Induced After-Death Communication with Janice Miner Holden

In this episode, guest Dr. Janice Miner Holden joins co-host Emmy Vadnais to discuss Induced After-Death Communication (IADC), a specialized counseling technique designed to help grieving individuals connect with deceased loved ones. Dr. Holden explains how the method, originally developed by psychologist Allan Botkin, utilizes bilateral stimulation—similar to EMDR—to process the most painful aspects of grief and facilitate a receptive state for spontaneous communication.

Dr. Holden shares compelling personal and clinical accounts of IADC, including an extraordinary evidential experience involving her late cousin and uncle that resulted in verified, unknown details. She details her pioneering comparative research study, which demonstrated that IADC is statistically and clinically far more effective at reducing grief than traditional therapy, often leaving participants with a profound sense of continuing bonds.

The conversation also addresses the mechanics of these transpersonal experiences, the role of client belief systems, and how the mental health profession is adopting this powerful tool. Dr. Holden provides practical advice for individuals seeking trained IADC therapists and explains how the technique helps shift a person's psycho-spiritual state to become open to the enduring presence of those who have passed.

Key takeaways

• Induced After-Death Communication (IADC) is a clinical counseling method that uses bilateral stimulation to help clients process intense grief and open a channel for spontaneous connection.
• A comparative study led by Dr. Holden showed that IADC has a massive clinical effect size, significantly outperforming traditional grief therapy in reducing painful symptoms.
• Unlike mediumship, where a third party acts as a go-between, IADC facilitates a direct, personal, and highly therapeutic encounter between the grieving individual and the deceased.
• The success of IADC relies on helping the client reach a centered, receptive psycho-spiritual state rather than actively grasping for or forcing an experience.
• Research and clinical observations support the 'continuing bonds' model of grief, showing that maintaining a healthy, ongoing spiritual connection with a deceased loved one promotes better long-term healing.

Highlights

• 2:38 — Introduction to Induced After-Death Communication
• 8:53 — The Four Phases of the IADC Method
• 25:14 — Comparing IADC to Professional Mediumship
• 29:35 — Why Some Clients Do Not Experience an ADC
• 48:05 — Research Results: IADC vs. Traditional Therapy
• 1:01:22 — The Concept of Continuing Bonds

00:00:00 Introduction
00:02:38 IADC can lower grief.
00:08:53 IADC method and stories
00:25:14 Mediumship and IADC
00:29:35 Supportive conditions for IADC
00:45:18 Veracity of IADC
00:48:05 More effective than traditional therapy
01:01:22 Continuing bonds with loved ones
01:13:27 IADC and mental health profession
01:19:32 Conclusion

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technique<00:05:48.319> than<00:05:48.639> that<00:05:49.520> and<00:05:50.520> we'll<00:05:50.800> we'll<00:05:51.000> get<00:05:51.160> into<00:05:51.440> all<00:05:51.639> that,<00:05:51.840> I'm<00:05:52.000> sure.<00:05:52.600> But<00:05:52.759> I<00:05:52.880> also<00:05:53.120> want<00:05:53.280> to<00:05:53.400> say<00:05:53.919> that<00:05:54.919> this<00:05:55.039> is<00:05:55.280> not<00:05:55.600> the<00:05:56.080> only

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way<00:05:57.800> out<00:05:58.199> there<00:05:58.520> for<00:05:58.800> people<00:05:59.080> to<00:05:59.319> have<00:05:59.840> this<00:06:00.120> experience.<00:06:00.720> It<00:06:00.880> can<00:06:01.039> be<00:06:02.039> facilitated.<00:06:03.039> There's<00:06:03.319> a<00:06:03.680> a<00:06:04.199> phenomenon<00:06:04.800> called<00:06:05.120> psychomanteum

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where<00:06:06.047> a<00:06:06.455> person<00:06:06.863> is<00:06:07.271> goes<00:06:07.679> into<00:06:08.087> a<00:06:08.495> completely<00:06:08.903> dark<00:06:09.311> environment<00:06:09.720> with<00:06:10.128> just<00:06:10.536> a<00:06:10.944> little<00:06:11.352> candle<00:06:11.760> and<00:06:12.168> a<00:06:12.576> mirror<00:06:12.984> in<00:06:13.392> front<00:06:13.800> of

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them,<00:06:14.680> and<00:06:14.960> often<00:06:15.800> after-death<00:06:16.440> communication<00:06:17.199> occurs<00:06:18.120> in<00:06:18.479> that<00:06:19.120> setting.<00:06:20.120> People<00:06:20.680> have<00:06:21.000> these<00:06:21.440> experiences<00:06:22.440> in

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other<00:06:23.599> counseling<00:06:24.160> sessions<00:06:25.280> um<00:06:26.360> uh<00:06:27.360> with<00:06:27.599> other<00:06:27.880> kinds<00:06:28.120> of<00:06:28.360> techniques.<00:06:29.199> But<00:06:29.639> the<00:06:29.720> reason<00:06:30.080> that<00:06:30.400> I'm<00:06:31.120> particularly

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interested<00:06:32.240> in<00:06:32.520> IADC<00:06:33.280> is<00:06:33.560> because<00:06:34.400> it's<00:06:34.720> the<00:06:34.919> only<00:06:35.919> approach<00:06:36.520> that<00:06:36.759> so<00:06:37.160> far<00:06:37.599> has<00:06:37.840> been<00:06:38.560> studied<00:06:39.560> with<00:06:40.080> a

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true<00:06:41.639> experimental<00:06:43.080> comparison<00:06:44.080> with<00:06:44.520> traditional<00:06:45.160> grief<00:06:45.680> counseling<00:06:46.680> to<00:06:47.039> show<00:06:48.039> how<00:06:48.840> effective

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it<00:06:49.560> is<00:06:50.319> compared<00:06:50.720> to<00:06:50.960> traditional<00:06:51.520> grief<00:06:51.919> counseling<00:06:52.520> in<00:06:52.720> reducing<00:06:53.240> grief<00:06:53.759> symptoms.<00:06:54.759> So<00:06:55.240> for<00:06:56.240> for<00:06:56.520> licensed<00:06:57.240> professionals,<00:06:58.199> mental

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health<00:06:58.879> professionals<00:06:59.879> who<00:07:00.199> are<00:07:00.759> interested<00:07:02.160> in<00:07:03.160> doing<00:07:03.599> something<00:07:04.039> like<00:07:04.280> this,<00:07:04.639> this<00:07:04.759> is<00:07:05.000> a<00:07:05.400> now<00:07:06.240> uh<00:07:07.240> a

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an<00:07:08.240> approach<00:07:08.639> that<00:07:08.800> has<00:07:09.000> some<00:07:09.319> empirical<00:07:10.080> research<00:07:10.759> behind<00:07:11.120> it.<00:07:12.120> And<00:07:12.800> um<00:07:13.080> so<00:07:13.319> it's<00:07:13.520> not<00:07:13.759> the<00:07:13.919> only<00:07:14.280> way,<00:07:14.520> but<00:07:14.680> it's<00:07:14.879> the<00:07:15.039> only<00:07:15.319> one<00:07:15.759> I<00:07:15.879> know<00:07:16.160> that

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has<00:07:16.639> empirical<00:07:17.280> research<00:07:17.840> behind<00:07:18.160> it.<00:07:19.120> Right.<00:07:19.560> I<00:07:19.639> would<00:07:19.840> love<00:07:20.039> to<00:07:20.280> explore<00:07:20.759> your<00:07:21.080> research<00:07:21.520> study<00:07:21.879> that<00:07:22.000> you<00:07:22.160> led<00:07:22.919> a<00:07:23.039> little<00:07:23.240> more<00:07:23.560> deeply<00:07:23.840> in<00:07:24.000> just<00:07:24.160> a<00:07:24.440> moment

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where<00:07:25.120> you<00:07:25.319> did<00:07:25.639> find<00:07:26.360> that<00:07:26.599> induced<00:07:27.520> after-death<00:07:28.520> communication<00:07:29.520> reduced<00:07:29.960> the<00:07:30.120> grief<00:07:30.479> more<00:07:31.080> significantly<00:07:32.080> than<00:07:32.400> traditional<00:07:33.400> grief

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counseling.<00:07:35.120> That's<00:07:35.440> right.<00:07:36.080> Does<00:07:36.319> one<00:07:36.560> need<00:07:36.759> to<00:07:36.879> be<00:07:37.120> grieving<00:07:37.800> to<00:07:38.080> participate<00:07:38.800> in<00:07:39.080> an<00:07:39.280> induced<00:07:39.879> after-death<00:07:40.479> communication<00:07:41.479> process?<00:07:42.479> No.

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Um<00:07:43.639> it<00:07:43.879> it<00:07:43.960> would<00:07:44.159> be<00:07:44.360> fine<00:07:44.720> if<00:07:44.919> someone<00:07:45.240> is<00:07:45.680> just<00:07:46.319> um<00:07:47.000> just<00:07:47.319> wanting<00:07:48.080> to<00:07:48.479> connect<00:07:49.000> with<00:07:49.199> their<00:07:49.400> deceased<00:07:49.960> loved<00:07:50.319> one<00:07:51.360> to

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um<00:07:52.800> to<00:07:53.319> participate<00:07:54.039> in<00:07:54.479> this.<00:07:55.479> But<00:07:55.720> so<00:07:56.360> far,<00:07:57.360> because<00:07:58.039> the<00:07:58.639> the<00:07:58.840> need<00:08:00.280> usually<00:08:01.280> people

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are<00:08:01.800> motivated<00:08:02.800> to<00:08:03.280> participate<00:08:03.879> in<00:08:04.360> counseling<00:08:05.360> uh<00:08:05.520> to<00:08:05.800> reduce<00:08:07.000> pain<00:08:08.000> more<00:08:08.360> than<00:08:08.639> to<00:08:09.560> just

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facilitate<00:08:11.240> personal<00:08:11.759> growth<00:08:12.240> or<00:08:12.560> or<00:08:12.759> more<00:08:13.120> pleasure,<00:08:14.080> so<00:08:14.639> we<00:08:14.919> focused<00:08:15.479> on<00:08:16.039> on<00:08:16.720> the<00:08:17.080> reducing<00:08:17.680> grief<00:08:18.120> pain<00:08:19.000> uh

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but<00:08:19.520> it<00:08:19.720> really<00:08:20.560> anybody<00:08:21.039> can<00:08:21.240> do<00:08:21.479> it.<00:08:21.800> And<00:08:22.120> and<00:08:22.639> the<00:08:23.280> evidence<00:08:23.720> of<00:08:23.919> that<00:08:24.199> was<00:08:24.400> in<00:08:24.680> my<00:08:24.879> own<00:08:25.599> experience<00:08:26.560> working<00:08:27.240> uh

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practicing<00:08:27.919> with<00:08:28.120> my<00:08:28.319> students<00:08:28.840> here<00:08:29.159> because<00:08:30.000> we<00:08:30.199> were<00:08:30.960> um<00:08:31.599> we<00:08:31.919> obviously<00:08:32.360> weren't<00:08:32.719> all<00:08:33.039> grieving<00:08:33.919> lots<00:08:34.200> of<00:08:34.599> losses<00:08:35.039> of<00:08:35.279> dead<00:08:35.640> people

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but<00:08:36.599> we<00:08:36.760> did<00:08:37.120> have<00:08:37.800> a<00:08:38.000> lot<00:08:38.159> of<00:08:38.360> losses<00:08:38.800> in<00:08:38.959> our<00:08:39.360> past<00:08:40.360> and<00:08:40.680> we<00:08:40.919> had<00:08:41.640> um<00:08:42.839> many<00:08:43.839> um<00:08:44.399> really

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meaningful<00:08:46.000> experiences<00:08:47.000> of<00:08:47.560> uh<00:08:48.200> communication<00:08:49.200> with<00:08:49.480> deceased<00:08:50.000> loved<00:08:50.279> ones<00:08:51.000> uh<00:08:51.160> that<00:08:51.279> we<00:08:51.399> were<00:08:51.600> not<00:08:51.920> actively<00:08:53.120> grieving.

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Can<00:08:54.279> you<00:08:54.519> share<00:08:54.920> an<00:08:55.480> experience<00:08:56.480> that<00:08:56.640> either<00:08:56.920> you<00:08:57.240> had,<00:08:57.600> one<00:08:57.760> of<00:08:57.880> your<00:08:58.079> students,<00:08:58.839> or<00:08:59.079> if<00:08:59.160> you<00:08:59.279> had<00:08:59.519> have<00:08:59.880> permission<00:09:00.240> to<00:09:00.399> share<00:09:00.959> one<00:09:01.079> of<00:09:01.200> your<00:09:01.399> clients<00:09:02.399> with

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IADC?<00:09:04.440> Sure.<00:09:05.440> Well,<00:09:05.880> um<00:09:06.160> I'll<00:09:06.360> I'll<00:09:06.519> tell<00:09:06.720> you<00:09:06.880> about<00:09:07.120> one<00:09:07.320> of<00:09:07.560> my<00:09:08.240> experiences.<00:09:09.240> This<00:09:09.399> was<00:09:09.800> well<00:09:10.079> into<00:09:10.440> our<00:09:10.920> practice<00:09:11.360> time<00:09:11.839> together

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and<00:09:13.040> we<00:09:13.200> had<00:09:13.399> all<00:09:13.720> been<00:09:14.160> played<00:09:14.480> the<00:09:14.600> role<00:09:14.839> of<00:09:15.079> counselor<00:09:15.640> and<00:09:15.959> client<00:09:16.519> and<00:09:17.200> observer.<00:09:18.200> And<00:09:18.800> uh<00:09:19.079> so<00:09:20.079> I<00:09:20.320> had<00:09:20.800> I

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was<00:09:21.079> getting<00:09:21.399> kind<00:09:21.560> of<00:09:21.680> low<00:09:21.920> on<00:09:22.040> my<00:09:22.240> list<00:09:22.440> of<00:09:22.640> dead<00:09:22.959> people<00:09:23.320> that<00:09:23.480> I<00:09:23.600> wanted<00:09:23.880> to<00:09:25.040> contact,<00:09:26.040> but<00:09:26.240> I<00:09:26.440> thought<00:09:26.760> of<00:09:27.000> my<00:09:27.320> cousin<00:09:27.959> David<00:09:28.959> who

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um<00:09:30.760> died<00:09:31.120> shortly<00:09:31.680> after<00:09:32.040> returning<00:09:32.519> from<00:09:32.720> the<00:09:32.880> Vietnam<00:09:33.760> War.<00:09:34.760> And<00:09:35.560> uh<00:09:36.200> the<00:09:36.600> the<00:09:37.360> manner<00:09:37.640> of<00:09:37.839> his

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death<00:09:38.880> was<00:09:39.600> uh<00:09:39.800> my<00:09:40.000> family<00:09:40.360> always<00:09:40.640> referred<00:09:41.079> to<00:09:41.240> it<00:09:41.399> as<00:09:41.560> an<00:09:41.920> accident,<00:09:42.839> but<00:09:43.000> I<00:09:43.160> had<00:09:43.320> always<00:09:43.560> wondered<00:09:43.959> if<00:09:44.120> he<00:09:44.360> maybe<00:09:44.720> had<00:09:44.880> killed<00:09:45.160> himself<00:09:46.279> because

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as<00:09:47.519> people<00:09:48.000> of<00:09:48.279> my<00:09:48.560> vintage<00:09:49.279> know<00:09:50.279> uh<00:09:50.560> soldiers<00:09:51.079> returning<00:09:51.560> from<00:09:51.800> Vietnam<00:09:52.279> were<00:09:52.480> not<00:09:52.720> treated<00:09:53.200> well.<00:09:53.760> There<00:09:53.920> was<00:09:54.240> a<00:09:54.399> lot<00:09:54.560> of<00:09:55.160> controversy<00:09:56.079> and

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um<00:09:57.200> even<00:09:57.680> animosity<00:09:58.680> toward<00:09:59.160> them,<00:09:59.560> even<00:09:59.760> though<00:09:59.959> they<00:10:00.040> were<00:10:00.240> drafted,<00:10:00.839> they<00:10:00.920> were<00:10:01.120> just<00:10:01.279> doing<00:10:01.600> what<00:10:01.760> they<00:10:01.959> had<00:10:02.079> to<00:10:02.320> do.<00:10:03.320> And<00:10:03.720> uh<00:10:03.800> so<00:10:04.000> it<00:10:04.120> was<00:10:04.320> really<00:10:04.640> hard<00:10:04.920> for

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them<00:10:05.720> in<00:10:05.920> addition<00:10:06.279> to<00:10:06.600> having<00:10:06.920> been<00:10:07.160> traumatized<00:10:07.959> by<00:10:08.120> the<00:10:08.240> war<00:10:08.560> itself.<00:10:09.519> And<00:10:09.680> David<00:10:10.079> was<00:10:10.399> like<00:10:10.920> my<00:10:11.160> favorite<00:10:11.640> cousin.<00:10:12.040> He<00:10:12.200> was<00:10:12.480> just<00:10:13.360> the

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the<00:10:14.160> kindest,<00:10:15.120> sweetest,<00:10:16.120> most<00:10:16.480> caring,<00:10:17.000> most<00:10:17.320> contactable<00:10:18.200> kind<00:10:18.360> of<00:10:18.680> person.<00:10:19.279> And<00:10:20.040> um<00:10:20.240> and<00:10:20.360> I<00:10:20.519> just<00:10:20.680> thought<00:10:20.959> I<00:10:21.079> would<00:10:21.279> really<00:10:21.519> like<00:10:21.680> to<00:10:21.839> reconnect

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with<00:10:22.600> him.<00:10:23.040> So<00:10:23.720> the<00:10:24.640> technique<00:10:25.640> involves<00:10:26.760> um<00:10:27.760> uh<00:10:28.680> well<00:10:29.320> for<00:10:29.560> people<00:10:29.880> who<00:10:30.040> are<00:10:30.800> grieving

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uh<00:10:32.120> it<00:10:32.880> begins<00:10:33.519> with<00:10:34.040> uh<00:10:34.240> there<00:10:35.040> kind<00:10:35.160> of<00:10:35.279> like<00:10:35.480> four<00:10:35.880> phases<00:10:36.399> to<00:10:36.639> the<00:10:36.920> to<00:10:37.120> the<00:10:37.480> counseling<00:10:38.120> process.<00:10:38.880> The<00:10:39.040> first<00:10:39.320> is<00:10:39.480> for<00:10:39.680> the<00:10:39.839> counselor

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and<00:10:40.480> client<00:10:40.839> to<00:10:41.040> just<00:10:41.240> get<00:10:41.399> to<00:10:41.560> know<00:10:41.800> each<00:10:41.959> other<00:10:42.200> and<00:10:42.440> especially<00:10:43.320> for<00:10:43.560> the<00:10:43.720> counselor<00:10:44.160> to<00:10:44.320> learn<00:10:44.600> about<00:10:44.839> the<00:10:45.040> client's<00:10:45.680> relationship<00:10:46.519> with<00:10:46.720> this<00:10:46.959> deceased<00:10:47.480> loved

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one,<00:10:48.079> what<00:10:48.279> this<00:10:48.480> person<00:10:49.160> meant<00:10:49.480> to<00:10:49.720> them<00:10:49.959> and<00:10:50.120> so<00:10:50.399> forth.<00:10:51.360> And<00:10:51.839> then<00:10:52.839> then<00:10:53.600> there's<00:10:53.880> a<00:10:54.240> we<00:10:54.399> have<00:10:54.519> a<00:10:54.720> little<00:10:55.000> saying<00:10:56.000> to

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go<00:10:56.399> to<00:10:56.639> the<00:10:56.800> worst<00:10:57.600> first.<00:10:58.600> So<00:10:58.959> we<00:10:59.360> find<00:10:59.600> out<00:10:59.880> from<00:11:00.079> the<00:11:00.360> client<00:11:01.040> what<00:11:01.399> the<00:11:01.880> the<00:11:02.639> absolute<00:11:03.360> single<00:11:04.160> worst<00:11:05.160> aspect

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of<00:11:05.760> their<00:11:06.079> grief<00:11:07.519> is<00:11:08.800> and<00:11:09.800> we<00:11:10.040> use<00:11:10.959> uh<00:11:11.959> uh<00:11:12.240> bilateral<00:11:13.839> stimulation

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to<00:11:15.560> process<00:11:16.480> that<00:11:16.920> that<00:11:17.320> most<00:11:17.680> painful<00:11:18.279> aspect<00:11:18.600> of<00:11:18.800> grief.<00:11:19.240> Now<00:11:19.440> bilateral<00:11:20.040> stimulation<00:11:20.800> means<00:11:21.680> there's<00:11:22.480> repetitive<00:11:23.519> rhythmic

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right<00:11:24.920> left<00:11:25.320> stimulation<00:11:26.279> of<00:11:26.399> the<00:11:26.560> nervous<00:11:27.079> system<00:11:27.560> in<00:11:27.800> some<00:11:28.160> way.<00:11:28.959> So<00:11:29.320> so<00:11:29.880> uh<00:11:30.120> the<00:11:30.519> original<00:11:31.079> way<00:11:31.279> that<00:11:31.480> this<00:11:31.680> came<00:11:31.920> into<00:11:32.399> the<00:11:32.480> field<00:11:32.760> of

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mental<00:11:33.240> health<00:11:33.560> was<00:11:33.800> through<00:11:34.519> eye<00:11:34.800> movement<00:11:35.360> desensitization<00:11:36.360> and<00:11:37.000> reprocessing,<00:11:38.000> where<00:11:38.200> the<00:11:38.440> therapist<00:11:39.240> literally<00:11:39.760> does<00:11:40.160> this<00:11:40.360> in<00:11:40.519> front<00:11:40.720> of<00:11:40.880> the<00:11:41.079> client.

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The<00:11:41.680> client<00:11:42.079> watches<00:11:43.000> the<00:11:43.200> fingers<00:11:44.200> and<00:11:44.399> what<00:11:44.519> it's<00:11:44.720> doing<00:11:45.040> is<00:11:45.600> right<00:11:46.200> left,<00:11:46.800> right<00:11:47.279> left.<00:11:47.680> It's<00:11:48.639> stimulating<00:11:49.360> both<00:11:49.680> sides

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think<00:11:59.399> about<00:12:00.160> what<00:12:00.800> that<00:12:01.200> most<00:12:01.839> painful<00:12:02.440> thing<00:12:02.880> is<00:12:03.720> and<00:12:04.000> then<00:12:04.320> whatever<00:12:05.320> process<00:12:06.000> goes<00:12:06.279> on<00:12:06.720> in<00:12:06.959> their

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mental,<00:12:08.600> you<00:12:08.720> know,<00:12:09.000> emotional<00:12:09.880> thought,<00:12:10.880> uh<00:12:11.279> physical<00:12:12.959> process<00:12:13.959> following<00:12:14.639> that<00:12:15.320> process,<00:12:16.320> uh

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process,<00:12:44.000> talk<00:12:44.279> about<00:12:44.560> that<00:12:44.720> a<00:12:44.800> little<00:12:45.000> bit<00:12:45.320> with<00:12:45.519> the<00:12:45.880> therapist,<00:12:46.839> and<00:12:47.000> then<00:12:47.160> wherever<00:12:47.839> they<00:12:48.320> left<00:12:48.720> off<00:12:49.160> they<00:12:49.320> start<00:12:49.839> there<00:12:50.519> and<00:12:50.680> then<00:12:50.839> do<00:12:51.120> another<00:12:51.560> set.

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which<00:13:27.173> is<00:13:27.625> where<00:13:28.078> we<00:13:28.531> then<00:13:28.983> say,<00:13:29.436> so<00:13:29.888> uh<00:13:30.341> leaving<00:13:30.794> off,<00:13:31.246> you<00:13:31.699> know,<00:13:32.152> where<00:13:32.604> wherever<00:13:33.057> you<00:13:33.509> were,<00:13:33.962> do<00:13:34.415> the<00:13:34.867> next<00:13:35.320> set.

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That's<00:14:10.880> right.<00:14:11.399> Um<00:14:11.800> this<00:14:12.199> yeah,<00:14:12.399> one<00:14:12.560> of<00:14:12.680> the<00:14:12.839> more<00:14:13.079> recent<00:14:13.519> developments<00:14:14.120> is<00:14:14.399> doing<00:14:14.759> this<00:14:15.320> uh<00:14:15.440> you<00:14:15.560> know<00:14:15.920> originally<00:14:16.480> it<00:14:16.600> was<00:14:16.759> always<00:14:17.160> in<00:14:17.480> person,<00:14:18.240> but<00:14:18.399> we<00:14:18.480> can<00:14:18.639> do

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if<00:21:39.120> it<00:21:39.720> might<00:21:40.720> activate<00:21:41.200> her<00:21:41.520> grief,<00:21:42.159> if<00:21:42.320> it<00:21:42.559> might<00:21:42.960> offend<00:21:43.400> her<00:21:43.880> religious,<00:21:44.880> you<00:21:45.000> know,<00:21:45.400> I,<00:21:45.640> I<00:21:45.840> just,<00:21:46.320> I<00:21:46.480> wasn't.<00:21:47.360> While

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I'm<00:21:47.879> talking,<00:21:48.199> I<00:21:48.519> said<00:21:48.839> to<00:21:49.159> Jenny,<00:21:49.479> "I<00:21:49.799> know,<00:21:50.119> I<00:21:50.439> think<00:21:50.759> what<00:21:51.079> I'll<00:21:51.399> do<00:21:51.720> is<00:21:52.040> write<00:21:52.360> him<00:21:52.680> a<00:21:53.000> letter—write<00:21:53.320> her<00:21:53.640> a<00:21:53.960> letter,<00:21:54.280> I<00:21:54.600> beg<00:21:54.920> your<00:21:55.240> pardon—and,<00:21:55.560> um,<00:21:55.880> and

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start<00:21:56.620> by<00:21:56.880> saying,<00:21:57.140> 'If<00:21:57.400> anything<00:21:57.660> in<00:21:57.920> this<00:21:58.180> letter<00:21:58.440> bothers<00:21:58.700> you,<00:21:58.960> you<00:21:59.220> know,<00:21:59.480> you<00:21:59.740> can<00:22:00.000> just<00:22:00.260> rip<00:22:00.519> it<00:22:00.779> up<00:22:01.039> and<00:22:01.299> forget<00:22:01.559> that<00:22:01.819> I<00:22:02.079> even<00:22:02.339> sent<00:22:02.599> it<00:22:02.859> to<00:22:03.119> you.'"<00:22:03.379> Um,<00:22:03.639> and<00:22:03.899> so<00:22:04.159> Jenny

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in<00:22:04.799> her<00:22:05.080> wisdom,<00:22:05.520> said,<00:22:05.880> "Well,<00:22:06.480> why<00:22:06.640> don't<00:22:06.760> we<00:22:06.919> check<00:22:07.159> with<00:22:07.360> Uncle<00:22:07.720> Ray?"<00:22:08.400> So<00:22:08.640> she<00:22:08.880> does<00:22:09.320> this.<00:22:10.080> I<00:22:10.200> close<00:22:10.600> my<00:22:10.799> eyes,<00:22:11.200> and<00:22:11.320> there's<00:22:11.600> Ray.<00:22:12.000> He's<00:22:12.200> still<00:22:12.480> holding<00:22:13.000> the

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hourglass<00:22:14.159> in<00:22:14.320> this<00:22:14.559> hand,<00:22:14.760> but<00:22:14.880> in<00:22:15.080> this<00:22:15.320> hand,<00:22:15.559> he's<00:22:15.799> holding<00:22:16.159> a<00:22:16.360> telephone<00:22:18.200> receiver.<00:22:19.200> So<00:22:20.200> I<00:22:20.600> open<00:22:20.960> my<00:22:21.159> eyes,<00:22:21.400> and<00:22:21.640> pardon

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my<00:22:22.120> French,<00:22:22.640> I<00:22:22.720> said,<00:22:23.400> "You<00:22:23.520> know,<00:22:23.760> she...<00:22:24.080> he<00:22:24.240> wants<00:22:24.480> me<00:22:24.640> to<00:22:24.880> call<00:22:25.159> her."<00:22:25.960> Well,<00:22:26.960> I<00:22:27.039> won't<00:22:27.320> go<00:22:27.440> into<00:22:27.679> the<00:22:27.799> whole<00:22:27.960> story,<00:22:28.520> except<00:22:28.720> to<00:22:28.840> say<00:22:29.080> that<00:22:29.360> many<00:22:29.799> synchronicities<00:22:30.799> occurred

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such<00:22:31.679> that<00:22:31.919> I<00:22:32.039> did<00:22:32.320> end<00:22:32.520> up<00:22:32.960> finally<00:22:33.400> calling<00:22:33.840> her,<00:22:34.600> telling<00:22:35.000> her<00:22:35.240> about<00:22:35.600> this.<00:22:35.880> And<00:22:36.200> when<00:22:36.360> I<00:22:36.559> got<00:22:36.720> to<00:22:36.880> the<00:22:37.000> end<00:22:37.200> of<00:22:37.320> the<00:22:37.480> story<00:22:37.840> and<00:22:38.000> said,<00:22:38.279> "You<00:22:38.440> know,<00:22:38.720> I<00:22:38.919> have<00:22:39.120> no<00:22:39.360> idea<00:22:39.799> what

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this<00:22:40.200> hourglass<00:22:40.960> thing<00:22:41.159> means,"<00:22:41.760> she<00:22:41.919> said,<00:22:42.240> "Oh,<00:22:42.559> I<00:22:42.640> know<00:22:42.960> exactly<00:22:43.400> what<00:22:43.520> it<00:22:43.679> means."<00:22:44.080> And<00:22:44.240> I<00:22:44.320> said,<00:22:44.559> "You<00:22:44.679> do?"<00:22:44.880> She<00:22:45.000> said,<00:22:45.279> "Yeah."<00:22:45.640> She<00:22:45.760> said,<00:22:46.000> "I'm<00:22:46.159> looking<00:22:46.440> at<00:22:46.640> them<00:22:46.960> right<00:22:47.240> now,"<00:22:48.240> and

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I<00:22:48.880> like<00:22:49.240> them."<00:22:49.679> And<00:22:49.799> she<00:22:49.960> said,<00:22:50.320> "Yeah."<00:22:50.600> She<00:22:50.760> said,<00:22:51.279> "When<00:22:51.480> I<00:22:51.600> was<00:22:52.400> little,<00:22:53.400> I,<00:22:54.120> um,<00:22:55.120> used<00:22:55.360> to<00:22:55.520> go<00:22:55.720> visit<00:22:56.000> my<00:22:56.520> grandmother,<00:22:57.520> and

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uh,<00:22:58.600> and<00:22:58.760> this<00:22:58.880> was<00:22:59.120> before<00:22:59.440> the<00:22:59.600> days<00:22:59.880> of<00:23:00.200> even<00:23:00.640> television.<00:23:01.279> It<00:23:01.440> was<00:23:01.760> boring,<00:23:02.240> you<00:23:02.400> know,<00:23:03.000> and,<00:23:03.840> um,<00:23:04.320> and<00:23:04.600> but<00:23:04.760> my<00:23:04.960> grandmother<00:23:05.440> had<00:23:05.640> these<00:23:05.880> two<00:23:06.279> cut

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crystal<00:23:07.200> vases<00:23:07.840> that<00:23:07.960> she<00:23:08.159> kept<00:23:08.400> on<00:23:08.559> an<00:23:08.760> end<00:23:09.120> table<00:23:09.720> on<00:23:09.880> a<00:23:10.080> glass<00:23:10.480> shelf.<00:23:11.159> So<00:23:11.360> I'd<00:23:11.559> lie<00:23:11.760> on<00:23:11.919> the<00:23:12.039> floor,<00:23:12.640> scoot<00:23:13.120> up<00:23:13.279> under<00:23:13.640> this<00:23:13.919> table,<00:23:14.679> and

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beautiful."<00:23:24.440> So<00:23:24.640> she<00:23:24.799> said,<00:23:25.039> "When<00:23:25.200> my<00:23:25.360> grandmother<00:23:25.919> died,<00:23:26.400> I<00:23:26.520> wanted<00:23:26.880> only<00:23:27.320> one<00:23:27.559> thing<00:23:27.799> from<00:23:28.080> her<00:23:28.840> estate,<00:23:29.360> and<00:23:29.520> that<00:23:29.679> was<00:23:29.880> these<00:23:30.080> two<00:23:30.320> vases,<00:23:30.960> which<00:23:31.159> I<00:23:31.320> got,"<00:23:31.679> and

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they're<00:23:32.039> sitting<00:23:32.640> on<00:23:32.799> my<00:23:33.000> dining<00:23:33.279> room<00:23:33.480> table.<00:23:33.840> I'm<00:23:33.960> looking<00:23:34.240> at<00:23:34.440> them<00:23:34.720> right<00:23:34.960> now."<00:23:35.679> And<00:23:35.799> she<00:23:35.960> said,<00:23:36.240> "What<00:23:36.480> Ray<00:23:36.840> knew<00:23:37.640> was,<00:23:38.640> if<00:23:38.799> we,<00:23:39.039> like,<00:23:39.279> woke<00:23:39.520> up<00:23:39.679> in<00:23:39.760> the<00:23:39.880> middle

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precious<00:23:48.880> thing<00:23:49.159> I<00:23:49.320> own."<00:23:50.279> And<00:23:50.360> she<00:23:50.480> said,<00:23:50.799> "The<00:23:50.919> thing<00:23:51.200> is,<00:23:51.640> there<00:23:51.799> are<00:23:52.039> two<00:23:52.520> different<00:23:53.000> shapes,<00:23:54.000> but<00:23:54.159> they're<00:23:54.400> both<00:23:54.840> clear<00:23:55.480> glass,<00:23:56.480> wide

00:23:56.760 --> 00:24:05.720
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00:24:14.600 --> 00:24:23.200
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00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:48.360
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00:25:05.919 --> 00:25:14.600
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00:25:14.600 --> 00:25:23.320
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the<00:25:40.520> behalf<00:25:40.840> of<00:25:41.039> other<00:25:41.559> people?"<00:25:42.559> "It's<00:25:42.679> a<00:25:42.880> great<00:25:43.279> question,<00:25:43.840> because<00:25:44.559> they're<00:25:44.919> similar<00:25:45.600> in<00:25:45.880> that<00:25:46.120> there<00:25:46.279> is<00:25:46.600> communication<00:25:47.440> between<00:25:47.760> a<00:25:47.880> living<00:25:48.320> person<00:25:48.720> and

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a<00:25:49.039> deceased<00:25:49.679> person.<00:25:50.640> The<00:25:50.880> difference<00:25:51.320> is<00:25:51.640> that<00:25:52.080> with<00:25:52.320> a<00:25:52.440> medium,<00:25:53.120> the<00:25:53.240> medium<00:25:53.720> literally<00:25:54.279> is<00:25:54.480> a,<00:25:54.840> the<00:25:54.960> medium<00:25:55.360> of<00:25:55.600> communication<00:25:56.520> between<00:25:56.960> the

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deceased<00:25:57.799> person<00:25:58.720> and<00:25:59.080> the<00:25:59.240> living<00:25:59.679> person<00:26:00.039> that<00:26:00.200> they<00:26:00.399> had<00:26:00.559> the<00:26:00.840> relationship<00:26:01.679> with.<00:26:02.320> The<00:26:02.440> medium<00:26:03.039> usually<00:26:03.559> doesn't<00:26:03.960> know<00:26:04.559> either<00:26:04.840> the<00:26:05.000> deceased<00:26:05.600> person

00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:14.440
or<00:26:06.279> the,<00:26:06.559> the<00:26:06.679> living<00:26:07.080> person<00:26:07.399> that<00:26:07.559> they<00:26:07.679> had<00:26:07.840> the<00:26:08.080> relationship<00:26:08.880> with.<00:26:09.880> And,<00:26:10.520> uh,<00:26:10.799> and,<00:26:11.720> me,<00:26:12.360> actually,<00:26:12.919> people<00:26:13.200> who<00:26:13.320> are<00:26:13.480> grieving<00:26:14.159> and

00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:23.039
go<00:26:14.640> to<00:26:14.799> mediums<00:26:15.440> do<00:26:15.799> find<00:26:16.760> some<00:26:17.320> relief.<00:26:17.840> There's<00:26:18.320> actually<00:26:18.559> some<00:26:18.799> research<00:26:19.320> about<00:26:19.720> that,<00:26:20.080> that<00:26:20.799> going<00:26:21.080> to<00:26:21.279> a<00:26:21.440> medium<00:26:21.919> can<00:26:22.080> be<00:26:22.320> helpful<00:26:22.840> with

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grief<00:26:23.520> as<00:26:23.720> well,<00:26:24.720> um,<00:26:25.080> because<00:26:26.039> mediums<00:26:27.039> often,<00:26:27.720> if<00:26:27.919> they're,<00:26:29.120> um,<00:26:30.120> what,<00:26:30.320> what<00:26:30.440> are<00:26:30.640> called<00:26:30.960> evidential<00:26:31.600> mediums,

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they<00:26:32.799> ask<00:26:33.120> for<00:26:33.520> evidence<00:26:34.520> that<00:26:34.679> will<00:26:35.000> really<00:26:35.399> convince<00:26:35.960> the<00:26:36.279> living<00:26:36.679> person<00:26:37.240> that<00:26:37.520> that<00:26:37.720> were<00:26:38.039> really<00:26:38.840> communicating<00:26:39.679> with<00:26:39.880> the<00:26:40.120> deceased<00:26:40.799> person.

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And<00:26:42.000> there's<00:26:42.240> some<00:26:42.679> amazing<00:26:43.240> stories.<00:26:43.919> That's<00:26:44.080> a<00:26:44.279> whole<00:26:44.480> another,<00:26:45.120> you<00:26:45.240> know,<00:26:45.640> amazing<00:26:46.360> area,<00:26:47.880> um,<00:26:48.880> after-death<00:26:49.600> communication,<00:26:50.520> however,

00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:59.240
is<00:26:51.327> the<00:26:51.773> direct<00:26:52.220> experience<00:26:52.666> of<00:26:53.113> communication<00:26:53.560> between<00:26:54.006> the<00:26:54.453> two<00:26:54.900> people<00:26:55.346> in<00:26:55.793> the<00:26:56.239> relationship,<00:26:56.686> the<00:26:57.133> living<00:26:57.579> person<00:26:58.026> and<00:26:58.472> the<00:26:58.919> dis—what

00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:07.760
I<00:26:59.520> really<00:26:59.840> prefer<00:27:00.120> to<00:27:00.320> call<00:27:00.520> the<00:27:00.679> disembodied<00:27:02.000> person,<00:27:03.000> um.<00:27:03.440> And<00:27:04.399> so<00:27:05.399> what<00:27:05.960> has<00:27:06.279> not<00:27:06.559> been<00:27:06.840> done<00:27:07.240> yet

00:27:07.760 --> 00:27:16.080
to<00:27:08.000> my<00:27:08.200> knowledge,<00:27:09.120> is,<00:27:10.120> uh,<00:27:11.120> research<00:27:11.840> comparing<00:27:12.520> the<00:27:12.760> relative<00:27:13.840> effectiveness<00:27:14.840> on<00:27:15.240> grief<00:27:15.880> of

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going<00:27:16.320> to<00:27:16.520> a<00:27:16.679> medium<00:27:17.240> versus<00:27:17.760> having<00:27:18.399> a<00:27:18.600> direct<00:27:19.320> experience.<00:27:20.320> And<00:27:20.480> that's...<00:27:20.840> if<00:27:21.000> I<00:27:21.200> had,<00:27:21.919> I<00:27:22.000> think<00:27:22.240> I'm<00:27:22.360> going<00:27:22.440> to<00:27:22.559> need<00:27:22.799> another<00:27:23.840> lifetime<00:27:24.840> to

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be<00:27:25.600> able<00:27:25.840> to<00:27:26.000> do<00:27:26.200> that<00:27:26.440> research<00:27:26.880> or<00:27:27.399> find<00:27:27.799> a<00:27:28.159> student<00:27:28.480> somewhere<00:27:28.799> who<00:27:28.960> will<00:27:29.159> do<00:27:29.360> it,<00:27:30.200> um,<00:27:30.919> because<00:27:31.240> it's<00:27:31.440> a...<00:27:31.720> it<00:27:31.799> would<00:27:32.000> be<00:27:32.399> a<00:27:33.000> complicated<00:27:34.240> study.

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But,<00:27:35.880> but,<00:27:36.240> but<00:27:36.440> very<00:27:36.960> worthwhile,<00:27:37.960> and<00:27:38.320> we<00:27:38.520> might<00:27:38.840> find<00:27:39.240> something<00:27:39.760> like<00:27:40.760> that,<00:27:41.440> um,<00:27:41.960> both<00:27:42.279> are<00:27:42.840> helpful,<00:27:43.840> that

00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:53.000
for<00:27:44.600> certain<00:27:45.039> kinds<00:27:45.320> of<00:27:45.600> people,<00:27:46.039> one<00:27:46.399> is<00:27:46.600> more<00:27:46.919> helpful<00:27:47.399> than<00:27:47.600> the<00:27:47.799> other,<00:27:48.799> or<00:27:49.480> that<00:27:50.200> maybe,<00:27:51.559> um,<00:27:52.559> doing

00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:01.240
one<00:27:53.360> before<00:27:53.760> the<00:27:53.960> other<00:27:54.919> is<00:27:55.159> more<00:27:55.559> effective.<00:27:56.200> I<00:27:56.279> mean,<00:27:56.480> there,<00:27:56.720> there<00:27:56.799> are<00:27:56.919> a<00:27:57.000> lot<00:27:57.159> of<00:27:57.360> factors<00:27:57.720> that<00:27:57.880> could<00:27:58.360> involved<00:27:58.840> there.<00:27:59.840> Mhm,<00:28:00.840> right,<00:28:01.039> because

00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:09.679
a<00:28:01.440> person<00:28:01.960> can<00:28:02.279> be<00:28:03.200> the<00:28:03.399> channel<00:28:04.120> themselves;<00:28:04.600> they<00:28:04.720> can<00:28:05.200> learn<00:28:05.519> to<00:28:06.159> channel.<00:28:07.159> And<00:28:07.519> with<00:28:07.679> the<00:28:07.919> induced<00:28:08.399> after-death<00:28:08.919> communication,<00:28:09.519> it

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sounds<00:28:10.120> like<00:28:10.559> the<00:28:10.840> process<00:28:11.399> is<00:28:12.080> to<00:28:12.799> reduce<00:28:13.799> the<00:28:14.039> grief<00:28:14.760> enough<00:28:15.640> so<00:28:15.840> that<00:28:15.960> a<00:28:16.159> person<00:28:16.559> can<00:28:16.880> have<00:28:17.279> this<00:28:18.279> after-death

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communication.<00:28:20.159> I<00:28:20.240> would<00:28:20.399> love<00:28:20.559> to<00:28:20.679> hear<00:28:20.919> what<00:28:21.039> you<00:28:21.200> think<00:28:21.399> the<00:28:21.559> mechanism<00:28:22.440> is<00:28:22.640> going<00:28:22.880> on<00:28:23.120> there,<00:28:23.279> but<00:28:23.440> I<00:28:23.519> just<00:28:23.600> want<00:28:23.720> to<00:28:23.880> share<00:28:24.200> that<00:28:24.399> we've<00:28:24.720> had<00:28:25.480> Matthew<00:28:25.880> McKay<00:28:26.519> on,<00:28:27.519> and

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he,<00:28:28.319> he<00:28:28.719> has<00:28:29.119> written<00:28:29.519> a<00:28:29.919> couple<00:28:30.319> of<00:28:30.719> books,<00:28:31.119> 'Lessons<00:28:31.519> from<00:28:31.919> the<00:28:32.320> Afterlife:<00:28:32.720> A<00:28:33.120> Deep<00:28:33.520> Knowledge<00:28:33.920> Meditation<00:28:34.320> Guidebook'<00:28:34.720> and<00:28:35.120> 'The<00:28:35.520> Luminous<00:28:35.920> Landscape<00:28:36.320> of

00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:45.279
the<00:28:36.760> Afterlife,'<00:28:37.360> where<00:28:37.559> he<00:28:38.519> describes<00:28:39.519> a<00:28:39.679> method<00:28:40.000> for<00:28:40.200> channeling<00:28:40.720> that<00:28:40.919> everyone<00:28:41.760> can<00:28:41.960> do.<00:28:42.159> And<00:28:42.399> actually,<00:28:42.799> he,<00:28:43.200> I<00:28:43.919> believe,<00:28:44.919> did

00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:53.919
have<00:28:45.440> a<00:28:45.640> therapy<00:28:46.080> session<00:28:46.640> or<00:28:46.880> more<00:28:47.279> with<00:28:47.440> Alan<00:28:47.799> Botkin,<00:28:48.559> who<00:28:48.760> you<00:28:49.200> mentioned<00:28:49.919> earlier,<00:28:50.919> and<00:28:51.159> that's<00:28:51.440> how<00:28:52.200> Matt<00:28:52.519> was<00:28:52.679> able<00:28:52.919> to<00:28:53.120> communicate<00:28:53.760> with

00:28:53.919 --> 00:29:02.200
his<00:28:54.039> son,<00:28:54.279> Jordan,<00:28:54.760> who<00:28:54.919> was<00:28:55.399> sadly,<00:28:56.399> uh,<00:28:56.559> murdered<00:28:57.279> when<00:28:57.440> he<00:28:57.600> was<00:28:57.720> in<00:28:57.880> his<00:28:58.240> early<00:28:59.240> 20s."<00:29:00.240> "Yeah,<00:29:00.760> yeah,<00:29:01.519> and,<00:29:01.840> and<00:29:02.039> I

00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:11.399
I<00:29:02.320> think<00:29:02.480> I<00:29:02.600> want<00:29:02.720> to<00:29:03.360> clarify,<00:29:04.080> too,<00:29:04.640> that<00:29:05.640> channeling,<00:29:06.480> as<00:29:06.640> I<00:29:07.320> understand<00:29:07.559> it,<00:29:08.480> is<00:29:09.200> when<00:29:09.679> a<00:29:09.880> living<00:29:10.399> person

00:29:11.399 --> 00:29:20.880
becomes<00:29:12.080> a<00:29:12.240> sort<00:29:12.440> of<00:29:12.720> mouthpiece<00:29:13.679> for<00:29:14.640> a<00:29:15.159> disembodied<00:29:16.559> spirit,<00:29:17.559> and,<00:29:18.159> um,<00:29:18.399> after-death<00:29:19.080> communication<00:29:20.080> isn't

00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:29.120
exactly<00:29:21.327> like<00:29:21.773> that.<00:29:22.220> It's<00:29:22.666> more<00:29:23.113> like,<00:29:23.560> act—just<00:29:24.006> meeting,<00:29:24.453> meeting<00:29:24.900> a<00:29:25.346> person.<00:29:25.793> I<00:29:26.239> think<00:29:26.686> he<00:29:27.133> means<00:29:27.579> it<00:29:28.026> probably<00:29:28.472> in<00:29:28.919> that

00:29:29.120 --> 00:29:38.080
same<00:29:29.360> regard;<00:29:29.679> it's<00:29:29.919> maybe<00:29:30.240> just<00:29:30.559> the,<00:29:30.960> the<00:29:31.120> terminology.<00:29:32.000> At<00:29:32.120> least<00:29:32.320> when<00:29:32.519> I<00:29:33.080> read<00:29:33.399> his<00:29:33.720> process,<00:29:34.080> it's<00:29:34.240> a<00:29:34.399> way<00:29:34.559> to<00:29:34.760> communicate<00:29:35.760> with<00:29:36.120> the<00:29:36.399> past<00:29:36.640> loved<00:29:36.919> one."<00:29:37.760> "Yeah,

00:29:38.080 --> 00:29:47.519
yeah,<00:29:38.320> yeah,<00:29:38.679> absolutely<00:29:39.480> right.<00:29:40.000> Yeah,<00:29:41.159> yes.<00:29:42.159> So,<00:29:42.880> um,<00:29:43.240> well,<00:29:43.519> you<00:29:43.760> had<00:29:44.399> asked<00:29:44.760> about<00:29:45.080> the<00:29:45.320> mechanism,<00:29:46.519> and

00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:56.720
and<00:29:47.799> this<00:29:48.279> goes<00:29:48.720> back<00:29:48.960> to<00:29:49.880> our<00:29:50.240> theory<00:29:50.720> about<00:29:51.720> why<00:29:52.720> about<00:29:53.120> 25%<00:29:54.120> of<00:29:54.399> people<00:29:55.399> who<00:29:56.399> go

00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:05.559
through<00:29:57.120> IADC<00:29:57.840> don't,<00:29:58.039> don't<00:29:58.320> actually<00:29:58.720> have<00:29:58.880> an<00:29:59.080> ADC<00:29:59.679> during<00:30:00.000> the<00:30:00.480> process.<00:30:01.480> And<00:30:01.640> I<00:30:01.760> should<00:30:01.960> say,<00:30:02.159> too,<00:30:02.519> some<00:30:02.760> people<00:30:03.640> end<00:30:03.840> up<00:30:04.080> having<00:30:04.320> an<00:30:04.480> ADC<00:30:05.360> like

00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:14.320
between<00:30:06.120> sessions<00:30:06.519> or<00:30:06.840> after<00:30:07.159> the<00:30:07.360> second<00:30:07.840> session,<00:30:08.840> um,<00:30:09.360> not<00:30:09.799> right<00:30:09.960> in<00:30:10.159> the<00:30:10.360> session,<00:30:10.799> but,<00:30:11.440> but<00:30:11.559> we're<00:30:11.840> interested<00:30:12.279> in<00:30:12.760> why<00:30:13.279> doesn't<00:30:13.720> everybody

00:30:14.320 --> 00:30:22.760
have<00:30:14.559> this<00:30:14.840> experience,<00:30:15.440> and,<00:30:16.320> uh,<00:30:16.880> the<00:30:17.080> best<00:30:17.320> that<00:30:17.480> we<00:30:17.600> can<00:30:18.039> figure<00:30:18.919> is<00:30:19.159> it<00:30:19.320> really<00:30:19.600> doesn't<00:30:19.960> have<00:30:20.120> to<00:30:20.320> do<00:30:20.600> with<00:30:21.559> expectations.<00:30:22.559> In

00:30:22.760 --> 00:30:31.440
fact,<00:30:23.279> Al<00:30:24.279> believes<00:30:24.840> that<00:30:25.399> people<00:30:25.679> who<00:30:25.840> are<00:30:26.000> a<00:30:26.120> little<00:30:26.320> bit<00:30:26.640> skeptical<00:30:27.399> actually<00:30:27.640> make<00:30:28.120> better<00:30:29.480> IADC<00:30:30.480> therapist<00:30:31.159> or

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clients<00:30:32.039> than<00:30:32.799> people<00:30:33.120> who<00:30:33.320> are<00:30:33.600> really<00:30:34.080> wanting,<00:30:35.080> and<00:30:35.320> that's<00:30:36.159> because,<00:30:37.519> um,<00:30:38.519> any<00:30:38.960> kind,<00:30:39.279> any<00:30:39.760> kind

00:30:39.919 --> 00:30:49.039
of<00:30:40.499> emotion<00:30:41.079> that<00:30:41.659> sets<00:30:42.239> the<00:30:42.819> person<00:30:43.399> off-center,<00:30:43.979> we<00:30:44.559> think,<00:30:45.139> gets<00:30:45.719> in<00:30:46.299> the<00:30:46.879> way<00:30:47.459> of<00:30:48.039> ADC.

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And<00:30:49.440> so,<00:30:50.000> if<00:30:50.159> a<00:30:50.399> person<00:30:50.760> is<00:30:51.080> deeply<00:30:51.960> grieving,<00:30:52.960> and<00:30:53.159> if,<00:30:53.640> or,<00:30:54.039> or<00:30:54.399> if,<00:30:54.960> like,<00:30:55.159> the<00:30:55.360> grief<00:30:55.720> is<00:30:55.960> related<00:30:56.399> to<00:30:56.679> this<00:30:57.000> profound<00:30:57.480> sense

00:30:57.760 --> 00:31:06.240
of<00:30:58.200> loss,<00:30:58.720> or<00:30:58.880> if<00:30:59.080> there's,<00:30:59.960> like,<00:31:00.279> anger<00:31:00.760> about<00:31:01.039> unfinished<00:31:01.760> business,<00:31:02.200> or<00:31:02.480> guilt<00:31:02.960> about<00:31:03.360> something<00:31:03.960> from<00:31:04.159> the<00:31:04.399> relationship,<00:31:05.240> or<00:31:05.799> any

00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:14.880
kind<00:31:06.480> of,<00:31:07.440> um,<00:31:08.279> painful<00:31:09.480> emotion<00:31:10.480> that,<00:31:11.240> uh,<00:31:11.600> in<00:31:11.720> a<00:31:12.360> kind<00:31:12.519> of<00:31:12.720> psychological<00:31:13.519> sense,<00:31:13.960> sets<00:31:14.200> the<00:31:14.440> person

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off-center.<00:31:15.424> And<00:31:15.968> what<00:31:16.512> facilitates<00:31:17.056> people<00:31:17.600> to<00:31:18.144> have<00:31:18.688> after-death<00:31:19.231> communication<00:31:19.775> is<00:31:20.319> to<00:31:20.863> be<00:31:21.407> in<00:31:21.951> this,<00:31:22.495> uh,<00:31:23.039> psycho-

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:32.799
spiritually<00:31:24.919> centered<00:31:25.960> place<00:31:26.960> where<00:31:27.480> they're,<00:31:28.279> um,<00:31:29.200> inviting<00:31:30.200> the<00:31:30.559> communication<00:31:31.559> but<00:31:31.760> not<00:31:32.080> grasping

00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:42.600
after<00:31:33.240> it,<00:31:34.240> um,<00:31:34.559> where<00:31:34.840> they're,<00:31:35.600> uh,<00:31:35.919> open<00:31:36.720> and<00:31:37.720> receptive,<00:31:38.720> um,<00:31:39.399> and,<00:31:40.399> uh,<00:31:41.159> and

00:31:42.600 --> 00:31:52.720
patient,<00:31:43.600> and,<00:31:44.519> and<00:31:45.360> also,<00:31:46.360> as<00:31:46.480> I<00:31:46.600> mentioned<00:31:47.880> before,<00:31:48.880> able<00:31:49.440> to<00:31:50.440> attend<00:31:51.720> to

00:31:52.720 --> 00:32:01.360
the<00:31:52.919> many<00:31:53.399> different<00:31:53.880> ways<00:31:54.480> that<00:31:54.679> the<00:31:54.919> disembodied<00:31:55.840> try<00:31:56.080> to<00:31:56.320> communicate<00:31:57.000> with<00:31:57.200> us.<00:31:57.960> For<00:31:58.200> some<00:31:58.480> people,<00:31:58.840> it<00:31:59.000> might<00:31:59.240> be<00:31:59.600> some<00:31:59.880> kind<00:32:00.039> of<00:32:00.240> mental<00:32:00.639> imagery;<00:32:01.200> it

00:32:01.360 --> 00:32:09.919
might<00:32:01.600> be<00:32:02.240> some<00:32:02.559> experience<00:32:03.080> that<00:32:03.320> happens<00:32:03.679> while<00:32:03.880> they're<00:32:04.679> asleep,<00:32:05.679> um,<00:32:06.200> or<00:32:06.559> it<00:32:06.760> might<00:32:07.320> be<00:32:08.320> a<00:32:08.679> manifestation<00:32:09.679> of

00:32:09.919 --> 00:32:18.760
something<00:32:11.639> physical;<00:32:12.639> it<00:32:12.799> might<00:32:12.960> be<00:32:13.200> electronic<00:32:14.080> things<00:32:14.519> that<00:32:14.960> go<00:32:15.679> [klui],<00:32:16.679> um.<00:32:17.440> So,<00:32:18.440> so

00:32:18.760 --> 00:32:27.240
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00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:35.880
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00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:45.240
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00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:53.840
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00:32:53.840 --> 00:33:02.880
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00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:11.120
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00:33:11.120 --> 00:33:20.399
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00:33:20.399 --> 00:33:30.159
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00:33:30.159 --> 00:33:39.240
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00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:47.399
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00:33:47.399 --> 00:33:55.159
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00:33:55.159 --> 00:34:03.760
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00:34:03.760 --> 00:34:13.159
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00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:22.280
them."<00:34:14.159> "Yeah,<00:34:14.679> yeah,<00:34:15.159> absolutely.<00:34:16.159> It's,<00:34:16.760> uh,<00:34:17.280> it's,<00:34:17.839> you<00:34:17.960> know,<00:34:18.280> easy<00:34:18.639> to<00:34:18.879> say,<00:34:19.359> hard<00:34:19.639> to<00:34:19.919> do,<00:34:20.800> and<00:34:21.000> that's<00:34:21.320> why

00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:31.280
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00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:39.679
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00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:48.240
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00:34:48.240 --> 00:34:56.960
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00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:05.240
he,<00:34:57.880> uh,<00:34:58.280> he<00:34:58.480> was<00:34:58.880> really<00:34:59.720> curious<00:35:00.599> about<00:35:01.599> that,<00:35:02.079> even,<00:35:03.200> even<00:35:04.200> eliminating<00:35:05.000> the

00:35:05.240 --> 00:35:14.040
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00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:21.920
He<00:35:14.240> just<00:35:14.440> couldn't<00:35:14.760> figure<00:35:15.119> out<00:35:15.960> why<00:35:16.160> they<00:35:16.280> weren't<00:35:16.680> having<00:35:16.960> it.<00:35:17.200> They<00:35:17.320> seemed<00:35:17.599> to<00:35:17.800> have<00:35:17.960> all<00:35:18.160> the<00:35:18.359> ingredients<00:35:19.040> and<00:35:19.200> yet<00:35:19.359> it<00:35:19.520> wasn't<00:35:20.000> happening.<00:35:20.800> This<00:35:20.960> is<00:35:21.119> in<00:35:21.280> a<00:35:21.720> very

00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:30.280
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00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:38.920
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00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:47.240
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00:35:47.240 --> 00:35:55.520
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00:35:55.520 --> 00:36:03.680
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00:36:03.680 --> 00:36:13.000
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00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:21.400
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00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:29.760
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00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:38.040
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00:36:38.040 --> 00:36:46.480
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00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:54.760
says<00:36:46.800> to<00:36:47.040> tell<00:36:47.319> you<00:36:47.599> that<00:36:47.800> you<00:36:48.040> think<00:36:48.319> you're<00:36:48.599> in<00:36:48.839> charge,<00:36:49.720> but<00:36:49.920> we're<00:36:50.240> in<00:36:52.079> charge.<00:36:53.079> We<00:36:53.359> decide<00:36:54.040> if<00:36:54.200> we're<00:36:54.400> going<00:36:54.520> to

00:36:54.760 --> 00:37:03.839
come,<00:36:55.400> how<00:36:55.560> we're<00:36:55.760> going<00:36:55.880> to<00:36:56.119> come,<00:36:56.839> and<00:36:57.000> it's<00:36:57.200> all<00:36:57.720> based<00:36:57.960> on<00:36:58.160> the<00:36:58.319> well-being<00:36:59.119> of<00:36:59.319> the<00:36:59.520> living<00:37:00.040> person.<00:37:00.960> If<00:37:01.160> we<00:37:01.400> think<00:37:01.680> it's<00:37:01.920> not<00:37:02.119> in<00:37:02.319> their<00:37:02.599> best<00:37:02.920> interest,

00:37:03.839 --> 00:37:12.880
we<00:37:04.000> won't<00:37:05.359> come."<00:37:06.359> So<00:37:06.680> that<00:37:06.839> was,<00:37:07.440> uh,<00:37:07.839> that<00:37:07.960> was<00:37:08.599> very<00:37:09.599> interesting<00:37:10.480> and<00:37:11.079> insightful,<00:37:12.079> insightful.

00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:22.319
Yeah,<00:37:13.440> yeah.<00:37:14.440> So<00:37:15.200> one<00:37:15.400> other<00:37:15.880> story,<00:37:16.880> um,<00:37:17.280> one<00:37:17.480> of<00:37:17.680> my<00:37:18.440> students<00:37:19.440> that<00:37:20.319> practiced<00:37:20.839> with<00:37:21.319> me

00:37:22.319 --> 00:37:30.680
had<00:37:22.520> lost<00:37:23.119> a<00:37:23.280> relative<00:37:24.040> in<00:37:24.160> a<00:37:24.400> tragic<00:37:25.000> accident<00:37:25.520> some<00:37:25.800> 10<00:37:26.079> years<00:37:26.440> before,<00:37:27.760> and,<00:37:28.440> um,<00:37:29.160> and<00:37:30.000> so<00:37:30.520> I

00:37:30.680 --> 00:37:39.200
was<00:37:31.280> in<00:37:31.560> this<00:37:31.839> practice<00:37:32.240> session.<00:37:32.680> I<00:37:32.800> was<00:37:32.960> the<00:37:33.200> therapist<00:37:34.040> and,<00:37:34.720> uh,<00:37:34.839> she<00:37:35.160> was<00:37:35.640> the<00:37:36.000> client.<00:37:37.000> So<00:37:37.480> she<00:37:37.760> was,<00:37:38.720> um,

00:37:39.200 --> 00:37:48.119
sitting<00:37:40.200> right<00:37:40.480> behind<00:37:41.200> me,<00:37:42.040> uh,<00:37:42.240> where<00:37:42.560> the<00:37:42.920> where<00:37:43.079> the<00:37:43.200> door<00:37:43.560> is.<00:37:43.760> I'm<00:37:43.880> going<00:37:44.000> to<00:37:44.480> show<00:37:44.760> you<00:37:45.000> a<00:37:45.079> little<00:37:45.280> bit<00:37:45.560> right<00:37:47.040> there.<00:37:48.040> I

00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:57.560
was<00:37:48.280> sitting<00:37:48.560> in<00:37:48.720> this<00:37:48.920> corner<00:37:49.800> and<00:37:50.040> she<00:37:50.359> was<00:37:50.960> her<00:37:51.200> back<00:37:51.640> was<00:37:51.960> to<00:37:52.440> this<00:37:52.760> to<00:37:52.960> the<00:37:53.280> door.<00:37:54.280> And<00:37:54.720> so<00:37:55.240> we<00:37:55.680> did<00:37:55.920> the<00:37:56.079> session.<00:37:57.000> She

00:37:57.560 --> 00:38:05.880
contacted<00:37:58.119> this<00:37:58.280> loved<00:37:58.560> one<00:37:58.800> that<00:37:58.960> she'd<00:37:59.400> always<00:37:59.720> wanted<00:38:00.079> to<00:38:00.280> have<00:38:00.520> contact<00:38:01.000> with,<00:38:01.240> never<00:38:01.560> had<00:38:01.760> been<00:38:01.960> able<00:38:02.480> to,<00:38:03.480> and,<00:38:04.079> um,<00:38:05.079> and<00:38:05.280> at<00:38:05.520> the<00:38:05.680> end

00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:14.560
of<00:38:06.000> the<00:38:06.160> session,<00:38:06.800> when<00:38:06.960> we<00:38:07.079> were<00:38:07.440> processing<00:38:08.319> it<00:38:08.520> and<00:38:08.640> bringing<00:38:09.000> it<00:38:09.119> to<00:38:09.319> a<00:38:09.520> close,<00:38:10.400> she<00:38:10.599> said,<00:38:10.920> "You<00:38:11.079> know,<00:38:11.800> I<00:38:11.920> feel<00:38:12.240> like<00:38:12.520> a<00:38:12.920> door<00:38:13.359> has<00:38:13.680> opened<00:38:14.359> in

00:38:14.560 --> 00:38:22.800
my<00:38:14.839> relationship<00:38:15.760> with<00:38:16.280> with<00:38:16.800> this<00:38:17.040> loved<00:38:17.400> one."<00:38:18.359> And<00:38:18.520> I<00:38:18.640> said,<00:38:19.000> "Wow,<00:38:19.400> that's<00:38:19.880> really<00:38:20.880> fantastic."<00:38:21.880> Then<00:38:22.040> she<00:38:22.200> went<00:38:22.400> on<00:38:22.599> to

00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:32.680
say<00:38:23.160> something,<00:38:23.720> and<00:38:24.119> just<00:38:24.760> then,<00:38:25.280> I'm<00:38:25.400> going<00:38:25.520> to<00:38:25.800> run<00:38:26.079> back<00:38:26.240> here<00:38:26.359> and<00:38:26.480> show<00:38:26.760> you,<00:38:28.720> this<00:38:29.000> door<00:38:29.560> popped<00:38:31.680> open

00:38:32.680 --> 00:38:41.680
and<00:38:32.839> did<00:38:33.119> this,<00:38:33.319> but<00:38:33.520> not<00:38:33.839> that<00:38:34.160> fast,<00:38:35.160> which<00:38:35.319> is<00:38:35.800> what's<00:38:36.119> weird<00:38:36.480> about<00:38:36.720> it.<00:38:37.280> It<00:38:37.520> popped<00:38:37.960> open<00:38:38.480> and<00:38:38.680> it<00:38:39.160> just<00:38:39.800> very<00:38:40.680> slowly

00:38:41.680 --> 00:38:50.720
opened<00:38:42.319> like<00:38:42.520> not<00:38:42.800> its<00:38:43.079> normal<00:38:43.680> way.<00:38:44.520> So<00:38:44.800> I'm<00:38:44.960> sitting<00:38:45.359> over<00:38:45.720> there,<00:38:46.200> I<00:38:46.319> can<00:38:46.560> see<00:38:46.839> it,<00:38:47.040> her<00:38:47.319> back<00:38:47.760> is<00:38:48.240> is<00:38:48.599> here,<00:38:49.599> and<00:38:50.359> I'm

00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:58.920
my<00:38:50.960> jaw<00:38:51.400> drops,<00:38:52.400> my<00:38:52.720> two<00:38:53.000> students<00:38:53.440> on<00:38:53.599> the<00:38:53.800> couch<00:38:54.079> here,<00:38:54.440> their<00:38:54.640> jaw<00:38:55.079> drops.<00:38:55.880> She's<00:38:56.200> like,<00:38:56.520> "What?"<00:38:56.800> And<00:38:56.920> we<00:38:57.040> turn,<00:38:57.599> we<00:38:57.960> point,<00:38:58.599> and<00:38:58.720> she

00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:07.119
turns<00:38:59.319> around<00:38:59.640> to<00:38:59.880> see<00:39:00.599> the<00:39:00.800> door<00:39:02.640> opening<00:39:03.640> right<00:39:03.880> behind<00:39:04.280> her.<00:39:05.240> Of<00:39:05.400> course,<00:39:05.760> I<00:39:06.480> first<00:39:07.000> you

00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:16.079
know<00:39:07.280> looked<00:39:07.599> at<00:39:08.000> to<00:39:08.200> see<00:39:08.680> is<00:39:09.359> you<00:39:09.480> know<00:39:09.960> was<00:39:10.160> that<00:39:10.359> my<00:39:10.560> husband?<00:39:10.960> He's<00:39:11.240> never<00:39:11.599> bothered<00:39:11.960> me<00:39:12.160> when<00:39:12.319> I've<00:39:12.520> been<00:39:12.680> in<00:39:12.920> session.<00:39:13.839> No,<00:39:14.200> nobody<00:39:14.560> was<00:39:14.839> there,<00:39:15.680> and

00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:24.800
I've<00:39:16.240> lived<00:39:16.520> in<00:39:16.680> this<00:39:16.880> house<00:39:17.200> now<00:39:17.520> for<00:39:17.920> more<00:39:18.200> than<00:39:18.480> 25<00:39:19.160> years.<00:39:19.680> That<00:39:19.839> is<00:39:20.040> the<00:39:20.359> only<00:39:20.839> time<00:39:21.079> that<00:39:21.240> the<00:39:21.400> door<00:39:21.800> spontaneously<00:39:23.240> opened.<00:39:24.240> So

00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:33.280
um,<00:39:25.280> so<00:39:26.040> one<00:39:26.160> of<00:39:26.319> the<00:39:26.520> things,<00:39:27.160> if<00:39:27.520> any<00:39:27.720> of<00:39:27.839> your<00:39:28.040> viewers<00:39:28.400> are<00:39:28.640> mental<00:39:28.960> health<00:39:29.319> professionals<00:39:30.319> thinking<00:39:30.720> about<00:39:31.480> becoming<00:39:32.480> trained<00:39:33.040> in

00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:43.240
in<00:39:33.440> this<00:39:33.720> technique,<00:39:34.640> just<00:39:34.920> be<00:39:35.240> prepared.<00:39:36.079> And<00:39:36.359> that's<00:39:36.520> only<00:39:36.880> one<00:39:37.240> story.<00:39:37.880> We've<00:39:38.119> got<00:39:38.560> lots<00:39:38.839> of<00:39:39.079> stories<00:39:39.760> of,<00:39:40.280> uh,<00:39:40.440> things<00:39:40.680> that<00:39:40.839> have<00:39:41.240> happened,<00:39:42.240> um,

00:39:43.240 --> 00:39:51.480
that<00:39:43.640> you<00:39:43.760> know<00:39:44.000> beyond<00:39:44.520> just<00:39:44.800> the<00:39:45.119> after-death<00:39:46.440> communication,<00:39:47.560> right?<00:39:48.560> There<00:39:48.720> can<00:39:48.920> be<00:39:49.480> meaningful<00:39:50.480> coincidences<00:39:51.240> or

00:39:51.480 --> 00:40:01.680
synchronicities<00:39:52.160> that<00:39:52.359> occur,<00:39:52.680> but<00:39:52.920> also<00:39:53.280> in<00:39:53.400> the<00:39:53.599> physical<00:39:54.240> world.<00:39:55.240> And<00:39:55.560> what<00:39:55.680> do<00:39:55.800> you<00:39:55.960> think<00:39:56.160> is<00:39:56.480> happening<00:39:57.560> there?<00:39:57.880> Is<00:39:58.079> that<00:39:59.960> a

00:40:01.680 --> 00:40:10.839
Yeah,<00:40:02.680> I<00:40:02.800> think<00:40:03.000> it's<00:40:03.280> the<00:40:03.520> loved<00:40:03.839> one<00:40:04.520> opening<00:40:04.960> the<00:40:05.680> door.<00:40:06.680> That's<00:40:06.839> what<00:40:07.040> I<00:40:07.240> think.<00:40:08.000> Yeah,<00:40:08.560> yeah,<00:40:08.960> yeah.<00:40:09.240> That's<00:40:09.560> phenomenal.<00:40:10.560> Yeah.

00:40:10.839 --> 00:40:20.319
Truly.<00:40:12.000> Another<00:40:13.000> aspect<00:40:13.680> of<00:40:13.880> this,<00:40:14.440> talking<00:40:14.920> about<00:40:15.319> what<00:40:15.440> are<00:40:15.800> what's<00:40:16.000> the<00:40:16.240> dynamic<00:40:16.960> behind<00:40:17.480> this<00:40:18.280> process,<00:40:19.319> um,

00:40:20.319 --> 00:40:28.880
one<00:40:20.520> way<00:40:20.680> to<00:40:20.880> think<00:40:21.160> about<00:40:21.480> it,<00:40:21.960> a<00:40:22.560> and<00:40:23.240> this<00:40:24.119> may<00:40:24.599> actually<00:40:25.079> be<00:40:25.480> an<00:40:25.880> accurate<00:40:27.760> explanation<00:40:28.680> or

00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:37.680
it<00:40:29.079> might<00:40:29.760> be<00:40:30.119> just<00:40:30.359> a<00:40:30.560> useful<00:40:31.599> analogy,<00:40:32.599> but,<00:40:33.119> um,<00:40:34.000> in<00:40:35.000> discussions<00:40:35.680> about<00:40:35.960> the<00:40:36.400> afterlife,<00:40:37.400> there

00:40:37.680 --> 00:40:46.839
is<00:40:37.839> a<00:40:38.000> lot<00:40:38.160> of<00:40:38.359> talk<00:40:38.680> about<00:40:39.079> energetic<00:40:40.319> vibration,<00:40:41.319> and<00:40:41.560> that<00:40:41.839> when<00:40:42.000> we're<00:40:42.200> in<00:40:42.480> physical<00:40:42.920> form,<00:40:43.720> our<00:40:44.000> vibration<00:40:44.480> is<00:40:44.760> relatively<00:40:45.599> lower.<00:40:46.599> When

00:40:46.839 --> 00:40:56.160
we're<00:40:48.200> emotionally<00:40:49.200> upset,<00:40:50.200> our<00:40:50.720> vibration<00:40:51.280> is<00:40:51.480> even<00:40:52.480> lower.<00:40:53.480> And<00:40:53.800> when<00:40:54.119> we<00:40:55.160> disembody

00:40:56.160 --> 00:41:06.000
at<00:40:56.599> death,<00:40:57.680> our<00:40:58.400> vibration,<00:40:59.400> because<00:40:59.680> we're<00:40:59.920> released<00:41:00.480> from<00:41:00.920> the<00:41:01.119> physical<00:41:01.599> level,<00:41:02.160> we,<00:41:02.760> um,<00:41:03.560> our<00:41:03.839> vibration<00:41:05.000> increases

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:14.920
and<00:41:06.319> that<00:41:07.000> in<00:41:07.160> the<00:41:07.520> afterlife<00:41:08.319> there<00:41:08.560> are<00:41:09.040> various<00:41:09.520> levels<00:41:10.040> of<00:41:10.599> of,<00:41:11.079> um,<00:41:12.440> vibration.<00:41:13.440> And<00:41:13.599> so<00:41:14.280> what

00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:24.200
what<00:41:15.200> one<00:41:15.440> way<00:41:15.599> to<00:41:15.800> think<00:41:16.040> about<00:41:16.319> what<00:41:16.440> we're<00:41:16.640> doing<00:41:16.880> in<00:41:17.480> IADC<00:41:18.480> is<00:41:18.720> helping<00:41:19.240> the<00:41:19.800> the<00:41:20.240> living<00:41:20.760> person<00:41:21.680> go<00:41:21.960> from<00:41:22.200> a<00:41:22.400> lower<00:41:23.240> vibration

00:41:24.200 --> 00:41:32.680
to<00:41:24.480> releasing<00:41:25.200> whatever<00:41:25.839> is<00:41:26.160> holding<00:41:26.599> them<00:41:27.359> down,<00:41:27.680> so<00:41:27.839> to<00:41:28.079> speak,<00:41:28.880> into<00:41:29.560> a<00:41:29.800> higher<00:41:30.720> vibration,<00:41:31.720> which<00:41:32.280> makes

00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:40.839
them<00:41:33.000> more<00:41:33.880> accessible<00:41:35.040> to,<00:41:36.040> uh,<00:41:36.200> beings<00:41:36.760> that<00:41:37.000> are<00:41:37.480> existing<00:41:37.960> at<00:41:38.119> a<00:41:38.319> higher<00:41:39.160> vibration.<00:41:40.160> And,<00:41:40.720> um,

00:41:40.839 --> 00:41:49.760
so<00:41:41.119> that's<00:41:41.520> that's<00:41:42.119> just<00:41:42.319> a<00:41:42.520> way<00:41:42.680> to<00:41:43.280> conceptualize<00:41:44.280> what's<00:41:44.560> happening.<00:41:45.040> That's<00:41:45.240> not<00:41:45.480> from<00:41:45.800> research<00:41:46.280> or<00:41:46.640> or<00:41:46.839> anything,<00:41:47.280> it's<00:41:47.560> just<00:41:48.400> speculation.<00:41:49.400> Yeah.

00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:58.599
And<00:41:49.920> a<00:41:50.040> lot<00:41:50.200> of<00:41:50.440> lived<00:41:51.440> personal<00:41:51.839> and<00:41:52.040> professional<00:41:52.720> experience<00:41:53.200> in<00:41:53.400> this<00:41:53.599> area.<00:41:54.119> Yes,<00:41:54.599> that's<00:41:54.880> right.<00:41:55.520> Because<00:41:55.839> to<00:41:56.079> our<00:41:56.359> knowledge,<00:41:57.359> there<00:41:57.520> aren't<00:41:58.079> people

00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:06.359
in<00:41:58.800> the<00:41:59.280> or<00:41:59.520> beings<00:41:59.839> in<00:42:00.000> the<00:42:00.160> spirit<00:42:00.440> world<00:42:00.760> going<00:42:01.000> around<00:42:01.200> and<00:42:01.359> opening<00:42:01.680> up<00:42:01.920> doors<00:42:02.359> all<00:42:02.520> the<00:42:02.720> time.<00:42:03.040> I<00:42:03.119> mean,<00:42:03.240> there<00:42:03.359> are<00:42:03.599> stories<00:42:04.160> of<00:42:04.800> and<00:42:05.000> people<00:42:05.319> having<00:42:05.640> experiences

00:42:06.359 --> 00:42:17.000
with<00:42:07.760> poltergeist,<00:42:08.760> or<00:42:09.359> I<00:42:09.440> don't<00:42:09.560> know<00:42:09.680> what<00:42:09.839> you<00:42:09.920> would<00:42:10.520> categorize<00:42:11.040> the<00:42:11.200> door<00:42:11.440> opening<00:42:12.040> as,<00:42:12.440> or<00:42:12.640> maybe<00:42:12.880> some<00:42:13.200> type<00:42:13.560> of<00:42:14.319> psychokinesis,<00:42:16.000> perhaps.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:25.520
There's<00:42:17.240> also<00:42:17.480> the<00:42:17.960> term<00:42:18.960> living<00:42:19.359> agent<00:42:19.880> psi,<00:42:20.400> which<00:42:20.559> some<00:42:21.040> people<00:42:22.040> suggest<00:42:22.920> that<00:42:23.680> maybe<00:42:24.680> when,<00:42:24.960> for<00:42:25.160> example,

00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:33.680
someone<00:42:25.800> goes<00:42:25.960> to<00:42:26.119> a<00:42:26.200> medium,<00:42:26.599> that<00:42:26.680> the<00:42:26.760> medium<00:42:27.200> is<00:42:27.359> picking<00:42:27.680> up<00:42:28.000> on<00:42:28.839> the<00:42:29.000> memories<00:42:29.480> and<00:42:29.800> experiences<00:42:30.559> of<00:42:30.680> the<00:42:30.839> living<00:42:31.599> person.<00:42:32.599> Right.<00:42:33.520> What

00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:42.559
do<00:42:33.800> you<00:42:33.920> say<00:42:34.119> to<00:42:34.280> somebody<00:42:34.599> who<00:42:34.760> might<00:42:34.960> say,<00:42:35.240> "Well,<00:42:35.440> that<00:42:35.599> was<00:42:35.839> just<00:42:36.400> that<00:42:37.599> client<00:42:38.599> frequency<00:42:39.280> that<00:42:39.400> opened<00:42:39.760> the<00:42:39.920> door,"<00:42:40.240> versus<00:42:41.200> a<00:42:42.200> somebody

00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:50.960
in<00:42:42.720> the<00:42:42.839> spirit<00:42:43.559> world?<00:42:44.559> Yeah,<00:42:45.000> you<00:42:45.119> can<00:42:45.319> believe<00:42:45.640> that<00:42:45.800> if<00:42:45.920> you<00:42:46.040> want<00:42:47.520> to.<00:42:48.520> I<00:42:48.599> mean,<00:42:48.920> I<00:42:49.079> I<00:42:49.200> have<00:42:49.400> no<00:42:49.640> investment<00:42:50.240> in<00:42:50.599> in

00:42:50.960 --> 00:43:00.559
someone<00:42:51.960> interpreting<00:42:52.960> something<00:42:53.480> the<00:42:53.640> way<00:42:53.839> that<00:42:54.000> I<00:42:54.200> do,<00:42:55.200> um,<00:42:55.800> but<00:42:55.960> I<00:42:56.079> do<00:42:56.319> think,<00:42:56.880> well,<00:42:57.680> uh,<00:42:57.880> I've<00:42:58.079> been<00:42:59.280> influenced

00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:09.440
by,<00:43:01.559> um,<00:43:01.880> stories<00:43:02.839> by<00:43:03.160> evidential<00:43:03.760> mediums<00:43:04.319> such<00:43:04.480> as<00:43:04.680> Suzanne<00:43:05.440> Giesemann.<00:43:06.440> Uh,<00:43:06.559> she<00:43:06.800> told<00:43:07.079> a<00:43:07.280> story<00:43:07.680> about,<00:43:08.480> uh,<00:43:09.040> that

00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:17.720
she<00:43:09.640> was<00:43:09.839> doing<00:43:10.160> a<00:43:10.280> reading<00:43:10.599> for<00:43:10.800> a<00:43:10.960> young<00:43:11.200> woman<00:43:11.559> whose<00:43:11.880> father<00:43:12.319> had<00:43:12.640> passed,<00:43:13.640> and<00:43:13.800> at<00:43:13.920> the<00:43:14.079> beginning<00:43:14.400> of<00:43:14.520> the<00:43:14.680> reading,<00:43:15.119> the<00:43:15.319> father<00:43:16.040> was<00:43:16.640> the<00:43:16.760> first<00:43:17.040> thing<00:43:17.240> he<00:43:17.359> showed

00:43:17.720 --> 00:43:26.400
Suzanne<00:43:18.280> was<00:43:18.520> shrimp,<00:43:19.520> you<00:43:19.640> know,<00:43:19.839> the<00:43:20.680> crustacean,<00:43:21.680> and<00:43:22.200> he's<00:43:22.640> like<00:43:22.839> very<00:43:23.119> adamant<00:43:23.599> about<00:43:23.839> these<00:43:24.040> shrimp.<00:43:24.559> And<00:43:25.200> and<00:43:25.400> so<00:43:25.640> Suzanne<00:43:26.160> says

00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:33.800
to<00:43:26.559> the<00:43:26.720> young<00:43:26.880> woman,<00:43:27.280> "You<00:43:27.400> know,<00:43:27.599> did<00:43:27.800> shrimp<00:43:28.160> mean<00:43:28.400> anything<00:43:28.760> in<00:43:28.920> your<00:43:29.119> relationship<00:43:29.760> with<00:43:29.880> your<00:43:30.160> father?"<00:43:30.480> And<00:43:30.599> she's<00:43:30.880> like,<00:43:31.200> "No,"<00:43:31.599> you<00:43:31.720> know,<00:43:32.400> and<00:43:32.520> she's<00:43:32.800> racking<00:43:33.200> her<00:43:33.400> brain.

00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:41.040
Nothing's<00:43:34.200> coming.<00:43:34.559> Suzanne<00:43:35.079> thinks,<00:43:35.440> well,<00:43:35.640> says,<00:43:36.079> "Well,<00:43:36.640> let's<00:43:36.880> just<00:43:37.079> hold<00:43:37.440> that,<00:43:37.640> you<00:43:37.760> know,<00:43:38.000> and<00:43:38.200> move<00:43:38.440> on."<00:43:38.880> So<00:43:39.119> then<00:43:39.240> she<00:43:39.440> starts<00:43:39.760> saying<00:43:40.200> all<00:43:40.359> these<00:43:40.559> things<00:43:40.760> that<00:43:40.920> the

00:43:41.040 --> 00:43:49.720
daughter's<00:43:41.520> resonating<00:43:42.119> to,<00:43:42.400> you<00:43:42.520> know,<00:43:42.640> and<00:43:42.760> she<00:43:43.240> the<00:43:43.400> daughter<00:43:43.680> leaves<00:43:44.000> the<00:43:44.200> session<00:43:44.520> on<00:43:44.760> this<00:43:45.000> total<00:43:45.440> high.<00:43:46.280> She<00:43:46.559> gets<00:43:46.839> home,<00:43:47.160> she<00:43:47.400> calls<00:43:47.680> her<00:43:48.280> mother,<00:43:49.280> and

00:43:49.720 --> 00:43:58.240
she's<00:43:50.000> telling<00:43:50.319> her<00:43:50.520> all<00:43:50.720> about<00:43:50.920> the<00:43:51.160> session,<00:43:51.559> all<00:43:51.760> the<00:43:51.880> things<00:43:52.119> Suzanne<00:43:52.640> said<00:43:52.960> that<00:43:53.079> were<00:43:53.319> just<00:43:53.559> like<00:43:54.079> amazing.<00:43:55.079> And<00:43:55.240> then<00:43:55.880> and<00:43:56.040> then<00:43:56.200> she<00:43:56.400> says,<00:43:57.240> "You<00:43:57.319> know,<00:43:57.440> but<00:43:57.599> the<00:43:57.760> weirdest

00:43:58.240 --> 00:44:06.800
thing<00:43:58.520> was<00:43:59.119> at<00:43:59.240> the<00:43:59.480> very<00:43:59.839> beginning,<00:44:00.760> Dad<00:44:01.040> was<00:44:01.200> showing<00:44:01.520> her<00:44:02.359> shrimp."<00:44:03.359> And<00:44:03.520> she<00:44:03.720> said,<00:44:04.160> "You<00:44:04.280> know,<00:44:04.480> Suzanne<00:44:04.880> said<00:44:05.160> Dad<00:44:05.359> was<00:44:05.440> showing<00:44:05.680> her<00:44:05.880> shrimp,"<00:44:06.559> and

00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:15.240
at<00:44:07.000> the<00:44:07.119> other<00:44:07.280> end<00:44:07.440> of<00:44:07.559> the<00:44:07.680> phone,<00:44:07.920> she<00:44:08.079> hears<00:44:08.359> her<00:44:08.520> mother<00:44:09.359> gasp,<00:44:10.359> and<00:44:10.520> she<00:44:10.680> says,<00:44:11.200> "What?"<00:44:11.720> And<00:44:11.839> the<00:44:11.960> mother<00:44:12.200> says,<00:44:12.680> "Well,<00:44:13.720> yesterday<00:44:14.720> I<00:44:14.880> cleaned

00:44:15.240 --> 00:44:23.599
out<00:44:15.440> the<00:44:15.559> freezer<00:44:16.040> in<00:44:16.160> the<00:44:16.400> garage,<00:44:16.960> and<00:44:17.119> at<00:44:17.240> the<00:44:17.400> bottom<00:44:17.800> I<00:44:17.920> found<00:44:18.280> this<00:44:18.520> bag<00:44:18.800> of<00:44:19.240> shrimp,<00:44:20.240> and<00:44:20.359> I<00:44:20.520> decided<00:44:20.920> to<00:44:21.160> boil<00:44:21.480> it<00:44:21.640> up<00:44:22.079> and<00:44:22.559> put<00:44:22.720> it<00:44:22.880> in,<00:44:23.480> you

00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:32.160
know,<00:44:24.079> containers<00:44:24.680> and<00:44:24.920> freeze<00:44:25.280> it.<00:44:25.520> And<00:44:25.800> you<00:44:25.920> know,<00:44:26.480> but<00:44:26.599> she<00:44:26.760> said,<00:44:27.400> "When<00:44:27.760> after<00:44:28.040> I<00:44:28.200> cooked<00:44:28.520> it,<00:44:28.720> I<00:44:28.880> ate<00:44:29.160> one,<00:44:29.599> and<00:44:29.760> it<00:44:29.960> tasted<00:44:30.480> so<00:44:30.839> good<00:44:31.119> that<00:44:31.359> I<00:44:31.599> ate

00:44:32.160 --> 00:44:41.240
almost<00:44:32.599> the<00:44:32.839> whole<00:44:34.960> bag."<00:44:35.960> So<00:44:36.240> now,<00:44:36.920> what's<00:44:37.240> significant<00:44:37.920> about<00:44:38.240> this<00:44:38.480> is<00:44:38.760> that,<00:44:39.599> you<00:44:39.720> know,<00:44:40.119> the<00:44:40.359> daughter

00:44:41.240 --> 00:44:49.760
was<00:44:41.599> unaware<00:44:42.240> of<00:44:42.440> the<00:44:43.319> shrimp.<00:44:44.319> The<00:44:44.599> father<00:44:45.280> is<00:44:45.480> showing<00:44:46.040> her<00:44:46.640> something<00:44:47.160> that<00:44:47.400> he<00:44:47.640> has<00:44:47.960> seen<00:44:48.960> that<00:44:49.160> she<00:44:49.359> doesn't

00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:58.200
know.<00:44:50.200> So<00:44:50.480> how<00:44:50.640> could<00:44:50.880> Suzanne<00:44:51.440> be<00:44:51.680> picking<00:44:52.000> up<00:44:52.240> on<00:44:52.559> the<00:44:53.280> client's,<00:44:54.280> um,<00:44:54.800> psyche?<00:44:55.599> You<00:44:56.040> know?<00:44:57.119> So<00:44:57.720> and<00:44:58.040> and

00:44:58.200 --> 00:45:07.800
that's<00:44:58.400> not<00:44:58.599> the<00:44:58.720> only<00:44:59.000> story.<00:44:59.359> It's<00:44:59.559> just<00:44:59.720> one<00:44:59.960> that<00:45:00.280> stuck<00:45:00.680> with<00:45:00.839> me.<00:45:01.760> Yeah,<00:45:02.200> yeah.<00:45:02.800> I<00:45:02.960> tend<00:45:03.280> to,<00:45:04.240> you<00:45:04.400> know,<00:45:04.680> and<00:45:04.839> like<00:45:05.079> you<00:45:05.200> said,<00:45:05.440> the<00:45:05.559> lived<00:45:06.720> experience

00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:17.760
of,<00:45:08.800> uh,<00:45:09.400> of<00:45:09.559> the<00:45:09.760> door<00:45:10.119> popping<00:45:10.559> open<00:45:11.160> just<00:45:11.480> then,<00:45:12.119> I<00:45:12.200> mean,<00:45:12.480> maybe<00:45:12.920> it<00:45:13.160> was<00:45:13.960> poltergeist,<00:45:14.960> maybe<00:45:15.319> it<00:45:15.520> was,<00:45:16.760> um,

00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:26.440
it's<00:45:18.000> not<00:45:18.200> what<00:45:18.319> it<00:45:18.520> felt<00:45:18.880> like.<00:45:19.680> Yeah,<00:45:20.359> yeah,<00:45:20.760> for<00:45:20.920> sure.<00:45:21.680> Well,<00:45:21.839> and<00:45:21.960> that's<00:45:22.119> a<00:45:22.280> great<00:45:22.559> example<00:45:23.119> with<00:45:23.280> the<00:45:23.440> shrimp<00:45:23.880> story<00:45:24.480> with<00:45:24.640> Suzanne<00:45:25.200> Giesemann<00:45:26.200> where

00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:35.000
the<00:45:26.599> person<00:45:27.119> wasn't<00:45:27.760> already<00:45:28.160> aware<00:45:28.760> of<00:45:29.040> that<00:45:29.319> experience<00:45:29.920> that<00:45:30.319> their<00:45:30.559> mother<00:45:31.040> had<00:45:31.319> had.<00:45:32.280> And<00:45:32.559> so<00:45:33.160> there's<00:45:34.160> more<00:45:34.480> stories,

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:43.160
I<00:45:35.079> would<00:45:35.280> imagine,<00:45:35.720> like<00:45:35.960> that<00:45:36.160> that<00:45:36.359> have<00:45:36.680> convinced<00:45:37.319> you<00:45:38.319> otherwise.<00:45:38.960> And<00:45:39.119> of<00:45:39.319> course,<00:45:39.960> I<00:45:40.079> bring<00:45:40.359> this<00:45:40.520> up<00:45:40.720> because<00:45:40.920> there<00:45:41.040> are<00:45:41.240> people<00:45:41.440> who<00:45:41.559> are<00:45:41.800> skeptical,<00:45:42.640> and<00:45:42.760> it<00:45:42.960> is

00:45:43.160 --> 00:45:51.480
good<00:45:43.511> to<00:45:43.863> address<00:45:44.214> some<00:45:44.565> of<00:45:44.917> these<00:45:45.268> topics<00:45:45.619> so<00:45:45.970> that<00:45:46.322> people<00:45:46.673> can<00:45:47.024> weigh<00:45:47.376> it<00:45:47.727> out<00:45:48.078> for<00:45:48.430> themselves.<00:45:48.781> And<00:45:49.132> of<00:45:49.483> course,<00:45:49.835> it<00:45:50.186> really<00:45:50.537> also<00:45:50.889> oftentimes<00:45:51.240> does

00:45:51.480 --> 00:46:00.599
come<00:45:51.720> down<00:45:51.880> to<00:45:52.119> personal<00:45:52.599> experience<00:45:53.200> for<00:45:54.079> the<00:45:54.280> person<00:45:54.839> and<00:45:55.079> their<00:45:55.280> own<00:45:55.960> loved<00:45:56.280> one,<00:45:56.559> because<00:45:57.040> many<00:45:57.240> people<00:45:57.440> will<00:45:57.640> say,<00:45:58.000> "Well,<00:45:58.240> I<00:45:58.400> just<00:45:58.720> know<00:45:59.160> this<00:45:59.280> is<00:45:59.599> real."

00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:09.160
And<00:46:00.760> to<00:46:01.000> that<00:46:01.200> point,<00:46:01.400> since<00:46:01.559> we're<00:46:01.720> on<00:46:01.839> the<00:46:03.000> topic,<00:46:04.000> can<00:46:04.119> you<00:46:04.280> share<00:46:04.559> any<00:46:04.760> more<00:46:05.200> about<00:46:05.880> the<00:46:06.839> veracity<00:46:07.839> of<00:46:08.839> these

00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:18.079
experiences<00:46:10.160> that<00:46:10.280> you've<00:46:10.559> come<00:46:10.800> across<00:46:11.559> in<00:46:11.800> your<00:46:12.280> research<00:46:12.760> or<00:46:13.000> your<00:46:14.319> experiences<00:46:15.319> that<00:46:16.280> conclude<00:46:17.000> that<00:46:17.880> these

00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:27.000
are<00:46:18.400> real<00:46:19.200> experiences<00:46:19.800> for<00:46:20.200> people?<00:46:21.200> Well,<00:46:21.400> certainly<00:46:22.200> they're<00:46:23.000> real<00:46:23.599> experiences<00:46:24.400> for<00:46:24.880> for<00:46:25.079> the<00:46:25.280> person<00:46:25.680> themsel,<00:46:26.640> uh,

00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:36.040
as<00:46:27.160> you<00:46:27.319> said,<00:46:28.119> almost<00:46:29.119> always<00:46:30.119> the<00:46:30.440> experiencer<00:46:31.200> will<00:46:31.599> say<00:46:32.599> that<00:46:33.079> that<00:46:33.240> was<00:46:33.800> absolutely<00:46:34.839> real.<00:46:35.839> The

00:46:36.040 --> 00:46:44.960
question<00:46:36.440> of<00:46:37.240> whether<00:46:38.240> the<00:46:38.720> the<00:46:39.240> experience<00:46:39.839> can<00:46:40.440> be<00:46:41.440> confirmed<00:46:42.040> as<00:46:42.400> objectively<00:46:43.559> real,<00:46:44.559> um,

00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:53.720
is,<00:46:46.599> uh,<00:46:47.599> more<00:46:48.280> challenging.<00:46:49.280> And<00:46:50.200> you<00:46:50.319> know,<00:46:50.520> we<00:46:50.720> haven't,<00:46:51.559> uh,<00:46:51.720> I<00:46:51.839> have<00:46:52.160> a<00:46:52.400> a<00:46:52.559> friend<00:46:53.040> who

00:46:53.720 --> 00:47:02.920
a<00:46:54.000> colleague<00:46:54.640> friend<00:46:55.160> who<00:46:55.720> says,<00:46:56.240> "Oh,<00:46:56.440> well,<00:46:56.559> we<00:46:56.920> should<00:46:57.200> use<00:46:58.720> IADC<00:46:59.720> to<00:47:00.079> get<00:47:00.640> evidential<00:47:01.440> after-death<00:47:02.160> communication,"

00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:12.119
you<00:47:03.079> know,<00:47:03.280> like<00:47:03.559> ask<00:47:03.880> the<00:47:04.480> client<00:47:05.480> to,<00:47:06.400> um,<00:47:06.640> or<00:47:06.920> ask<00:47:07.319> the<00:47:07.520> the<00:47:07.720> client's<00:47:08.200> deceased<00:47:08.720> loved<00:47:09.040> one<00:47:09.559> to<00:47:10.559> present<00:47:11.400> information

00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:20.400
to<00:47:12.359> the<00:47:12.599> client<00:47:13.200> that<00:47:13.440> would<00:47:13.760> be,<00:47:14.559> um,<00:47:14.760> could<00:47:14.960> be<00:47:15.119> checked<00:47:15.520> out,<00:47:15.920> you<00:47:16.079> know,<00:47:16.640> as<00:47:17.839> objectively<00:47:18.880> making<00:47:19.880> making<00:47:20.200> the

00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:28.839
case<00:47:20.640> that<00:47:21.040> the<00:47:21.319> the<00:47:21.480> experience<00:47:21.960> is<00:47:22.280> objectively<00:47:23.079> real.<00:47:24.359> And<00:47:25.359> my<00:47:25.680> problem<00:47:26.040> with<00:47:26.200> that<00:47:26.400> is<00:47:26.520> that's<00:47:27.119> not<00:47:27.440> what<00:47:27.599> we're<00:47:27.839> there<00:47:28.040> for<00:47:28.440> in

00:47:28.839 --> 00:47:37.040
in<00:47:29.520> counseling,<00:47:30.520> um.<00:47:30.800> We<00:47:31.040> might<00:47:32.000> it<00:47:32.160> might<00:47:32.400> be<00:47:32.720> possible<00:47:33.119> to<00:47:33.319> do<00:47:33.599> something<00:47:34.000> like<00:47:34.240> that<00:47:34.520> in<00:47:34.680> a<00:47:35.160> in<00:47:35.319> a<00:47:35.880> research<00:47:36.440> study,<00:47:36.839> but

00:47:37.040 --> 00:47:45.800
not<00:47:37.240> with<00:47:37.440> grieving<00:47:38.960> people.<00:47:39.960> But<00:47:40.400> to<00:47:40.640> my<00:47:40.960> knowledge,<00:47:41.960> that<00:47:42.480> has<00:47:42.680> not<00:47:43.000> been<00:47:43.240> done,<00:47:43.559> at<00:47:43.720> least<00:47:43.960> not<00:47:44.240> with,<00:47:44.800> um,<00:47:45.599> like

00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:54.559
an<00:47:46.119> IADC<00:47:47.079> type<00:47:47.280> of<00:47:47.680> approach.<00:47:48.680> Yeah,<00:47:49.359> and<00:47:49.480> it<00:47:49.640> could<00:47:49.800> be<00:47:50.000> simple<00:47:50.359> enough<00:47:50.559> in<00:47:50.680> a<00:47:50.880> research<00:47:52.160> study<00:47:53.160> such<00:47:53.359> as<00:47:53.640> that<00:47:54.400> where

00:47:54.559 --> 00:48:03.800
it's<00:47:54.839> designed<00:47:55.440> to<00:47:55.760> simply<00:47:56.119> maybe<00:47:56.359> even<00:47:56.559> ask<00:47:56.880> ask<00:47:57.280> the<00:47:58.240> deceased,<00:47:59.240> "Right,<00:47:59.480> can<00:47:59.640> you<00:47:59.839> offer<00:48:00.240> information<00:48:01.160> that<00:48:01.359> would<00:48:02.800> verify

00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:12.319
the<00:48:04.599> veracity<00:48:05.240> of<00:48:05.440> this?"<00:48:05.839> Yeah,<00:48:06.400> exactly,<00:48:07.359> exactly.<00:48:08.319> Yeah.<00:48:08.920> You<00:48:09.280> led<00:48:09.800> a<00:48:10.040> wonderful<00:48:10.559> study,<00:48:11.079> "Comparative<00:48:11.760> Effects<00:48:12.119> of

00:48:12.319 --> 00:48:22.359
Induced<00:48:12.880> After-Death<00:48:13.400> Communication<00:48:14.079> and<00:48:14.240> Traditional<00:48:14.800> Counseling<00:48:15.319> on<00:48:16.079> Grief."<00:48:17.079> Can<00:48:17.200> you<00:48:18.200> share<00:48:19.200> how<00:48:19.520> that<00:48:19.720> study<00:48:20.040> is<00:48:21.359> significant

00:48:22.359 --> 00:48:31.599
and<00:48:22.559> it<00:48:22.720> related<00:48:23.160> to<00:48:23.680> helping<00:48:24.040> people<00:48:24.359> heal<00:48:24.720> from<00:48:25.079> grief,<00:48:26.079> how<00:48:26.319> grief<00:48:26.839> therapy<00:48:27.319> is<00:48:27.800> delivered,<00:48:28.800> and<00:48:29.240> how<00:48:29.599> it<00:48:30.200> even<00:48:31.200> shows

00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:40.000
that<00:48:31.800> it<00:48:31.960> can<00:48:32.599> improve<00:48:33.599> people's<00:48:34.400> relationship<00:48:35.079> with<00:48:35.240> their<00:48:36.079> past<00:48:36.400> loved<00:48:36.680> ones<00:48:37.359> and<00:48:37.520> their<00:48:37.720> healing<00:48:38.760> process?<00:48:39.760> You

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:49.720
bet.<00:48:40.920> Well,<00:48:41.280> in<00:48:41.520> traditional<00:48:42.119> grief<00:48:43.079> counseling,<00:48:44.079> there's<00:48:45.280> usually,<00:48:46.280> uh,<00:48:46.720> there<00:48:47.000> there<00:48:47.119> are,<00:48:47.800> uh,<00:48:47.960> for<00:48:48.720> example,

00:48:49.720 --> 00:48:57.960
um,<00:48:50.079> stages<00:48:50.520> of<00:48:51.400> grieving,<00:48:52.400> uh,<00:48:53.240> that<00:48:54.240> a<00:48:54.480> counselor<00:48:55.119> can<00:48:55.599> help<00:48:56.040> a<00:48:56.280> client,<00:48:57.720> um,

00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:06.559
move<00:48:58.880> through.<00:49:00.359> And<00:49:01.359> the<00:49:01.880> the<00:49:02.119> research<00:49:02.559> on<00:49:02.880> grief<00:49:03.720> counseling,<00:49:04.720> uh,<00:49:05.160> just<00:49:06.000> regular

00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:16.079
traditional<00:49:07.119> grief<00:49:07.520> counseling<00:49:08.520> has<00:49:08.960> been<00:49:10.119> not,<00:49:11.119> uh,<00:49:11.359> dramatic,<00:49:12.359> meaning<00:49:13.319> that<00:49:15.079> probably

00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:24.520
the<00:49:16.656> the<00:49:17.233> conclusion<00:49:17.811> that<00:49:18.388> the<00:49:18.965> researchers<00:49:19.542> who've<00:49:20.120> compared<00:49:20.697> like<00:49:21.274> all<00:49:21.851> the<00:49:22.428> studies<00:49:23.006> of<00:49:23.583> traditional<00:49:24.160> grief

00:49:24.520 --> 00:49:33.160
counseling<00:49:24.960> have<00:49:25.160> come<00:49:25.359> to<00:49:26.280> is<00:49:26.599> that<00:49:26.799> that,<00:49:27.280> um,<00:49:28.119> especially<00:49:28.520> for<00:49:28.839> people<00:49:29.119> who<00:49:29.359> have<00:49:29.760> complicated<00:49:30.599> grief,<00:49:31.520> or<00:49:31.799> what's<00:49:32.040> now<00:49:32.280> called<00:49:32.640> prolonged

00:49:33.160 --> 00:49:41.559
grief<00:49:34.240> disorder,<00:49:35.240> traditional<00:49:35.760> grief<00:49:36.119> counseling<00:49:37.119> is,<00:49:38.040> uh,<00:49:38.240> can<00:49:38.520> can<00:49:38.720> be<00:49:39.480> helpful.<00:49:40.480> But<00:49:40.960> for<00:49:41.240> people

00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:50.200
who<00:49:41.720> are<00:49:41.960> just<00:49:42.280> normal<00:49:43.040> normally<00:49:43.520> grieving,<00:49:44.119> and<00:49:44.359> and<00:49:44.559> grief<00:49:44.960> is<00:49:45.480> normal<00:49:46.480> for<00:49:46.839> anybody<00:49:47.359> who<00:49:47.640> has<00:49:47.839> an<00:49:48.079> emotional<00:49:48.839> loss,<00:49:49.839> um,

00:49:50.200 --> 00:49:59.839
it<00:49:50.440> probably<00:49:51.400> isn't<00:49:52.359> particularly<00:49:53.359> helpful,<00:49:54.359> um,<00:49:55.200> not<00:49:56.079> harmful,<00:49:57.000> but<00:49:57.400> not<00:49:57.760> particularly<00:49:58.839> helpful.

00:49:59.839 --> 00:50:09.000
So<00:50:00.760> what<00:50:01.240> we<00:50:01.480> did,<00:50:02.359> uh,<00:50:02.559> my<00:50:02.799> research<00:50:03.280> team<00:50:03.599> and<00:50:03.799> I,<00:50:04.319> uh,<00:50:04.440> at<00:50:04.680> the<00:50:04.760> University<00:50:05.240> of<00:50:05.319> North<00:50:05.720> Texas,<00:50:06.720> is<00:50:07.079> a<00:50:07.359> study<00:50:08.000> comparing

00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:17.599
traditional<00:50:09.559> grief<00:50:10.000> counseling<00:50:10.720> with<00:50:11.680> IADC.<00:50:12.680> So<00:50:13.240> we<00:50:14.240> got<00:50:14.720> volunteers<00:50:15.599> who<00:50:15.799> were<00:50:16.280> actively<00:50:16.760> grieving<00:50:17.440> the

00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:27.200
loss<00:50:17.880> of<00:50:18.000> a<00:50:18.160> loved<00:50:18.440> one.<00:50:19.400> We<00:50:19.680> randomly<00:50:20.359> assigned<00:50:20.880> them<00:50:21.160> to<00:50:21.839> either<00:50:22.200> traditional<00:50:22.760> grief<00:50:23.160> counseling<00:50:23.760> or<00:50:24.960> IADC,<00:50:25.960> and

00:50:27.200 --> 00:50:35.839
they<00:50:27.400> came<00:50:27.680> on<00:50:27.960> two<00:50:28.359> consecutive<00:50:29.400> Saturdays.<00:50:30.400> The<00:50:30.559> first<00:50:30.920> Saturday<00:50:31.680> when<00:50:31.880> they<00:50:32.040> came<00:50:32.280> in,<00:50:32.680> they<00:50:32.839> filled<00:50:33.240> out<00:50:33.440> a<00:50:33.559> bunch<00:50:33.839> of,<00:50:34.520> uh,<00:50:35.000> questions<00:50:35.559> about

00:50:35.839 --> 00:50:44.200
their<00:50:36.240> grief,<00:50:37.240> and<00:50:37.400> then<00:50:37.559> they<00:50:37.680> went<00:50:37.920> into<00:50:38.280> their<00:50:38.680> 90-minute<00:50:39.680> session,<00:50:40.680> whether<00:50:41.000> it<00:50:41.160> was<00:50:41.520> IADC<00:50:42.319> or<00:50:42.920> traditional,<00:50:43.920> and

00:50:44.200 --> 00:50:53.000
did<00:50:44.440> their<00:50:44.720> session,<00:50:45.720> and<00:50:45.960> then,<00:50:46.680> uh,<00:50:46.880> came<00:50:47.160> back<00:50:47.440> a<00:50:47.599> week<00:50:48.160> later<00:50:49.160> and<00:50:49.559> did<00:50:49.799> their<00:50:50.040> second<00:50:50.359> session<00:50:50.880> in<00:50:51.000> the<00:50:51.200> same<00:50:51.839> modality,<00:50:52.839> and

00:50:53.000 --> 00:51:02.119
then<00:50:53.160> filled<00:50:53.559> out<00:50:53.880> their<00:50:54.319> the<00:50:54.720> same<00:50:55.079> questions<00:50:55.559> about<00:50:55.839> their<00:50:56.040> grief.<00:50:57.240> What<00:50:57.440> we<00:50:57.839> found<00:50:58.839> was<00:50:59.359> that<00:51:00.319> IADC<00:51:01.319> was

00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:10.359
significantly<00:51:03.119> more<00:51:03.480> effective<00:51:04.280> in<00:51:04.599> reducing<00:51:05.400> painful<00:51:05.880> grief<00:51:06.960> symptoms.<00:51:07.960> And<00:51:09.119> that<00:51:10.119> not

00:51:10.359 --> 00:51:18.599
only<00:51:10.880> statistically<00:51:11.760> significant,<00:51:12.480> but<00:51:12.799> in<00:51:13.200> research<00:51:13.880> there's<00:51:14.640> there<00:51:14.760> are<00:51:14.960> two<00:51:15.240> kinds<00:51:15.480> of<00:51:15.760> significance.<00:51:16.440> One<00:51:16.599> is<00:51:17.000> statistical,<00:51:18.000> and<00:51:18.160> that's<00:51:18.440> just

00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:27.000
to<00:51:18.839> say<00:51:19.240> that<00:51:20.240> these<00:51:20.920> these<00:51:21.200> results<00:51:21.599> weren't<00:51:22.000> just<00:51:22.240> by<00:51:22.520> chance,<00:51:23.440> you<00:51:23.599> know,<00:51:24.119> that<00:51:25.119> that<00:51:26.040> the<00:51:26.240> chance<00:51:26.799> es

00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:36.160
of<00:51:27.359> this<00:51:28.079> kind<00:51:28.280> of<00:51:28.640> change<00:51:29.319> happening<00:51:30.319> are,<00:51:31.160> you<00:51:31.319> know,<00:51:31.640> off<00:51:31.880> the<00:51:32.400> charts.<00:51:33.400> And<00:51:33.559> so<00:51:33.799> it<00:51:33.920> isn't<00:51:34.280> just<00:51:34.440> a<00:51:35.160> coincidence,

00:51:36.160 --> 00:51:45.119
but<00:51:36.559> there's<00:51:37.240> another,<00:51:38.240> uh,<00:51:39.240> factor<00:51:40.640> called<00:51:41.960> effect,<00:51:42.960> and<00:51:43.160> that<00:51:43.319> means<00:51:44.040> how<00:51:44.880> how

00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:54.839
clinically<00:51:45.799> effective<00:51:46.280> is<00:51:46.400> it?<00:51:46.640> So<00:51:46.839> let<00:51:46.960> me<00:51:47.280> just<00:51:47.520> divert<00:51:47.880> for<00:51:48.079> a<00:51:48.280> second,<00:51:49.040> um,<00:51:49.920> to<00:51:50.160> explain<00:51:50.640> the<00:51:50.839> difference.<00:51:51.680> If<00:51:51.799> you're<00:51:52.000> doing<00:51:52.280> a<00:51:52.520> study<00:51:53.040> on,<00:51:53.839> um,

00:51:54.839 --> 00:52:03.720
reducing<00:51:55.760> cigarette<00:51:57.160> smoking,<00:51:58.160> and<00:51:58.599> your<00:51:59.240> people<00:51:59.839> in<00:51:59.960> the<00:52:00.119> beginning<00:52:00.520> of<00:52:00.760> this<00:52:01.040> of<00:52:01.200> the<00:52:01.359> study<00:52:01.680> are<00:52:01.960> on<00:52:02.319> average<00:52:02.760> smoking<00:52:03.280> 20

00:52:03.720 --> 00:52:12.280
cigarettes<00:52:04.200> a<00:52:04.520> day,<00:52:05.520> and<00:52:05.640> then<00:52:05.799> they<00:52:06.000> go<00:52:06.359> and<00:52:06.480> then<00:52:06.760> half<00:52:06.960> of<00:52:07.119> them<00:52:07.319> go<00:52:07.640> through,<00:52:08.440> uh,<00:52:08.640> some<00:52:08.920> kind<00:52:09.040> of<00:52:09.319> program<00:52:09.760> to<00:52:09.960> try<00:52:10.160> to<00:52:10.960> reduce,<00:52:11.960> and

00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:20.480
at<00:52:12.559> the<00:52:12.920> end,<00:52:13.920> the<00:52:14.119> people<00:52:14.400> who<00:52:14.599> went<00:52:14.799> through<00:52:15.079> that<00:52:15.480> program<00:52:16.480> are<00:52:16.920> now<00:52:17.200> smoking<00:52:17.920> 16<00:52:18.599> cigarettes<00:52:19.119> a<00:52:19.319> day,<00:52:19.960> and<00:52:20.240> and<00:52:20.359> the

00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:29.440
others<00:52:20.760> are<00:52:20.960> still<00:52:21.200> smoking<00:52:21.839> 20.<00:52:22.839> That's<00:52:23.200> statistically<00:52:24.760> significant,<00:52:25.760> but<00:52:26.200> in<00:52:26.599> terms<00:52:26.839> of<00:52:27.040> the<00:52:27.319> clinical<00:52:28.240> effect,<00:52:29.240> does

00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:38.520
it<00:52:29.680> really<00:52:29.960> matter<00:52:30.319> if<00:52:30.440> you're<00:52:30.640> smoking<00:52:31.160> 20<00:52:31.559> or<00:52:31.920> 16?<00:52:32.920> You<00:52:33.079> know,<00:52:33.319> you're<00:52:33.559> still<00:52:34.200> at<00:52:34.599> high<00:52:34.880> risk<00:52:35.160> for<00:52:35.400> getting<00:52:35.839> cancer.<00:52:36.799> So<00:52:37.040> it<00:52:37.200> can<00:52:37.359> be<00:52:37.640> statistically

00:52:38.520 --> 00:52:47.280
significant<00:52:39.440> but<00:52:39.640> not<00:52:40.040> clinically<00:52:41.040> significant.<00:52:42.040> What<00:52:42.200> we<00:52:42.359> found<00:52:42.680> in<00:52:42.799> our<00:52:43.079> study<00:52:43.920> was<00:52:44.119> it<00:52:44.280> was<00:52:44.520> not<00:52:44.720> only<00:52:45.160> statistically<00:52:45.960> significant<00:52:46.720> but

00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:57.119
clinically<00:52:47.920> significant<00:52:48.720> with<00:52:48.960> what's<00:52:49.200> called<00:52:49.480> a<00:52:49.720> large<00:52:50.720> effect<00:52:51.720> and<00:52:51.960> that<00:52:52.119> means<00:52:52.760> it<00:52:52.920> was<00:52:53.400> hugely<00:52:54.240> clinically<00:52:55.240> significant<00:52:56.720> people

00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:06.280
were<00:52:57.669> profoundly<00:52:58.219> changed<00:52:58.769> by<00:52:59.319> this<00:52:59.869> by<00:53:00.419> two<00:53:00.969> 90-minute<00:53:01.520> sessions<00:53:02.070> it<00:53:02.620> was<00:53:03.170> just<00:53:03.720> really<00:53:04.270> kind<00:53:04.820> of<00:53:05.370> amazing<00:53:05.920> but

00:53:06.280 --> 00:53:14.720
we<00:53:06.559> sort<00:53:06.839> of<00:53:07.559> expected<00:53:08.079> it<00:53:08.400> because<00:53:08.760> of<00:53:08.960> the<00:53:09.160> things<00:53:09.599> people<00:53:09.920> said<00:53:10.359> as<00:53:10.520> they<00:53:10.640> were<00:53:11.000> exiting<00:53:11.799> the<00:53:12.000> IADC<00:53:12.880> people<00:53:13.240> as<00:53:13.359> they<00:53:13.480> were<00:53:13.799> exiting<00:53:14.480> not

00:53:14.720 --> 00:53:21.680
the<00:53:14.960> traditional<00:53:15.599> people<00:53:16.240> right<00:53:16.359> because<00:53:16.520> there<00:53:16.640> were<00:53:16.960> because<00:53:17.200> there<00:53:17.280> were<00:53:17.480> two<00:53:17.760> groups<00:53:18.160> you<00:53:18.319> had<00:53:18.480> a<00:53:19.119> groups<00:53:19.520> like<00:53:19.640> a<00:53:19.880> control<00:53:20.319> group<00:53:20.720> that<00:53:20.839> was<00:53:21.000> just<00:53:21.119> doing<00:53:21.359> this

00:53:21.680 --> 00:53:30.160
regular<00:53:22.400> grief<00:53:22.880> therapy<00:53:23.520> and<00:53:23.640> then<00:53:23.880> yours<00:53:24.240> was<00:53:24.520> the<00:53:24.720> IADC<00:53:25.480> group<00:53:26.119> and<00:53:26.640> what<00:53:26.760> I'll<00:53:26.960> say<00:53:27.200> is<00:53:27.599> those<00:53:28.200> uh<00:53:28.400> the<00:53:28.640> traditional<00:53:29.400> people<00:53:29.680> showed

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the<01:08:08.559> person<01:08:09.559> um<01:08:10.520> so<01:08:10.799> it<01:08:10.920> can<01:08:11.119> just<01:08:11.279> take<01:08:11.640> different<01:08:12.079> forms<01:08:13.079> one<01:08:13.279> thing<01:08:13.480> that<01:08:13.640> might<01:08:13.799> be<01:08:13.960> worth<01:08:14.279> mentioning<01:08:14.880> too<01:08:15.279> is<01:08:15.520> that<01:08:16.080> uh

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take<01:09:51.199> the<01:09:51.319> dogs<01:09:51.560> for<01:09:51.799> walks<01:09:52.159> and<01:09:52.319> do<01:09:52.560> stuff<01:09:53.040> together<01:09:53.359> and<01:09:53.640> I<01:09:53.759> love<01:09:54.040> these<01:09:54.279> dogs<01:09:54.840> and<01:09:54.960> he<01:09:55.080> said<01:09:55.679> those<01:09:55.920> dogs<01:09:56.239> have<01:09:56.440> all<01:09:56.800> passed<01:09:57.800> in<01:09:58.360> during<01:09:58.840> since<01:09:59.159> this

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time<01:09:59.760> too<01:10:00.760> and<01:10:00.880> he<01:10:01.000> said<01:10:01.239> what<01:10:01.360> was<01:10:01.600> happening<01:10:02.040> is<01:10:02.480> the<01:10:02.640> dogs<01:10:02.920> were<01:10:03.199> jumping<01:10:03.679> on<01:10:03.920> me<01:10:04.400> at<01:10:04.560> the<01:10:04.719> beginning<01:10:05.719> and<01:10:05.880> I<01:10:06.000> didn't<01:10:06.360> realize<01:10:06.840> that's<01:10:07.080> what<01:10:07.239> was<01:10:07.440> happening

01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:16.760
it<01:10:07.960> just<01:10:08.080> felt<01:10:08.360> like<01:10:08.520> they<01:10:08.640> were<01:10:08.880> clawing<01:10:09.360> at<01:10:09.560> me<01:10:10.360> but<01:10:10.640> but<01:10:10.760> he<01:10:10.840> said<01:10:11.040> they<01:10:11.120> were<01:10:11.360> jumping<01:10:11.679> on<01:10:11.880> me<01:10:12.080> and<01:10:12.239> you<01:10:12.360> know<01:10:12.520> all<01:10:12.880> excited<01:10:13.840> and<01:10:14.000> then<01:10:14.320> behind<01:10:14.800> them<01:10:15.280> was<01:10:15.520> my<01:10:15.760> buddy

01:10:16.760 --> 01:10:25.480
Also,<01:10:17.433> even<01:10:18.107> experiences<01:10:18.780> that<01:10:19.453> seem<01:10:20.127> distressing<01:10:20.800> at<01:10:21.473> the<01:10:22.147> beginning,<01:10:22.820> if<01:10:23.493> you<01:10:24.167> trust<01:10:24.840> the

01:10:25.480 --> 01:10:34.080
process<01:10:26.480> and<01:10:26.679> stay<01:10:27.120> with<01:10:27.320> it<01:10:27.800> and<01:10:28.000> remember<01:10:28.480> that<01:10:28.600> it<01:10:28.760> is<01:10:29.080> just<01:10:30.040> imagery,<01:10:31.040> um,<01:10:31.560> then<01:10:32.040> it<01:10:32.199> can<01:10:32.440> turn<01:10:32.960> pleasurable<01:10:33.880> and

01:10:34.080 --> 01:10:42.880
be,<01:10:34.590> uh,<01:10:35.100> end<01:10:35.610> up<01:10:36.120> having<01:10:36.630> the<01:10:37.140> benefits<01:10:37.650> that<01:10:38.160> we<01:10:38.669> know<01:10:39.179> IADC<01:10:39.689> brings<01:10:40.199> about.<01:10:40.709> How<01:10:41.219> important<01:10:41.729> is<01:10:42.239> intention

01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:52.280
in<01:10:43.120> having<01:10:43.360> an<01:10:43.520> induced<01:10:43.960> after-death<01:10:45.360> communication<01:10:46.360> in<01:10:46.520> the<01:10:46.800> very<01:10:47.199> broadest<01:10:48.159> sense?<01:10:49.159> The,<01:10:49.760> and,<01:10:50.080> and<01:10:50.400> even<01:10:50.840> intention<01:10:51.840> for

01:10:52.280 --> 01:11:01.080
it<01:10:52.719> is<01:10:53.000> too<01:10:53.960> directive<01:10:54.560> of<01:10:54.719> a<01:10:54.880> word,<01:10:56.159> so,<01:10:57.120> uh,<01:10:58.400> um,<01:10:59.560> invitation,<01:11:00.560> having

01:11:01.080 --> 01:11:09.800
a,<01:11:02.080> like<01:11:02.360> a,<01:11:02.640> a<01:11:02.880> wish,<01:11:03.560> an<01:11:04.679> invitation,<01:11:05.679> um,<01:11:06.400> is<01:11:07.080> helpful.<01:11:07.920> It's<01:11:08.120> not<01:11:08.600> necessary,<01:11:09.600> but

01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:18.520
I<01:11:09.920> think<01:11:10.280> it's<01:11:10.840> helpful,<01:11:12.040> and,<01:11:13.040> and,<01:11:14.000> and<01:11:14.199> I<01:11:14.280> would<01:11:14.480> say<01:11:14.840> letting<01:11:15.320> go<01:11:15.600> of<01:11:15.960> any<01:11:16.400> particular<01:11:17.360> intention,<01:11:18.360> you

01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:27.360
know,<01:11:19.120> is<01:11:19.400> probably<01:11:19.760> really<01:11:20.520> helpful.<01:11:21.520> What<01:11:21.640> would<01:11:21.800> you<01:11:22.000> say<01:11:22.239> to<01:11:22.520> someone<01:11:22.880> who<01:11:23.040> may<01:11:23.239> be<01:11:23.480> listening,<01:11:24.360> thinking,<01:11:25.040> "Well,<01:11:25.360> well,<01:11:26.080> these<01:11:26.239> are<01:11:26.520> just

01:11:27.360 --> 01:11:37.120
people's<01:11:28.199> imaginations<01:11:29.199> making<01:11:29.760> this<01:11:30.000> up<01:11:30.280> for<01:11:30.480> them<01:11:30.679> to<01:11:30.960> have<01:11:31.120> an<01:11:31.400> experience<01:11:32.040> so<01:11:32.199> that<01:11:32.360> they<01:11:32.480> can<01:11:32.679> feel<01:11:33.719> better"?<01:11:36.120> Okay,

01:11:37.120 --> 01:11:45.480
I<01:11:37.199> mean,<01:11:37.520> if<01:11:37.639> you<01:11:37.800> want<01:11:38.000> to<01:11:38.239> believe<01:11:38.679> that,<01:11:39.000> that's<01:11:39.320> fine,<01:11:40.159> um,<01:11:40.719> it's<01:11:41.000> just<01:11:41.400> that<01:11:42.239> that's<01:11:42.440> not<01:11:42.679> what<01:11:42.840> the<01:11:43.000> people<01:11:43.320> will<01:11:43.560> say.<01:11:44.040> You<01:11:44.320> know,<01:11:45.320> a

01:11:45.480 --> 01:11:54.360
couple<01:11:45.719> of<01:11:45.840> months<01:11:46.120> after<01:11:46.360> the<01:11:46.560> study<01:11:46.920> was<01:11:47.199> over,<01:11:48.199> uh,<01:11:48.480> one<01:11:48.639> of<01:11:48.800> the<01:11:48.960> people,<01:11:49.520> one<01:11:49.679> of<01:11:49.800> the,<01:11:50.440> the<01:11:50.760> subjects<01:11:51.400> from<01:11:51.639> my<01:11:51.920> IADC<01:11:52.719> group,<01:11:53.400> uh,<01:11:54.120> came

01:11:54.360 --> 01:12:03.400
up<01:11:54.772> to<01:11:55.184> me<01:11:55.596> in<01:11:56.008> a<01:11:56.420> grocery<01:11:56.832> store<01:11:57.244> and<01:11:57.656> said,<01:11:58.068> "I<01:11:58.480> don't<01:11:58.892> know<01:11:59.304> if<01:11:59.716> you<01:12:00.128> have<01:12:00.540> any<01:12:00.952> idea<01:12:01.364> how<01:12:01.776> life-changing<01:12:02.188> that<01:12:02.600> experience

01:12:03.400 --> 01:12:12.840
was."<01:12:04.280> She<01:12:04.480> said,<01:12:04.920> "Since<01:12:05.760> that,<01:12:06.080> before<01:12:06.440> that,<01:12:06.639> I<01:12:06.800> never<01:12:07.120> had<01:12:07.400> contact<01:12:07.880> with<01:12:08.040> my<01:12:08.199> deceased<01:12:08.719> loved<01:12:09.000> one.<01:12:09.760> Since<01:12:10.080> then,<01:12:10.360> I've<01:12:10.600> had<01:12:10.800> multiple<01:12:11.840> contacts

01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:21.960
and<01:12:13.560> my<01:12:14.000> life<01:12:14.760> has<01:12:15.400> changed,"<01:12:16.400> and<01:12:16.560> she<01:12:16.840> just<01:12:17.040> seemed<01:12:17.560> so<01:12:17.840> much<01:12:18.120> lighter<01:12:18.800> and<01:12:19.440> so<01:12:19.760> forth,<01:12:20.639> um,<01:12:21.239> so

01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:30.880
you<01:12:22.080> know,<01:12:22.400> I<01:12:22.560> think<01:12:23.520> it,<01:12:24.440> you<01:12:24.639> mentioned<01:12:25.320> earlier<01:12:26.679> that<01:12:27.679> doing<01:12:28.280> is<01:12:28.560> believing,<01:12:29.400> experiencing<01:12:30.360> is

01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:39.600
believing,<01:12:31.880> and,<01:12:32.560> um,<01:12:33.239> if<01:12:33.520> one<01:12:33.800> has<01:12:34.000> not<01:12:34.360> had<01:12:34.719> experiences<01:12:35.440> like<01:12:35.679> this,<01:12:35.960> it<01:12:36.080> can<01:12:36.280> be<01:12:36.960> hard<01:12:37.199> to<01:12:37.480> imagine<01:12:38.239> and<01:12:38.520> easy<01:12:38.840> to<01:12:39.159> think

01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:48.040
that,<01:12:40.199> "Oh,<01:12:40.440> this<01:12:40.560> is<01:12:40.760> something<01:12:41.239> the<01:12:41.400> person's<01:12:41.840> just<01:12:42.040> making<01:12:42.480> up."<01:12:43.400> Um,<01:12:43.719> people<01:12:44.000> who've<01:12:44.320> had<01:12:44.520> the<01:12:45.040> experience<01:12:46.040> just<01:12:46.320> go,<01:12:46.880> you<01:12:47.040> know,<01:12:47.719> "Bless

01:12:48.040 --> 01:12:56.320
your<01:12:48.280> heart,<01:12:49.159> you,<01:12:50.159> I<01:12:50.639> understand<01:12:50.840> how<01:12:51.000> you<01:12:51.120> could<01:12:51.360> think<01:12:51.600> that<01:12:51.880> because<01:12:52.040> I<01:12:52.199> thought<01:12:52.480> that<01:12:52.639> at<01:12:52.800> one<01:12:53.040> time,<01:12:53.280> too."<01:12:54.000> Yeah,<01:12:54.400> yeah,<01:12:55.719> maybe<01:12:56.080> it's

01:12:56.320 --> 01:13:05.320
a<01:12:57.320> different<01:12:57.639> state<01:12:57.880> of<01:12:58.080> consciousness<01:12:58.800> that<01:12:59.159> allows<01:12:59.800> these<01:13:00.080> experiences<01:13:00.679> to<01:13:00.920> occur,<01:13:01.360> because<01:13:01.560> we<01:13:01.679> can<01:13:01.800> be<01:13:01.960> in<01:13:02.080> the<01:13:02.280> analytical,<01:13:03.159> judging,<01:13:03.639> questioning<01:13:04.320> mind,

01:13:05.320 --> 01:13:13.960
which,<01:13:05.560> for<01:13:05.800> my<01:13:06.360> understanding,<01:13:06.760> isn't<01:13:07.159> always<01:13:08.199> conducive<01:13:09.199> to<01:13:09.520> having<01:13:09.840> these<01:13:10.120> types<01:13:10.360> of<01:13:11.639> experiences.<01:13:12.639> Yeah,<01:13:12.960> that's<01:13:13.280> right,<01:13:13.679> that's

01:13:13.960 --> 01:13:22.639
right,<01:13:14.320> because<01:13:14.719> the<01:13:15.000> analytical<01:13:15.679> judging<01:13:16.440> is<01:13:17.320> a,<01:13:17.880> there's<01:13:18.080> a<01:13:18.360> distancing,<01:13:19.239> an<01:13:19.480> emotional<01:13:20.360> distancing,<01:13:21.360> as<01:13:21.560> opposed<01:13:22.080> to

01:13:22.639 --> 01:13:32.159
a<01:13:23.120> genuine<01:13:24.120> presence,<01:13:25.159> openness,<01:13:26.400> centeredness,<01:13:27.400> you<01:13:27.520> know,<01:13:27.880> that,<01:13:28.520> um,<01:13:28.840> seems<01:13:29.159> to<01:13:29.480> facilitate<01:13:30.159> the<01:13:31.159> experience.

01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:41.080
How<01:13:32.480> has<01:13:32.719> the<01:13:33.080> receptivity<01:13:34.239> been<01:13:35.239> in<01:13:35.880> the<01:13:36.199> community<01:13:37.120> of<01:13:37.400> mental<01:13:37.800> health<01:13:38.159> practitioners,<01:13:39.040> counselors,<01:13:39.560> and<01:13:39.800> psychologists<01:13:40.760> of

01:13:41.080 --> 01:13:51.199
your<01:13:42.320> study?<01:13:43.320> I<01:13:43.440> haven't<01:13:43.760> heard<01:13:44.199> much<01:13:44.440> feedback<01:13:44.920> about<01:13:45.159> the<01:13:45.360> study.<01:13:45.679> It's<01:13:45.960> actually<01:13:46.280> only<01:13:46.520> been<01:13:46.840> published<01:13:47.239> for<01:13:47.440> a<01:13:47.600> couple,<01:13:47.920> few<01:13:48.440> months,<01:13:49.440> um,

01:13:51.199 --> 01:13:59.560
so<01:13:52.199> we're<01:13:52.480> about<01:13:52.880> to<01:13:53.880> make<01:13:54.080> it<01:13:54.280> more<01:13:54.560> widely<01:13:55.280> known<01:13:56.280> through<01:13:56.679> the<01:13:57.120> magazine<01:13:57.920> of<01:13:58.080> the<01:13:58.239> International<01:13:58.880> Association<01:13:59.360> for

01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:08.239
Near-Death<01:14:00.080> Studies,<01:14:00.440> and<01:14:00.600> I<01:14:00.760> may<01:14:00.960> hear<01:14:01.360> more.<01:14:02.360> Certainly,<01:14:02.840> among<01:14:03.199> mental<01:14:03.600> health<01:14:04.040> professionals<01:14:04.920> learning<01:14:05.360> about<01:14:05.639> the<01:14:05.920> strategy,<01:14:06.760> a<01:14:06.880> lot<01:14:07.040> of<01:14:07.159> mental<01:14:07.440> health<01:14:07.719> professionals

01:14:08.239 --> 01:14:16.719
want<01:14:08.480> to<01:14:08.639> be<01:14:08.880> trained<01:14:09.280> in<01:14:09.480> it.<01:14:10.199> People<01:14:10.600> interested<01:14:11.320> in,<01:14:12.320> uh,<01:14:12.719> getting<01:14:13.159> trained<01:14:13.840> in<01:14:14.239> IADC<01:14:15.040> therapy,<01:14:15.800> uh,<01:14:16.000> for,<01:14:16.600> uh,

01:14:16.719 --> 01:14:25.960
can<01:14:17.466> go<01:14:18.212> to<01:14:18.959> the,<01:14:19.706> uh,<01:14:20.452> website<01:14:21.199> of<01:14:21.946> Al<01:14:22.692> Botkin's<01:14:23.439> organization.<01:14:24.186> It's<01:14:24.932> IADCtherapy.com,<01:14:25.679> and

01:14:25.960 --> 01:14:35.520
there's<01:14:26.159> a<01:14:26.480> tab<01:14:26.920> there<01:14:27.360> about<01:14:28.199> training,<01:14:29.199> and<01:14:30.120> there,<01:14:30.800> uh,<01:14:31.000> three<01:14:31.239> or<01:14:31.440> four<01:14:31.960> people<01:14:32.360> doing<01:14:32.719> the<01:14:33.040> training<01:14:34.040> now,

01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:44.520
and,<01:14:36.520> and<01:14:36.679> it's<01:14:37.000> usually<01:14:37.760> like<01:14:37.880> a<01:14:38.080> long<01:14:39.080> weekend<01:14:40.080> of,<01:14:40.719> uh,<01:14:41.080> work.<01:14:41.440> It's<01:14:41.639> not,<01:14:42.080> it's<01:14:42.239> not<01:14:42.520> really<01:14:43.520> intensive.

01:14:44.520 --> 01:14:53.400
However,<01:14:45.360> in<01:14:45.520> order<01:14:45.800> to<01:14:46.000> be<01:14:46.239> trained,<01:14:46.719> one<01:14:46.960> does<01:14:47.280> have<01:14:47.400> to<01:14:47.520> be<01:14:47.719> a<01:14:47.960> licensed<01:14:48.920> mental<01:14:49.320> health<01:14:49.760> professional.<01:14:50.719> It's<01:14:50.960> important<01:14:51.719> that<01:14:52.159> the<01:14:52.360> person<01:14:52.840> know

01:14:53.400 --> 01:15:01.600
how<01:14:53.719> to<01:14:54.719> work,<01:14:55.040> work<01:14:55.360> with<01:14:55.840> complications<01:14:56.760> that<01:14:56.920> can<01:14:57.199> arise,<01:14:58.199> and<01:14:58.480> complications<01:14:59.199> do<01:14:59.840> sometimes<01:15:00.280> arise.<01:15:00.800> We<01:15:00.920> found<01:15:01.199> this<01:15:01.400> even

01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:10.159
in<01:15:01.760> our<01:15:02.000> study,<01:15:03.159> that<01:15:04.159> people's<01:15:04.679> own,<01:15:05.600> like,<01:15:05.920> childhood<01:15:06.960> traumas<01:15:07.960> sometimes<01:15:08.520> get<01:15:08.920> activated<01:15:09.560> in<01:15:09.800> this

01:15:10.159 --> 01:15:19.080
process<01:15:10.560> of<01:15:11.000> exploration<01:15:11.679> of<01:15:12.320> relationship<01:15:13.320> with<01:15:13.520> the<01:15:13.719> deceased<01:15:14.239> loved<01:15:14.560> one,<01:15:15.159> and,<01:15:16.159> and<01:15:17.040> so<01:15:18.040> it<01:15:18.199> isn't

01:15:19.080 --> 01:15:28.159
for<01:15:19.465> a<01:15:19.849> layperson,<01:15:20.234> um,<01:15:20.619> to<01:15:21.004> do,<01:15:21.388> because<01:15:21.773> you<01:15:22.158> could<01:15:22.542> run<01:15:22.927> into<01:15:23.312> things<01:15:23.697> that<01:15:24.081> you<01:15:24.466> just<01:15:24.851> don't<01:15:25.235> know<01:15:25.620> how<01:15:26.005> to<01:15:26.390> handle,<01:15:26.774> um,<01:15:27.159> so

01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:37.120
but<01:15:28.440> that,<01:15:28.960> uh,<01:15:29.199> that<01:15:29.360> training<01:15:29.760> is<01:15:29.960> available<01:15:30.600> there,<01:15:31.239> and<01:15:31.639> also<01:15:32.040> at<01:15:32.239> that<01:15:32.480> website,<01:15:33.040> for<01:15:33.600> people<01:15:34.120> interested<01:15:34.719> in<01:15:35.719> doing<01:15:36.280> IADC

01:15:37.120 --> 01:15:45.880
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01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:55.159
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01:15:55.159 --> 01:16:04.199
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01:16:04.199 --> 01:16:13.120
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01:16:13.120 --> 01:16:22.120
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01:16:22.120 --> 01:16:30.520
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01:16:30.520 --> 01:16:39.960
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01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:48.400
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01:16:48.400 --> 01:16:57.239
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01:16:57.239 --> 01:17:06.120
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01:17:06.120 --> 01:17:14.440
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01:17:14.440 --> 01:17:22.600
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01:17:22.600 --> 01:17:30.880
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01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:40.159
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01:17:40.159 --> 01:17:48.920
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01:17:48.920 --> 01:17:57.520
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01:17:57.520 --> 01:18:05.840
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01:18:05.840 --> 01:18:14.480
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01:18:14.480 --> 01:18:23.080
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01:18:23.080 --> 01:18:31.639
we'll<01:18:23.320> arrange<01:18:23.719> that<01:18:23.880> for<01:18:24.080> you."<01:18:24.480> That's,<01:18:25.280> yeah.<01:18:25.840> So<01:18:26.360> out<01:18:26.520> of<01:18:26.760> the<01:18:26.960> people<01:18:27.320> who<01:18:27.520> went<01:18:27.719> to<01:18:28.080> traditional<01:18:28.679> grief<01:18:29.239> counseling,<01:18:30.239> seven<01:18:30.600> of<01:18:30.840> them<01:18:31.320> wanted

01:18:31.639 --> 01:18:40.560
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01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:49.320
counseling.<01:18:41.560> So<01:18:41.840> what<01:18:42.000> that<01:18:42.199> says<01:18:42.600> is<01:18:43.159> traditional<01:18:43.679> grief<01:18:44.080> counseling<01:18:44.600> left<01:18:44.960> people<01:18:45.239> feeling<01:18:45.800> unfinished,<01:18:46.600> like<01:18:46.800> there<01:18:46.920> was<01:18:47.159> something<01:18:47.920> more,<01:18:48.920> and

01:18:49.320 --> 01:18:57.920
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01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:07.159
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01:19:07.159 --> 01:19:15.400
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01:19:15.400 --> 01:19:24.760
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01:19:24.760 --> 01:19:33.320
continues<01:19:26.600> to<01:19:27.600> be<01:19:27.920> there<01:19:28.560> and,<01:19:28.719> in<01:19:28.960> fact,<01:19:29.280> can<01:19:29.639> continue<01:19:30.040> to<01:19:30.280> grow<01:19:30.679> and<01:19:30.920> expand<01:19:31.639> and<01:19:31.800> get<01:19:32.040> bigger<01:19:32.560> and<01:19:32.760> bigger

01:19:33.320 --> 01:19:43.480
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01:19:43.480 --> 01:19:52.480
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01:19:52.480 --> 01:20:01.040
my<01:19:52.719> pleasure,<01:19:53.080> Emmy.<01:19:53.480> Thank<01:19:53.719> you.<01:19:55.040> And<01:19:55.199> for<01:19:55.400> those<01:19:55.560> of<01:19:55.719> you<01:19:55.960> watching<01:19:56.320> or<01:19:56.560> listening,<01:19:57.199> thank<01:19:57.520> you<01:19:57.800> for<01:19:58.040> being<01:19:58.360> with<01:19:58.600> us,<01:19:59.040> because<01:19:59.520> you<01:19:59.880> are<01:20:00.080> the<01:20:00.280> reason<01:20:00.880> that

01:20:01.040 --> 01:20:09.030
we<01:20:01.159> are<01:20:03.170> [Music]<01:20:05.600> [Applause]

01:20:09.030 --> 01:20:22.760
[Music]

01:20:22.760 --> 01:20:31.840
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01:20:31.840 --> 01:20:40.800
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01:20:40.800 --> 01:20:53.639
of<01:20:40.960> the<01:20:41.080> New<01:20:41.360> Thinking<01:20:41.760> Allowed<01:20:42.280> magazine,<01:20:42.920> or<01:20:43.159> order<01:20:43.560> a<01:20:43.760> beautiful<01:20:44.320> printed<01:20:44.880> copy.<01:20:45.760> Go<01:20:46.000> to<01:20:46.360> newthinking

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allowed.org