Leslie Flint: The Most Tested Medium in History?

This episode explores the extraordinary life and legacy of Leslie Flint, widely considered the most tested medium in history. For nearly forty years, investigators, researchers, and skeptics subjected Flint to rigorous physical constraints—including sealing his mouth with surgical tape and binding his hands—yet independent voices continued to speak from the darkness around him.

The documentary highlights key investigations, such as those by Reverend Charles Drayton Thomas and electrical engineering professor William Bennett, alongside remarkable personal accounts. Listeners will hear about the royal connections involving Queen Victoria and King George V, the poignant reunion of Flight Lieutenant Peter Kite with his parents, and the deeply intimate, decade-long conversations between Dr. Dinshaw Nanji and his deceased wife, Annie.

Ultimately, the episode examines the enduring mystery of Flint's direct-voice mediumship. Despite decades of scientific scrutiny, including throat microphone tests that showed no movement in Flint's vocal cords, no debunker has ever produced a fully satisfying explanation for the voices, leaving a fascinating gap between measurable science and human consciousness.

Key takeaways

• Leslie Flint was subjected to extreme physical testing, including having his mouth sealed with surgical tape and his throat monitored by microphones, yet independent voices continued to manifest.
• Prominent figures and researchers, including Columbia University professor William Bennett and Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding, investigated Flint and found no evidence of fraud.
• Flint's sittings attracted high-profile individuals, leading to reported communications from members of the royal family, including Queen Victoria and King George V.
• The case of Dr. Dinshaw Nanji and his wife Annie highlights the deeply personal nature of the sittings, featuring highly specific, verifiable details like the orientation of household bedcovers.
• Scientific tests, including larynx measurements, failed to show any vocal cord movement from Flint while the independent voices were speaking.

Highlights

• 0:00 — London, 1948: The Tape
• 2:11 — Who Was Leslie Flint
• 5:23 — William Bennett's Evidence
• 6:22 — The Royal Connection
• 8:17 — Lord Dowding and Peter Kite
• 10:15 — Dr. Dinshaw Nanji
• 15:27 — The Gap in Science
• 17:05 — Outro

00:00:00 London, 1948 — The Tape
00:02:11 Who Was Leslie Flint
00:05:23 William Bennett's Evidence
00:06:22 The Royal Connection
00:08:17 Lord Dowding and Peter kite
00:10:15 Dr. Dinshaw Nanji
00:15:27 The Gap in Science
00:17:05 Outro

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A<00:00:17.880> strip<00:00:18.240> of<00:00:18.360> surgical<00:00:18.880> tape,<00:00:19.360> 5<00:00:19.600> and<00:00:19.720> 1/2<00:00:20.080> inches<00:00:20.440> long,<00:00:21.040> pressed<00:00:21.400> firmly<00:00:21.760> into<00:00:22.000> every<00:00:22.320> crease<00:00:22.720> of<00:00:22.840> his<00:00:23.000> closed<00:00:23.480> mouth.

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Undisturbed.

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Welcome<00:02:08.560> to<00:02:08.800> Whispers<00:02:09.440> of<00:02:09.640> Hope.

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Leslie<00:02:12.840> Flint<00:02:13.200> was<00:02:13.320> born<00:02:13.560> in<00:02:13.680> London<00:02:14.040> in<00:02:14.160> 1911<00:02:15.400> into<00:02:15.680> a<00:02:15.800> home<00:02:16.120> with<00:02:16.320> very<00:02:16.560> little<00:02:16.880> money<00:02:17.720> and<00:02:17.880> even<00:02:18.160> less<00:02:18.560> patience<00:02:19.200> for<00:02:19.360> strangeness.

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And<00:02:20.840> he<00:02:21.040> was,<00:02:21.600> by<00:02:21.760> his<00:02:22.040> own<00:02:22.200> account,<00:02:23.000> a<00:02:23.120> strange<00:02:23.680> child.

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Leslie<00:02:43.440> spent<00:02:43.760> his<00:02:44.000> teenage<00:02:44.480> years<00:02:44.880> working<00:02:45.240> as<00:02:45.400> a<00:02:45.440> gravedigger.

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And<00:03:02.480> yet,<00:03:03.280> the<00:03:03.480> memories<00:03:04.000> of<00:03:04.120> the<00:03:04.239> figures<00:03:04.640> he'd<00:03:04.840> seen<00:03:05.080> as<00:03:05.239> a<00:03:05.320> child<00:03:05.760> never<00:03:06.080> quite<00:03:06.400> left<00:03:06.680> him.

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He<00:04:45.840> began<00:04:46.240> sitting<00:04:46.640> in<00:04:46.800> darkened<00:04:47.280> rooms<00:04:47.760> with<00:04:47.960> small<00:04:48.320> circles<00:04:48.760> of<00:04:48.880> strangers.

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And<00:04:50.400> something<00:04:50.800> extraordinary<00:04:51.680> started<00:04:52.120> happening<00:04:52.560> near<00:04:52.800> him.

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Not<00:04:54.080> from<00:04:54.240> his<00:04:54.400> mouth,<00:04:55.600> from<00:04:55.800> somewhere<00:04:56.160> close<00:04:56.520> by<00:04:56.960> in<00:04:57.080> the<00:04:57.160> dark.

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A<00:04:58.480> voice<00:04:58.919> would<00:04:59.080> gather<00:04:59.400> itself<00:04:59.880> out<00:05:00.000> of<00:05:00.160> nothing<00:05:00.880> and<00:05:01.120> speak.

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A<00:05:02.520> young<00:05:02.880> Cockney<00:05:03.360> spirit,<00:05:03.880> who<00:05:04.040> called<00:05:04.280> himself<00:05:04.720> Mickey,<00:05:05.120> became<00:05:05.480> a<00:05:05.520> familiar<00:05:06.040> presence<00:05:06.520> in<00:05:06.680> those<00:05:06.960> sittings.

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Word<00:05:09.160> spread.<00:05:10.280> Within<00:05:10.560> a<00:05:10.600> few<00:05:10.840> years,<00:05:11.160> Flint<00:05:11.440> was<00:05:11.600> filling<00:05:11.919> halls<00:05:12.240> of<00:05:12.360> nearly<00:05:12.680> 2,000<00:05:13.320> people.

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And<00:05:14.520> then,<00:05:14.680> the<00:05:14.800> testing<00:05:15.200> began<00:05:15.520> in<00:05:15.680> earnest.<00:05:16.600> Because<00:05:16.880> if<00:05:17.000> the<00:05:17.080> voices<00:05:17.560> were<00:05:17.760> real,<00:05:18.400> science<00:05:19.040> wanted<00:05:19.400> to<00:05:19.520> know.

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And<00:05:20.520> if<00:05:20.640> they<00:05:20.800> weren't,<00:05:21.680> science<00:05:22.280> wanted<00:05:22.680> to<00:05:22.760> catch<00:05:23.160> him.

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You<00:05:24.680> already<00:05:25.040> saw<00:05:25.320> how<00:05:25.480> Charles<00:05:25.880> Drayton<00:05:26.280> Thomas<00:05:26.720> tested<00:05:27.200> him.

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He<00:05:28.160> wasn't<00:05:28.440> the<00:05:28.600> only<00:05:28.880> one.<00:05:29.840> In<00:05:30.000> September<00:05:30.480> of<00:05:30.600> 1970,<00:05:31.919> an<00:05:32.040> electrical<00:05:32.600> engineering<00:05:33.120> professor<00:05:33.600> from<00:05:33.840> Columbia<00:05:34.320> University,<00:05:35.160> William<00:05:35.520> Bennett,<00:05:36.360> found

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himself<00:05:37.080> at<00:05:37.200> an<00:05:37.320> impromptu<00:05:37.919> sitting<00:05:38.360> in<00:05:38.440> his<00:05:38.640> own<00:05:38.840> New<00:05:39.000> York<00:05:39.240> apartment.

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Nothing<00:05:41.120> was<00:05:41.280> arranged<00:05:41.800> in<00:05:41.880> advance.<00:05:43.120> No<00:05:43.240> time<00:05:43.520> to<00:05:43.640> plant<00:05:43.960> a<00:05:44.000> device.

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No<00:05:45.440> time<00:05:45.680> to<00:05:45.800> brief<00:05:46.200> an<00:05:46.360> accomplice.<00:05:47.720> The<00:05:47.960> voices<00:05:48.480> came<00:05:48.760> anyway<00:05:49.760> and<00:05:49.880> did<00:05:50.080> more<00:05:50.280> than<00:05:50.480> speak.

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They<00:05:51.760> held<00:05:52.040> conversations<00:05:53.400> with<00:05:53.600> Bennett's<00:05:54.040> guests,<00:05:55.000> people<00:05:55.320> Flint<00:05:55.600> had<00:05:55.720> never<00:05:55.960> met<00:05:56.160> before<00:05:56.560> that<00:05:56.760> evening.

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Bennett<00:05:58.360> wrote<00:05:58.640> about<00:05:58.960> it<00:05:59.160> afterward.<00:06:00.400> He<00:06:00.560> said<00:06:00.800> he'd<00:06:00.960> gone<00:06:01.240> in<00:06:01.360> prepared<00:06:01.800> to<00:06:01.920> consider<00:06:02.440> every<00:06:02.880> possible<00:06:03.520> trick,<00:06:04.600> including<00:06:05.240> a<00:06:05.320> hidden<00:06:05.680> accomplice.

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He<00:06:07.280> said<00:06:07.560> that<00:06:07.760> explanation<00:06:08.440> became<00:06:08.760> impossible<00:06:09.440> for<00:06:09.600> him<00:06:09.760> to<00:06:09.880> hold<00:06:10.160> on<00:06:10.320> to<00:06:11.200> once<00:06:11.560> he'd<00:06:11.800> sat<00:06:12.120> in<00:06:12.200> his<00:06:12.400> own<00:06:12.600> front<00:06:12.960> room<00:06:13.320> and<00:06:13.440> heard<00:06:13.680> it<00:06:13.840> happen<00:06:14.600> inches<00:06:15.000> away<00:06:16.240> in

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voices<00:06:17.000> that<00:06:17.200> were<00:06:17.320> not<00:06:17.640> Flint's.

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Word<00:06:23.240> of<00:06:23.400> Leslie<00:06:23.760> Flint's<00:06:24.240> sittings<00:06:24.760> spread<00:06:25.200> far<00:06:25.480> beyond<00:06:25.919> psychical<00:06:26.440> circles.

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Some<00:06:28.000> of<00:06:28.080> those<00:06:28.320> who<00:06:28.440> came<00:06:28.800> did<00:06:29.080> so<00:06:29.360> quietly,<00:06:30.840> very<00:06:31.600> quietly.

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According<00:06:33.760> to<00:06:33.880> Flint's<00:06:34.280> own<00:06:34.480> memoir,<00:06:35.400> one<00:06:35.600> evening<00:06:36.000> two<00:06:36.200> women<00:06:36.520> sat<00:06:36.880> together<00:06:37.280> in<00:06:37.400> the<00:06:37.480> darkness<00:06:38.240> as<00:06:38.400> an<00:06:38.560> elderly<00:06:39.080> man's<00:06:39.480> voice<00:06:40.200> slowly<00:06:40.760> began<00:06:41.120> to<00:06:41.280> speak.

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To<00:06:43.000> Flint's<00:06:43.320> astonishment,<00:06:44.440> they<00:06:44.600> both<00:06:45.120> rose<00:06:45.440> to<00:06:45.560> their<00:06:45.760> feet.

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"Your<00:06:47.080> majesty,"<00:06:48.480> they<00:06:48.720> said.

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The<00:06:49.840> voice<00:06:50.200> replied,<00:06:51.560> "Yes,<00:06:52.520> I<00:06:52.680> am<00:06:52.880> George,<00:06:53.880> who<00:06:54.040> was<00:06:54.200> known<00:06:54.440> on<00:06:54.560> Earth<00:06:54.840> as<00:06:55.000> King<00:06:55.360> George<00:06:55.720> V."

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The<00:06:57.600> women<00:06:57.919> later<00:06:58.240> revealed<00:06:58.800> they<00:06:58.919> had<00:06:59.080> both<00:06:59.400> served<00:06:59.760> within<00:07:00.000> the<00:07:00.120> royal<00:07:00.480> household<00:07:01.040> and<00:07:01.240> recognized<00:07:01.840> the<00:07:01.960> late<00:07:02.200> King's<00:07:02.560> voice<00:07:02.919> immediately.

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They<00:07:05.440> returned<00:07:05.919> again<00:07:06.680> and<00:07:06.800> this<00:07:07.000> time<00:07:07.240> brought<00:07:07.520> a<00:07:07.560> third<00:07:07.960> sitter<00:07:08.240> with<00:07:08.440> them,<00:07:09.080> a<00:07:09.160> tall,<00:07:09.600> dignified<00:07:10.280> man<00:07:10.600> named<00:07:10.919> James.

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James<00:07:12.760> was<00:07:12.919> house<00:07:13.240> steward<00:07:13.640> to<00:07:13.760> Princess<00:07:14.160> Louise,<00:07:15.040> Queen<00:07:15.240> Victoria's<00:07:15.800> own<00:07:15.960> daughter,<00:07:16.720> at<00:07:16.840> Kensington<00:07:17.360> Palace.

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He<00:07:18.800> became<00:07:19.120> a<00:07:19.160> regular<00:07:19.600> sitter<00:07:19.919> himself<00:07:20.960> and<00:07:21.080> it<00:07:21.160> was<00:07:21.280> through<00:07:21.520> his<00:07:21.720> sittings,<00:07:22.240> month<00:07:22.600> after<00:07:22.840> month,<00:07:23.200> that<00:07:23.400> Queen<00:07:23.680> Victoria<00:07:24.280> came<00:07:24.560> through,<00:07:25.400> sending<00:07:25.880> her<00:07:26.000> daughter

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loving<00:07:26.720> messages<00:07:27.600> along<00:07:27.919> with<00:07:28.080> word<00:07:28.360> from<00:07:28.520> the<00:07:28.600> husband<00:07:29.000> Louise<00:07:29.440> had<00:07:29.600> lost<00:07:29.919> years<00:07:30.160> before.

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Those<00:07:32.520> remarkable<00:07:33.240> sittings<00:07:33.720> eventually<00:07:34.320> led<00:07:34.640> to<00:07:34.760> an<00:07:34.880> invitation<00:07:35.600> Flint<00:07:36.240> never<00:07:36.640> expected.

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Kensington<00:07:38.880> Palace.<00:07:40.120> There<00:07:40.680> he<00:07:40.840> met<00:07:41.120> Princess<00:07:41.720> Louise,<00:07:42.600> Queen<00:07:42.920> Victoria's<00:07:43.560> own<00:07:43.800> daughter.

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They<00:07:45.560> talked<00:07:45.880> for<00:07:46.080> over<00:07:46.320> an<00:07:46.480> hour<00:07:47.440> about<00:07:47.800> the<00:07:47.880> messages<00:07:48.440> James<00:07:48.800> had<00:07:48.960> brought<00:07:49.280> her<00:07:49.560> over<00:07:49.800> the<00:07:49.920> years<00:07:51.080> from<00:07:51.360> her<00:07:51.480> mother<00:07:52.360> and<00:07:52.560> the<00:07:52.680> husband<00:07:53.120> she'd<00:07:53.360> lost.

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She<00:07:54.960> told<00:07:55.200> him<00:07:55.320> something<00:07:55.680> he<00:07:55.840> never<00:07:56.160> forgot.<00:07:57.440> She<00:07:57.720> said<00:07:58.000> she<00:07:58.160> no<00:07:58.320> longer<00:07:58.720> feared<00:07:59.320> death.

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She<00:08:00.880> thought<00:08:01.160> of<00:08:01.280> it,<00:08:01.480> she<00:08:01.680> said,<00:08:02.520> not<00:08:02.720> as<00:08:02.880> an<00:08:03.000> ending,<00:08:03.800> but<00:08:03.960> as<00:08:04.080> a<00:08:04.160> kind<00:08:04.480> of<00:08:04.600> immigration,<00:08:06.000> a<00:08:06.160> journey<00:08:06.640> to<00:08:06.800> another<00:08:07.120> country<00:08:08.080> where<00:08:08.240> the<00:08:08.360> people<00:08:08.680> she

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loved<00:08:09.240> were<00:08:09.400> already<00:08:09.800> waiting<00:08:10.160> for<00:08:10.360> her.

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Lord<00:08:19.040> Dowding<00:08:19.520> was<00:08:19.640> not<00:08:19.840> only<00:08:20.040> the<00:08:20.200> Air<00:08:20.360> Chief<00:08:20.640> Marshal<00:08:21.160> who<00:08:21.360> led<00:08:21.560> RAF<00:08:22.000> Fighter<00:08:22.280> Command<00:08:22.680> through<00:08:22.880> the<00:08:23.000> Battle<00:08:23.400> of<00:08:23.480> Britain.

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He<00:08:24.800> also<00:08:25.080> spent<00:08:25.440> many<00:08:25.720> years<00:08:26.080> investigating<00:08:26.880> one<00:08:27.120> question<00:08:27.640> that<00:08:27.840> haunted<00:08:28.280> countless<00:08:28.840> families<00:08:29.360> after<00:08:29.640> the<00:08:29.760> war.

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Could<00:08:31.000> those<00:08:31.280> who<00:08:31.360> had<00:08:31.520> fallen<00:08:31.919> still<00:08:32.200> survive?<00:08:34.120> By<00:08:34.360> 1943,<00:08:35.520> after<00:08:35.919> years<00:08:36.479> of<00:08:36.599> his<00:08:36.840> own<00:08:37.000> investigations,<00:08:38.240> he<00:08:38.360> spoke<00:08:38.680> publicly<00:08:39.159> about

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his<00:08:39.640> conclusions.

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Yet<00:09:04.800> even<00:09:05.040> then,<00:09:05.480> he<00:09:05.600> continued<00:09:06.120> searching.

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That<00:09:07.839> search<00:09:08.120> eventually<00:09:08.640> brought<00:09:08.920> him<00:09:09.040> into<00:09:09.320> Leslie<00:09:09.680> Flint's<00:09:10.120> seance<00:09:10.560> room.

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During<00:09:12.040> one<00:09:12.160> of<00:09:12.280> those<00:09:12.520> sittings,<00:09:13.360> a<00:09:13.440> young<00:09:13.760> RAF<00:09:14.160> pilot<00:09:14.520> came<00:09:14.760> through.

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His<00:09:15.839> name<00:09:16.120> was<00:09:16.280> Flight<00:09:16.560> Lieutenant<00:09:17.040> Peter<00:09:17.360> Kite.

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He<00:09:18.440> gave<00:09:18.640> his<00:09:18.839> full<00:09:19.080> name<00:09:19.360> and<00:09:19.520> asked<00:09:19.800> that<00:09:19.920> his<00:09:20.080> parents<00:09:20.480> be<00:09:20.640> found.

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When<00:09:22.160> they<00:09:22.280> came<00:09:22.600> to<00:09:22.720> a<00:09:22.800> later<00:09:23.160> sitting,<00:09:23.839> he<00:09:24.000> spoke<00:09:24.320> with<00:09:24.480> them<00:09:24.720> for<00:09:24.880> nearly<00:09:25.200> 40<00:09:25.600> minutes<00:09:26.000> in<00:09:26.160> what<00:09:26.320> they<00:09:26.480> said<00:09:26.880> was<00:09:27.120> unmistakably<00:09:27.880> his<00:09:28.120> own<00:09:28.280> voice.

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He<00:09:30.000> reminded<00:09:30.520> them<00:09:30.720> of<00:09:30.880> a<00:09:30.960> joke<00:09:31.360> he'd<00:09:31.560> once<00:09:31.800> made<00:09:32.080> about<00:09:32.400> buying<00:09:32.760> a<00:09:32.839> German<00:09:33.320> Shepherd.

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He<00:09:34.320> knew<00:09:34.520> his<00:09:34.680> mother<00:09:35.000> had<00:09:35.200> placed<00:09:35.560> photographs<00:09:36.160> of<00:09:36.320> him<00:09:36.960> and<00:09:37.240> of<00:09:37.440> his<00:09:37.680> grave<00:09:38.360> all<00:09:38.560> the<00:09:38.680> way<00:09:38.880> over<00:09:39.160> in<00:09:39.240> Norway<00:09:40.160> inside<00:09:40.560> her<00:09:40.680> handbag<00:09:41.160> that<00:09:41.360> very<00:09:41.640> morning.

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He<00:09:42.600> spoke<00:09:42.880> of<00:09:42.960> the<00:09:43.080> cherry<00:09:43.400> tree<00:09:43.640> they<00:09:43.800> had<00:09:43.960> planted<00:09:44.320> in<00:09:44.440> his<00:09:44.600> memory.

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He<00:09:45.840> said<00:09:46.040> his<00:09:46.240> room<00:09:46.440> had<00:09:46.560> remained<00:09:47.000> untouched<00:09:47.560> for<00:09:47.760> 6<00:09:48.120> years,<00:09:48.840> admitted<00:09:49.320> he<00:09:49.440> had<00:09:49.600> never<00:09:49.880> liked<00:09:50.200> the<00:09:50.280> wallpaper,<00:09:51.000> and<00:09:51.200> even<00:09:51.440> remarked<00:09:51.880> that<00:09:52.000> his<00:09:52.200> father<00:09:52.520> was<00:09:52.720> still<00:09:53.040> driving

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the<00:09:53.560> little<00:09:53.840> car<00:09:54.360> that<00:09:54.560> had<00:09:54.760> always<00:09:55.080> been<00:09:55.320> too<00:09:55.520> small<00:09:55.960> for<00:09:56.200> him.

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His<00:09:58.000> parents<00:09:58.360> didn't<00:09:58.640> need<00:09:58.840> convincing.<00:10:00.160> They<00:10:00.320> said<00:10:00.680> simply<00:10:01.120> that<00:10:01.400> they<00:10:01.640> had<00:10:01.840> spoken<00:10:02.280> to<00:10:02.400> their<00:10:02.560> son.

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There's<00:10:16.320> another<00:10:16.680> case,<00:10:17.520> quieter,<00:10:18.600> that<00:10:18.840> never<00:10:19.240> made<00:10:19.520> a<00:10:19.600> headline.

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Just<00:10:21.400> a<00:10:21.480> man<00:10:21.760> who<00:10:21.920> kept<00:10:22.200> coming<00:10:22.520> back<00:10:23.400> twice<00:10:23.840> a<00:10:23.920> year<00:10:24.880> for<00:10:25.000> the<00:10:25.120> rest<00:10:25.480> of<00:10:25.560> his<00:10:25.760> life.

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His<00:10:27.520> name<00:10:27.760> was<00:10:27.960> Dr.<00:10:28.280> Dinshaw<00:10:28.720> Nanji,<00:10:29.680> a<00:10:29.760> professor<00:10:30.280> of<00:10:30.400> biochemistry<00:10:31.160> at<00:10:31.280> the<00:10:31.360> University<00:10:31.960> of<00:10:32.080> Birmingham.

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Annie<00:10:34.000> called<00:10:34.320> him<00:10:35.120> Dino.<00:10:36.560> They<00:10:36.680> were<00:10:36.800> happily<00:10:37.120> married<00:10:37.480> until<00:10:37.720> 1966<00:10:38.920> when<00:10:39.080> Annie<00:10:39.320> died.

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4<00:10:41.400> years<00:10:41.640> later,<00:10:42.120> still<00:10:42.400> grieving,<00:10:43.440> he<00:10:43.520> went<00:10:43.760> looking<00:10:44.080> for<00:10:44.240> a<00:10:44.320> way<00:10:44.520> back<00:10:44.800> to<00:10:44.960> her<00:10:45.720> and<00:10:45.839> found<00:10:46.240> Leslie<00:10:46.680> Flint.

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From<00:10:48.520> 1970<00:10:49.360> into<00:10:49.560> the<00:10:49.720> early<00:10:49.960> 1980s,<00:10:51.160> Dino<00:10:51.480> traveled<00:10:51.960> twice<00:10:52.360> a<00:10:52.440> year<00:10:52.680> to<00:10:52.839> sit<00:10:53.120> with<00:10:53.320> Flint,<00:10:54.200> just<00:10:54.480> the<00:10:54.600> two<00:10:54.800> of<00:10:54.920> them<00:10:55.480> in<00:10:55.560> that<00:10:55.800> same<00:10:56.240> darkened<00:10:56.800> room.

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And<00:10:57.920> every<00:10:58.160> single<00:10:58.520> time,<00:10:59.120> without<00:10:59.520> fail,<00:11:00.320> Annie<00:11:00.640> came<00:11:00.920> through<00:11:01.680> and<00:11:01.880> spoke.

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Not<00:11:03.560> grand<00:11:04.160> speeches,<00:11:05.280> small<00:11:05.720> things,<00:11:06.760> ordinary<00:11:07.440> things,<00:11:08.600> the<00:11:08.720> kind<00:11:09.000> of<00:11:09.120> things<00:11:09.640> only<00:11:10.000> someone<00:11:10.480> who<00:11:10.600> had<00:11:10.760> truly<00:11:11.120> known<00:11:11.480> him

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would<00:11:11.880> ever<00:11:12.080> think<00:11:12.480> to<00:11:12.600> mention.<00:11:13.640> She<00:11:13.880> asked<00:11:14.200> if<00:11:14.320> he<00:11:14.440> still<00:11:14.800> had<00:11:15.000> her<00:11:15.160> lock<00:11:15.480> of<00:11:15.560> her<00:11:15.720> hair.

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He<00:11:16.880> said,<00:11:17.160> "Yes.<00:11:18.440> Everything<00:11:18.920> stays<00:11:19.400> here<00:11:19.640> with<00:11:19.880> me."

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She<00:11:21.560> teased<00:11:22.000> him<00:11:22.520> more<00:11:22.720> than<00:11:22.960> once<00:11:23.720> about<00:11:24.000> the<00:11:24.120> same<00:11:24.640> old<00:11:25.000> tattered<00:11:25.400> hat<00:11:25.760> he<00:11:25.880> refused<00:11:26.360> to<00:11:26.480> give<00:11:26.720> up<00:11:27.200> and<00:11:27.360> told<00:11:27.600> him<00:11:27.720> to<00:11:27.839> go<00:11:28.120> and<00:11:28.280> buy<00:11:28.480> himself<00:11:28.960> a<00:11:29.040> new<00:11:29.280> one,<00:11:30.280> her

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gift<00:11:30.800> to<00:11:30.920> him,<00:11:31.480> she<00:11:31.720> said,<00:11:32.040> for<00:11:32.160> Christmas.

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She<00:11:33.800> asked<00:11:34.080> him<00:11:34.240> to<00:11:34.400> hang<00:11:34.680> certain<00:11:35.080> pictures<00:11:35.560> over<00:11:35.760> the<00:11:35.880> bed<00:11:36.200> in<00:11:36.320> a<00:11:36.400> particular<00:11:37.000> arrangement,<00:11:38.120> and<00:11:38.320> on<00:11:38.440> the<00:11:38.560> visit<00:11:38.920> after<00:11:39.160> that<00:11:39.520> told<00:11:39.760> him<00:11:39.960> how<00:11:40.120> much<00:11:40.400> she<00:11:40.560> loved<00:11:40.960> seeing

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them<00:11:41.440> there.<00:11:42.960> She<00:11:43.200> went<00:11:43.400> with<00:11:43.560> him<00:11:43.760> to<00:11:43.880> the<00:11:44.000> cemetery,<00:11:44.520> too,<00:11:45.440> unseen,<00:11:46.760> and<00:11:47.000> watched<00:11:47.320> him<00:11:47.480> tend<00:11:47.760> her<00:11:47.920> grave.

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Once<00:11:49.760> she<00:11:50.000> worried<00:11:50.360> aloud<00:11:50.720> that<00:11:50.840> the<00:11:50.960> visits<00:11:51.400> made<00:11:51.600> him<00:11:51.760> sad,<00:11:52.640> he<00:11:52.760> insisted<00:11:53.240> they<00:11:53.360> didn't.

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And<00:11:55.000> she<00:11:55.120> told<00:11:55.400> him,<00:11:55.680> gently,<00:11:56.640> that<00:11:56.840> she<00:11:57.000> wasn't<00:11:57.360> really<00:11:57.600> there.

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That<00:11:59.000> the<00:11:59.160> only<00:11:59.400> time<00:11:59.840> she<00:12:00.080> was<00:12:00.320> ever<00:12:00.600> in<00:12:00.720> that<00:12:00.920> cemetery<00:12:01.480> at<00:12:01.680> all<00:12:01.920> was<00:12:02.120> when<00:12:02.280> he<00:12:02.440> came<00:12:02.640> looking<00:12:03.000> for<00:12:03.240> her.

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And<00:12:04.640> she<00:12:04.840> noticed,<00:12:05.760> with<00:12:05.960> something<00:12:06.360> between<00:12:06.760> tenderness<00:12:07.480> and<00:12:07.600> amusement,<00:12:08.600> that<00:12:08.760> he'd<00:12:08.960> already<00:12:09.400> had<00:12:09.680> his<00:12:09.840> own<00:12:10.080> name<00:12:10.800> carved<00:12:11.200> into<00:12:11.440> their<00:12:11.680> shared<00:12:12.160> headstone<00:12:13.120> beside

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hers,<00:12:14.640> with<00:12:14.800> no<00:12:15.040> date<00:12:15.440> beside<00:12:15.880> it<00:12:16.040> yet,<00:12:16.840> because,<00:12:17.200> she<00:12:17.400> said,<00:12:18.120> he<00:12:18.240> didn't<00:12:18.560> know<00:12:18.760> yet<00:12:19.120> when<00:12:19.320> he'd<00:12:19.520> be<00:12:19.680> coming.

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And<00:12:21.480> then,<00:12:22.080> one<00:12:22.360> visit,<00:12:23.280> she<00:12:23.480> mentioned<00:12:23.920> the<00:12:24.000> bedcovers.

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She<00:12:25.600> couldn't<00:12:25.880> quite<00:12:26.160> explain<00:12:26.680> what<00:12:26.880> was<00:12:27.080> different<00:12:27.440> about<00:12:27.800> them.

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The<00:12:28.520> same<00:12:28.920> yellow<00:12:29.280> covers<00:12:29.720> she<00:12:29.920> had<00:12:30.000> chosen<00:12:30.400> years<00:12:30.800> before.

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Nothing<00:12:32.200> changed,<00:12:33.240> and<00:12:33.480> yet,<00:12:34.480> something.

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She<00:12:35.880> asked<00:12:36.160> him<00:12:36.360> carefully<00:12:37.080> if<00:12:37.200> he<00:12:37.360> was<00:12:37.480> quite<00:12:37.760> certain<00:12:38.120> he<00:12:38.320> had<00:12:38.560> them<00:12:38.720> the<00:12:38.880> right<00:12:39.200> way<00:12:39.360> round.

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He<00:12:40.640> wasn't<00:12:41.000> sure.<00:12:42.480> He<00:12:42.680> went<00:12:42.960> home.

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He<00:12:44.040> checked.<00:12:45.280> She<00:12:45.520> was<00:12:45.720> right.

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One<00:12:47.040> of<00:12:47.120> the<00:12:47.200> bedspreads<00:12:47.880> had<00:12:48.000> been<00:12:48.200> lying<00:12:48.560> on<00:12:48.680> the<00:12:48.760> bed<00:12:49.080> the<00:12:49.200> wrong<00:12:49.480> way<00:12:49.640> round<00:12:50.040> the<00:12:50.160> entire<00:12:50.600> time,<00:12:51.440> and<00:12:51.560> no<00:12:51.720> living<00:12:52.040> person<00:12:52.440> had<00:12:52.600> told<00:12:52.880> him.

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He<00:12:53.920> photographed<00:12:54.560> it,<00:12:55.160> half<00:12:55.440> turned<00:12:55.760> the<00:12:55.880> right<00:12:56.160> way<00:12:56.480> and<00:12:56.680> half<00:12:56.960> turned<00:12:57.240> the<00:12:57.320> wrong,<00:12:58.160> just<00:12:58.440> to<00:12:58.520> prove<00:12:58.839> it<00:12:58.960> to<00:12:59.040> himself.

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And<00:13:00.600> at<00:13:00.760> his<00:13:00.920> next<00:13:01.240> sitting,<00:13:01.760> six<00:13:02.120> months<00:13:02.440> later,<00:13:03.080> he<00:13:03.240> told<00:13:03.520> her<00:13:03.640> so.

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She<00:13:04.760> laughed.

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This<00:13:08.080> is<00:13:08.320> Annie<00:13:08.680> Nanjee<00:13:09.240> herself,<00:13:10.440> recorded<00:13:11.000> by<00:13:11.160> Leslie<00:13:11.640> Flint,<00:13:12.680> used<00:13:13.160> with<00:13:13.320> permission<00:13:13.839> of<00:13:13.960> the<00:13:14.080> Leslie<00:13:14.480> Flint<00:13:14.839> Trust.

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Sometimes<00:13:17.775> you<00:13:18.030> see<00:13:18.286> little<00:13:18.541> things<00:13:18.796> that<00:13:19.051> are<00:13:19.307> good,<00:13:19.562> because<00:13:19.817> [clears<00:13:20.072> throat]<00:13:20.328> there<00:13:20.583> are<00:13:20.838> things<00:13:21.093> you<00:13:21.349> don't<00:13:21.604> think<00:13:21.859> about,<00:13:22.114> and<00:13:22.370> they<00:13:22.625> are<00:13:22.880> important

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in<00:13:23.760> a<00:13:23.839> way.<00:13:24.440> The<00:13:24.600> proof,<00:13:25.080> you<00:13:25.160> know?

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Yes.<00:13:26.000> I<00:13:26.240> looked<00:13:26.520> at<00:13:26.600> the<00:13:26.680> old<00:13:26.880> mirror,<00:13:27.520> the<00:13:27.600> clock.

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Yes.

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There's<00:13:33.040> no<00:13:33.320> Elastoplast<00:13:34.240> strip<00:13:34.680> for<00:13:34.840> a<00:13:34.920> grief<00:13:35.280> that<00:13:35.520> private.

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No<00:13:36.760> instrument<00:13:37.320> that<00:13:37.480> can<00:13:37.680> measure<00:13:38.040> a<00:13:38.120> bedspread<00:13:38.800> only<00:13:39.040> two<00:13:39.280> people<00:13:39.680> would<00:13:39.960> ever<00:13:40.240> have<00:13:40.560> reason<00:13:40.920> to<00:13:41.040> notice.

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All<00:13:42.280> that's<00:13:42.520> left<00:13:42.840> is<00:13:42.920> a<00:13:43.000> recording<00:13:44.160> and<00:13:44.320> a<00:13:44.360> man<00:13:44.720> who<00:13:44.920> returned<00:13:45.720> twice<00:13:46.120> a<00:13:46.200> year<00:13:46.760> for<00:13:46.880> the<00:13:47.000> rest<00:13:47.320> of<00:13:47.400> his<00:13:47.600> life<00:13:48.880> to<00:13:49.040> a<00:13:49.120> voice<00:13:49.520> he<00:13:49.640> never<00:13:49.920> once<00:13:50.160> believed

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was<00:13:50.800> anyone<00:13:51.200> but<00:13:51.360> his<00:13:51.520> wife.

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So,<00:13:58.640> what<00:13:58.960> do<00:13:59.080> we<00:13:59.200> do<00:13:59.480> with<00:13:59.600> a<00:13:59.680> story<00:14:00.120> like<00:14:00.400> this?

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We<00:14:01.720> could<00:14:01.920> argue<00:14:02.240> it<00:14:02.360> forever.<00:14:03.280> People<00:14:03.680> have<00:14:04.320> for<00:14:04.480> the<00:14:04.600> better<00:14:04.840> part<00:14:05.040> of<00:14:05.160> a<00:14:05.200> century.

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Skeptics<00:14:07.240> propose<00:14:07.720> tricks.<00:14:08.640> Believers<00:14:09.280> propose<00:14:09.800> miracles.

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Neither<00:14:11.240> side<00:14:11.720> has<00:14:12.000> ever<00:14:12.280> fully<00:14:12.640> closed<00:14:13.080> the<00:14:13.200> case.

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What<00:14:15.120> made<00:14:15.480> Leslie<00:14:15.840> Flint<00:14:16.200> different<00:14:16.760> was<00:14:16.920> not<00:14:17.160> simply<00:14:17.560> that<00:14:17.840> messages<00:14:18.480> were<00:14:18.640> received.

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It<00:14:19.880> was<00:14:20.040> the<00:14:20.160> voices<00:14:20.680> themselves.<00:14:21.800> Male<00:14:22.240> voices,<00:14:23.040> female<00:14:23.520> voices,<00:14:24.200> young<00:14:24.560> voices,<00:14:25.520> elderly<00:14:26.040> voices<00:14:27.200> speaking<00:14:27.680> independently<00:14:29.400> from

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different<00:14:30.080> parts<00:14:30.440> of<00:14:30.560> the<00:14:30.680> room<00:14:32.000> while<00:14:32.360> Flint<00:14:32.720> himself<00:14:33.200> sat<00:14:33.520> silent.

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During<00:14:35.960> one<00:14:36.160> investigation,<00:14:37.040> researchers<00:14:37.760> even<00:14:38.000> attached<00:14:38.480> a<00:14:38.560> throat<00:14:39.040> microphone<00:14:39.640> directly<00:14:40.200> over<00:14:40.440> his<00:14:40.640> larynx<00:14:41.600> while<00:14:41.839> placing<00:14:42.240> separate<00:14:42.720> microphones<00:14:43.320> around<00:14:43.600> the

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room.<00:14:44.640> The<00:14:44.800> readings<00:14:45.400> showed<00:14:45.800> no<00:14:45.960> movement<00:14:46.440> from<00:14:46.640> his<00:14:46.800> vocal<00:14:47.160> cords.

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Yet<00:14:48.520> voices<00:14:49.040> continued<00:14:49.640> to<00:14:49.760> be<00:14:49.920> heard.

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Investigators<00:14:51.920> argued<00:14:52.280> for<00:14:52.440> decades<00:14:53.000> over<00:14:53.200> how<00:14:53.360> such<00:14:53.640> a<00:14:53.680> thing<00:14:53.920> could<00:14:54.080> happen.

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But<00:14:57.640> here's<00:14:57.960> what's<00:14:58.160> true.<00:14:59.120> Whichever<00:14:59.560> side<00:14:59.960> you<00:15:00.080> find<00:15:00.360> yourself<00:15:00.839> standing<00:15:01.360> on,<00:15:02.160> no<00:15:02.480> one,<00:15:03.160> not<00:15:03.400> the<00:15:03.480> most<00:15:03.800> determined<00:15:04.320> debunker<00:15:05.120> across<00:15:05.520> nearly

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a<00:15:05.920> hundred<00:15:06.280> years<00:15:06.520> of<00:15:06.640> trying,<00:15:07.520> has<00:15:07.720> ever<00:15:07.960> produced<00:15:08.400> a<00:15:08.480> full<00:15:08.960> satisfying<00:15:09.720> explanation<00:15:10.839> for<00:15:11.000> where<00:15:11.200> those<00:15:11.520> voices<00:15:11.960> came<00:15:12.240> from.

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Not<00:15:13.680> one<00:15:13.880> that's<00:15:14.120> convinced<00:15:14.680> everyone.<00:15:15.880> Not<00:15:16.160> one<00:15:16.400> that's<00:15:16.720> ended<00:15:17.120> the<00:15:17.200> conversation.

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And<00:15:19.120> maybe<00:15:19.360> that's<00:15:19.640> the<00:15:19.760> more<00:15:19.960> honest<00:15:20.280> place<00:15:20.520> to<00:15:20.680> stand,<00:15:21.520> not<00:15:22.040> this<00:15:22.400> proves<00:15:23.000> everything.

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Just<00:15:25.400> this<00:15:25.520> has<00:15:25.640> never<00:15:25.880> been<00:15:26.080> fully<00:15:26.440> explained<00:15:26.920> away.

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Because<00:15:29.320> here's<00:15:29.600> the<00:15:29.720> part<00:15:30.080> science<00:15:30.600> still<00:15:30.880> can't<00:15:31.240> answer.

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Tape<00:15:32.400> recorder<00:15:32.960> or<00:15:33.160> no<00:15:33.400> tape<00:15:33.680> recorder,<00:15:34.760> nobody<00:15:35.200> actually<00:15:35.560> knows<00:15:35.960> what<00:15:36.120> consciousness<00:15:36.800> is<00:15:37.520> or<00:15:37.680> where<00:15:37.880> it<00:15:38.040> comes<00:15:38.440> from<00:15:39.320> or<00:15:39.480> why<00:15:39.760> it<00:15:39.920> exists<00:15:40.440> at

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all.<00:15:41.760> We<00:15:41.880> can<00:15:42.120> watch<00:15:42.440> a<00:15:42.520> brain.

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We<00:15:43.560> cannot<00:15:43.880> find<00:15:44.200> the<00:15:44.320> mind<00:15:44.800> inside<00:15:45.320> it.

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That<00:15:46.280> gap<00:15:46.600> hasn't<00:15:46.960> closed<00:15:47.520> in<00:15:47.640> a<00:15:47.680> hundred<00:15:48.080> years<00:15:48.400> of<00:15:48.560> trying.

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And<00:15:49.760> it<00:15:49.880> may<00:15:50.040> be<00:15:50.160> the<00:15:50.320> widest,<00:15:51.360> strangest<00:15:51.720> gap<00:15:52.000> in<00:15:52.160> all<00:15:52.320> of<00:15:52.440> science.

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The<00:15:53.880> space<00:15:54.280> between<00:15:54.640> the<00:15:54.720> matter<00:15:55.080> we<00:15:55.200> can<00:15:55.400> measure<00:15:56.360> and<00:15:56.440> the<00:15:56.560> awareness<00:15:57.160> that<00:15:57.320> somehow<00:15:57.680> sits<00:15:58.000> on<00:15:58.120> top<00:15:58.320> of<00:15:58.480> it<00:15:58.840> looking<00:15:59.200> out.

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What<00:16:01.120> stories<00:16:01.560> like<00:16:01.800> this<00:16:02.080> suggest,<00:16:03.240> and<00:16:03.320> many<00:16:03.600> others,<00:16:04.360> if<00:16:04.560> you<00:16:04.640> let<00:16:04.880> them,<00:16:05.560> is<00:16:05.640> something<00:16:06.000> simple.

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Underneath<00:16:07.480> all<00:16:07.640> the<00:16:07.800> tape<00:16:08.240> and<00:16:08.440> cord<00:16:08.880> and<00:16:09.040> testing<00:16:09.480> equipment,<00:16:11.000> that<00:16:11.080> the<00:16:11.200> people<00:16:11.520> we<00:16:11.680> love<00:16:12.000> do<00:16:12.160> not<00:16:12.480> go<00:16:12.680> still.

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They<00:16:13.920> do<00:16:14.040> not<00:16:14.280> become<00:16:14.800> silence.<00:16:16.480> Whatever<00:16:16.880> made<00:16:17.200> them<00:16:17.480> them,<00:16:18.360> their<00:16:18.480> humor,<00:16:19.000> their<00:16:19.200> particular<00:16:19.800> turn<00:16:20.080> of<00:16:20.160> phrase,<00:16:21.160> the<00:16:21.240> exact<00:16:21.720> shape<00:16:22.040> of

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the<00:16:22.240> way<00:16:22.400> they<00:16:22.560> loved<00:16:22.960> you,<00:16:23.720> it<00:16:23.800> doesn't<00:16:24.120> dissolve<00:16:24.800> on<00:16:24.920> the<00:16:25.040> way<00:16:25.400> out.

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It<00:16:26.800> goes<00:16:27.080> on<00:16:27.360> being<00:16:27.720> itself<00:16:28.800> somewhere<00:16:29.200> just<00:16:29.480> past<00:16:29.800> the<00:16:29.960> edge<00:16:30.200> of<00:16:30.320> what<00:16:30.600> we<00:16:30.800> know<00:16:31.080> how<00:16:31.240> to<00:16:31.400> measure.

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Annie<00:16:34.680> didn't<00:16:34.960> come<00:16:35.200> back<00:16:35.640> as<00:16:35.760> an<00:16:35.880> idea<00:16:36.560> or<00:16:36.760> a<00:16:36.800> feeling.

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She<00:16:38.200> came<00:16:38.400> back<00:16:38.680> noticing<00:16:39.160> details.<00:16:40.280> The<00:16:40.320> bedcovers,<00:16:41.680> his<00:16:41.839> old<00:16:42.080> hat,<00:16:42.880> and<00:16:43.040> still<00:16:43.400> unmistakably<00:16:44.160> herself.

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They<00:16:45.520> were<00:16:45.640> not<00:16:45.839> conversations<00:16:46.640> about<00:16:46.960> death.

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They<00:16:48.080> were<00:16:48.200> conversations<00:16:49.000> about<00:16:49.400> life,<00:16:50.240> about<00:16:50.600> marriage,<00:16:51.600> about<00:16:51.960> home.

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Survival<00:16:54.280> isn't<00:16:54.600> about<00:16:54.880> becoming<00:16:55.320> someone<00:16:55.680> else.

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It<00:16:56.600> is<00:16:56.720> simply<00:16:57.120> about<00:16:57.480> remaining<00:16:58.040> who<00:16:58.240> you've<00:16:58.440> always<00:16:58.839> been.

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Leslie<00:17:08.439> spent<00:17:08.839> more<00:17:09.040> than<00:17:09.199> 60<00:17:09.680> years<00:17:10.000> sitting<00:17:10.280> in<00:17:10.400> darkened<00:17:10.880> rooms,<00:17:11.600> quietly<00:17:12.000> giving<00:17:12.319> families<00:17:12.800> one<00:17:13.040> more<00:17:13.199> conversation<00:17:13.959> with<00:17:14.120> the<00:17:14.240> people<00:17:14.600> they<00:17:14.760> loved.

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The<00:17:16.240> story<00:17:16.720> of<00:17:16.839> his<00:17:17.040> remarkable<00:17:17.680> life<00:17:18.160> was<00:17:18.400> told<00:17:18.720> in<00:17:18.839> his<00:17:19.079> biography,<00:17:20.680> Voices<00:17:21.160> in<00:17:21.280> the<00:17:21.400> Dark.

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Today,<00:17:23.680> many<00:17:23.920> of<00:17:24.000> the<00:17:24.120> original<00:17:24.520> seance<00:17:24.920> recordings<00:17:25.439> are<00:17:25.520> preserved<00:17:25.959> by<00:17:26.079> the<00:17:26.199> Leslie<00:17:26.560> Flint<00:17:26.880> Trust,<00:17:27.800> allowing<00:17:28.160> anyone<00:17:28.480> who<00:17:28.600> wishes<00:17:28.960> to<00:17:29.080> hear<00:17:29.280> them<00:17:29.480> to<00:17:29.600> listen<00:17:29.880> for

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themselves.<00:17:31.360> I've<00:17:31.440> included<00:17:31.840> links<00:17:32.080> in<00:17:32.160> the<00:17:32.240> description<00:17:32.760> if<00:17:32.880> you'd<00:17:33.000> like<00:17:33.160> to<00:17:33.280> explore<00:17:33.640> further.

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That<00:17:36.400> tape<00:17:36.800> over<00:17:37.040> Leslie<00:17:37.440> Flint's<00:17:37.800> mouth<00:17:38.320> in<00:17:38.400> 1948<00:17:39.320> was<00:17:39.480> supposed<00:17:39.960> to<00:17:40.080> seal<00:17:40.400> off<00:17:40.760> every<00:17:41.120> possible<00:17:41.680> way<00:17:42.120> for<00:17:42.280> a<00:17:42.320> voice<00:17:42.640> to<00:17:42.760> get<00:17:42.920> through.

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It<00:17:44.200> didn't.<00:17:45.760> And<00:17:45.840> whatever<00:17:46.200> feels<00:17:46.600> sealed<00:17:47.120> shut<00:17:47.520> in<00:17:47.600> your<00:17:47.720> life<00:17:48.000> tonight,<00:17:48.800> however<00:17:49.200> final<00:17:49.560> it<00:17:49.680> feels,<00:17:50.840> may<00:17:50.920> not<00:17:51.120> be<00:17:51.240> the<00:17:51.360> last<00:17:51.760> word,<00:17:51.960> either.

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You're<00:17:52.840> allowed<00:17:53.200> to<00:17:53.360> hope.<00:17:54.880> Because<00:17:55.120> what<00:17:55.280> happened<00:17:55.680> in<00:17:55.800> that<00:17:56.000> quiet<00:17:56.360> room<00:17:57.280> suggests<00:17:57.800> that<00:17:57.960> no<00:17:58.200> goodbye<00:17:59.520> is<00:17:59.640> ever<00:17:59.840> truly<00:18:00.360> the<00:18:00.480> last<00:18:00.880> one.

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Special<00:18:08.720> thanks<00:18:09.040> to<00:18:09.160> the<00:18:09.280> Leslie<00:18:09.720> Flint<00:18:10.080> Trust<00:18:10.520> for<00:18:10.680> kindly<00:18:11.040> granting<00:18:11.480> permission<00:18:11.960> to<00:18:12.160> use<00:18:12.400> the<00:18:12.520> original<00:18:13.360> Annie<00:18:13.600> Nanjee<00:18:14.000> recording<00:18:14.480> featured<00:18:14.880> in<00:18:15.000> this<00:18:15.160> documentary.

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And<00:18:17.160> thank<00:18:17.360> you<00:18:17.440> for<00:18:17.560> watching.<00:18:18.560> See<00:18:18.720> you<00:18:18.840> in<00:18:18.920> the<00:18:19.000> next<00:18:19.280> one.