:42:44.960> exactly<01:42:45.199> the<01:42:45.440> right<01:42:45.600> probability<01:42:46.080> measures.

01:42:46.560 --> 01:42:51.040
Zero<01:42:46.880> surprise<01:42:47.440> on<01:42:47.760> both.<01:42:48.719> So<01:42:48.880> it<01:42:49.199> is<01:42:49.360> the<01:42:49.600> logic<01:42:50.000> of<01:42:50.159> zero<01:42:50.560> surprise.

01:42:51.040 --> 01:42:58.159
And<01:42:51.385> so<01:42:51.731> I<01:42:52.076> think<01:42:52.421> it<01:42:52.766> will<01:42:53.112> be<01:42:53.457> a<01:42:53.802> promising<01:42:54.147> foundation<01:42:54.493> for<01:42:54.838> future<01:42:55.183> AI<01:42:55.528> architectures<01:42:55.874> because<01:42:56.219> that's<01:42:56.564> <01:42:56.909> that<01:42:57.255> is<01:42:57.600> amazing.

01:42:58.159 --> 01:43:02.639
<01:42:58.384> Yeah,<01:42:58.609> it<01:42:58.834> stunned<01:42:59.059> me.<01:42:59.284> That's<01:42:59.509> no<01:42:59.734> one's<01:42:59.960> smart<01:43:00.185> enough<01:43:00.410> to<01:43:00.635> you<01:43:00.860> know<01:43:01.085> figure<01:43:01.310> this<01:43:01.535> stuff<01:43:01.760> out.

01:43:02.639 --> 01:43:04.960
<01:43:02.869> I<01:43:03.099> just<01:43:03.329> stumbled<01:43:03.559> into<01:43:03.790> it.<01:43:04.020> <01:43:04.250> It's<01:43:04.480> crazy.

01:43:04.960 --> 01:43:13.040
Wow.<01:43:05.268> <01:43:05.575> Wow.<01:43:05.883> Um,<01:43:06.191> because<01:43:06.498> we<01:43:06.806> are<01:43:07.114> talking<01:43:07.422> so<01:43:07.729> much<01:43:08.037> about<01:43:08.345> math,<01:43:08.652> there<01:43:08.960> is<01:43:09.268> uh<01:43:09.575> there's<01:43:09.883> an<01:43:10.191> interesting<01:43:10.498> video<01:43:10.806> I<01:43:11.114> found<01:43:11.422> of<01:43:11.729> Sir<01:43:12.037> Roger<01:43:12.345> Penrose<01:43:12.652> a<01:43:12.960> few

01:43:13.040 --> 01:43:16.560
days<01:43:13.199> ago.<01:43:13.520> He<01:43:13.760> was<01:43:14.159> he<01:43:14.400> was<01:43:14.480> on<01:43:14.560> the<01:43:14.639> Joe<01:43:14.880> Rogan<01:43:15.280> podcast<01:43:15.679> some<01:43:15.840> time<01:43:16.000> back.

01:43:16.560 --> 01:43:21.440
I<01:43:16.719> just<01:43:16.880> want<01:43:16.960> to<01:43:17.040> pull<01:43:17.199> it<01:43:17.360> up<01:43:17.440> on<01:43:17.600> the<01:43:17.760> TV<01:43:18.000> and<01:43:18.239> I<01:43:18.400> would<01:43:18.560> love<01:43:18.639> to<01:43:18.719> see<01:43:18.880> your<01:43:19.119> reaction<01:43:19.360> on<01:43:19.520> it<01:43:19.679> and<01:43:19.840> if<01:43:20.000> you<01:43:20.080> can<01:43:20.239> also<01:43:20.480> explain<01:43:20.800> it.

01:43:21.440 --> 01:43:29.760
<01:43:21.848> Gödel's<01:43:22.256> theorem<01:43:22.664> which<01:43:23.072> seemed<01:43:23.480> to<01:43:23.888> say<01:43:24.296> that<01:43:24.704> there<01:43:25.112> were<01:43:25.520> things<01:43:25.928> in<01:43:26.336> mathematics<01:43:26.744> that<01:43:27.152> you<01:43:27.560> just<01:43:27.968> couldn't<01:43:28.376> prove<01:43:28.784> and<01:43:29.192> what<01:43:29.600> it

01:43:29.760 --> 01:43:34.000
says.<01:43:30.560> Suppose<01:43:30.880> you've<01:43:31.119> got<01:43:31.600> a<01:43:31.920> method<01:43:32.239> of<01:43:32.560> proving<01:43:32.960> things<01:43:33.199> in<01:43:33.360> mathematics.

01:43:34.000 --> 01:43:41.760
The<01:43:34.719> key<01:43:35.040> thing<01:43:35.199> about<01:43:35.440> these<01:43:35.760> methods<01:43:36.080> of<01:43:36.239> proof<01:43:37.119> is<01:43:37.440> that<01:43:38.320> you<01:43:38.560> can<01:43:38.719> have<01:43:38.800> a<01:43:39.040> computer<01:43:39.440> check<01:43:40.320> whether<01:43:40.639> you've<01:43:40.880> done<01:43:41.040> it<01:43:41.199> right.

01:43:41.760 --> 01:43:49.520
If<01:43:42.639> the<01:43:42.960> algorithm<01:43:43.520> says<01:43:44.320> yeah<01:43:44.719> it's<01:43:45.040> true<01:43:46.159> then<01:43:46.560> you<01:43:46.800> believe<01:43:47.040> that<01:43:47.199> it<01:43:47.360> is<01:43:47.520> true<01:43:47.760> because<01:43:47.920> you've<01:43:48.239> understood<01:43:48.960> all<01:43:49.119> the<01:43:49.280> rules.

01:43:49.520 --> 01:43:53.760
You<01:43:49.679> looked<01:43:49.840> at<01:43:49.920> the<01:43:50.080> first<01:43:50.239> one<01:43:50.560> say<01:43:50.719> yeah<01:43:51.280> that's<01:43:51.520> okay<01:43:52.239> and<01:43:52.400> you<01:43:52.639> go<01:43:52.719> all<01:43:52.800> the<01:43:52.960> way<01:43:53.119> down.

01:43:53.760 --> 01:43:59.600
Now<01:43:54.000> what<01:43:54.239> Gödel<01:43:54.639> shows<01:43:55.679> as<01:43:55.920> he<01:43:56.159> constructs<01:43:57.199> it's<01:43:57.360> a<01:43:57.600> statement<01:43:58.159> which<01:43:58.400> is<01:43:58.560> a<01:43:58.880> number<01:43:59.199> thing.

01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:02.880
You<01:43:59.760> can<01:43:59.920> see<01:44:00.159> by<01:44:00.320> the<01:44:00.400> way<01:44:00.560> it's<01:44:00.719> constructed<01:44:01.199> that<01:44:01.440> it's<01:44:01.679> true.

01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:08.560
But<01:44:03.040> you<01:44:03.280> can<01:44:03.440> also<01:44:03.840> see<01:44:04.400> that<01:44:04.639> it<01:44:04.960> cannot<01:44:05.280> be<01:44:05.520> proved<01:44:06.239> by<01:44:06.480> this<01:44:06.800> procedure.

01:44:08.560 --> 01:44:13.600
This<01:44:08.800> shows<01:44:09.440> that<01:44:09.679> what's<01:44:09.920> going<01:44:10.080> on<01:44:10.239> in<01:44:10.400> our<01:44:10.560> heads<01:44:11.440> is<01:44:11.840> not<01:44:12.239> an<01:44:12.560> algorithm.

01:44:13.600 --> 01:44:22.560
So<01:44:13.920> I<01:44:14.159> formed<01:44:14.480> the<01:44:14.639> view<01:44:15.440> that<01:44:15.840> conscious<01:44:16.480> activities<01:44:17.119> whatever<01:44:17.440> they<01:44:17.600> are<01:44:17.840> playing<01:44:18.159> music<01:44:18.480> or<01:44:19.840> falling<01:44:20.159> in<01:44:20.320> love<01:44:20.480> or<01:44:20.639> whatever<01:44:20.960> these<01:44:21.199> things<01:44:21.440> might<01:44:21.600> be

01:44:22.560 --> 01:44:25.679
are<01:44:22.960> not<01:44:23.360> computations.<01:44:24.000> There's<01:44:24.239> something<01:44:24.400> else<01:44:24.639> going<01:44:24.960> on.

01:44:25.679 --> 01:44:35.520
<01:44:26.154> Yes.<01:44:26.630> So<01:44:27.105> Gödel's<01:44:27.580> incompleteness<01:44:28.056> theorem<01:44:28.531> basically<01:44:29.006> is<01:44:29.482> saying<01:44:29.957> that<01:44:30.433> if<01:44:30.908> you<01:44:31.383> can<01:44:31.859> write<01:44:32.334> down<01:44:32.809> some<01:44:33.285> mathematical<01:44:33.760> axioms

01:44:35.520 --> 01:44:44.080
<01:44:35.828> and<01:44:36.136> if<01:44:36.444> they're<01:44:36.753> consistent<01:44:37.061> you're<01:44:37.369> good<01:44:37.677> and<01:44:37.985> you<01:44:38.293> can<01:44:38.601> prove<01:44:38.910> a<01:44:39.218> lot<01:44:39.526> of<01:44:39.834> stuff<01:44:40.142> and<01:44:40.450> in<01:44:40.759> some<01:44:41.067> cases<01:44:41.375> you<01:44:41.683> can<01:44:41.991> prove<01:44:42.299> an<01:44:42.607> infinite<01:44:42.916> amount<01:44:43.224> of<01:44:43.532> stuff<01:44:43.840> but

01:44:44.080 --> 01:44:54.000
what<01:44:44.320> Gödel<01:44:44.800> showed<01:44:45.040> was<01:44:45.280> that<01:44:45.520> there<01:44:46.320> there<01:44:46.560> will<01:44:46.800> be<01:44:46.960> things<01:44:47.199> that<01:44:48.239> are<01:44:48.480> true<01:44:49.600> that<01:44:49.920> escape<01:44:51.600> proof<01:44:53.679> from

01:44:54.000 --> 01:44:58.560
your<01:44:54.239> axioms.<01:44:55.199> You<01:44:55.600> with<01:44:55.840> your<01:44:56.000> axioms<01:44:56.480> you<01:44:56.639> cannot<01:44:56.880> prove<01:44:57.199> those<01:44:57.440> things.

01:44:58.560 --> 01:45:07.119
<01:44:59.109> So<01:44:59.659> what<01:45:00.208> what<01:45:00.757> he<01:45:01.307> basically<01:45:01.856> what<01:45:02.405> showed<01:45:02.955> was<01:45:03.504> most<01:45:04.053> people<01:45:04.603> think<01:45:05.152> consistency<01:45:05.701> is<01:45:06.251> is<01:45:06.800> there.

01:45:07.119 --> 01:45:10.080
So<01:45:08.400> we're<01:45:08.639> going<01:45:08.800> to<01:45:08.880> assume<01:45:09.199> consistency.

01:45:10.080 --> 01:45:16.960
So<01:45:10.400> what<01:45:10.639> we<01:45:10.800> get<01:45:10.960> then<01:45:11.199> is<01:45:11.280> incompleteness<01:45:12.000> that<01:45:12.320> you<01:45:12.560> can<01:45:12.639> write<01:45:12.880> down<01:45:13.119> a<01:45:13.360> set<01:45:13.440> of<01:45:13.600> axioms<01:45:14.400> they're<01:45:14.719> consistent<01:45:15.119> and<01:45:15.360> everything<01:45:15.600> that<01:45:15.840> comes<01:45:16.000> out<01:45:16.080> of<01:45:16.159> them<01:45:16.320> is<01:45:16.480> consistent.

01:45:16.960 --> 01:45:25.040
We<01:45:17.324> assume<01:45:17.687> that<01:45:18.051> <01:45:18.415> but<01:45:18.778> there<01:45:19.142> are<01:45:19.505> truths<01:45:19.869> mathematical<01:45:20.233> truths<01:45:20.596> that<01:45:20.960> cannot<01:45:21.324> be<01:45:21.687> proven<01:45:22.051> <01:45:22.415> from<01:45:22.778> from<01:45:23.142> those<01:45:23.505> and<01:45:23.869> that's<01:45:24.233> going<01:45:24.596> to<01:45:24.960> be

01:45:25.040 --> 01:45:32.639
the<01:45:25.280> case<01:45:25.679> no<01:45:25.760> matter<01:45:26.320> how<01:45:26.880> many<01:45:27.199> axioms<01:45:27.760> you<01:45:28.400> stick<01:45:28.639> in<01:45:28.800> there<01:45:28.960> because<01:45:29.199> you<01:45:29.360> can<01:45:29.520> take<01:45:30.159> the<01:45:30.400> Gödel<01:45:30.800> statement<01:45:31.040> that<01:45:31.199> says<01:45:31.360> this<01:45:31.520> is<01:45:31.679> true<01:45:31.760> and<01:45:31.920> not<01:45:32.080> provable<01:45:32.480> stick

01:45:32.639 --> 01:45:38.800
it<01:45:32.719> in<01:45:32.880> there<01:45:33.119> and<01:45:33.280> then<01:45:33.520> show<01:45:33.760> that<01:45:34.159> you<01:45:34.400> still<01:45:34.639> get<01:45:34.880> new<01:45:35.360> Gödel<01:45:35.760> statements<01:45:36.159> that<01:45:36.320> that<01:45:37.440> will<01:45:37.679> escape<01:45:38.000> you.

01:45:38.800 --> 01:45:41.119
Now<01:45:39.119> this<01:45:39.280> is<01:45:39.440> exactly<01:45:39.679> what<01:45:39.920> I<01:45:40.080> was<01:45:40.159> saying<01:45:40.320> about<01:45:40.560> science.

01:45:41.119 --> 01:45:47.920
Earlier<01:45:41.452> on<01:45:41.786> I<01:45:42.119> was<01:45:42.452> saying<01:45:42.786> that<01:45:43.119> science<01:45:43.452> starts<01:45:43.786> with<01:45:44.119> assumptions<01:45:44.452> <01:45:44.786> and<01:45:45.119> your<01:45:45.452> assumptions<01:45:45.786> we<01:45:46.119> assume<01:45:46.452> that<01:45:46.786> they're<01:45:47.119> consistent.

01:45:47.920 --> 01:45:50.000
Um<01:45:48.159> but<01:45:48.320> you'll<01:45:48.560> never<01:45:48.719> get<01:45:48.880> a<01:45:49.040> theory<01:45:49.280> of<01:45:49.440> everything.

01:45:50.000 --> 01:45:58.400
So,<01:45:50.880> so<01:45:51.280> I<01:45:52.000> absolutely<01:45:52.400> agree<01:45:52.639> that<01:45:52.800> there<01:45:53.040> is<01:45:53.600> science<01:45:54.480> there<01:45:54.639> is<01:45:54.880> infinite<01:45:55.360> job<01:45:55.679> security<01:45:56.159> in<01:45:56.400> science<01:45:57.679> in<01:45:58.000> principle

01:45:58.400 --> 01:46:06.560
at<01:45:58.480> least<01:45:58.719> in<01:45:58.880> principle<01:45:59.679> it<01:45:59.920> depends<01:46:00.159> on<01:46:00.400> the<01:46:00.719> administration<01:46:01.199> and<01:46:01.360> the<01:46:01.520> funding<01:46:01.840> but<01:46:02.080> but<01:46:02.320> in<01:46:02.480> in<01:46:02.719> principle<01:46:03.520> there<01:46:03.760> is<01:46:04.000> infinite<01:46:04.320> job<01:46:04.560> security<01:46:04.960> because<01:46:05.760> um<01:46:06.159> we<01:46:06.400> will

01:46:06.560 --> 01:46:15.199
never<01:46:06.935> have<01:46:07.309> the<01:46:07.684> final<01:46:08.058> set<01:46:08.433> of<01:46:08.807> assumptions<01:46:09.182> and<01:46:09.556> uh<01:46:09.931> Gödel's<01:46:10.305> theorem<01:46:10.680> makes<01:46:11.055> it<01:46:11.429> impossible<01:46:11.804> to<01:46:12.178> to<01:46:12.553> have<01:46:12.927> something<01:46:13.302> that'll<01:46:13.676> prove<01:46:14.051> everything<01:46:14.425> <01:46:14.800> so

01:46:15.199 --> 01:46:23.679
because<01:46:16.560> the<01:46:16.800> axioms<01:46:17.280> in<01:46:17.440> mathematical<01:46:18.719> science<01:46:19.840> are<01:46:20.719> um<01:46:20.960> rich<01:46:21.199> enough<01:46:21.679> to<01:46:22.719> inherit<01:46:23.199> Gödel's

01:46:23.679 --> 01:46:28.400
incompleteness<01:46:24.400> theorem.<01:46:24.880> So<01:46:25.119> we<01:46:25.280> we<01:46:25.679> will<01:46:26.159> be<01:46:26.400> incomplete.

01:46:28.400 --> 01:46:32.639
So<01:46:28.639> it<01:46:28.800> it<01:46:29.119> has<01:46:29.280> that<01:46:30.239> that<01:46:30.639> implication.

01:46:32.639 --> 01:46:37.280
It's<01:46:32.960> good<01:46:33.040> for<01:46:33.199> job<01:46:33.520> security.<01:46:34.239> It<01:46:34.480> it's<01:46:34.800> all<01:46:34.960> it's<01:46:35.199> bad<01:46:35.360> for<01:46:35.600> someone<01:46:35.760> who<01:46:36.000> wants<01:46:36.159> to<01:46:36.400> have<01:46:36.480> a<01:46:36.639> theory<01:46:36.800> of<01:46:36.960> everything.

01:46:37.280 --> 01:46:40.480
It<01:46:37.440> says<01:46:37.600> that<01:46:37.840> you<01:46:38.000> can<01:46:38.239> never<01:46:38.560> have<01:46:38.719> a<01:46:38.880> theory<01:46:39.119> of<01:46:39.280> everything.

01:46:40.480 --> 01:46:46.880
<01:46:40.874> And<01:46:41.269> now<01:46:41.663> we're<01:46:42.057> Penrose<01:46:42.451> goes<01:46:42.846> with<01:46:43.240> it<01:46:43.634> about<01:46:44.029> that<01:46:44.423> there's<01:46:44.817> something<01:46:45.211> that<01:46:45.606> transcends<01:46:46.000> computation.

01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:55.360
I'm<01:46:46.960> I'm<01:46:47.760> fine<01:46:48.000> with<01:46:48.080> that.<01:46:48.320> That's<01:46:48.639> I<01:46:48.880> mean<01:46:50.560> sure<01:46:52.000> there<01:46:52.480> and<01:46:52.719> he<01:46:52.960> he<01:46:53.199> also<01:46:53.360> goes<01:46:53.760> and<01:46:54.000> says<01:46:54.239> that<01:46:54.400> our<01:46:54.639> understanding<01:46:55.199> that

01:46:55.360 --> 01:47:03.679
that<01:46:55.760> he<01:46:56.160> likes<01:46:56.560> to<01:46:56.960> point<01:46:57.360> out<01:46:57.760> that<01:46:58.160> somehow<01:46:58.560> he<01:46:58.960> as<01:46:59.360> a<01:46:59.760> mathematician<01:47:00.160> <01:47:00.560> understands<01:47:00.960> at<01:47:01.360> a<01:47:01.760> meta<01:47:02.160> level<01:47:02.560> <01:47:02.960> that<01:47:03.360> that

01:47:03.679 --> 01:47:11.040
thing<01:47:03.840> is<01:47:04.080> true<01:47:04.560> that<01:47:04.800> statement<01:47:05.119> the<01:47:05.280> Gödel<01:47:05.520> statement<01:47:05.760> is<01:47:06.000> true<01:47:06.560> and<01:47:06.719> he<01:47:06.960> understands<01:47:07.360> why<01:47:07.520> it's<01:47:07.760> not<01:47:07.920> provable<01:47:08.800> even<01:47:09.040> though<01:47:09.199> the<01:47:09.520> the<01:47:09.920> computation<01:47:10.480> itself<01:47:10.800> from

01:47:11.040 --> 01:47:20.000
the<01:47:11.199> axioms<01:47:12.239> can't<01:47:12.800> get<01:47:13.040> to<01:47:13.199> the<01:47:13.360> the<01:47:13.840> statement<01:47:14.400> so<01:47:14.560> he's<01:47:14.800> saying<01:47:15.119> in<01:47:15.440> some<01:47:15.600> sense<01:47:15.920> I'm<01:47:16.159> not<01:47:16.400> just<01:47:16.560> an<01:47:16.800> algorithm<01:47:17.520> I'm<01:47:18.159> I'm<01:47:18.639> the<01:47:19.360> conscious

01:47:20.000 --> 01:47:22.960
whatever<01:47:20.480> maybe<01:47:21.360> I<01:47:21.520> guess<01:47:21.600> he<01:47:21.760> would<01:47:21.840> like<01:47:22.000> to<01:47:22.159> say<01:47:22.320> conscious.

01:47:22.960 --> 01:47:31.440
I<01:47:23.119> won't<01:47:23.280> put<01:47:23.440> words<01:47:23.600> in<01:47:23.760> his<01:47:23.840> mouth.<01:47:24.000> I'll<01:47:24.239> say<01:47:24.480> all<01:47:24.639> the<01:47:24.800> Hoffman<01:47:25.199> is<01:47:25.360> saying<01:47:25.679> I'm<01:47:25.920> the<01:47:26.080> conscious<01:47:26.560> observer<01:47:27.360> who<01:47:27.679> is<01:47:28.320> um<01:47:29.520> just<01:47:29.840> understanding<01:47:30.480> this<01:47:31.119> and

01:47:31.440 --> 01:47:39.440
so<01:47:31.600> I'm<01:47:31.920> some<01:47:32.159> sense<01:47:32.400> beyond<01:47:33.840> computation<01:47:35.040> and<01:47:36.400> I've<01:47:36.719> already<01:47:36.960> said<01:47:37.040> that<01:47:37.280> I<01:47:37.440> think<01:47:37.600> that<01:47:37.760> computations<01:47:38.320> can't<01:47:38.480> give<01:47:38.639> rise<01:47:38.880> to<01:47:39.040> consciousness.

01:47:39.440 --> 01:47:42.400
Well,<01:47:39.600> we've<01:47:39.840> talked<01:47:40.000> about<01:47:40.080> that<01:47:40.239> earlier.<01:47:40.639> So<01:47:40.880> I'm<01:47:41.040> I'm<01:47:41.360> already<01:47:41.520> there<01:47:41.679> on<01:47:41.920> other<01:47:42.080> grounds.

01:47:42.400 --> 01:47:46.239
I<01:47:42.560> I<01:47:42.960> my<01:47:43.280> grounds<01:47:43.600> for<01:47:43.760> that<01:47:44.239> are<01:47:44.400> not<01:47:44.639> Gödel's<01:47:45.199> incompleteness<01:47:45.920> theorem.

01:47:46.239 --> 01:47:49.280
My<01:47:46.480> grounds<01:47:46.800> are<01:47:47.119> give<01:47:47.280> me<01:47:47.440> one.<01:47:47.920> No<01:47:48.159> one<01:47:48.239> can<01:47:48.400> give<01:47:48.560> me<01:47:48.719> one.

01:47:49.280 --> 01:47:53.520
Um<01:47:49.600> until<01:47:49.840> you<01:47:50.000> can<01:47:50.080> give<01:47:50.239> me<01:47:50.320> one.<01:47:50.639> Um<01:47:51.600> there's<01:47:51.840> there's<01:47:52.159> nothing<01:47:52.639> and<01:47:52.800> I<01:47:52.960> don't<01:47:53.119> think<01:47:53.199> you<01:47:53.360> can.

01:47:53.520 --> 01:47:57.040
I<01:47:53.754> just<01:47:53.988> Good<01:47:54.222> luck.<01:47:54.455> I<01:47:54.689> don't<01:47:54.923> I<01:47:55.157> have<01:47:55.391> no<01:47:55.625> clue<01:47:55.858> how<01:47:56.092> to<01:47:56.326> do<01:47:56.560> it.

01:47:57.040 --> 01:48:02.320
I<01:47:57.199> mean,<01:47:58.000> usually<01:47:58.639> if<01:47:58.800> if<01:47:59.119> it<01:47:59.280> can<01:47:59.360> be<01:47:59.520> done,<01:47:59.760> you<01:48:00.000> have<01:48:00.239> some<01:48:00.560> clue<01:48:00.880> how<01:48:01.119> you<01:48:01.520> go<01:48:01.760> about<01:48:01.920> doing<01:48:02.159> it.

01:48:02.320 --> 01:48:05.360
And<01:48:02.480> I<01:48:02.560> I<01:48:02.800> literally<01:48:03.119> have<01:48:03.440> no<01:48:03.760> clue<01:48:04.159> how<01:48:04.400> to<01:48:04.560> go<01:48:04.639> about<01:48:04.880> it.

01:48:05.360 --> 01:48:13.520
And<01:48:05.520> and<01:48:05.760> when<01:48:05.920> you<01:48:06.000> look<01:48:06.080> at,<01:48:06.320> you<01:48:06.400> know,<01:48:06.560> for<01:48:06.639> example,<01:48:07.040> you<01:48:07.199> know,<01:48:07.280> I'm<01:48:08.159> I'm<01:48:08.400> friends<01:48:08.560> with<01:48:08.800> Kristoff<01:48:09.280> Koch<01:48:09.600> and<01:48:09.760> Tononi<01:48:10.239> and<01:48:10.320> and<01:48:10.560> so<01:48:10.719> forth<01:48:11.199> with<01:48:11.440> the<01:48:11.840> um<01:48:12.800> um<01:48:12.960> their<01:48:13.280> approach

01:48:13.520 --> 01:48:23.199
to<01:48:13.760> trying<01:48:14.000> to<01:48:14.400> um<01:48:14.719> compute<01:48:15.119> phi<01:48:15.520> on<01:48:16.000> you<01:48:16.400> Markov<01:48:17.040> matrices<01:48:17.600> effectively<01:48:18.480> um<01:48:19.360> to<01:48:19.679> give<01:48:19.840> you<01:48:20.080> these<01:48:20.560> um<01:48:21.920> um

01:48:23.199 --> 01:48:28.400
models<01:48:23.679> of<01:48:23.840> of<01:48:25.440> of<01:48:25.679> experience<01:48:26.239> coming<01:48:26.560> from<01:48:26.800> like<01:48:27.040> causal<01:48:27.440> structure.

01:48:28.400 --> 01:48:34.719
So<01:48:28.560> you<01:48:28.800> can<01:48:28.880> write<01:48:29.040> down<01:48:29.360> a<01:48:29.600> particular<01:48:29.920> causal<01:48:30.320> structure<01:48:30.639> that<01:48:30.719> will<01:48:30.880> give<01:48:31.040> you<01:48:31.199> a<01:48:31.440> particular<01:48:31.760> conscious<01:48:32.239> experience<01:48:32.639> and<01:48:32.880> you<01:48:32.960> can<01:48:33.040> write<01:48:33.199> down<01:48:33.360> as<01:48:33.520> Markov<01:48:33.920> matrix

01:48:34.719 --> 01:48:43.440
but<01:48:35.045> when<01:48:35.371> I<01:48:35.697> ask<01:48:36.024> them<01:48:36.350> okay<01:48:36.676> give<01:48:37.002> me<01:48:37.328> a<01:48:37.654> matrix<01:48:37.981> for<01:48:38.307> mint<01:48:38.633> or<01:48:38.959> whatever<01:48:39.285> <01:48:39.611> there's<01:48:39.937> there's<01:48:40.264> no<01:48:40.590> matrix<01:48:40.916> no<01:48:41.242> and<01:48:41.568> and<01:48:41.894> they're<01:48:42.221> friends<01:48:42.547> they're<01:48:42.873> brilliant<01:48:43.199> I'm

01:48:43.440 --> 01:48:49.520
not<01:48:43.600> putting<01:48:43.760> them<01:48:43.920> down<01:48:44.159> they're<01:48:44.320> they're<01:48:44.400> they're<01:48:44.960> brilliant<01:48:45.199> and<01:48:45.440> hardworking<01:48:46.000> and<01:48:46.400> genuine<01:48:46.960> good<01:48:47.199> scientists<01:48:48.000> but<01:48:48.159> they<01:48:48.320> can't<01:48:48.480> put<01:48:48.639> down<01:48:48.800> a<01:48:48.960> matrix<01:48:49.280> and<01:48:49.360> they

01:48:49.520 --> 01:48:55.520
never<01:48:49.679> will.<01:48:50.320> So<01:48:50.480> there's<01:48:50.719> just<01:48:50.880> no<01:48:51.119> way<01:48:51.199> that<01:48:51.440> the<01:48:51.679> integrated<01:48:52.159> information<01:48:52.480> theory<01:48:52.800> can<01:48:52.960> ever<01:48:53.119> explain<01:48:53.360> a<01:48:53.600> single<01:48:53.840> specific<01:48:54.239> conscious<01:48:54.639> experience.

01:48:55.520 --> 01:49:03.920
So,<01:48:55.840> so<01:48:56.000> I'm<01:48:56.159> I'm<01:48:56.480> I'm<01:48:57.280> non<01:48:58.239> I<01:48:58.400> I<01:48:58.719> know<01:48:58.800> that<01:48:59.840> my<01:49:00.719> belief<01:49:01.040> is<01:49:01.280> that<01:49:01.600> conscious<01:49:02.000> experience<01:49:02.480> transcends<01:49:03.119> computation<01:49:03.679> for

01:49:03.920 --> 01:49:10.960
that<01:49:04.080> kind<01:49:04.239> of<01:49:04.400> reason.<01:49:05.119> But<01:49:05.600> Gödel's<01:49:06.159> incompleteness<01:49:06.800> theorem<01:49:07.040> I<01:49:07.199> think<01:49:07.280> is<01:49:07.520> another<01:49:08.560> way<01:49:08.800> of<01:49:09.040> saying<01:49:09.280> the<01:49:09.600> same<01:49:09.760> thing<01:49:09.920> from<01:49:10.159> a<01:49:10.320> different<01:49:10.480> angle.

01:49:10.960 --> 01:49:16.000
Yeah.<01:49:11.269> <01:49:11.579> We're<01:49:11.888> going<01:49:12.197> to<01:49:12.507> be<01:49:12.816> sitting<01:49:13.125> down<01:49:13.435> with<01:49:13.744> Kristoff<01:49:14.053> next<01:49:14.363> week<01:49:14.672> actually<01:49:14.981> for<01:49:15.291> a<01:49:15.600> podcast.

01:49:16.000 --> 01:49:24.239
<01:49:16.400> Oh,<01:49:16.800> say<01:49:17.200> hi<01:49:17.600> for<01:49:18.000> me.<01:49:18.400> [laughter]<01:49:18.800> Um,<01:49:19.200> <01:49:19.600> yeah,<01:49:20.000> <01:49:20.400> Donald,<01:49:20.800> you<01:49:21.200> basically<01:49:21.600> are<01:49:22.000> proving<01:49:22.400> how<01:49:22.800> consciousness<01:49:23.200> is<01:49:23.600> fundamental<01:49:24.000> through

01:49:24.239 --> 01:49:27.199
your<01:49:24.400> theory<01:49:25.119> and<01:49:25.440> we<01:49:25.760> both<01:49:26.080> agree<01:49:26.400> with<01:49:26.560> that.

01:49:27.199 --> 01:49:34.960
Um,<01:49:27.600> right<01:49:28.000> now<01:49:28.560> is<01:49:28.800> there<01:49:29.280> or<01:49:29.520> what<01:49:29.760> is<01:49:30.000> I<01:49:30.159> guess<01:49:30.239> I<01:49:30.480> should<01:49:30.560> ask<01:49:30.800> the<01:49:30.960> strongest<01:49:31.360> argument<01:49:31.679> against<01:49:32.000> your<01:49:32.239> own<01:49:32.400> theory<01:49:32.719> that<01:49:33.199> maybe<01:49:33.600> somewhat<01:49:34.000> has<01:49:34.239> some<01:49:34.480> strength<01:49:34.800> to

01:49:34.960 --> 01:49:43.119
it?<01:49:35.256> <01:49:35.553> Oh,<01:49:35.849> sure.<01:49:36.145> I<01:49:36.441> if<01:49:36.738> um<01:49:37.034> if<01:49:37.330> I<01:49:37.627> were<01:49:37.923> an<01:49:38.219> outsider,<01:49:38.516> I<01:49:38.812> would<01:49:39.108> say<01:49:39.404> um<01:49:39.701> Hoffman<01:49:39.997> um<01:49:40.293> you<01:49:40.590> need<01:49:40.886> to<01:49:41.182> show<01:49:41.479> how<01:49:41.775> you<01:49:42.071> get<01:49:42.367> spacetime<01:49:42.664> as<01:49:42.960> a

01:49:43.119 --> 01:49:49.440
headset.<01:49:43.418> You<01:49:43.717> claim<01:49:44.016> spacetime<01:49:44.315> as<01:49:44.614> a<01:49:44.913> headset.<01:49:45.212> You<01:49:45.511> need<01:49:45.810> to<01:49:46.109> show<01:49:46.408> exactly<01:49:46.707> how<01:49:47.006> you<01:49:47.305> get<01:49:47.604> Minkowski<01:49:47.903> space,<01:49:48.202> Einstein's<01:49:48.501> flat<01:49:48.800> spacetime.

01:49:49.440 --> 01:49:52.400
You<01:49:49.600> need<01:49:49.679> to<01:49:49.760> get<01:49:49.920> curved<01:49:50.239> spacetime.<01:49:50.880> You<01:49:51.040> have<01:49:51.119> to<01:49:51.199> get<01:49:51.360> quantum<01:49:51.679> field<01:49:51.920> theory.

01:49:52.400 --> 01:49:59.040
You<01:49:52.639> have<01:49:52.719> to<01:49:52.800> show<01:49:53.040> exactly<01:49:53.440> how<01:49:54.320> um<01:49:54.560> non-locality<01:49:55.360> or<01:49:55.920> contextuality<01:49:56.639> in<01:49:56.880> quantum<01:49:57.199> mechanics<01:49:57.520> arises<01:49:57.920> from<01:49:58.159> your<01:49:58.400> approach.

01:49:59.040 --> 01:50:02.480
In<01:49:59.199> other<01:49:59.360> words,<01:49:59.760> you<01:50:00.000> have<01:50:00.639> you're<01:50:01.119> promising<01:50:01.440> a<01:50:01.600> lot<01:50:01.679> of<01:50:01.840> stuff<01:50:02.000> here.

01:50:02.480 --> 01:50:06.000
You're<01:50:02.639> saying<01:50:02.880> you<01:50:03.040> can<01:50:03.199> start<01:50:03.280> with<01:50:03.440> this<01:50:03.600> trace<01:50:03.840> logic.<01:50:04.480> I<01:50:04.719> should<01:50:04.880> say<01:50:05.360> trace<01:50:05.600> logic.

01:50:06.000 --> 01:50:08.639
There's<01:50:06.159> a<01:50:06.320> recursion<01:50:06.719> I<01:50:06.800> can<01:50:06.880> tell<01:50:06.960> you<01:50:07.040> about<01:50:07.199> this<01:50:07.440> called<01:50:07.520> the<01:50:07.679> recursive<01:50:08.080> trace<01:50:08.320> logic.

01:50:08.639 --> 01:50:13.199
So<01:50:08.800> there's<01:50:09.360> a<01:50:09.600> step<01:50:09.840> I<01:50:10.080> can<01:50:10.159> tell<01:50:10.320> you<01:50:11.440> if<01:50:11.679> you<01:50:11.760> want<01:50:12.320> about<01:50:12.639> that.

01:50:13.199 --> 01:50:17.280
But<01:50:13.399> so<01:50:13.599> with<01:50:13.799> the<01:50:13.999> recursive<01:50:14.199> trace<01:50:14.399> logic,<01:50:14.599> I'm<01:50:14.799> I'm<01:50:15.000> going<01:50:15.200> to<01:50:15.400> have<01:50:15.600> to<01:50:15.800> give<01:50:16.000> you<01:50:16.200> the<01:50:16.400> headset.

01:50:17.280 --> 01:50:21.440
I'm<01:50:17.538> going<01:50:17.797> to<01:50:18.055> have<01:50:18.314> to<01:50:18.572> show<01:50:18.830> how<01:50:19.089> to<01:50:19.347> get<01:50:19.605> contextuality,<01:50:19.864> quantum<01:50:20.122> quantum<01:50:20.381> field<01:50:20.639> theory.

01:50:21.440 --> 01:50:29.280
There's<01:50:21.732> a<01:50:22.025> lot<01:50:22.317> of<01:50:22.609> stuff<01:50:22.902> that<01:50:23.194> I've<01:50:23.486> got<01:50:23.778> to<01:50:24.071> get<01:50:24.363> all<01:50:24.655> all<01:50:24.948> of<01:50:25.240> the<01:50:25.532> results<01:50:25.825> of<01:50:26.117> of<01:50:26.409> modern<01:50:26.702> physics<01:50:26.994> <01:50:27.286> um<01:50:27.578> before<01:50:27.871> I'm<01:50:28.163> on<01:50:28.455> the<01:50:28.748> playing<01:50:29.040> field.

01:50:29.280 --> 01:50:31.520
So<01:50:29.440> that's<01:50:29.760> that's<01:50:30.000> what<01:50:30.159> the<01:50:30.320> trace<01:50:30.719> institute<01:50:31.280> are.

01:50:31.520 --> 01:50:36.639
We<01:50:31.760> have<01:50:32.400> um<01:50:32.560> nine<01:50:32.880> conjectures<01:50:33.360> that<01:50:33.600> or<01:50:33.760> eight<01:50:33.920> or<01:50:34.080> nine<01:50:34.239> conjectures<01:50:34.560> in<01:50:34.719> the<01:50:34.880> paper<01:50:35.040> I<01:50:35.280> I<01:50:36.000> gave<01:50:36.159> you.

01:50:36.639 --> 01:50:45.040
So<01:50:37.280> that<01:50:37.520> would<01:50:37.600> be<01:50:37.840> if<01:50:38.080> I<01:50:38.159> were<01:50:38.239> a<01:50:38.320> hard-nosed<01:50:38.560> person<01:50:38.800> I<01:50:38.960> would<01:50:39.119> say<01:50:39.280> um<01:50:39.600> Hoffman<01:50:40.239> until<01:50:40.639> you<01:50:40.960> have<01:50:41.119> those<01:50:41.280> nine<01:50:41.440> conjectures<01:50:41.679> proven<01:50:42.159> um<01:50:43.040> you<01:50:43.199> know<01:50:43.440> good<01:50:43.840> luck<01:50:44.159> <01:50:44.880> right

01:50:45.040 --> 01:50:53.440
when<01:50:45.380> if<01:50:45.720> you<01:50:46.060> have<01:50:46.400> those<01:50:46.740> nine<01:50:47.080> conjectures<01:50:47.420> proven<01:50:47.760> <01:50:48.100> um<01:50:48.440> then<01:50:48.780> there's<01:50:49.120> something<01:50:49.459> to<01:50:49.799> talk<01:50:50.139> about<01:50:50.479> now<01:50:50.819> the<01:50:51.159> nice<01:50:51.499> thing<01:50:51.839> is<01:50:52.179> um<01:50:52.519> with<01:50:52.859> AI<01:50:53.199> working

01:50:53.440 --> 01:51:01.679
with<01:50:53.600> a<01:50:53.760> group<01:50:53.920> right<01:50:54.159> now<01:50:54.400> that<01:50:54.639> has<01:50:55.440> um<01:50:55.840> some<01:50:56.560> a<01:50:56.880> lot<01:50:56.960> of<01:50:57.040> AI<01:50:58.239> tech<01:50:58.560> people<01:50:59.119> so<01:50:59.360> people<01:50:59.760> with<01:51:00.000> PhDs<01:51:00.400> in<01:51:00.560> mathematics<01:51:01.199> they're<01:51:01.520> very

01:51:01.679 --> 01:51:10.000
interested<01:51:01.920> in<01:51:02.080> this<01:51:02.320> work<01:51:02.719> so<01:51:03.119> this<01:51:03.280> week<01:51:03.520> I'm<01:51:03.760> working<01:51:04.320> with<01:51:04.560> them<01:51:05.280> we<01:51:05.520> may<01:51:05.760> be<01:51:05.840> able<01:51:06.000> to<01:51:06.320> nail<01:51:06.639> down<01:51:06.880> all<01:51:07.040> of<01:51:07.199> those<01:51:07.360> conjectures<01:51:07.840> using<01:51:08.080> AI<01:51:08.560> in<01:51:08.800> very<01:51:09.040> short<01:51:09.280> order.

01:51:10.000 --> 01:51:16.159
<01:51:10.224> Oh<01:51:10.448> wow.<01:51:10.672> <01:51:10.896> That's<01:51:11.120> that's<01:51:11.344> that's<01:51:11.568> the<01:51:11.792> the<01:51:12.016> goal<01:51:12.240> is<01:51:12.464> I've<01:51:12.688> been<01:51:12.912> looking<01:51:13.136> at<01:51:13.360> them<01:51:13.584> for<01:51:13.808> the<01:51:14.032> last<01:51:14.256> couple<01:51:14.480> years<01:51:14.704> and<01:51:14.928> and<01:51:15.152> they're<01:51:15.376> not<01:51:15.600> easy.

01:51:16.159 --> 01:51:20.880
They're<01:51:16.480> not<01:51:16.639> easy.<01:51:17.199> But<01:51:17.360> with<01:51:17.600> AI<01:51:18.000> right<01:51:18.239> now,<01:51:18.560> it<01:51:18.800> may<01:51:18.880> not<01:51:19.040> be<01:51:19.199> that<01:51:19.360> I<01:51:19.600> need<01:51:20.080> to<01:51:20.239> do<01:51:20.400> it<01:51:20.560> myself.

01:51:20.880 --> 01:51:23.199
I<01:51:21.040> may<01:51:21.360> me<01:51:21.520> and<01:51:21.679> mathematicians<01:51:22.239> may<01:51:22.400> not<01:51:22.560> need<01:51:22.639> to<01:51:22.800> do<01:51:22.880> it.

01:51:23.199 --> 01:51:28.639
We<01:51:23.500> can<01:51:23.801> have<01:51:24.103> um<01:51:24.404> an<01:51:24.705> advanced<01:51:25.006> AI<01:51:25.308> <01:51:25.609> just<01:51:25.910> take<01:51:26.211> care<01:51:26.513> of<01:51:26.814> this<01:51:27.115> in<01:51:27.416> just<01:51:27.718> a<01:51:28.019> few<01:51:28.320> weeks.

01:51:28.639 --> 01:51:31.920
So<01:51:28.800> I<01:51:29.040> may<01:51:30.159> it<01:51:30.320> may<01:51:30.480> be<01:51:30.560> just<01:51:30.719> a<01:51:30.880> few<01:51:30.960> weeks<01:51:31.040> and<01:51:31.280> I'll<01:51:31.440> know.

01:51:31.920 --> 01:51:34.400
<01:51:32.200> Oh<01:51:32.480> wow.<01:51:32.760> <01:51:33.040> Yeah,<01:51:33.319> that<01:51:33.599> would<01:51:33.879> be<01:51:34.159> something.

01:51:34.400 --> 01:51:38.560
<01:51:34.575> But<01:51:34.750> that's<01:51:34.925> the<01:51:35.100> hard-nosed<01:51:35.275> thing.<01:51:35.450> That's<01:51:35.625> what<01:51:35.799> I<01:51:35.974> would<01:51:36.149> say<01:51:36.324> to<01:51:36.499> myself<01:51:36.674> if<01:51:36.849> I<01:51:37.024> was<01:51:37.199> hard-nosed.

01:51:38.560 --> 01:51:43.280
Show<01:51:38.719> me<01:51:38.880> the<01:51:39.040> beef.<01:51:39.679> Give<01:51:39.920> me<01:51:40.159> If<01:51:40.320> you<01:51:40.400> have<01:51:40.560> the<01:51:40.719> conjectures,<01:51:41.760> um,<01:51:42.000> doesn't<01:51:42.159> mean<01:51:42.239> you're<01:51:42.480> right.

01:51:43.280 --> 01:51:48.400
<01:51:43.520> It<01:51:43.760> just<01:51:43.920> means<01:51:44.159> you're<01:51:44.320> not<01:51:44.560> wrong<01:51:45.040> yet.<01:51:45.199> So,<01:51:45.360> if<01:51:45.520> I<01:51:45.599> were<01:51:45.840> hard-nosed,<01:51:46.000> I<01:51:46.159> would<01:51:46.320> say,<01:51:46.400> "Yeah,<01:51:47.040> conjectures<01:51:47.679> doesn't<01:51:47.840> mean<01:51:48.000> you're<01:51:48.159> right."

01:51:48.400 --> 01:51:53.520
But,<01:51:48.480> but<01:51:48.800> it<01:51:48.880> does<01:51:49.040> mean<01:51:49.280> now<01:51:49.520> maybe<01:51:49.760> I<01:51:49.920> would<01:51:50.000> like<01:51:50.159> to<01:51:50.239> fund<01:51:50.480> you<01:51:50.639> a<01:51:50.800> little<01:51:50.880> bit<01:51:51.040> just<01:51:51.280> to<01:51:51.520> see<01:51:51.679> where<01:51:52.000> this<01:51:52.239> might<01:51:52.480> go,<01:51:52.880> right?

01:51:53.520 --> 01:51:57.840
Because<01:51:54.239> here's<01:51:54.560> the<01:51:54.880> here's<01:51:55.119> the<01:51:55.280> deal.

01:51:57.840 --> 01:52:00.719
Here's<01:51:58.159> the<01:51:58.800> the<01:51:59.199> payoffs<01:51:59.599> that<01:51:59.840> you<01:52:00.000> could<01:52:00.159> have.

01:52:00.719 --> 01:52:02.880
I'm<01:52:00.960> reverse<01:52:01.360> engineering<01:52:01.840> if<01:52:02.080> this<01:52:02.320> works.

01:52:02.880 --> 01:52:05.440
Yeah,<01:52:03.200> <01:52:03.520> I'm<01:52:03.840> reverse<01:52:04.160> engineering<01:52:04.480> our<01:52:04.800> headset.

01:52:05.440 --> 01:52:09.360
<01:52:05.653> Mhm.<01:52:05.867> <01:52:06.080> I'm<01:52:06.293> getting<01:52:06.507> the<01:52:06.720> first<01:52:06.933> layer<01:52:07.147> of<01:52:07.360> software.

01:52:09.360 --> 01:52:14.880
<01:52:09.576> If<01:52:09.791> you<01:52:10.007> are<01:52:10.223> the<01:52:10.438> wizard<01:52:10.654> in<01:52:10.870> Grand<01:52:11.085> Theft<01:52:11.301> Auto,<01:52:11.517> you<01:52:11.732> know<01:52:11.948> how<01:52:12.163> to<01:52:12.379> play<01:52:12.595> the<01:52:12.810> game<01:52:13.026> inside<01:52:13.242> the<01:52:13.457> game<01:52:13.673> and<01:52:13.889> you're<01:52:14.104> the<01:52:14.320> best.

01:52:14.880 --> 01:52:20.400
But<01:52:15.040> if<01:52:15.199> you<01:52:15.280> wrote<01:52:15.520> the<01:52:15.760> software,<01:52:17.119> you<01:52:17.280> can<01:52:17.440> take<01:52:17.840> the<01:52:18.080> wizard's<01:52:18.560> car<01:52:18.719> and<01:52:18.880> turn<01:52:19.040> it<01:52:19.199> into<01:52:19.360> a<01:52:19.520> donkey.

01:52:20.400 --> 01:52:22.159
You<01:52:20.617> can<01:52:20.834> do<01:52:21.051> whatever<01:52:21.269> you<01:52:21.486> want,<01:52:21.703> <01:52:21.920> right?

01:52:22.159 --> 01:52:25.199
So<01:52:22.479> you<01:52:22.799> you<01:52:23.120> you<01:52:23.440> can<01:52:23.760> do<01:52:24.080> magic.

01:52:25.199 --> 01:52:29.599
And<01:52:25.575> this<01:52:25.951> is<01:52:26.327> just<01:52:26.703> <01:52:27.080> spacetime<01:52:27.456> is<01:52:27.832> just<01:52:28.208> a<01:52:28.584> little<01:52:28.960> interface.

01:52:29.599 --> 01:52:34.080
Once<01:52:29.840> we<01:52:30.000> have<01:52:30.080> the<01:52:30.239> first<01:52:30.480> layer<01:52:30.560> of<01:52:30.719> software,<01:52:31.360> the<01:52:31.599> technologies,<01:52:32.239> you<01:52:32.480> can't<01:52:32.639> think<01:52:32.880> big<01:52:33.119> enough.

01:52:34.080 --> 01:52:42.000
So,<01:52:34.320> if<01:52:34.560> we<01:52:34.719> actually<01:52:34.960> get<01:52:35.119> these<01:52:35.360> nine<01:52:35.599> conjectures,<01:52:36.560> then<01:52:36.880> I<01:52:37.119> would<01:52:37.280> say<01:52:37.760> um<01:52:38.960> smart<01:52:39.280> investors<01:52:39.679> would<01:52:39.840> want<01:52:40.000> to<01:52:40.080> invest<01:52:40.400> on<01:52:40.560> this<01:52:40.719> because<01:52:40.960> the<01:52:41.199> technologies<01:52:41.760> are

01:52:42.000 --> 01:52:44.639
going<01:52:42.080> to<01:52:42.239> just<01:52:42.480> be<01:52:43.119> completely<01:52:43.679> mind-blowing.

01:52:44.639 --> 01:52:50.800
<01:52:44.917> Yeah,<01:52:45.195> it's<01:52:45.473> going<01:52:45.752> to<01:52:46.030> be<01:52:46.308> a<01:52:46.586> breakthrough.<01:52:46.864> <01:52:47.142> It<01:52:47.420> it'll<01:52:47.699> be<01:52:47.977> everything<01:52:48.255> we<01:52:48.533> have<01:52:48.811> will<01:52:49.089> be<01:52:49.367> firecrackers<01:52:49.646> compared<01:52:49.924> to<01:52:50.202> what's<01:52:50.480> coming.

01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:53.040
Yeah.<01:52:51.200> <01:52:51.600> Or<01:52:52.000> I'm<01:52:52.400> completely<01:52:52.800> wrong.

01:52:53.040 --> 01:52:55.920
So,<01:52:53.265> it's<01:52:53.491> it's<01:52:53.716> one<01:52:53.942> or<01:52:54.167> the<01:52:54.393> other.<01:52:54.618> [laughter]<01:52:54.844> <01:52:55.069> We'll<01:52:55.295> find<01:52:55.520> out.

01:52:55.920 --> 01:52:57.920
<01:52:56.213> We'll<01:52:56.506> find<01:52:56.800> out.<01:52:57.093> Yeah.<01:52:57.386> Next<01:52:57.679> week.

01:52:57.920 --> 01:53:06.159
Yeah.<01:52:59.840> Um,<01:53:01.840> we<01:53:02.400> talked<01:53:02.719> a<01:53:02.880> little<01:53:02.960> bit<01:53:03.119> about<01:53:03.280> this,<01:53:03.599> but<01:53:03.840> when<01:53:04.000> we<01:53:04.239> talk<01:53:04.480> about<01:53:05.040> funding,<01:53:06.000> do

01:53:06.159 --> 01:53:13.520
you<01:53:06.479> think<01:53:06.799> because<01:53:07.119> if<01:53:07.439> we're<01:53:07.759> saying<01:53:08.079> that<01:53:08.399> consciousness<01:53:08.719> is<01:53:09.039> fundamental<01:53:09.359> and<01:53:09.680> brain<01:53:10.000> is<01:53:10.320> not<01:53:10.640> the<01:53:10.960> source<01:53:11.280> of<01:53:11.600> consciousness,<01:53:11.920> do<01:53:12.240> you<01:53:12.560> think<01:53:12.880> neuroscience

01:53:13.520 --> 01:53:16.239
still<01:53:13.817> needs<01:53:14.114> the<01:53:14.411> funding<01:53:14.708> that<01:53:15.005> it's<01:53:15.302> getting<01:53:15.599> today?

01:53:16.239 --> 01:53:18.800
I<01:53:16.480> think<01:53:16.560> neuroscience<01:53:17.280> needs<01:53:17.599> more<01:53:17.840> funding.

01:53:18.800 --> 01:53:24.960
Okay.<01:53:19.199> For<01:53:19.360> the<01:53:19.599> following<01:53:19.920> reason.<01:53:21.040> I<01:53:21.280> think<01:53:21.520> for<01:53:21.679> example,<01:53:22.159> first<01:53:22.639> that<01:53:22.880> neurons<01:53:23.360> do<01:53:23.520> not<01:53:23.679> exist<01:53:23.920> when<01:53:24.159> they're<01:53:24.320> not<01:53:24.480> perceived.

01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:29.119
So<01:53:25.119> I<01:53:25.280> have<01:53:25.360> no<01:53:25.520> neurons<01:53:26.000> right<01:53:26.159> now.<01:53:26.960> I'm<01:53:27.199> a<01:53:27.360> neuroscientist<01:53:27.840> and<01:53:28.000> I<01:53:28.159> have<01:53:28.239> no<01:53:28.400> neurons<01:53:28.719> right<01:53:28.880> now.

01:53:29.119 --> 01:53:34.000
However,<01:53:29.360> if<01:53:29.599> you<01:53:29.920> looked,<01:53:30.480> you<01:53:30.639> would<01:53:30.800> see<01:53:30.960> neurons<01:53:31.360> because<01:53:31.599> that's<01:53:31.920> what<01:53:32.080> you<01:53:32.239> render<01:53:32.639> in<01:53:32.880> your<01:53:33.040> headset<01:53:33.440> when<01:53:33.599> you<01:53:33.760> look.

01:53:34.000 --> 01:53:38.080
So,<01:53:34.239> neurons<01:53:34.639> are<01:53:34.800> things<01:53:34.960> that<01:53:35.119> you<01:53:35.280> render.<01:53:36.480> What<01:53:36.719> are<01:53:36.880> neurons?

01:53:38.080 --> 01:53:47.199
From<01:53:38.320> my<01:53:38.560> point<01:53:38.719> of<01:53:38.880> view,<01:53:39.520> neurons<01:53:40.480> are<01:53:40.719> the<01:53:40.960> headset<01:53:41.520> representation<01:53:43.199> of<01:53:43.440> how<01:53:43.599> the<01:53:43.840> headset<01:53:44.480> is<01:53:44.800> engineered.

01:53:47.199 --> 01:53:53.599
Okay?<01:53:48.560> They're<01:53:48.800> the<01:53:48.960> headset<01:53:49.440> representation<01:53:50.239> of<01:53:50.400> how<01:53:50.560> the<01:53:50.719> headset<01:53:51.119> itself<01:53:51.520> is<01:53:51.840> engineered.

01:53:53.599 --> 01:54:02.480
That<01:53:53.840> means<01:53:54.480> that<01:53:54.719> we<01:53:54.960> need<01:53:55.119> to<01:53:55.440> really<01:53:56.159> Understanding<01:53:56.800> the<01:53:57.040> 86<01:53:57.440> billion<01:53:57.679> neurons<01:53:57.920> and<01:53:58.159> trillions<01:53:58.400> of<01:53:58.560> synapses<01:53:59.840> is<01:54:00.159> just<01:54:00.560> understanding<01:54:01.040> the<01:54:01.199> headset<01:54:01.679> representation

01:54:02.480 --> 01:54:05.840
of<01:54:02.639> the<01:54:02.880> engineering.<01:54:03.679> We<01:54:03.840> now<01:54:04.080> have<01:54:04.159> to<01:54:04.320> reverse<01:54:04.719> engineer<01:54:05.119> that.

01:54:05.840 --> 01:54:13.520
What<01:54:06.080> is<01:54:06.239> this<01:54:06.639> brain<01:54:07.280> and<01:54:07.520> its<01:54:07.840> structure<01:54:08.400> telling<01:54:08.719> us<01:54:09.440> about<01:54:09.840> the<01:54:10.159> details<01:54:10.639> of<01:54:10.880> how<01:54:11.119> our<01:54:11.360> headset<01:54:11.840> is<01:54:12.080> being<01:54:12.320> built?

01:54:13.520 --> 01:54:19.040
So<01:54:14.320> neuroscience<01:54:15.360> is<01:54:15.760> much<01:54:16.000> much<01:54:16.239> harder<01:54:16.480> than<01:54:16.560> the<01:54:16.719> neuroscientists<01:54:17.440> understand<01:54:17.920> right<01:54:18.080> now.

01:54:19.040 --> 01:54:24.159
It's<01:54:19.840> it's<01:54:20.080> hard<01:54:20.239> enough<01:54:20.400> to<01:54:20.560> understand<01:54:20.800> 86<01:54:21.280> billion<01:54:21.440> neurons<01:54:21.679> and<01:54:21.840> trillions<01:54:22.080> of<01:54:22.400> that's<01:54:22.560> that's<01:54:22.639> that's<01:54:23.199> hard<01:54:23.360> enough.

01:54:24.159 --> 01:54:27.199
But<01:54:24.320> that's<01:54:24.560> just<01:54:24.719> the<01:54:24.880> first<01:54:25.040> baby<01:54:25.360> step.<01:54:25.599> Now<01:54:25.840> we<01:54:26.000> have<01:54:26.080> to<01:54:26.159> reverse<01:54:26.560> engineer<01:54:26.800> it.

01:54:27.199 --> 01:54:35.679
What<01:54:27.360> is<01:54:27.520> the<01:54:27.760> bigger,<01:54:28.320> more<01:54:28.639> complicated<01:54:29.199> world<01:54:29.599> outside<01:54:30.239> of<01:54:30.560> spacetime<01:54:31.520> that<01:54:31.840> is<01:54:32.000> being<01:54:32.320> compressed<01:54:32.800> down<01:54:33.040> into<01:54:33.280> a<01:54:33.440> headset<01:54:33.840> and<01:54:34.080> looks<01:54:34.320> like<01:54:34.400> the<01:54:34.639> 86<01:54:35.119> billion<01:54:35.360> neurons

01:54:35.679 --> 01:54:38.800
and<01:54:35.840> trillions<01:54:36.080> of<01:54:36.239> synapses?<01:54:36.880> And<01:54:37.119> why<01:54:37.280> does<01:54:37.440> it<01:54:37.599> look<01:54:37.679> like<01:54:37.840> these<01:54:38.080> neurons?

01:54:38.800 --> 01:54:46.320
What<01:54:39.119> story<01:54:39.440> can<01:54:39.599> we<01:54:39.840> tell<01:54:40.080> about<01:54:40.400> the<01:54:40.719> the<01:54:41.199> software<01:54:41.599> outside<01:54:41.920> of<01:54:42.080> the<01:54:42.239> space-time<01:54:42.719> headset<01:54:43.440> that<01:54:43.679> would<01:54:44.000> be<01:54:44.159> consistent<01:54:44.560> with<01:54:44.719> the<01:54:44.960> story<01:54:45.119> of<01:54:45.199> these<01:54:45.440> 86<01:54:45.840> billion<01:54:46.080> neurons

01:54:46.320 --> 01:54:48.480
and<01:54:46.480> trillions<01:54:46.719> of<01:54:46.880> synapses<01:54:47.360> inside<01:54:47.679> the<01:54:47.840> headset?

01:54:48.480 --> 01:54:54.719
Once<01:54:48.719> we<01:54:48.880> get<01:54:48.960> that<01:54:49.199> consistent,<01:54:49.679> once<01:54:50.000> we<01:54:50.159> have<01:54:50.239> that<01:54:50.639> story<01:54:50.960> consistent,<01:54:51.760> we<01:54:51.920> will<01:54:52.080> be<01:54:52.239> much<01:54:52.400> more<01:54:52.560> confident<01:54:52.800> that<01:54:53.040> we<01:54:53.199> understand<01:54:53.440> how<01:54:53.599> this<01:54:53.840> headset<01:54:54.239> is<01:54:54.400> wired

01:54:54.719 --> 01:55:02.639
together.<01:54:55.679> So<01:54:55.920> neuroscience<01:54:56.800> is<01:54:57.040> going<01:54:57.119> to<01:54:57.199> need<01:54:57.440> a<01:54:57.599> lot<01:54:57.760> more<01:54:57.920> funding<01:54:58.320> because<01:54:58.719> just<01:54:59.040> understanding<01:54:59.520> the<01:54:59.840> neurons<01:55:00.320> themselves<01:55:00.800> and<01:55:01.040> the<01:55:01.199> synapses<01:55:01.679> and<01:55:02.000> all<01:55:02.159> that

01:55:02.639 --> 01:55:05.760
the<01:55:02.880> visible<01:55:03.280> structure<01:55:04.080> is<01:55:04.480> the<01:55:04.800> beginning<01:55:05.199> of<01:55:05.360> the<01:55:05.520> work.

01:55:05.760 --> 01:55:09.679
It's<01:55:06.000> not<01:55:06.080> the<01:55:06.239> end<01:55:06.400> of<01:55:06.480> the<01:55:06.639> work.

01:55:09.679 --> 01:55:13.604
So<01:55:09.920> more<01:55:10.159> money<01:55:10.320> for<01:55:10.480> neuroscience<01:55:11.639> [laughter]<01:55:12.400> for<01:55:12.560> sure.

01:55:13.604 --> 01:55:20.400
[snorts]<01:55:15.119> Um,

01:55:20.400 --> 01:55:28.800
I<01:55:20.719> wanted<01:55:20.880> to<01:55:21.360> touch<01:55:21.679> again<01:55:22.000> on<01:55:22.560> I<01:55:22.800> know<01:55:22.960> you<01:55:23.199> talked<01:55:23.440> a<01:55:23.599> little<01:55:23.679> bit<01:55:23.840> about<01:55:24.960> when<01:55:25.199> we<01:55:25.440> were<01:55:25.599> talking<01:55:25.840> about<01:55:26.320> um<01:55:27.119> the<01:55:27.520> experiments<01:55:28.080> that<01:55:28.239> are<01:55:28.400> currently

01:55:28.800 --> 01:55:33.679
happening<01:55:29.040> with<01:55:29.360> people<01:55:29.599> who<01:55:29.840> go<01:55:30.000> through<01:55:30.239> brain<01:55:30.560> damage<01:55:31.199> and<01:55:31.599> the<01:55:32.320> what<01:55:32.560> happens<01:55:32.800> in<01:55:33.040> their<01:55:33.280> brain.

01:55:33.679 --> 01:55:41.679
So<01:55:33.840> I<01:55:34.080> think<01:55:34.800> trying<01:55:35.040> to<01:55:35.119> play<01:55:35.280> the<01:55:35.440> devil's<01:55:35.840> advocate<01:55:36.560> a<01:55:36.800> neuroscientist<01:55:37.360> or<01:55:37.520> a<01:55:37.679> brain<01:55:37.920> surgeon<01:55:38.239> might<01:55:38.560> say<01:55:38.719> that<01:55:39.119> um<01:55:39.440> if<01:55:39.679> consciousness<01:55:40.159> is<01:55:40.400> fundamental<01:55:41.199> then<01:55:41.440> how

01:55:41.679 --> 01:55:49.920
come<01:55:41.840> a<01:55:42.080> brain<01:55:42.400> damage<01:55:42.719> is<01:55:43.280> has<01:55:43.599> so<01:55:43.840> much<01:55:44.000> power<01:55:44.320> to<01:55:44.560> change<01:55:44.800> someone's<01:55:45.199> personality<01:55:45.840> someone's<01:55:46.239> memory<01:55:46.719> someone's<01:55:47.040> entire<01:55:47.520> life<01:55:48.480> right<01:55:49.520> and<01:55:49.760> that

01:55:49.920 --> 01:55:56.960
would<01:55:50.080> be<01:55:50.239> that<01:55:50.400> would<01:55:50.560> argue<01:55:50.800> that<01:55:51.119> you<01:55:52.159> somehow<01:55:52.639> the<01:55:52.880> brain<01:55:53.119> if<01:55:53.280> it's<01:55:53.520> creating<01:55:53.760> the<01:55:54.000> conscious<01:55:54.320> experiences<01:55:54.800> when<01:55:54.960> you<01:55:55.040> damage<01:55:55.280> the<01:55:55.520> brain<01:55:55.760> you<01:55:56.000> damage<01:55:56.400> the<01:55:56.719> ability

01:55:56.960 --> 01:56:02.960
to<01:55:57.119> create<01:55:57.280> those<01:55:57.520> conscious<01:55:57.840> experiences<01:55:58.239> and<01:55:58.320> so<01:55:58.480> you<01:55:58.639> could<01:55:58.719> argue<01:55:59.119> that<01:55:59.360> way<01:56:00.080> on<01:56:00.239> the<01:56:00.400> other<01:56:00.480> hand<01:56:00.719> you<01:56:00.880> know<01:56:01.040> there<01:56:01.199> are<01:56:01.360> some<01:56:01.520> who<01:56:01.679> say<01:56:01.920> this<01:56:02.000> is<01:56:02.239> more<01:56:02.400> like<01:56:02.480> a<01:56:02.639> radio

01:56:02.960 --> 01:56:06.719
receiver<01:56:03.360> right?<01:56:03.679> That<01:56:03.920> you<01:56:04.080> have<01:56:04.239> a<01:56:04.480> signal<01:56:04.800> that's<01:56:05.119> that's<01:56:05.440> not<01:56:05.599> being<01:56:05.840> created<01:56:06.080> by<01:56:06.239> the<01:56:06.400> radio.

01:56:06.719 --> 01:56:11.440
It's<01:56:06.880> just<01:56:07.040> being<01:56:07.280> picked<01:56:07.440> up<01:56:07.599> by<01:56:07.679> the<01:56:07.840> radio.<01:56:08.080> If<01:56:08.239> you<01:56:08.320> damage<01:56:08.639> the<01:56:09.520> receiver,<01:56:10.239> you<01:56:10.400> damage<01:56:10.719> the<01:56:10.880> radio.

01:56:11.440 --> 01:56:13.440
Um,<01:56:11.760> in<01:56:11.920> some<01:56:12.080> sense,<01:56:12.239> you<01:56:12.400> haven't<01:56:12.639> damaged<01:56:12.960> the<01:56:13.119> signal.

01:56:13.440 --> 01:56:18.159
It's<01:56:13.679> still<01:56:14.000> still<01:56:14.320> there,<01:56:14.560> but<01:56:14.800> you<01:56:15.040> can<01:56:15.199> no<01:56:15.440> longer<01:56:15.679> perceive<01:56:16.000> it.

01:56:18.159 --> 01:56:24.800
So,<01:56:18.320> it's<01:56:18.560> closer<01:56:18.800> to<01:56:18.960> that,<01:56:19.199> I<01:56:19.360> would<01:56:19.520> say,<01:56:19.920> to<01:56:20.159> the<01:56:20.400> radio,<01:56:20.639> but<01:56:20.960> but<01:56:21.119> I<01:56:21.280> think<01:56:21.440> even<01:56:21.599> the<01:56:21.760> radio<01:56:22.480> analogy<01:56:22.960> isn't<01:56:23.599> isn't<01:56:24.239> good<01:56:24.480> enough.

01:56:24.800 --> 01:56:29.840
It's<01:56:25.199> it<01:56:25.440> really<01:56:25.679> is<01:56:25.920> more<01:56:26.400> the<01:56:26.639> headset<01:56:26.960> is<01:56:27.199> better<01:56:27.360> than<01:56:27.520> the<01:56:27.760> radio<01:56:28.080> receiver<01:56:28.800> analogy.

01:56:29.840 --> 01:56:39.440
There<01:56:30.159> there<01:56:30.400> it<01:56:30.560> is<01:56:30.800> that<01:56:31.199> the<01:56:32.800> uh<01:56:33.040> if<01:56:35.199> if<01:56:35.440> I'm<01:56:35.679> looking<01:56:35.920> at<01:56:36.480> your<01:56:36.800> avatar

01:56:39.440 --> 01:56:42.400
and

01:56:42.400 --> 01:56:50.719
my<01:56:42.719> headset<01:56:44.560> gets<01:56:44.800> damaged<01:56:45.199> in<01:56:45.360> such<01:56:45.440> a<01:56:45.599> way<01:56:45.679> that<01:56:46.239> I'm<01:56:46.880> not<01:56:47.040> able<01:56:47.199> to<01:56:47.360> render<01:56:47.679> your<01:56:47.840> avatar<01:56:48.239> very<01:56:48.480> well<01:56:48.639> or<01:56:48.719> or<01:56:48.800> or<01:56:49.040> or<01:56:49.840> to<01:56:50.080> act<01:56:50.320> very<01:56:50.560> well

01:56:50.719 --> 01:56:59.119
in<01:56:50.960> my<01:56:51.119> own<01:56:51.679> my<01:56:52.000> own<01:56:52.159> headset<01:56:53.920> then<01:56:55.119> um<01:56:56.880> that<01:56:57.119> doesn't<01:56:57.360> mean<01:56:57.440> that<01:56:57.599> my<01:56:57.760> consciousness<01:56:58.159> itself<01:56:58.480> has<01:56:58.639> been<01:56:58.800> damaged.

01:56:59.119 --> 01:57:02.719
It<01:56:59.280> just<01:56:59.440> means<01:56:59.520> that<01:56:59.679> my<01:57:00.000> there's<01:57:00.320> been<01:57:00.480> damage<01:57:00.880> in<01:57:01.199> the<01:57:01.440> rendering<01:57:01.920> in<01:57:02.159> the<01:57:02.320> headset.

01:57:02.719 --> 01:57:10.960
And<01:57:02.880> that's<01:57:03.119> so<01:57:03.360> that<01:57:03.520> would<01:57:03.599> be<01:57:03.920> so<01:57:04.400> so<01:57:04.719> if<01:57:04.880> you're<01:57:05.040> a<01:57:05.199> physicist,<01:57:05.599> you're<01:57:05.840> going<01:57:05.920> to<01:57:06.080> interpret<01:57:06.960> the<01:57:07.440> brain<01:57:07.760> damage<01:57:08.080> and<01:57:08.320> loss<01:57:08.560> of<01:57:09.520> cognitive<01:57:10.080> function<01:57:10.400> as<01:57:10.719> the

01:57:10.960 --> 01:57:17.119
brain<01:57:11.199> causes<01:57:11.599> the<01:57:11.840> cognitive<01:57:12.239> function.<01:57:12.800> Whereas<01:57:13.119> if<01:57:13.280> you<01:57:13.360> take<01:57:13.520> the<01:57:13.679> headset<01:57:14.000> point<01:57:14.080> of<01:57:14.239> view<01:57:14.320> and<01:57:14.400> you<01:57:14.480> say<01:57:14.639> consciousness<01:57:15.040> is<01:57:15.199> fundamental,<01:57:16.000> then<01:57:16.320> damage<01:57:16.719> to<01:57:16.960> the

01:57:17.119 --> 01:57:19.360
brain<01:57:17.360> is<01:57:17.599> really<01:57:18.080> so<01:57:18.320> you<01:57:18.480> damage<01:57:18.800> the<01:57:18.960> headset.

01:57:19.360 --> 01:57:23.679
So<01:57:19.520> you<01:57:19.599> do<01:57:19.840> not<01:57:20.000> have<01:57:20.320> access<01:57:20.639> to<01:57:20.800> that<01:57:21.040> cognitive<01:57:21.520> function<01:57:21.760> which<01:57:22.000> was<01:57:22.159> there<01:57:22.400> already.

01:57:23.679 --> 01:57:27.119
And<01:57:24.080> the<01:57:24.239> cognitive<01:57:24.560> function<01:57:24.800> is<01:57:25.199> consciousness<01:57:25.760> is<01:57:25.920> not<01:57:26.080> damaged<01:57:26.480> at<01:57:26.639> all.

01:57:27.119 --> 01:57:30.400
It's<01:57:27.360> your<01:57:27.679> act<01:57:28.000> your<01:57:28.239> ability<01:57:28.480> to<01:57:28.639> access<01:57:28.960> it<01:57:29.119> through<01:57:29.280> the<01:57:29.440> headset.

01:57:30.400 --> 01:57:35.840
So,<01:57:30.880> and<01:57:31.119> which<01:57:31.360> one<01:57:31.440> is<01:57:31.679> right?<01:57:32.000> Well,<01:57:32.560> um,<01:57:32.639> whichever<01:57:32.960> one<01:57:33.119> has<01:57:33.280> the<01:57:33.440> greater<01:57:33.679> explanatory<01:57:34.239> power<01:57:34.480> is<01:57:34.639> the<01:57:34.800> one<01:57:34.880> I'm<01:57:35.040> going<01:57:35.119> to<01:57:35.199> go<01:57:35.360> with.

01:57:35.840 --> 01:57:42.000
And<01:57:36.080> right<01:57:36.239> now,<01:57:36.400> if<01:57:36.560> you<01:57:36.719> say<01:57:36.880> the<01:57:37.119> brain<01:57:37.360> causes<01:57:37.679> the<01:57:37.920> conscious<01:57:38.239> experiences,<01:57:38.719> and<01:57:38.960> you<01:57:39.119> can't<01:57:39.280> explain<01:57:39.520> a<01:57:39.760> single<01:57:39.920> conscious<01:57:40.320> experience,<01:57:40.880> you<01:57:41.119> have<01:57:41.199> no<01:57:41.360> explanatory

01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:50.080
power<01:57:42.239> whatsoever.<01:57:44.400> But<01:57:44.639> until<01:57:44.880> I<01:57:45.119> actually<01:57:45.360> can<01:57:45.520> show<01:57:45.679> how<01:57:45.840> the<01:57:45.920> headset<01:57:46.320> is<01:57:46.480> built<01:57:47.199> by<01:57:47.440> my<01:57:47.599> nine<01:57:47.920> conjectures,<01:57:49.040> the<01:57:49.280> finger<01:57:49.520> can<01:57:49.679> be<01:57:49.760> pointed<01:57:50.000> at

01:57:50.080 --> 01:57:57.440
me.<01:57:50.239> So,<01:57:50.320> we're<01:57:50.480> right<01:57:50.560> at<01:57:50.719> a<01:57:50.880> stalemate<01:57:51.280> right<01:57:51.520> now.<01:57:52.159> Um,<01:57:52.560> but<01:57:52.800> I<01:57:53.040> think<01:57:53.280> I'll<01:57:53.679> prove<01:57:53.920> my<01:57:54.080> conjectures<01:57:54.800> and<01:57:55.119> I<01:57:55.360> I<01:57:55.679> would<01:57:55.760> bet<01:57:56.000> good<01:57:56.239> money<01:57:56.480> that<01:57:56.639> they'll<01:57:56.880> never<01:57:57.119> get<01:57:57.199> a

01:57:57.440 --> 01:58:00.639
single<01:57:57.679> conscious<01:57:58.080> experience<01:57:58.560> from<01:57:59.520> physics.

01:58:00.639 --> 01:58:08.800
And<01:58:00.719> and<01:58:01.040> Donald,<01:58:01.520> you<01:58:01.599> know,<01:58:01.760> something<01:58:02.080> fascinating<01:58:02.560> to<01:58:02.719> me<01:58:02.880> is<01:58:03.119> is<01:58:03.440> that<01:58:03.920> a<01:58:04.159> lot<01:58:04.239> of<01:58:04.400> what<01:58:04.639> you're<01:58:04.880> arriving<01:58:05.280> at<01:58:05.760> scientifically,<01:58:06.560> it<01:58:06.800> sounds<01:58:07.679> it<01:58:08.000> sounds<01:58:08.239> strangely

01:58:08.800 --> 01:58:13.520
similar<01:58:09.119> to<01:58:09.360> what<01:58:09.599> ancient<01:58:10.080> spiritual<01:58:11.040> traditions<01:58:11.440> have<01:58:11.599> been<01:58:11.760> saying<01:58:11.920> for<01:58:12.159> thousands<01:58:12.480> of<01:58:12.639> years.

01:58:13.520 --> 01:58:16.080
You<01:58:13.679> know,<01:58:13.920> that<01:58:14.239> separation<01:58:14.800> is<01:58:15.040> an<01:58:15.360> illusion.

01:58:16.080 --> 01:58:18.719
Consciousness<01:58:16.560> is<01:58:16.800> fundamental<01:58:17.360> and<01:58:17.599> reality<01:58:17.920> isn't<01:58:18.239> what<01:58:18.320> it<01:58:18.480> seems.

01:58:18.719 --> 01:58:27.119
I<01:58:18.960> mean<01:58:19.280> yes<01:58:19.679> in<01:58:19.920> Christianity<01:58:20.400> the<01:58:20.560> holy<01:58:20.800> bible<01:58:21.119> in<01:58:21.360> him<01:58:21.520> we<01:58:21.760> live<01:58:21.920> and<01:58:22.159> move<01:58:22.560> and<01:58:22.800> have<01:58:23.040> our<01:58:23.280> being<01:58:23.760> right<01:58:24.239> Hinduismita<01:58:26.000> the<01:58:26.320> wise<01:58:26.639> see<01:58:26.880> the

01:58:27.119 --> 01:58:35.360
same<01:58:27.280> reality<01:58:27.599> in<01:58:27.840> all<01:58:28.080> beings<01:58:28.880> um<01:58:31.119> you<01:58:31.360> are<01:58:31.520> that<01:58:32.719> in<01:58:32.960> Islam<01:58:33.520> Quran<01:58:34.000> wherever<01:58:34.320> you<01:58:34.480> turn<01:58:34.800> there<01:58:34.880> is<01:58:35.040> the<01:58:35.199> face

01:58:35.360 --> 01:58:43.280
of<01:58:35.520> god<01:58:35.760> and<01:58:35.920> sikism<01:58:36.400> the<01:58:36.560> one<01:58:36.800> light<01:58:37.040> pervades<01:58:37.440> all<01:58:37.679> creation<01:58:38.320> yes<01:58:39.119> what<01:58:39.360> would<01:58:39.599> you<01:58:39.840> say<01:58:40.400> and<01:58:40.719> what<01:58:40.880> do<01:58:41.040> you<01:58:41.199> think<01:58:41.360> about<01:58:41.520> these<01:58:41.840> parallels<01:58:42.400> between<01:58:42.800> science

01:58:43.280 --> 01:58:51.920
and<01:58:43.599> spirituality<01:58:45.679> well<01:58:46.719> they<01:58:46.960> do<01:58:47.199> at<01:58:47.440> the<01:58:47.599> very<01:58:47.920> art<01:58:48.639> they<01:58:48.880> agree<01:58:49.360> across<01:58:49.840> all<01:58:50.080> the<01:58:50.320> spiritual<01:58:50.800> traditions.

01:58:51.920 --> 01:59:00.480
Of<01:58:52.159> course<01:58:52.880> over<01:58:53.199> time<01:58:53.440> the<01:58:53.599> the<01:58:54.000> followers<01:58:55.360> get<01:58:55.840> stuck<01:58:56.080> in<01:58:56.320> various<01:58:56.639> little<01:58:56.960> pity<01:58:57.840> you<01:58:58.000> know<01:58:59.119> you<01:58:59.280> know<01:59:00.000> small

01:59:00.480 --> 01:59:07.520
petty<01:59:01.679> fights<01:59:02.000> and<01:59:02.159> so<01:59:02.320> forth<01:59:02.560> and<01:59:02.800> and<01:59:02.880> and<01:59:03.360> it's<01:59:03.520> and<01:59:03.760> it's<01:59:03.920> sad<01:59:04.239> but<01:59:04.480> when<01:59:04.639> you<01:59:04.800> go<01:59:04.880> to<01:59:05.040> the<01:59:05.199> heart<01:59:05.679> at<01:59:05.840> the<01:59:06.000> origin<01:59:06.480> then<01:59:06.719> you're<01:59:06.880> absolutely<01:59:07.199> right.

01:59:07.520 --> 01:59:15.840
It<01:59:07.679> really<01:59:07.840> is<01:59:08.159> we're<01:59:08.320> all<01:59:08.560> one<01:59:08.800> and<01:59:09.119> love<01:59:09.440> basically<01:59:10.800> the<01:59:10.960> the<01:59:11.280> bottom<01:59:11.520> line<01:59:11.679> is<01:59:11.840> love<01:59:12.080> your<01:59:12.159> neighbor<01:59:12.400> as<01:59:12.639> yourself<01:59:12.960> because<01:59:13.199> your<01:59:13.440> neighbor<01:59:13.599> is<01:59:13.840> yourself<01:59:14.719> and

01:59:15.840 --> 01:59:18.320
that's<01:59:16.159> all<01:59:16.239> you<01:59:16.400> need<01:59:16.480> to<01:59:16.639> say.<01:59:16.719> Actually,<01:59:17.040> you<01:59:17.119> don't<01:59:17.280> need<01:59:17.360> to<01:59:17.440> say<01:59:17.599> anything<01:59:17.760> more<01:59:17.920> than<01:59:18.080> that.

01:59:18.320 --> 01:59:23.920
That<01:59:18.480> that's<01:59:18.719> the<01:59:18.880> heart<01:59:19.280> of<01:59:19.520> all<01:59:19.679> religion.<01:59:20.159> And<01:59:20.560> if<01:59:20.800> you<01:59:20.960> do<01:59:21.119> that,<01:59:21.760> everything<01:59:22.080> else<01:59:22.719> falls<01:59:23.040> into<01:59:23.360> place.

01:59:23.920 --> 01:59:32.320
I<01:59:24.159> think<01:59:24.960> one<01:59:26.239> one<01:59:26.560> Christian<01:59:27.679> person's<01:59:28.239> I<01:59:28.400> forgot<01:59:28.719> the<01:59:28.960> famous<01:59:29.360> guy<01:59:29.599> said,<01:59:30.239> you<01:59:30.400> know,<01:59:31.280> love<01:59:31.520> and<01:59:31.679> do<01:59:31.840> whatever<01:59:32.080> you

01:59:32.320 --> 01:59:36.000
want.<01:59:34.320> Basically,<01:59:34.560> if<01:59:34.719> you<01:59:34.800> love,<01:59:35.040> you<01:59:35.199> can<01:59:35.280> do<01:59:35.440> whatever<01:59:35.599> you<01:59:35.760> want.

01:59:36.000 --> 01:59:41.119
So,<01:59:36.239> so<01:59:36.800> yeah.<01:59:37.199> So,<01:59:37.360> there<01:59:37.679> there's<01:59:38.080> a<01:59:38.320> fundamental<01:59:39.599> unity<01:59:40.400> there.

01:59:41.119 --> 01:59:49.920
Now<01:59:41.360> in<01:59:41.520> in<01:59:41.840> it's<01:59:42.159> interesting<01:59:42.880> um<01:59:43.760> they'll<01:59:44.080> also<01:59:44.400> say<01:59:44.719> that<01:59:45.440> the<01:59:46.560> the<01:59:46.880> one<01:59:47.280> consciousness<01:59:49.360> transcends

01:59:49.920 --> 01:59:53.119
any<01:59:50.159> description.<01:59:51.040> Yeah.<01:59:51.280> Right.<01:59:52.080> And<01:59:52.320> I<01:59:52.480> I<01:59:52.800> agree.

01:59:53.119 --> 01:59:57.040
I<01:59:53.360> think<01:59:53.520> I<01:59:53.679> mean<01:59:53.760> I<01:59:53.920> I<01:59:54.000> I<01:59:54.400> meditate<01:59:54.800> for<01:59:54.880> example<01:59:55.119> and<01:59:55.360> so<01:59:55.440> I<01:59:55.599> let<01:59:55.760> go<01:59:55.920> of<01:59:56.080> conscious<01:59:56.480> experiences.

01:59:57.040 --> 01:59:59.360
I<01:59:57.520> spend<01:59:57.840> time<01:59:58.000> every<01:59:58.159> day<01:59:58.400> doing<01:59:58.639> that.

01:59:59.360 --> 02:00:06.239
And<01:59:59.920> I<02:00:00.159> think<02:00:00.239> that's<02:00:00.480> where<02:00:00.639> a<02:00:00.800> lot<02:00:00.880> of<02:00:01.280> the<02:00:01.520> best<02:00:01.760> insights<02:00:02.080> come<02:00:02.239> is<02:00:02.480> when<02:00:02.639> you<02:00:02.960> let<02:00:03.199> go<02:00:03.360> of<02:00:03.520> of<02:00:03.760> thought<02:00:04.000> and<02:00:04.159> and<02:00:04.400> are<02:00:04.560> just<02:00:05.040> silent.

02:00:06.239 --> 02:00:14.639
And<02:00:06.480> and<02:00:06.880> so<02:00:07.599> ultimately<02:00:08.639> all<02:00:08.880> of<02:00:09.119> science<02:00:09.760> is<02:00:10.320> description<02:00:11.920> and<02:00:12.639> the<02:00:12.880> one<02:00:13.119> consciousness<02:00:13.760> transcends<02:00:14.320> any

02:00:14.639 --> 02:00:24.960
description.<02:00:16.800> And<02:00:17.119> so<02:00:17.520> ultimately<02:00:17.920> all<02:00:18.159> science<02:00:18.560> can<02:00:18.800> do<02:00:19.119> is<02:00:19.679> give<02:00:19.920> us<02:00:22.159> just<02:00:22.560> perspectives.

02:00:24.960 --> 02:00:31.280
At<02:00:25.040> least<02:00:25.280> we<02:00:25.440> can<02:00:25.599> be<02:00:25.679> consistent.<02:00:26.639> Whatever<02:00:27.119> the<02:00:27.520> final<02:00:27.840> truth<02:00:28.080> about<02:00:28.239> the<02:00:28.400> one<02:00:28.639> is<02:00:29.040> the<02:00:29.360> the<02:00:29.599> source,<02:00:30.080> whatever<02:00:30.400> you<02:00:30.480> want<02:00:30.560> to<02:00:30.639> call<02:00:30.719> it.

02:00:31.280 --> 02:00:37.920
Um<02:00:31.840> what<02:00:32.080> science<02:00:32.400> can<02:00:32.560> do<02:00:32.639> is<02:00:32.880> say<02:00:33.199> here's<02:00:33.440> a<02:00:33.679> perspective<02:00:34.080> and<02:00:34.239> and<02:00:34.560> we<02:00:34.719> can't<02:00:34.880> say<02:00:35.119> this<02:00:35.440> this<02:00:35.599> is<02:00:35.760> not<02:00:35.920> the<02:00:36.080> only<02:00:36.320> perspective<02:00:36.719> it's<02:00:36.880> not<02:00:36.960> the<02:00:37.199> final<02:00:37.360> perspective

02:00:37.920 --> 02:00:46.880
it's<02:00:38.159> a<02:00:38.480> perspective<02:00:39.040> and<02:00:39.280> it's<02:00:39.520> a<02:00:39.760> consistent<02:00:40.239> perspective<02:00:41.360> that's<02:00:41.599> what<02:00:41.760> what<02:00:42.000> science<02:00:42.320> can<02:00:42.480> do<02:00:43.360> and<02:00:43.520> that<02:00:43.840> and<02:00:44.000> that's<02:00:44.239> useful<02:00:44.639> many<02:00:44.880> of<02:00:45.040> the<02:00:45.760> when<02:00:46.400> religions

02:00:46.880 --> 02:00:53.599
go<02:00:47.119> beyond<02:00:47.679> love<02:00:47.920> your<02:00:48.080> neighbor<02:00:48.239> as<02:00:48.400> yourself<02:00:48.639> and<02:00:48.800> you<02:00:48.880> start<02:00:49.040> doing<02:00:49.199> other<02:00:49.440> stuff<02:00:50.159> they<02:00:50.880> usually<02:00:51.280> slip<02:00:51.520> into<02:00:51.760> inconsistency<02:00:52.480> and<02:00:52.719> they<02:00:52.880> contradict<02:00:53.280> each<02:00:53.520> other

02:00:53.599 --> 02:00:56.800
and<02:00:53.840> so<02:00:54.000> forth<02:00:54.159> so<02:00:54.320> it's<02:00:54.480> it<02:00:54.719> and<02:00:54.960> then<02:00:55.040> you<02:00:55.199> get<02:00:55.360> fighting<02:00:55.599> and<02:00:55.679> and<02:00:56.000> all<02:00:56.159> that<02:00:56.320> nonsense.

02:00:56.800 --> 02:01:06.159
So<02:00:57.160> science<02:00:57.520> has<02:00:57.880> the<02:00:58.240> at<02:00:58.600> least<02:00:58.960> the<02:00:59.320> the<02:00:59.680> guard<02:01:00.040> rails<02:01:00.400> of<02:01:00.760> consistency<02:01:01.119> and<02:01:01.479> that's<02:01:01.839> the<02:01:02.199> the<02:01:02.559> power<02:01:02.919> of<02:01:03.279> bringing<02:01:03.639> science<02:01:03.999> into<02:01:04.359> spiritual<02:01:04.719> discussions.

02:01:06.159 --> 02:01:10.239
Um<02:01:06.480> not<02:01:06.639> not<02:01:06.960> to<02:01:07.199> desecate<02:01:08.000> spirituality<02:01:08.639> into<02:01:08.960> science.

02:01:10.239 --> 02:01:16.480
Spirituality<02:01:10.880> transcends<02:01:11.440> science<02:01:11.760> completely<02:01:12.239> but<02:01:12.480> if<02:01:12.639> you're<02:01:12.800> going<02:01:12.880> to<02:01:13.040> talk<02:01:13.360> so<02:01:13.599> so<02:01:14.320> says<02:01:14.800> the<02:01:14.960> language<02:01:15.280> of<02:01:15.440> God<02:01:15.599> is<02:01:15.840> is<02:01:16.080> silence.

02:01:16.480 --> 02:01:19.920
All<02:01:16.639> else<02:01:16.800> is<02:01:17.040> poor<02:01:17.280> translation.

02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:24.000
And<02:01:20.159> if<02:01:20.320> you<02:01:20.639> stop<02:01:21.040> with<02:01:21.280> that<02:01:21.520> and<02:01:21.760> don't<02:01:21.920> say<02:01:22.080> another<02:01:22.400> word<02:01:22.719> I'm<02:01:22.960> good.

02:01:24.000 --> 02:01:27.119
But<02:01:24.400> religions<02:01:24.880> do<02:01:25.040> not<02:01:25.199> do<02:01:25.360> that.<02:01:25.840> they<02:01:26.159> start<02:01:26.480> talking.

02:01:27.119 --> 02:01:33.280
So<02:01:27.360> then<02:01:27.599> I<02:01:27.840> say<02:01:28.080> if<02:01:28.239> you're<02:01:28.400> going<02:01:28.560> to<02:01:28.800> talk<02:01:29.679> at<02:01:29.760> least<02:01:30.880> force<02:01:31.280> yourself<02:01:31.599> to<02:01:31.760> be<02:01:32.000> consistent.

02:01:33.280 --> 02:01:39.360
Absolutely<02:01:33.760> force<02:01:34.159> yourself<02:01:34.639> to<02:01:34.800> be<02:01:34.960> consistent<02:01:35.280> because<02:01:35.440> if<02:01:35.599> you're<02:01:35.679> not<02:01:35.840> consistent<02:01:36.480> then<02:01:36.639> you<02:01:36.800> can<02:01:37.040> say<02:01:37.199> anything<02:01:37.840> and<02:01:38.080> then<02:01:38.239> you<02:01:38.400> do<02:01:38.560> say<02:01:38.719> anything<02:01:38.960> and<02:01:39.199> then

02:01:39.360 --> 02:01:42.400
you<02:01:39.520> start<02:01:39.679> fighting<02:01:40.320> because<02:01:40.560> you're<02:01:40.800> saying<02:01:41.040> contradictory<02:01:41.760> things.

02:01:42.400 --> 02:01:44.639
So<02:01:42.639> we<02:01:42.880> have<02:01:43.040> to<02:01:43.199> have<02:01:43.679> consistency<02:01:44.320> there.

02:01:44.639 --> 02:01:49.599
But<02:01:44.880> I<02:01:45.040> think<02:01:45.119> that<02:01:45.360> the<02:01:45.520> trace<02:01:45.920> logic

02:01:49.599 --> 02:01:57.360
is<02:01:49.920> all<02:01:50.159> these<02:01:50.400> different<02:01:52.639> boolean<02:01:53.119> algebras<02:01:53.920> are<02:01:54.239> different<02:01:54.639> consistent<02:01:55.280> perspectives<02:01:55.920> of<02:01:56.159> the<02:01:56.320> one<02:01:56.639> consciousness.

02:01:57.360 --> 02:02:05.360
That's<02:01:57.599> what<02:01:57.760> it<02:01:57.920> is.<02:01:58.880> So<02:01:59.199> here<02:01:59.679> each<02:01:59.840> boolean<02:02:00.239> algebra<02:02:01.280> is<02:02:01.599> a<02:02:01.840> consistent<02:02:02.400> perspective<02:02:03.040> but<02:02:03.280> there's<02:02:03.440> an<02:02:03.520> infinite<02:02:03.920> number<02:02:04.080> of<02:02:04.159> them<02:02:04.320> in<02:02:04.480> the<02:02:04.639> trace<02:02:04.960> logic.

02:02:05.360 --> 02:02:07.679
So<02:02:05.760> so<02:02:05.920> I'm<02:02:06.080> not<02:02:06.159> saying<02:02:06.320> the<02:02:06.480> trace<02:02:06.639> logic<02:02:06.960> is<02:02:07.040> the<02:02:07.199> final<02:02:07.360> thing.

02:02:07.679 --> 02:02:16.320
just<02:02:08.000> shows<02:02:08.239> you<02:02:08.880> that<02:02:09.119> there<02:02:09.360> is<02:02:09.520> a<02:02:09.679> way<02:02:09.840> of<02:02:10.560> acknowledging<02:02:11.520> that<02:02:11.840> there<02:02:12.080> is<02:02:14.159> the<02:02:14.400> one<02:02:14.639> consciousness<02:02:15.199> that<02:02:15.520> transcends<02:02:16.000> any

02:02:16.320 --> 02:02:22.400
description.<02:02:17.040> But<02:02:17.199> it<02:02:17.440> says<02:02:17.599> if<02:02:17.840> you<02:02:18.000> want<02:02:18.080> to<02:02:18.159> talk<02:02:18.320> about<02:02:18.560> descriptions<02:02:19.040> and<02:02:19.199> you<02:02:19.360> want<02:02:19.440> to<02:02:19.599> be<02:02:19.760> consistent<02:02:20.480> and<02:02:20.719> you<02:02:20.880> want<02:02:21.040> to<02:02:21.119> allow<02:02:21.440> for<02:02:21.599> all<02:02:21.679> the<02:02:21.840> different<02:02:22.000> infinite

02:02:22.400 --> 02:02:24.880
perspectives,<02:02:22.960> the<02:02:23.119> trace<02:02:23.440> logic<02:02:23.679> does<02:02:23.840> it<02:02:23.920> all<02:02:24.080> at<02:02:24.159> once.

02:02:24.880 --> 02:02:32.560
It<02:02:25.040> gives<02:02:25.199> you<02:02:25.280> an<02:02:25.440> infinite<02:02:25.760> number<02:02:25.920> of<02:02:26.239> of<02:02:27.520> mutually<02:02:28.000> inconsistent<02:02:28.639> perspectives,<02:02:29.360> but<02:02:29.599> within<02:02:30.000> each<02:02:30.159> perspective,<02:02:30.639> you<02:02:30.800> have<02:02:30.880> a<02:02:31.119> consistent<02:02:31.599> story<02:02:32.000> about<02:02:32.320> the

02:02:32.560 --> 02:02:38.320
one.<02:02:32.880> But<02:02:33.040> you<02:02:33.199> need<02:02:33.280> all<02:02:33.440> of<02:02:33.520> them<02:02:33.679> in<02:02:34.000> some<02:02:34.159> sense<02:02:34.719> as<02:02:35.040> the<02:02:35.280> best<02:02:35.760> way<02:02:36.000> of<02:02:36.239> having<02:02:36.480> stories<02:02:37.280> relate<02:02:37.679> to<02:02:37.920> the<02:02:38.080> one.

02:02:38.320 --> 02:02:41.280
But<02:02:38.400> the<02:02:38.560> one<02:02:38.719> transcends<02:02:39.920> them<02:02:40.159> all.

02:02:41.280 --> 02:02:48.719
Um<02:02:42.560> and<02:02:43.119> but<02:02:43.360> the<02:02:43.599> one<02:02:45.520> is<02:02:45.760> not<02:02:46.400> far<02:02:46.719> off<02:02:46.880> in<02:02:47.119> a<02:02:47.199> way.

02:02:48.719 --> 02:02:54.320
The<02:02:49.040> one<02:02:49.679> all<02:02:49.840> you<02:02:49.920> have<02:02:50.000> to<02:02:50.159> do<02:02:50.239> to<02:02:50.480> know<02:02:50.639> the<02:02:50.800> one<02:02:51.360> I<02:02:51.599> can<02:02:51.679> point<02:02:51.840> to<02:02:52.000> it<02:02:52.239> by<02:02:53.040> ostensive<02:02:53.679> definition.

02:02:54.320 --> 02:02:57.360
So<02:02:55.040> you<02:02:55.280> guys<02:02:55.440> know<02:02:55.599> what<02:02:55.679> extensive<02:02:56.159> definition<02:02:56.480> is.

02:02:57.360 --> 02:03:05.520
I'll<02:02:57.599> just<02:02:58.239> say,<02:02:58.719> you<02:02:58.880> know,<02:02:59.199> when<02:02:59.520> at<02:02:59.760> a<02:02:59.920> certain<02:03:00.159> age<02:03:00.320> when<02:03:00.560> a<02:03:00.719> child<02:03:01.280> is<02:03:01.520> having<02:03:01.760> to<02:03:01.920> learn<02:03:02.159> words,<02:03:02.560> like<02:03:02.800> around<02:03:03.119> 18<02:03:03.440> months<02:03:03.679> or<02:03:03.920> something<02:03:04.080> like<02:03:04.239> that,<02:03:05.119> what<02:03:05.360> the

02:03:05.520 --> 02:03:11.520
mother<02:03:06.239> or<02:03:06.480> father<02:03:06.800> does<02:03:07.040> is<02:03:08.159> just<02:03:08.400> to<02:03:08.560> point<02:03:08.719> and<02:03:08.960> say,<02:03:09.040> "Oh,<02:03:09.360> that's<02:03:09.599> a<02:03:09.679> cup<02:03:09.920> or<02:03:10.080> that's<02:03:10.239> a<02:03:10.400> rabbit<02:03:10.719> or<02:03:10.880> something<02:03:11.040> like<02:03:11.199> that."

02:03:11.520 --> 02:03:16.400
And<02:03:12.239> if<02:03:12.400> if<02:03:12.719> a<02:03:13.119> child<02:03:13.360> is<02:03:13.520> too<02:03:13.679> young,<02:03:13.840> they<02:03:14.080> don't<02:03:14.159> get<02:03:14.320> it<02:03:14.719> at<02:03:14.960> the<02:03:15.040> right<02:03:15.199> age,<02:03:15.520> they<02:03:15.760> will<02:03:15.920> get<02:03:16.080> it.

02:03:16.400 --> 02:03:18.480
And<02:03:16.480> and<02:03:16.560> and<02:03:17.280> you<02:03:17.440> don't<02:03:17.599> really<02:03:17.760> teach<02:03:18.000> them<02:03:18.159> anything.

02:03:18.480 --> 02:03:23.360
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02:03:23.360 --> 02:03:27.199
They<02:03:23.520> they<02:03:23.840> know<02:03:24.000> the<02:03:24.159> game<02:03:24.400> all<02:03:24.880> they<02:03:25.119> know<02:03:25.599> what<02:03:25.840> a<02:03:26.000> cup<02:03:26.159> is<02:03:26.320> or<02:03:26.480> what<02:03:26.560> a<02:03:26.719> rabbit<02:03:26.960> is.

02:03:27.199 --> 02:03:32.800
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02:03:32.800 --> 02:03:41.040
And<02:03:33.040> what's<02:03:33.280> what's<02:03:33.599> interesting<02:03:34.000> about<02:03:34.159> that<02:03:34.480> is<02:03:36.719> what<02:03:36.960> they're<02:03:37.199> doing<02:03:37.440> is<02:03:38.800> infinitely<02:03:39.360> complicated<02:03:39.840> because<02:03:40.159> if<02:03:40.560> there's<02:03:40.719> a<02:03:40.800> rabbit

02:03:41.040 --> 02:03:48.800
on<02:03:41.199> the<02:03:41.840> on<02:03:42.080> the<02:03:42.239> floor<02:03:43.280> on<02:03:43.440> a<02:03:43.599> rug<02:03:43.840> or<02:03:44.000> something<02:03:44.159> like<02:03:44.239> that<02:03:44.480> and<02:03:44.639> you<02:03:44.800> point<02:03:45.040> and<02:03:45.280> say<02:03:45.760> rabbit,<02:03:46.880> how<02:03:47.119> does<02:03:47.360> Johnny<02:03:47.840> know?

02:03:48.800 --> 02:03:56.960
Are<02:03:48.960> you<02:03:49.119> talking<02:03:49.280> about<02:03:49.440> the<02:03:49.679> ear,<02:03:50.880> the<02:03:51.119> color<02:03:51.280> of<02:03:51.440> the<02:03:51.599> fur,<02:03:51.920> the<02:03:52.080> texture<02:03:52.320> of<02:03:52.400> the<02:03:52.639> fear,<02:03:52.960> the<02:03:53.199> fur,<02:03:53.520> the<02:03:53.840> eye<02:03:54.080> and<02:03:54.239> the<02:03:54.400> left<02:03:54.639> paw,<02:03:55.520> the<02:03:55.840> the<02:03:56.159> right<02:03:56.400> ear<02:03:56.639> and<02:03:56.800> the

02:03:56.960 --> 02:04:00.880
carpet?<02:03:57.599> What<02:03:58.320> does<02:03:58.560> the<02:03:58.800> word<02:03:59.040> rabbit<02:03:59.920> refer<02:04:00.239> to?

02:04:00.880 --> 02:04:07.679
You<02:04:01.040> don't<02:04:01.280> you<02:04:01.440> don't<02:04:01.599> go<02:04:01.760> there<02:04:02.080> and<02:04:02.560> like<02:04:04.080> somehow<02:04:05.440> specify<02:04:06.400> draw<02:04:06.560> a<02:04:06.719> circle<02:04:06.960> around.

02:04:07.679 --> 02:04:13.920
You<02:04:07.840> just<02:04:08.080> point<02:04:08.320> like<02:04:08.560> that.<02:04:09.040> And<02:04:09.360> and<02:04:09.440> and<02:04:10.320> you<02:04:10.639> also<02:04:10.960> you<02:04:11.119> don't<02:04:11.280> say<02:04:11.679> mammal<02:04:12.639> or<02:04:12.960> quadriped,<02:04:13.599> right?

02:04:13.920 --> 02:04:18.000
If<02:04:14.080> you<02:04:14.159> did<02:04:14.320> that,<02:04:14.480> you<02:04:14.560> know,<02:04:14.639> you'd<02:04:14.880> be<02:04:14.960> screwing<02:04:15.199> up<02:04:15.280> your<02:04:15.360> kid.<02:04:15.599> You<02:04:15.679> know,<02:04:15.840> you'd<02:04:16.000> be<02:04:16.080> screwing<02:04:16.320> up<02:04:16.400> your<02:04:16.480> kid<02:04:16.639> to<02:04:16.719> call<02:04:16.800> it<02:04:16.960> a<02:04:17.040> quadripet.

02:04:18.000 --> 02:04:23.280
So,<02:04:18.320> so<02:04:18.480> you<02:04:18.719> you<02:04:18.880> know<02:04:19.040> to<02:04:19.199> call<02:04:19.280> it<02:04:19.360> a<02:04:19.520> rabbit<02:04:20.000> and<02:04:20.320> so<02:04:21.119> but<02:04:21.440> you<02:04:21.599> also<02:04:21.920> so<02:04:22.080> it's<02:04:22.239> by<02:04:22.400> ostensive<02:04:22.880> definition.

02:04:23.280 --> 02:04:28.800
You<02:04:23.440> just<02:04:23.599> point,<02:04:24.000> the<02:04:24.239> kid<02:04:25.840> goes<02:04:26.080> to<02:04:26.239> their<02:04:26.480> own<02:04:26.639> experience.

02:04:28.800 --> 02:04:33.119
They<02:04:29.040> hear<02:04:29.440> your<02:04:29.760> word<02:04:30.159> and<02:04:31.520> their<02:04:31.840> experience<02:04:32.159> is<02:04:32.320> their<02:04:32.560> experience.

02:04:33.119 --> 02:04:37.679
You're<02:04:33.360> just<02:04:33.520> giving<02:04:33.760> them<02:04:34.000> a<02:04:34.239> word<02:04:34.480> that<02:04:34.719> they<02:04:34.960> can<02:04:35.119> you<02:04:35.360> that<02:04:35.599> they<02:04:35.840> can<02:04:35.920> use<02:04:36.159> to<02:04:36.400> tell<02:04:36.560> you<02:04:36.880> about<02:04:37.040> their<02:04:37.280> experience.

02:04:37.679 --> 02:04:39.599
That's<02:04:37.840> all.<02:04:38.159> Oh<02:04:38.400> yeah.<02:04:38.880> Okay.<02:04:39.119> Yeah.<02:04:39.440> Right.

02:04:39.599 --> 02:04:42.480
That's<02:04:39.760> that's<02:04:40.080> all.<02:04:40.320> So<02:04:40.560> you're<02:04:40.800> not<02:04:40.960> teaching<02:04:41.280> them<02:04:41.440> anything<02:04:41.679> that<02:04:41.920> they<02:04:42.080> don't<02:04:42.239> know.

02:04:42.480 --> 02:04:46.320
You're<02:04:42.639> just<02:04:42.800> te<02:04:43.920> telling<02:04:44.159> them<02:04:44.400> how<02:04:44.560> to<02:04:44.719> tell<02:04:44.880> you<02:04:45.440> about<02:04:45.679> their<02:04:45.920> experience.

02:04:46.320 --> 02:04:52.320
They've<02:04:46.560> already<02:04:46.719> got<02:04:46.880> the<02:04:47.040> experience<02:04:47.360> of<02:04:47.520> rabbit.<02:04:48.400> So<02:04:48.639> you're<02:04:48.800> just<02:04:48.960> mom<02:04:49.199> and<02:04:49.360> dad<02:04:49.520> are<02:04:49.679> not<02:04:49.840> telling<02:04:50.000> them<02:04:50.159> what<02:04:50.239> a<02:04:50.480> rabbit<02:04:50.880> is.

02:04:52.320 --> 02:04:58.800
They're<02:04:52.560> just<02:04:52.719> saying<02:04:52.960> here's<02:04:53.119> the<02:04:53.280> name<02:04:53.840> you<02:04:53.920> need<02:04:54.000> to<02:04:54.159> use<02:04:54.480> Johnny<02:04:54.880> or<02:04:55.840> Alice<02:04:56.480> to<02:04:56.719> to<02:04:57.119> talk<02:04:57.199> to<02:04:57.360> us<02:04:57.520> about<02:04:57.760> that<02:04:58.080> thing.

02:04:58.800 --> 02:05:05.520
So<02:04:59.280> So<02:04:59.520> it's<02:04:59.760> by<02:05:00.000> we<02:05:00.159> call<02:05:00.320> that<02:05:00.480> extensive<02:05:01.040> definition<02:05:01.440> where<02:05:01.679> you<02:05:01.840> just<02:05:02.000> point<02:05:02.480> and<02:05:02.880> you<02:05:03.119> rely<02:05:03.360> on<02:05:03.520> the<02:05:03.679> other<02:05:03.840> person's<02:05:04.159> experience<02:05:04.480> and<02:05:04.639> and<02:05:04.960> frankly<02:05:05.280> you<02:05:05.440> don't

02:05:05.520 --> 02:05:07.920
know<02:05:05.599> what<02:05:05.760> the<02:05:05.920> kid<02:05:06.320> or<02:05:06.639> anybody<02:05:07.040> else<02:05:07.199> is<02:05:07.440> experiencing.

02:05:07.920 --> 02:05:11.760
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02:05:11.760 --> 02:05:15.679
Yeah.<02:05:12.239> I<02:05:12.400> mean<02:05:12.560> your<02:05:12.719> culture<02:05:13.040> could<02:05:13.199> be<02:05:13.280> different<02:05:13.440> from<02:05:13.599> mine<02:05:13.920> completely.

02:05:15.679 --> 02:05:19.360
Uh<02:05:16.320> we<02:05:16.560> know<02:05:16.639> that<02:05:16.800> some<02:05:17.040> women<02:05:17.280> have<02:05:17.440> four<02:05:17.679> color<02:05:17.920> receptors.

02:05:19.360 --> 02:05:24.960
They<02:05:19.520> they<02:05:19.760> live<02:05:19.920> in<02:05:20.080> a<02:05:20.239> color<02:05:20.560> world<02:05:20.800> that<02:05:21.040> no<02:05:21.360> man<02:05:21.520> could<02:05:21.760> ever<02:05:22.000> and<02:05:22.239> most<02:05:22.480> women<02:05:22.800> can<02:05:23.040> can<02:05:23.280> can't<02:05:23.360> can't<02:05:23.520> even<02:05:23.760> imagine.

02:05:24.960 --> 02:05:29.199
So<02:05:25.520> So<02:05:25.760> I<02:05:25.920> can<02:05:26.080> use<02:05:26.239> a<02:05:26.400> stenc<02:05:27.199> also<02:05:27.440> for<02:05:27.679> the<02:05:27.840> one.

02:05:29.199 --> 02:05:38.320
So<02:05:29.440> for<02:05:29.599> the<02:05:29.760> one<02:05:30.000> or<02:05:30.159> the<02:05:30.320> source<02:05:30.719> I<02:05:30.880> I<02:05:31.119> can<02:05:31.280> just<02:05:31.440> say<02:05:31.920> um<02:05:33.920> um<02:05:36.080> ask<02:05:36.320> yourself<02:05:36.639> the<02:05:36.960> question<02:05:38.080> I

02:05:38.320 --> 02:05:44.800
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02:05:44.800 --> 02:05:50.800
it<02:05:45.040> I<02:05:45.280> can't<02:05:45.440> think<02:05:45.599> of<02:05:46.320> it<02:05:46.560> doesn't<02:05:46.800> happen<02:05:47.199> nothing<02:05:47.520> happens<02:05:47.760> right<02:05:47.920> for<02:05:48.159> nothing<02:05:48.400> happens<02:05:48.639> for<02:05:48.719> a<02:05:48.800> while<02:05:49.040> and<02:05:49.199> that's<02:05:49.360> the<02:05:49.520> point<02:05:49.679> during<02:05:50.000> that<02:05:50.159> space<02:05:50.400> in<02:05:50.560> which

02:05:50.800 --> 02:05:59.040
nothing<02:05:51.119> happens<02:05:52.400> that's<02:05:52.719> my<02:05:52.880> pointer<02:05:53.440> that<02:05:54.639> that<02:05:55.040> is<02:05:55.280> what<02:05:55.440> I'm<02:05:55.679> going<02:05:55.760> to<02:05:55.840> say<02:05:56.159> that<02:05:56.400> is<02:05:56.639> the<02:05:56.880> source<02:05:58.080> that<02:05:58.480> when<02:05:58.719> you<02:05:58.880> were

02:05:59.040 --> 02:06:07.440
there<02:06:00.400> in<02:06:00.719> silence<02:06:01.760> with<02:06:02.000> no<02:06:02.239> thought<02:06:02.960> waiting<02:06:03.280> for<02:06:03.440> the<02:06:03.599> next<02:06:03.760> thought<02:06:04.000> to<02:06:04.159> come<02:06:05.199> that's<02:06:05.679> me<02:06:06.000> saying<02:06:06.400> to<02:06:06.639> Johnny<02:06:07.199> that's

02:06:07.440 --> 02:06:15.119
a<02:06:07.599> rabbit<02:06:08.000> I'm<02:06:08.239> saying<02:06:08.400> to<02:06:08.560> you<02:06:08.800> that's<02:06:09.040> source<02:06:09.760> and<02:06:09.920> then<02:06:10.480> all<02:06:10.719> I<02:06:10.880> can<02:06:10.960> do<02:06:11.119> is<02:06:11.440> have<02:06:11.679> you<02:06:12.320> go<02:06:12.560> back<02:06:12.800> to<02:06:13.040> yourself<02:06:13.599> and<02:06:14.000> you<02:06:14.159> can<02:06:14.239> Do<02:06:14.400> that<02:06:14.560> again<02:06:14.639> to<02:06:14.800> yourself.

02:06:15.119 --> 02:06:17.840
Go.<02:06:15.280> Okay,<02:06:15.520> I'm<02:06:15.679> going<02:06:15.760> to<02:06:16.080> go<02:06:16.320> into<02:06:16.480> that<02:06:16.719> space<02:06:16.880> with<02:06:17.119> no<02:06:17.360> thought.

02:06:17.840 --> 02:06:22.880
Mhm.<02:06:18.719> That<02:06:19.040> Oh,<02:06:19.280> so<02:06:19.440> he's<02:06:19.679> saying<02:06:19.760> that<02:06:20.000> that's<02:06:20.159> source<02:06:20.480> and<02:06:20.719> that's<02:06:20.880> what<02:06:21.040> I'm<02:06:21.119> claiming<02:06:21.440> is<02:06:21.599> the<02:06:21.760> source.

02:06:22.880 --> 02:06:28.639
So<02:06:23.199> you<02:06:23.679> are<02:06:24.159> the<02:06:24.400> infinite<02:06:24.960> that<02:06:25.280> transcends<02:06:26.239> all<02:06:26.560> of<02:06:26.639> science<02:06:27.119> including<02:06:27.440> my<02:06:27.679> trace<02:06:28.000> logic.

02:06:28.639 --> 02:06:36.800
Um<02:06:29.280> but<02:06:29.440> the<02:06:29.599> trace<02:06:29.920> logic<02:06:30.239> is<02:06:30.480> a<02:06:30.639> nice<02:06:30.880> mathematical<02:06:32.560> framework<02:06:33.360> to<02:06:33.679> if<02:06:33.920> you're<02:06:34.159> going<02:06:34.239> to<02:06:34.400> talk,<02:06:35.679> you<02:06:35.840> know,<02:06:36.159> the<02:06:36.320> language<02:06:36.560> of<02:06:36.639> God

02:06:36.800 --> 02:06:42.960
is<02:06:36.960> silence,<02:06:37.280> but<02:06:37.520> if<02:06:37.679> you're<02:06:37.840> going<02:06:38.000> to<02:06:38.159> talk,<02:06:39.199> then<02:06:39.440> the<02:06:39.599> trace<02:06:39.920> logic<02:06:40.239> is<02:06:40.480> a<02:06:40.639> is<02:06:40.800> a<02:06:40.960> good<02:06:41.119> way<02:06:41.280> I<02:06:41.520> think<02:06:41.760> to<02:06:42.079> talk<02:06:42.239> about<02:06:42.480> observers.

02:06:42.960 --> 02:06:50.400
I<02:06:43.119> think<02:06:43.199> it's<02:06:43.360> a<02:06:43.520> general<02:06:43.760> way<02:06:43.840> to<02:06:44.079> talk<02:06:44.159> about<02:06:44.320> observers.<02:06:45.199> And<02:06:45.440> frankly,<02:06:45.920> I<02:06:46.159> think<02:06:46.320> that<02:06:46.639> once<02:06:46.880> we<02:06:47.040> have<02:06:47.199> that<02:06:47.520> way<02:06:47.679> of<02:06:47.920> talking<02:06:48.079> about<02:06:48.239> observers,<02:06:49.360> everything<02:06:49.920> else

02:06:50.400 --> 02:06:57.599
follows<02:06:50.880> from<02:06:51.119> the<02:06:51.360> observers.<02:06:52.159> So<02:06:52.320> instead<02:06:52.639> of<02:06:52.719> starting<02:06:52.960> with<02:06:53.119> spacetime<02:06:53.520> and<02:06:53.679> trying<02:06:53.840> to<02:06:53.920> shoehorn<02:06:54.400> the<02:06:54.560> observers<02:06:54.960> in,<02:06:55.840> you<02:06:56.079> start<02:06:56.239> with<02:06:56.320> a<02:06:56.480> theory<02:06:56.719> of<02:06:56.800> the<02:06:56.960> observers

02:06:57.599 --> 02:07:00.800
and<02:06:58.159> everything<02:06:58.639> else<02:06:58.880> in<02:06:59.199> science<02:06:59.599> falls<02:06:59.920> out<02:07:00.079> of<02:07:00.159> that.

02:07:00.800 --> 02:07:05.280
That's<02:07:01.040> the<02:07:01.280> claim.<02:07:01.840> Once<02:07:02.159> you<02:07:02.400> have<02:07:02.480> a<02:07:02.639> model<02:07:02.800> of<02:07:02.960> the<02:07:03.119> observer,<02:07:03.760> then<02:07:04.079> spacetime<02:07:04.560> falls<02:07:04.880> out.

02:07:05.280 --> 02:07:08.719
Everything<02:07:05.599> else<02:07:05.840> falls<02:07:06.159> out<02:07:06.560> as<02:07:06.880> headsets<02:07:07.679> of<02:07:08.000> observers.

02:07:08.719 --> 02:07:17.040
Mhm.<02:07:09.679> It's<02:07:09.920> so<02:07:10.800> interesting<02:07:11.280> because<02:07:11.599> you<02:07:11.920> were<02:07:12.320> uh<02:07:12.560> your<02:07:12.880> father<02:07:13.119> was<02:07:13.280> a<02:07:13.440> pastor<02:07:13.840> and<02:07:14.000> you<02:07:14.239> grew<02:07:14.400> up<02:07:14.480> in<02:07:14.639> a<02:07:14.960> Christian<02:07:15.440> household<02:07:16.079> which<02:07:16.239> leaves<02:07:16.800> it's

02:07:17.040 --> 02:07:24.800
almost<02:07:17.199> as<02:07:17.360> if<02:07:17.520> you're<02:07:17.679> going<02:07:18.000> full<02:07:18.320> circle<02:07:18.639> now<02:07:18.960> because<02:07:19.199> you've<02:07:20.000> how<02:07:20.239> did<02:07:20.400> that<02:07:20.560> shift<02:07:20.880> happen<02:07:21.280> from<02:07:21.760> then<02:07:22.000> going<02:07:22.239> into<02:07:22.560> science<02:07:22.880> and<02:07:23.119> then<02:07:23.760> coming<02:07:24.079> back?

02:07:24.800 --> 02:07:32.480
Yeah,<02:07:24.960> it<02:07:25.119> was<02:07:25.199> a<02:07:25.360> very<02:07:25.520> personal<02:07:25.840> journey<02:07:26.159> because<02:07:26.400> I<02:07:26.719> you<02:07:26.880> know<02:07:26.960> I<02:07:27.119> got<02:07:27.760> one<02:07:28.079> thing<02:07:28.159> in<02:07:28.320> the<02:07:28.480> science<02:07:28.800> classes<02:07:29.199> and<02:07:30.079> at<02:07:30.400> school<02:07:30.960> and<02:07:31.199> I<02:07:31.440> got<02:07:31.599> some<02:07:31.920> very<02:07:32.239> different

02:07:32.480 --> 02:07:34.960
attitudes<02:07:33.040> about<02:07:33.280> for<02:07:33.679> for<02:07:33.840> example<02:07:34.159> how<02:07:34.320> old<02:07:34.400> the<02:07:34.560> earth<02:07:34.719> is.

02:07:34.960 --> 02:07:41.280
You<02:07:35.119> know,<02:07:35.280> Earth's<02:07:35.840> 4,000<02:07:36.400> years<02:07:36.560> old<02:07:36.719> on<02:07:36.960> Sunday<02:07:37.520> and<02:07:37.760> it's,<02:07:38.159> you<02:07:38.320> know,<02:07:38.639> it's<02:07:38.880> billions<02:07:39.199> of<02:07:39.360> years<02:07:39.520> old<02:07:39.760> on<02:07:40.079> Monday<02:07:40.480> through<02:07:40.719> Friday.

02:07:41.280 --> 02:07:45.040
So,<02:07:41.545> who's<02:07:41.809> right?<02:07:42.074> Right.<02:07:42.338> And<02:07:42.603> and<02:07:42.867> and<02:07:43.132> and<02:07:43.396> you<02:07:43.661> know,<02:07:43.925> that's<02:07:44.190> a<02:07:44.454> clean<02:07:44.719> question.

02:07:45.040 --> 02:07:50.480
How<02:07:45.280> old<02:07:45.520> is<02:07:45.760> the<02:07:46.000> Earth?<02:07:46.240> I<02:07:46.480> mean,<02:07:46.720> there<02:07:46.960> there<02:07:47.200> should<02:07:47.439> be<02:07:47.679> an<02:07:47.919> answer<02:07:48.159> to<02:07:48.399> that<02:07:48.639> and<02:07:48.879> and<02:07:49.119> they're<02:07:49.359> contradictory<02:07:49.599> proposals.

02:07:50.480 --> 02:07:54.480
So,<02:07:50.880> someone's<02:07:51.440> wrong.<02:07:52.000> Maybe<02:07:52.320> both<02:07:52.480> are<02:07:52.639> wrong,<02:07:52.800> but<02:07:52.960> but<02:07:53.280> they<02:07:53.520> both<02:07:53.760> can't<02:07:53.920> be<02:07:54.079> right.

02:07:54.480 --> 02:08:00.480
So,<02:07:54.639> I<02:07:54.800> realized<02:07:55.040> I<02:07:55.199> I<02:07:55.520> had<02:07:55.760> no<02:07:56.000> problem<02:07:56.960> um<02:07:57.199> because<02:07:57.440> they<02:07:57.679> were<02:07:57.840> very<02:07:58.079> very<02:07:58.400> confident<02:07:58.719> on<02:07:58.960> both<02:07:59.119> sides<02:07:59.280> of<02:07:59.440> the<02:07:59.520> aisle.

02:08:00.480 --> 02:08:05.760
And<02:08:00.719> so<02:08:00.880> I<02:08:01.040> I<02:08:01.119> I<02:08:01.679> decided<02:08:02.000> I<02:08:02.320> had<02:08:02.400> to<02:08:02.560> figure<02:08:02.719> out<02:08:02.880> for<02:08:03.119> for<02:08:03.360> myself<02:08:03.679> as<02:08:03.840> a<02:08:04.000> as<02:08:04.239> a<02:08:04.400> teenager<02:08:04.719> in<02:08:05.040> high<02:08:05.199> school.

02:08:05.760 --> 02:08:14.320
And<02:08:06.000> so<02:08:06.960> the<02:08:07.199> way<02:08:07.360> I<02:08:08.000> decided<02:08:08.320> to<02:08:08.480> go<02:08:08.560> at<02:08:08.800> it<02:08:08.960> was<02:08:10.320> uh<02:08:11.520> eventually<02:08:11.920> ended<02:08:12.159> up<02:08:12.320> at<02:08:12.480> MIT<02:08:13.040> and<02:08:13.760> studying

02:08:14.320 --> 02:08:18.400
artificial<02:08:14.880> intelligence.<02:08:16.000> So<02:08:16.159> I<02:08:16.320> wanted<02:08:16.480> to<02:08:16.719> find<02:08:16.800> out<02:08:17.599> are<02:08:17.760> we<02:08:17.920> just<02:08:18.079> machines?

02:08:18.400 --> 02:08:22.719
Are<02:08:18.639> people<02:08:18.880> just<02:08:19.040> machines?<02:08:21.199> It's<02:08:21.280> a<02:08:21.440> valid<02:08:21.760> question.

02:08:22.719 --> 02:08:26.880
That's<02:08:22.880> a<02:08:24.159> because<02:08:24.320> you're<02:08:24.560> if<02:08:24.719> you're<02:08:24.800> a<02:08:24.960> physicist,<02:08:25.440> right,<02:08:25.599> that's<02:08:25.840> what<02:08:25.920> you're<02:08:26.079> going<02:08:26.159> to<02:08:26.239> say.

02:08:26.880 --> 02:08:29.520
We're<02:08:27.119> just<02:08:27.360> machines.<02:08:28.480> Yeah.

02:08:29.520 --> 02:08:32.880
And<02:08:29.840> neurobiology<02:08:30.560> creates<02:08:30.960> consciousness.<02:08:31.760> It's<02:08:32.000> a<02:08:32.159> complicated<02:08:32.560> machine.

02:08:32.880 --> 02:08:40.960
It's<02:08:32.960> a<02:08:33.119> wet<02:08:33.360> machine,<02:08:33.520> but<02:08:33.679> it's<02:08:33.840> a<02:08:34.000> machine.<02:08:34.960> And<02:08:35.199> so<02:08:35.440> I<02:08:35.679> wanted<02:08:36.159> So<02:08:36.320> I<02:08:36.480> was<02:08:36.560> in<02:08:36.800> I<02:08:37.040> was<02:08:37.119> in<02:08:37.280> the<02:08:37.360> AI<02:08:37.679> lab<02:08:37.840> at<02:08:38.000> MIT<02:08:38.560> in<02:08:38.960> 79<02:08:39.280> and<02:08:39.520> took<02:08:39.760> a<02:08:39.840> class<02:08:40.000> with<02:08:40.159> Marvin<02:08:40.480> Minsky,

02:08:40.960 --> 02:08:43.199
the<02:08:41.199> guy<02:08:41.360> who<02:08:41.760> started<02:08:42.079> the<02:08:42.239> field.<02:08:42.560> Oh,<02:08:42.719> yeah.

02:08:43.199 --> 02:08:49.119
And<02:08:43.520> uh<02:08:43.760> worked<02:08:44.000> on<02:08:44.800> computer<02:08:45.199> vision<02:08:45.520> systems<02:08:45.920> and<02:08:46.159> and<02:08:46.239> and<02:08:47.040> uh<02:08:47.440> and<02:08:47.679> other<02:08:47.920> things.

02:08:49.119 --> 02:08:52.480
But<02:08:49.280> then<02:08:49.440> I<02:08:49.599> al<02:08:49.840> also<02:08:50.159> was<02:08:50.320> in<02:08:50.480> the<02:08:50.639> brain<02:08:50.800> and<02:08:50.960> cognitive<02:08:51.280> science<02:08:51.520> department<02:08:51.760> at<02:08:51.920> MIT.

02:08:52.480 --> 02:08:55.119
Um<02:08:52.719> the<02:08:52.880> idea<02:08:53.280> were<02:08:53.360> there<02:08:53.599> was<02:08:53.840> okay<02:08:54.320> what<02:08:54.480> are<02:08:54.719> humans?

02:08:55.119 --> 02:08:57.199
I<02:08:55.280> mean<02:08:55.920> what<02:08:56.079> can<02:08:56.239> machines<02:08:56.639> do?

02:08:57.199 --> 02:08:59.119
And<02:08:58.159> what<02:08:58.400> what<02:08:58.639> are<02:08:58.800> humans?

02:08:59.119 --> 02:09:07.520
What<02:08:59.360> so<02:08:59.599> the<02:08:59.840> neuroscience<02:09:00.400> and<02:09:00.560> the<02:09:00.719> psychology<02:09:01.119> of<02:09:01.440> of<02:09:01.840> humans<02:09:02.159> to<02:09:02.400> try<02:09:02.560> to<02:09:02.960> piece<02:09:03.280> it<02:09:03.520> together<02:09:03.840> and<02:09:04.000> and<02:09:04.320> I<02:09:04.560> studied<02:09:05.040> human<02:09:05.520> visual<02:09:05.920> perception<02:09:06.400> and<02:09:07.280> as

02:09:07.520 --> 02:09:16.960
as<02:09:07.840> the<02:09:08.000> concrete<02:09:08.400> thing<02:09:08.880> and<02:09:09.040> so<02:09:09.199> I<02:09:09.360> I<02:09:09.440> I<02:09:10.000> was<02:09:10.159> really<02:09:10.400> trying<02:09:10.560> to<02:09:10.719> go<02:09:10.800> after<02:09:11.040> this<02:09:11.280> question<02:09:11.599> who's<02:09:11.840> right<02:09:12.639> um<02:09:13.360> and<02:09:14.800> I<02:09:15.119> became<02:09:16.560> impressed

02:09:16.960 --> 02:09:21.760
with<02:09:17.199> certain<02:09:17.440> aspects<02:09:17.760> of<02:09:17.920> both<02:09:18.159> sides<02:09:18.960> and<02:09:19.520> very<02:09:19.760> unimpressed<02:09:20.320> with<02:09:20.480> other<02:09:20.639> aspects<02:09:21.040> of<02:09:21.199> both<02:09:21.360> sides.

02:09:21.760 --> 02:09:26.639
So<02:09:22.079> I<02:09:22.239> I<02:09:23.040> quickly<02:09:23.440> became<02:09:23.679> unimpressed<02:09:24.239> with<02:09:24.320> dogmatism<02:09:24.960> and<02:09:25.119> the<02:09:25.280> and<02:09:25.440> the<02:09:25.760> spiritual<02:09:26.079> side.

02:09:26.639 --> 02:09:35.040
We<02:09:26.880> agree<02:09:27.119> with<02:09:27.199> that.<02:09:28.079> Yeah.<02:09:28.320> Completely<02:09:28.639> unimpressed<02:09:29.199> and<02:09:29.360> and<02:09:30.079> turned<02:09:30.400> off<02:09:31.119> and<02:09:31.280> and<02:09:31.599> yet<02:09:31.920> the<02:09:32.159> idea<02:09:32.639> love<02:09:32.880> your<02:09:33.040> neighbor<02:09:33.199> as<02:09:33.360> yourself<02:09:34.800> and

02:09:35.040 --> 02:09:41.760
the<02:09:35.280> idea<02:09:35.440> that<02:09:35.599> we're<02:09:35.840> not<02:09:36.000> just<02:09:36.239> machines<02:09:38.159> seemed<02:09:38.960> that<02:09:39.199> seemed<02:09:39.520> if<02:09:39.760> you<02:09:39.920> stuck<02:09:40.159> with<02:09:40.239> that<02:09:40.560> that<02:09:40.800> seemed<02:09:41.040> pretty<02:09:41.280> good.

02:09:41.760 --> 02:09:49.920
On<02:09:42.000> the<02:09:42.079> other<02:09:42.239> hand,<02:09:42.560> you<02:09:42.719> know,<02:09:43.599> hey,<02:09:43.840> if<02:09:44.000> I<02:09:44.159> could<02:09:44.320> actually<02:09:44.560> build<02:09:44.719> a<02:09:44.880> conscious<02:09:45.280> AI,<02:09:47.040> which<02:09:47.280> is<02:09:47.360> one<02:09:47.520> thing<02:09:47.599> I<02:09:47.760> was<02:09:47.920> thinking<02:09:48.079> about,<02:09:48.239> you<02:09:48.320> know,<02:09:48.480> back<02:09:48.639> in<02:09:48.800> 79,<02:09:49.360> okay,

02:09:49.920 --> 02:09:55.280
if<02:09:50.159> AI<02:09:50.480> can<02:09:50.639> be<02:09:50.800> conscious,<02:09:51.199> then,<02:09:51.520> you<02:09:51.679> know,<02:09:52.560> the<02:09:52.880> whole<02:09:53.679> religious<02:09:54.079> thing<02:09:54.239> is,<02:09:54.480> you<02:09:54.560> know,<02:09:54.719> out<02:09:54.880> the<02:09:55.040> window.

02:09:55.280 --> 02:10:03.840
I<02:09:55.440> mean<02:09:55.599> it<02:09:55.760> was<02:09:56.480> this<02:09:56.719> is<02:09:57.040> we're<02:09:57.280> not<02:09:57.440> special<02:09:57.840> like<02:09:58.079> I<02:09:58.159> can<02:09:58.320> make<02:09:58.400> a<02:09:58.560> machine<02:09:58.719> that<02:09:58.880> that<02:09:59.440> uh<02:09:59.520> you<02:09:59.760> know<02:10:00.800> so<02:10:01.199> so<02:10:03.199> but<02:10:03.599> I've

02:10:03.840 --> 02:10:12.400
realized<02:10:04.560> over<02:10:04.880> the<02:10:05.040> years<02:10:05.360> that<02:10:05.920> um<02:10:07.679> we<02:10:08.000> cannot<02:10:09.760> yet<02:10:10.719> get<02:10:10.880> a<02:10:11.119> single<02:10:11.440> specific<02:10:11.920> experience

02:10:12.400 --> 02:10:15.679
from<02:10:13.599> computation.<02:10:14.320> Not<02:10:14.560> one.

02:10:15.679 --> 02:10:21.280
And<02:10:16.000> I've<02:10:16.320> worked<02:10:16.560> at<02:10:16.719> this<02:10:16.880> long<02:10:17.040> enough<02:10:17.280> to<02:10:17.440> realize<02:10:17.679> that<02:10:17.840> I<02:10:18.000> think<02:10:18.079> it's<02:10:18.239> it's<02:10:18.480> a<02:10:18.639> principled<02:10:19.520> failure.

02:10:21.280 --> 02:10:27.920
uh<02:10:21.679> and<02:10:23.920> on<02:10:24.079> the<02:10:24.239> other<02:10:24.320> hand<02:10:24.560> I<02:10:24.719> think<02:10:24.800> that<02:10:25.040> the

02:10:27.920 --> 02:10:33.840
spiritual<02:10:29.280> side<02:10:31.440> has<02:10:32.000> a<02:10:32.159> good<02:10:32.719> consciousness<02:10:33.199> is<02:10:33.440> fundamental.

02:10:33.840 --> 02:10:36.239
It<02:10:34.000> can't<02:10:34.159> be<02:10:34.239> reduced<02:10:34.480> to<02:10:34.639> machine.<02:10:34.800> I<02:10:34.880> think<02:10:35.040> they're<02:10:35.199> right<02:10:35.360> about<02:10:35.520> that.

02:10:36.239 --> 02:10:38.800
Um<02:10:36.719> but<02:10:36.960> the<02:10:37.119> dogmatism<02:10:37.679> is<02:10:37.920> completely<02:10:38.239> out<02:10:38.400> the<02:10:38.560> window.

02:10:38.800 --> 02:10:42.800
It's<02:10:38.960> it's<02:10:39.199> it's<02:10:39.599> complete<02:10:40.000> nonsense<02:10:40.400> and<02:10:40.639> very<02:10:40.960> destructive,<02:10:41.599> inconsistent.

02:10:42.800 --> 02:10:47.040
And<02:10:43.040> so<02:10:43.440> I<02:10:43.679> realized<02:10:44.079> that<02:10:44.880> it<02:10:45.280> wasn't<02:10:45.599> one<02:10:45.840> or<02:10:46.079> the<02:10:46.320> other.

02:10:47.040 --> 02:10:55.520
It<02:10:47.280> was<02:10:47.760> there's<02:10:48.159> something<02:10:48.800> there's<02:10:49.040> an<02:10:49.199> insight<02:10:49.840> in<02:10:50.159> the<02:10:51.520> AI<02:10:52.400> science<02:10:52.719> side<02:10:53.520> and<02:10:53.679> there<02:10:53.840> are<02:10:54.000> insights<02:10:54.400> in<02:10:54.639> the<02:10:54.719> the<02:10:55.119> spiritual

02:10:55.520 --> 02:10:57.599
side<02:10:55.840> and<02:10:56.079> there's<02:10:56.480> nonsense<02:10:56.960> on<02:10:57.199> both<02:10:57.360> sides.

02:10:57.599 --> 02:11:03.599
On<02:10:57.760> the<02:10:57.920> I<02:10:58.159> on<02:10:58.400> the<02:10:58.560> science<02:10:58.800> side<02:10:59.599> I<02:10:59.840> think<02:10:59.920> it's<02:11:00.159> nonsense<02:11:00.639> to<02:11:00.880> say<02:11:00.960> that<02:11:01.199> we<02:11:01.360> can<02:11:01.440> get<02:11:01.599> consciousness<02:11:02.079> out<02:11:02.320> of<02:11:02.639> um<02:11:02.800> physical<02:11:03.199> systems.

02:11:03.599 --> 02:11:07.040
I<02:11:03.760> think<02:11:03.920> it's<02:11:04.079> just<02:11:04.239> nonsense.

02:11:07.040 --> 02:11:15.199
The<02:11:07.199> people<02:11:07.440> doing<02:11:07.599> it<02:11:07.760> are<02:11:07.920> my<02:11:08.079> friends.<02:11:08.400> I<02:11:08.639> respect<02:11:08.960> them<02:11:10.480> and<02:11:10.800> but<02:11:11.040> I<02:11:11.199> think<02:11:11.280> eventually<02:11:11.760> they're<02:11:12.159> going<02:11:12.320> to<02:11:12.480> have<02:11:12.560> to<02:11:13.520> cry<02:11:13.840> uncle<02:11:14.800> they<02:11:14.960> won't<02:11:15.119> be

02:11:15.199 --> 02:11:19.040
able<02:11:15.280> to<02:11:15.360> do<02:11:15.520> it.<02:11:15.760> And<02:11:15.920> on<02:11:16.079> the<02:11:16.159> spiritual<02:11:16.480> side,<02:11:16.719> I<02:11:16.880> think<02:11:17.119> that<02:11:17.520> they<02:11:17.920> have<02:11:18.000> a<02:11:18.239> good<02:11:18.400> piece<02:11:18.560> of<02:11:18.639> the<02:11:18.800> puzzle.

02:11:19.040 --> 02:11:23.199
Love<02:11:19.199> your<02:11:19.360> neighbor<02:11:19.520> as<02:11:19.679> yourself.<02:11:20.079> And<02:11:20.239> then<02:11:20.800> 99%<02:11:21.520> of<02:11:21.599> it<02:11:21.760> is<02:11:21.920> nonsense.

02:11:23.199 --> 02:11:31.360
4,000y<02:11:23.679> old<02:11:24.159> earth<02:11:24.400> is<02:11:24.560> nonsense.<02:11:25.679> And<02:11:25.920> so<02:11:26.400> I've<02:11:26.719> had<02:11:26.880> to<02:11:27.040> sort<02:11:27.280> of<02:11:27.520> pick<02:11:28.239> from<02:11:28.639> the<02:11:28.880> best<02:11:29.040> from<02:11:29.280> both<02:11:29.440> and<02:11:29.679> try<02:11:29.760> to<02:11:29.920> come<02:11:30.000> up<02:11:30.159> with<02:11:30.560> my<02:11:30.800> own<02:11:31.040> what<02:11:31.199> I

02:11:31.360 --> 02:11:37.840
call<02:11:31.520> conscious<02:11:31.920> realism<02:11:32.800> so<02:11:32.960> that<02:11:33.199> it's<02:11:33.360> it's<02:11:33.599> scientifically<02:11:34.159> rigorous<02:11:35.119> and<02:11:35.360> but<02:11:35.599> it<02:11:35.760> puts<02:11:36.000> consciousness<02:11:36.880> as<02:11:37.199> the<02:11:37.360> foundation.

02:11:37.840 --> 02:11:46.079
And<02:11:38.000> so<02:11:38.159> I'm<02:11:38.400> trying<02:11:39.199> and<02:11:39.520> hopefully,<02:11:40.000> you<02:11:40.159> know,<02:11:40.639> there'll<02:11:40.960> be<02:11:41.040> a<02:11:41.199> path<02:11:41.360> forward<02:11:41.599> in<02:11:41.840> which<02:11:42.480> um<02:11:42.560> we'll<02:11:42.800> get<02:11:42.880> the<02:11:43.119> best<02:11:43.280> of<02:11:43.440> both<02:11:43.679> and<02:11:44.320> get<02:11:44.560> rid<02:11:44.719> of<02:11:45.040> actually<02:11:45.280> the<02:11:45.440> dogmatism

02:11:46.079 --> 02:11:54.320
on<02:11:46.320> both<02:11:46.480> sides.<02:11:47.040> The<02:11:47.199> physicalist<02:11:47.679> dogmatism<02:11:48.560> and<02:11:48.800> the<02:11:49.119> inconsistent<02:11:50.000> dogmatism<02:11:50.719> of<02:11:50.880> the<02:11:51.199> uh<02:11:51.360> of<02:11:51.679> the<02:11:52.560> various<02:11:52.960> religions<02:11:53.840> and<02:11:54.000> keep<02:11:54.159> the

02:11:54.320 --> 02:11:58.400
best<02:11:54.400> of<02:11:54.560> both.<02:11:54.800> They<02:11:54.880> they<02:11:55.119> both<02:11:55.280> have<02:11:55.440> gems.<02:11:56.239> What<02:11:56.400> what<02:11:56.719> got<02:11:56.960> you<02:11:57.119> into<02:11:57.440> meditation?

02:11:58.400 --> 02:12:03.840
And<02:11:58.560> so<02:11:58.960> because<02:11:59.199> it's<02:11:59.440> something<02:11:59.679> that<02:12:00.000> I<02:12:00.239> mean<02:12:00.320> you're<02:12:00.880> scientist<02:12:01.520> MIT<02:12:02.079> then<02:12:02.320> all<02:12:02.480> of<02:12:02.560> a<02:12:02.719> sudden.

02:12:03.840 --> 02:12:12.320
Yes.<02:12:04.560> Well,<02:12:04.880> what<02:12:05.199> got<02:12:05.360> me<02:12:05.440> into<02:12:05.679> meditation<02:12:07.199> w<02:12:07.520> was<02:12:07.760> not<02:12:08.079> some<02:12:08.639> transcendental<02:12:10.079> big<02:12:12.079> deep

02:12:12.320 --> 02:12:16.400
inside<02:12:12.639> of<02:12:12.800> my<02:12:12.960> part.<02:12:13.199> I<02:12:13.440> couldn't<02:12:13.679> sleep.<02:12:14.239> I<02:12:14.480> was<02:12:14.560> having<02:12:14.719> a<02:12:14.880> hard<02:12:15.040> time<02:12:15.199> sleeping.

02:12:16.400 --> 02:12:24.239
You<02:12:16.560> know,<02:12:16.800> it<02:12:18.320> this<02:12:18.560> is<02:12:18.719> around<02:12:19.199> 2001<02:12:20.480> 2002<02:12:21.440> right<02:12:21.679> after<02:12:22.400> um<02:12:23.040> the<02:12:23.280> collapse<02:12:23.599> of<02:12:23.679> the<02:12:23.840> towers.

02:12:24.239 --> 02:12:33.040
I<02:12:24.480> started<02:12:24.719> having<02:12:24.960> trouble<02:12:25.520> just<02:12:25.760> like<02:12:26.000> the<02:12:26.159> weeks<02:12:26.400> after<02:12:26.719> I<02:12:27.280> that<02:12:27.520> was<02:12:27.760> pretty<02:12:29.199> intense<02:12:31.440> thing<02:12:31.679> for<02:12:31.920> me<02:12:32.079> I<02:12:32.320> guess.

02:12:33.040 --> 02:12:36.079
And<02:12:33.280> so<02:12:33.360> I<02:12:33.599> I<02:12:34.000> had<02:12:34.159> a<02:12:34.320> difficult<02:12:34.639> time<02:12:35.679> sleeping.

02:12:36.079 --> 02:12:38.719
I<02:12:36.239> I<02:12:36.480> needed<02:12:37.040> and<02:12:37.280> I<02:12:37.520> I<02:12:37.840> didn't<02:12:38.000> want<02:12:38.079> to<02:12:38.239> take<02:12:38.400> pills.

02:12:38.719 --> 02:12:43.119
I<02:12:38.960> that<02:12:39.199> was<02:12:39.280> the<02:12:39.440> one<02:12:39.599> thing<02:12:39.679> I<02:12:39.840> didn't<02:12:40.000> want<02:12:40.079> to<02:12:40.159> do<02:12:40.320> was<02:12:40.560> to<02:12:40.719> take,<02:12:41.360> you<02:12:41.520> know,<02:12:41.920> drugs<02:12:42.239> to<02:12:42.560> make<02:12:42.719> me<02:12:42.880> sleep.

02:12:43.119 --> 02:12:50.239
And<02:12:43.360> so<02:12:43.920> so<02:12:44.159> I<02:12:44.400> thought,<02:12:44.639> well,<02:12:45.360> I<02:12:45.679> started<02:12:46.000> looking<02:12:46.239> into<02:12:46.480> meditation<02:12:47.040> just<02:12:47.280> simply<02:12:47.520> as<02:12:47.679> a<02:12:47.840> way<02:12:47.920> of<02:12:48.800> not<02:12:49.040> taking<02:12:49.360> pills.

02:12:50.239 --> 02:12:52.000
And<02:12:50.400> then<02:12:50.639> I<02:12:50.800> realized<02:12:50.960> there<02:12:51.199> was<02:12:51.280> a<02:12:51.360> lot<02:12:51.520> more<02:12:51.599> to<02:12:51.760> it.

02:12:52.000 --> 02:12:55.760
So<02:12:52.320> I've<02:12:53.199> meditated<02:12:53.679> from<02:12:54.000> maybe<02:12:54.320> 30,000<02:12:54.880> hours<02:12:55.199> since<02:12:55.440> then.

02:12:55.760 --> 02:12:58.159
Uh<02:12:56.000> so<02:12:56.159> a<02:12:56.400> lot<02:12:56.480> of<02:12:56.560> meditation.<02:12:57.119> Um<02:12:57.440> incredible.

02:12:58.159 --> 02:13:02.079
And<02:12:58.320> and<02:12:58.560> it<02:12:58.719> turned<02:12:58.880> out<02:12:58.960> to<02:12:59.119> be<02:12:59.280> exactly<02:12:59.599> what<02:12:59.760> I<02:12:59.920> needed<02:13:00.159> because<02:13:00.560> that's<02:13:00.800> where<02:13:01.040> the<02:13:01.199> insights<02:13:01.599> really<02:13:01.760> come<02:13:01.920> from.

02:13:02.079 --> 02:13:06.639
You<02:13:02.159> have<02:13:02.239> to<02:13:02.320> do<02:13:02.400> your<02:13:02.560> homework.<02:13:02.960> You<02:13:03.119> study<02:13:03.840> you<02:13:04.000> study<02:13:04.239> your<02:13:04.480> math<02:13:04.639> and<02:13:04.880> you<02:13:05.040> study<02:13:05.280> the<02:13:05.520> literature<02:13:05.760> and<02:13:06.000> so<02:13:06.159> forth.

02:13:06.639 --> 02:13:10.159
But<02:13:06.800> the<02:13:07.040> creative<02:13:07.360> ideas<02:13:07.920> really<02:13:08.320> come<02:13:09.360> in<02:13:09.679> silence.

02:13:10.159 --> 02:13:14.400
I've<02:13:10.560> discovered<02:13:11.520> we<02:13:11.760> had<02:13:12.159> um<02:13:12.239> done<02:13:12.480> a<02:13:12.719> podcast<02:13:13.040> with<02:13:13.440> uh<02:13:13.679> David<02:13:14.000> Lynch.

02:13:14.400 --> 02:13:16.639
I<02:13:14.480> don't<02:13:14.560> know<02:13:14.719> he<02:13:14.880> was<02:13:14.960> a<02:13:15.360> he<02:13:15.520> was<02:13:15.599> a<02:13:15.760> Hollywood<02:13:16.159> director.

02:13:16.639 --> 02:13:22.320
Um<02:13:17.840> and<02:13:18.159> he<02:13:19.040> very<02:13:19.440> creative,<02:13:19.840> very<02:13:20.079> talented<02:13:20.480> and<02:13:20.639> he<02:13:20.880> said<02:13:21.040> the<02:13:21.199> same<02:13:21.360> thing<02:13:21.520> about<02:13:21.840> meditation.

02:13:22.320 --> 02:13:29.599
And<02:13:22.480> he's<02:13:22.639> been<02:13:22.800> he<02:13:23.040> was<02:13:23.119> meditating<02:13:23.520> for<02:13:23.679> 40<02:13:24.000> plus<02:13:24.320> years<02:13:25.119> and<02:13:25.440> that<02:13:25.840> that's<02:13:26.159> what<02:13:26.400> it's<02:13:26.719> basically<02:13:27.040> that<02:13:27.360> he<02:13:27.760> described<02:13:28.159> it<02:13:28.239> in<02:13:28.400> the<02:13:28.560> sense<02:13:28.639> that<02:13:28.800> there<02:13:28.960> is<02:13:29.119> that<02:13:29.360> field

02:13:29.599 --> 02:13:37.520
of<02:13:29.840> consciousness<02:13:30.320> and<02:13:30.560> creativity<02:13:31.040> comes<02:13:31.280> out<02:13:31.440> of<02:13:31.520> it<02:13:31.920> and<02:13:32.159> during<02:13:32.480> the<02:13:32.639> times<02:13:32.960> of<02:13:33.119> meditation<02:13:33.520> and<02:13:33.760> silence<02:13:34.079> is<02:13:34.320> when<02:13:34.480> that<02:13:34.719> opening<02:13:35.119> happens<02:13:36.480> abs<02:13:37.119> that's<02:13:37.360> good

02:13:37.520 --> 02:13:44.000
to<02:13:37.679> hear<02:13:37.920> that<02:13:38.239> that's<02:13:38.560> my<02:13:38.719> experience<02:13:39.119> as<02:13:39.360> well<02:13:39.920> of<02:13:40.079> course<02:13:40.239> you<02:13:40.400> have<02:13:40.480> to<02:13:40.560> do<02:13:40.800> your<02:13:40.960> homework<02:13:41.280> Lynch<02:13:41.679> of<02:13:41.840> course<02:13:42.079> did<02:13:42.320> his<02:13:42.480> homework<02:13:42.800> he's<02:13:42.960> he<02:13:43.119> he<02:13:43.360> works<02:13:43.520> very<02:13:43.760> hard

02:13:44.000 --> 02:13:51.599
he<02:13:44.239> studies<02:13:44.560> and<02:13:45.040> and<02:13:45.520> is<02:13:45.760> there<02:13:45.920> on<02:13:46.079> set<02:13:46.320> and<02:13:46.480> whatever<02:13:47.440> and<02:13:47.679> I<02:13:47.840> have<02:13:47.920> to<02:13:48.079> be<02:13:48.239> you<02:13:48.320> know<02:13:48.480> doing<02:13:48.719> my<02:13:48.880> experiments<02:13:49.440> reading<02:13:49.679> the<02:13:49.920> literature<02:13:50.480> doing<02:13:50.639> the<02:13:50.800> math<02:13:51.199> so<02:13:51.440> you

02:13:51.599 --> 02:13:57.840
do<02:13:51.679> all<02:13:51.840> that<02:13:52.079> stuff,<02:13:52.400> but<02:13:52.639> then<02:13:53.280> you<02:13:53.440> let<02:13:53.599> it<02:13:53.760> all<02:13:53.920> go<02:13:54.719> and<02:13:54.880> you<02:13:55.040> go<02:13:55.119> into<02:13:55.520> absolute<02:13:55.920> silence<02:13:56.239> and<02:13:56.480> no<02:13:56.639> thought<02:13:56.880> whatsoever.

02:13:57.840 --> 02:14:04.159
And<02:13:58.000> and<02:13:58.400> so<02:13:58.639> it's<02:13:58.800> it's<02:13:59.199> really<02:13:59.440> fun<02:13:59.679> because<02:14:00.079> it's<02:14:00.719> it<02:14:01.040> really<02:14:01.280> involves<02:14:01.760> both<02:14:03.440> fundamentally.

02:14:04.159 --> 02:14:06.719
It's<02:14:04.239> it's<02:14:04.560> there's<02:14:04.800> it's<02:14:05.040> not<02:14:05.119> like<02:14:05.280> one<02:14:05.520> is<02:14:05.599> the<02:14:05.760> right<02:14:05.840> thing<02:14:05.920> and<02:14:06.079> the<02:14:06.159> other<02:14:06.320> was<02:14:06.480> wrong.

02:14:06.719 --> 02:14:15.360
It's<02:14:06.880> rather<02:14:07.119> that<02:14:08.079> you<02:14:08.320> meditation<02:14:09.920> in<02:14:10.320> complete<02:14:10.639> silence<02:14:11.199> and<02:14:11.520> then<02:14:13.520> thinking<02:14:14.000> but<02:14:14.320> with<02:14:14.560> complete<02:14:14.880> rigor

02:14:15.360 --> 02:14:21.520
I<02:14:15.520> mean<02:14:16.480> creative<02:14:16.880> so<02:14:17.119> it<02:14:17.280> could<02:14:17.360> be<02:14:17.520> artistic<02:14:17.920> and<02:14:18.079> so<02:14:18.239> forth<02:14:18.560> but<02:14:18.800> but<02:14:18.880> but<02:14:19.280> but<02:14:19.920> doing<02:14:20.239> it<02:14:20.960> seriously.

02:14:21.520 --> 02:14:24.239
So<02:14:21.760> if<02:14:21.840> you're<02:14:22.000> if<02:14:22.159> you're<02:14:22.320> doing<02:14:22.400> mathematics,<02:14:23.360> make<02:14:23.520> sure<02:14:23.679> it's<02:14:23.840> consistent.

02:14:24.239 --> 02:14:26.719
If<02:14:24.400> you're<02:14:24.480> doing<02:14:24.639> art,<02:14:24.960> you<02:14:25.040> know,<02:14:25.199> do<02:14:25.440> the<02:14:25.599> best<02:14:25.760> you<02:14:25.920> can.

02:14:26.719 --> 02:14:35.599
Um<02:14:27.840> somehow<02:14:28.239> that<02:14:29.360> in<02:14:29.520> ways<02:14:29.840> I'm<02:14:30.239> still<02:14:30.560> trying<02:14:30.719> to<02:14:30.880> wrap<02:14:31.119> my<02:14:31.360> head<02:14:31.440> around,<02:14:31.920> it's<02:14:32.320> both<02:14:32.560> are<02:14:32.800> important<02:14:33.199> somehow<02:14:33.520> for<02:14:33.760> the<02:14:34.000> one<02:14:35.119> source

02:14:35.599 --> 02:14:39.760
to<02:14:35.840> know<02:14:36.079> itself.<02:14:36.960> It<02:14:37.280> does<02:14:37.520> need<02:14:37.760> to<02:14:38.000> jump<02:14:38.320> into<02:14:39.360> Yeah.

02:14:39.760 --> 02:14:41.840
different<02:14:40.079> perspectives<02:14:40.880> with<02:14:41.199> both<02:14:41.440> feet.

02:14:41.840 --> 02:14:44.239
Jump<02:14:42.079> in,<02:14:43.760> get<02:14:44.000> lost.

02:14:44.239 --> 02:14:46.719
I<02:14:44.480> mean<02:14:44.880> into<02:14:45.119> it.<02:14:45.280> I<02:14:45.440> mean<02:14:45.599> literally<02:14:46.079> identify.

02:14:46.719 --> 02:14:54.639
Most<02:14:46.960> of<02:14:47.040> us<02:14:47.199> are<02:14:47.520> identified<02:14:47.920> with<02:14:48.079> our<02:14:48.239> bodies<02:14:48.560> and<02:14:48.719> we<02:14:49.119> I<02:14:49.360> mean<02:14:49.599> are<02:14:49.760> afraid<02:14:50.320> to<02:14:50.560> lose<02:14:50.719> our<02:14:50.960> bodies<02:14:51.199> and<02:14:51.360> and<02:14:51.440> and<02:14:52.239> if<02:14:52.560> people<02:14:52.800> insult<02:14:53.119> us,<02:14:53.360> we<02:14:53.520> get<02:14:53.679> really<02:14:53.840> upset.

02:14:54.639 --> 02:15:03.119
So<02:14:54.880> we're<02:14:55.280> completely<02:14:56.560> identified<02:14:56.960> with<02:14:57.119> our<02:14:57.360> avatars<02:14:58.159> in<02:14:58.400> the<02:14:58.560> headset<02:14:59.440> and<02:14:59.599> and<02:15:00.400> the<02:15:00.639> source<02:15:00.960> doesn't<02:15:01.119> have<02:15:01.280> to<02:15:01.360> do<02:15:01.440> that<02:15:01.679> I<02:15:01.840> guess<02:15:02.079> but<02:15:02.480> it<02:15:02.719> chooses

02:15:03.119 --> 02:15:11.280
To<02:15:03.280> do<02:15:03.440> that,<02:15:03.679> to<02:15:03.920> really<02:15:04.400> somehow<02:15:04.880> my<02:15:05.040> feeling<02:15:05.199> is<02:15:05.440> it's<02:15:05.679> looking<02:15:05.920> at<02:15:06.079> itself<02:15:06.400> from<02:15:06.560> a<02:15:06.800> perspective<02:15:08.400> and<02:15:08.639> it's<02:15:08.960> really<02:15:09.280> taking<02:15:09.520> that<02:15:09.760> perspective<02:15:10.320> so<02:15:10.639> seriously<02:15:11.040> that

02:15:11.280 --> 02:15:19.679
it<02:15:11.520> thinks<02:15:11.679> it's<02:15:11.920> the<02:15:12.079> avatar<02:15:13.520> and<02:15:13.760> then<02:15:13.920> it<02:15:14.159> wakes<02:15:14.400> up<02:15:14.639> and<02:15:14.880> says,<02:15:15.199> "Oh,<02:15:15.440> I'm<02:15:15.599> not<02:15:15.760> that<02:15:15.920> avatar,"<02:15:16.480> but<02:15:16.639> I<02:15:16.880> really<02:15:17.040> got<02:15:17.280> that<02:15:17.520> perspective<02:15:18.079> of<02:15:18.320> myself<02:15:18.800> really<02:15:19.199> well<02:15:19.520> because

02:15:19.679 --> 02:15:28.880
I<02:15:19.990> thought<02:15:20.301> I<02:15:20.611> was<02:15:20.922> the<02:15:21.233> avatar.<02:15:21.544> So<02:15:21.855> I<02:15:22.165> really<02:15:22.476> have<02:15:22.787> that<02:15:23.098> perspective<02:15:23.409> of<02:15:23.720> myself<02:15:24.030> and<02:15:24.341> now<02:15:24.652> I<02:15:24.963> know<02:15:25.274> myself<02:15:25.584> even<02:15:25.895> better<02:15:26.206> because<02:15:26.517> I<02:15:26.828> know<02:15:27.138> I<02:15:27.449> transcend<02:15:27.760> that.

02:15:28.880 --> 02:15:31.599
<02:15:29.147> I<02:15:29.413> really<02:15:29.680> understand<02:15:29.947> that<02:15:30.213> and<02:15:30.480> then<02:15:30.747> I<02:15:31.013> transcended<02:15:31.280> it.

02:15:31.599 --> 02:15:34.159
So<02:15:31.760> I<02:15:31.920> really<02:15:32.159> grasp<02:15:32.480> that<02:15:32.880> and<02:15:33.040> I,<02:15:33.440> I'm<02:15:33.679> beyond<02:15:33.920> that.

02:15:34.159 --> 02:15:38.480
So<02:15:34.400> that's<02:15:34.639> the<02:15:34.880> best<02:15:35.040> I<02:15:35.280> can<02:15:35.360> do<02:15:35.520> and<02:15:35.679> it's<02:15:35.920> probably<02:15:36.719> not<02:15:37.199> not<02:15:37.520> good<02:15:37.760> enough.

02:15:38.480 --> 02:15:42.239
<02:15:38.709> It<02:15:38.937> needs<02:15:39.166> to<02:15:39.394> experience<02:15:39.622> all<02:15:39.851> those<02:15:40.080> things<02:15:40.308> in<02:15:40.537> order<02:15:40.765> to<02:15:40.994> know<02:15:41.222> its<02:15:41.451> true<02:15:41.679> nature.

02:15:42.239 --> 02:15:45.280
<02:15:42.405> Yes,<02:15:42.571> you<02:15:42.738> can<02:15:42.904> say.<02:15:43.070> <02:15:43.236> That's<02:15:43.403> right.<02:15:43.569> From<02:15:43.735> an<02:15:43.901> infinite<02:15:44.068> number<02:15:44.234> of<02:15:44.400> perspectives.

02:15:45.280 --> 02:15:48.719
<02:15:45.470> I,<02:15:45.660> I<02:15:45.850> need<02:15:46.040> to<02:15:46.230> ask<02:15:46.420> you,<02:15:46.610> Donald,<02:15:46.800> you<02:15:46.990> have<02:15:47.180> a<02:15:47.370> wife<02:15:47.560> whom<02:15:47.750> you<02:15:47.940> love<02:15:48.130> very<02:15:48.320> much.

02:15:48.719 --> 02:15:51.360
You<02:15:49.280> have<02:15:49.440> this<02:15:49.679> profession<02:15:50.079> which<02:15:50.400> you<02:15:50.639> love.

02:15:51.360 --> 02:15:53.679
How<02:15:51.520> do<02:15:51.679> you<02:15:51.760> deal<02:15:52.000> with<02:15:52.159> the<02:15:52.320> attachments<02:15:52.880> of,<02:15:53.040> of<02:15:53.360> that?

02:15:53.679 --> 02:15:57.440
Do<02:15:53.840> you<02:15:54.000> now<02:15:54.239> look<02:15:54.480> at<02:15:54.560> it<02:15:54.880> more<02:15:55.040> of<02:15:55.199> a<02:15:55.360> thing<02:15:55.840> of<02:15:56.159> with<02:15:56.320> this<02:15:56.560> understanding?

02:15:57.440 --> 02:16:04.480
Is<02:15:57.599> there<02:15:57.760> a<02:15:57.920> sense<02:15:58.079> of<02:15:58.239> detachment<02:15:59.440> now<02:15:59.760> when<02:16:00.079> you're<02:16:00.400> playing<02:16:00.719> your<02:16:00.960> role<02:16:01.199> or<02:16:01.440> this<02:16:01.920> avatar?

02:16:04.480 --> 02:16:12.079
<02:16:04.828> Well,<02:16:05.176> I've<02:16:05.524> had<02:16:05.872> a<02:16:06.220> chance<02:16:06.568> to<02:16:06.916> really<02:16:07.264> ask<02:16:07.612> myself<02:16:07.960> that<02:16:08.308> question<02:16:08.656> personally<02:16:09.004> since<02:16:09.352> COVID<02:16:09.700> because<02:16:10.048> I've<02:16:10.396> almost<02:16:10.744> died<02:16:11.092> from<02:16:11.440> COVID.

02:16:12.079 --> 02:16:20.639
So<02:16:12.320> I,<02:16:12.480> I've,<02:16:12.800> I've<02:16:13.199> faced<02:16:13.440> death<02:16:13.679> and<02:16:14.000> so<02:16:15.440> I,<02:16:16.000> um,<02:16:17.760> I<02:16:18.000> went<02:16:18.159> through<02:16:18.320> a<02:16:18.480> period<02:16:18.719> where<02:16:19.280> my,<02:16:19.520> my<02:16:19.840> heart<02:16:20.079> failed

02:16:20.639 --> 02:16:27.280
and<02:16:21.280> uh<02:16:21.599> I<02:16:22.079> texted<02:16:22.480> my<02:16:22.639> wife<02:16:22.800> goodbye<02:16:23.599> and<02:16:24.000> some<02:16:24.239> others<02:16:24.719> because<02:16:25.520> I've<02:16:25.840> been<02:16:26.000> in<02:16:26.159> heart<02:16:26.400> failure<02:16:26.639> for<02:16:26.800> 30<02:16:27.040> hours.

02:16:27.280 --> 02:16:34.639
You<02:16:27.440> just<02:16:27.520> can't<02:16:27.679> be<02:16:27.760> in<02:16:27.920> heart<02:16:28.079> failure<02:16:28.400> for,<02:16:28.560> for<02:16:29.199> so<02:16:29.520> and<02:16:29.920> I<02:16:30.079> don't<02:16:30.159> know,<02:16:30.400> I,<02:16:30.639> I<02:16:31.040> to<02:16:31.199> this<02:16:31.360> day<02:16:31.520> don't<02:16:31.760> know<02:16:31.840> why<02:16:31.920> I<02:16:32.080> survived.<02:16:32.399> I<02:16:32.559> don't,<02:16:32.800> really<02:16:33.040> don't<02:16:33.280> understand<02:16:34.240> why<02:16:34.399> I

02:16:34.639 --> 02:16:38.000
survived<02:16:34.960> that.<02:16:35.200> I<02:16:35.679> frankly<02:16:36.080> don't.<02:16:36.399> That<02:16:36.559> was<02:16:36.719> five<02:16:36.960> years<02:16:37.120> ago.

02:16:38.000 --> 02:16:41.599
So<02:16:39.760> and<02:16:40.479> I<02:16:40.800> was<02:16:40.960> scared.

02:16:41.599 --> 02:16:47.760
I<02:16:41.840> was<02:16:41.920> afraid.<02:16:43.280> Um,<02:16:45.359> everything<02:16:45.599> that<02:16:45.840> you,<02:16:46.240> I'd<02:16:46.479> meditated<02:16:46.880> for<02:16:47.040> quite<02:16:47.120> a<02:16:47.280> bit<02:16:47.439> there.

02:16:47.760 --> 02:16:50.240
So,<02:16:47.920> it<02:16:48.160> was,<02:16:48.559> it<02:16:48.800> was<02:16:48.960> ve<02:16:49.200> very,<02:16:49.439> very<02:16:49.760> scary.

02:16:50.240 --> 02:16:56.399
So,<02:16:50.479> I<02:16:50.639> have<02:16:50.800> no<02:16:51.040> illusions<02:16:51.359> that<02:16:51.599> if<02:16:51.760> I<02:16:52.399> had<02:16:52.559> a<02:16:52.719> gun<02:16:52.880> put<02:16:53.040> to<02:16:53.200> my<02:16:53.280> head<02:16:53.359> that<02:16:53.599> I<02:16:53.679> would<02:16:53.760> be<02:16:53.920> a<02:16:54.080> brave<02:16:54.479> man<02:16:54.800> and,<02:16:54.960> and<02:16:55.200> I<02:16:55.359> have<02:16:55.519> no<02:16:55.679> illusions<02:16:55.920> whatsoever.

02:16:56.399 --> 02:16:59.120
I'd<02:16:56.559> probably<02:16:56.800> be<02:16:57.439> just,<02:16:57.679> just<02:16:58.000> as,<02:16:58.160> as,<02:16:58.240> as<02:16:58.800> scared.

02:16:59.120 --> 02:17:06.960
So,<02:16:59.519> so<02:17:00.000> even<02:17:00.319> everything<02:17:00.639> that<02:17:00.800> I've<02:17:01.040> learned,<02:17:01.359> everything<02:17:01.599> I've<02:17:01.840> said<02:17:02.000> right<02:17:02.240> now,<02:17:02.880> you<02:17:03.040> know,<02:17:03.519> when<02:17:03.679> you<02:17:03.840> face<02:17:04.080> your<02:17:04.240> own<02:17:04.399> death,<02:17:04.800> it's,<02:17:05.040> it's<02:17:05.679> um<02:17:06.479> I'm<02:17:06.719> not<02:17:06.880> going

02:17:06.960 --> 02:17:10.719
to<02:17:07.040> say<02:17:07.200> I'm,<02:17:07.280> I'm<02:17:07.519> the<02:17:07.679> brave<02:17:07.920> man.<02:17:08.160> I'm,<02:17:08.399> I'm<02:17:08.639> going<02:17:08.719> to<02:17:08.800> say<02:17:08.880> that<02:17:09.120> I'll,<02:17:09.280> I'll<02:17:09.599> probably<02:17:09.840> be<02:17:10.319> scared.

02:17:10.719 --> 02:17:17.519
So,<02:17:10.880> it's,<02:17:10.960> it's<02:17:11.280> really,<02:17:11.519> it's<02:17:11.840> really<02:17:12.000> humbling<02:17:12.479> to<02:17:12.719> me<02:17:13.599> to,<02:17:14.080> to,<02:17:14.240> to<02:17:14.880> recognize<02:17:15.599> how<02:17:15.920> attached<02:17:16.319> I<02:17:16.479> am<02:17:16.559> to<02:17:16.719> the<02:17:16.880> avatar.

02:17:17.519 --> 02:17:21.519
Even<02:17:17.760> though<02:17:17.920> I'm<02:17:18.080> here<02:17:18.319> saying<02:17:18.800> I'm<02:17:19.040> not<02:17:19.120> my<02:17:19.359> avatar,<02:17:19.760> I<02:17:19.920> transcend<02:17:20.319> the<02:17:20.399> avatar.

02:17:21.519 --> 02:17:24.800
Um<02:17:22.639> the<02:17:22.880> attachment<02:17:23.359> is,<02:17:23.599> is<02:17:24.000> very,<02:17:24.240> very<02:17:24.479> real.

02:17:24.800 --> 02:17:30.000
I<02:17:25.040> spend<02:17:25.280> time<02:17:25.439> in<02:17:25.679> meditation<02:17:27.679> looking<02:17:27.920> at<02:17:28.080> it<02:17:28.639> and<02:17:28.960> watching<02:17:29.280> it.

02:17:30.000 --> 02:17:34.719
And<02:17:30.240> I<02:17:30.399> think<02:17:30.479> the<02:17:30.719> detachment,<02:17:31.200> I'm<02:17:31.439> getting<02:17:31.599> more<02:17:31.840> detachment,<02:17:32.639> but<02:17:32.880> for<02:17:33.040> me<02:17:33.200> to<02:17:33.359> actually<02:17:33.679> claim<02:17:33.920> I'm<02:17:34.160> detached.

02:17:34.719 --> 02:17:38.639
No,<02:17:34.880> no,<02:17:35.040> no,<02:17:35.200> no,<02:17:35.359> no,<02:17:35.519> no.<02:17:36.240> Anybody<02:17:36.639> could<02:17:36.800> disprove<02:17:37.200> that<02:17:37.359> pretty<02:17:37.599> quickly<02:17:37.760> if<02:17:38.000> they<02:17:38.080> wanted<02:17:38.319> to.

02:17:38.639 --> 02:17:41.359
They<02:17:38.880> could<02:17:39.040> hang<02:17:39.280> me<02:17:39.439> over<02:17:39.599> a<02:17:39.679> cliff<02:17:39.840> and<02:17:40.000> say,<02:17:40.080> "Don,<02:17:40.319> are<02:17:40.479> you<02:17:40.559> still<02:17:40.719> detached?"

02:17:41.359 --> 02:17:44.160
And<02:17:41.530> I<02:17:41.700> would<02:17:41.871> say,<02:17:42.042> you<02:17:42.213> know,<02:17:42.383> "Please,<02:17:42.554> please<02:17:42.725> pull<02:17:42.896> me<02:17:43.066> back<02:17:43.237> over<02:17:43.408> from<02:17:43.579> over<02:17:43.749> the<02:17:43.920> cliff."

02:17:44.160 --> 02:17:48.160
I<02:17:44.319> mean,<02:17:44.800> so,<02:17:45.280> so<02:17:45.519> I'm<02:17:45.760> not<02:17:45.840> going<02:17:45.920> to<02:17:46.399> pretend<02:17:46.639> to<02:17:46.800> be<02:17:47.040> what,<02:17:47.280> what<02:17:47.439> I'm<02:17:47.599> not.

02:17:48.160 --> 02:17:52.800
[laughter]<02:17:48.432> <02:17:48.704> But<02:17:48.976> you're<02:17:49.248> getting<02:17:49.520> better<02:17:49.792> at<02:17:50.064> just<02:17:50.336> watching<02:17:50.608> those,<02:17:50.880> those<02:17:51.152> thoughts<02:17:51.424> and<02:17:51.696> those<02:17:51.968> feelings<02:17:52.240> essentially.

02:17:52.800 --> 02:17:55.439
<02:17:53.143> That's<02:17:53.486> true.<02:17:53.829> <02:17:54.171> Yeah,<02:17:54.514> <02:17:54.857> that's<02:17:55.200> true.

02:17:55.439 --> 02:18:04.240
I'm<02:17:55.679> having<02:17:55.840> more<02:17:56.080> patience<02:17:56.559> with<02:17:57.439> looking<02:17:57.679> at<02:17:57.920> myself,<02:17:59.280> watching<02:18:00.639> the<02:18:00.880> anxiety<02:18:01.519> and<02:18:01.760> the<02:18:01.920> selfish<02:18:02.319> thoughts,<02:18:02.639> you<02:18:02.800> know,<02:18:02.880> the,<02:18:03.040> the<02:18:03.280> self-centered<02:18:03.920> thoughts,

02:18:04.240 --> 02:18:09.120
the,<02:18:04.639> the<02:18:05.439> judgmental<02:18:06.080> thoughts<02:18:06.479> and,<02:18:06.639> and,<02:18:06.719> and<02:18:07.280> so<02:18:07.439> forth<02:18:07.679> that,<02:18:07.840> that<02:18:08.160> come<02:18:08.319> up.

02:18:09.120 --> 02:18:15.599
And<02:18:09.280> then<02:18:10.160> that<02:18:10.719> makes<02:18:10.960> me<02:18:11.120> have<02:18:11.280> more<02:18:11.439> compassion<02:18:12.000> on<02:18:12.240> other<02:18:12.479> people<02:18:12.880> that,<02:18:13.120> that<02:18:13.920> I<02:18:14.240> might<02:18:14.399> not<02:18:14.719> otherwise<02:18:15.200> have.

02:18:15.599 --> 02:18:21.439
So,<02:18:16.800> so,<02:18:17.120> so<02:18:17.359> yeah,<02:18:17.439> I<02:18:17.599> would<02:18:17.679> say<02:18:17.840> I'm,<02:18:18.000> I'm<02:18:18.240> in<02:18:18.399> the<02:18:18.559> process<02:18:18.960> and<02:18:19.200> I'm,<02:18:19.359> I'm<02:18:19.599> glad<02:18:19.840> still<02:18:20.160> to<02:18:20.399> be<02:18:20.479> in<02:18:20.639> the<02:18:20.880> process.

02:18:21.439 --> 02:18:24.240
Um,<02:18:22.719> but<02:18:23.280> I<02:18:23.519> am<02:18:23.599> no<02:18:23.840> saint.

02:18:24.240 --> 02:18:30.240
I'm,<02:18:24.551> I'm<02:18:24.862> meditating<02:18:25.173> but<02:18:25.484> I'm<02:18:25.796> no<02:18:26.107> saint.<02:18:26.418> <02:18:26.729> We<02:18:27.040> have<02:18:27.351> just<02:18:27.662> a<02:18:27.973> few<02:18:28.284> last<02:18:28.596> questions<02:18:28.907> left<02:18:29.218> before<02:18:29.529> we<02:18:29.840> close.

02:18:30.240 --> 02:18:38.880
Um<02:18:30.800> we<02:18:31.120> talked<02:18:31.359> about<02:18:31.679> why<02:18:32.000> we<02:18:32.880> think<02:18:33.120> that<02:18:33.439> consciousness<02:18:34.160> needs<02:18:34.399> to<02:18:34.559> appear<02:18:35.200> as<02:18:35.519> many<02:18:35.840> and,<02:18:36.080> and<02:18:36.639> essentially<02:18:36.960> create<02:18:37.200> that<02:18:37.439> separation<02:18:37.840> to<02:18:38.080> experience<02:18:38.559> itself

02:18:38.880 --> 02:18:46.080
and<02:18:39.120> what<02:18:39.280> it's<02:18:39.519> not.<02:18:40.960> What<02:18:41.200> about<02:18:42.479> suffering,<02:18:43.120> cruelty,<02:18:43.760> human<02:18:44.160> conflict,<02:18:44.719> war,<02:18:45.200> evil?

02:18:46.080 --> 02:18:50.479
Why<02:18:46.399> go<02:18:46.559> to<02:18:46.719> that<02:18:46.960> extent?<02:18:48.240> What,<02:18:48.479> what<02:18:48.639> is<02:18:48.800> your<02:18:48.960> maybe<02:18:49.200> thought<02:18:49.439> on<02:18:49.599> that?

02:18:50.479 --> 02:18:56.880
<02:18:50.765> It's<02:18:51.050> a<02:18:51.336> great<02:18:51.622> question.<02:18:51.908> Um<02:18:52.193> yeah,<02:18:52.479> the<02:18:52.765> problem<02:18:53.050> of<02:18:53.336> pain<02:18:53.622> and<02:18:53.908> problem<02:18:54.193> of<02:18:54.479> evil.

02:18:56.880 --> 02:18:59.280
<02:18:57.076> C.S.<02:18:57.273> Lewis<02:18:57.469> put<02:18:57.665> it<02:18:57.862> pretty<02:18:58.058> well<02:18:58.255> in<02:18:58.451> one<02:18:58.647> of<02:18:58.844> his<02:18:59.040> books.

02:18:59.280 --> 02:19:04.160
I<02:18:59.439> think<02:18:59.519> the<02:18:59.679> problem<02:18:59.840> of<02:18:59.920> pain,<02:19:00.479> um<02:19:00.800> if<02:19:01.040> God<02:19:01.200> were<02:19:01.439> good,<02:19:02.080> he<02:19:02.319> would<02:19:02.399> want<02:19:02.559> the<02:19:02.719> creatures<02:19:03.040> to<02:19:03.200> be<02:19:03.359> happy.

02:19:04.160 --> 02:19:10.319
If<02:19:04.319> God<02:19:04.559> were<02:19:04.719> all<02:19:04.960> powerful,<02:19:05.519> he<02:19:05.679> could<02:19:05.840> do<02:19:05.920> what<02:19:06.080> he<02:19:06.240> wanted,<02:19:07.120> but<02:19:07.359> the<02:19:07.519> creatures<02:19:07.920> aren't<02:19:09.439> happy.

02:19:10.319 --> 02:19:15.920
So<02:19:10.479> either<02:19:10.800> God<02:19:10.960> is<02:19:11.120> not<02:19:11.359> good<02:19:11.599> or<02:19:11.840> not<02:19:12.000> all<02:19:12.240> powerful<02:19:12.639> or<02:19:12.880> both<02:19:14.399> is,<02:19:14.559> is<02:19:14.800> the<02:19:14.960> way<02:19:15.120> I<02:19:15.280> think<02:19:15.359> the<02:19:15.519> way<02:19:15.599> he<02:19:15.679> put<02:19:15.840> it.

02:19:15.920 --> 02:19:18.880
And<02:19:16.080> it's,<02:19:16.240> that's<02:19:17.040> a<02:19:17.359> pretty<02:19:17.840> compelling.

02:19:18.880 --> 02:19:23.760
But<02:19:19.040> then<02:19:19.200> he<02:19:19.280> goes<02:19:19.439> through<02:19:19.599> on<02:19:19.679> the<02:19:19.760> problem<02:19:19.920> of<02:19:20.080> pain<02:19:20.240> and<02:19:20.399> tries<02:19:20.559> to<02:19:20.639> give<02:19:20.719> a<02:19:20.960> Christian<02:19:21.280> perspective<02:19:21.679> to<02:19:21.920> answer<02:19:22.719> that,<02:19:22.960> that<02:19:23.359> question.

02:19:23.760 --> 02:19:29.200
And<02:19:24.160> I<02:19:24.479> think<02:19:25.840> he<02:19:26.080> does<02:19:26.160> as<02:19:26.399> good<02:19:26.479> a<02:19:26.639> job<02:19:26.719> as<02:19:26.960> you<02:19:27.120> can<02:19:27.519> do<02:19:27.760> within<02:19:28.160> Christianity<02:19:28.639> on<02:19:28.880> that.

02:19:29.200 --> 02:19:33.519
But<02:19:29.280> it's<02:19:29.519> a<02:19:29.760> very,<02:19:30.000> very<02:19:31.040> deep,<02:19:31.359> deep<02:19:31.679> question.

02:19:33.519 --> 02:19:41.679
My<02:19:34.639> take<02:19:35.040> on<02:19:35.280> it<02:19:37.120> and<02:19:37.359> here<02:19:37.599> I,<02:19:37.760> I<02:19:38.000> do<02:19:38.160> feel<02:19:39.439> I'm,<02:19:40.000> you<02:19:40.160> know,<02:19:40.240> I'm<02:19:40.399> not<02:19:40.559> speaking<02:19:40.800> as<02:19:40.960> a<02:19:41.120> professional.

02:19:41.679 --> 02:19:44.479
I'm<02:19:41.920> not<02:19:42.000> a<02:19:42.160> philosopher.<02:19:42.479> I'm<02:19:42.639> not<02:19:42.719> a<02:19:42.800> theologian<02:19:43.280> and<02:19:43.439> so<02:19:43.599> forth.

02:19:44.479 --> 02:19:58.000
But<02:19:44.719> I<02:19:44.880> can<02:19:45.040> just<02:19:45.280> speak<02:19:45.519> from<02:19:45.840> my<02:19:46.080> own<02:19:46.639> personal<02:19:46.960> view<02:19:47.200> from<02:19:47.439> this<02:19:47.760> headset<02:19:49.040> idea<02:19:49.520> and<02:19:50.880> that<02:19:51.200> in<02:19:51.439> some<02:19:51.680> sense

02:19:58.000 --> 02:20:03.200
the<02:19:58.319> one<02:19:59.200> to<02:19:59.439> know<02:19:59.680> itself<02:20:01.520> loses<02:20:01.920> its<02:20:02.240> identity<02:20:02.479> in<02:20:02.640> the<02:20:02.800> avatar.

02:20:03.200 --> 02:20:07.520
It<02:20:03.359> actually<02:20:03.600> completely<02:20:04.160> identifies<02:20:04.479> with<02:20:04.640> the<02:20:04.720> avatar<02:20:05.040> and<02:20:05.120> lets<02:20:05.359> it<02:20:05.680> experience<02:20:06.080> it<02:20:06.399> completely.

02:20:07.520 --> 02:20:11.040
<02:20:07.831> So<02:20:08.142> it<02:20:08.453> doesn't,<02:20:08.764> but,<02:20:09.075> but<02:20:09.386> it's<02:20:09.697> always<02:20:10.008> the<02:20:10.319> one.

02:20:11.040 --> 02:20:13.840
We're<02:20:11.392> always<02:20:11.744> safe.<02:20:12.096> Yeah.<02:20:12.448> <02:20:12.800> Yeah.

02:20:13.840 --> 02:20:17.600
So<02:20:14.800> I'm<02:20:15.040> again,<02:20:15.280> I'm<02:20:15.520> speaking<02:20:15.760> way<02:20:16.000> over<02:20:16.240> where<02:20:16.880> I<02:20:17.120> am,<02:20:17.359> right?

02:20:17.600 --> 02:20:20.640
I'm,<02:20:17.760> I'm<02:20:18.240> because<02:20:18.720> as<02:20:18.960> soon<02:20:19.040> as<02:20:19.120> you<02:20:19.200> put<02:20:19.359> it,<02:20:19.520> "Oh,<02:20:19.760> Don,<02:20:20.080> you<02:20:20.160> feel<02:20:20.399> you're<02:20:20.479> safe."

02:20:20.640 --> 02:20:24.080
Well,<02:20:20.880> here's<02:20:20.960> a<02:20:21.040> gun<02:20:21.200> in<02:20:21.359> your<02:20:21.439> head<02:20:21.600> and<02:20:21.680> I,<02:20:21.840> I'll,<02:20:22.080> you<02:20:22.160> know,<02:20:22.319> I'll,<02:20:22.479> I'll<02:20:22.800> break<02:20:23.040> out<02:20:23.120> in<02:20:23.280> a<02:20:23.359> sweat<02:20:23.520> and<02:20:23.680> so<02:20:23.840> forth.

02:20:24.080 --> 02:20:28.880
So<02:20:24.240> I'm,<02:20:25.120> I'm<02:20:25.680> very,<02:20:25.920> very<02:20:26.240> aware<02:20:26.640> I'm<02:20:26.880> speaking<02:20:27.200> way<02:20:27.439> beyond<02:20:27.760> my<02:20:27.920> spiritual<02:20:28.319> attainment<02:20:28.640> here.

02:20:28.880 --> 02:20:34.800
But<02:20:28.960> anyway,<02:20:29.920> given<02:20:30.240> that<02:20:30.640> I<02:20:31.280> not<02:20:31.760> meeting<02:20:32.160> my<02:20:32.319> own<02:20:32.560> standards,<02:20:33.120> if<02:20:33.520> then<02:20:33.760> we<02:20:33.920> can<02:20:34.000> talk<02:20:34.160> about<02:20:34.240> it.

02:20:34.800 --> 02:20:41.359
<02:20:35.148> U<02:20:35.496> so<02:20:35.845> the,<02:20:36.193> the<02:20:36.541> one<02:20:36.889> is,<02:20:37.238> is<02:20:37.586> um<02:20:37.934> looking<02:20:38.282> at<02:20:38.631> itself<02:20:38.979> through<02:20:39.327> an<02:20:39.675> a<02:20:40.024> through<02:20:40.372> its<02:20:40.720> avatars.

02:20:41.359 --> 02:20:45.600
is<02:20:41.920> lost<02:20:42.160> in<02:20:42.319> the<02:20:42.479> avatar.<02:20:43.680> It's<02:20:44.000> completely<02:20:44.479> safe.

02:20:45.600 --> 02:20:52.720
And,<02:20:45.760> and<02:20:46.080> as<02:20:46.319> you<02:20:46.479> saw<02:20:46.720> when<02:20:46.960> you<02:20:47.359> had<02:20:47.520> your<02:20:47.680> near-death<02:20:48.160> experience,<02:20:48.640> once<02:20:48.960> you<02:20:49.120> leave<02:20:49.280> the<02:20:49.439> avatar,<02:20:49.920> it's<02:20:50.160> sort<02:20:50.319> of<02:20:50.399> like,<02:20:50.560> "Oh,<02:20:51.680> there<02:20:51.920> was<02:20:52.080> nothing<02:20:52.240> to<02:20:52.399> worry<02:20:52.560> about."

02:20:52.720 --> 02:20:54.880
There<02:20:52.960> literally<02:20:53.200> was<02:20:53.439> nothing<02:20:53.600> to<02:20:53.840> worry<02:20:54.000> about<02:20:54.240> there.

02:20:54.880 --> 02:20:57.840
But<02:20:55.040> while<02:20:55.200> you're<02:20:55.359> in<02:20:55.439> the<02:20:55.600> avatar,<02:20:56.080> you,<02:20:56.399> I'm<02:20:56.560> not<02:20:56.720> on,<02:20:56.880> I've<02:20:57.120> never<02:20:57.280> had<02:20:57.439> that.

02:20:57.840 --> 02:21:00.399
I've<02:20:58.018> never,<02:20:58.197> I<02:20:58.375> was<02:20:58.554> close<02:20:58.732> to<02:20:58.911> death,<02:20:59.089> but<02:20:59.268> I<02:20:59.446> never<02:20:59.625> had<02:20:59.803> an<02:20:59.982> out-of-body<02:21:00.160> experience.

02:21:00.399 --> 02:21:06.960
So,<02:21:00.479> I<02:21:00.640> never<02:21:00.800> had<02:21:01.040> what<02:21:01.280> you<02:21:01.520> had.<02:21:01.840> I<02:21:02.080> just<02:21:02.240> had<02:21:02.399> the,<02:21:03.040> the<02:21:03.359> fear<02:21:03.600> all<02:21:03.760> the<02:21:03.840> way<02:21:04.000> up<02:21:04.160> to<02:21:04.319> the<02:21:04.479> point,<02:21:04.640> but<02:21:04.960> never<02:21:05.840> got<02:21:06.080> to<02:21:06.240> the<02:21:06.399> other<02:21:06.560> side.

02:21:06.960 --> 02:21:14.880
So,<02:21:07.258> I<02:21:07.555> haven't<02:21:07.853> seen<02:21:08.150> the<02:21:08.448> other<02:21:08.745> side.<02:21:09.043> I<02:21:09.340> just<02:21:09.638> intellectually<02:21:09.936> am<02:21:10.233> saying<02:21:10.531> it,<02:21:10.828> but<02:21:11.126> I'm<02:21:11.423> glad<02:21:11.721> to<02:21:12.019> have<02:21:12.316> it<02:21:12.614> <02:21:12.911> from,<02:21:13.209> from<02:21:13.506> someone<02:21:13.804> who's<02:21:14.101> actually<02:21:14.399> experienced

02:21:14.880 --> 02:21:23.439
it.<02:21:15.280> So<02:21:15.520> that's<02:21:15.760> my<02:21:16.000> best<02:21:16.640> is<02:21:16.880> that<02:21:17.359> the<02:21:17.600> p,<02:21:17.840> the<02:21:18.080> problem<02:21:18.240> of<02:21:18.399> pain<02:21:18.640> and,<02:21:18.800> and<02:21:19.200> evil<02:21:20.080> is<02:21:21.280> that<02:21:21.920> the<02:21:22.479> is<02:21:22.720> not,<02:21:23.200> it's

02:21:23.439 --> 02:21:27.520
not<02:21:23.680> real.<02:21:24.160> It's<02:21:24.640> we're,<02:21:24.880> we're<02:21:25.439> completely<02:21:26.160> safe.

02:21:27.520 --> 02:21:35.760
<02:21:27.857> Now<02:21:28.193> I<02:21:28.530> would<02:21:28.867> immediately<02:21:29.203> then<02:21:29.540> qualify<02:21:29.877> that<02:21:30.213> by<02:21:30.550> saying<02:21:30.887> I'm<02:21:31.223> not<02:21:31.560> saying<02:21:31.897> you<02:21:32.233> should<02:21:32.570> do<02:21:32.907> anything<02:21:33.243> you<02:21:33.580> want<02:21:33.917> to<02:21:34.253> to<02:21:34.590> anybody<02:21:34.927> else<02:21:35.263> and<02:21:35.600> then

02:21:35.760 --> 02:21:43.120
it's<02:21:36.080> all,<02:21:36.400> it's<02:21:36.720> all<02:21:37.040> good.<02:21:37.360> I,<02:21:37.680> I,<02:21:38.000> I,<02:21:38.320> I<02:21:38.640> and,<02:21:38.960> and<02:21:39.280> that<02:21:39.600> does<02:21:39.920> raise<02:21:40.240> a<02:21:40.560> question<02:21:40.880> of,<02:21:41.200> of<02:21:41.520> my<02:21:41.840> own<02:21:42.160> consistency,<02:21:42.480> <02:21:42.800> right?

02:21:43.120 --> 02:21:45.280
So<02:21:43.359> there,<02:21:43.520> there<02:21:43.680> is<02:21:43.840> an<02:21:44.000> interesting<02:21:44.479> issue<02:21:44.800> there.

02:21:45.280 --> 02:21:48.880
If,<02:21:45.439> if,<02:21:45.520> if,<02:21:45.680> if<02:21:46.160> it's<02:21:46.399> no<02:21:46.560> problem<02:21:46.800> at<02:21:46.960> all,<02:21:47.120> why,<02:21:47.359> why<02:21:47.600> don't<02:21:47.760> you?

02:21:48.880 --> 02:21:54.560
But<02:21:49.040> I<02:21:49.200> think<02:21:49.280> the<02:21:49.520> right<02:21:49.680> way<02:21:49.840> to,<02:21:50.240> to,<02:21:50.560> to<02:21:51.040> say<02:21:51.200> it<02:21:51.359> is,<02:21:51.920> um<02:21:52.080> there's<02:21:52.399> no<02:21:52.640> problem,<02:21:52.960> but<02:21:53.280> that<02:21:53.439> is<02:21:53.680> you.

02:21:54.560 --> 02:21:57.439
The<02:21:54.800> other<02:21:55.040> person<02:21:55.200> is<02:21:55.520> you<02:21:56.399> with<02:21:56.560> a<02:21:56.800> different<02:21:56.960> avatar.

02:21:57.439 --> 02:21:59.920
So<02:21:57.600> why<02:21:57.760> in<02:21:57.920> the<02:21:58.000> world<02:21:58.160> would<02:21:58.319> you<02:21:58.399> want<02:21:58.479> to<02:21:58.640> do<02:21:58.800> something<02:21:58.960> to<02:21:59.120> that<02:21:59.359> person?

02:21:59.920 --> 02:22:03.439
So<02:22:00.101> if<02:22:00.283> you<02:22:00.464> really<02:22:00.645> understand<02:22:00.827> this,<02:22:01.008> you're<02:22:01.189> not<02:22:01.371> going<02:22:01.552> to<02:22:01.733> be<02:22:01.915> going<02:22:02.096> and<02:22:02.277> hurting<02:22:02.459> other<02:22:02.640> people.

02:22:03.439 --> 02:22:10.640
Um<02:22:04.720> to<02:22:04.960> the<02:22:05.120> extent<02:22:05.280> that<02:22:05.439> you<02:22:05.520> don't,<02:22:05.760> it's<02:22:06.000> only<02:22:06.160> to<02:22:06.319> the<02:22:06.479> extent<02:22:06.640> that<02:22:06.800> you<02:22:06.960> don't<02:22:07.120> understand<02:22:07.439> it<02:22:07.680> that<02:22:07.920> you<02:22:08.240> judge<02:22:08.560> other<02:22:08.800> people<02:22:08.880> and<02:22:09.120> you<02:22:09.280> hurt<02:22:09.520> other<02:22:09.840> people<02:22:10.240> to

02:22:10.640 --> 02:22:16.720
you<02:22:10.880> can<02:22:11.040> see<02:22:11.200> exactly<02:22:11.600> how<02:22:11.840> little<02:22:12.080> you<02:22:12.240> know<02:22:12.399> yourself<02:22:12.720> by<02:22:12.960> how<02:22:13.040> you<02:22:13.200> treat<02:22:13.840> to<02:22:14.000> the<02:22:14.160> extent<02:22:14.240> that<02:22:14.399> you<02:22:14.479> hurt<02:22:14.720> other<02:22:14.880> people<02:22:15.040> it<02:22:15.280> means<02:22:15.520> you<02:22:15.760> have<02:22:15.920> no<02:22:16.080> idea<02:22:16.319> who<02:22:16.560> you

02:22:16.720 --> 02:22:21.040
are.<02:22:17.040> <02:22:17.360> Um<02:22:17.680> that's,<02:22:18.000> that's,<02:22:18.320> that's<02:22:18.640> what,<02:22:18.960> what,<02:22:19.280> what<02:22:19.600> that<02:22:19.920> shows<02:22:20.240> you.

02:22:21.040 --> 02:22:30.000
So<02:22:21.280> I,<02:22:21.439> my<02:22:21.760> own<02:22:23.040> feeling<02:22:23.359> then<02:22:23.600> is<02:22:23.920> I<02:22:24.160> don't<02:22:24.240> know,<02:22:24.399> it's<02:22:26.240> the<02:22:26.800> pain<02:22:27.040> isn't<02:22:27.359> real<02:22:27.600> but<02:22:28.160> on<02:22:28.399> the<02:22:28.560> one<02:22:28.720> hand<02:22:29.760> it

02:22:30.000 --> 02:22:38.720
feels<02:22:30.480> real<02:22:30.960> and<02:22:31.440> we<02:22:31.920> shouldn't<02:22:32.400> unnecessarily<02:22:32.880> inflict<02:22:33.360> pain<02:22:33.840> <02:22:34.320> and<02:22:34.800> ultimately<02:22:35.280> we're<02:22:35.760> safe.

02:22:38.720 --> 02:22:46.240
We<02:22:38.880> don't<02:22:39.040> like<02:22:39.200> pain<02:22:39.439> while<02:22:39.600> we're<02:22:39.840> here,<02:22:40.160> but<02:22:40.479> somehow<02:22:41.439> when<02:22:41.680> we're<02:22:41.840> released,<02:22:42.319> we<02:22:42.640> realize<02:22:43.120> it<02:22:43.359> was<02:22:44.240> not<02:22:44.479> a<02:22:44.640> big<02:22:44.800> deal<02:22:45.040> in<02:22:45.359> retrospect.

02:22:46.240 --> 02:22:54.160
And<02:22:46.399> we,<02:22:46.800> so<02:22:47.200> I<02:22:47.439> guess<02:22:47.520> the<02:22:47.760> bottom<02:22:48.080> line<02:22:48.319> is<02:22:49.359> it's<02:22:49.760> required<02:22:50.240> for<02:22:50.560> the<02:22:50.720> one<02:22:51.120> to<02:22:51.439> really<02:22:51.840> know<02:22:52.160> itself<02:22:53.040> deeply.

02:22:54.160 --> 02:23:02.479
That's<02:22:54.479> for<02:22:54.640> me<02:22:54.800> the<02:22:55.040> final<02:22:55.359> thing.<02:22:55.920> You<02:22:56.160> had<02:22:56.399> to<02:22:56.560> go<02:22:56.720> through<02:22:56.960> this<02:22:57.760> to<02:22:58.080> really<02:22:58.319> be<02:22:58.479> attached<02:22:58.800> to<02:22:58.880> this,<02:22:59.120> to<02:22:59.280> be<02:22:59.359> scared<02:22:59.600> of<02:22:59.760> death,<02:23:00.240> to<02:23:00.399> feel<02:23:00.720> pain,<02:23:01.680> to<02:23:01.920> inflict<02:23:02.240> pain,

02:23:02.479 --> 02:23:10.160
and<02:23:02.640> then<02:23:02.800> be<02:23:02.960> sorry<02:23:03.040> that<02:23:03.280> you<02:23:03.359> inflicted<02:23:03.840> pain,<02:23:05.840> and<02:23:06.080> then<02:23:06.479> eventually<02:23:07.040> step<02:23:07.280> back<02:23:07.680> and<02:23:08.000> realize<02:23:08.720> on<02:23:08.880> the<02:23:08.960> one<02:23:09.120> hand<02:23:09.280> it<02:23:09.439> was<02:23:09.520> all<02:23:09.680> an<02:23:09.920> illusion.

02:23:10.160 --> 02:23:15.920
On<02:23:10.319> the<02:23:10.479> other<02:23:10.560> hand,<02:23:10.720> because<02:23:10.960> I<02:23:11.120> took<02:23:11.280> it<02:23:11.439> so<02:23:11.600> seriously,<02:23:12.399> I<02:23:12.640> learned<02:23:13.040> a<02:23:13.280> lot<02:23:13.520> and<02:23:13.760> I<02:23:13.920> learned<02:23:14.160> that<02:23:14.399> I<02:23:14.560> transcend<02:23:15.120> all<02:23:15.280> that.

02:23:15.920 --> 02:23:18.000
That's<02:23:16.160> the<02:23:16.399> best<02:23:16.720> I<02:23:16.960> can<02:23:17.439> do.

02:23:18.000 --> 02:23:21.439
But<02:23:18.160> I'm,<02:23:18.720> I<02:23:18.960> feel<02:23:19.120> like<02:23:19.280> I'm<02:23:19.520> way<02:23:19.760> over<02:23:20.000> my<02:23:20.160> pay<02:23:20.399> grade<02:23:20.640> now.

02:23:21.439 --> 02:23:28.800
<02:23:21.710> No,<02:23:21.981> I<02:23:22.251> think<02:23:22.522> that's<02:23:22.793> beautiful.<02:23:23.064> For<02:23:23.334> me<02:23:23.605> specifically,<02:23:23.876> I<02:23:24.147> have<02:23:24.417> met<02:23:24.688> a<02:23:24.959> lot<02:23:25.230> of<02:23:25.501> people<02:23:25.771> who<02:23:26.042> have<02:23:26.313> been<02:23:26.584> interested<02:23:26.854> with<02:23:27.125> this<02:23:27.396> idea<02:23:27.667> of<02:23:27.937> non-duality<02:23:28.208> in<02:23:28.479> general,

02:23:28.800 --> 02:23:33.120
even<02:23:29.120> without<02:23:29.439> having<02:23:30.160> any<02:23:30.479> background<02:23:30.880> in<02:23:31.280> science<02:23:31.840> or<02:23:32.160> philosophy.

02:23:33.120 --> 02:23:39.840
Um,<02:23:33.439> and<02:23:33.680> I<02:23:33.920> think<02:23:34.240> what's<02:23:34.560> so<02:23:34.800> powerful<02:23:35.120> with<02:23:35.439> this<02:23:35.680> understanding<02:23:36.240> how<02:23:36.399> it's<02:23:36.640> helped<02:23:36.880> me<02:23:37.040> is<02:23:37.439> growing<02:23:37.760> up,<02:23:37.920> you<02:23:38.160> kind<02:23:38.240> of<02:23:38.399> think<02:23:38.560> how<02:23:38.880> the<02:23:39.200> most<02:23:39.359> important<02:23:39.680> things

02:23:39.840 --> 02:23:48.160
in<02:23:40.080> life<02:23:40.240> is<02:23:40.880> money<02:23:41.359> and<02:23:41.600> then<02:23:41.920> becoming<02:23:42.399> famous<02:23:42.800> and<02:23:43.120> really<02:23:43.359> becoming<02:23:44.080> successful,<02:23:44.640> what<02:23:44.800> the<02:23:44.960> world<02:23:45.200> puts<02:23:45.439> you<02:23:45.520> at,<02:23:45.680> and<02:23:45.920> you<02:23:46.160> just<02:23:46.640> get<02:23:46.880> so<02:23:47.120> competitive<02:23:47.680> and<02:23:47.920> you

02:23:48.160 --> 02:23:55.840
suffer<02:23:48.560> during<02:23:48.960> that<02:23:49.360> process.<02:23:49.760> <02:23:50.160> Um,<02:23:50.560> and<02:23:50.960> so<02:23:51.360> many<02:23:51.760> emotions<02:23:52.160> arise<02:23:52.560> from<02:23:52.960> that,<02:23:53.360> whether<02:23:53.760> that's<02:23:54.160> jealousy,<02:23:54.560> selfishness,<02:23:54.960> self-centeredness.

02:23:55.840 --> 02:24:01.520
So,<02:23:56.000> I<02:23:56.160> think<02:23:56.240> it<02:23:56.479> really<02:23:56.720> helps<02:23:57.120> put<02:23:57.280> that<02:23:57.520> into<02:23:57.840> perspective<02:23:58.319> because<02:23:58.560> you<02:23:58.880> realize<02:23:59.200> that,<02:23:59.760> that<02:24:00.080> that's<02:24:00.399> not<02:24:00.560> the<02:24:00.720> purpose<02:24:00.960> at<02:24:01.200> all.

02:24:01.520 --> 02:24:07.120
That's<02:24:01.834> <02:24:02.149> I,<02:24:02.463> I<02:24:02.777> agree<02:24:03.091> with<02:24:03.406> you.<02:24:03.720> I,<02:24:04.034> I<02:24:04.349> agree<02:24:04.663> completely<02:24:04.977> in,<02:24:05.291> in<02:24:05.606> some<02:24:05.920> sense.

02:24:07.120 --> 02:24:11.600
Um<02:24:07.520> you<02:24:07.840> are<02:24:08.160> already<02:24:09.760> that<02:24:10.000> which<02:24:10.240> you<02:24:10.399> are<02:24:10.560> searching<02:24:10.800> for.

02:24:11.600 --> 02:24:17.439
You<02:24:11.840> are<02:24:12.000> it<02:24:12.240> already.<02:24:13.040> And<02:24:13.439> to<02:24:13.680> the<02:24:13.840> extent<02:24:14.000> that<02:24:14.160> you<02:24:14.319> don't<02:24:14.479> know<02:24:14.560> who<02:24:14.720> you<02:24:14.880> are,<02:24:15.120> then<02:24:15.359> you<02:24:15.600> need<02:24:15.840> to<02:24:16.720> be<02:24:16.960> famous.

02:24:17.439 --> 02:24:21.680
You<02:24:17.600> need<02:24:17.760> to<02:24:17.920> have<02:24:18.080> money,<02:24:18.880> more<02:24:19.200> money<02:24:19.439> than<02:24:19.680> so<02:24:19.920> and<02:24:20.080> so<02:24:20.319> and,<02:24:20.479> and,<02:24:20.560> and<02:24:21.120> so<02:24:21.359> forth.

02:24:21.680 --> 02:24:30.080
To<02:24:21.840> the<02:24:22.000> extent<02:24:22.240> that<02:24:22.479> you<02:24:23.040> realize<02:24:23.439> who<02:24:23.680> you<02:24:23.840> are,<02:24:24.240> you<02:24:24.399> can<02:24:24.560> just<02:24:24.720> smile<02:24:24.960> at<02:24:25.120> the<02:24:25.280> whole<02:24:25.439> game<02:24:25.680> and,<02:24:25.840> and,<02:24:25.920> and,<02:24:26.319> and<02:24:28.800> just<02:24:29.840> hope

02:24:30.080 --> 02:24:36.160
the<02:24:30.323> other<02:24:30.567> people<02:24:30.810> wake<02:24:31.053> up<02:24:31.297> as<02:24:31.540> well<02:24:31.783> and,<02:24:32.027> and<02:24:32.270> realize<02:24:32.513> that<02:24:32.757> they're<02:24:33.000> toiling<02:24:33.243> for,<02:24:33.487> for<02:24:33.730> nothing<02:24:33.973> <02:24:34.217> that<02:24:34.460> they<02:24:34.703> already<02:24:34.947> are<02:24:35.190> everything<02:24:35.433> that<02:24:35.677> they're<02:24:35.920> searching

02:24:36.160 --> 02:24:38.560
for.<02:24:36.640> <02:24:37.120> Yeah.<02:24:37.600> And<02:24:38.080> exactly.

02:24:38.560 --> 02:24:43.840
We<02:24:38.880> like<02:24:39.120> a<02:24:39.280> lot<02:24:39.359> of<02:24:39.520> times<02:24:39.680> when<02:24:40.000> there<02:24:40.160> is<02:24:40.319> another<02:24:40.800> person,<02:24:41.120> a<02:24:41.359> colleague,<02:24:41.680> and<02:24:41.840> they<02:24:42.080> have<02:24:42.160> an<02:24:42.319> achievement,<02:24:42.720> we<02:24:42.880> don't<02:24:43.040> get<02:24:43.200> happy<02:24:43.439> with<02:24:43.520> that.

02:24:43.840 --> 02:24:47.200
when<02:24:44.080> you<02:24:44.319> look<02:24:44.479> at<02:24:44.800> it<02:24:44.960> from<02:24:45.120> the<02:24:45.359> perspective<02:24:45.680> that<02:24:45.920> they<02:24:46.160> are<02:24:46.319> us.

02:24:47.200 --> 02:24:52.240
<02:24:47.448> So<02:24:47.697> you<02:24:47.945> should<02:24:48.194> be<02:24:48.442> happy<02:24:48.691> about<02:24:48.939> that<02:24:49.187> person's<02:24:49.436> success<02:24:49.684> and<02:24:49.933> that<02:24:50.181> happiness<02:24:50.429> because<02:24:50.678> it<02:24:50.926> is<02:24:51.175> no<02:24:51.423> difference<02:24:51.672> from<02:24:51.920> us.

02:24:52.240 --> 02:24:58.080
<02:24:52.440> That,<02:24:52.640> that's<02:24:52.840> right.<02:24:53.040> And<02:24:53.240> so<02:24:53.440> that's<02:24:53.640> a<02:24:53.840> good<02:24:54.040> way<02:24:54.240> to<02:24:54.440> see<02:24:54.640> how,<02:24:54.840> how<02:24:55.040> far<02:24:55.240> along<02:24:55.440> you<02:24:55.640> are<02:24:55.840> in<02:24:56.040> understanding<02:24:56.240> who<02:24:56.440> you<02:24:56.640> really<02:24:56.840> are<02:24:57.040> because<02:24:57.240> if<02:24:57.440> you<02:24:57.640> really<02:24:57.840> know

02:24:58.080 --> 02:25:00.720
who<02:24:58.319> you<02:24:58.479> are<02:24:58.960> then<02:24:59.200> there's<02:24:59.439> never<02:24:59.760> jealousy.

02:25:00.720 --> 02:25:02.720
And<02:25:00.880> again<02:25:01.120> I'm<02:25:01.359> speaking<02:25:01.600> way<02:25:01.840> over<02:25:02.000> my<02:25:02.240> attainment.

02:25:02.720 --> 02:25:04.720
Okay.<02:25:03.040> So<02:25:03.280> this,<02:25:03.760> I'm<02:25:03.920> not<02:25:04.000> claiming<02:25:04.240> to<02:25:04.399> be<02:25:04.479> there.

02:25:04.720 --> 02:25:13.680
I'm<02:25:05.044> just<02:25:05.368> saying<02:25:05.692> that<02:25:06.016> in<02:25:06.340> abstractto<02:25:06.664> I<02:25:06.988> understand<02:25:07.312> this<02:25:07.636> <02:25:07.960> and<02:25:08.284> I'm<02:25:08.608> trying<02:25:08.932> to<02:25:09.256> get<02:25:09.580> there<02:25:09.904> through<02:25:10.228> meditation<02:25:10.552> in,<02:25:10.876> in<02:25:11.200> practice.

02:25:13.680 --> 02:25:19.280
If,<02:25:14.160> um<02:25:14.319> a<02:25:14.560> child<02:25:14.880> came<02:25:15.120> up<02:25:15.280> to<02:25:15.359> you<02:25:15.520> right<02:25:15.760> now<02:25:16.000> and<02:25:16.319> just<02:25:16.479> says<02:25:17.120> said,<02:25:17.359> "Donald,<02:25:18.160> what<02:25:18.399> am<02:25:18.560> I?"

02:25:19.280 --> 02:25:25.760
How<02:25:19.439> would<02:25:19.680> you<02:25:19.840> respond<02:25:20.160> in<02:25:20.399> the<02:25:20.560> simplest<02:25:20.960> language<02:25:21.359> possible,<02:25:22.160> just<02:25:22.399> a<02:25:22.640> few<02:25:22.880> sentences,<02:25:24.000> no<02:25:24.319> scientific<02:25:24.880> language?

02:25:25.760 --> 02:25:28.960
<02:25:25.982> Oh,<02:25:26.204> I<02:25:26.427> would<02:25:26.649> say<02:25:26.871> you're<02:25:27.093> making<02:25:27.316> all<02:25:27.538> this<02:25:27.760> up.

02:25:28.960 --> 02:25:31.200
You're,<02:25:29.200> you're,<02:25:29.439> you're<02:25:29.840> the,<02:25:30.240> you<02:25:30.560> are<02:25:30.800> me.

02:25:31.200 --> 02:25:36.640
I<02:25:31.359> would<02:25:31.439> say<02:25:31.600> you<02:25:31.760> are,<02:25:32.000> you<02:25:32.160> and<02:25:32.319> I<02:25:32.479> are,<02:25:32.720> are<02:25:33.600> one,<02:25:34.240> and<02:25:34.560> you<02:25:34.880> are<02:25:34.960> the<02:25:35.200> creator<02:25:35.439> of<02:25:35.600> everything<02:25:35.840> that<02:25:36.000> you're<02:25:36.240> seeing.

02:25:36.640 --> 02:25:38.800
Enjoy,<02:25:37.600> enjoy<02:25:38.000> the<02:25:38.240> process.

02:25:38.800 --> 02:25:40.800
Really<02:25:39.120> enjoy<02:25:39.520> life.<02:25:40.399> Yeah.

02:25:40.800 --> 02:25:49.520
Yeah.<02:25:41.208> And<02:25:41.616> uh,<02:25:42.024> Donald,<02:25:42.432> considering<02:25:42.840> we<02:25:43.248> are<02:25:43.656> not<02:25:44.064> just<02:25:44.472> these<02:25:44.880> uh<02:25:45.288> tiny<02:25:45.696> three-pound<02:25:46.104> brains<02:25:46.512> trapped<02:25:46.920> inside<02:25:47.328> a<02:25:47.736> universe<02:25:48.144> but<02:25:48.552> actually<02:25:48.960> infinite

02:25:49.520 --> 02:25:58.319
intelligence<02:25:50.160> itself.<02:25:50.640> If<02:25:50.880> somebody<02:25:51.680> listening<02:25:52.160> actually<02:25:52.640> believed<02:25:53.120> that<02:25:53.680> about<02:25:54.080> themselves<02:25:54.640> tomorrow<02:25:55.040> morning,<02:25:56.000> how<02:25:56.160> would<02:25:56.399> their<02:25:56.640> life<02:25:56.960> change?

02:25:58.319 --> 02:26:04.479
Well,<02:25:59.359> I'm<02:25:59.760> actually<02:26:00.240> trying<02:26:00.479> to<02:26:00.640> understand<02:26:00.880> it<02:26:01.040> for<02:26:01.200> myself<02:26:01.520> because<02:26:01.760> I'm,<02:26:02.080> I'm<02:26:02.560> realizing<02:26:03.040> that<02:26:03.359> I<02:26:03.600> don't<02:26:03.680> have<02:26:03.840> to<02:26:03.920> be<02:26:04.000> embodied.

02:26:04.479 --> 02:26:10.720
I,<02:26:04.720> you<02:26:04.880> know,<02:26:05.280> these<02:26:05.600> telepathic<02:26:06.160> powers<02:26:06.640> are<02:26:07.120> probably<02:26:07.600> there<02:26:08.080> if<02:26:08.319> I<02:26:08.479> just<02:26:08.640> understood<02:26:09.040> how<02:26:09.200> to,<02:26:09.920> to<02:26:10.319> use.

02:26:10.720 --> 02:26:19.040
So,<02:26:10.880> I<02:26:11.120> would<02:26:11.200> say<02:26:12.319> what,<02:26:12.640> what<02:26:12.800> I<02:26:12.960> would<02:26:13.040> do<02:26:13.200> tomorrow<02:26:13.439> morning<02:26:13.680> was<02:26:13.840> what<02:26:14.000> I'm,<02:26:14.399> I'm,<02:26:14.560> I'm<02:26:15.040> taking<02:26:15.520> a<02:26:15.840> class<02:26:16.160> on<02:26:16.399> how<02:26:16.640> to<02:26:17.280> see<02:26:17.520> without<02:26:17.840> eyes.

02:26:19.040 --> 02:26:21.920
I<02:26:19.280> doubt<02:26:19.520> that<02:26:19.680> I'll<02:26:19.840> get<02:26:20.000> there.<02:26:20.479> No,<02:26:20.800> but<02:26:21.040> why<02:26:21.280> not?

02:26:21.920 --> 02:26:24.240
You<02:26:22.080> know,<02:26:22.240> I'm,<02:26:22.399> I'm,<02:26:22.479> I'm<02:26:23.200> not<02:26:23.680> with<02:26:24.000> kids.

02:26:24.240 --> 02:26:30.000
It<02:26:24.399> seems<02:26:24.560> to<02:26:24.720> be<02:26:24.880> they,<02:26:25.040> they<02:26:25.359> can<02:26:25.439> do<02:26:25.600> it<02:26:25.760> much,<02:26:26.080> much<02:26:26.319> quicker,<02:26:26.960> but<02:26:28.160> if<02:26:28.399> I<02:26:28.560> don't<02:26:28.720> try,<02:26:29.120> so<02:26:29.359> I'm,<02:26:29.439> I'm<02:26:29.680> doing<02:26:29.840> it.

02:26:30.000 --> 02:26:38.240
I'm,<02:26:30.240> I'm<02:26:30.560> putting<02:26:30.720> on<02:26:30.880> these,<02:26:31.120> these<02:26:31.600> blindfolds,<02:26:32.720> and<02:26:33.200> I'm,<02:26:33.439> I'm,<02:26:33.600> I'm<02:26:34.479> actually<02:26:34.720> below<02:26:35.120> chance<02:26:36.240> on<02:26:36.560> guessing<02:26:37.040> at<02:26:37.359> colors<02:26:37.760> and,<02:26:37.920> and<02:26:38.080> so

02:26:38.240 --> 02:26:41.120
forth.<02:26:38.399> So<02:26:38.640> I'm,<02:26:38.800> so<02:26:39.040> I'm,<02:26:39.200> I'm<02:26:39.520> actually<02:26:39.760> below<02:26:40.080> chance<02:26:40.399> in<02:26:40.640> some<02:26:40.800> cases.

02:26:41.120 --> 02:26:46.960
So,<02:26:41.316> so<02:26:41.512> I'm,<02:26:41.708> I'm<02:26:41.903> hoping<02:26:42.099> to<02:26:42.295> get<02:26:42.491> up<02:26:42.687> to<02:26:42.883> chance.<02:26:43.079> I<02:26:43.274> just<02:26:43.470> need<02:26:43.666> to<02:26:43.862> look<02:26:44.058> at<02:26:44.254> my<02:26:44.450> own<02:26:44.646> intuitions<02:26:44.841> and<02:26:45.037> do<02:26:45.233> the<02:26:45.429> opposite<02:26:45.625> and<02:26:45.821> then<02:26:46.017> I<02:26:46.212> could<02:26:46.408> actually<02:26:46.604> maybe<02:26:46.800> start

02:26:46.960 --> 02:26:50.960
to<02:26:47.120> play<02:26:47.200> in<02:26:47.280> this.<02:26:47.680> So<02:26:47.840> that's<02:26:48.000> how,<02:26:48.160> how,<02:26:48.319> how<02:26:49.600> silly<02:26:49.920> I<02:26:50.000> feel<02:26:50.319> in<02:26:50.560> this<02:26:50.640> realm.

02:26:50.960 --> 02:26:59.439
I'm<02:26:51.200> trying<02:26:51.359> to<02:26:51.520> explore.<02:26:52.479> Um,<02:26:53.040> but<02:26:53.280> I<02:26:53.520> think<02:26:53.600> that<02:26:55.439> there's,<02:26:56.319> I'm,<02:26:56.800> I'm<02:26:57.120> exploring<02:26:57.439> mathematically<02:26:58.000> because<02:26:58.240> I'd<02:26:58.479> like<02:26:58.560> to<02:26:58.720> understand<02:26:59.120> using

02:26:59.439 --> 02:27:04.960
the<02:26:59.600> recursive<02:27:00.000> trace<02:27:00.319> logic<02:27:00.800> how<02:27:01.120> we<02:27:01.359> can<02:27:01.520> actually,<02:27:02.479> we<02:27:02.720> have<02:27:02.800> a<02:27:03.040> policy<02:27:03.280> of<02:27:03.439> seeing<02:27:03.680> ourselves<02:27:04.000> in<02:27:04.160> a<02:27:04.319> body.

02:27:04.960 --> 02:27:12.560
How<02:27:05.120> can<02:27:05.280> I<02:27:05.439> change<02:27:05.600> that<02:27:05.840> policy?<02:27:06.640> I<02:27:06.880> want<02:27:06.960> to<02:27:07.120> understand<02:27:07.359> mathematically<02:27:08.080> how<02:27:08.319> can<02:27:08.560> you<02:27:09.520> change<02:27:09.920> the<02:27:10.160> policy<02:27:10.479> so<02:27:10.720> that<02:27:10.880> you're<02:27:11.040> not<02:27:11.200> stuck<02:27:11.600> in<02:27:11.760> this<02:27:12.000> body<02:27:12.160> and<02:27:12.399> you

02:27:12.560 --> 02:27:16.319
can<02:27:12.640> access<02:27:12.960> other<02:27:13.200> kinds<02:27:13.439> of<02:27:13.600> information.<02:27:14.160> So<02:27:14.319> I'm<02:27:14.560> studying<02:27:14.720> that<02:27:14.960> mathematically<02:27:15.760> right<02:27:16.000> now.

02:27:16.319 --> 02:27:19.280
I'm,<02:27:16.880> I'm<02:27:17.040> very<02:27:17.280> interested<02:27:17.520> in<02:27:17.680> that.<02:27:18.160> I'm<02:27:18.399> studying<02:27:18.640> it<02:27:18.880> practically.

02:27:19.280 --> 02:27:24.000
I'm<02:27:19.439> looking<02:27:19.600> at,<02:27:19.840> you<02:27:19.920> know

02:27:24.000 --> 02:27:30.800
accounts<02:27:24.399> of<02:27:24.560> people<02:27:24.720> who<02:27:24.960> can<02:27:25.120> do<02:27:25.280> this.<02:27:25.680> I'm<02:27:25.920> looking<02:27:26.160> at<02:27:26.640> various<02:27:27.120> programs<02:27:27.520> that<02:27:27.760> do<02:27:27.920> this<02:27:28.080> and,<02:27:28.240> and<02:27:28.479> I'm<02:27:28.640> actually<02:27:28.880> enrolled<02:27:29.200> in<02:27:29.439> one<02:27:29.760> so<02:27:30.000> I<02:27:30.160> can<02:27:30.319> experience<02:27:30.640> it

02:27:30.800 --> 02:27:33.920
for<02:27:31.040> myself.<02:27:31.920> Um,<02:27:32.240> they're<02:27:32.560> surprised<02:27:32.960> I'm,<02:27:33.120> I'm<02:27:33.359> not<02:27:33.439> a<02:27:33.600> child.

02:27:33.920 --> 02:27:36.319
Um,<02:27:34.960> I'm,<02:27:35.359> is<02:27:35.600> this<02:27:35.760> really<02:27:36.000> happen?

02:27:36.319 --> 02:27:38.080
You're<02:27:36.560> doing<02:27:36.720> this,<02:27:36.800> this,<02:27:37.359> I'm<02:27:37.520> actually<02:27:37.680> doing<02:27:37.840> this.

02:27:38.080 --> 02:27:40.080
Um,<02:27:38.319> I,<02:27:38.479> I<02:27:38.800> had<02:27:39.120> one<02:27:39.359> just<02:27:39.520> a<02:27:39.680> couple<02:27:39.760> days<02:27:39.840> ago.

02:27:40.080 --> 02:27:43.920
I'm<02:27:40.240> having<02:27:40.399> one<02:27:40.560> in<02:27:40.720> a<02:27:40.880> couple<02:27:41.040> days,<02:27:41.600> a<02:27:41.840> training<02:27:42.160> session<02:27:42.800> where<02:27:42.960> I<02:27:43.040> put<02:27:43.200> on<02:27:43.359> a<02:27:43.520> blindfold.

02:27:43.920 --> 02:27:51.120
So<02:27:44.080> when<02:27:44.240> I<02:27:44.319> said<02:27:44.560> I'm<02:27:44.640> below<02:27:44.880> chance,<02:27:45.120> I<02:27:45.280> literally,<02:27:45.680> when,<02:27:45.840> when,<02:27:46.000> when<02:27:47.040> I'm<02:27:47.280> doing<02:27:47.439> this<02:27:47.600> and<02:27:47.760> the<02:27:48.000> person<02:27:48.160> saying<02:27:48.399> what<02:27:48.560> color<02:27:48.800> is<02:27:48.960> this,<02:27:50.000> we're<02:27:50.240> realizing<02:27:50.560> that<02:27:50.800> if<02:27:50.960> I

02:27:51.120 --> 02:27:54.720
go<02:27:51.200> with<02:27:51.359> my<02:27:51.520> intuition<02:27:51.920> and<02:27:52.160> do<02:27:52.319> the<02:27:52.560> opposite,<02:27:53.359> I'll<02:27:53.600> be<02:27:53.680> in<02:27:53.840> better<02:27:54.160> shape.

02:27:54.720 --> 02:27:57.840
So,<02:27:54.960> so<02:27:55.120> that's<02:27:55.359> how<02:27:55.600> far,<02:27:55.920> so<02:27:56.319> I<02:27:56.560> just<02:27:56.640> have<02:27:56.800> to<02:27:56.880> laugh<02:27:57.040> at<02:27:57.200> myself<02:27:57.439> right<02:27:57.680> now.

02:27:57.840 --> 02:28:01.200
Right.<02:27:58.240> So<02:27:58.399> I'm,<02:27:58.479> I'm<02:27:58.720> just<02:27:58.880> like<02:27:58.960> an<02:27:59.200> infant<02:27:59.439> in<02:27:59.680> this,<02:27:59.840> in<02:28:00.080> this,<02:28:00.479> this<02:28:00.800> area.

02:28:01.200 --> 02:28:03.280
So,<02:28:02.160> so,<02:28:02.640> and<02:28:02.880> that's<02:28:03.040> fine.

02:28:03.280 --> 02:28:09.359
You<02:28:03.359> know,<02:28:03.439> I<02:28:03.600> just,<02:28:03.760> you<02:28:03.920> know,<02:28:04.080> I<02:28:04.319> don't<02:28:04.479> have<02:28:04.560> any<02:28:04.720> talents.<02:28:05.040> Where<02:28:05.280> other<02:28:05.600> people<02:28:05.840> can<02:28:06.080> read,<02:28:06.479> you<02:28:06.640> know,<02:28:06.960> read<02:28:07.200> these<02:28:07.439> colors<02:28:07.680> and<02:28:07.920> so<02:28:08.080> forth,<02:28:08.319> I,<02:28:08.560> I'm<02:28:08.800> not.

02:28:09.359 --> 02:28:12.880
So,<02:28:09.600> I'm<02:28:09.920> very<02:28:10.160> interested<02:28:10.560> in<02:28:10.720> that.<02:28:10.960> So,<02:28:11.120> I'm<02:28:11.280> just,<02:28:11.680> I'm<02:28:12.000> like<02:28:12.240> a<02:28:12.399> little<02:28:12.640> kid.

02:28:12.880 --> 02:28:21.600
I'm<02:28:13.120> just<02:28:13.280> playing,<02:28:14.160> exploring<02:28:14.640> this<02:28:14.880> area<02:28:15.600> just<02:28:15.840> because<02:28:16.399> I've<02:28:16.720> realized,<02:28:17.439> um,<02:28:19.600> it<02:28:19.840> looks<02:28:20.080> like<02:28:20.240> there's<02:28:20.560> something<02:28:20.800> there.

02:28:21.600 --> 02:28:25.120
And<02:28:21.840> my<02:28:22.080> own<02:28:22.240> mathematics<02:28:22.720> is<02:28:22.880> telling<02:28:23.040> me<02:28:23.120> there's<02:28:23.359> something<02:28:23.439> there,<02:28:23.680> so<02:28:23.840> I<02:28:24.000> should<02:28:24.160> explore.

02:28:25.120 --> 02:28:29.600
So,<02:28:25.439> I'm<02:28:25.680> not<02:28:25.840> going<02:28:25.920> to<02:28:26.640> be,<02:28:27.680> um,<02:28:28.000> ossified<02:28:28.560> and,<02:28:28.720> and<02:28:28.960> not<02:28:29.200> explore.

02:28:29.600 --> 02:28:35.120
I'll,<02:28:29.840> I'll<02:28:30.080> be<02:28:30.240> a<02:28:30.399> kid<02:28:31.600> and<02:28:31.760> I'm,<02:28:31.920> I'm<02:28:32.080> enjoying<02:28:32.399> it.

02:28:35.120 --> 02:28:37.520
Donald,<02:28:36.000> we<02:28:36.240> have<02:28:36.399> discussed<02:28:36.800> so<02:28:37.040> much<02:28:37.280> today.

02:28:37.520 --> 02:28:39.920
I<02:28:37.760> think<02:28:37.840> we<02:28:38.000> went<02:28:38.319> so,<02:28:38.560> in<02:28:38.800> so<02:28:39.040> many<02:28:39.200> different<02:28:39.359> areas.

02:28:39.920 --> 02:28:47.680
Um,<02:28:40.640> last<02:28:40.960> question<02:28:41.120> I<02:28:41.359> want<02:28:41.520> you<02:28:41.600> to<02:28:41.760> leave<02:28:41.920> the<02:28:42.160> audience<02:28:42.479> with<02:28:43.120> is,<02:28:44.640> from<02:28:44.880> your,<02:28:45.200> whatever<02:28:45.520> you've<02:28:46.000> understood<02:28:46.479> so<02:28:46.720> far<02:28:46.960> about<02:28:47.280> life.

02:28:47.680 --> 02:28:55.280
What<02:28:47.920> is<02:28:48.000> the<02:28:48.319> purpose<02:28:48.800> of<02:28:49.840> our<02:28:50.319> human<02:28:50.640> life,<02:28:51.040> our<02:28:51.200> human<02:28:51.520> existence<02:28:51.920> while<02:28:52.240> we're<02:28:52.399> in<02:28:52.640> these<02:28:53.200> avatars<02:28:53.840> and<02:28:54.240> while<02:28:54.479> we're<02:28:54.560> in<02:28:54.720> these<02:28:54.880> bodies?

02:28:55.280 --> 02:29:00.479
What<02:28:55.439> is<02:28:55.520> our<02:28:55.680> life?<02:28:56.000> What<02:28:56.160> should<02:28:56.319> we<02:28:56.479> be<02:28:57.200> focusing<02:28:57.600> on?

02:29:00.479 --> 02:29:06.720
Yeah.<02:29:00.960> I,<02:29:01.439> I<02:29:01.840> think<02:29:02.000> that<02:29:02.399> ultimately<02:29:02.720> we'll<02:29:02.960> realize<02:29:03.200> that<02:29:03.439> all<02:29:03.600> of<02:29:03.760> our<02:29:03.920> accomplishments,<02:29:05.520> weren't<02:29:05.840> it?

02:29:06.720 --> 02:29:11.359
Fame,<02:29:07.200> wealth,<02:29:09.120> you<02:29:09.280> come<02:29:09.439> in<02:29:09.600> naked,<02:29:09.920> you<02:29:10.080> leave<02:29:10.240> naked.

02:29:11.359 --> 02:29:17.760
So,<02:29:11.520> it<02:29:11.680> wasn't<02:29:11.920> that.<02:29:12.640> It<02:29:12.960> really<02:29:14.000> was<02:29:14.800> love<02:29:15.040> your<02:29:15.200> neighbor<02:29:15.439> as<02:29:15.680> yourself<02:29:16.000> because<02:29:16.240> your<02:29:16.399> neighbor<02:29:16.640> is<02:29:16.880> yourself.

02:29:17.760 --> 02:29:24.960
And,<02:29:17.920> and,<02:29:18.000> and<02:29:19.680> the<02:29:19.920> only<02:29:20.000> thing<02:29:20.160> I<02:29:20.319> would<02:29:20.479> add<02:29:20.640> to<02:29:20.720> that<02:29:20.880> is<02:29:21.120> that<02:29:21.840> you<02:29:22.160> are<02:29:22.560> already<02:29:23.600> everything<02:29:23.920> that<02:29:24.080> you<02:29:24.240> were<02:29:24.399> searching<02:29:24.560> for.

02:29:24.960 --> 02:29:30.800
You<02:29:25.120> always<02:29:25.359> were<02:29:26.319> and<02:29:26.640> always<02:29:27.040> are<02:29:27.520> what<02:29:27.760> you<02:29:27.920> were<02:29:28.080> searching<02:29:28.399> for<02:29:28.880> and<02:29:29.120> you<02:29:29.359> don't<02:29:29.520> really<02:29:30.080> need<02:29:30.399> anything.

02:29:30.800 --> 02:29:34.640
And<02:29:30.960> so<02:29:31.120> it's<02:29:31.359> really<02:29:31.920> you

02:29:34.640 --> 02:29:39.040
discovering<02:29:36.319> you<02:29:37.040> and<02:29:37.359> discovering<02:29:37.680> that<02:29:37.920> your<02:29:38.080> neighbor<02:29:38.319> is<02:29:38.560> you.

02:29:39.040 --> 02:29:48.160
And<02:29:40.319> uh,<02:29:41.439> that's,<02:29:41.760> that's<02:29:42.399> what<02:29:42.560> I<02:29:42.800> think<02:29:43.280> life<02:29:43.600> is,<02:29:43.840> is,<02:29:43.920> is<02:29:44.720> all<02:29:45.040> about,<02:29:45.439> is<02:29:46.640> just<02:29:46.880> discovering<02:29:47.359> that

02:29:48.160 --> 02:29:51.359
everybody<02:29:48.560> you<02:29:48.720> meet<02:29:48.960> is<02:29:49.200> you<02:29:49.520> under<02:29:49.760> a<02:29:50.000> different<02:29:50.160> avatar.

02:29:51.359 --> 02:29:57.840
And,<02:29:52.000> um,<02:29:53.200> was<02:29:54.720> all<02:29:54.960> about<02:29:55.359> love<02:29:56.000> the<02:29:56.319> whole<02:29:56.479> time.

02:29:57.840 --> 02:30:00.720
The<02:29:58.000> whole<02:29:58.160> time.<02:29:59.520> Thank<02:29:59.680> you<02:29:59.920> so<02:30:00.080> much.

02:30:00.720 --> 02:30:03.520
Thank<02:30:00.880> you<02:30:00.960> so<02:30:01.200> much.<02:30:02.000> Thank<02:30:02.240> you<02:30:02.399> so,<02:30:02.640> so<02:30:02.800> much,<02:30:03.040> Donald.

02:30:03.520 --> 02:30:08.800
You<02:30:03.760> are,<02:30:04.479> um,<02:30:06.160> what<02:30:06.399> you're<02:30:06.640> doing<02:30:07.040> is<02:30:07.520> incredible.

02:30:08.800 --> 02:30:14.640
Um,<02:30:09.120> I'm<02:30:09.359> sure<02:30:09.520> you've<02:30:09.760> had<02:30:09.920> so<02:30:10.080> many<02:30:10.160> people<02:30:10.399> tell<02:30:10.479> you<02:30:10.720> this,<02:30:11.359> but<02:30:11.520> it's,<02:30:11.680> it's<02:30:12.080> amazing<02:30:12.560> with<02:30:12.800> how<02:30:13.040> far<02:30:13.439> you've<02:30:13.840> come<02:30:14.080> along.

02:30:14.640 --> 02:30:22.640
And<02:30:14.960> I<02:30:15.200> know<02:30:15.359> you,<02:30:15.600> you<02:30:15.920> say<02:30:16.080> you've<02:30:16.319> not<02:30:16.640> reached<02:30:16.880> that<02:30:17.120> stage<02:30:17.359> yet,<02:30:17.520> but<02:30:17.760> you<02:30:17.920> are,<02:30:18.960> much<02:30:19.280> more<02:30:19.520> aware<02:30:19.920> and<02:30:20.560> far<02:30:20.800> along<02:30:21.120> than<02:30:21.439> most<02:30:21.680> of<02:30:21.840> us<02:30:22.000> here.

02:30:22.640 --> 02:30:28.160
And<02:30:22.800> what<02:30:22.960> you're<02:30:23.120> doing<02:30:23.280> with<02:30:23.520> science<02:30:23.840> and<02:30:24.080> mathematics<02:30:24.720> to<02:30:24.960> actually<02:30:25.359> get<02:30:25.600> other<02:30:25.840> people<02:30:26.000> to<02:30:26.160> awaken<02:30:26.560> as<02:30:26.720> well<02:30:26.880> is,<02:30:27.120> is<02:30:27.520> incredible.

02:30:28.160 --> 02:30:30.240
Thank<02:30:28.319> you.<02:30:28.960> Thank<02:30:29.040> you.<02:30:29.280> Thank<02:30:29.439> you<02:30:29.600> very<02:30:29.760> much.

02:30:30.240 --> 02:30:37.680
Great<02:30:30.479> questions.<02:30:30.880> And<02:30:31.439> I<02:30:31.760> love,<02:30:32.160> um,<02:30:32.560> the<02:30:32.800> spirit<02:30:33.040> in<02:30:33.120> which<02:30:33.280> you<02:30:33.439> asked<02:30:33.760> everything<02:30:33.920> and,<02:30:34.080> and<02:30:34.800> it's<02:30:34.960> really,<02:30:35.600> really<02:30:36.000> wonderful<02:30:36.319> and<02:30:36.560> thank<02:30:36.720> you<02:30:36.880> for<02:30:37.120> telling<02:30:37.359> me<02:30:37.439> about

02:30:37.680 --> 02:30:43.680
your<02:30:37.840> experience.<02:30:38.240> That's<02:30:38.640> a<02:30:38.960> real,<02:30:39.920> real<02:30:40.240> good<02:30:40.399> data<02:30:40.720> point<02:30:40.880> for<02:30:41.040> me,<02:30:41.760> um,<02:30:42.080> to<02:30:42.479> have<02:30:42.640> that<02:30:42.800> firsthand<02:30:43.200> experience.

02:30:43.680 --> 02:30:46.560
Thank<02:30:43.840> you<02:30:44.080> very,<02:30:44.319> very<02:30:44.479> much,<02:30:44.640> so<02:30:44.720> much,<02:30:44.880> Donald,<02:30:45.200> for<02:30:45.359> coming<02:30:45.520> on<02:30:46.000> that<02:30:46.319> show.

02:30:46.560 --> 02:30:48.880
It<02:30:46.800> is<02:30:46.960> truly<02:30:47.280> an<02:30:47.520> honor,<02:30:47.840> really.<02:30:48.319> Thank<02:30:48.479> you.

02:30:48.880 --> 02:30:51.520
Thank<02:30:49.040> you<02:30:49.200> both.<02:30:49.520> Yes.