What Really Happens When You Die | Peter Fenwick's Studies of End-of-Life-Phenomena

Neuropsychiatrist Dr. Peter Fenwick shares insights from decades of studying near-death experiences and end-of-life phenomena. He discusses how his background in neurology and psychiatry allowed him to examine the relationship between brain activity and human consciousness during the process of dying.

Dr. Fenwick details key findings from hospice carer studies and patient accounts, including premonitions, deathbed visions, terminal lucidity, and deathbed coincidences. He explains the psychological and spiritual phases of dying, highlighting how letting go of attachments leads to non-duality and a peaceful transition.

The conversation explores physical and environmental phenomena reported around death, such as unexplained lights, stopping clocks, and animal reactions. Dr. Fenwick emphasizes the urgent need for modern Western society to remove the stigma around death, educate children, and embrace dying as a natural part of human existence.

Key takeaways

• Brain structure and neural activity alone do not fully explain the nature and origin of human consciousness.
• Near-death experiences display cultural variations in imagery, reflecting individual worldviews and spiritual backgrounds.
• End-of-life phenomena include premonitions, deathbed visitors, terminal lucidity, and deathbed coincidences.
• Transitioning peacefully at the end of life requires letting go of personal attachments, ego, and lingering guilt.
• Terminal lucidity enables individuals with severe neurological decline or dementia to regain clarity shortly before dying.
• Modern Western society often medicalizes and avoids discussing death, whereas open conversation can foster healthier attitudes.

Highlights

• 3:44 — The fundamental question of human consciousness
• 15:31 — Quantum mechanical theory of consciousness
• 21:28 — Analyzing the content of deathbed visions
• 27:16 — Transitioning to non-duality at death
• 30:11 — Terminal lucidity in dementia patients
• 34:37 — Unexplained lights and clock stopping

00:00:00 Introduction to End-of-Life Phenomena Studies
00:01:07 What Is a Neuropsychiatrist
00:04:12 First Encounter with Near-Death Experiences
00:08:33 Cultural Differences in Near-Death Experiences
00:11:21 Explaining Consciousness and Brain Function
00:16:31 Launching End-of-Life Carer Studies
00:20:16 Premonitions and Deathbed Visitors Explained
00:25:39 Stages of Giving Up and Non-Duality
00:29:10 Terminal Lucidity and Deathbed Coincidences
00:34:37 Light Clocks and Animal Behavior at Death
00:41:44 How to Achieve a Peaceful Transition
00:55:54 Changing Western Cultural Views on Death

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when<00:05:23.550> I<00:05:23.669> came<00:05:23.729> across<00:05:24.240> them<00:05:24.690> and<00:05:26.419> looked<00:05:27.419> at<00:05:27.629> those<00:05:27.840> from<00:05:28.199> the<00:05:28.319> point<00:05:28.560> of<00:05:28.740> view<00:05:28.860> of<00:05:28.919> what<00:05:29.129> the<00:05:29.280> people<00:05:29.460> experienced<00:05:30.449> and<00:05:31.220> I

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set<00:05:33.150> up<00:05:33.330> a<00:05:33.449> number<00:05:33.690> of<00:05:33.840> studies.<00:05:34.379> Some<00:05:34.860> of<00:05:34.889> them<00:05:35.190> I<00:05:35.400> was<00:05:36.120> allowed<00:05:36.449> to<00:05:36.479> do<00:05:36.900> and<00:05:37.080> others<00:05:37.349> I<00:05:37.530> wasn't.<00:05:37.979> For<00:05:38.819> example,<00:05:39.360> in<00:05:39.479> one<00:05:39.629> of<00:05:39.750> the<00:05:39.810> hospitals<00:05:40.349> I

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was<00:05:40.680> in,<00:05:40.860> I<00:05:40.889> wanted<00:05:41.400> to<00:05:41.580> study<00:05:41.849> people<00:05:42.360> in<00:05:42.509> the<00:05:42.629> intensive<00:05:43.199> care<00:05:43.229> unit<00:05:43.470> and<00:05:44.569> see<00:05:45.569> if<00:05:45.690> they<00:05:45.900> had<00:05:46.199> near-death<00:05:46.860> experiences<00:05:47.669> during<00:05:48.060> their<00:05:48.240> time<00:05:48.479> and

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when<00:05:50.340> I<00:05:50.370> put<00:05:50.669> it<00:05:50.789> to<00:05:51.000> that<00:05:51.270> hospital's<00:05:51.810> ethics<00:05:52.259> committee,<00:05:52.650> the<00:05:53.550> man<00:05:53.729> who<00:05:53.940> ran<00:05:54.210> the<00:05:54.509> intensive<00:05:55.020> care<00:05:55.050> unit<00:05:55.319> said<00:05:56.009> none<00:05:56.729> of<00:05:56.879> my<00:05:57.060> patients<00:05:57.360> will

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have<00:05:57.900> experiences<00:05:58.830> like<00:05:58.889> that,<00:05:59.370> it's<00:05:59.580> a<00:05:59.699> waste<00:05:59.969> of<00:06:00.180> time.<00:06:00.509> And<00:06:01.379> so<00:06:01.650> I<00:06:01.889> couldn't<00:06:02.400> do<00:06:02.580> that<00:06:02.789> one<00:06:03.030> then,<00:06:03.300> so<00:06:04.050> I<00:06:04.080> went<00:06:04.710> the<00:06:04.889> other<00:06:04.919> route<00:06:05.280> and<00:06:05.610> that<00:06:05.639> was<00:06:05.969> to

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study<00:06:06.389> the<00:06:06.569> experiences<00:06:07.500> that<00:06:08.629> people<00:06:09.629> have<00:06:09.840> had<00:06:09.990> and<00:06:10.919> I<00:06:11.009> was<00:06:11.159> very<00:06:11.400> lucky<00:06:11.659> because<00:06:12.659> in<00:06:13.340> '87<00:06:14.340> I

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did<00:06:15.569> a<00:06:15.900> television<00:06:16.789> documentary<00:06:17.789> in<00:06:17.879> this<00:06:18.090> country<00:06:18.599> and<00:06:19.159> following<00:06:20.159> it<00:06:20.310> we<00:06:20.819> got<00:06:21.529> 2,000<00:06:22.529> letters.<00:06:22.849> Remember

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letters,<00:06:24.210> those<00:06:24.479> things<00:06:24.750> you<00:06:24.900> have<00:06:25.050> from<00:06:25.319> you<00:06:25.469> know,<00:06:25.620> not<00:06:26.190> an<00:06:26.310> email.<00:06:26.669> So<00:06:27.360> we've<00:06:27.479> got<00:06:27.630> to<00:06:27.930> thousands<00:06:28.590> of<00:06:28.680> those<00:06:28.919> and<00:06:29.870> that<00:06:30.870> gave<00:06:31.169> us<00:06:31.199> a<00:06:31.440> huge<00:06:31.710> database<00:06:32.719> so

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I<00:06:34.110> took<00:06:34.529> the<00:06:34.710> best<00:06:34.979> ones,<00:06:35.400> best<00:06:35.940> meaning<00:06:36.360> that<00:06:36.659> most<00:06:36.990> like<00:06:37.289> an<00:06:37.500> NDE,<00:06:37.889> and<00:06:38.990> sent<00:06:39.990> questionnaires<00:06:40.830> off<00:06:41.159> to<00:06:41.490> 500<00:06:42.180> of

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them<00:06:42.509> and<00:06:42.750> that<00:06:43.650> became<00:06:44.009> a<00:06:44.069> sample<00:06:44.729> and<00:06:45.210> I<00:06:45.360> learned<00:06:45.629> a<00:06:45.750> lot<00:06:45.900> of<00:06:45.960> very<00:06:46.349> important<00:06:47.009> things<00:06:47.279> from<00:06:47.490> that.<00:06:47.810> Firstly,<00:06:48.810> this<00:06:49.440> sample<00:06:49.979> will<00:06:50.099> never<00:06:50.340> be

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repeated<00:06:50.909> again<00:06:51.680> because<00:06:52.680> 98%<00:06:54.620> had<00:06:55.620> in<00:06:55.860> fact<00:06:56.129> not<00:06:56.610> heard<00:06:56.879> of<00:06:57.029> NDEs<00:06:57.569> when<00:06:57.840> they<00:06:58.020> had<00:06:58.199> their<00:06:58.440> NDE<00:06:58.830> so

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that<00:06:59.879> automatically<00:07:00.870> rules<00:07:01.259> out<00:07:01.529> suggestion<00:07:02.430> and<00:07:02.610> things<00:07:02.819> like<00:07:03.090> that<00:07:03.150> so<00:07:03.719> it<00:07:04.650> was<00:07:04.889> very<00:07:05.669> different.<00:07:06.080> The<00:07:07.080> next<00:07:07.379> thing<00:07:07.560> I<00:07:07.710> learned

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was<00:07:08.370> that<00:07:08.430> when<00:07:09.090> you<00:07:09.240> looked<00:07:09.479> at<00:07:09.629> what<00:07:09.900> caused<00:07:10.349> the<00:07:10.680> NDE<00:07:11.300> it<00:07:12.300> was<00:07:12.690> very<00:07:13.229> very<00:07:13.650> wide,<00:07:14.449> from<00:07:16.520> cardiac

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arrests<00:07:18.599> right<00:07:19.229> through<00:07:20.449> childbirth,<00:07:22.099> illnesses,<00:07:23.099> going<00:07:23.520> even<00:07:23.849> wider<00:07:24.180> than<00:07:24.570> that.<00:07:24.620> You<00:07:25.620> come

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down<00:07:26.550> at<00:07:26.759> the<00:07:26.940> end<00:07:27.089> to<00:07:27.330> people<00:07:27.659> who<00:07:27.810> would<00:07:27.899> be<00:07:28.050> sitting<00:07:28.289> in<00:07:28.500> front<00:07:28.529> of<00:07:28.860> their<00:07:29.009> fire<00:07:29.610> one<00:07:29.729> evening<00:07:29.969> and<00:07:30.449> they<00:07:31.289> would<00:07:31.439> have<00:07:31.590> a<00:07:31.620> near-death<00:07:31.889> experience.<00:07:32.219> They<00:07:32.879> got<00:07:33.060> all<00:07:33.240> the

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phenomena<00:07:34.080> and<00:07:34.560> if<00:07:34.710> they<00:07:35.360> filled<00:07:36.360> in<00:07:36.539> any<00:07:36.750> of<00:07:36.870> the<00:07:36.990> rating<00:07:37.409> scales<00:07:37.770> they<00:07:38.280> were<00:07:38.340> rated<00:07:38.909> as<00:07:39.120> a<00:07:39.629> near-death<00:07:40.439> experience<00:07:40.650> and<00:07:41.430> so<00:07:41.639> I

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learned<00:07:42.090> that<00:07:42.449> they<00:07:43.199> are<00:07:43.469> common<00:07:43.889> in<00:07:44.009> our<00:07:44.099> society<00:07:44.849> and<00:07:45.090> the<00:07:45.629> fact<00:07:45.659> that<00:07:46.080> they<00:07:46.319> are<00:07:46.469> associated<00:07:47.009> only<00:07:47.969> with<00:07:48.840> things<00:07:49.830> like

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cardiac<00:07:50.729> arrest<00:07:51.150> I<00:07:51.330> think<00:07:51.569> was<00:07:51.750> not<00:07:52.379> due<00:07:52.680> to<00:07:52.740> the<00:07:52.979> work<00:07:53.219> which<00:07:54.139> ourselves<00:07:55.139> and<00:07:55.349> Bruce<00:07:56.280> Grayson<00:07:56.729> in<00:07:56.819> America<00:07:57.360> was<00:07:57.509> doing<00:07:57.900> and<00:07:58.139> that

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was<00:07:59.280> to<00:07:59.669> say,<00:07:59.849> okay,<00:08:00.449> we<00:08:01.050> want<00:08:01.259> to<00:08:01.409> study<00:08:01.680> near-death<00:08:02.159> experiences,<00:08:02.879> well<00:08:03.509> then<00:08:03.750> we<00:08:03.900> want<00:08:04.050> to<00:08:04.169> know<00:08:04.409> what<00:08:04.560> the<00:08:04.919> brain<00:08:05.189> state<00:08:05.639> is.<00:08:05.909> Now<00:08:06.599> how<00:08:06.870> do<00:08:06.930> you<00:08:07.110> know

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what<00:08:07.379> the<00:08:07.529> brain<00:08:07.800> state<00:08:08.189> is<00:08:08.400> when<00:08:08.639> a<00:08:08.669> woman<00:08:09.000> is<00:08:09.150> is<00:08:09.889> having<00:08:10.889> a<00:08:10.979> baby?<00:08:11.250> You<00:08:11.639> can't,<00:08:12.300> it's<00:08:12.509> far<00:08:12.719> too<00:08:12.750> variable<00:08:13.620> and<00:08:16.009> you

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during<00:08:17.879> an<00:08:18.090> illness<00:08:18.300> it's<00:08:18.810> also<00:08:19.050> too<00:08:19.620> variable.<00:08:20.099> So<00:08:20.939> I<00:08:21.270> took<00:08:21.930> what<00:08:22.469> I<00:08:22.500> thought<00:08:22.860> was<00:08:23.069> the<00:08:23.189> most<00:08:23.219> sensible,<00:08:24.029> when<00:08:24.539> the<00:08:24.659> brain<00:08:24.930> was<00:08:25.139> not

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working.<00:08:25.800> So<00:08:26.219> I<00:08:27.060> took<00:08:27.120> the<00:08:27.509> near-death<00:08:27.719> experiences<00:08:28.710> which<00:08:29.219> occurred<00:08:29.639> during<00:08:29.969> cardiac<00:08:30.449> arrest<00:08:30.960> and<00:08:31.830> so<00:08:32.070> we<00:08:32.190> spent<00:08:32.459> a<00:08:32.579> number<00:08:32.729> of<00:08:32.909> years<00:08:32.969> looking<00:08:33.659> at

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that.<00:08:34.050> So<00:08:34.740> this<00:08:34.979> was<00:08:35.130> a<00:08:35.190> large<00:08:35.490> sample.<00:08:35.899> Did<00:08:36.899> you<00:08:37.019> get<00:08:37.199> the<00:08:37.320> whole<00:08:37.469> spectrum<00:08:37.949> of<00:08:38.219> near-death<00:08:38.550> experiences?<00:08:39.390> I<00:08:39.630> think<00:08:39.750> it<00:08:40.050> was<00:08:40.140> pretty<00:08:40.320> nearly<00:08:40.740> the<00:08:41.039> whole<00:08:41.219> spectrum<00:08:41.490> in<00:08:41.940> our

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culture<00:08:42.959> because<00:08:43.649> you<00:08:43.800> have<00:08:43.979> to<00:08:44.159> say<00:08:44.459> that<00:08:44.820> they<00:08:45.029> are<00:08:45.440> certain<00:08:46.440> fundamentals<00:08:47.310> which<00:08:47.550> are<00:08:47.760> culture<00:08:48.149> specific.<00:08:48.779> For<00:08:49.589> example,<00:08:49.699> tunnels<00:08:50.699> and

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light<00:08:51.180> tend<00:08:51.750> to<00:08:51.899> be<00:08:52.050> seen<00:08:52.320> a<00:08:52.350> lot<00:08:52.920> more<00:08:52.949> in<00:08:53.790> Western<00:08:54.449> experiences<00:08:55.230> than<00:08:55.500> they<00:08:55.680> do<00:08:55.740> in<00:08:55.920> some<00:08:56.279> of<00:08:56.370> the<00:08:56.459> eastern<00:08:56.660> experiences.<00:08:57.660> And<00:08:58.230> if<00:08:58.500> you<00:08:58.620> take<00:08:58.800> hunter-gatherers<00:08:59.790> the

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experience<00:09:00.959> itself<00:09:01.320> is<00:09:01.560> quite<00:09:01.740> different.<00:09:02.579> For<00:09:03.149> example,<00:09:03.720> there's<00:09:04.680> some<00:09:04.890> nice<00:09:05.100> simple<00:09:06.890> NDEs,<00:09:07.920> sorry,<00:09:08.910> near-death

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experiences<00:09:09.930> from<00:09:10.230> hunter-gatherers<00:09:11.130> and<00:09:11.160> here's<00:09:11.610> one<00:09:11.850> example:<00:09:12.000> a<00:09:12.690> man<00:09:13.470> had<00:09:14.250> a<00:09:14.279> near-death<00:09:15.240> experience,<00:09:16.190> he<00:09:17.190> got<00:09:17.370> into

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his<00:09:17.790> canoe<00:09:18.740> and<00:09:19.740> he<00:09:19.890> paddled<00:09:20.370> for<00:09:20.550> three<00:09:20.880> days<00:09:21.350> so<00:09:22.350> he<00:09:22.470> came<00:09:22.680> to<00:09:22.920> an<00:09:23.010> island.<00:09:23.640> This<00:09:24.360> is<00:09:24.510> his<00:09:24.660> near-death<00:09:24.899> experience<00:09:25.680> and<00:09:25.920> they

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actually<00:09:26.640> do<00:09:26.820> this<00:09:27.060> and<00:09:27.480> in<00:09:28.470> the<00:09:28.680> island<00:09:29.250> he<00:09:30.470> then<00:09:31.470> had<00:09:32.149> the<00:09:33.149> sort<00:09:33.570> of<00:09:33.920> experience<00:09:34.920> of

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an<00:09:35.190> ideal<00:09:35.610> place<00:09:36.060> like<00:09:36.899> the<00:09:37.140> near-death<00:09:37.350> experiences<00:09:38.100> do,<00:09:38.399> so<00:09:39.149> his<00:09:39.630> was<00:09:39.839> quite<00:09:40.110> different.<00:09:40.740> Don't<00:09:41.339> forget<00:09:41.610> the<00:09:41.819> Japanese<00:09:43.680> when

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they<00:09:44.400> go,<00:09:44.580> they<00:09:44.940> don't<00:09:45.090> actually<00:09:45.360> go<00:09:45.660> down<00:09:45.840> a<00:09:45.900> tunnel<00:09:46.410> usually,<00:09:46.950> they're<00:09:47.070> usually<00:09:47.310> come<00:09:47.700> to<00:09:47.880> a<00:09:47.940> dark<00:09:48.240> river<00:09:48.740> which<00:09:49.740> they<00:09:49.950> have<00:09:50.190> to<00:09:50.370> cross<00:09:50.610> and<00:09:50.940> they<00:09:51.030> have<00:09:51.180> to<00:09:51.300> find<00:09:51.540> a<00:09:51.690> boatman

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to<00:09:52.140> take<00:09:52.470> them<00:09:52.680> across,<00:09:52.890> that<00:09:53.250> sort<00:09:53.550> of<00:09:53.610> thing.<00:09:53.850> So<00:09:53.880> there<00:09:54.540> are<00:09:54.750> cultural<00:09:55.350> differences<00:09:55.620> and<00:09:56.070> I<00:09:56.370> think<00:09:56.580> one<00:09:56.760> has<00:09:56.790> to<00:09:57.150> realize<00:09:57.840> that<00:09:58.260> and<00:09:58.500> accept<00:09:58.860> it<00:09:59.040> is<00:09:59.640> that<00:09:59.910> dependent

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on<00:10:00.600> your<00:10:00.780> worldview,<00:10:01.350> on<00:10:01.620> your<00:10:01.830> background.<00:10:02.430> Yes,<00:10:03.360> the<00:10:03.600> reason<00:10:03.840> for<00:10:04.530> there<00:10:04.770> being<00:10:04.920> cultural<00:10:05.490> differences<00:10:06.030> is<00:10:06.240> very<00:10:06.510> wide,<00:10:07.800> it's<00:10:08.220> definitely<00:10:08.720> worldview,

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it's<00:10:10.020> definitely<00:10:10.940> religious<00:10:11.940> upbringing<00:10:12.180> and<00:10:12.960> it's<00:10:13.230> definitely<00:10:14.160> the<00:10:14.430> culture<00:10:14.940> that<00:10:15.090> you're<00:10:15.360> in.<00:10:15.510> All<00:10:15.840> these<00:10:16.200> things<00:10:16.560> impact<00:10:16.890> on<00:10:17.520> it.<00:10:17.700> What<00:10:18.690> do

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you<00:10:18.900> think<00:10:19.140> is<00:10:19.290> the<00:10:19.440> value<00:10:19.590> of<00:10:20.010> NDE<00:10:20.700> research?<00:10:21.270> I<00:10:22.430> think<00:10:23.430> that<00:10:23.670> they<00:10:24.120> have<00:10:24.510> two<00:10:25.550> important<00:10:26.550> values.<00:10:27.090> One

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is<00:10:28.440> that<00:10:28.830> they<00:10:29.040> have<00:10:29.070> to<00:10:29.580> be<00:10:29.790> at<00:10:30.090> the<00:10:30.300> cutting<00:10:30.540> edge<00:10:30.930> of<00:10:31.850> research<00:10:32.850> into<00:10:33.480> consciousness<00:10:34.730> and<00:10:35.730> one<00:10:36.690> of

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the<00:10:36.900> things<00:10:37.170> that<00:10:37.380> we're<00:10:37.590> learning<00:10:37.770> is<00:10:38.190> that<00:10:38.400> very<00:10:38.790> powerful<00:10:39.440> experiences<00:10:40.440> change<00:10:40.830> people<00:10:41.370> who<00:10:41.460> have<00:10:41.700> them<00:10:41.970> and<00:10:42.360> so<00:10:43.290> people<00:10:43.530> who<00:10:43.710> have<00:10:43.890> near-death<00:10:44.400> experiences<00:10:45.210> are

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changed<00:10:46.500> because<00:10:47.130> of<00:10:47.160> them<00:10:47.550> and<00:10:47.820> so<00:10:48.000> that's<00:10:48.180> an<00:10:48.390> interesting<00:10:49.080> fact<00:10:49.740> which<00:10:50.070> we<00:10:50.310> need<00:10:50.520> to<00:10:50.850> need<00:10:51.690> to<00:10:51.720> look<00:10:52.110> at.<00:10:52.320> The<00:10:52.980> phenomenology<00:10:53.640> of<00:10:54.000> them

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gives<00:10:55.140> us<00:10:55.320> some<00:10:55.800> idea<00:10:56.610> about<00:10:56.970> the<00:10:57.750> nature<00:10:58.080> and<00:10:58.350> structure<00:10:58.830> of<00:10:59.100> consciousness,<00:10:59.600> so<00:11:00.600> from<00:11:00.810> that<00:11:00.990> point<00:11:01.320> of<00:11:01.500> view<00:11:01.650> they're<00:11:01.950> extremely<00:11:02.400> good<00:11:02.610> and

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because<00:11:04.320> they've<00:11:04.530> come<00:11:04.770> to<00:11:04.950> be<00:11:05.100> associated,<00:11:05.750> love<00:11:06.750> pointed<00:11:07.140> out<00:11:07.290> that<00:11:07.590> this<00:11:07.830> is<00:11:07.980> just<00:11:08.160> an<00:11:08.340> association,<00:11:08.700> they're<00:11:09.390> much<00:11:09.570> wider<00:11:09.900> than<00:11:10.200> that,<00:11:10.280> with<00:11:11.330> cardiac

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arrest<00:11:12.870> and<00:11:13.370> actual<00:11:14.370> death<00:11:14.730> experiences.<00:11:15.720> Are<00:11:16.560> they<00:11:17.040> a<00:11:17.420> good<00:11:18.420> model<00:11:18.720> of<00:11:19.080> how<00:11:19.590> we<00:11:19.620> die?<00:11:20.090> So<00:11:21.090> from

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all<00:11:22.110> those<00:11:22.380> reasons<00:11:22.950> I<00:11:23.160> think<00:11:23.400> they're<00:11:23.610> very<00:11:23.640> important.<00:11:24.510> Do<00:11:24.990> you<00:11:25.050> think<00:11:25.140> that<00:11:25.380> near-death<00:11:25.890> experiences<00:11:26.520> provide<00:11:26.910> some<00:11:27.210> kind<00:11:27.420> of<00:11:27.540> proof<00:11:27.810> that<00:11:28.490> consciousness<00:11:29.490> can<00:11:29.790> exist

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without<00:11:30.570> a<00:11:30.810> brain?<00:11:31.370> Is<00:11:32.370> consciousness<00:11:33.380> independent<00:11:34.380> of<00:11:34.530> the<00:11:34.650> brain?<00:11:34.920> That's<00:11:35.250> a<00:11:35.430> very<00:11:35.820> wide<00:11:36.150> question<00:11:36.990> and<00:11:37.230> I<00:11:38.220> wouldn't

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look,<00:11:40.220> can<00:11:41.810> consciousness<00:11:42.810> exist<00:11:43.440> without<00:11:44.130> a<00:11:44.340> brain?<00:11:44.790> Yes,<00:11:46.220> well<00:11:47.220> we'd

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have<00:11:47.490> no<00:11:47.850> way<00:11:47.880> of<00:11:48.060> knowing<00:11:48.600> would<00:11:48.780> we?<00:11:50.850> So<00:11:51.899> the<00:11:52.899> question<00:11:53.589> is<00:11:53.709> a<00:11:53.740> good<00:11:53.860> one.<00:11:54.069> I'd<00:11:54.370> formulate<00:11:54.879> it<00:11:55.029> slightly<00:11:55.269> differently.<00:11:55.930> I

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would<00:11:57.040> say<00:11:57.279> of<00:11:57.759> the<00:11:58.540> mechanists,<00:11:59.319> right,<00:11:59.829> is<00:12:00.629> consciousness<00:12:01.629> secreted<00:12:02.499> by<00:12:02.529> the<00:12:02.800> brain<00:12:03.249> as<00:12:03.850> the<00:12:04.839> brain

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as<00:12:05.529> the<00:12:05.980> liver<00:12:06.220> secretes<00:12:06.519> bile,<00:12:07.209> that<00:12:08.050> sort<00:12:08.379> of<00:12:08.499> thing,<00:12:08.740> or<00:12:09.009> the<00:12:09.189> kidneys<00:12:09.670> urine?<00:12:10.240> Is<00:12:10.449> it<00:12:10.629> a<00:12:11.170> product<00:12:12.160> of<00:12:12.550> brain<00:12:13.240> function

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or<00:12:14.230> is<00:12:14.800> it<00:12:15.009> in<00:12:15.189> fact<00:12:15.490> a<00:12:15.879> filter<00:12:16.629> in<00:12:16.809> some<00:12:17.110> way?<00:12:17.350> That<00:12:18.129> there<00:12:18.339> is<00:12:18.459> in<00:12:18.670> fact<00:12:18.699> a<00:12:19.059> transcendent<00:12:19.870> reality<00:12:19.990> out<00:12:20.740> there<00:12:21.160> that<00:12:22.059> is

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filtered<00:12:23.410> by<00:12:23.709> the<00:12:23.769> brain<00:12:24.220> so<00:12:25.029> we<00:12:25.300> get<00:12:25.540> a<00:12:26.339> reduced<00:12:27.339> picture<00:12:28.240> of<00:12:28.480> it.<00:12:28.720> And<00:12:29.550> I<00:12:30.550> think<00:12:30.910> those

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are<00:12:31.480> the<00:12:31.540> two<00:12:31.779> questions.<00:12:31.990> I<00:12:32.680> mean<00:12:32.860> I<00:12:32.949> know<00:12:33.009> what<00:12:33.249> my<00:12:33.459> answer<00:12:33.490> is<00:12:34.240> but<00:12:35.170> it's<00:12:35.980> not<00:12:36.069> the<00:12:36.699> usual<00:12:36.910> answer.<00:12:37.300> Why<00:12:38.170> is<00:12:38.230> that?<00:12:38.730> Why<00:12:39.730> do

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I<00:12:40.389> believe<00:12:40.720> that<00:12:41.759> consciousness<00:12:42.779> exists<00:12:43.779> beyond<00:12:44.350> the<00:12:44.529> brain<00:12:45.089> rather<00:12:46.089> than<00:12:46.569> that<00:12:47.230> it's<00:12:47.759> secreted<00:12:48.759> like

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bile<00:12:49.569> in<00:12:49.990> the<00:12:50.379> brain?<00:12:50.649> The<00:12:51.490> answer<00:12:51.850> to<00:12:52.029> that<00:12:52.300> is<00:12:52.749> that<00:12:53.970> why<00:12:54.970> would<00:12:55.300> you<00:12:55.480> think<00:12:55.839> it<00:12:56.110> was<00:12:56.259> only<00:12:56.470> brain<00:12:56.920> function?<00:12:57.639> And

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if<00:12:58.839> you<00:12:59.079> look<00:12:59.379> at<00:12:59.649> the<00:13:00.160> arguments<00:13:01.120> which<00:13:01.300> you<00:13:01.449> put<00:13:01.660> forward,<00:13:01.959> there's<00:13:02.319> got<00:13:02.709> to<00:13:02.889> be<00:13:02.949> a<00:13:03.100> very<00:13:03.670> high<00:13:03.970> correlation<00:13:04.300> between<00:13:05.790> brain<00:13:06.790> damage

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and<00:13:07.750> the<00:13:08.529> changes<00:13:09.519> in<00:13:10.209> the<00:13:11.110> mind<00:13:11.709> and<00:13:12.550> in<00:13:12.699> the<00:13:12.850> capabilities<00:13:13.750> and<00:13:14.199> so<00:13:14.410> on<00:13:14.589> of<00:13:14.860> the<00:13:14.980> person<00:13:15.930> who's

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damaged.<00:13:17.500> There's<00:13:17.889> got<00:13:18.069> to<00:13:18.220> be<00:13:18.279> a<00:13:18.370> very<00:13:18.639> high<00:13:18.879> correlation<00:13:19.180> but<00:13:19.839> that<00:13:20.050> doesn't<00:13:20.470> say<00:13:20.709> anything<00:13:21.120> about<00:13:22.120> causation<00:13:23.069> because<00:13:24.120> causation<00:13:25.120> and

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correlation<00:13:25.329> are<00:13:26.199> quite<00:13:26.439> different.<00:13:26.769> And<00:13:27.250> if<00:13:28.059> you<00:13:28.240> want<00:13:28.509> a<00:13:28.720> really<00:13:29.230> good<00:13:29.439> authority<00:13:30.069> for<00:13:30.370> this<00:13:30.550> statement<00:13:30.879> you<00:13:31.389> can<00:13:32.290> think<00:13:32.620> about<00:13:33.389> Penfield.

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Penfield<00:13:35.651> was<00:13:36.382> a<00:13:37.112> very<00:13:37.843> very<00:13:38.574> well<00:13:39.305> known<00:13:40.036> neurosurgeon<00:13:40.767> from<00:13:41.497> Canada<00:13:42.228> and<00:13:42.959> Penfield

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put<00:13:45.009> electrodes<00:13:45.670> in<00:13:45.939> the<00:13:45.999> brain,<00:13:46.149> he's<00:13:46.720> one<00:13:46.929> of<00:13:46.959> the<00:13:47.139> first<00:13:47.410> people<00:13:47.679> to<00:13:48.009> do<00:13:48.220> it,<00:13:48.279> got<00:13:49.120> a<00:13:49.149> very<00:13:49.269> good<00:13:49.899> idea<00:13:50.439> of<00:13:50.709> what<00:13:51.569> how<00:13:52.569> the

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brain<00:13:53.005> functions<00:13:53.380> and<00:13:53.756> how<00:13:54.132> it<00:13:54.507> was<00:13:54.883> connected<00:13:55.259> together<00:13:55.634> and<00:13:56.010> so<00:13:56.386> on.<00:13:56.761> So<00:13:57.137> he<00:13:57.512> spent<00:13:57.888> his<00:13:58.264> life<00:13:58.639> actually<00:13:59.015> looking<00:13:59.391> at<00:13:59.766> the<00:14:00.142> brain<00:14:00.518> and<00:14:00.893> at<00:14:01.269> the

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end<00:14:01.877> he<00:14:02.305> wrote<00:14:02.733> a<00:14:03.161> book<00:14:03.589> about<00:14:04.017> what<00:14:04.445> did<00:14:04.873> he<00:14:05.301> think,<00:14:05.728> what<00:14:06.156> is<00:14:06.584> mind.<00:14:07.012> He<00:14:07.440> came<00:14:07.868> to<00:14:08.296> say<00:14:08.724> there's<00:14:09.152> absolutely<00:14:09.580> no

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doubt<00:14:10.150> that<00:14:10.560> neurons<00:14:12.150> communicate<00:14:13.150> with<00:14:13.660> each<00:14:14.050> other<00:14:14.260> in<00:14:14.560> very<00:14:14.890> complex<00:14:15.430> ways<00:14:15.610> and<00:14:16.180> complex<00:14:16.720> ways<00:14:17.020> we<00:14:17.200> don't<00:14:17.350> understand<00:14:18.010> yet

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but<00:14:18.794> the<00:14:19.338> energy<00:14:19.882> of<00:14:20.426> mind<00:14:20.970> is<00:14:21.514> different.<00:14:22.058> And<00:14:22.602> so<00:14:23.146> however<00:14:23.690> much<00:14:24.234> you<00:14:24.778> study<00:14:25.322> in<00:14:25.866> the<00:14:26.410> neurons

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you<00:14:27.160> will<00:14:27.339> not<00:14:27.610> in<00:14:27.850> fact<00:14:28.180> get<00:14:29.170> to<00:14:29.589> the<00:14:29.920> energy<00:14:30.610> of<00:14:30.730> mind,<00:14:31.029> so<00:14:31.360> it's<00:14:31.510> a<00:14:31.570> different<00:14:32.080> dimension<00:14:33.010> altogether.<00:14:33.870> Now<00:14:34.870> that's<00:14:35.080> from

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somebody<00:14:35.710> who<00:14:35.800> spent<00:14:36.100> his<00:14:36.250> life<00:14:36.490> studying<00:14:36.730> the<00:14:37.240> brain.<00:14:37.480> But<00:14:38.260> on<00:14:38.380> the<00:14:38.500> other<00:14:38.589> hand<00:14:38.740> you<00:14:39.670> can<00:14:39.850> get<00:14:40.029> philosophers<00:14:40.690> like<00:14:40.900> Dan<00:14:41.230> Dennett<00:14:41.589> who<00:14:42.430> says<00:14:42.730> it's<00:14:43.180> all<00:14:43.450> brain.

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I<00:14:44.320> was<00:14:45.100> sitting<00:14:45.370> next<00:14:45.400> to<00:14:45.790> Dan<00:14:46.029> Dennett<00:14:46.300> at<00:14:46.600> a<00:14:46.660> conference<00:14:46.900> once<00:14:47.560> and<00:14:47.920> I<00:14:47.980> said,<00:14:48.190> Dan,<00:14:48.430> you<00:14:48.670> don't<00:14:48.850> really<00:14:49.450> believe<00:14:49.810> that<00:14:50.050> do<00:14:50.650> you?<00:14:50.680> When<00:14:51.520> you<00:14:51.640> understand<00:14:52.300> when

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we<00:14:53.600> understand<00:14:54.180> the<00:14:54.760> neurons<00:14:55.340> and<00:14:55.920> we<00:14:56.500> understand<00:14:57.080> consciousness.<00:14:57.660> He<00:14:58.240> said,<00:14:58.820> absolutely,<00:14:59.400> when<00:14:59.980> we've<00:15:00.560> understood<00:15:01.140> the<00:15:01.720> neurons

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then<00:15:03.190> there<00:15:03.400> will<00:15:03.490> be<00:15:03.520> nothing<00:15:04.029> left,<00:15:04.270> maybe<00:15:04.839> a<00:15:05.050> little<00:15:05.680> smidgen<00:15:06.160> like<00:15:06.640> that,<00:15:06.910> but<00:15:07.390> that's<00:15:07.600> all.<00:15:07.839> It's<00:15:08.770> only<00:15:09.100> the<00:15:09.610> brain<00:15:09.850> and<00:15:10.240> that's<00:15:10.420> so

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you've<00:15:10.839> got<00:15:11.020> the<00:15:11.200> two<00:15:11.410> camps<00:15:11.950> and<00:15:12.160> each<00:15:13.120> camp<00:15:13.510> will<00:15:13.900> in<00:15:14.110> fact<00:15:14.410> put<00:15:14.800> forward<00:15:15.100> evidence<00:15:15.780> as<00:15:16.780> to<00:15:17.110> why<00:15:17.470> they're<00:15:17.800> right<00:15:18.900> but

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of<00:15:20.412> course<00:15:20.924> I<00:15:21.435> sit<00:15:21.947> in<00:15:22.459> between.<00:15:22.971> The<00:15:23.483> brain<00:15:23.995> is<00:15:24.506> enormously<00:15:25.018> important,<00:15:25.530> has<00:15:26.042> great<00:15:26.554> functions,<00:15:27.065> but<00:15:27.577> it<00:15:28.089> can't

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explain<00:15:29.206> consciousness.<00:15:29.663> There<00:15:30.119> is<00:15:30.575> only<00:15:31.032> one<00:15:31.488> theory<00:15:31.944> in<00:15:32.401> this<00:15:32.857> whole<00:15:33.313> world<00:15:33.769> of<00:15:34.226> what<00:15:34.682> consciousness<00:15:35.138> is<00:15:35.595> and<00:15:36.051> this<00:15:36.507> is<00:15:36.964> Stuart<00:15:37.420> Hameroff's

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and<00:15:38.202> Roger<00:15:38.744> Penrose's<00:15:39.286> theory<00:15:39.828> and<00:15:40.370> this<00:15:40.912> is<00:15:41.454> that<00:15:41.996> the<00:15:42.538> brain<00:15:43.080> in<00:15:43.622> the<00:15:44.164> microtubules,<00:15:44.706> these<00:15:45.248> are<00:15:45.790> structures

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within<00:15:46.540> the<00:15:46.720> brain,<00:15:47.170> acts<00:15:47.920> as<00:15:48.400> a<00:15:48.670> quantum<00:15:49.570> mechanical<00:15:49.680> computer<00:15:50.680> and<00:15:51.150> that<00:15:52.150> it<00:15:52.990> is<00:15:53.320> within<00:15:53.830> that<00:15:55.410> collapse

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of<00:15:56.740> the<00:15:56.860> wavefunction<00:15:57.130> in<00:15:58.060> the<00:15:58.330> tubules<00:15:58.900> that<00:15:59.830> consciousness,<00:16:01.020> undifferentiated,<00:16:02.400> unattached,<00:16:03.690> arises.<00:16:04.690> So

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think<00:16:05.890> of<00:16:06.040> the<00:16:06.360> huge<00:16:07.360> matrix<00:16:07.779> of<00:16:08.320> the<00:16:08.470> brain<00:16:08.740> and<00:16:09.070> these<00:16:09.550> little<00:16:09.790> points<00:16:10.330> of<00:16:10.510> consciousness<00:16:10.870> coming<00:16:11.709> into<00:16:11.860> the<00:16:12.070> brain.<00:16:12.220> Then<00:16:13.000> of<00:16:13.150> course<00:16:13.420> consciousness

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is<00:16:14.780> woven<00:16:15.150> into<00:16:15.520> the<00:16:15.890> brain<00:16:16.260> and<00:16:16.630> into<00:16:17.000> the<00:16:17.370> circuits<00:16:17.740> of<00:16:18.110> the<00:16:18.480> brain<00:16:18.850> and<00:16:19.220> then<00:16:19.590> you<00:16:19.960> build<00:16:20.330> it<00:16:20.700> up<00:16:21.070> into<00:16:21.440> self-consciousness.<00:16:21.810> Now<00:16:22.180> that<00:16:22.550> is

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about<00:16:23.029> the<00:16:23.300> only<00:16:23.329> theory<00:16:24.230> I<00:16:24.259> know<00:16:24.670> that<00:16:25.670> actually<00:16:26.269> allows<00:16:26.600> consciousness<00:16:27.790> to<00:16:28.790> arise<00:16:29.120> in<00:16:29.149> any<00:16:29.779> way<00:16:30.050> at<00:16:30.259> all,<00:16:30.470> so<00:16:31.160> it's

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an<00:16:31.519> important<00:16:32.029> theory.<00:16:32.269> You've<00:16:32.839> written<00:16:32.990> a<00:16:33.139> book<00:16:33.319> about<00:16:33.920> the<00:16:34.370> art<00:16:34.550> of<00:16:34.730> dying<00:16:34.999> and<00:16:35.410> described<00:16:36.410> a<00:16:36.800> number<00:16:37.160> of<00:16:37.540> end-of-life<00:16:38.540> phenomena.<00:16:39.290> Can<00:16:40.160> you

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tell<00:16:40.430> us<00:16:40.519> about<00:16:40.790> them?<00:16:41.410> I<00:16:42.410> have<00:16:43.220> written<00:16:43.459> a<00:16:43.639> book<00:16:43.819> called<00:16:44.149> The<00:16:44.689> Art<00:16:44.720> of<00:16:45.079> Dying<00:16:45.319> and<00:16:46.089> I<00:16:47.089> wrote<00:16:47.839> it<00:16:48.110> because<00:16:49.009> I

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asked<00:16:50.389> a<00:16:50.509> question.<00:16:51.100> It<00:16:52.100> came<00:16:52.399> right<00:16:53.120> out<00:16:53.149> of<00:16:53.449> the<00:16:54.230> near-death<00:16:54.910> experience<00:16:55.910> research.<00:16:57.459> The

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research<00:16:58.879> said<00:16:59.709> that<00:17:00.709> you<00:17:00.889> go<00:17:01.040> down<00:17:01.249> a<00:17:01.279> tunnel<00:17:02.050> in<00:17:03.050> in<00:17:03.559> our<00:17:03.740> culture,<00:17:04.299> you<00:17:05.299> meet<00:17:05.480> a<00:17:05.510> being<00:17:05.839> of<00:17:06.020> light,<00:17:06.279> you<00:17:07.279> go

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into<00:17:07.760> this<00:17:07.939> transcendent<00:17:08.809> reality<00:17:09.610> where<00:17:10.610> you<00:17:10.760> meet<00:17:11.029> dead<00:17:11.569> relatives<00:17:12.140> and<00:17:12.579> spiritual<00:17:13.579> beings,<00:17:14.000> you<00:17:14.870> may<00:17:15.110> have<00:17:15.380> a<00:17:15.409> life<00:17:15.709> review,

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then<00:17:17.089> you'll<00:17:17.270> come<00:17:17.569> to<00:17:17.750> a<00:17:17.809> border<00:17:18.289> which<00:17:19.250> if<00:17:19.459> you<00:17:19.640> cross<00:17:19.970> you<00:17:20.270> know<00:17:20.299> you're<00:17:20.659> going<00:17:20.839> to<00:17:20.959> die.<00:17:21.520> So<00:17:22.520> it's<00:17:23.480> a<00:17:23.779> perfectly<00:17:24.380> valid

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question<00:17:24.860> to<00:17:25.549> ask,<00:17:26.020> is<00:17:27.020> this<00:17:28.210> near-death<00:17:29.210> experience<00:17:30.110> a<00:17:30.320> model<00:17:31.010> of<00:17:31.460> what<00:17:32.029> will<00:17:32.210> happen<00:17:32.240> when<00:17:32.779> you

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die?<00:17:33.309> So<00:17:34.309> we<00:17:34.789> can<00:17:35.090> actually<00:17:35.570> do<00:17:35.809> that.<00:17:36.049> So<00:17:36.940> how<00:17:37.940> do<00:17:38.000> you<00:17:38.149> validate<00:17:38.419> that<00:17:38.990> model?<00:17:39.409> What<00:17:40.250> you<00:17:40.460> do<00:17:40.700> is<00:17:40.850> you

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find<00:17:41.330> out<00:17:41.659> what<00:17:41.960> the<00:17:42.110> mental<00:17:42.470> experiences<00:17:43.279> are<00:17:43.580> of<00:17:44.240> the<00:17:44.990> dying.<00:17:45.490> Now<00:17:46.490> in<00:17:46.789> 2000<00:17:47.690> when<00:17:47.990> I<00:17:48.230> started<00:17:48.919> on<00:17:49.070> this

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research<00:17:49.700> you<00:17:50.659> could<00:17:50.840> go<00:17:51.080> into<00:17:52.149> PubMed,<00:17:53.149> one<00:17:53.720> of<00:17:53.870> the<00:17:53.990> main<00:17:54.260> medical<00:17:55.250> databases,<00:17:55.820> and<00:17:56.330> ask<00:17:57.289> questions.

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Like<00:17:58.460> how<00:17:59.330> many<00:17:59.390> people<00:17:59.659> have<00:17:59.990> published<00:18:00.880> papers<00:18:01.880> on<00:18:02.059> deathbed<00:18:02.600> visions<00:18:03.049> during<00:18:03.770> about<00:18:04.039> five?<00:18:04.720> What<00:18:05.720> about<00:18:06.100> end-of-life

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experiences?<00:18:08.299> Maybe<00:18:09.049> one<00:18:09.380> or<00:18:09.559> two,<00:18:09.590> and<00:18:10.460> so<00:18:10.640> you<00:18:10.700> could<00:18:10.970> become<00:18:11.149> a<00:18:11.330> world<00:18:11.659> expert,<00:18:11.960> you<00:18:12.470> see,<00:18:12.649> very<00:18:12.890> quickly.<00:18:13.100> You<00:18:13.460> only<00:18:13.610> had<00:18:13.789> to<00:18:13.909> look<00:18:13.940> at<00:18:14.240> seven<00:18:14.600> papers<00:18:15.049> and<00:18:15.230> you<00:18:15.320> knew

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the<00:18:15.740> literature.<00:18:16.279> And<00:18:16.600> so<00:18:17.600> what<00:18:17.990> I'm<00:18:18.200> saying<00:18:18.559> is<00:18:18.919> that<00:18:18.980> there<00:18:19.370> wasn't<00:18:19.850> anything<00:18:20.330> there.<00:18:21.220> So<00:18:22.220> we<00:18:22.940> went<00:18:23.120> along<00:18:23.330> to<00:18:23.690> our

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ethics<00:18:24.140> committee<00:18:24.500> and<00:18:24.830> said,<00:18:25.549> "Could<00:18:25.820> we<00:18:25.970> please<00:18:26.210> talk<00:18:26.830> to<00:18:27.830> the<00:18:27.980> dying<00:18:28.309> so<00:18:29.149> we<00:18:29.179> could<00:18:29.450> get<00:18:29.570> some<00:18:30.100> of<00:18:30.280> what<00:18:30.460> the<00:18:30.610> process<00:18:30.850> of<00:18:31.210> dying<00:18:31.450> was<00:18:31.660> like?"<00:18:31.929> Those

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who<00:18:32.890> paid<00:18:33.130> back<00:18:33.400> in<00:18:33.610> 2000,<00:18:34.480> and<00:18:34.919> they<00:18:35.919> quite<00:18:36.340> rightly<00:18:36.669> said,<00:18:37.120> I<00:18:37.150> think,<00:18:37.630> "No,<00:18:38.500> because<00:18:39.100> you<00:18:39.220> may<00:18:39.400> disturb<00:18:39.789> the<00:18:40.059> dying."<00:18:40.360> But<00:18:40.900> why

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did<00:18:41.320> they<00:18:41.470> say<00:18:41.799> that?<00:18:41.850> They<00:18:42.850> said<00:18:43.270> it<00:18:43.419> because<00:18:43.840> nobody<00:18:44.470> had<00:18:44.679> ever<00:18:44.919> done<00:18:45.070> that<00:18:45.580> before,<00:18:46.090> and<00:18:46.120> they<00:18:46.419> actually<00:18:47.020> didn't<00:18:47.380> know.<00:18:48.030> So<00:18:49.030> we<00:18:49.780> had

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find<00:18:58.990> that<00:18:59.140> it's<00:18:59.470> divided<00:19:00.220> into<00:19:00.370> bands.<00:19:01.140> Through<00:19:02.140> the<00:19:02.289> nurses<00:19:02.799> who<00:19:03.220> are<00:19:03.250> in<00:19:03.370> touch<00:19:03.580> with<00:19:03.820> the<00:19:03.909> patients,<00:19:04.480> they<00:19:04.750> see<00:19:04.809> all<00:19:05.200> the<00:19:05.590> phenomena<00:19:06.130> of<00:19:06.159> dying,<00:19:06.580> and

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the<00:19:07.510> doctors<00:19:08.020> who<00:19:08.650> arm<00:19:09.220> and<00:19:09.429> say,<00:19:09.909> "It<00:19:09.970> doesn't<00:19:10.360> occur."<00:19:10.890> So<00:19:11.890> there<00:19:12.429> is<00:19:12.549> really<00:19:13.299> quite<00:19:13.690> a<00:19:13.830> significant<00:19:16.110> difference

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between<00:19:17.260> these<00:19:17.890> two,<00:19:18.280> and<00:19:18.990> I<00:19:19.990> have<00:19:20.169> some<00:19:20.350> really<00:19:20.679> interesting<00:19:20.980> stories<00:19:21.880> about<00:19:22.890> this<00:19:23.890> gap<00:19:24.309> between<00:19:24.730> medical<00:19:25.600> and

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the<00:19:25.780> nursing<00:19:26.200> staff.<00:19:26.440> As<00:19:26.770> I<00:19:26.890> say,<00:19:27.100> it's<00:19:27.250> less<00:19:27.460> now.<00:19:29.490> I'll<00:19:30.490> tell<00:19:30.789> you<00:19:30.940> why<00:19:31.240> I<00:19:31.270> did<00:19:31.720> it,<00:19:31.870> then<00:19:32.049> I'll<00:19:32.200> tell<00:19:32.409> you<00:19:32.530> the<00:19:32.710> stories<00:19:33.159> afterwards,<00:19:33.730> because

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it<00:19:34.090> makes<00:19:34.270> more<00:19:34.450> sense<00:19:34.780> that<00:19:34.900> way.<00:19:36.570> So<00:19:37.980> the<00:19:38.980> ethics<00:19:39.460> committee<00:19:39.610> said,<00:19:40.440> "You<00:19:41.440> can<00:19:41.620> do<00:19:41.740> a<00:19:41.770> carer<00:19:42.100> study,

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but<00:19:43.360> you<00:19:43.539> can't<00:19:43.750> ask<00:19:43.960> the<00:19:44.169> dying."<00:19:44.470> So<00:19:45.340> we<00:19:45.370> actually<00:19:45.669> did<00:19:46.630> a<00:19:46.659> carer<00:19:47.049> study.<00:19:47.580> We<00:19:48.580> did<00:19:49.169> three<00:19:50.169> hospices<00:19:50.740> in

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a<00:19:51.292> nursing<00:19:51.694> home<00:19:52.096> in<00:19:52.498> this<00:19:52.900> country,<00:19:53.302> and<00:19:53.704> we<00:19:54.106> did<00:19:54.508> three<00:19:54.910> hospices<00:19:55.311> in<00:19:55.713> Rotterdam<00:19:56.115> to<00:19:56.517> get<00:19:56.919> a<00:19:57.321> cross-cultural<00:19:57.723> component.<00:19:58.125> It's<00:19:58.527> not<00:19:58.929> very

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it's<00:20:08.470> allowed<00:20:08.830> us<00:20:09.039> to<00:20:09.070> put<00:20:09.340> together<00:20:09.490> a<00:20:11.250> measure<00:20:12.250> of<00:20:12.669> the<00:20:12.940> sorts<00:20:13.390> of<00:20:13.480> things<00:20:13.750> that<00:20:13.870> you<00:20:14.169> can<00:20:14.350> expect.<00:20:15.809> The<00:20:16.809> first

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thing<00:20:17.409> that<00:20:17.650> you<00:20:18.039> may<00:20:18.309> get<00:20:18.640> is<00:20:19.049> a<00:20:20.049> premonition,<00:20:20.880> and<00:20:21.880> that<00:20:22.090> means<00:20:22.419> that<00:20:22.840> you<00:20:23.230> know<00:20:23.470> you're<00:20:23.679> going<00:20:23.890> to<00:20:23.980> die.<00:20:24.250> So<00:20:24.580> before<00:20:25.000> you<00:20:25.120> get

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the<00:20:25.480> diagnosis,<00:20:26.350> you<00:20:26.820> learn<00:20:27.820> in<00:20:28.030> a<00:20:28.150> dream,<00:20:28.539> maybe,<00:20:29.470> or<00:20:30.429> it<00:20:31.120> suddenly<00:20:31.659> comes<00:20:32.020> to<00:20:32.289> you<00:20:32.380> that<00:20:32.650> you're<00:20:32.830> going<00:20:32.980> to<00:20:33.100> die<00:20:33.429> soon.

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This<00:20:35.409> is<00:20:35.470> the<00:20:35.650> patients<00:20:36.280> or<00:20:36.490> the<00:20:36.580> relatives<00:20:37.059> know.<00:20:37.659> The<00:20:38.230> patient's...<00:20:39.000> the<00:20:40.000> Dalai<00:20:40.390> Lama<00:20:40.419> says<00:20:41.230> all<00:20:41.740> of<00:20:42.130> us<00:20:42.789> know

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two<00:20:43.269> years<00:20:44.019> before<00:20:44.379> we're<00:20:44.799> going<00:20:45.009> to<00:20:45.219> die<00:20:45.399> that<00:20:45.669> we're<00:20:45.849> going<00:20:46.059> to<00:20:46.179> die.<00:20:46.479> So<00:20:47.320> we're<00:20:47.529> given<00:20:47.799> that<00:20:47.979> information.<00:20:48.539> If<00:20:49.539> you<00:20:49.690> look<00:20:49.929> in<00:20:50.079> his<00:20:50.199> book<00:20:50.409> to<00:20:50.619> see<00:20:50.829> how<00:20:51.129> we<00:20:51.190> know,<00:20:51.639> he

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says<00:20:52.629> two<00:20:52.899> things,<00:20:52.929> one<00:20:53.829> of<00:20:53.859> which<00:20:54.039> I<00:20:54.579> can<00:20:54.969> understand<00:20:55.509> slightly,<00:20:56.199> and<00:20:56.320> that<00:20:56.440> is<00:20:56.619> the<00:20:56.889> behavior<00:20:57.459> changes,<00:20:58.059> and<00:20:58.269> the<00:20:59.049> other<00:20:59.259> is<00:20:59.649> that<00:20:59.979> our<00:21:00.129> breathing<00:21:00.459> changes.

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Well,<00:21:01.659> I<00:21:01.690> don't<00:21:01.989> know<00:21:02.109> what<00:21:02.259> he<00:21:02.409> means<00:21:02.619> by<00:21:02.829> that,<00:21:02.979> but<00:21:03.820> I<00:21:03.940> can<00:21:04.179> see<00:21:04.419> that<00:21:04.659> one's<00:21:04.869> behavior<00:21:05.139> may<00:21:05.739> change.<00:21:06.159> You<00:21:07.119> may<00:21:07.299> get<00:21:07.539> the<00:21:07.719> feeling<00:21:08.109> that<00:21:08.199> you're<00:21:08.440> going<00:21:08.589> to<00:21:08.709> die,<00:21:08.979> and<00:21:09.039> then

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of<00:21:09.429> course<00:21:09.459> your<00:21:09.820> behavior<00:21:10.269> will<00:21:10.449> change.<00:21:11.309> But<00:21:12.309> he<00:21:12.489> says<00:21:12.729> it's<00:21:12.940> very<00:21:12.999> common,<00:21:13.599> in<00:21:13.749> fact<00:21:13.899> it's<00:21:14.169> everyone.<00:21:14.649> We<00:21:15.579> didn't<00:21:15.940> find<00:21:16.149> that;<00:21:16.299> we<00:21:16.629> felt<00:21:16.869> it<00:21:17.049> was<00:21:17.259> not<00:21:18.129> common,

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but<00:21:19.809> not<00:21:20.109> so<00:21:20.829> rare<00:21:21.190> that<00:21:21.219> we<00:21:21.639> couldn't<00:21:21.940> pick<00:21:22.179> up<00:21:22.829> occasional<00:21:23.829> cases<00:21:24.309> of<00:21:24.519> it.<00:21:25.739> The<00:21:26.739> next<00:21:27.729> thing

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that<00:21:28.698> happens<00:21:29.306> is<00:21:29.915> that<00:21:30.523> a<00:21:31.132> few<00:21:31.740> weeks<00:21:32.349> before<00:21:32.958> you<00:21:33.566> die,<00:21:34.175> you<00:21:34.783> get<00:21:35.392> deathbed<00:21:36.000> visitors.<00:21:36.609> Now,

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what's<00:21:38.124> the<00:21:38.799> deathbed<00:21:39.474> visitor?<00:21:40.149> They<00:21:40.824> are<00:21:41.499> relatives<00:21:42.174> who<00:21:42.849> come<00:21:43.524> to<00:21:44.199> you.<00:21:44.874> They<00:21:45.549> do

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it<00:21:45.849> in<00:21:45.969> a<00:21:46.089> specific<00:21:46.269> way.<00:21:46.799> They<00:21:47.799> may<00:21:48.190> stand<00:21:48.579> outside<00:21:49.149> the<00:21:49.569> room<00:21:49.779> in<00:21:49.929> which<00:21:50.079> you're<00:21:50.289> dying,<00:21:50.589> or<00:21:51.579> they<00:21:52.209> may<00:21:52.449> come<00:21:52.779> into<00:21:52.989> the<00:21:53.229> room,<00:21:53.440> and<00:21:53.739> that's

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quite<00:21:54.190> common.<00:21:54.869> You<00:21:55.979> of<00:21:56.979> course<00:21:57.159> will<00:21:57.429> talk<00:21:57.759> to<00:21:57.999> them,<00:21:58.179> and<00:21:58.389> then<00:21:58.839> a<00:21:59.079> number<00:21:59.949> of<00:22:00.039> them<00:22:00.159> will<00:22:00.339> sit<00:22:00.579> on<00:22:00.699> the<00:22:00.940> bed<00:22:01.179> and<00:22:01.829> talk

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to<00:22:03.075> you.<00:22:03.322> Why<00:22:03.568> do<00:22:03.815> they<00:22:04.061> sit<00:22:04.308> on<00:22:04.554> the<00:22:04.800> bed?<00:22:05.047> Because<00:22:05.293> it's<00:22:05.540> enormously<00:22:05.786> comforting<00:22:06.033> to<00:22:06.279> you<00:22:06.525> to<00:22:06.772> have<00:22:07.018> somebody<00:22:07.265> sitting<00:22:07.511> on<00:22:07.758> the<00:22:08.004> bed.<00:22:08.250> I<00:22:08.497> mean,<00:22:08.743> if<00:22:08.990> you've<00:22:09.236> ever<00:22:09.483> had<00:22:09.729> any

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old<00:22:10.179> child,<00:22:10.539> you<00:22:11.319> know<00:22:11.469> you<00:22:11.529> don't<00:22:11.859> just<00:22:12.069> stand<00:22:12.309> up<00:22:12.579> and<00:22:12.759> talk<00:22:13.059> to<00:22:13.089> it;<00:22:13.299> you<00:22:13.509> go<00:22:13.659> and<00:22:13.809> sit<00:22:13.989> on<00:22:14.079> the<00:22:14.259> bed<00:22:14.440> and<00:22:14.469> hold<00:22:14.829> his<00:22:14.979> hand<00:22:15.009> and<00:22:15.489> so<00:22:15.669> on.<00:22:15.789> Well,<00:22:16.389> the<00:22:16.569> the<00:22:16.959> relatives<00:22:17.529> can<00:22:18.219> sit

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on<00:22:18.669> the<00:22:18.879> bed.<00:22:19.089> And<00:22:20.399> we<00:22:21.399> took<00:22:21.639> a<00:22:21.699> hundred<00:22:22.089> deathbed<00:22:22.839> visions<00:22:23.319> and<00:22:23.649> analyzed<00:22:24.190> them<00:22:24.459> for<00:22:24.669> content,<00:22:25.239> and<00:22:26.139> we<00:22:26.349> found<00:22:26.589> that

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the<00:22:28.409> communists<00:22:29.409> spoke...<00:22:29.679> people<00:22:30.069> who<00:22:30.219> come<00:22:30.459> are<00:22:30.489> first<00:22:30.879> degree,<00:22:31.059> but<00:22:31.539> relatives,<00:22:32.199> mother<00:22:32.949> and<00:22:33.219> father,<00:22:33.489> are<00:22:34.119> commonly<00:22:34.479> seen<00:22:35.249> dead.

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Spouses<00:22:36.999> are<00:22:37.179> quite<00:22:37.389> common,<00:22:37.899> but<00:22:38.499> we<00:22:38.679> also<00:22:38.829> in<00:22:39.219> fact<00:22:39.549> found<00:22:39.940> that<00:22:40.539> brothers<00:22:41.379> and<00:22:41.589> sisters<00:22:42.039> come,<00:22:42.839> people<00:22:43.839> you<00:22:44.019> don't<00:22:44.199> know,<00:22:45.629> occasionally,

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occasionally<00:22:48.959> animals.

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Not<00:22:52.539> many,<00:22:53.289> sorry<00:22:54.069> about<00:22:54.249> that.<00:22:54.429> Your<00:22:54.909> cat<00:22:55.209> or<00:22:55.239> your<00:22:55.610> dog<00:22:55.760> is<00:22:56.000> not<00:22:56.150> going<00:22:56.450> to<00:22:56.540> come<00:22:56.720> along.<00:22:58.330> So<00:22:59.330> it's<00:22:59.809> mainly

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the<00:23:19.429> hostel...<00:23:19.960> hospice,<00:23:20.960> and<00:23:21.470> they're<00:23:21.650> seen<00:23:21.890> through<00:23:22.160> the<00:23:22.280> window,<00:23:22.700> or<00:23:22.910> they<00:23:23.540> may<00:23:23.750> come<00:23:24.049> to<00:23:24.080> the<00:23:24.410> door,<00:23:24.679> and<00:23:25.040> some<00:23:25.880> of<00:23:25.970> them<00:23:26.090> come<00:23:26.330> in.<00:23:26.390> Now,<00:23:27.200> I

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must<00:23:27.679> point<00:23:27.950> out<00:23:28.160> that<00:23:28.220> this<00:23:28.700> is...<00:23:28.940> there's<00:23:29.240> a<00:23:29.299> big<00:23:29.750> cultural<00:23:30.380> element,<00:23:30.940> because<00:23:31.940> a<00:23:32.530> paper<00:23:33.530> published<00:23:34.040> from<00:23:34.750> the<00:23:35.950> Bible

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relative<00:23:37.490> of<00:23:38.020> America<00:23:39.020> showed<00:23:39.860> that<00:23:40.190> angels<00:23:40.790> were<00:23:41.030> seen<00:23:41.299> very<00:23:41.630> commonly.<00:23:42.309> Now,<00:23:43.309> in<00:23:43.730> our<00:23:44.120> sample,<00:23:44.750> only<00:23:44.929> three<00:23:45.320> percent

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of<00:23:46.910> people<00:23:47.090> saw<00:23:47.809> angels,<00:23:48.350> so<00:23:48.590> it's<00:23:48.740> much<00:23:49.010> smaller<00:23:49.309> over<00:23:49.820> here.<00:23:50.059> So<00:23:50.299> I<00:23:50.330> think<00:23:50.630> there<00:23:50.780> is<00:23:50.809> this<00:23:51.080> cultural<00:23:51.860> component<00:23:52.520> to<00:23:52.700> it.<00:23:52.790> So<00:23:53.090> there<00:23:53.240> are<00:23:53.360> visitors<00:23:54.020> and

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spiritual<00:23:54.980> beings.<00:23:55.280> Are<00:23:55.610> there<00:23:55.790> any<00:23:55.910> other<00:23:56.150> phenomena<00:23:57.110> around<00:23:57.440> this?<00:23:57.710> As<00:23:58.040> you<00:23:58.370> go<00:23:58.610> closer<00:23:59.059> to<00:23:59.450> death,<00:24:00.110> you<00:24:01.010> come<00:24:01.880> into<00:24:02.330> the

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next<00:24:02.900> stage,<00:24:03.380> and<00:24:03.919> in<00:24:04.490> fact<00:24:04.790> these<00:24:05.120> needed<00:24:05.600> to<00:24:05.630> be<00:24:05.840> changed<00:24:06.500> now<00:24:06.799> a<00:24:06.830> bit,<00:24:07.190> but<00:24:07.900> what<00:24:08.900> we<00:24:09.110> initially<00:24:09.350> found<00:24:09.950> was<00:24:10.309> that<00:24:10.340> you<00:24:10.880> went

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into<00:24:11.900> a<00:24:12.559> different<00:24:13.190> reality,<00:24:13.580> a<00:24:13.910> spiritual<00:24:14.630> world,<00:24:14.950> then<00:24:15.950> you<00:24:16.070> came<00:24:16.340> back<00:24:16.370> again.<00:24:17.030> So<00:24:17.299> this<00:24:17.450> was<00:24:17.720> as<00:24:18.290> if<00:24:18.559> you<00:24:18.770> were<00:24:18.919> getting<00:24:19.070> used<00:24:19.669> to

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the<00:24:20.210> spiritual<00:24:20.780> world.<00:24:20.809> So<00:24:21.320> you<00:24:21.410> went<00:24:21.620> into<00:24:22.010> it<00:24:22.100> and<00:24:22.309> came<00:24:22.549> back,<00:24:22.580> and<00:24:23.120> went<00:24:23.330> into<00:24:23.720> it<00:24:23.840> and<00:24:24.020> came<00:24:24.260> back,<00:24:24.290> and<00:24:25.270> it<00:24:26.270> was<00:24:26.480> very<00:24:26.690> important<00:24:27.380> for<00:24:27.559> the<00:24:27.650> people<00:24:27.830> who<00:24:28.190> were

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dying.<00:24:29.980> And<00:24:31.990> now<00:24:33.040> that<00:24:34.040> is<00:24:34.280> changing,<00:24:35.090> and<00:24:35.380> I<00:24:36.380> want

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to<00:24:36.980> talk<00:24:37.250> about<00:24:37.429> Monica<00:24:38.419> Renz's<00:24:39.429> theory<00:24:40.429> on<00:24:40.640> this,<00:24:40.970> because<00:24:41.570> it's<00:24:41.780> absolutely<00:24:42.049> vital.<00:24:43.400> Monica<00:24:44.030> Renz<00:24:44.480> is<00:24:44.780> a<00:24:45.490> theologian

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in<00:24:47.240> Switzerland,<00:24:48.080> and<00:24:48.350> she<00:24:49.690> has<00:24:50.799> had<00:24:51.799> a<00:24:51.830> lot<00:24:52.190> of<00:24:52.340> contact<00:24:52.880> with<00:24:53.059> the<00:24:53.179> dying,<00:24:53.600> and<00:24:53.960> she's<00:24:54.830> done...

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published<00:24:55.920> three<00:24:56.650> studies<00:24:57.380> now<00:24:58.110> with<00:24:58.840> cancer<00:24:59.570> patients<00:25:00.300> who<00:25:01.030> are<00:25:01.760> dying,<00:25:02.490> and<00:25:03.220> one<00:25:03.950> study

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was,<00:25:05.356> I<00:25:05.833> think,<00:25:06.309> with<00:25:06.786> about<00:25:07.262> 60<00:25:07.739> patients,<00:25:08.215> another<00:25:08.692> one<00:25:09.168> was<00:25:09.645> 240.<00:25:10.121> She's<00:25:10.598> just<00:25:11.074> recently<00:25:11.551> done<00:25:12.027> a<00:25:12.504> dual<00:25:12.980> hospice

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study.<00:25:14.570> Now,<00:25:15.320> what<00:25:15.530> she<00:25:15.800> finds<00:25:16.160> is<00:25:16.640> that<00:25:17.200> what<00:25:18.200> we<00:25:18.470> said<00:25:18.800> was<00:25:19.130> correct:<00:25:20.110> people<00:25:21.110> do<00:25:21.380> in<00:25:21.650> fact

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go<00:25:22.220> into<00:25:22.610> this<00:25:22.790> other<00:25:23.740> reality.<00:25:25.300> But<00:25:26.300> if<00:25:27.260> we<00:25:27.560> come<00:25:27.830> now<00:25:28.070> to<00:25:28.100> the<00:25:28.430> dying<00:25:28.730> process<00:25:29.030> itself,<00:25:29.840> which

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is<00:25:30.661> enormously<00:25:31.092> interesting<00:25:31.523> and<00:25:31.954> important,<00:25:32.385> and<00:25:32.816> we<00:25:33.247> all<00:25:33.678> need<00:25:34.109> to<00:25:34.541> learn<00:25:34.972> this—in<00:25:35.403> fact,<00:25:35.834> we<00:25:36.265> should<00:25:36.696> be<00:25:37.127> taught<00:25:37.558> it<00:25:37.989> in<00:25:38.420> in

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in<00:25:40.132> school—and<00:25:40.805> the<00:25:41.477> way<00:25:42.149> that<00:25:42.822> dying,<00:25:43.494> I<00:25:44.166> think,<00:25:44.838> is...<00:25:45.511> it's<00:25:46.183> like<00:25:46.855> this:<00:25:47.528> deathbed<00:25:48.200> visitors

00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:58.100
come,<00:25:48.920> fine.<00:25:49.750> Then<00:25:50.750> at<00:25:51.140> some<00:25:51.710> moment<00:25:52.310> you<00:25:53.090> realize<00:25:53.570> you're<00:25:53.870> going<00:25:54.080> to<00:25:54.290> die,<00:25:54.700> and<00:25:55.700> it<00:25:55.880> hits<00:25:56.420> you<00:25:56.570> hard.<00:25:57.140> We're

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not<00:25:58.575> coming<00:25:59.049> back,<00:25:59.524> guys.<00:25:59.999> This<00:26:00.474> isn't<00:26:00.948> a<00:26:01.423> getting-well<00:26:01.898> process;<00:26:02.372> it's<00:26:02.847> a<00:26:03.322> dying<00:26:03.796> process.<00:26:04.271> And<00:26:04.746> that<00:26:05.221> then<00:26:05.695> leaves<00:26:06.170> you

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And<00:26:15.950> so<00:26:16.760> you<00:26:16.820> have<00:26:17.180> to<00:26:17.330> start<00:26:17.630> giving<00:26:18.050> everything<00:26:18.740> out.<00:26:19.130> This<00:26:19.820> is<00:26:19.970> absolutely<00:26:20.600> fundamental:<00:26:21.190> you<00:26:22.190> have<00:26:22.370> to<00:26:22.520> give<00:26:22.670> up<00:26:22.820> the<00:26:22.970> fact<00:26:23.210> that<00:26:23.330> you're<00:26:23.540> going<00:26:23.720> to

00:26:23.810 --> 00:26:32.030
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and<00:26:32.060> your<00:26:32.420> job.<00:26:32.810> You've<00:26:33.350> got<00:26:33.560> to<00:26:33.710> give<00:26:33.890> up<00:26:34.040> everything.<00:26:35.020> And<00:26:36.020> if<00:26:36.230> you<00:26:36.530> don't,<00:26:37.010> you<00:26:37.970> remain<00:26:38.360> attached.<00:26:39.070> Now,<00:26:40.810> attachment

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is<00:26:42.160> the<00:26:43.160> most<00:26:43.700> difficult<00:26:44.270> thing<00:26:44.720> when<00:26:45.500> you're<00:26:45.680> dying.<00:26:46.070> If<00:26:47.060> you<00:26:47.360> could<00:26:47.720> give<00:26:47.960> everything<00:26:48.260> up,<00:26:48.590> you'd<00:26:48.860> have<00:26:48.890> a<00:26:49.070> very<00:26:49.460> smooth<00:26:49.910> transition.

00:26:50.530 --> 00:26:58.880
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to<00:26:59.522> post-transition.<00:27:00.163> And<00:27:00.805> in<00:27:01.446> post-transition,<00:27:02.088> you<00:27:02.729> in<00:27:03.371> fact<00:27:04.012> have<00:27:04.654> given<00:27:05.295> everything<00:27:05.937> up.<00:27:06.578> You<00:27:07.220> go

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more<00:27:07.850> and<00:27:08.060> more<00:27:08.300> into<00:27:08.600> the<00:27:08.630> spiritual<00:27:09.290> domain,<00:27:09.470> which<00:27:09.920> I've<00:27:10.130> described<00:27:10.730> to<00:27:11.060> you,<00:27:11.090> and<00:27:11.810> it's<00:27:11.930> just<00:27:12.020> like<00:27:12.350> that<00:27:13.090> until<00:27:14.090> at<00:27:14.420> the<00:27:14.480> end<00:27:15.070> you<00:27:16.070> have

00:27:16.190 --> 00:27:25.710
lost<00:27:16.550> your<00:27:16.820> ego.<00:27:17.590> You've<00:27:18.590> lost<00:27:19.130> that<00:27:19.760> part<00:27:20.300> of<00:27:20.510> yourself<00:27:21.050> which<00:27:21.530> is<00:27:22.120> differentiating<00:27:23.220> you,<00:27:23.549> and<00:27:24.710> you

00:27:25.710 --> 00:27:34.350
become<00:27:26.286> what's<00:27:26.863> called<00:27:27.439> non-dual.<00:27:28.016> That<00:27:28.592> means<00:27:29.169> that<00:27:29.745> you<00:27:30.321> do<00:27:30.898> in<00:27:31.474> fact<00:27:32.051> merge<00:27:32.627> with<00:27:33.204> the<00:27:33.780> universe.

00:27:34.350 --> 00:27:42.809
You<00:27:35.250> have<00:27:35.370> already<00:27:37.220> lost<00:27:38.220> all<00:27:38.669> your<00:27:39.179> trappings<00:27:39.929> of<00:27:40.169> being<00:27:40.409> a<00:27:40.559> body<00:27:40.830> in<00:27:41.100> a<00:27:41.220> person,<00:27:41.760> and<00:27:41.940> you<00:27:42.510> just

00:27:42.809 --> 00:27:51.710
got<00:27:43.392> this<00:27:43.975> non-duality,<00:27:44.558> which<00:27:45.141> is<00:27:45.724> merging<00:27:46.307> with<00:27:46.890> the<00:27:47.472> greatest,<00:27:48.055> greater<00:27:48.638> cosmos<00:27:49.221> behind.<00:27:49.804> So<00:27:50.387> the<00:27:50.970> idea

00:27:51.710 --> 00:28:00.450
that<00:27:53.150> you're<00:27:54.150> going<00:27:54.179> to<00:27:54.630> retain<00:27:55.230> a<00:27:55.710> lot<00:27:56.100> of<00:27:56.370> the<00:27:57.270> things<00:27:57.600> that<00:27:57.900> you<00:27:58.080> have<00:27:58.350> in<00:27:58.559> this<00:27:58.740> life<00:27:59.270> when<00:28:00.270> you

00:28:00.450 --> 00:28:09.870
go<00:28:00.690> there,<00:28:01.080> you<00:28:01.740> know,<00:28:01.919> again,<00:28:02.190> see<00:28:02.460> my<00:28:02.640> mum<00:28:02.880> and<00:28:03.090> say<00:28:03.270> hi...<00:28:03.570> probably<00:28:04.409> not.<00:28:04.730> But<00:28:05.730> you<00:28:05.789> will<00:28:06.299> probably...<00:28:06.809> you<00:28:07.080> could<00:28:07.350> see<00:28:07.590> your<00:28:07.710> mom,<00:28:07.919> I<00:28:07.950> don't<00:28:08.130> know,<00:28:08.870> but

00:28:09.870 --> 00:28:19.230
in<00:28:10.110> fact<00:28:10.350> you<00:28:10.770> will<00:28:11.070> become<00:28:12.320> universal.<00:28:13.320> So<00:28:14.100> that's<00:28:14.370> what<00:28:14.549> the<00:28:14.700> data<00:28:14.880> shows.<00:28:15.360> And<00:28:16.110> the<00:28:16.260> data<00:28:16.470> shows<00:28:16.770> that<00:28:16.799> if<00:28:17.220> you<00:28:17.280> don't<00:28:18.230> give

00:28:19.230 --> 00:28:28.559
up<00:28:19.970> all<00:28:20.970> the<00:28:21.299> things<00:28:21.539> to<00:28:21.780> which<00:28:21.960> you're<00:28:22.200> attached,<00:28:22.850> then<00:28:23.850> you<00:28:24.030> have<00:28:24.210> a<00:28:24.240> very<00:28:24.330> difficult<00:28:25.200> process<00:28:25.470> in<00:28:25.919> dying,<00:28:26.220> because<00:28:26.490> you've<00:28:26.610> got<00:28:26.730> these<00:28:26.909> two<00:28:27.020> processes:<00:28:28.020> the

00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:37.140
one<00:28:28.799> of<00:28:29.010> fusion<00:28:29.640> with<00:28:30.330> the<00:28:30.539> greater<00:28:30.840> beyond,<00:28:31.380> the<00:28:32.220> other<00:28:32.400> pulling<00:28:32.940> back<00:28:33.240> into<00:28:33.630> the<00:28:34.110> limited,<00:28:34.590> juicy...<00:28:35.280> and<00:28:35.970> what<00:28:36.539> happens<00:28:36.900> then

00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:45.419
when<00:28:37.409> the<00:28:37.500> dying<00:28:37.740> is<00:28:37.980> more<00:28:38.190> difficult?<00:28:38.520> Yeah,<00:28:39.350> then<00:28:40.350> you<00:28:40.590> have<00:28:40.890> what<00:28:41.429> is<00:28:41.580> called<00:28:41.789> spiritual<00:28:42.450> restlessness.<00:28:43.760> It's...<00:28:44.760> it's<00:28:45.120> not<00:28:45.360> a

00:28:45.419 --> 00:28:53.730
pleasant<00:28:45.750> state<00:28:46.200> to<00:28:46.470> be<00:28:46.679> in,<00:28:46.740> because<00:28:47.039> you've<00:28:47.309> got<00:28:47.460> a<00:28:47.490> lot<00:28:47.730> of<00:28:47.909> anxiety,<00:28:48.120> and<00:28:49.020> all<00:28:49.919> the<00:28:50.159> time<00:28:50.429> you're<00:28:50.940> being<00:28:51.330> pulled<00:28:51.659> back,<00:28:51.990> you're<00:28:52.289> being<00:28:52.500> pulled<00:28:52.740> back,<00:28:52.980> you're<00:28:53.250> being<00:28:53.490> pulled

00:28:53.730 --> 00:29:02.039
back.<00:28:54.000> It's<00:28:54.390> not<00:28:54.539> pleasant.<00:28:54.950> So<00:28:55.950> you<00:28:56.700> ought<00:28:56.820> to<00:28:56.850> know<00:28:57.299> this.<00:28:57.539> So<00:28:57.840> when<00:28:57.990> you<00:28:58.110> go<00:28:58.260> into<00:28:58.409> a<00:28:58.559> hospice,<00:28:59.070> you<00:28:59.820> should<00:29:00.030> have<00:29:00.210> a<00:29:00.240> lecture<00:29:00.780> on<00:29:00.960> the<00:29:01.770> fact

00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:10.950
that<00:29:02.190> you're<00:29:02.490> going<00:29:02.700> to<00:29:02.789> give<00:29:03.090> up<00:29:03.270> everything.<00:29:04.370> And<00:29:05.370> so<00:29:05.549> that's...<00:29:05.820> that<00:29:06.419> takes<00:29:06.840> you<00:29:07.020> up<00:29:07.049> to<00:29:07.350> the<00:29:07.440> dying<00:29:07.740> process.<00:29:08.490> Now,<00:29:09.450> before<00:29:10.049> you

00:29:10.950 --> 00:29:19.830
die,<00:29:11.250> I<00:29:11.730> just<00:29:12.059> want<00:29:12.270> to<00:29:12.390> add<00:29:12.539> one<00:29:12.570> other<00:29:12.809> set<00:29:13.260> of<00:29:13.440> phenomena,<00:29:13.980> and<00:29:14.220> these<00:29:14.970> are<00:29:15.150> called<00:29:15.390> terminal<00:29:15.960> lucidity.<00:29:17.840> Terminal<00:29:18.840> lucidity<00:29:19.380> is

00:29:19.830 --> 00:29:28.820
when<00:29:20.360> the...<00:29:21.360> the<00:29:21.390> Victorians<00:29:22.320> used<00:29:22.590> to<00:29:22.799> call<00:29:23.039> it<00:29:25.010> late<00:29:26.010> awakening,<00:29:27.110> essentially.<00:29:28.110> And

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what<00:29:29.820> it<00:29:29.970> was<00:29:30.210> is<00:29:30.690> that<00:29:30.799> you<00:29:31.799> suddenly<00:29:33.080> sit<00:29:34.080> up<00:29:34.230> in<00:29:34.409> bed,<00:29:35.490> say<00:29:36.300> hi<00:29:37.130> to

00:29:38.130 --> 00:29:46.890
the<00:29:38.475> people<00:29:38.820> around<00:29:39.165> you—actually,<00:29:39.510> you<00:29:39.855> don't<00:29:40.200> say<00:29:40.545> hi,<00:29:40.890> you<00:29:41.235> say<00:29:41.580> goodbye,<00:29:41.925> because<00:29:42.270> you<00:29:42.615> know<00:29:42.960> you're<00:29:43.305> dying—and<00:29:43.650> then<00:29:43.995> you<00:29:44.340> lie<00:29:44.685> back<00:29:45.030> and<00:29:45.375> die.<00:29:45.720> Now,<00:29:46.065> that's<00:29:46.410> interesting

00:29:46.890 --> 00:29:55.290
enough,<00:29:47.460> but<00:29:47.730> it's<00:29:47.880> much<00:29:48.270> more<00:29:48.540> interesting<00:29:49.140> than<00:29:49.170> that,<00:29:49.500> because<00:29:50.400> people<00:29:51.120> who<00:29:51.300> are<00:29:51.420> paralyzed<00:29:52.110> and<00:29:52.530> haven't<00:29:52.830> moved<00:29:53.040> maybe<00:29:53.430> for<00:29:53.880> a<00:29:53.910> year,<00:29:54.510> being<00:29:55.170> a

00:29:55.290 --> 00:30:03.630
long-term<00:29:55.660> care<00:29:56.029> home,<00:29:56.399> they<00:29:56.768> can<00:29:57.138> sit<00:29:57.507> up<00:29:57.877> and<00:29:58.246> do<00:29:58.616> it.<00:29:58.985> So<00:29:59.355> for<00:29:59.725> that,<00:30:00.094> those<00:30:00.464> few<00:30:00.833> moments,<00:30:01.203> the<00:30:01.572> central<00:30:01.942> nervous<00:30:02.311> system<00:30:02.681> seems<00:30:03.050> to<00:30:03.420> work

00:30:03.630 --> 00:30:13.620
again<00:30:04.159> appropriately.<00:30:04.688> But<00:30:05.216> more<00:30:05.745> interesting<00:30:06.274> than<00:30:06.803> that<00:30:07.332> to<00:30:07.861> me<00:30:08.389> is<00:30:08.918> the<00:30:09.447> people<00:30:09.976> who<00:30:10.505> have<00:30:11.034> Alzheimer's<00:30:11.562> disease<00:30:12.091> and<00:30:12.620> have

00:30:13.620 --> 00:30:21.990
in<00:30:13.860> fact<00:30:16.340> lost<00:30:17.340> their<00:30:17.610> memories<00:30:18.090> many<00:30:18.630> years<00:30:19.110> back<00:30:19.440> and<00:30:19.860> just<00:30:20.040> been<00:30:20.310> in<00:30:20.490> a<00:30:20.610> care<00:30:20.880> home,<00:30:20.910> will<00:30:21.600> sit<00:30:21.810> up,

00:30:21.990 --> 00:30:31.230
recognize<00:30:22.680> their<00:30:22.980> friends,<00:30:23.430> say<00:30:23.700> goodbye,<00:30:24.120> sometimes<00:30:24.570> meet<00:30:25.080> their<00:30:25.350> dead<00:30:25.560> relatives,<00:30:26.130> and<00:30:26.340> then<00:30:26.430> lie<00:30:26.640> back<00:30:26.880> and<00:30:26.910> die.<00:30:27.300> So<00:30:28.140> that's<00:30:28.350> a<00:30:28.560> real<00:30:28.800> question<00:30:29.100> for<00:30:29.430> science,<00:30:30.230> because

00:30:31.230 --> 00:30:39.420
how<00:30:31.440> can<00:30:31.500> you<00:30:31.800> do<00:30:32.220> these<00:30:32.460> things<00:30:32.850> if<00:30:33.120> one<00:30:33.330> just<00:30:33.600> takes<00:30:33.930> the<00:30:34.230> argument<00:30:34.800> that<00:30:34.890> the<00:30:35.160> brain<00:30:35.400> secretes<00:30:35.910> consciousness,<00:30:36.720> because<00:30:37.350> it<00:30:37.500> has<00:30:37.680> to<00:30:37.830> get<00:30:37.980> its<00:30:38.100> health<00:30:38.340> secretion<00:30:38.940> process

00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:48.870
going<00:30:39.660> again?<00:30:40.080> Do<00:30:40.290> you<00:30:40.380> see?<00:30:40.560> Like<00:30:40.770> that,<00:30:40.830> just<00:30:41.760> before<00:30:42.120> you<00:30:42.210> die,<00:30:43.020> doesn't<00:30:43.440> seem<00:30:43.650> totally<00:30:44.310> reasonable.<00:30:45.440> So<00:30:47.360> that<00:30:48.360> then

00:30:48.870 --> 00:30:58.140
you<00:30:48.900> die.<00:30:49.610> Now,<00:30:50.610> the<00:30:51.030> show's<00:30:51.300> not<00:30:51.630> over.<00:30:51.690> It's<00:30:52.200> over<00:30:52.380> as<00:30:52.560> far<00:30:52.770> as<00:30:52.920> you're<00:30:53.160> concerned,<00:30:53.190> but<00:30:53.940> it's<00:30:54.090> not<00:30:54.300> as<00:30:54.450> far<00:30:54.660> as<00:30:54.750> your<00:30:54.870> relatives<00:30:55.440> are<00:30:55.680> concerned,<00:30:56.510> because<00:30:57.510> many

00:30:58.140 --> 00:31:08.580
people<00:30:58.680> who<00:30:59.010> have<00:30:59.310> a<00:31:00.200> a<00:31:02.060> close<00:31:03.060> relationship<00:31:04.940> will<00:31:05.940> then...<00:31:07.580> okay,

00:31:08.580 --> 00:31:17.220
I<00:31:08.610> can<00:31:09.000> make<00:31:09.420> a<00:31:09.660> visit.<00:31:11.060> And<00:31:12.470> this<00:31:13.470> is<00:31:13.680> important,<00:31:14.310> because<00:31:14.550> as<00:31:15.150> you<00:31:15.540> come<00:31:15.990> up<00:31:16.140> to<00:31:16.170> death,<00:31:16.560> you<00:31:16.890> can

00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:25.950
actually<00:31:17.660> put<00:31:18.660> off<00:31:18.870> your<00:31:18.900> dying<00:31:19.440> for<00:31:19.770> a<00:31:19.830> bit,<00:31:19.980> because<00:31:20.130> sometimes<00:31:20.490> some<00:31:21.150> of<00:31:21.210> the<00:31:21.330> deathbed<00:31:21.780> visits,<00:31:22.680> as<00:31:22.830> you<00:31:23.040> have,<00:31:23.280> say,<00:31:23.550> "I'm<00:31:23.640> going<00:31:23.790> to<00:31:23.850> come<00:31:24.000> back<00:31:24.210> on<00:31:24.420> Tuesday,"<00:31:24.990> and<00:31:25.680> you'll

00:31:25.950 --> 00:31:35.820
die<00:31:26.220> then.<00:31:26.550> But<00:31:26.790> remember<00:31:27.510> that<00:31:27.540> we've<00:31:28.380> got<00:31:28.560> two<00:31:28.770> sorts<00:31:29.130> of<00:31:29.190> narratives<00:31:29.820> running:<00:31:30.360> one<00:31:30.540> is<00:31:30.750> where<00:31:30.960> you<00:31:31.050> have<00:31:31.290> more<00:31:31.470> control,<00:31:31.920> and<00:31:32.310> you<00:31:32.370> probably<00:31:32.940> actually<00:31:33.210> do,<00:31:34.820> so

00:31:35.820 --> 00:31:44.370
you<00:31:36.240> can<00:31:36.510> remember<00:31:36.840> that<00:31:37.200> you<00:31:37.380> can<00:31:37.650> negotiate<00:31:38.280> with<00:31:38.970> your<00:31:41.450> relatives<00:31:42.450> if<00:31:42.630> you<00:31:42.780> want<00:31:43.020> to<00:31:43.260> to<00:31:43.410> live<00:31:43.590> a<00:31:43.620> little<00:31:43.800> bit<00:31:44.040> longer.

00:31:44.370 --> 00:31:53.710
But<00:31:45.180> when<00:31:45.390> you<00:31:45.510> actually<00:31:45.720> die,<00:31:46.290> if<00:31:46.770> you<00:31:47.100> have<00:31:47.280> a<00:31:47.310> drive<00:31:48.250> to<00:31:48.730> go<00:31:48.909> and<00:31:49.059> see<00:31:49.390> a<00:31:49.690> daughter<00:31:50.080> or<00:31:50.919> a<00:31:51.880> son<00:31:52.870> who

00:31:53.710 --> 00:32:02.559
couldn't<00:31:54.130> be<00:31:54.370> there<00:31:54.700> with<00:31:55.000> you,<00:31:55.270> then<00:31:55.750> you<00:31:55.929> can<00:31:56.110> visit.<00:31:56.500> And<00:31:57.250> the<00:31:57.490> visit<00:31:57.820> is<00:31:57.970> very<00:31:58.059> specific;<00:31:59.049> we've<00:31:59.980> got<00:32:00.280> a<00:32:00.490> lot<00:32:00.789> of<00:32:00.820> these,<00:32:01.150> and<00:32:01.450> we've<00:32:01.570> analyzed<00:32:02.140> them,

00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:10.870
and<00:32:03.059> they<00:32:04.059> come<00:32:04.480> at<00:32:04.840> the<00:32:05.320> time<00:32:05.590> of<00:32:05.830> death,<00:32:06.299> 99%<00:32:07.299> always<00:32:08.080> in<00:32:08.260> half<00:32:08.500> now,<00:32:08.799> most<00:32:09.250> of<00:32:09.429> the<00:32:09.669> actual<00:32:10.090> time<00:32:10.360> of<00:32:10.570> death.

00:32:10.870 --> 00:32:19.299
And<00:32:11.640> it<00:32:12.640> depends<00:32:13.630> on<00:32:13.659> the<00:32:14.100> mental<00:32:15.100> state<00:32:15.460> of<00:32:15.490> the<00:32:15.850> person<00:32:15.970> who<00:32:16.450> receives<00:32:16.870> the<00:32:17.080> visit.<00:32:17.409> If<00:32:17.919> you<00:32:18.700> receive<00:32:19.090> the

00:32:19.299 --> 00:32:28.630
visit<00:32:19.630> and<00:32:19.809> you're<00:32:20.409> awake,<00:32:21.159> then<00:32:22.030> it<00:32:22.419> would<00:32:22.720> be<00:32:22.960> a<00:32:23.260> feeling<00:32:24.010> that<00:32:24.510> somebody<00:32:25.510> you<00:32:25.630> know<00:32:25.840> is<00:32:26.110> dying,<00:32:26.470> dying,<00:32:27.630> the

00:32:28.630 --> 00:32:36.940
feeling<00:32:29.110> that<00:32:29.350> they<00:32:30.340> would<00:32:30.520> like<00:32:31.320> some<00:32:32.320> help<00:32:32.620> in<00:32:32.950> some<00:32:33.250> way,<00:32:33.549> or<00:32:34.030> you<00:32:34.659> feel<00:32:34.929> some<00:32:35.260> catastrophe<00:32:35.440> is<00:32:36.130> occurring.<00:32:36.700> There's

00:32:36.940 --> 00:32:45.280
the<00:32:37.090> sorts<00:32:37.510> of<00:32:37.600> feelings<00:32:37.870> you<00:32:38.260> have.<00:32:38.530> If,<00:32:39.429> on<00:32:39.970> the<00:32:40.120> other<00:32:40.210> hand,<00:32:40.600> you're<00:32:40.900> asleep,<00:32:41.280> then<00:32:42.280> it's<00:32:42.429> quite<00:32:42.669> different.<00:32:42.970> You<00:32:43.210> get<00:32:43.450> a<00:32:43.480> narrative<00:32:43.929> dream.<00:32:44.440> And<00:32:44.740> here's<00:32:45.130> an

00:32:45.280 --> 00:32:54.240
example<00:32:45.893> of<00:32:46.506> one:<00:32:47.119> a<00:32:47.731> woman<00:32:48.344> woke<00:32:48.957> up—I<00:32:49.570> think<00:32:50.183> she<00:32:50.796> was<00:32:51.409> actually<00:32:52.021> in<00:32:52.634> a<00:32:53.247> narrative<00:32:53.860> dream—and

00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:03.600
she<00:32:55.240> saw<00:32:55.860> standing<00:32:56.860> at<00:32:57.220> the<00:32:57.610> end<00:32:57.789> of<00:32:58.059> the<00:32:58.299> bed<00:32:58.630> her<00:32:59.049> son,<00:32:59.820> and<00:33:00.820> her<00:33:01.090> son<00:33:01.390> was<00:33:01.659> dripping<00:33:02.110> wet,<00:33:02.380> and

00:33:03.600 --> 00:33:12.429
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00:33:12.429 --> 00:33:20.950
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00:33:20.950 --> 00:33:29.830
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00:33:29.830 --> 00:33:38.140
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00:33:38.140 --> 00:33:46.390
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00:33:46.390 --> 00:33:54.640
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00:33:54.640 --> 00:34:03.559
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00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:13.069
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00:34:13.069 --> 00:34:22.579
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00:34:22.579 --> 00:34:29.109
In<00:34:22.879> very<00:34:23.300> nearly<00:34:23.690> half<00:34:23.929> the<00:34:24.230> cases,<00:34:24.500> and<00:34:24.980> I<00:34:25.069> don't<00:34:25.339> think<00:34:25.579> actually<00:34:25.869> externally

00:34:29.109 --> 00:34:37.490
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00:34:37.490 --> 00:34:46.879
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00:34:46.879 --> 00:34:55.339
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00:34:55.339 --> 00:35:05.680
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00:35:05.680 --> 00:35:14.060
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00:35:14.060 --> 00:35:22.339
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00:35:22.339 --> 00:35:30.619
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00:35:56.569 --> 00:36:05.599
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00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:13.490
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00:36:13.490 --> 00:36:24.110
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00:36:24.110 --> 00:36:32.540
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00:36:32.540 --> 00:36:41.570
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00:36:41.570 --> 00:36:49.760
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00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:59.120
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00:36:59.120 --> 00:37:08.120
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00:37:08.120 --> 00:37:17.330
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00:37:17.330 --> 00:37:26.090
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00:37:26.090 --> 00:37:34.460
really<00:37:26.810> stop<00:37:27.610> well<00:37:28.610> the<00:37:28.880> answer<00:37:29.300> is<00:37:29.420> yes<00:37:29.950> how<00:37:30.950> do<00:37:31.010> we<00:37:31.250> know<00:37:31.430> because<00:37:31.730> people<00:37:31.910> say<00:37:32.270> their<00:37:32.480> clocks<00:37:32.780> stopped<00:37:33.110> at<00:37:33.740> the<00:37:34.010> time<00:37:34.250> of

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00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:53.290
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is<00:48:24.680> quite<00:48:25.430> clear<00:48:25.880> is<00:48:26.240> that<00:48:26.750> as<00:48:26.990> they<00:48:27.500> come<00:48:28.069> into<00:48:28.400> the<00:48:28.609> death<00:48:28.940> process<00:48:29.619> they've<00:48:30.619> all<00:48:30.859> given<00:48:31.130> up<00:48:31.430> that<00:48:31.700> idea<00:48:32.000> and<00:48:32.569> they

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all<00:48:33.470> start<00:48:34.480> looking<00:48:35.480> forward<00:48:36.140> to<00:48:36.440> what's<00:48:36.650> going<00:48:36.950> going<00:48:37.700> to<00:48:37.849> what's<00:48:38.150> happening<00:48:38.690> to<00:48:38.839> them<00:48:39.049> they<00:48:39.710> don't<00:48:39.980> say<00:48:40.220> they<00:48:40.369> don't<00:48:40.520> believe<00:48:40.880> in<00:48:41.119> anything<00:48:41.359> anymore<00:48:41.890> the

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sort<00:48:43.160> of<00:48:43.280> things<00:48:43.549> they<00:48:43.670> say<00:48:44.089> one<00:48:44.540> woman<00:48:44.750> who<00:48:45.200> was<00:48:45.230> absolutely<00:48:46.010> sure<00:48:46.609> that<00:48:47.000> there<00:48:47.839> was<00:48:47.930> nothing<00:48:48.319> there<00:48:48.589> kept<00:48:49.190> on<00:48:49.339> waking<00:48:49.549> up<00:48:49.849> from<00:48:50.030> a<00:48:50.150> coma<00:48:50.359> saying<00:48:50.839> come<00:48:51.349> on

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get<00:48:51.799> on<00:48:51.980> with<00:48:52.220> it<00:48:52.309> because<00:48:52.940> I<00:48:53.000> want<00:48:53.210> to<00:48:53.270> move<00:48:53.480> on<00:48:53.690> do<00:48:53.960> you<00:48:54.049> see<00:48:54.290> and<00:48:54.799> that<00:48:54.920> was<00:48:55.099> quite<00:48:55.369> different<00:48:55.970> from<00:48:56.660> what<00:48:56.900> her<00:48:57.079> stance<00:48:57.410> was<00:48:57.770> so<00:48:58.700> if<00:48:59.119> you<00:48:59.630> have

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a<00:48:59.900> strong<00:49:00.559> belief<00:49:00.950> in<00:49:01.160> angels<00:49:01.400> will<00:49:01.910> you<00:49:02.030> see<00:49:02.270> angels<00:49:02.780> probably<00:49:03.970> that's<00:49:04.970> what<00:49:05.270> the<00:49:07.569> south<00:49:08.569> of

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North<00:49:09.020> America<00:49:09.650> shows<00:49:10.400> the<00:49:10.700> Bible<00:49:11.089> Belt<00:49:11.299> they<00:49:11.869> show<00:49:12.140> that<00:49:13.240> if<00:49:14.240> you<00:49:15.049> lead<00:49:16.040> a<00:49:16.069> good<00:49:16.520> life<00:49:16.750> will

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good<00:49:27.120> life<00:49:27.330> means<00:49:27.840> that<00:49:28.080> you're<00:49:28.290> not<00:49:28.470> strongly<00:49:29.040> centered<00:49:29.730> in<00:49:29.910> yourself<00:49:30.110> in<00:49:31.110> other<00:49:31.320> words<00:49:31.560> you're<00:49:31.710> thinking<00:49:32.070> about<00:49:32.160> other<00:49:32.490> people<00:49:32.640> and<00:49:33.270> doing<00:49:33.990> things<00:49:34.230> like<00:49:34.410> that

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thing<00:49:43.920> is<00:49:44.070> guilt<00:49:45.050> because<00:49:46.050> guilt<00:49:46.440> is<00:49:46.800> something<00:49:47.490> which<00:49:47.940> holds<00:49:48.330> up<00:49:48.450> people<00:49:48.900> find<00:49:49.200> it<00:49:49.350> very<00:49:49.590> difficult<00:49:49.920> to<00:49:50.220> give<00:49:50.460> up<00:49:50.490> their<00:49:50.850> guilt<00:49:51.180> all<00:49:51.510> those

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somebody<00:50:02.100> who's<00:50:02.520> committed<00:50:02.820> a<00:50:03.060> lot<00:50:03.210> of<00:50:03.270> crimes<00:50:03.450> and<00:50:04.440> they<00:50:04.620> feel<00:50:04.890> guilty<00:50:05.400> about<00:50:05.490> it<00:50:05.730> then<00:50:06.690> they'll<00:50:06.930> have<00:50:07.110> a<00:50:07.170> lot<00:50:07.380> of<00:50:07.410> difficulty<00:50:08.100> giving<00:50:08.460> up<00:50:08.760> and<00:50:09.480> so

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my<00:50:10.200> colleagues<00:50:10.680> asked<00:50:11.040> me<00:50:11.160> what<00:50:11.310> happens<00:50:11.700> if<00:50:11.850> you're<00:50:12.060> a<00:50:12.120> psychopath<00:50:12.570> and<00:50:13.020> have<00:50:13.230> no<00:50:13.440> guilt<00:50:13.710> I<00:50:14.040> don't<00:50:14.820> know<00:50:15.030> I've<00:50:15.150> never<00:50:15.300> seen<00:50:15.570> a<00:50:15.630> psychopath<00:50:16.290> die<00:50:16.590> but<00:50:16.890> I<00:50:17.010> assume<00:50:17.310> they

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00:52:49.860 --> 00:52:59.600
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00:52:59.600 --> 00:53:08.820
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00:53:19.220 --> 00:53:27.840
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always<00:53:28.170> a<00:53:28.530> clear<00:53:29.070> explanation<00:53:29.700> of<00:53:30.270> what<00:53:30.450> a<00:53:30.480> hellish<00:53:31.080> experience<00:53:31.740> was.<00:53:32.100> I'll<00:53:32.940> give<00:53:33.180> you<00:53:33.300> an<00:53:33.390> example.<00:53:33.950> This<00:53:34.950> man<00:53:35.250> had<00:53:35.580> a<00:53:35.610> near-death<00:53:35.910> experience.

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He<00:53:37.890> suddenly<00:53:38.700> realized<00:53:39.510> that<00:53:39.810> he<00:53:40.140> had<00:53:40.230> left<00:53:40.440> his<00:53:40.590> body<00:53:40.920> and<00:53:41.250> was<00:53:41.430> in<00:53:41.610> a<00:53:41.700> hellish<00:53:42.120> realm,<00:53:42.540> and<00:53:44.600> there<00:53:45.600> were

00:53:45.720 --> 00:53:53.220
loads<00:53:46.200> of<00:53:46.500> devils<00:53:46.950> there,<00:53:47.220> and<00:53:47.400> they<00:53:47.580> kept<00:53:47.880> on<00:53:48.060> pricking<00:53:48.600> him<00:53:48.870> and

00:53:53.220 --> 00:54:02.140
torturing<00:53:54.220> him,<00:53:54.490> and<00:53:54.700> he<00:53:55.390> knew<00:53:55.600> he<00:53:55.750> was<00:53:55.900> in<00:53:56.110> a<00:53:56.200> hellish<00:53:56.530> realm<00:53:56.830> because<00:53:57.040> he<00:53:57.280> could<00:53:57.460> feel<00:53:57.760> the<00:53:57.790> flames<00:53:58.390> of<00:53:58.840> hell<00:53:59.310> burning<00:54:00.310> him.<00:54:00.870> Now,<00:54:01.870> as

00:54:02.140 --> 00:54:10.600
he<00:54:02.370> got<00:54:03.370> better,<00:54:03.730> because<00:54:04.630> he<00:54:04.840> was<00:54:04.990> in<00:54:05.140> intensive<00:54:05.740> care,<00:54:06.370> he<00:54:06.940> realized<00:54:07.510> that<00:54:07.830> hellish<00:54:08.830> experiences<00:54:09.700> were<00:54:09.970> in<00:54:10.240> fact

00:54:10.600 --> 00:54:18.940
coming<00:54:11.560> from<00:54:11.950> the<00:54:12.130> heating<00:54:12.520> pad<00:54:12.790> he<00:54:13.090> was<00:54:13.270> lying<00:54:13.720> on,<00:54:14.020> and<00:54:14.860> that<00:54:15.130> led<00:54:15.730> to<00:54:16.290> misinterpretation<00:54:17.290> of<00:54:17.380> the<00:54:17.650> heat<00:54:18.070> sensory<00:54:18.670> data

00:54:18.940 --> 00:54:27.340
and<00:54:19.920> the<00:54:20.940> devils.<00:54:21.940> So,<00:54:22.210> it's<00:54:22.360> quite<00:54:22.540> easy<00:54:22.840> to<00:54:22.990> see,<00:54:23.170> because<00:54:24.100> he<00:54:24.250> said<00:54:24.490> these<00:54:24.700> were<00:54:24.910> the<00:54:25.060> nurses<00:54:25.540> that<00:54:25.750> were<00:54:25.870> coming<00:54:26.140> in<00:54:26.440> and<00:54:26.620> giving<00:54:26.740> him<00:54:26.980> injections

00:54:27.340 --> 00:54:35.980
and<00:54:27.820> doing<00:54:28.060> things<00:54:28.240> like<00:54:28.390> that.<00:54:28.620> So,<00:54:29.620> that<00:54:30.310> was<00:54:30.580> his<00:54:30.900> interpretation.<00:54:31.900> So,<00:54:32.110> this<00:54:32.290> was<00:54:32.470> an<00:54:32.650> illusory<00:54:33.160> experience.<00:54:34.030> It<00:54:34.810> was<00:54:34.960> getting<00:54:35.260> very<00:54:35.290> close<00:54:35.830> to

00:54:35.980 --> 00:54:44.950
something<00:54:36.790> which<00:54:36.910> is<00:54:37.090> called<00:54:37.300> an<00:54:37.510> intensive<00:54:38.080> care<00:54:38.260> psychosis,<00:54:39.240> because<00:54:40.240> they<00:54:40.690> are<00:54:40.930> paranoid,<00:54:41.650> they<00:54:42.040> are<00:54:42.490> where<00:54:42.880> people<00:54:43.060> are<00:54:43.390> doing<00:54:43.660> things<00:54:43.930> which<00:54:44.770> are

00:54:44.950 --> 00:54:53.320
horrible<00:54:45.400> to<00:54:45.460> you,<00:54:45.940> and<00:54:46.560> so<00:54:47.560> it<00:54:47.950> has<00:54:48.550> a<00:54:48.900> rational<00:54:49.900> explanation<00:54:50.260> that<00:54:51.040> you<00:54:51.160> don't<00:54:51.430> have<00:54:51.670> to<00:54:52.260> postulate<00:54:53.260> a

00:54:53.320 --> 00:55:02.410
hell.<00:54:53.677> But<00:54:54.035> the<00:54:54.392> question<00:54:54.750> is,<00:54:55.107> is<00:54:55.464> there<00:54:55.822> a<00:54:56.179> hell?<00:54:56.537> Is<00:54:56.894> there<00:54:57.251> really<00:54:57.609> a<00:54:57.966> hellish<00:54:58.323> realm<00:54:58.681> of<00:54:59.038> people<00:54:59.396> going<00:54:59.753> to<00:55:00.110> or<00:55:00.468> not?<00:55:00.825> I've<00:55:01.183> had<00:55:01.540> no

00:55:02.410 --> 00:55:11.920
death<00:55:02.770> experience,<00:55:03.550> no<00:55:04.030> true<00:55:04.450> death<00:55:04.660> experience<00:55:05.350> in<00:55:05.830> which<00:55:06.010> people<00:55:06.370> have<00:55:06.430> reported<00:55:07.030> that<00:55:07.060> there's<00:55:07.450> a<00:55:07.570> hell.<00:55:07.810> They<00:55:08.410> just<00:55:08.680> don't<00:55:08.920> do<00:55:09.250> it.<00:55:11.500> Near-death

00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:20.460
experiences<00:55:12.910> in<00:55:13.270> our<00:55:13.420> sample,<00:55:14.020> it<00:55:14.140> was<00:55:14.260> 4%.<00:55:14.910> Now,<00:55:15.910> that<00:55:16.120> may<00:55:16.450> be<00:55:16.510> lower<00:55:17.520> because<00:55:18.520> remember<00:55:19.150> ours<00:55:19.600> was<00:55:19.990> a

00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:29.050
a<00:55:21.460> letter-writing<00:55:23.850> survey,<00:55:24.850> and<00:55:25.180> are<00:55:25.870> you<00:55:26.050> really<00:55:26.410> going<00:55:26.770> to<00:55:26.890> write<00:55:27.220> into<00:55:27.580> Sunday<00:55:27.970> who's<00:55:28.090> done<00:55:28.300> a<00:55:28.330> program<00:55:28.900> on

00:55:29.050 --> 00:55:37.420
NDEs<00:55:29.503> and<00:55:29.957> say,<00:55:30.410> "I<00:55:30.863> spent<00:55:31.317> my<00:55:31.770> my<00:55:32.223> NDE<00:55:32.677> being<00:55:33.130> punished<00:55:33.583> and<00:55:34.037> pulled<00:55:34.490> by<00:55:34.943> devils,"<00:55:35.397> across<00:55:35.850> your<00:55:36.303> not.<00:55:36.757> So,<00:55:37.210> we

00:55:37.420 --> 00:55:46.060
got<00:55:37.600> probably<00:55:37.930> an<00:55:38.140> under-representation<00:55:38.950> of<00:55:39.640> that,<00:55:39.900> but<00:55:40.900> the<00:55:41.500> ones<00:55:41.740> that<00:55:41.890> we<00:55:42.550> had<00:55:42.820> in<00:55:43.030> our<00:55:43.180> sample,<00:55:43.780> I<00:55:43.990> couldn't<00:55:44.710> convince<00:55:44.980> myself<00:55:45.490> that

00:55:46.060 --> 00:55:54.670
they<00:55:46.240> were<00:55:46.300> of<00:55:46.660> the<00:55:46.900> same<00:55:47.140> sort<00:55:47.500> of<00:55:47.620> order<00:55:47.980> as<00:55:48.100> near-death<00:55:48.550> experiences.<00:55:49.330> Now,<00:55:49.540> other<00:55:49.780> people<00:55:50.260> think<00:55:50.560> that<00:55:50.740> I'm<00:55:50.890> wrong<00:55:51.130> there,<00:55:51.460> so<00:55:52.270> you<00:55:52.360> can<00:55:52.860> obviously<00:55:53.860> interpret<00:55:54.520> the

00:55:54.670 --> 00:56:03.860
data<00:55:54.850> either<00:55:55.240> way.<00:55:55.600> So,<00:55:56.290> what<00:55:56.530> have<00:55:56.620> you<00:55:56.740> learned<00:55:56.950> from<00:55:57.070> all<00:55:57.250> this?<00:55:57.430> Is<00:55:57.670> there<00:55:57.910> a<00:55:57.940> special<00:55:58.720> message<00:55:59.050> for<00:55:59.320> our<00:55:59.350> culture?<00:56:00.010> I<00:56:00.220> think<00:56:00.730> the<00:56:01.210> experience<00:56:01.690> that<00:56:02.110> I<00:56:02.380> have<00:56:02.950> learned

00:56:03.860 --> 00:56:12.630
about<00:56:04.860> near-death<00:56:05.430> experiences<00:56:06.240> and<00:56:06.450> dying<00:56:06.750> have<00:56:07.530> a<00:56:07.560> very<00:56:08.040> strong<00:56:08.520> message<00:56:08.850> to<00:56:09.060> our<00:56:09.420> culture.<00:56:10.460> I'm<00:56:11.460> absolutely<00:56:12.000> with

00:56:12.630 --> 00:56:21.330
Dalai<00:56:13.140> Lama<00:56:13.410> in<00:56:13.680> the<00:56:13.830> first<00:56:14.130> part.<00:56:14.490> He<00:56:15.090> says<00:56:15.360> any<00:56:15.630> culture<00:56:16.470> which<00:56:17.570> can't,<00:56:18.570> which<00:56:19.440> sweeps<00:56:19.770> death<00:56:20.070> under<00:56:20.430> the<00:56:20.550> carpet<00:56:21.120> and

00:56:21.330 --> 00:56:29.880
can't<00:56:22.260> acknowledge<00:56:22.500> it,<00:56:23.190> is<00:56:23.880> this<00:56:24.180> is<00:56:24.870> a<00:56:24.990> society<00:56:25.800> which<00:56:26.160> is<00:56:26.210> greedy<00:56:27.680> because<00:56:28.680> you're<00:56:28.890> collecting<00:56:29.550> things

00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:39.390
and<00:56:30.180> you're<00:56:30.300> going<00:56:30.540> to<00:56:30.630> have<00:56:30.960> it.<00:56:31.170> You<00:56:31.890> can<00:56:32.160> be<00:56:32.310> angry<00:56:32.970> with<00:56:33.270> people<00:56:33.650> because<00:56:34.650> it<00:56:34.830> means<00:56:35.100> it's<00:56:35.580> fine<00:56:36.090> to<00:56:36.420> have<00:56:36.450> enemies,<00:56:37.260> and<00:56:38.390> they

00:56:39.390 --> 00:56:48.120
are<00:56:39.870> very<00:56:40.710> self-centered<00:56:41.600> because<00:56:42.600> they're<00:56:43.050> going<00:56:43.290> to<00:56:43.470> live<00:56:43.710> on<00:56:43.920> to<00:56:44.130> eternity.<00:56:44.790> If<00:56:45.480> you<00:56:45.630> look<00:56:46.020> at<00:56:46.260> our<00:56:46.290> culture,<00:56:47.040> it's<00:56:47.970> very

00:56:48.120 --> 00:56:56.580
it's<00:56:48.660> got<00:56:48.870> strong<00:56:49.440> components<00:56:50.280> of<00:56:50.460> that.<00:56:50.490> So,<00:56:51.330> I<00:56:51.360> think<00:56:51.570> the<00:56:51.960> way<00:56:52.110> that<00:56:52.140> we<00:56:52.410> medicalize<00:56:53.250> death,<00:56:53.670> sweep<00:56:54.480> it<00:56:54.660> away,<00:56:54.980> don't<00:56:55.980> talk<00:56:56.370> about

00:56:56.580 --> 00:57:05.070
it,<00:56:57.030> is<00:56:58.010> producing<00:56:59.010> a<00:56:59.130> culture<00:56:59.640> that<00:56:59.820> is<00:56:59.880> exactly<00:57:00.770> one<00:57:01.770> in<00:57:01.950> which<00:57:02.160> we<00:57:02.370> deny<00:57:02.700> our<00:57:02.940> responsibility.<00:57:03.870> Look,<00:57:04.380> every<00:57:04.710> hundred

00:57:05.070 --> 00:57:14.160
years,<00:57:05.280> we're<00:57:05.550> all<00:57:05.580> going<00:57:05.940> to<00:57:06.030> be<00:57:06.120> swept<00:57:06.390> away<00:57:06.540> like<00:57:06.900> that,<00:57:06.980> but<00:57:07.980> yet<00:57:08.190> we<00:57:08.400> won't<00:57:08.610> talk<00:57:08.940> about<00:57:09.000> this<00:57:09.630> point.<00:57:10.320> One,<00:57:10.580> the<00:57:11.580> next<00:57:11.850> point<00:57:12.240> is<00:57:12.630> that<00:57:13.160> we

00:57:14.160 --> 00:57:22.350
ought<00:57:14.430> to<00:57:14.820> start<00:57:15.920> with<00:57:16.920> children,<00:57:17.580> telling<00:57:18.060> them<00:57:18.270> about<00:57:18.600> what<00:57:18.840> it's<00:57:18.990> like<00:57:19.080> to<00:57:19.440> die.<00:57:19.650> In<00:57:20.040> fact,<00:57:20.310> we're<00:57:20.460> all<00:57:20.580> going<00:57:20.850> to<00:57:20.970> die.<00:57:21.210> Bring<00:57:21.600> it<00:57:21.720> out<00:57:21.900> into<00:57:22.140> the<00:57:22.260> open

00:57:22.350 --> 00:57:30.890
and<00:57:22.800> discuss<00:57:23.160> it.<00:57:23.450> One<00:57:24.450> of<00:57:24.600> my<00:57:24.750> grandsons<00:57:25.470> came<00:57:26.220> down<00:57:26.580> and<00:57:27.260> he<00:57:28.260> found<00:57:28.530> that<00:57:28.680> a<00:57:28.920> dog<00:57:29.220> had<00:57:29.430> got<00:57:29.670> into<00:57:29.880> the<00:57:30.060> garden<00:57:30.630> and

00:57:30.890 --> 00:57:39.360
bitten<00:57:31.890> the<00:57:32.040> head<00:57:32.310> of<00:57:32.520> two<00:57:33.390> of<00:57:33.690> his<00:57:34.020> hamsters.<00:57:34.710> Now,<00:57:35.640> he's<00:57:35.970> confronted<00:57:36.720> by<00:57:36.900> death.<00:57:37.260> They're<00:57:37.860> these<00:57:38.820> things<00:57:39.150> that

00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:50.220
he<00:57:39.510> loved<00:57:39.810> dearly<00:57:40.430> have<00:57:41.430> just<00:57:41.760> been<00:57:42.090> destroyed,<00:57:42.630> and<00:57:42.990> so<00:57:43.200> it<00:57:43.260> raises<00:57:43.530> questions.<00:57:44.120> Do<00:57:45.120> they<00:57:45.180> all<00:57:45.480> go<00:57:45.690> to<00:57:45.750> a<00:57:45.900> guinea<00:57:46.170> pig<00:57:46.290> heaven,<00:57:47.150> or<00:57:49.220> are

00:57:50.220 --> 00:57:58.410
we<00:57:50.490> just<00:57:50.730> all<00:57:50.910> machines?<00:57:51.860> What<00:57:52.860> does<00:57:53.070> death<00:57:53.310> mean?<00:57:53.730> You<00:57:54.090> see,<00:57:54.270> these<00:57:54.450> very<00:57:54.720> fundamental<00:57:55.500> questions,<00:57:56.010> you<00:57:56.190> get<00:57:56.400> very<00:57:56.730> early<00:57:57.120> lessons.<00:57:57.630> But<00:57:58.290> if

00:57:58.410 --> 00:58:06.840
you<00:57:58.560> go<00:57:58.740> round<00:57:58.980> a<00:57:59.220> class<00:57:59.580> of<00:57:59.940> kids<00:58:00.240> and<00:58:00.660> say,<00:58:00.930> "How<00:58:01.710> many<00:58:01.980> of<00:58:02.130> you<00:58:02.340> have<00:58:02.850> experienced<00:58:03.570> a<00:58:03.690> death?"<00:58:04.250> Many<00:58:05.250> of<00:58:05.430> them<00:58:05.580> have<00:58:05.700> had<00:58:05.850> grandparents<00:58:06.720> who

00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:15.600
have<00:58:06.960> died.<00:58:07.200> They<00:58:07.860> know<00:58:08.070> about<00:58:08.400> it,<00:58:08.670> so<00:58:09.300> it<00:58:09.390> ought<00:58:09.540> to<00:58:09.570> be<00:58:09.750> on<00:58:09.960> the<00:58:10.110> school<00:58:10.350> curriculum.<00:58:10.640> We<00:58:11.640> ought<00:58:11.790> to<00:58:11.820> teach<00:58:12.330> them<00:58:12.750> that<00:58:13.440> death<00:58:13.830> is<00:58:14.190> a<00:58:14.670> normal<00:58:15.390> part

00:58:15.600 --> 00:58:24.000
of<00:58:15.870> living,<00:58:16.890> and<00:58:17.010> in<00:58:17.190> fact,<00:58:17.430> you<00:58:18.000> accept<00:58:18.450> death<00:58:18.780> when<00:58:19.350> you<00:58:19.470> accept<00:58:19.890> birth.<00:58:20.160> In<00:58:20.520> fact,<00:58:20.790> death,<00:58:21.060> birth,<00:58:21.630> and<00:58:22.050> dying<00:58:22.500> are<00:58:23.070> all<00:58:23.490> part<00:58:23.820> of

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:32.820
the<00:58:24.120> same<00:58:24.390> continuum,<00:58:24.870> and<00:58:25.350> that<00:58:26.300> it's<00:58:27.300> going<00:58:27.570> to<00:58:27.660> happen<00:58:27.900> to<00:58:28.350> us,<00:58:28.440> and<00:58:29.090> it's<00:58:30.090> nothing<00:58:30.510> to<00:58:30.540> be<00:58:30.720> afraid<00:58:30.810> of<00:58:31.110> or<00:58:31.440> fearful<00:58:31.860> of.<00:58:32.040> What

00:58:32.820 --> 00:58:40.740
you<00:58:33.060> have<00:58:33.270> to<00:58:33.300> do<00:58:33.660> is<00:58:33.990> like<00:58:34.440> when<00:58:34.770> you<00:58:34.890> go<00:58:35.070> into<00:58:35.220> an<00:58:35.400> exam,<00:58:35.760> you<00:58:35.790> want<00:58:36.150> to<00:58:36.300> be<00:58:36.390> prepared<00:58:36.840> for<00:58:37.110> it.<00:58:37.230> Well,<00:58:37.770> when<00:58:37.920> you<00:58:38.040> go<00:58:38.250> into<00:58:38.430> the<00:58:38.640> final<00:58:39.060> exam<00:58:39.390> of<00:58:39.420> death,<00:58:39.780> you<00:58:39.990> want<00:58:40.110> to<00:58:40.230> be<00:58:40.380> prepared

00:58:40.740 --> 00:58:49.350
for<00:58:41.040> it,<00:58:41.160> and<00:58:41.340> then<00:58:41.910> you<00:58:42.060> can<00:58:42.240> talk<00:58:42.600> about<00:58:42.810> the<00:58:43.140> phenomena<00:58:43.710> which<00:58:43.860> occur<00:58:44.250> and<00:58:44.490> so<00:58:44.550> on.<00:58:44.850> But<00:58:45.420> it's<00:58:45.600> so<00:58:45.870> important<00:58:46.560> that<00:58:46.830> we<00:58:47.310> stop<00:58:47.820> this<00:58:48.090> process<00:58:48.720> of<00:58:48.930> sweeping

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it<00:58:49.500> under<00:58:49.620> the<00:58:49.830> carpet.<00:58:50.400> And<00:58:50.520> you<00:58:51.120> know<00:58:51.300> why<00:58:51.510> we<00:58:51.540> sweep<00:58:51.930> it<00:58:52.080> under<00:58:52.320> the<00:58:52.350> carpet?<00:58:53.060> Because<00:58:54.060> we<00:58:54.560> don't<00:58:55.560> die<00:58:56.040> like<00:58:56.610> we<00:58:56.880> used<00:58:57.150> to.<00:58:57.450> If

00:58:57.870 --> 00:59:06.570
this<00:58:58.110> was<00:58:58.320> a<00:58:58.350> Victorian<00:58:59.070> family,<00:58:59.670> I<00:58:59.880> would<00:59:00.780> already<00:59:00.960> have<00:59:01.790> two<00:59:02.790> or<00:59:02.910> three<00:59:02.990> siblings<00:59:03.990> that<00:59:04.680> had<00:59:04.830> died<00:59:05.040> when<00:59:05.640> young.<00:59:05.970> We

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did<00:59:06.840> no<00:59:07.230> antibiotics,

00:59:09.800 --> 00:59:18.780
looking,<00:59:10.800> keeping<00:59:11.310> the<00:59:11.430> place<00:59:11.670> clean<00:59:12.210> and<00:59:12.570> stopping<00:59:13.080> infections<00:59:13.890> was<00:59:14.250> very<00:59:14.550> poorly<00:59:14.880> done,<00:59:15.060> so<00:59:15.960> people<00:59:16.290> died,<00:59:16.560> and<00:59:16.980> kids<00:59:17.430> particularly.<00:59:17.970> So

00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:27.330
death<00:59:19.020> was<00:59:19.050> ever-present,<00:59:19.890> and<00:59:20.430> so<00:59:20.970> the<00:59:21.090> Victorians<00:59:21.630> were<00:59:21.750> much<00:59:21.960> better<00:59:22.200> talking<00:59:22.800> about<00:59:23.010> it<00:59:23.190> than<00:59:23.400> we<00:59:23.610> were.<00:59:23.820> Have<00:59:24.570> you<00:59:24.690> ever<00:59:24.840> seen<00:59:25.050> us<00:59:25.770> going<00:59:26.100> along<00:59:26.370> the<00:59:26.520> road<00:59:26.730> in<00:59:27.120> our

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culture<00:59:27.900> now,<00:59:28.100> what's<00:59:29.100> it<00:59:29.280> followed<00:59:29.670> by?<00:59:30.050> Cars<00:59:31.050> at<00:59:31.650> a<00:59:31.710> distance<00:59:32.310> behind<00:59:32.550> it<00:59:33.120> going<00:59:33.480> slowly?<00:59:33.900> No,<00:59:34.470> they've<00:59:34.740> all<00:59:34.860> got<00:59:35.070> their<00:59:35.220> fingers<00:59:35.640> on

00:59:35.820 --> 00:59:44.160
the<00:59:35.850> horns.<00:59:36.270> Come<00:59:36.510> on,<00:59:36.690> move<00:59:37.140> on,<00:59:37.320> get<00:59:37.860> on.<00:59:38.330> It's<00:59:39.330> not<00:59:39.540> respected.<00:59:40.550> Do<00:59:41.550> you<00:59:41.640> stand<00:59:41.970> with<00:59:42.480> your<00:59:42.630> arms<00:59:42.690> crossed<00:59:43.440> and<00:59:43.770> your<00:59:43.890> head

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bowed<00:59:44.460> when<00:59:44.760> the<00:59:44.850> hearse<00:59:45.030> goes<00:59:45.330> by?<00:59:45.600> No,<00:59:46.080> of<00:59:46.140> course<00:59:46.350> you<00:59:46.470> don't.<00:59:46.880> You've<00:59:47.880> got<00:59:48.060> many<00:59:48.570> things<00:59:48.720> which<00:59:49.110> are<00:59:49.290> much<00:59:49.440> more<00:59:49.680> important<00:59:50.160> than<00:59:50.280> that,<00:59:50.340> because<00:59:50.730> you<00:59:51.060> don't<00:59:51.420> value

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death,<00:59:52.340> simple<00:59:53.340> as<00:59:53.490> that.<00:59:53.670> But<00:59:54.300> it's<00:59:54.510> very<00:59:54.600> important,<00:59:55.440> nothing<00:59:56.370> strange<00:59:56.700> about<00:59:57.000> it.<00:59:57.210> We're<00:59:57.570> all<00:59:57.660> going<00:59:57.900> to<00:59:58.020> do<00:59:58.230> it,<00:59:58.470> so<00:59:58.650> we<00:59:58.740> might<00:59:58.890> learn<00:59:59.160> about<00:59:59.220> it,<00:59:59.930> simple.

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Doctor<01:00:02.250> Fenwick,<01:00:02.580> thank<01:00:02.970> you<01:00:03.090> very<01:00:03.300> much<01:00:03.600> for<01:00:04.380> your<01:00:04.500> time<01:00:04.800> and<01:00:05.100> your<01:00:05.190> interesting<01:00:06.060> insights<01:00:06.480> and<01:00:07.400> the<01:00:08.400> wisdom<01:00:09.110> from<01:00:10.110> your

01:00:10.290 --> 01:00:17.010
research.<01:00:10.590> Thank<01:00:11.430> you<01:00:11.520> very<01:00:11.700> much.<01:00:11.910> Well,<01:00:12.600> thank<01:00:12.630> you<01:00:13.020> very<01:00:13.200> much<01:00:13.410> for<01:00:13.950> your<01:00:14.040> questions.

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[Music]

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you