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# This One Discovery Proved the Afterlife Exists
- URL: https://famouspsychicmediums.com/episodes/this-one-discovery-proved-the-afterlife-exists/
- Published: 2026-09-22T16:00:20.000Z
- Updated: 2026-10-06T21:51:40.000Z
- Description: Can consciousness exist outside the physical body? Explore the mind-bending scientific evidence of veridical perception and the verified near-death cases that challenge everything we know about the brain.
- Author: Angie Li
- Tags: NDE, Science

For decades, the afterlife was considered a matter of faith rather than scientific proof. However, near-death studies have uncovered a phenomenon known as veridical perception, where individuals clinically dead or under deep anesthesia accurately describe physical events occurring around them or even miles away.

This episode explores the compelling case studies compiled in the book The Self Does Not Die. Host Matthew Thompson walks through remarkable accounts, including a patient who observed a surgeon's highly specific physical habit while under general anesthesia, and another who correctly identified a dusty 1985 quarter placed on top of an eight-foot-tall monitor.

By examining these cases side-by-side, the episode challenges the materialist view that consciousness is entirely produced by the brain. Instead, it suggests that the brain may act as a filter, and that consciousness can function independently of our physical bodies, pointing to the survival of the self after death.

### Key takeaways

- Veridical perception occurs when a person during a near-death experience accurately describes physical events that their incapacitated body had no way of perceiving.
- A meta-analysis by Dr. Jan Holden revealed that 92% of analyzed out-of-body perception reports were completely accurate.
- Numerous documented cases involve patients perceiving events beyond the physical reach of their senses, such as conversations in other rooms or specific actions taken by family members in hospital cafeterias.
- Extreme medical procedures, like Pam Reynolds' standstill surgery, demonstrate that clear, organized consciousness can persist even when brain activity is heavily suppressed or flatlined.
- The sheer volume of independent, verified cases makes conventional skeptical explanations—like guessing, hearing, or false memories—increasingly difficult to sustain as a single, simple answer.

### Highlights

- 0:00 — Introduction to Veridical Perception
- 1:19 — The 92% Accuracy Rate of Out-of-Body Experiences
- 10:32 — The Case of Al Sullivan and the Flapping Surgeon
- 19:53 — Perceiving Events Beyond the Physical Senses
- 32:09 — Pam Reynolds and the Standstill Operation
- 42:22 — Making Sense of Consciousness and the Brain

```chapters
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:19 92% Accurate (Clue 1)
00:10:32 From The Ceiling (Clue 2)
00:19:53 Beyond The Senses (Clue 3)
00:32:09 Eyes Closed & Ears Shut (Clue 4)
00:42:22 Making Sense Of It All
```

```vtt
WEBVTT

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Millions<00:04:28.160> of<00:04:28.400> people<00:04:28.800> have<00:04:29.120> described<00:04:29.600> some<00:04:29.919> version<00:04:30.160> of<00:04:30.400> it,<00:04:31.040> but<00:04:31.199> in<00:04:31.440> the<00:04:31.600> overwhelming<00:04:32.400> majority<00:04:32.880> of<00:04:33.040> those<00:04:33.280> cases,<00:04:34.080> there's<00:04:34.400> no<00:04:34.639> way<00:04:34.800> to<00:04:34.960> verify<00:04:35.520> what<00:04:35.840> they

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say<00:04:36.240> they<00:04:36.479> saw.<00:04:37.280> Maybe<00:04:37.520> the<00:04:37.759> experience<00:04:38.160> was<00:04:38.400> incredibly<00:04:38.960> vivid.

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Maybe<00:04:39.759> it<00:04:40.000> changed<00:04:40.400> their<00:04:40.639> life.<00:04:41.120> And<00:04:41.280> the<00:04:41.520> fact<00:04:41.600> that<00:04:41.840> the<00:04:42.080> same<00:04:42.400> basic<00:04:42.800> pattern<00:04:43.199> keeps<00:04:43.520> showing<00:04:43.759> up<00:04:44.080> qualifies<00:04:44.720> as<00:04:45.199> evidence<00:04:45.600> in<00:04:45.759> its<00:04:46.000> own<00:04:46.080> right.

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None<00:04:47.120> of<00:04:47.280> that<00:04:47.520> invalidates<00:04:48.320> the<00:04:48.639> experience.

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But<00:04:49.919> it<00:04:50.160> still<00:04:50.479> does<00:04:50.720> not<00:04:50.960> tell<00:04:51.120> us<00:04:51.280> whether<00:04:51.919> what<00:04:52.240> they<00:04:52.400> saw<00:04:52.720> in<00:04:52.880> the<00:04:53.120> physical<00:04:53.520> world<00:04:53.840> was<00:04:54.160> accurate.

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For<00:04:55.440> that,<00:04:55.680> you<00:04:55.919> need<00:04:56.000> an<00:04:56.240> eyewitness.<00:04:57.360> A<00:04:57.600> doctor<00:04:57.919> who<00:04:58.160> was<00:04:58.320> standing<00:04:58.639> in<00:04:58.800> the<00:04:58.960> operating<00:04:59.440> room,<00:05:00.160> a<00:05:00.320> nurse<00:05:00.639> who<00:05:00.880> performed<00:05:01.520> the<00:05:01.759> procedure,<00:05:02.320> maybe<00:05:02.560> even<00:05:02.880> a<00:05:03.199> paramedic

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at<00:05:04.080> the<00:05:04.240> crash<00:05:04.560> scene<00:05:04.880> or<00:05:05.680> a<00:05:06.000> family<00:05:06.240> member<00:05:06.639> somewhere<00:05:07.039> else<00:05:07.280> in<00:05:07.520> the<00:05:07.680> hospital,<00:05:08.479> sometimes<00:05:08.880> even<00:05:09.120> a<00:05:09.360> medical<00:05:09.759> record.

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So,<00:05:10.479> the<00:05:10.720> person<00:05:10.960> comes<00:05:11.280> back<00:05:11.520> and<00:05:11.759> describes<00:05:12.240> what<00:05:12.400> they<00:05:12.639> saw<00:05:13.199> and<00:05:13.440> then<00:05:13.600> the<00:05:13.840> witness<00:05:14.240> can<00:05:14.479> say,<00:05:15.360> "Yes,<00:05:16.400> that<00:05:16.639> is<00:05:16.960> that<00:05:17.199> is<00:05:17.360> what<00:05:17.600> happened."

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Yes,<00:05:18.639> that<00:05:19.039> that<00:05:19.360> is<00:05:19.520> where<00:05:19.759> I<00:05:20.000> was<00:05:20.160> standing.

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That<00:05:21.360> that's<00:05:21.680> what<00:05:22.000> was<00:05:22.240> said<00:05:23.120> and<00:05:23.520> the<00:05:23.840> object<00:05:24.160> was<00:05:24.479> there.

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So<00:05:25.919> someone<00:05:26.240> whose<00:05:26.800> knowledge<00:05:27.280> came<00:05:27.600> from<00:05:27.919> actually<00:05:28.479> being<00:05:28.960> there.

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And<00:05:30.160> when<00:05:30.320> you<00:05:30.479> picture<00:05:30.720> how<00:05:30.960> one<00:05:31.120> of<00:05:31.199> these<00:05:31.440> cases<00:05:32.000> actually<00:05:32.320> unfolds,<00:05:33.039> the<00:05:33.280> whole<00:05:33.520> thing<00:05:33.759> gets<00:05:34.080> even<00:05:34.639> stranger.

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Someone's<00:05:36.000> heart<00:05:36.240> stops.<00:05:36.800> There's<00:05:37.039> no<00:05:37.280> pulse,<00:05:37.680> no<00:05:37.919> circulation.

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The<00:05:39.120> medical<00:05:39.360> team<00:05:39.600> is<00:05:39.840> doing<00:05:40.080> everything<00:05:40.320> they<00:05:40.639> can<00:05:40.800> to<00:05:41.120> bring<00:05:41.280> them<00:05:41.520> back.

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And<00:05:42.320> somehow<00:05:42.720> they<00:05:43.039> do.<00:05:43.919> Then<00:05:44.240> maybe<00:05:44.479> the<00:05:44.720> person<00:05:45.039> wakes<00:05:45.280> up<00:05:45.520> and<00:05:45.759> immediately<00:05:46.400> blurts<00:05:46.880> out,<00:05:47.520> "I<00:05:47.840> saw<00:05:48.080> what<00:05:48.240> you<00:05:48.479> were<00:05:48.639> doing."

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Or<00:05:49.840> maybe<00:05:50.000> it<00:05:50.240> comes<00:05:50.400> up<00:05:50.800> days<00:05:51.120> later<00:05:51.440> in<00:05:51.680> a<00:05:51.840> completely<00:05:52.400> ordinary<00:05:53.039> conversation.

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They<00:05:54.240> mention<00:05:54.560> the<00:05:54.800> doctor<00:05:55.280> standing<00:05:55.680> in<00:05:55.919> the<00:05:56.080> hallway<00:05:56.960> or<00:05:57.199> the<00:05:57.360> nurse<00:05:57.680> who<00:05:58.000> dropped<00:05:58.400> something<00:05:59.199> or<00:05:59.520> the<00:05:59.680> conversation<00:06:00.479> happening<00:06:00.800> in<00:06:01.120> another<00:06:01.440> room.

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And<00:06:02.479> can<00:06:02.639> you<00:06:02.800> imagine<00:06:03.520> being<00:06:03.759> the<00:06:04.080> person<00:06:04.400> they<00:06:04.720> said<00:06:04.960> that<00:06:05.199> to?

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You<00:06:06.080> were<00:06:06.240> there.<00:06:06.960> You<00:06:07.120> know<00:06:07.360> their<00:06:07.520> eyes<00:06:07.759> were<00:06:08.000> closed.

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You<00:06:09.039> know<00:06:09.199> they<00:06:09.440> were<00:06:09.600> unconscious.<00:06:10.880> Maybe<00:06:11.120> you<00:06:11.280> were<00:06:11.360> the<00:06:11.520> one<00:06:11.919> trying<00:06:12.080> to<00:06:12.400> restart<00:06:12.880> their<00:06:13.120> heart.

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And<00:06:14.080> now<00:06:14.240> they're<00:06:14.479> describing<00:06:15.039> something<00:06:15.360> you<00:06:15.680> never<00:06:16.000> expected<00:06:16.479> them<00:06:16.639> to<00:06:16.880> know.

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That's<00:06:18.160> how<00:06:18.400> a<00:06:18.720> lot<00:06:18.800> of<00:06:18.880> these<00:06:19.199> cases<00:06:19.680> begin.

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Not<00:06:20.319> as<00:06:20.639> some<00:06:20.960> formal<00:06:21.600> experiment,<00:06:22.240> but<00:06:22.560> as<00:06:22.800> a<00:06:23.039> doctor,<00:06:23.759> nurse,<00:06:24.080> or<00:06:24.319> a<00:06:24.479> family<00:06:24.800> member<00:06:25.199> thinking,<00:06:26.080> wait,<00:06:26.479> how<00:06:26.720> could<00:06:26.960> you<00:06:27.600> possibly<00:06:28.319> know

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that?<00:06:28.939> And<00:06:29.318> over<00:06:29.697> time,<00:06:30.076> the<00:06:30.454> field<00:06:30.833> of<00:06:31.212> near-death<00:06:31.591> studies<00:06:31.970> has<00:06:32.349> become<00:06:32.728> large<00:06:33.107> enough<00:06:33.486> that<00:06:33.865> scientists<00:06:34.243> started<00:06:34.622> tracking<00:06:35.001> these<00:06:35.380> cases<00:06:35.759> down.

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They<00:06:36.720> would<00:06:36.880> interview<00:06:37.280> the<00:06:37.520> patient,<00:06:38.080> interview<00:06:38.479> the<00:06:38.720> people<00:06:38.960> who<00:06:39.199> were<00:06:39.360> there,<00:06:40.080> compare<00:06:40.479> their<00:06:40.800> accounts,<00:06:41.440> check<00:06:41.600> the<00:06:41.840> medical<00:06:42.160> record,<00:06:43.039> ask<00:06:43.360> when<00:06:43.600> the<00:06:43.840> detail

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was<00:06:44.479> first<00:06:44.880> reported,<00:06:45.440> who<00:06:45.680> could<00:06:45.840> have<00:06:46.000> known<00:06:46.160> it,<00:06:46.800> and<00:06:46.960> if<00:06:47.199> anyone<00:06:47.680> involved<00:06:48.240> had<00:06:48.560> spoken<00:06:48.880> to<00:06:49.039> each<00:06:49.280> other.

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And<00:06:50.319> when<00:06:50.560> those<00:06:50.800> pieces<00:06:51.360> start<00:06:51.759> lining<00:06:52.240> up,<00:06:52.960> a<00:06:53.280> private<00:06:53.840> experience<00:06:54.479> becomes<00:06:54.960> something<00:06:55.440> another<00:06:56.000> person<00:06:56.400> can<00:06:56.800> actually<00:06:57.600> investigate.

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And<00:06:59.360> once<00:06:59.759> researchers<00:07:00.319> started<00:07:00.720> collecting<00:07:01.120> these<00:07:01.440> cases,<00:07:02.080> the<00:07:02.400> results<00:07:02.720> were<00:07:02.960> honestly<00:07:03.680> kind<00:07:04.000> of<00:07:04.160> hard<00:07:04.479> to<00:07:04.720> believe.

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In<00:07:06.240> 2009,<00:07:06.880> Dr.<00:07:07.199> Jan<00:07:07.520> Holden,<00:07:08.160> one<00:07:08.319> of<00:07:08.400> the<00:07:08.639> leading<00:07:09.039> scientists<00:07:09.520> in<00:07:09.759> the<00:07:09.919> field,<00:07:10.639> went<00:07:10.880> back<00:07:11.199> through<00:07:11.680> published<00:07:12.160> reports<00:07:12.560> of<00:07:12.880> people<00:07:13.039> who<00:07:13.360> said<00:07:13.759> they<00:07:14.000> had

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perceived<00:07:14.960> the<00:07:15.280> physical<00:07:15.680> world<00:07:16.000> from<00:07:16.319> outside<00:07:16.639> their<00:07:16.960> bodies.

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These<00:07:18.240> were<00:07:18.479> cases<00:07:18.800> where<00:07:19.039> there<00:07:19.199> was<00:07:19.440> enough<00:07:19.759> information<00:07:20.160> to<00:07:20.479> ask<00:07:20.800> a<00:07:21.120> very<00:07:21.440> basic<00:07:22.000> question.

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Did<00:07:23.199> what<00:07:23.440> they<00:07:23.680> describe<00:07:24.720> actually<00:07:25.280> happen?

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And<00:07:26.800> 92%<00:07:28.160> of<00:07:28.319> the<00:07:28.560> reports<00:07:29.199> were<00:07:29.440> classified<00:07:30.000> as<00:07:30.319> completely<00:07:30.880> accurate.

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92%.<00:07:32.304> Another<00:07:32.850> 6%<00:07:33.395> contained<00:07:33.941> some<00:07:34.486> error<00:07:35.032> and<00:07:35.577> only<00:07:36.123> 1%<00:07:36.668> was<00:07:37.214> completely<00:07:37.759> wrong.

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Think<00:07:39.199> about<00:07:39.440> what<00:07:39.680> these<00:07:40.000> people<00:07:40.400> were<00:07:40.800> remembering.

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Where<00:07:42.319> someone<00:07:42.639> was<00:07:42.880> standing,<00:07:43.280> what<00:07:43.440> a<00:07:43.680> doctor<00:07:44.000> did<00:07:44.240> with<00:07:44.479> his<00:07:44.720> hands,<00:07:45.680> what<00:07:45.840> instrument<00:07:46.319> came<00:07:46.560> out,<00:07:47.120> what<00:07:47.360> happened<00:07:47.680> first<00:07:48.240> and<00:07:48.479> then<00:07:48.639> what<00:07:48.880> happened<00:07:49.280> next.

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Honestly,<00:07:50.400> I<00:07:50.639> could<00:07:50.800> be<00:07:50.960> fully<00:07:51.280> awake<00:07:51.680> in<00:07:51.919> a<00:07:52.160> hospital<00:07:52.479> room.

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And<00:07:53.120> if<00:07:53.360> you<00:07:53.520> ask<00:07:53.759> me<00:07:54.000> the<00:07:54.319> next<00:07:54.479> day<00:07:54.800> what<00:07:55.039> shoes<00:07:55.440> the<00:07:55.680> doctor<00:07:56.000> was<00:07:56.240> wearing,<00:07:56.800> I<00:07:57.039> would<00:07:57.280> probably<00:07:57.840> fail<00:07:58.560> miserably.

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But<00:08:00.240> people<00:08:00.479> who<00:08:00.720> have<00:08:00.879> had<00:08:01.199> near-death<00:08:01.840> experiences<00:08:02.560> often<00:08:02.960> describe<00:08:03.440> the<00:08:03.680> exact<00:08:04.479> opposite.

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They<00:08:06.160> say<00:08:06.400> it<00:08:06.639> didn't<00:08:07.039> feel<00:08:07.440> hazy<00:08:08.319> and<00:08:08.639> it<00:08:08.879> didn't<00:08:09.120> feel<00:08:09.440> like<00:08:09.599> a<00:08:09.919> dream.

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It<00:08:10.960> felt<00:08:11.360> hyper<00:08:11.840> real,<00:08:12.639> more<00:08:12.960> real<00:08:13.599> than<00:08:13.919> real,<00:08:14.800> almost<00:08:15.120> like<00:08:15.440> ordinary<00:08:16.000> life<00:08:16.319> had<00:08:16.560> suddenly<00:08:17.199> switched<00:08:17.599> on<00:08:17.919> into<00:08:18.560> ultra<00:08:18.960> 4K.

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And<00:08:20.240> the<00:08:20.479> memory<00:08:20.720> of<00:08:20.879> it<00:08:21.120> can<00:08:21.360> stay<00:08:21.680> unusually<00:08:22.639> clear<00:08:23.039> for<00:08:23.280> years.

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That<00:08:24.720> part<00:08:25.120> is<00:08:25.680> fascinating<00:08:26.319> to<00:08:26.560> me<00:08:26.800> because<00:08:27.120> whatever<00:08:27.520> you<00:08:27.680> think<00:08:27.919> caused<00:08:28.240> the<00:08:28.479> experience,<00:08:28.960> you<00:08:29.199> still<00:08:29.440> have<00:08:29.599> to<00:08:29.759> explain<00:08:30.160> how<00:08:30.400> someone<00:08:30.720> who<00:08:30.960> was<00:08:31.120> incapacitated

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or<00:08:32.719> in<00:08:33.200> some<00:08:33.519> cases<00:08:34.240> clinically<00:08:34.880> dead<00:08:35.680> formed<00:08:36.080> a<00:08:36.479> clearer,<00:08:37.200> more<00:08:37.519> organized<00:08:38.240> memory<00:08:38.560> of<00:08:38.719> that<00:08:39.039> room<00:08:39.599> than<00:08:39.919> I<00:08:40.240> probably<00:08:40.719> would

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have<00:08:41.519> formed<00:08:42.159> standing<00:08:42.560> there<00:08:43.039> fully<00:08:43.440> awake.

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And<00:08:44.720> that<00:08:44.959> is<00:08:45.120> what<00:08:45.360> this<00:08:45.680> entire<00:08:46.240> book<00:08:46.959> is<00:08:47.279> about.

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Before<00:08:48.480> this<00:08:48.720> book,<00:08:49.120> one<00:08:49.360> case<00:08:49.680> might<00:08:49.920> be<00:08:50.080> buried<00:08:50.399> in<00:08:50.720> a<00:08:50.959> medical<00:08:51.279> paper.

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Another<00:08:52.480> might<00:08:52.720> be<00:08:52.959> sitting<00:08:53.279> in<00:08:53.440> a<00:08:53.680> doctor's<00:08:54.080> book.

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Another<00:08:55.040> might<00:08:55.360> only<00:08:55.600> exist<00:08:55.920> in<00:08:56.160> an<00:08:56.399> old<00:08:56.560> interview<00:08:56.959> from<00:08:57.200> a<00:08:57.440> hospital<00:08:57.839> halfway<00:08:58.240> across<00:08:58.560> the<00:08:58.800> world.

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You<00:08:59.440> could<00:08:59.600> find<00:08:59.760> one<00:08:59.920> of<00:09:00.080> them<00:09:00.160> and<00:09:00.399> never<00:09:00.720> even<00:09:01.040> know<00:09:01.200> the<00:09:01.519> others<00:09:01.839> existed.

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So,<00:09:03.200> the<00:09:03.440> researchers<00:09:04.000> behind<00:09:04.320> this<00:09:04.560> book<00:09:04.880> did<00:09:05.040> the<00:09:05.600> painstaking<00:09:06.560> work<00:09:07.120> of<00:09:07.440> finding<00:09:07.760> these<00:09:08.080> cases<00:09:08.480> and<00:09:08.800> finally<00:09:09.279> putting<00:09:09.600> them<00:09:09.760> next<00:09:10.000> to<00:09:10.160> each<00:09:10.320> other.

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And<00:09:11.200> honestly,<00:09:11.760> that<00:09:12.000> is<00:09:12.080> a<00:09:12.320> massive<00:09:12.959> achievement<00:09:13.440> in<00:09:13.760> itself.

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Now<00:09:14.720> look,<00:09:15.040> when<00:09:15.200> I<00:09:15.440> call<00:09:15.600> this<00:09:16.000> one<00:09:16.240> of<00:09:16.320> the<00:09:16.480> most<00:09:16.880> important<00:09:17.279> books<00:09:17.600> ever<00:09:17.839> written,<00:09:18.560> I<00:09:18.800> am<00:09:19.279> not<00:09:19.839> saying<00:09:20.160> the<00:09:20.480> book<00:09:20.640> itself<00:09:21.120> is<00:09:21.440> perfect.

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I<00:09:22.662> don't<00:09:22.925> love<00:09:23.188> every<00:09:23.451> part<00:09:23.714> of<00:09:23.976> it<00:09:24.239> and<00:09:24.502> how<00:09:24.765> it's<00:09:25.028> written<00:09:25.291> and<00:09:25.554> I'm<00:09:25.817> not<00:09:26.080> sitting<00:09:26.343> here<00:09:26.605> endorsing<00:09:26.868> every<00:09:27.131> single<00:09:27.394> line<00:09:27.657> in<00:09:27.920> it.

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So<00:09:28.320> that<00:09:28.480> so<00:09:28.720> that<00:09:28.880> must<00:09:29.120> be<00:09:29.279> made<00:09:29.600> clear.<00:09:30.480> That's<00:09:30.720> not<00:09:30.959> why<00:09:31.120> I<00:09:31.440> think<00:09:31.600> it<00:09:31.839> is<00:09:32.000> so<00:09:32.240> important.

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It's<00:09:33.279> important<00:09:33.680> because<00:09:34.080> for<00:09:34.399> the<00:09:34.640> first<00:09:34.959> time<00:09:35.440> you<00:09:35.680> can<00:09:35.920> actually<00:09:36.320> see<00:09:36.480> the<00:09:36.800> full<00:09:37.040> pattern.

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The<00:09:38.240> book<00:09:38.399> even<00:09:38.720> won<00:09:39.040> two<00:09:39.360> scientific<00:09:39.839> awards.

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And<00:09:41.279> for<00:09:41.440> me,<00:09:41.680> the<00:09:42.000> first<00:09:42.240> three<00:09:42.560> chapters<00:09:43.120> are<00:09:43.360> where<00:09:43.600> you<00:09:43.839> really<00:09:44.160> understand<00:09:44.800> why.

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Because<00:09:46.480> one<00:09:46.800> strange<00:09:47.200> case,<00:09:47.760> honestly,<00:09:48.240> you<00:09:48.399> can<00:09:48.560> explain<00:09:48.800> that<00:09:49.040> away.

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Maybe<00:09:49.680> the<00:09:49.920> person<00:09:50.160> was<00:09:50.399> mistaken.<00:09:51.360> Maybe<00:09:51.600> the<00:09:51.839> witness<00:09:52.240> remembered<00:09:52.640> it<00:09:52.800> wrong.

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Maybe<00:09:53.920> some<00:09:54.240> ordinary<00:09:54.800> piece<00:09:55.040> of<00:09:55.279> information<00:09:55.760> got<00:09:56.000> through<00:09:56.240> and<00:09:56.480> no<00:09:56.640> one<00:09:56.800> realized<00:09:57.279> it.

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Fine.<00:09:59.040> But<00:09:59.200> then<00:09:59.360> you<00:09:59.600> get<00:09:59.920> another<00:10:00.399> case<00:10:01.120> in<00:10:01.440> another<00:10:01.839> hospital,<00:10:02.320> in<00:10:02.560> another<00:10:02.959> country,<00:10:03.760> under<00:10:04.080> a<00:10:04.320> completely<00:10:04.720> different<00:10:05.120> medical<00:10:05.680> condition,<00:10:06.560> and

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then<00:10:07.040> another<00:10:08.000> and<00:10:08.240> then<00:10:08.560> another.

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And<00:10:10.000> this<00:10:10.160> is<00:10:10.320> where<00:10:10.480> it<00:10:10.640> gets<00:10:10.880> harder<00:10:11.200> to<00:10:11.440> dismiss.

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At<00:10:12.640> some<00:10:12.880> point,<00:10:13.120> you<00:10:13.279> need<00:10:13.440> an<00:10:13.680> explanation<00:10:14.160> that<00:10:14.480> can<00:10:14.640> make<00:10:14.800> sense<00:10:15.200> of<00:10:15.440> all<00:10:15.680> of<00:10:15.760> it.

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So,<00:10:16.959> here's<00:10:17.279> what<00:10:17.440> we're<00:10:17.680> going<00:10:17.760> to<00:10:17.839> do<00:10:18.000> in<00:10:18.240> this<00:10:18.399> episode.

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We're<00:10:19.200> not<00:10:19.360> going<00:10:19.440> to<00:10:19.680> go<00:10:19.839> through<00:10:20.240> every<00:10:20.560> case<00:10:20.959> in<00:10:21.200> the<00:10:21.360> book,<00:10:22.079> obviously,<00:10:23.120> but<00:10:23.519> we're<00:10:23.839> going<00:10:23.920> to<00:10:24.000> take<00:10:24.240> some<00:10:24.399> of<00:10:24.480> the<00:10:24.640> most<00:10:24.959> fascinating<00:10:25.680> cases<00:10:26.079> from<00:10:26.320> those<00:10:26.560> first

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three<00:10:27.120> chapters<00:10:27.920> and<00:10:28.240> move<00:10:28.640> through<00:10:28.959> the<00:10:29.200> radically<00:10:29.839> different<00:10:30.240> conditions<00:10:30.800> in<00:10:31.120> which<00:10:31.360> they<00:10:31.760> happened.

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So,<00:10:32.640> the<00:10:32.880> first<00:10:33.120> place<00:10:33.440> this<00:10:33.680> book<00:10:33.920> takes<00:10:34.240> us<00:10:34.480> is<00:10:34.880> right<00:10:35.360> above<00:10:36.160> the<00:10:36.480> room.

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These<00:10:37.360> are<00:10:37.440> the<00:10:37.680> cases<00:10:38.000> people<00:10:38.320> usually<00:10:38.720> picture<00:10:39.040> when<00:10:39.279> they<00:10:39.440> hear<00:10:39.600> the<00:10:39.839> words<00:10:40.320> out<00:10:40.480> of<00:10:40.640> body<00:10:41.040> experience.

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The<00:10:42.560> person's<00:10:42.959> physical<00:10:43.360> body<00:10:43.680> is<00:10:43.920> still<00:10:44.160> lying<00:10:44.640> on<00:10:44.880> a<00:10:45.120> hospital<00:10:45.519> bed<00:10:45.760> or<00:10:46.000> on<00:10:46.240> an<00:10:46.399> operating<00:10:46.880> table,<00:10:47.519> but<00:10:47.760> they<00:10:48.000> describe<00:10:48.720> finding<00:10:49.120> themselves<00:10:49.760> somewhere<00:10:50.160> near<00:10:50.560> the

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ceiling,<00:10:51.839> looking<00:10:52.320> down<00:10:52.880> at<00:10:53.120> the<00:10:53.360> room<00:10:53.600> below.

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They<00:10:54.959> can<00:10:55.120> see<00:10:55.279> their<00:10:55.519> own<00:10:55.680> body.<00:10:56.160> They<00:10:56.320> can<00:10:56.480> see<00:10:56.640> the<00:10:56.880> doctors<00:10:57.360> moving<00:10:57.760> around<00:10:58.000> it.

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And<00:10:58.720> when<00:10:58.880> they<00:10:59.120> come<00:10:59.279> back,<00:10:59.519> they<00:10:59.839> describe<00:11:00.240> what<00:11:00.640> happened<00:11:01.040> from<00:11:01.279> their<00:11:01.519> point<00:11:01.680> of<00:11:01.839> view.

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And<00:11:03.040> the<00:11:03.279> first<00:11:03.440> case<00:11:03.839> involves<00:11:04.320> a<00:11:04.560> 56-year-old<00:11:05.440> van<00:11:05.839> driver<00:11:06.160> named<00:11:06.480> Al<00:11:06.800> Sullivan.

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Now,<00:11:07.760> Sullivan<00:11:08.399> was<00:11:08.640> at<00:11:08.880> work<00:11:09.040> in<00:11:09.279> New<00:11:09.440> England<00:11:09.760> when<00:11:10.000> his<00:11:10.160> heart<00:11:10.480> started<00:11:10.800> beating<00:11:11.200> irregularly.

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He<00:11:12.800> was<00:11:12.959> taken<00:11:13.200> to<00:11:13.360> the<00:11:13.519> Hartford<00:11:14.160> Hospital<00:11:14.560> in<00:11:14.880> Connecticut.

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And<00:11:15.519> while<00:11:15.680> the<00:11:15.839> doctors<00:11:16.160> were<00:11:16.320> examining<00:11:16.800> him,<00:11:17.200> one<00:11:17.360> of<00:11:17.519> the<00:11:17.680> arteries<00:11:18.160> supplying<00:11:18.640> blood<00:11:18.880> to<00:11:19.120> his<00:11:19.279> heart<00:11:19.760> became<00:11:20.399> blocked.

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So,<00:11:21.519> suddenly<00:11:22.000> this<00:11:22.240> became<00:11:22.560> an<00:11:22.880> emergency.

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They<00:11:24.000> rushed<00:11:24.320> him<00:11:24.480> into<00:11:24.800> surgery.<00:11:25.519> And<00:11:25.680> while<00:11:25.920> he<00:11:26.079> was<00:11:26.160> under<00:11:26.399> general<00:11:26.880> anesthesia,<00:11:28.000> Sullivan<00:11:28.560> later<00:11:28.880> said<00:11:29.279> he<00:11:29.600> felt<00:11:29.839> himself<00:11:30.399> leave<00:11:30.720> his<00:11:30.959> body.

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He<00:11:31.920> described<00:11:32.560> rising<00:11:33.200> upward<00:11:34.079> until<00:11:34.399> he<00:11:34.640> found<00:11:34.959> himself<00:11:35.360> looking<00:11:35.680> down<00:11:36.000> into<00:11:36.320> the<00:11:36.480> operating<00:11:36.959> room.

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Below<00:11:37.839> him,<00:11:38.079> he<00:11:38.240> could<00:11:38.399> see<00:11:38.640> his<00:11:38.959> body<00:11:39.360> covered<00:11:39.680> in<00:11:40.000> light<00:11:40.320> blue<00:11:40.640> sheets.

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His<00:11:41.920> chest<00:11:42.320> had<00:11:42.560> been<00:11:42.800> opened.<00:11:43.519> He<00:11:43.760> could<00:11:43.920> see<00:11:44.079> his<00:11:44.399> heart.

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He<00:11:45.600> could<00:11:45.839> see<00:11:46.320> two<00:11:46.640> surgeons<00:11:47.200> working<00:11:47.600> down<00:11:47.920> near<00:11:48.160> his<00:11:48.399> leg.

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And<00:11:49.440> that<00:11:49.760> part<00:11:50.079> actually<00:11:50.800> confused<00:11:51.440> him.

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He<00:11:52.399> cannot<00:11:52.720> understand<00:11:53.040> why<00:11:53.279> anyone<00:11:53.680> would<00:11:53.920> be<00:11:54.079> operating<00:11:54.560> on<00:11:54.880> his<00:11:55.440> leg<00:11:55.920> during<00:11:56.399> heart<00:11:56.720> surgery.

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Only<00:11:58.240> later<00:11:58.480> did<00:11:58.720> he<00:11:58.880> learn<00:11:59.120> that<00:11:59.279> the<00:11:59.519> surgeons<00:12:00.000> will<00:12:00.160> often<00:12:00.480> take<00:12:00.720> a<00:12:00.880> vein<00:12:01.360> from<00:12:01.600> the<00:12:01.760> leg<00:12:02.480> and<00:12:02.800> use<00:12:03.040> it<00:12:03.279> during<00:12:03.600> a<00:12:03.920> heart<00:12:04.240> bypass.

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But<00:12:05.680> that<00:12:05.920> was<00:12:06.000> not<00:12:06.160> the<00:12:06.399> detail<00:12:06.639> that<00:12:06.880> made<00:12:07.040> the<00:12:07.279> case<00:12:07.680> famous.

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The<00:12:08.560> detail<00:12:08.880> that<00:12:09.120> changed<00:12:09.519> everything<00:12:09.920> was<00:12:10.240> the<00:12:10.560> heart<00:12:10.880> surgeon.

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His<00:12:11.760> name<00:12:11.920> was<00:12:12.160> Hiroshi<00:12:12.880> Takata.<00:12:14.079> And<00:12:14.320> as<00:12:14.800> Sullivan<00:12:15.360> watched<00:12:15.760> him<00:12:16.000> from<00:12:16.160> above<00:12:16.560> the<00:12:16.720> operating<00:12:17.200> table,<00:12:17.839> Takata<00:12:18.399> seemed<00:12:18.720> to<00:12:18.880> be<00:12:19.120> doing<00:12:19.519> something

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ridiculous.<00:12:21.760> Sullivan<00:12:22.320> said<00:12:22.560> it<00:12:22.720> looked<00:12:22.959> like<00:12:23.120> the<00:12:23.360> surgeon<00:12:23.760> was<00:12:24.480> trying<00:12:24.800> to<00:12:25.040> fly.

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His<00:12:26.320> hands<00:12:26.639> were<00:12:26.800> held<00:12:27.600> against<00:12:28.079> his<00:12:28.320> chest<00:12:29.040> while<00:12:29.360> his<00:12:29.600> elbows<00:12:30.160> moved<00:12:30.560> outward<00:12:31.120> as<00:12:31.360> though<00:12:31.680> he<00:12:32.000> was<00:12:32.240> flapping<00:12:32.720> his<00:12:33.040> arms.

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And<00:12:34.480> then<00:12:34.720> the<00:12:34.959> experience<00:12:35.680> shifted.<00:12:36.639> Sullivan<00:12:37.200> said<00:12:37.680> he<00:12:38.000> moved<00:12:38.240> beyond<00:12:38.639> the<00:12:38.800> operating<00:12:39.279> room<00:12:39.600> entirely<00:12:40.079> into<00:12:40.399> what<00:12:40.639> felt<00:12:40.880> like<00:12:41.200> another<00:12:41.600> realm.

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There,<00:12:42.880> surrounded<00:12:43.360> by<00:12:43.519> a<00:12:43.760> bright<00:12:43.920> light,<00:12:44.240> he<00:12:44.480> saw<00:12:44.720> people<00:12:45.279> he<00:12:45.680> loved<00:12:46.079> who<00:12:46.240> had<00:12:46.480> died,<00:12:47.600> including<00:12:47.920> his<00:12:48.160> mother,<00:12:48.399> who<00:12:48.639> had<00:12:48.959> died<00:12:49.279> young.

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Now,<00:12:51.040> after<00:12:51.360> the<00:12:51.519> operation,<00:12:52.160> as<00:12:52.399> soon<00:12:52.560> as<00:12:52.800> Sullivan<00:12:53.360> was<00:12:53.519> able<00:12:53.760> to<00:12:53.920> speak,<00:12:54.399> he<00:12:54.639> told<00:12:54.880> his<00:12:55.120> cardiologist,<00:12:56.240> Anthony<00:12:56.720> LaSala,<00:12:57.440> what<00:12:57.680> he<00:12:57.839> had<00:12:58.079> believed<00:12:58.480> had<00:12:58.720> happened.

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And<00:13:00.000> LaSala's<00:13:00.560> first<00:13:00.800> reaction<00:13:01.120> was<00:13:01.360> basically<00:13:01.920> what<00:13:02.160> you<00:13:02.320> would<00:13:02.560> expect.

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He<00:13:03.279> thought<00:13:03.440> it<00:13:03.680> was<00:13:03.839> probably<00:13:04.079> the<00:13:04.399> medication.<00:13:05.760> Sullivan<00:13:06.320> had<00:13:06.560> just<00:13:06.720> undergone<00:13:07.440> emergency<00:13:08.160> heart<00:13:08.480> surgery<00:13:08.880> under<00:13:09.279> general<00:13:09.680> anesthesia.

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Maybe<00:13:11.120> his<00:13:11.360> mind<00:13:11.600> had<00:13:11.920> created<00:13:12.320> some<00:13:12.639> bizarre<00:13:13.040> dream.

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That<00:13:14.000> explanation<00:13:14.639> made<00:13:14.880> sense<00:13:15.120> to<00:13:15.279> LaSala<00:13:16.639> until<00:13:17.360> Sullivan<00:13:17.920> described<00:13:18.399> the<00:13:18.639> surgeon<00:13:19.120> trying<00:13:19.440> to<00:13:19.680> fly<00:13:20.560> because<00:13:20.880> LaSala<00:13:21.519> knew<00:13:21.839> exactly

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what<00:13:22.560> he<00:13:22.800> was<00:13:22.959> talking<00:13:23.279> about.<00:13:23.760> Takata<00:13:24.240> had<00:13:24.399> a<00:13:24.639> very<00:13:24.959> unusual<00:13:25.600> habit<00:13:26.000> inside<00:13:26.399> the<00:13:26.639> operating<00:13:27.040> room.

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Once<00:13:28.000> his<00:13:28.320> hands<00:13:28.639> had<00:13:28.880> been<00:13:29.040> scrubbed<00:13:29.440> and<00:13:29.680> sterilized,<00:13:30.720> he<00:13:30.959> was<00:13:31.200> extremely<00:13:31.920> careful<00:13:32.399> not<00:13:32.639> to<00:13:32.880> touch<00:13:33.279> anything<00:13:33.760> unnecessarily.

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So<00:13:35.600> when<00:13:35.760> he<00:13:36.000> was<00:13:36.079> not<00:13:36.320> actively<00:13:36.800> using<00:13:37.120> his<00:13:37.360> hands,<00:13:38.000> he<00:13:38.240> would<00:13:38.480> hold<00:13:38.800> his<00:13:39.120> palms<00:13:39.519> flat<00:13:39.920> against<00:13:40.320> his<00:13:40.560> chest<00:13:41.279> and<00:13:41.600> direct<00:13:42.240> the<00:13:42.480> other<00:13:42.800> members<00:13:43.120> of<00:13:43.360> the

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surgical<00:13:44.079> team<00:13:44.560> by<00:13:44.880> pointing<00:13:45.360> with<00:13:45.600> his<00:13:45.839> elbows.

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It<00:13:47.279> really<00:13:47.519> did<00:13:47.760> look<00:13:48.000> like<00:13:48.160> he<00:13:48.320> was<00:13:48.480> trying<00:13:48.720> to<00:13:48.959> fly.

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And<00:13:49.920> LaSala<00:13:50.480> later<00:13:50.800> said<00:13:50.959> he<00:13:51.120> had<00:13:51.360> never<00:13:51.519> seen<00:13:51.920> any<00:13:52.240> other<00:13:52.560> surgeon<00:13:53.040> doing<00:13:53.279> anything<00:13:53.600> like<00:13:53.839> that.

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And<00:13:55.120> that<00:13:55.360> is<00:13:55.440> the<00:13:55.680> part<00:13:55.839> of<00:13:56.000> this<00:13:56.160> case<00:13:56.639> I<00:13:57.040> cannot<00:13:57.519> get<00:13:57.760> past<00:13:58.639> because<00:13:58.959> Sullivan<00:13:59.519> did<00:13:59.680> not<00:13:59.839> merely<00:14:00.240> say<00:14:00.959> there<00:14:01.199> were<00:14:01.360> doctors<00:14:01.680> around<00:14:02.000> me.

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I<00:14:02.639> mean,<00:14:02.880> anyone<00:14:03.360> could<00:14:03.519> imagine<00:14:03.920> that.

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He<00:14:04.800> came<00:14:04.959> back<00:14:05.199> with<00:14:05.440> a<00:14:05.680> strange<00:14:06.800> low-probability<00:14:08.399> visual<00:14:09.120> detail,<00:14:10.320> one<00:14:10.560> that<00:14:10.800> sounded<00:14:11.199> almost<00:14:11.519> too<00:14:11.839> ridiculous<00:14:12.399> to<00:14:12.639> make

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up.<00:14:13.440> And<00:14:13.600> it<00:14:13.839> happened<00:14:14.160> to<00:14:14.399> match<00:14:14.880> a<00:14:15.279> real<00:14:16.079> highly<00:14:16.720> specific<00:14:17.199> habit<00:14:17.680> of<00:14:17.920> that<00:14:18.160> particular<00:14:18.639> surgeon.

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And<00:14:19.760> when<00:14:19.920> you<00:14:20.079> start<00:14:20.399> sifting<00:14:20.800> through<00:14:20.959> the<00:14:21.120> ordinary<00:14:21.680> explanations<00:14:22.320> here,<00:14:22.880> you<00:14:23.199> pretty<00:14:23.519> quickly<00:14:24.079> start<00:14:24.399> running<00:14:24.720> out<00:14:24.880> of<00:14:25.040> them.

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First,<00:14:26.320> his<00:14:26.639> eyes<00:14:26.959> were<00:14:27.199> taped<00:14:27.760> shut.

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There<00:14:28.959> was<00:14:29.199> also<00:14:29.760> a<00:14:30.000> sterile<00:14:30.399> drape<00:14:30.800> over<00:14:31.040> his<00:14:31.199> head,<00:14:31.760> blocking<00:14:32.240> the<00:14:32.480> entire<00:14:33.040> surgical<00:14:33.600> field.

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LaSala<00:14:35.040> later<00:14:35.279> said<00:14:35.440> that<00:14:35.680> even<00:14:35.839> if<00:14:36.079> Sullivan<00:14:36.800> had<00:14:37.199> somehow<00:14:37.600> been<00:14:37.839> fully<00:14:38.079> awake,<00:14:38.880> there<00:14:39.120> was<00:14:39.279> no<00:14:39.680> physical<00:14:40.240> angle<00:14:40.720> from<00:14:41.199> where<00:14:41.440> his<00:14:41.760> body<00:14:42.000> was<00:14:42.240> lying<00:14:42.720> that

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would<00:14:43.120> have<00:14:43.279> allowed<00:14:43.519> him<00:14:43.760> to<00:14:43.920> see<00:14:44.240> Takata's<00:14:44.880> arms.

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Okay,<00:14:45.839> but<00:14:46.079> then<00:14:46.639> maybe<00:14:46.880> he<00:14:47.199> heard<00:14:47.519> something.

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And<00:14:48.720> look,<00:14:48.959> that<00:14:49.199> is<00:14:49.360> not<00:14:49.839> a<00:14:50.079> ridiculous<00:14:50.880> explanation.

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There's<00:14:52.480> some<00:14:52.800> rare<00:14:53.120> cases<00:14:53.519> of<00:14:53.760> anesthesia<00:14:54.399> awareness<00:14:54.880> where<00:14:55.360> someone<00:14:55.760> later<00:14:56.079> remembers<00:14:56.480> a<00:14:56.720> voice,<00:14:57.199> a<00:14:57.440> monitor,<00:14:58.480> maybe<00:14:59.040> a<00:14:59.360> fragment<00:14:59.760> of<00:14:59.920> a

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conversation<00:15:00.639> from<00:15:00.880> the<00:15:01.040> operating<00:15:01.519> room.<00:15:02.399> But<00:15:02.560> that<00:15:02.800> only<00:15:03.040> gets<00:15:03.279> you<00:15:03.519> so<00:15:03.839> far<00:15:04.639> because<00:15:04.959> what<00:15:05.279> Sullivan<00:15:05.839> described<00:15:06.320> wasn't<00:15:06.800> something<00:15:07.120> anyone<00:15:07.680> said.

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It<00:15:08.560> was<00:15:08.639> a<00:15:08.959> posture,<00:15:09.920> a<00:15:10.240> silent,<00:15:10.880> bizarre<00:15:11.440> movement<00:15:12.000> the<00:15:12.320> surgeon<00:15:12.720> was<00:15:13.040> making<00:15:13.279> with<00:15:13.440> his<00:15:13.680> arms.

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No<00:15:14.959> one<00:15:15.199> needed<00:15:15.440> to<00:15:15.680> announce<00:15:16.639> Dr.

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Takata<00:15:17.600> is<00:15:17.760> holding<00:15:18.000> his<00:15:18.240> hands<00:15:18.560> against<00:15:18.880> his<00:15:19.040> chest<00:15:19.360> and<00:15:19.600> pointing<00:15:20.000> his<00:15:20.240> elbows.

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And<00:15:21.519> pointing<00:15:21.839> your<00:15:22.079> elbows<00:15:22.720> doesn't<00:15:23.120> make<00:15:23.360> a<00:15:23.600> sound.

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Is<00:15:24.800> it<00:15:25.040> making<00:15:25.279> a<00:15:25.440> sound<00:15:25.760> right<00:15:26.000> now?<00:15:27.199> The<00:15:27.360> investigators<00:15:28.079> later<00:15:28.399> concluded<00:15:28.800> that<00:15:29.120> Sullivan<00:15:29.680> was<00:15:29.839> most<00:15:30.160> likely<00:15:30.560> under<00:15:30.959> full<00:15:31.360> anesthesia<00:15:32.079> at<00:15:32.320> the<00:15:32.480> moment<00:15:32.800> he

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reported<00:15:33.760> seeing<00:15:34.079> it.<00:15:34.880> And<00:15:35.120> this<00:15:35.279> eventually<00:15:35.760> became<00:15:36.160> a<00:15:36.399> remarkably<00:15:37.120> well<00:15:37.440> documented<00:15:38.000> case.

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So<00:15:38.959> you<00:15:39.199> have<00:15:39.360> Sullivan's<00:15:39.920> account.<00:15:40.320> You<00:15:40.480> have<00:15:40.639> LaSala<00:15:41.519> who<00:15:41.839> confirmed<00:15:42.320> that<00:15:42.639> Sullivan<00:15:43.199> told<00:15:43.440> him<00:15:43.680> about<00:15:44.000> the<00:15:44.240> experience<00:15:45.360> shortly<00:15:45.760> after<00:15:46.000> the<00:15:46.240> operation<00:15:47.360> and

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you<00:15:47.760> have<00:15:48.000> Takata<00:15:48.959> who<00:15:49.199> confirmed<00:15:49.839> that<00:15:50.160> this<00:15:50.480> really<00:15:50.720> was<00:15:51.120> his<00:15:51.440> unusual<00:15:52.079> habit<00:15:52.480> in<00:15:52.720> surgery<00:15:53.600> and<00:15:53.920> both<00:15:54.240> doctors<00:15:54.639> were<00:15:55.040> interviewed<00:15:55.600> directly

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by<00:15:56.399> researchers.<00:15:57.519> LaSala<00:15:58.079> even<00:15:58.399> said<00:15:58.639> he<00:15:58.800> had<00:15:59.040> never<00:15:59.199> seen<00:15:59.440> another<00:15:59.759> surgeon<00:16:00.160> move<00:16:00.399> that<00:16:00.639> way<00:16:01.199> and<00:16:01.440> Takata<00:16:02.000> himself<00:16:02.399> later<00:16:02.639> admitted<00:16:03.199> that<00:16:03.440> he<00:16:03.680> could<00:16:03.920> not<00:16:04.160> explain

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how<00:16:05.120> Sullivan<00:16:05.759> saw<00:16:06.000> all<00:16:06.240> those<00:16:06.480> details<00:16:06.959> under<00:16:07.360> complete<00:16:07.759> anesthesia.

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The<00:16:09.040> case<00:16:09.199> was<00:16:09.440> eventually<00:16:09.839> published<00:16:10.160> by<00:16:10.320> Emily<00:16:10.720> Cook,<00:16:11.360> Bruce<00:16:11.680> Grayson,<00:16:12.639> and<00:16:12.880> Ian<00:16:13.279> Stevenson.

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So<00:16:14.399> by<00:16:14.639> the<00:16:14.720> end<00:16:14.880> of<00:16:14.959> it,<00:16:15.120> you<00:16:15.279> were<00:16:15.440> left<00:16:15.600> with<00:16:15.759> a<00:16:16.000> very<00:16:16.320> simple<00:16:16.720> problem.

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If<00:16:17.759> Sullivan<00:16:18.320> could<00:16:18.560> not<00:16:18.800> see<00:16:18.959> it<00:16:19.199> from<00:16:19.360> the<00:16:19.600> table<00:16:19.920> and<00:16:20.240> hearing<00:16:20.720> does<00:16:20.880> not<00:16:21.120> explain<00:16:21.440> it,<00:16:22.160> how<00:16:22.399> did<00:16:22.639> the<00:16:22.800> experience<00:16:23.360> contain<00:16:23.839> a<00:16:24.079> correct<00:16:24.880> visual<00:16:25.360> detail<00:16:25.920> from

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a<00:16:26.399> point<00:16:26.560> of<00:16:26.720> view<00:16:27.040> above<00:16:27.440> the<00:16:27.680> room?

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And<00:16:28.639> by<00:16:28.800> the<00:16:28.880> way,<00:16:29.120> Sullivan<00:16:29.759> actually<00:16:30.079> described<00:16:30.720> far<00:16:31.040> more<00:16:31.360> than<00:16:31.600> the<00:16:31.759> surgeon's<00:16:32.240> elbows.

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That's<00:16:33.600> just<00:16:33.759> the<00:16:34.079> detail<00:16:34.320> that<00:16:34.560> makes<00:16:34.800> his<00:16:35.040> case<00:16:35.360> so<00:16:35.680> hard<00:16:35.920> to<00:16:36.240> explain.

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Now,<00:16:37.440> the<00:16:37.600> next<00:16:37.839> case<00:16:38.079> stood<00:16:38.320> out<00:16:38.399> to<00:16:38.560> me<00:16:38.720> for<00:16:38.880> a<00:16:39.120> completely<00:16:39.600> different<00:16:39.920> reason.

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It<00:16:41.040> wasn't<00:16:41.360> about<00:16:41.600> one<00:16:41.920> strange<00:16:42.320> detail.<00:16:42.800> It<00:16:42.959> was<00:16:43.040> the<00:16:43.279> sequence<00:16:43.680> of<00:16:43.920> an<00:16:44.160> entire<00:16:44.800> open<00:16:45.120> heart<00:16:45.440> operation.

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So,<00:16:46.800> the<00:16:47.040> patient<00:16:47.360> was<00:16:47.519> a<00:16:47.759> 52-year-old<00:16:48.560> night<00:16:48.800> watchman.

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And<00:16:49.839> during<00:16:50.160> surgery,<00:16:50.560> he<00:16:50.800> said<00:16:50.959> he<00:16:51.199> suddenly<00:16:51.680> found<00:16:52.000> himself<00:16:52.399> above<00:16:52.800> the<00:16:53.040> operating<00:16:53.519> table.

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From<00:16:54.639> there,<00:16:54.880> he<00:16:55.120> watched<00:16:55.360> the<00:16:55.600> doctors<00:16:56.079> open<00:16:56.320> his<00:16:56.560> chest<00:16:56.800> with<00:16:56.959> a<00:16:57.120> saw<00:16:57.759> and<00:16:58.000> place<00:16:58.399> a<00:16:58.720> large<00:16:59.199> shiny<00:16:59.680> piece<00:16:59.839> of<00:17:00.000> metal<00:17:00.320> inside<00:17:01.360> to<00:17:01.680> hold<00:17:01.920> it<00:17:02.160> apart.

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He<00:17:03.279> noticed<00:17:03.680> a<00:17:03.920> darker<00:17:04.400> section<00:17:04.799> on<00:17:05.039> one<00:17:05.280> side<00:17:05.439> of<00:17:05.600> his<00:17:05.760> heart.

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Then<00:17:06.559> he<00:17:06.799> watched<00:17:07.039> the<00:17:07.280> surgeons<00:17:07.760> lift<00:17:08.079> the<00:17:08.240> heart,<00:17:09.039> turn<00:17:09.280> it<00:17:09.520> over,<00:17:10.400> cut<00:17:10.720> the<00:17:10.880> damaged<00:17:11.280> section<00:17:11.679> away,<00:17:12.079> and<00:17:12.319> place<00:17:12.720> a<00:17:12.959> needle<00:17:13.360> inside<00:17:13.679> it.

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At<00:17:14.880> the<00:17:14.959> end,<00:17:15.199> he<00:17:15.360> said<00:17:15.520> he<00:17:15.760> watched<00:17:16.000> them<00:17:16.319> close<00:17:16.640> the<00:17:16.880> incision<00:17:17.439> one<00:17:17.919> layer<00:17:18.079> at<00:17:18.240> a<00:17:18.480> time.

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And<00:17:19.360> the<00:17:19.520> whole<00:17:19.679> thing<00:17:19.839> looked<00:17:20.160> unfamiliar<00:17:20.720> to<00:17:20.959> him.

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His<00:17:21.839> heart<00:17:22.160> looked<00:17:22.480> nothing<00:17:22.880> like<00:17:23.039> the<00:17:23.280> symbol<00:17:23.679> we<00:17:23.919> all<00:17:24.240> draw.

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From<00:17:25.360> above,<00:17:25.760> he<00:17:26.000> said<00:17:26.480> it<00:17:26.720> looked<00:17:26.959> more<00:17:27.199> like<00:17:27.360> the<00:17:27.679> continent<00:17:28.160> of<00:17:28.480> Africa.

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Now,<00:17:30.080> at<00:17:30.240> this<00:17:30.480> point,<00:17:30.799> it's<00:17:31.120> still<00:17:31.440> only<00:17:31.760> his<00:17:32.080> story,<00:17:32.640> but<00:17:32.880> cardiologist<00:17:33.679> Michael<00:17:34.000> Sabom<00:17:34.640> had<00:17:34.960> something<00:17:35.280> he<00:17:35.520> could<00:17:35.760> check<00:17:36.000> it<00:17:36.160> against,<00:17:36.559> the<00:17:36.960> actual<00:17:37.919> operative

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report.<00:17:39.440> That<00:17:39.679> is<00:17:39.840> the<00:17:40.000> record<00:17:40.240> the<00:17:40.400> surgeon<00:17:40.720> writes<00:17:41.039> to<00:17:41.280> document<00:17:41.760> exactly<00:17:42.160> what<00:17:42.480> happened<00:17:42.720> during<00:17:43.120> the<00:17:43.280> operation,<00:17:44.240> and<00:17:44.480> it<00:17:44.640> had<00:17:44.799> nothing<00:17:45.039> to<00:17:45.280> do<00:17:45.360> with<00:17:45.520> a<00:17:45.679> near-death

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experience.<00:17:47.039> It<00:17:47.280> already<00:17:47.520> existed.<00:17:48.559> So,<00:17:48.880> Sabom<00:17:49.360> took<00:17:49.600> the<00:17:49.840> patient's<00:17:50.240> account<00:17:50.559> and<00:17:50.799> started<00:17:51.200> going<00:17:51.440> through<00:17:51.600> it<00:17:51.840> one<00:17:52.160> detail<00:17:52.559> at<00:17:52.799> a<00:17:52.960> time.

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The<00:17:53.760> patient<00:17:54.160> said<00:17:54.480> they<00:17:54.720> opened<00:17:54.960> up<00:17:55.120> the<00:17:55.280> chest<00:17:55.600> with<00:17:55.760> a<00:17:55.919> saw.

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The<00:17:57.280> report<00:17:57.840> said<00:17:58.240> his<00:17:58.559> sternum<00:17:59.120> had<00:17:59.360> been<00:17:59.600> sawed<00:18:00.080> open.

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Check.<00:18:02.400> He<00:18:02.640> said<00:18:02.880> a<00:18:03.200> large<00:18:03.520> shiny<00:18:04.000> metal<00:18:04.320> object<00:18:05.200> was<00:18:05.600> holding<00:18:06.080> his<00:18:06.320> chest<00:18:06.880> apart.

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The<00:18:08.240> report<00:18:08.559> said<00:18:08.799> a<00:18:08.960> metal<00:18:09.280> retractor<00:18:09.760> had<00:18:10.080> been<00:18:10.160> used<00:18:10.400> to<00:18:10.720> hold<00:18:11.360> opening.

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Check.<00:18:13.280> He<00:18:13.600> said<00:18:14.160> one<00:18:14.480> section<00:18:14.880> of<00:18:15.039> his<00:18:15.280> heart<00:18:15.600> looked<00:18:16.080> darker<00:18:16.480> than<00:18:16.720> the<00:18:16.960> rest.

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The<00:18:17.919> report<00:18:18.320> documented<00:18:19.039> a<00:18:19.360> large<00:18:19.840> damaged<00:18:20.320> bulge<00:18:20.799> in<00:18:21.039> that<00:18:21.280> area<00:18:21.600> of<00:18:21.760> the<00:18:21.919> heart.

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Check.<00:18:23.520> He<00:18:23.760> said<00:18:24.000> the<00:18:24.240> doctors<00:18:25.039> lifted<00:18:25.440> his<00:18:25.760> heart,<00:18:26.400> turned<00:18:26.720> it<00:18:26.960> over,<00:18:27.760> and<00:18:28.080> cut<00:18:28.400> part<00:18:28.640> of<00:18:28.799> it<00:18:29.039> away.

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The<00:18:30.240> report<00:18:30.720> said<00:18:31.200> that<00:18:31.360> the<00:18:31.600> heart<00:18:31.760> had<00:18:32.000> been<00:18:32.160> turned<00:18:32.480> upside<00:18:32.880> down<00:18:33.600> while<00:18:33.840> the<00:18:34.000> damaged<00:18:34.400> section<00:18:34.799> was<00:18:35.120> removed.

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Check.<00:18:36.799> He<00:18:37.039> said<00:18:37.120> that<00:18:37.360> they<00:18:37.600> put<00:18:37.760> a<00:18:37.919> needle<00:18:38.320> directly<00:18:38.720> into<00:18:39.039> his<00:18:39.280> heart<00:18:39.840> and<00:18:40.000> the<00:18:40.320> report<00:18:40.799> said<00:18:41.120> a<00:18:41.360> needle<00:18:41.679> and<00:18:42.000> syringe<00:18:42.480> had<00:18:42.720> been<00:18:42.880> used<00:18:43.120> to<00:18:43.360> remove<00:18:43.840> trapped<00:18:44.400> air.

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Check.<00:18:46.240> He<00:18:46.480> said<00:18:47.039> they<00:18:47.440> stitched<00:18:47.840> inside<00:18:48.640> first<00:18:49.039> and<00:18:49.280> then<00:18:49.520> worked<00:18:49.840> their<00:18:50.160> way<00:18:50.559> outside.

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The<00:18:51.919> report<00:18:52.320> said<00:18:52.559> that<00:18:52.880> the<00:18:53.039> wound<00:18:53.520> had<00:18:53.760> been<00:18:53.919> closed<00:18:54.400> in<00:18:54.799> layers.

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Check.<00:18:56.799> So<00:18:57.039> by<00:18:57.280> the<00:18:57.440> time<00:18:58.160> Sabom<00:18:58.720> had<00:18:58.960> reached<00:18:59.280> the<00:18:59.520> end,<00:19:00.160> every<00:19:00.880> medically<00:19:01.360> important<00:19:01.760> step<00:19:02.000> was<00:19:02.240> confirmed<00:19:02.640> by<00:19:02.880> the<00:19:03.039> surgeon's<00:19:03.600> report.

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And<00:19:04.559> that<00:19:04.720> is<00:19:04.880> where<00:19:05.039> this<00:19:05.280> case<00:19:05.679> really<00:19:06.000> hit<00:19:06.320> me.

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The<00:19:07.039> patient<00:19:07.360> did<00:19:07.600> not<00:19:07.760> know<00:19:08.000> the<00:19:08.240> medical<00:19:08.559> names<00:19:08.880> for<00:19:09.039> any<00:19:09.200> of<00:19:09.280> these<00:19:09.600> things.

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He<00:19:10.480> described<00:19:10.880> it<00:19:11.039> the<00:19:11.200> way<00:19:11.440> any<00:19:11.679> of<00:19:11.760> us<00:19:12.000> probably<00:19:12.400> would.

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There<00:19:13.520> was<00:19:13.760> a<00:19:14.080> shiny<00:19:14.400> metal<00:19:14.720> thing<00:19:14.960> holding<00:19:15.280> my<00:19:15.440> chest<00:19:15.679> open.

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They<00:19:16.559> turned<00:19:16.799> my<00:19:16.960> heart<00:19:17.200> over.<00:19:17.520> They<00:19:17.760> cut<00:19:18.000> away<00:19:18.320> something.

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They<00:19:19.440> put<00:19:19.600> a<00:19:19.840> needle<00:19:20.080> in<00:19:20.240> it.<00:19:20.960> Then<00:19:21.200> the<00:19:21.360> surgeon's<00:19:21.840> report<00:19:22.320> translated<00:19:23.039> each<00:19:23.280> of<00:19:23.520> those<00:19:23.919> ordinary<00:19:24.640> descriptions<00:19:25.520> into<00:19:26.160> the<00:19:26.480> exact<00:19:26.960> procedure<00:19:27.440> that

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had<00:19:27.919> taken<00:19:28.240> place.<00:19:28.720> One<00:19:28.960> account<00:19:29.360> came<00:19:29.520> from<00:19:29.679> the<00:19:29.840> surgeon<00:19:30.160> writing<00:19:30.480> down<00:19:30.640> what<00:19:30.880> he<00:19:31.039> did.

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The<00:19:31.760> other<00:19:32.080> came<00:19:32.320> from<00:19:32.559> an<00:19:32.880> unconscious<00:19:33.600> patient<00:19:33.919> who<00:19:34.160> said<00:19:34.400> he<00:19:34.559> had<00:19:34.720> watched<00:19:35.039> it<00:19:35.200> from<00:19:35.440> above<00:19:36.080> and<00:19:36.320> they<00:19:36.559> matched.

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Now<00:19:38.000> there<00:19:38.240> are<00:19:38.480> dozens<00:19:38.960> of<00:19:39.200> other<00:19:39.440> cases<00:19:39.760> in<00:19:40.000> this<00:19:40.240> book<00:19:40.640> built<00:19:40.960> around<00:19:41.200> the<00:19:41.520> same<00:19:41.760> basic<00:19:42.240> finding.

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someone<00:19:43.600> is<00:19:43.760> unconscious<00:19:44.320> or<00:19:44.559> otherwise<00:19:45.039> completely<00:19:45.520> incapacitated<00:19:46.720> and<00:19:46.960> later<00:19:47.360> describes<00:19:47.919> specific<00:19:48.400> things<00:19:48.799> happening<00:19:49.280> around<00:19:49.679> their<00:19:49.919> body.

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We<00:19:50.960> obviously<00:19:51.360> cannot<00:19:51.760> go<00:19:52.000> through<00:19:52.240> every<00:19:52.480> one<00:19:52.640> of<00:19:52.799> them<00:19:52.960> here.

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But<00:19:54.160> the<00:19:54.400> next<00:19:54.720> group<00:19:54.880> of<00:19:55.120> cases<00:19:55.600> pushes<00:19:56.000> the<00:19:56.240> investigation<00:19:57.039> one<00:19:57.360> step<00:19:57.679> further<00:19:58.720> because<00:19:59.120> now<00:19:59.600> distance<00:20:00.160> itself<00:20:00.960> becomes<00:20:01.360> part<00:20:01.520> of<00:20:01.679> the<00:20:01.840> evidence.

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Up<00:20:02.799> until<00:20:03.039> this<00:20:03.280> point,<00:20:03.600> everything<00:20:03.919> the<00:20:04.240> person<00:20:04.480> described<00:20:04.960> was<00:20:05.200> still<00:20:05.440> happening<00:20:05.840> somewhere<00:20:06.320> in<00:20:06.559> the<00:20:06.720> same<00:20:06.960> room.

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But<00:20:08.160> then<00:20:08.400> their<00:20:08.720> awareness<00:20:09.360> seems<00:20:09.760> to<00:20:09.919> move.

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A<00:20:10.960> nurse<00:20:11.280> goes<00:20:11.679> behind<00:20:12.000> a<00:20:12.240> wall.

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A<00:20:12.960> family<00:20:13.280> is<00:20:13.600> talking<00:20:14.000> down<00:20:14.240> the<00:20:14.400> hallway.

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Something<00:20:15.679> is<00:20:15.919> happening<00:20:16.240> on<00:20:16.480> another<00:20:16.960> floor.

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And<00:20:17.840> in<00:20:18.080> some<00:20:18.240> cases,<00:20:18.559> the<00:20:18.799> event<00:20:19.039> is<00:20:19.200> taking<00:20:19.520> place<00:20:20.000> miles<00:20:20.640> away.

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That<00:20:22.240> changes<00:20:22.640> the<00:20:22.880> problem<00:20:23.440> completely<00:20:24.559> because<00:20:25.200> now<00:20:25.440> we<00:20:25.679> are<00:20:25.840> not<00:20:26.080> talking<00:20:26.480> about<00:20:26.799> information<00:20:27.360> the<00:20:27.679> body<00:20:27.919> was<00:20:28.159> simply<00:20:28.799> highly<00:20:29.200> unlikely<00:20:29.679> to<00:20:29.840> pick<00:20:30.080> up.

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We're<00:20:30.960> talking<00:20:31.200> about<00:20:31.520> information<00:20:32.000> the<00:20:32.240> body<00:20:32.480> had<00:20:33.200> no<00:20:33.600> physical<00:20:34.159> access<00:20:34.480> to<00:20:34.799> at<00:20:35.039> all.

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Even<00:20:36.080> if<00:20:36.240> the<00:20:36.559> person<00:20:36.799> had<00:20:37.120> been<00:20:37.280> fully<00:20:37.600> awake<00:20:37.919> with<00:20:38.080> their<00:20:38.320> eyes<00:20:38.559> open<00:20:38.880> and<00:20:39.120> their<00:20:39.280> ears<00:20:39.520> working<00:20:39.840> normally,<00:20:40.720> they<00:20:41.039> could<00:20:41.200> still<00:20:41.440> not<00:20:41.600> have<00:20:41.840> seen<00:20:42.159> or<00:20:42.480> heard<00:20:43.120> what<00:20:43.360> was

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later<00:20:43.919> described.<00:20:45.200> It<00:20:45.440> was<00:20:45.600> beyond<00:20:46.320> their<00:20:46.640> senses.

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So,<00:20:48.400> the<00:20:48.640> first<00:20:48.880> case<00:20:49.120> in<00:20:49.360> this<00:20:49.520> category<00:20:50.000> comes<00:20:50.240> down<00:20:50.480> to<00:20:50.720> one<00:20:51.039> very<00:20:51.360> small<00:20:51.600> thing<00:20:51.760> a<00:20:52.000> nurse<00:20:52.320> did<00:20:52.559> with<00:20:52.799> her<00:20:52.960> hands.

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So,<00:20:54.000> Dr.<00:20:54.240> Raymond<00:20:54.640> Moody<00:20:55.039> was<00:20:55.200> in<00:20:55.440> an<00:20:55.600> emergency<00:20:56.080> room<00:20:56.400> trying<00:20:56.640> to<00:20:56.799> resuscitate<00:20:57.360> an<00:20:57.600> older<00:20:57.919> woman<00:20:58.559> when<00:20:58.799> the<00:20:58.960> nurse<00:20:59.360> assisting<00:20:59.840> him<00:21:00.159> needed<00:21:00.640> medication.

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So,<00:21:01.840> she<00:21:02.080> ran<00:21:02.240> into<00:21:02.480> another<00:21:02.799> room<00:21:03.039> to<00:21:03.280> get<00:21:03.440> it.

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The<00:21:04.159> medication<00:21:04.880> came<00:21:05.440> in<00:21:05.679> a<00:21:05.919> small<00:21:06.400> glass<00:21:06.880> vial.

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If<00:21:08.400> you've<00:21:08.559> never<00:21:08.720> seen<00:21:08.960> one,<00:21:09.280> you<00:21:09.440> open<00:21:09.679> it<00:21:09.840> by<00:21:10.159> snapping<00:21:10.720> off<00:21:10.960> the<00:21:11.200> narrow<00:21:11.520> glass<00:21:11.919> neck.

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Normally,<00:21:13.200> you<00:21:13.440> wrap<00:21:13.679> that<00:21:13.919> part<00:21:14.159> in<00:21:14.400> gauze<00:21:14.799> or<00:21:14.960> a<00:21:15.120> paper<00:21:15.280> towel<00:21:15.679> first<00:21:16.159> because<00:21:16.480> the<00:21:16.720> broken<00:21:17.039> edge<00:21:17.440> can<00:21:17.679> cut<00:21:17.919> your<00:21:18.159> hand.

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But<00:21:19.520> this<00:21:19.679> was<00:21:19.840> an<00:21:20.080> emergency<00:21:20.720> and<00:21:20.960> the<00:21:21.120> nurse<00:21:21.440> was<00:21:21.760> rushing.

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So,<00:21:22.960> she<00:21:23.200> grabbed<00:21:23.440> the<00:21:23.600> vial<00:21:23.919> with<00:21:24.080> her<00:21:24.240> bare<00:21:24.480> hand,<00:21:25.120> snapped<00:21:25.440> the<00:21:25.600> top<00:21:25.840> off,<00:21:26.480> and<00:21:26.720> brought<00:21:26.960> the<00:21:27.120> medication<00:21:27.679> back<00:21:27.919> to<00:21:28.159> Moody.

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Then<00:21:29.360> they<00:21:29.520> gave<00:21:29.760> it<00:21:29.840> to<00:21:30.000> the<00:21:30.240> woman,<00:21:30.640> kept<00:21:30.960> working<00:21:31.200> on<00:21:31.360> her,<00:21:31.600> and<00:21:31.840> eventually<00:21:32.400> she<00:21:32.640> regained<00:21:33.280> her<00:21:33.600> consciousness.

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And<00:21:35.440> once<00:21:35.679> she<00:21:35.919> did,<00:21:36.240> she<00:21:36.400> looked<00:21:36.720> directly<00:21:37.200> at<00:21:37.360> the<00:21:37.600> nurse<00:21:37.840> and<00:21:38.159> said,<00:21:38.880> "Honey,<00:21:39.840> I<00:21:40.080> saw<00:21:40.320> what<00:21:40.559> you<00:21:40.720> did<00:21:40.880> in<00:21:41.039> that<00:21:41.280> room."

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You're<00:21:41.919> going<00:21:42.000> to<00:21:42.159> cut<00:21:42.400> yourself<00:21:42.799> doing<00:21:43.120> that.<00:21:44.080> I<00:21:44.320> mean,<00:21:44.640> imagine<00:21:45.200> being<00:21:45.360> the<00:21:45.600> nurse.

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You<00:21:46.400> had<00:21:46.640> left<00:21:46.960> the<00:21:47.200> room.<00:21:47.600> The<00:21:47.840> woman<00:21:48.159> was<00:21:48.480> lying<00:21:48.799> on<00:21:48.960> a<00:21:49.200> table<00:21:49.600> while<00:21:50.240> everyone<00:21:50.640> was<00:21:50.799> trying<00:21:50.960> to<00:21:51.120> bring<00:21:51.360> her<00:21:51.520> back.

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And<00:21:52.320> now<00:21:52.559> she<00:21:52.799> was<00:21:52.960> warning<00:21:53.280> you<00:21:53.520> about<00:21:53.760> something<00:21:54.080> you<00:21:54.320> had<00:21:54.480> done<00:21:54.640> with<00:21:54.880> her<00:21:55.039> hands<00:21:55.520> somewhere<00:21:56.000> else."

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According<00:21:57.280> to<00:21:57.440> Moody,<00:21:58.080> the<00:21:58.240> nurse<00:21:58.559> was<00:21:58.880> completely<00:21:59.360> stunned.

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She<00:22:00.480> confirmed<00:22:00.880> that<00:22:01.120> the<00:22:01.280> woman<00:22:01.520> was<00:22:01.760> right<00:22:02.320> and<00:22:02.559> she<00:22:02.799> had<00:22:02.960> been<00:22:03.120> in<00:22:03.280> such<00:22:03.440> a<00:22:03.600> rush<00:22:03.840> that<00:22:04.000> she<00:22:04.240> broke<00:22:04.480> the<00:22:04.720> glass<00:22:04.960> with<00:22:05.120> her<00:22:05.280> bare<00:22:05.600> hand.

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And<00:22:06.799> the<00:22:06.960> patient<00:22:07.280> said<00:22:07.520> she<00:22:07.760> knew<00:22:08.000> because<00:22:08.240> while<00:22:08.799> Moody<00:22:09.280> was<00:22:09.520> working<00:22:09.919> on<00:22:10.159> her<00:22:10.400> body,<00:22:10.880> she<00:22:11.120> had<00:22:11.520> followed<00:22:12.000> the<00:22:12.320> nurse<00:22:12.720> into<00:22:13.039> the<00:22:13.280> other<00:22:13.440> room<00:22:14.000> and<00:22:14.320> watched<00:22:14.720> her

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open<00:22:15.360> it.<00:22:16.080> Now,<00:22:16.400> the<00:22:16.559> fact<00:22:16.640> that<00:22:16.799> the<00:22:16.960> nurse<00:22:17.200> went<00:22:17.360> to<00:22:17.520> get<00:22:17.679> medicine<00:22:18.159> is<00:22:18.400> not<00:22:18.640> the<00:22:18.880> interesting<00:22:19.360> part.

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What<00:22:20.240> matters<00:22:20.559> is<00:22:20.799> the<00:22:21.039> small<00:22:21.280> mistake.<00:22:22.400> The<00:22:22.559> nurse<00:22:22.880> did<00:22:23.120> not<00:22:23.280> follow<00:22:23.600> the<00:22:23.840> normal<00:22:24.240> procedure.

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She<00:22:25.039> skipped<00:22:25.280> the<00:22:25.520> protection,<00:22:26.240> held<00:22:26.480> the<00:22:26.640> glass<00:22:26.960> in<00:22:27.120> her<00:22:27.280> bare<00:22:27.520> hand,<00:22:27.919> and<00:22:28.159> snapped<00:22:28.480> it<00:22:28.640> open.

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And<00:22:29.679> somehow<00:22:30.240> the<00:22:30.480> patient<00:22:30.960> knew<00:22:31.200> that.

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Now,<00:22:32.320> maybe<00:22:32.559> she<00:22:32.799> heard<00:22:33.039> the<00:22:33.200> nurse<00:22:33.600> leave.

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Maybe<00:22:34.480> she<00:22:34.720> even<00:22:34.960> heard<00:22:35.280> the<00:22:35.520> glass<00:22:35.840> break.

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It's<00:22:36.880> possible.<00:22:38.000> But<00:22:38.400> neither<00:22:38.799> of<00:22:39.039> those<00:22:39.360> sounds<00:22:39.919> tells<00:22:40.159> you<00:22:40.400> what<00:22:40.720> the<00:22:40.960> nurse<00:22:41.280> was<00:22:41.600> doing<00:22:41.840> with<00:22:42.080> her<00:22:42.400> hands<00:22:43.039> on<00:22:43.280> the<00:22:43.520> other<00:22:43.679> side<00:22:43.919> of<00:22:44.080> the<00:22:44.240> wall.

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Does<00:22:45.280> not<00:22:45.440> tell<00:22:45.520> you<00:22:45.679> whether<00:22:46.000> the<00:22:46.159> glass<00:22:46.480> was<00:22:46.640> wrapped<00:22:46.960> in<00:22:47.120> gauze<00:22:47.520> or<00:22:47.760> held<00:22:48.159> completely<00:22:48.720> bare.

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And<00:22:49.919> that<00:22:50.080> was<00:22:50.240> the<00:22:50.480> whole<00:22:50.640> reason<00:22:50.880> the<00:22:51.120> patient<00:22:51.520> warned<00:22:51.840> her.

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She<00:22:52.799> was<00:22:52.880> not<00:22:53.120> saying,<00:22:53.440> "I<00:22:53.679> heard<00:22:53.919> you<00:22:54.159> open<00:22:54.400> the<00:22:54.559> medicine."

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She<00:22:55.520> was<00:22:55.679> saying,<00:22:55.840> "I<00:22:56.320> saw<00:22:57.039> how<00:22:57.360> you<00:22:57.600> did<00:22:57.840> it."

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Even<00:22:58.960> if<00:22:59.120> the<00:22:59.360> woman<00:22:59.520> had<00:22:59.760> been<00:22:59.919> fully<00:23:00.159> awake<00:23:00.559> with<00:23:00.799> her<00:23:01.039> eyes<00:23:01.440> open<00:23:01.919> and<00:23:02.240> every<00:23:02.400> one<00:23:02.559> of<00:23:02.720> her<00:23:02.880> senses<00:23:03.360> working<00:23:03.679> normally,<00:23:04.559> she<00:23:04.960> still<00:23:05.280> could<00:23:05.520> not<00:23:05.760> have<00:23:06.000> seen<00:23:06.320> through

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that<00:23:06.799> wall.<00:23:07.840> So,<00:23:08.159> the<00:23:08.559> problem<00:23:08.880> here<00:23:09.120> is<00:23:09.360> incredibly<00:23:10.000> simple.

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How<00:23:11.280> did<00:23:11.440> a<00:23:11.600> woman<00:23:11.919> being<00:23:12.240> resuscitated<00:23:13.440> know<00:23:13.919> exactly<00:23:14.559> what<00:23:14.720> a<00:23:14.960> nurse<00:23:15.280> did<00:23:15.440> with<00:23:15.600> her<00:23:15.840> hands<00:23:16.159> in<00:23:16.400> another<00:23:16.799> room?

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And<00:23:17.840> the<00:23:18.080> next<00:23:18.320> case<00:23:18.640> is<00:23:18.960> fascinating<00:23:19.600> for<00:23:19.840> a<00:23:20.080> completely<00:23:20.640> different<00:23:21.039> reason.

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The<00:23:22.080> next<00:23:22.320> case<00:23:22.640> begins<00:23:22.880> with<00:23:23.120> a<00:23:23.280> young<00:23:23.520> doctor<00:23:23.919> named<00:23:24.320> Bruce<00:23:24.640> Greyson.

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Today,<00:23:25.919> nearly<00:23:26.400> 50<00:23:26.799> years<00:23:27.039> later,<00:23:27.520> Greyson<00:23:28.080> is<00:23:28.320> one<00:23:28.480> of<00:23:28.559> the<00:23:28.799> most<00:23:29.039> influential<00:23:29.679> scientists<00:23:30.159> in<00:23:30.400> the<00:23:30.559> entire<00:23:30.880> field<00:23:31.120> of<00:23:31.280> near-death<00:23:31.840> studies.

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But<00:23:32.960> when<00:23:33.120> this<00:23:33.360> happened<00:23:33.679> in<00:23:33.840> the<00:23:34.080> 1970s,<00:23:35.039> he<00:23:35.280> was<00:23:35.360> just<00:23:35.600> a<00:23:35.760> few<00:23:36.000> weeks<00:23:36.240> into<00:23:36.559> his<00:23:36.799> psychiatric<00:23:37.440> training.

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He<00:23:38.159> had<00:23:38.400> never<00:23:38.640> studied<00:23:38.960> a<00:23:39.120> near-death<00:23:39.600> experience.

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He<00:23:40.609> did<00:23:40.818> not<00:23:41.028> even<00:23:41.237> know<00:23:41.446> there<00:23:41.655> would<00:23:41.865> be<00:23:42.074> a<00:23:42.283> whole<00:23:42.492> field<00:23:42.702> devoted<00:23:42.911> to<00:23:43.120> them.

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And<00:23:44.080> his<00:23:44.320> view<00:23:44.559> of<00:23:44.640> the<00:23:44.880> world<00:23:45.039> was<00:23:45.280> pretty<00:23:45.520> straightforward.

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The<00:23:46.480> mind<00:23:46.720> comes<00:23:46.880> from<00:23:47.120> the<00:23:47.280> brain.<00:23:47.840> The<00:23:48.080> physical<00:23:48.480> world<00:23:48.640> is<00:23:48.880> all<00:23:49.039> there<00:23:49.200> is.

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And<00:23:49.760> when<00:23:49.919> the<00:23:50.080> brain<00:23:50.320> stops<00:23:50.720> working,<00:23:51.600> the<00:23:51.840> person<00:23:52.240> stops<00:23:52.799> with<00:23:53.039> it.

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Then<00:23:53.840> one<00:23:54.000> night,<00:23:54.240> he<00:23:54.400> was<00:23:54.559> eating<00:23:54.799> dinner<00:23:55.039> in<00:23:55.200> the<00:23:55.360> hospital<00:23:55.760> cafeteria<00:23:56.559> when<00:23:56.799> his<00:23:57.039> pager<00:23:57.520> suddenly<00:23:57.919> went<00:23:58.080> off.

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And<00:23:58.960> Greyson<00:23:59.360> was<00:23:59.520> so<00:23:59.679> new<00:23:59.840> that<00:24:00.080> the<00:24:00.240> sound<00:24:00.559> startled<00:24:01.039> him.

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So<00:24:01.919> he<00:24:02.159> dropped<00:24:02.480> his<00:24:02.720> fork<00:24:03.200> and<00:24:03.520> splattered<00:24:04.000> spaghetti<00:24:04.559> sauce<00:24:04.960> all<00:24:05.200> over<00:24:05.440> his<00:24:05.679> tie.

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Now,<00:24:06.640> he<00:24:06.880> was<00:24:06.960> already<00:24:07.280> nervous<00:24:07.679> enough<00:24:08.080> about<00:24:08.320> being<00:24:08.559> a<00:24:08.799> brand<00:24:08.960> new<00:24:09.280> doctor.

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He<00:24:10.320> did<00:24:10.400> not<00:24:10.559> want<00:24:10.720> to<00:24:10.799> walk<00:24:10.960> into<00:24:11.200> the<00:24:11.360> emergency<00:24:11.760> room<00:24:12.000> with<00:24:12.240> his<00:24:12.400> dinner<00:24:12.640> all<00:24:12.799> over<00:24:13.039> his<00:24:13.200> shirt.

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So<00:24:14.000> he<00:24:14.240> pulled<00:24:14.480> on<00:24:14.799> his<00:24:15.039> white<00:24:15.279> coat,<00:24:15.919> buttoned<00:24:16.320> it<00:24:16.400> all<00:24:16.559> the<00:24:16.720> way<00:24:16.799> up,<00:24:17.279> and<00:24:17.600> completely<00:24:18.159> hid<00:24:18.400> the<00:24:18.640> stain.

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The<00:24:20.080> patient<00:24:20.400> he<00:24:20.640> had<00:24:20.799> been<00:24:20.960> called<00:24:21.200> to<00:24:21.360> see<00:24:21.600> was<00:24:21.760> a<00:24:22.000> young<00:24:22.159> woman<00:24:22.320> who<00:24:22.480> had<00:24:22.720> apparently<00:24:23.279> overdosed.

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She<00:24:24.559> was<00:24:24.720> completely<00:24:25.279> unconscious.<00:24:26.559> Greyson<00:24:27.039> tried<00:24:27.200> to<00:24:27.360> wake<00:24:27.600> her,<00:24:27.760> but<00:24:28.000> he<00:24:28.159> could<00:24:28.320> not<00:24:28.480> get<00:24:28.640> any<00:24:28.960> response.

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Her<00:24:30.159> roommate,<00:24:30.720> Susan,<00:24:31.200> had<00:24:31.440> brought<00:24:31.679> her<00:24:31.919> into<00:24:32.159> the<00:24:32.400> hospital.

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So<00:24:33.440> Greyson<00:24:34.000> left<00:24:34.159> a<00:24:34.400> staff<00:24:34.720> member<00:24:34.960> with<00:24:35.200> the<00:24:35.360> unconscious<00:24:35.919> patient<00:24:36.400> and<00:24:36.640> walked<00:24:36.960> about<00:24:37.360> 50<00:24:37.679> yards<00:24:38.080> down<00:24:38.320> the<00:24:38.559> hallway<00:24:39.200> to<00:24:39.520> interview<00:24:40.000> Susan<00:24:40.480> in<00:24:40.720> another<00:24:41.120> room.

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He<00:24:42.080> needed<00:24:42.320> to<00:24:42.559> understand<00:24:42.880> what<00:24:43.120> had<00:24:43.360> happened.

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What<00:24:44.159> had<00:24:44.320> she<00:24:44.480> taken?<00:24:44.960> What<00:24:45.200> was<00:24:45.600> going<00:24:45.760> on<00:24:45.919> in<00:24:46.159> her<00:24:46.320> life?

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Was<00:24:46.799> this<00:24:46.960> a<00:24:47.360> suicide<00:24:47.840> attempt?<00:24:48.960> It<00:24:49.200> was<00:24:49.360> late<00:24:49.760> summer<00:24:50.080> in<00:24:50.320> Virginia<00:24:51.039> and<00:24:51.279> the<00:24:51.440> hospital<00:24:51.840> had<00:24:52.080> no<00:24:52.240> air<00:24:52.480> conditioning.

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So<00:24:53.679> Greyson<00:24:54.159> was<00:24:54.320> sweating<00:24:54.720> inside<00:24:55.039> his<00:24:55.360> coat.

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And<00:24:56.480> while<00:24:56.720> he<00:24:56.880> was<00:24:57.039> talking<00:24:57.200> to<00:24:57.360> Susan,<00:24:57.840> he<00:24:58.159> finally<00:24:58.880> unbuttoned<00:24:59.520> it.

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And<00:25:00.480> for<00:25:00.640> the<00:25:00.799> first<00:25:00.960> time,<00:25:01.120> the<00:25:01.360> spaghetti<00:25:01.840> stain<00:25:02.159> had<00:25:02.400> become<00:25:02.720> visible.

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They<00:25:03.760> spoke<00:25:04.000> for<00:25:04.240> about<00:25:04.480> 20<00:25:04.799> minutes.<00:25:05.200> Then<00:25:05.520> Greyson<00:25:06.080> stood<00:25:06.320> up,<00:25:06.960> noticed<00:25:07.360> that<00:25:07.600> the<00:25:07.760> stain<00:25:08.000> was<00:25:08.240> showing,<00:25:08.720> and<00:25:08.960> quickly<00:25:09.279> buttoned<00:25:09.600> up<00:25:09.760> his<00:25:09.919> coat<00:25:10.159> again.

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He<00:25:11.120> walked<00:25:11.440> back<00:25:11.600> down<00:25:11.840> the<00:25:12.000> hallway<00:25:12.559> and<00:25:12.799> the<00:25:13.039> patient<00:25:13.360> was<00:25:13.600> still<00:25:13.840> unconscious.

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According<00:25:15.600> to<00:25:15.760> the<00:25:15.919> person<00:25:16.240> sitting<00:25:16.480> with<00:25:16.640> her,<00:25:17.120> she<00:25:17.279> had<00:25:17.520> never<00:25:17.679> woken<00:25:18.080> up.

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So,<00:25:19.200> they<00:25:19.440> admitted<00:25:19.840> her<00:25:20.000> to<00:25:20.240> intensive<00:25:20.880> care<00:25:21.200> for<00:25:21.360> the<00:25:21.520> night.

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And<00:25:22.480> the<00:25:22.720> following<00:25:23.120> morning,<00:25:23.520> Greyson<00:25:24.000> went<00:25:24.159> to<00:25:24.400> see<00:25:24.559> her<00:25:24.720> again.

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She<00:25:25.600> was<00:25:25.679> awake,<00:25:26.080> but<00:25:26.400> just<00:25:26.720> barely.<00:25:27.840> She<00:25:28.080> was<00:25:28.159> still<00:25:28.400> so<00:25:28.559> groggy<00:25:28.960> that<00:25:29.120> she<00:25:29.279> could<00:25:29.440> hardly<00:25:29.919> open<00:25:30.240> her<00:25:30.480> eyes.

00:25:31.520 --> 00:25:37.919
Greyson<00:25:32.000> started<00:25:32.400> introducing<00:25:32.880> himself,<00:25:33.440> and<00:25:33.679> before<00:25:34.000> he<00:25:34.240> could<00:25:34.400> finish,<00:25:34.720> she<00:25:35.039> told<00:25:35.200> him<00:25:35.440> that<00:25:35.679> she<00:25:35.840> already<00:25:36.159> knew<00:25:36.480> who<00:25:36.640> he<00:25:36.960> was.

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She<00:25:38.159> remembered<00:25:38.559> him<00:25:38.720> from<00:25:38.960> the<00:25:39.120> night<00:25:39.360> before.<00:25:40.240> And<00:25:40.480> Greyson<00:25:40.960> was<00:25:41.279> obviously<00:25:42.080> confused<00:25:42.799> because<00:25:43.120> as<00:25:43.360> far<00:25:43.520> as<00:25:43.600> he<00:25:43.760> knew,<00:25:44.240> she<00:25:44.400> had<00:25:44.640> been<00:25:45.039> completely<00:25:45.520> unconscious<00:25:46.080> the

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entire<00:25:46.720> time<00:25:46.880> he<00:25:47.120> was<00:25:47.200> with<00:25:47.440> her.<00:25:48.000> So<00:25:48.240> he<00:25:48.400> told<00:25:48.559> her<00:25:48.799> that<00:25:49.440> and<00:25:49.679> she<00:25:49.840> said,<00:25:50.480> "Not<00:25:50.880> in<00:25:51.120> my<00:25:51.360> room.

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I<00:25:52.159> saw<00:25:52.400> you<00:25:52.720> talking<00:25:53.120> to<00:25:53.360> Susan<00:25:53.919> down<00:25:54.240> the<00:25:54.559> hall."

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I<00:25:56.000> mean,<00:25:56.159> what<00:25:56.400> do<00:25:56.480> you<00:25:56.640> even<00:25:56.960> say<00:25:57.200> to<00:25:57.360> that?

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Greyson<00:25:58.480> had<00:25:58.720> spent<00:25:58.880> his<00:25:59.120> entire<00:25:59.440> life<00:25:59.679> believing<00:26:00.000> that<00:26:00.240> you<00:26:00.400> were<00:26:00.640> your<00:26:00.880> physical<00:26:01.279> body.

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So<00:26:02.400> the<00:26:02.640> idea<00:26:02.880> that<00:26:03.120> this<00:26:03.360> woman<00:26:03.760> somehow<00:26:04.400> had<00:26:04.640> left<00:26:04.960> hers,<00:26:05.840> followed<00:26:06.240> him<00:26:06.480> down<00:26:06.640> the<00:26:06.880> hallway<00:26:07.279> and<00:26:07.520> entered<00:26:07.919> another<00:26:08.240> room<00:26:08.480> made<00:26:08.799> absolutely<00:26:09.279> no<00:26:09.600> sense<00:26:09.840> to<00:26:10.000> him.

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But<00:26:11.200> then<00:26:11.440> she<00:26:11.679> started<00:26:12.000> describing<00:26:12.559> the<00:26:12.880> scene<00:26:13.679> where<00:26:14.000> Greyson<00:26:14.400> and<00:26:14.640> Susan<00:26:15.039> had<00:26:15.279> been<00:26:15.440> sitting,<00:26:16.320> the<00:26:16.640> questions<00:26:17.039> Greyson<00:26:17.600> asked,<00:26:18.400> the<00:26:18.720> answers<00:26:19.120> Susan

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gave,<00:26:20.159> parts<00:26:20.400> of<00:26:20.480> a<00:26:20.720> conversation<00:26:21.039> that<00:26:21.360> happened<00:26:21.760> 50<00:26:22.159> yards<00:26:22.720> away<00:26:23.200> from<00:26:23.520> her<00:26:23.840> unconscious<00:26:24.480> body.

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That<00:26:25.840> is<00:26:26.240> half<00:26:26.720> of<00:26:26.880> a<00:26:27.120> football<00:26:27.440> field.

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And<00:26:28.799> then<00:26:28.960> she<00:26:29.200> mentioned<00:26:29.520> the<00:26:29.760> detail<00:26:30.080> that<00:26:30.480> completely<00:26:30.960> rattled<00:26:31.440> him.

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She<00:26:32.320> told<00:26:32.559> him,<00:26:33.360> "And<00:26:33.600> you<00:26:33.840> had<00:26:34.000> a<00:26:34.159> red<00:26:34.400> stain<00:26:34.640> on<00:26:34.880> your<00:26:35.039> tie."

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And<00:26:36.480> this<00:26:36.640> is<00:26:36.720> the<00:26:36.960> part<00:26:37.039> of<00:26:37.200> the<00:26:37.360> case<00:26:37.520> that<00:26:37.760> is<00:26:38.000> so<00:26:38.320> difficult<00:26:38.720> to<00:26:38.880> get<00:26:39.120> around.

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The<00:26:40.000> stain<00:26:40.320> was<00:26:40.559> hidden<00:26:40.960> the<00:26:41.279> entire<00:26:41.760> time<00:26:42.080> Greyson<00:26:42.559> was<00:26:42.720> near<00:26:42.880> the<00:26:43.120> patient.

00:26:43.919 --> 00:26:46.720
He<00:26:44.159> had<00:26:44.320> buttoned<00:26:44.720> his<00:26:44.880> coat<00:26:45.200> before<00:26:45.600> entering<00:26:45.919> her<00:26:46.159> room.

00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:53.840
It<00:26:46.880> had<00:26:47.120> only<00:26:47.279> become<00:26:47.600> visible<00:26:48.240> after<00:26:48.559> he<00:26:48.799> walked<00:26:49.120> down<00:26:49.279> the<00:26:49.440> hallway,<00:26:50.000> entered<00:26:50.640> a<00:26:50.880> different<00:26:51.200> room,<00:26:51.440> and<00:26:51.679> opened<00:26:51.919> the<00:26:52.080> coat<00:26:52.400> while<00:26:52.640> speaking<00:26:52.880> to<00:26:53.039> Susan.

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Then<00:26:54.080> he<00:26:54.320> covered<00:26:54.640> it<00:26:54.880> again<00:26:55.200> before<00:26:55.520> returning.

00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:02.640
So,<00:26:56.799> the<00:26:56.960> patient<00:26:57.360> did<00:26:57.520> not<00:26:57.679> merely<00:26:58.080> know<00:26:58.320> that<00:26:58.640> Greyson<00:26:59.200> had<00:26:59.440> spoken<00:26:59.760> to<00:26:59.919> her<00:27:00.159> roommate,<00:27:00.640> as<00:27:00.960> amazing<00:27:01.279> as<00:27:01.440> that<00:27:01.679> is.

00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:08.720
She<00:27:02.960> described<00:27:03.440> the<00:27:03.760> embarrassing<00:27:04.480> little<00:27:04.799> detail<00:27:05.279> he<00:27:05.520> had<00:27:05.679> intentionally<00:27:06.400> hidden<00:27:06.799> from<00:27:07.120> everyone<00:27:07.600> else.

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And<00:27:08.960> Greyson's<00:27:09.600> first<00:27:09.840> reaction<00:27:10.320> was<00:27:10.559> not<00:27:11.039> belief.

00:27:11.679 --> 00:27:16.240
He<00:27:11.840> did<00:27:12.000> not<00:27:12.159> think,<00:27:12.720> "I<00:27:13.120> just<00:27:13.279> witnessed<00:27:13.600> proof<00:27:13.919> that<00:27:14.240> consciousness<00:27:14.880> can<00:27:15.039> leave<00:27:15.279> the<00:27:15.520> body."

00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:19.440
He<00:27:16.480> thought<00:27:16.720> someone<00:27:17.120> had<00:27:17.360> to<00:27:17.520> be<00:27:17.679> playing<00:27:17.919> a<00:27:18.240> trick<00:27:18.480> on<00:27:18.720> him.

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Maybe<00:27:19.679> the<00:27:19.919> nurses<00:27:20.320> had<00:27:20.799> somehow<00:27:21.360> told<00:27:21.679> her.

00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:30.720
Maybe<00:27:22.799> everyone<00:27:23.200> was<00:27:23.440> conspiring<00:27:24.000> to<00:27:24.240> embarrass<00:27:24.640> the<00:27:24.880> new<00:27:25.039> intern<00:27:25.919> because<00:27:26.159> in<00:27:26.480> his<00:27:26.720> mind<00:27:27.360> that<00:27:27.600> explanation<00:27:28.240> was<00:27:28.880> more<00:27:29.200> plausible<00:27:29.600> than<00:27:29.840> what<00:27:30.000> the<00:27:30.159> patient<00:27:30.480> was

00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:36.000
claiming.<00:27:31.760> And<00:27:31.919> I<00:27:32.159> think<00:27:32.320> this<00:27:32.640> matters<00:27:33.200> because<00:27:33.760> Greyson<00:27:34.320> did<00:27:34.559> not<00:27:34.720> leave<00:27:34.960> that<00:27:35.200> room<00:27:35.440> inspired.

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:43.039
He<00:27:36.159> left<00:27:36.320> it<00:27:36.559> disturbed.<00:27:37.120> The<00:27:37.360> experience<00:27:37.840> contradicted<00:27:38.480> almost<00:27:38.880> everything<00:27:39.279> he<00:27:39.600> believed<00:27:40.159> and<00:27:40.400> he<00:27:40.720> didn't<00:27:40.960> know<00:27:41.279> what<00:27:41.520> to<00:27:41.679> do<00:27:41.760> with<00:27:42.000> it.

00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:51.679
So<00:27:43.279> let's<00:27:43.520> recap<00:27:43.919> where<00:27:44.159> we<00:27:44.320> are:<00:27:44.640> a<00:27:44.880> glass<00:27:45.120> vial,<00:27:45.760> a<00:27:45.919> hidden<00:27:46.320> stain,<00:27:47.200> a<00:27:47.440> private<00:27:47.840> conversation,<00:27:49.440> three<00:27:49.760> pieces<00:27:50.080> of<00:27:50.320> information<00:27:50.640> from<00:27:50.960> places<00:27:51.279> the

00:27:51.679 --> 00:28:00.399
person's<00:27:52.080> body<00:27:52.480> never<00:27:52.720> went.<00:27:53.600> And<00:27:53.760> once<00:27:54.080> you<00:27:54.320> see<00:27:54.480> that<00:27:54.799> structure,<00:27:55.600> the<00:27:55.919> rest<00:27:56.080> of<00:27:56.240> this<00:27:56.480> clue<00:27:56.799> starts<00:27:57.120> to<00:27:57.279> feel<00:27:57.440> like<00:27:57.679> one<00:27:57.919> impossible<00:27:58.640> variation<00:27:59.360> after<00:27:59.760> another.

00:28:00.399 --> 00:28:07.919
One<00:28:00.640> of<00:28:00.720> the<00:28:00.880> stranger<00:28:01.360> stories<00:28:01.679> begins<00:28:02.000> in<00:28:02.240> 1994<00:28:02.960> with<00:28:03.120> a<00:28:03.440> 17-year-old<00:28:04.159> girl<00:28:04.399> waking<00:28:04.720> up<00:28:04.880> after<00:28:05.200> spending<00:28:05.679> 2<00:28:05.919> weeks<00:28:06.399> in<00:28:06.640> a<00:28:06.799> coma.

00:28:07.919 --> 00:28:12.399
And<00:28:08.080> she<00:28:08.320> told<00:28:08.640> her<00:28:08.799> mother<00:28:09.039> that<00:28:09.279> she<00:28:09.440> had<00:28:09.600> seen<00:28:09.840> both<00:28:10.080> of<00:28:10.240> her<00:28:10.480> grandmothers<00:28:11.120> smoking.

00:28:12.399 --> 00:28:20.720
Her<00:28:12.640> name<00:28:12.799> was<00:28:13.120> Michaela.<00:28:13.679> She<00:28:13.840> had<00:28:14.000> been<00:28:14.159> badly<00:28:14.559> injured<00:28:14.960> in<00:28:15.120> a<00:28:15.360> car<00:28:15.520> accident,<00:28:16.240> suffered<00:28:16.559> a<00:28:16.799> serious<00:28:17.039> brain<00:28:17.360> injury,<00:28:17.840> and<00:28:18.000> was<00:28:18.240> flown<00:28:18.480> to<00:28:18.640> the<00:28:18.880> hospital<00:28:19.279> by<00:28:19.520> helicopter.

00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:27.440
While<00:28:20.960> she<00:28:21.200> was<00:28:21.360> lying<00:28:21.760> unconscious,<00:28:22.960> Michaela<00:28:23.520> said<00:28:23.760> she<00:28:24.000> found<00:28:24.240> herself<00:28:24.880> above<00:28:25.760> the<00:28:26.080> hospital<00:28:26.559> room.

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But<00:28:27.600> then<00:28:27.760> her<00:28:28.000> awareness<00:28:28.480> moved<00:28:28.880> somewhere<00:28:29.279> else.

00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:36.480
She<00:28:30.799> saw<00:28:31.039> her<00:28:31.279> parents<00:28:31.679> and<00:28:31.919> both<00:28:32.320> grandmothers<00:28:33.039> sitting<00:28:33.360> together<00:28:33.760> in<00:28:34.080> the<00:28:34.240> hospital<00:28:34.799> cafeteria.

00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:42.000
Now,<00:28:36.799> her<00:28:37.039> father<00:28:37.279> was<00:28:37.440> a<00:28:37.600> smoker,<00:28:37.919> and<00:28:38.159> with<00:28:38.399> everything<00:28:38.799> happening,<00:28:39.440> he<00:28:39.600> said<00:28:39.840> he<00:28:40.000> needed<00:28:40.240> to<00:28:40.399> get<00:28:40.480> out<00:28:40.640> and<00:28:40.880> have<00:28:40.960> a<00:28:41.200> cigarette.

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:50.399
And<00:28:42.159> then<00:28:42.399> Michaela's<00:28:43.039> grandmother,<00:28:43.840> a<00:28:44.080> woman<00:28:44.240> who<00:28:44.480> had<00:28:44.880> never<00:28:45.279> smoked<00:28:46.080> and<00:28:46.320> ordinarily<00:28:47.039> never<00:28:47.360> would,<00:28:48.320> said<00:28:48.559> that<00:28:48.799> she<00:28:48.960> had<00:28:49.200> needed<00:28:49.600> one.

00:28:50.399 --> 00:28:53.679
And<00:28:50.559> then<00:28:50.720> apparently<00:28:51.200> her<00:28:51.520> other<00:28:51.760> grandmother<00:28:52.399> joined<00:28:52.799> in.

00:28:53.679 --> 00:28:58.559
Two<00:28:53.919> weeks<00:28:54.159> later,<00:28:54.720> Michaela<00:28:55.279> woke<00:28:55.520> up<00:28:55.600> from<00:28:55.760> the<00:28:55.919> coma<00:28:56.240> and<00:28:56.480> told<00:28:56.720> her<00:28:56.880> mother<00:28:57.200> what<00:28:57.360> she<00:28:57.520> had<00:28:57.760> seen.

00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.480
And<00:28:58.799> according<00:28:59.200> to<00:28:59.279> the<00:28:59.600> account,<00:28:59.919> her<00:29:00.159> mother<00:29:00.480> confirmed<00:29:00.960> that<00:29:01.200> it<00:29:01.440> happened.

00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:07.840
Now,<00:29:02.799> obviously,<00:29:03.279> imagining<00:29:03.760> that<00:29:03.919> your<00:29:04.159> family<00:29:04.399> is<00:29:04.640> somewhere<00:29:04.960> inside<00:29:05.200> the<00:29:05.440> hospital<00:29:05.840> is<00:29:06.080> not<00:29:06.399> the<00:29:06.640> remarkable<00:29:07.200> part.

00:29:07.840 --> 00:29:15.600
The<00:29:08.080> remarkable<00:29:08.559> part<00:29:08.799> is<00:29:08.960> the<00:29:09.200> grandmother.<00:29:10.399> Under<00:29:10.720> the<00:29:10.880> stress<00:29:11.120> of<00:29:11.279> that<00:29:11.440> moment,<00:29:11.760> she<00:29:12.000> apparently<00:29:12.399> did<00:29:12.640> something<00:29:12.960> so<00:29:13.360> completely<00:29:13.840> out<00:29:14.000> of<00:29:14.159> character<00:29:14.640> that<00:29:15.039> Michaela

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never<00:29:15.840> would<00:29:16.080> have<00:29:16.399> expected<00:29:16.880> it.<00:29:17.600> And<00:29:17.760> that<00:29:18.000> is<00:29:18.080> what<00:29:18.320> makes<00:29:18.559> this<00:29:18.720> case<00:29:19.039> so<00:29:19.360> hard<00:29:19.600> to<00:29:19.840> reduce<00:29:20.159> to<00:29:20.399> a<00:29:20.559> generic<00:29:21.039> dream.

00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:24.640
She<00:29:22.320> did<00:29:22.480> not<00:29:22.559> merely<00:29:22.960> picture<00:29:23.279> her<00:29:23.440> family<00:29:23.760> waiting<00:29:24.000> for<00:29:24.240> her.

00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:32.320
She<00:29:24.799> seemed<00:29:25.120> to<00:29:25.279> catch<00:29:25.600> one<00:29:25.919> strange,<00:29:26.720> unplanned<00:29:27.440> human<00:29:27.840> moment<00:29:28.480> happening<00:29:28.960> somewhere<00:29:29.520> else<00:29:30.000> while<00:29:30.320> her<00:29:30.480> body<00:29:30.720> was<00:29:30.880> still<00:29:31.039> in<00:29:31.200> a<00:29:31.360> coma.

00:29:32.320 --> 00:29:38.640
And<00:29:32.559> then<00:29:32.720> there's<00:29:33.039> the<00:29:33.279> quarter.<00:29:34.240> This<00:29:34.399> one<00:29:34.640> almost<00:29:35.039> sounds<00:29:35.279> like<00:29:35.520> someone<00:29:35.919> designed<00:29:36.320> an<00:29:36.559> experiment,<00:29:37.200> except<00:29:37.520> no<00:29:37.760> one<00:29:37.919> did.

00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:45.120
An<00:29:38.880> 82-year-old<00:29:39.760> man<00:29:40.000> named<00:29:40.320> Ricardo<00:29:41.120> collapsed<00:29:41.520> during<00:29:41.840> dinner<00:29:42.080> and<00:29:42.240> was<00:29:42.480> rushed<00:29:42.799> to<00:29:42.960> an<00:29:43.120> emergency<00:29:43.600> room<00:29:43.840> in<00:29:44.159> San<00:29:44.320> Antonio.

00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:49.919
His<00:29:45.360> heart<00:29:45.600> stopped<00:29:46.000> twice<00:29:46.320> that<00:29:46.559> night,<00:29:46.960> but<00:29:47.120> the<00:29:47.360> medical<00:29:47.760> team<00:29:48.080> managed<00:29:48.480> to<00:29:48.720> bring<00:29:48.880> him<00:29:49.120> back.

00:29:49.919 --> 00:29:55.600
The<00:29:50.159> next<00:29:50.320> day,<00:29:50.720> Ricardo<00:29:51.279> waved<00:29:51.679> over<00:29:52.000> the<00:29:52.240> young<00:29:52.480> doctor<00:29:53.279> who<00:29:53.520> had<00:29:53.679> treated<00:29:54.000> him,<00:29:54.320> John<00:29:54.640> Lurma.

00:29:55.600 --> 00:30:00.799
He<00:29:55.840> wanted<00:29:56.080> to<00:29:56.240> know<00:29:56.399> whether<00:29:56.720> what<00:29:56.960> he<00:29:57.120> had<00:29:57.360> experienced<00:29:58.000> had<00:29:58.320> been<00:29:58.480> real<00:29:58.720> or<00:29:59.039> just<00:29:59.200> some<00:29:59.440> kind<00:29:59.679> of<00:29:59.919> dream.

00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:09.520
Ricardo<00:30:01.360> said<00:30:01.520> that<00:30:01.679> while<00:30:02.000> he<00:30:02.159> was<00:30:02.320> floating<00:30:02.559> above<00:30:02.880> the<00:30:03.039> trauma<00:30:03.360> room,<00:30:04.080> he<00:30:04.320> noticed<00:30:04.799> a<00:30:05.039> dusty<00:30:05.520> quarter<00:30:06.000> sitting<00:30:06.640> on<00:30:06.880> the<00:30:07.039> right<00:30:07.360> hand<00:30:07.679> corner<00:30:08.000> of<00:30:08.240> one<00:30:08.480> of<00:30:08.640> the<00:30:08.880> cardiac

00:30:09.520 --> 00:30:13.440
monitors.<00:30:10.559> Then<00:30:10.799> he<00:30:10.960> gave<00:30:11.200> Lurma<00:30:12.000> one<00:30:12.320> more<00:30:12.559> detail.

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.960
The<00:30:13.679> quarter<00:30:14.080> was<00:30:14.320> dated<00:30:14.960> 1985.

00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:26.159
So<00:30:17.300> Lurma<00:30:17.640> went<00:30:17.980> back<00:30:18.320> into<00:30:18.660> the<00:30:19.000> emergency<00:30:19.340> room,<00:30:19.680> found<00:30:20.020> a<00:30:20.360> ladder,<00:30:20.700> and<00:30:21.040> climbed<00:30:21.380> to<00:30:21.720> the<00:30:22.060> top<00:30:22.400> of<00:30:22.740> an<00:30:23.080> 8-foot<00:30:23.420> monitor<00:30:23.760> in<00:30:24.100> front<00:30:24.440> of<00:30:24.780> several<00:30:25.120> nurses.

00:30:26.159 --> 00:30:32.799
The<00:30:26.399> quarter<00:30:26.799> was<00:30:27.039> there<00:30:27.520> in<00:30:27.840> the<00:30:28.000> exact<00:30:28.320> place<00:30:28.640> Ricardo<00:30:29.279> had<00:30:29.600> described<00:30:30.399> and<00:30:30.640> the<00:30:30.799> date<00:30:31.039> was<00:30:31.360> 1985.

00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:36.880
And<00:30:32.960> this<00:30:33.200> is<00:30:33.360> the<00:30:33.600> part<00:30:33.760> that<00:30:34.080> makes<00:30:34.320> the<00:30:34.559> story<00:30:34.880> so<00:30:35.279> difficult<00:30:35.600> to<00:30:35.840> shrug<00:30:36.159> off.

00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:39.039
Ricardo<00:30:37.440> was<00:30:37.600> 82<00:30:38.159> years<00:30:38.399> old.

00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:43.520
According<00:30:39.360> to<00:30:39.600> Lurma,<00:30:40.000> he<00:30:40.159> had<00:30:40.320> not<00:30:40.399> been<00:30:40.559> physically<00:30:40.960> capable<00:30:41.279> of<00:30:41.520> climbing<00:30:41.760> a<00:30:42.000> ladder<00:30:42.240> for<00:30:42.559> years.

00:30:43.520 --> 00:30:47.919
He<00:30:43.760> had<00:30:43.919> no<00:30:44.240> known<00:30:44.720> connection<00:30:45.120> to<00:30:45.360> anyone<00:30:45.840> working<00:30:46.159> in<00:30:46.399> that<00:30:46.640> emergency<00:30:47.039> room.

00:30:47.919 --> 00:30:56.080
So,<00:30:48.252> how<00:30:48.586> did<00:30:48.919> he<00:30:49.252> know<00:30:49.586> there<00:30:49.919> was<00:30:50.252> a<00:30:50.586> dusty<00:30:50.919> quarter,<00:30:51.252> a<00:30:51.586> one<00:30:51.919> specific<00:30:52.252> corner<00:30:52.586> of<00:30:52.919> an<00:30:53.252> 8-foot<00:30:53.586> monitor,<00:30:53.919> and<00:30:54.252> know<00:30:54.586> the<00:30:54.919> exact<00:30:55.252> year<00:30:55.586> stamped<00:30:55.919> on

00:30:56.080 --> 00:30:58.640
it<00:30:56.320> before<00:30:56.720> anyone<00:30:57.200> climbed<00:30:57.600> up<00:30:57.760> to<00:30:58.000> check?

00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:06.080
Now,<00:30:58.928> look,<00:30:59.216> if<00:30:59.504> the<00:30:59.792> physical<00:31:00.080> world<00:31:00.368> is<00:31:00.656> all<00:31:00.944> you<00:31:01.232> believe<00:31:01.520> exists,<00:31:01.808> of<00:31:02.096> course,<00:31:02.384> your<00:31:02.672> first<00:31:02.960> instinct<00:31:03.248> is<00:31:03.536> going<00:31:03.824> to<00:31:04.112> be<00:31:04.400> to<00:31:04.688> reach<00:31:04.976> for<00:31:05.264> another<00:31:05.552> explanation,<00:31:05.840> as

00:31:06.080 --> 00:31:14.399
did<00:31:06.320> I<00:31:06.640> at<00:31:06.880> one<00:31:07.120> point.<00:31:07.760> But<00:31:07.840> the<00:31:08.080> farther<00:31:08.559> you<00:31:08.799> get<00:31:08.960> into<00:31:09.200> this<00:31:09.440> literature,<00:31:10.159> the<00:31:10.399> stranger<00:31:10.880> the<00:31:11.120> alternative<00:31:11.760> explanations<00:31:12.480> become,<00:31:13.600> because<00:31:13.919> now<00:31:14.159> you're

00:31:14.399 --> 00:31:16.799
not<00:31:14.559> trying<00:31:14.799> to<00:31:14.960> explain<00:31:15.360> one<00:31:15.679> unusual<00:31:16.240> story.

00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:24.240
You're<00:31:17.120> trying<00:31:17.279> to<00:31:17.440> explain<00:31:17.760> the<00:31:18.000> medicine<00:31:18.320> vial,<00:31:18.799> the<00:31:18.960> hidden<00:31:19.279> stain,<00:31:20.000> the<00:31:20.240> conversation<00:31:20.799> down<00:31:21.039> the<00:31:21.200> hallway,<00:31:21.840> the<00:31:22.080> grandmother<00:31:22.559> who<00:31:22.799> suddenly<00:31:23.120> asks<00:31:23.360> for<00:31:23.520> a<00:31:23.679> cigarette,

00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:27.520
and<00:31:24.399> the<00:31:24.640> quarter<00:31:25.120> on<00:31:25.360> top<00:31:25.600> of<00:31:25.840> an<00:31:26.000> 8-foot<00:31:26.640> monitor.

00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:31.600
And<00:31:27.760> every<00:31:28.080> case<00:31:28.399> seems<00:31:28.640> to<00:31:28.880> require<00:31:29.120> a<00:31:29.440> completely<00:31:29.840> different<00:31:30.240> escape<00:31:30.720> hatch.

00:31:31.600 --> 00:31:33.840
At<00:31:31.840> some<00:31:32.000> point,<00:31:32.240> you<00:31:32.399> have<00:31:32.480> to<00:31:32.640> notice<00:31:32.960> the<00:31:33.200> irony.

00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:41.279
The<00:31:34.080> explanations<00:31:34.799> meant<00:31:35.120> to<00:31:35.279> make<00:31:35.360> these<00:31:35.679> cases<00:31:36.000> seem<00:31:36.240> less<00:31:36.559> strange<00:31:37.200> are<00:31:37.519> starting<00:31:37.919> to<00:31:38.080> become<00:31:38.559> stranger<00:31:38.960> than<00:31:39.200> the<00:31:39.440> stories<00:31:39.840> themselves.

00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:46.559
So,<00:31:41.519> when<00:31:41.679> you<00:31:41.840> zoom<00:31:42.159> out,<00:31:42.480> these<00:31:42.799> first<00:31:43.120> two<00:31:43.360> clues<00:31:43.840> have<00:31:44.080> really<00:31:44.480> been<00:31:44.720> asking<00:31:45.120> the<00:31:45.440> same<00:31:45.679> question.

00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:51.760
How<00:31:46.799> did<00:31:47.039> information<00:31:47.519> reach<00:31:47.840> the<00:31:48.000> mind<00:31:48.559> when<00:31:48.880> the<00:31:49.039> body<00:31:49.360> should<00:31:49.600> not<00:31:49.760> have<00:31:49.919> been<00:31:50.159> able<00:31:50.320> to<00:31:50.559> receive<00:31:50.880> it?

00:31:51.760 --> 00:31:54.720
First,<00:31:52.159> people<00:31:52.480> described<00:31:52.880> what<00:31:53.120> happened<00:31:53.440> around<00:31:53.760> their<00:31:54.000> bodies.

00:31:54.720 --> 00:32:02.880
Then,<00:31:54.960> the<00:31:55.200> information<00:31:55.679> moved<00:31:56.080> beyond<00:31:56.399> the<00:31:56.720> room,<00:31:57.039> down<00:31:57.440> hallways,<00:31:58.080> into<00:31:58.399> cafeterias,<00:31:59.519> onto<00:31:59.919> high<00:32:00.240> shelves,<00:32:00.880> sometimes<00:32:01.279> even<00:32:01.600> across<00:32:01.919> town.

00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:09.120
At<00:32:03.120> that<00:32:03.360> point,<00:32:03.600> there<00:32:03.840> was<00:32:04.000> no<00:32:04.399> obvious<00:32:04.799> way<00:32:05.039> for<00:32:05.279> their<00:32:05.519> eyes,<00:32:05.919> ears,<00:32:06.240> and<00:32:06.480> any<00:32:06.640> other<00:32:06.880> sense<00:32:07.200> to<00:32:07.440> reach<00:32:07.840> what<00:32:08.080> they<00:32:08.399> described.

00:32:09.120 --> 00:32:15.760
But<00:32:09.360> there<00:32:09.519> is<00:32:09.760> one<00:32:10.000> final<00:32:10.399> group<00:32:10.559> of<00:32:10.799> cases<00:32:11.360> and<00:32:11.600> now<00:32:11.760> the<00:32:12.000> condition<00:32:12.320> of<00:32:12.559> the<00:32:12.799> body<00:32:13.039> itself<00:32:13.760> becomes<00:32:14.159> part<00:32:14.480> of<00:32:14.640> the<00:32:14.880> mystery.

00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:23.120
During<00:32:16.080> certain<00:32:16.399> surgeries<00:32:16.880> and<00:32:17.039> cardiac<00:32:17.440> arrest,<00:32:18.000> the<00:32:18.320> normal<00:32:18.640> ways<00:32:18.960> we<00:32:19.200> experience<00:32:19.600> the<00:32:19.840> world<00:32:20.080> can<00:32:20.320> be<00:32:20.480> blocked<00:32:20.880> or<00:32:21.200> shut<00:32:21.519> down<00:32:21.760> almost<00:32:22.159> completely.

00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:30.480
So<00:32:23.279> the<00:32:23.519> eyes<00:32:23.760> may<00:32:24.000> be<00:32:24.159> taped<00:32:24.480> shut,<00:32:25.200> the<00:32:25.440> ear<00:32:25.600> is<00:32:25.840> filled<00:32:26.080> with<00:32:26.240> monitoring<00:32:26.720> devices<00:32:27.279> and<00:32:27.440> the<00:32:27.679> patient<00:32:28.080> placed<00:32:28.399> under<00:32:28.799> deep<00:32:29.120> anesthesia.

00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:37.120
In<00:32:30.720> the<00:32:30.880> most<00:32:31.120> extreme<00:32:31.600> cases,<00:32:32.159> the<00:32:32.399> heart<00:32:32.640> is<00:32:32.799> stopped<00:32:33.200> and<00:32:33.360> the<00:32:33.600> blood<00:32:33.840> is<00:32:34.159> no<00:32:34.399> longer<00:32:34.799> circulating<00:32:35.360> normally<00:32:35.840> to<00:32:36.000> the<00:32:36.159> brain.

00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:45.840
So<00:32:37.360> now<00:32:37.519> the<00:32:37.840> question<00:32:38.080> is<00:32:38.320> not<00:32:38.559> only<00:32:39.039> how<00:32:39.279> they<00:32:39.519> knew<00:32:39.760> what<00:32:40.000> was<00:32:40.159> happening,<00:32:40.960> it's<00:32:41.200> how<00:32:41.440> they<00:32:41.600> were<00:32:41.760> having<00:32:42.000> a<00:32:42.320> clear<00:32:42.720> organized<00:32:43.360> experience<00:32:43.840> at<00:32:44.080> all<00:32:44.720> when<00:32:45.120> sight,

00:32:45.840 --> 00:32:50.080
hearing,<00:32:46.320> and<00:32:46.640> normal<00:32:47.039> brain<00:32:47.360> function<00:32:47.760> had<00:32:48.080> been<00:32:48.159> suppressed<00:32:48.720> so<00:32:49.200> completely.

00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:55.360
Now,<00:32:50.320> the<00:32:50.480> first<00:32:50.640> case<00:32:50.799> in<00:32:51.039> this<00:32:51.200> final<00:32:51.440> clue<00:32:51.760> is<00:32:52.000> probably<00:32:52.320> the<00:32:52.640> most<00:32:52.799> famous<00:32:53.120> in<00:32:53.360> the<00:32:53.519> history<00:32:53.760> of<00:32:53.919> near-death<00:32:54.480> research.

00:32:55.360 --> 00:33:02.320
If<00:32:55.519> you<00:32:55.600> spent<00:32:55.840> any<00:32:56.080> time<00:32:56.320> around<00:32:56.559> the<00:32:56.720> subject,<00:32:57.360> there's<00:32:57.600> a<00:32:57.760> good<00:32:58.000> chance<00:32:58.240> you've<00:32:58.480> heard<00:32:58.720> the<00:32:58.880> name<00:32:59.120> Pam<00:32:59.519> Reynolds,<00:33:00.240> but<00:33:00.399> the<00:33:00.640> story<00:33:00.799> is<00:33:01.039> usually<00:33:01.360> told<00:33:01.600> in<00:33:01.760> a<00:33:01.919> way<00:33:02.080> that

00:33:02.320 --> 00:33:05.519
makes<00:33:02.480> it<00:33:02.799> much<00:33:03.120> harder<00:33:03.519> to<00:33:03.760> understand<00:33:04.240> than<00:33:04.480> it<00:33:04.640> needs<00:33:04.880> to<00:33:05.039> be.

00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:10.720
People<00:33:06.240> usually<00:33:06.640> reduce<00:33:06.880> it<00:33:07.039> to<00:33:07.440> her<00:33:07.679> brain<00:33:08.000> was<00:33:08.159> dead<00:33:08.720> and<00:33:08.960> she<00:33:09.120> watched<00:33:09.440> her<00:33:09.600> operation.

00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:12.960
That's<00:33:11.039> not<00:33:11.440> exactly<00:33:12.000> what<00:33:12.320> happened.

00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:19.679
They're<00:33:13.279> really<00:33:13.519> two<00:33:13.760> different<00:33:14.000> moments<00:33:14.320> in<00:33:14.559> the<00:33:14.720> surgery<00:33:15.120> and<00:33:15.360> once<00:33:15.600> you<00:33:15.760> keep<00:33:15.919> them<00:33:16.159> separate,<00:33:16.799> the<00:33:17.120> whole<00:33:17.360> case<00:33:17.760> becomes<00:33:18.159> much<00:33:18.399> easier<00:33:18.799> to<00:33:18.960> follow.

00:33:19.679 --> 00:33:26.640
Now,<00:33:19.840> in<00:33:20.080> 1991,<00:33:20.880> Pam<00:33:21.360> was<00:33:21.600> 35<00:33:22.080> years<00:33:22.320> old<00:33:22.480> when<00:33:22.720> a<00:33:22.880> doctor<00:33:23.279> discovered<00:33:23.760> a<00:33:24.000> major<00:33:24.320> aneurysm<00:33:24.880> at<00:33:25.039> the<00:33:25.200> base<00:33:25.440> of<00:33:25.600> her<00:33:25.760> brain.

00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:33.840
Basically,<00:33:27.200> one<00:33:27.360> of<00:33:27.440> the<00:33:27.600> arteries<00:33:28.080> beneath<00:33:28.399> her<00:33:28.559> brain<00:33:28.799> had<00:33:29.039> started<00:33:29.440> ballooning<00:33:30.080> outward<00:33:30.960> and<00:33:31.120> if<00:33:31.279> it<00:33:31.519> ruptured,<00:33:31.919> she<00:33:32.080> could<00:33:32.240> die<00:33:32.480> almost<00:33:32.799> instantly.

00:33:33.840 --> 00:33:40.799
The<00:33:34.080> problem<00:33:34.399> was<00:33:34.559> where<00:33:34.799> it<00:33:34.960> was<00:33:35.120> located.<00:33:35.760> It<00:33:35.919> was<00:33:36.000> buried<00:33:36.399> so<00:33:36.799> deeply<00:33:37.360> that<00:33:37.679> the<00:33:37.840> doctors<00:33:38.240> could<00:33:38.480> not<00:33:38.559> reach<00:33:38.799> it<00:33:38.960> through<00:33:39.120> an<00:33:39.279> ordinary<00:33:39.760> operation.

00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:47.360
So<00:33:40.960> Pam<00:33:41.279> was<00:33:41.440> sent<00:33:41.679> to<00:33:41.840> a<00:33:42.000> surgeon<00:33:42.320> named<00:33:42.559> Robert<00:33:42.960> Spetzler<00:33:43.679> who<00:33:43.919> performed<00:33:44.320> something<00:33:44.640> known<00:33:44.960> as<00:33:45.200> a<00:33:45.440> standstill<00:33:46.159> operation.

00:33:47.360 --> 00:33:55.840
The<00:33:47.711> name<00:33:48.063> is<00:33:48.414> pretty<00:33:48.765> literal.<00:33:49.117> The<00:33:49.468> plan<00:33:49.819> was<00:33:50.170> to<00:33:50.522> cool<00:33:50.873> Pam's<00:33:51.224> body<00:33:51.576> to<00:33:51.927> around<00:33:52.278> 60<00:33:52.630> degrees,<00:33:52.981> stop<00:33:53.332> her<00:33:53.683> heart,<00:33:54.035> stop<00:33:54.386> her<00:33:54.737> breathing,<00:33:55.089> and<00:33:55.440> drain

00:33:55.840 --> 00:34:04.399
the<00:33:56.080> blood<00:33:56.399> from<00:33:56.640> her<00:33:56.799> head.<00:33:57.279> As<00:33:57.519> amazing<00:33:57.760> as<00:33:58.000> that<00:33:58.159> is,<00:33:58.960> that<00:33:59.200> would<00:33:59.360> give<00:33:59.600> Spetzler<00:34:00.240> a<00:34:00.480> brief<00:34:01.039> little<00:34:01.360> tiny<00:34:01.840> window<00:34:02.559> to<00:34:02.880> repair<00:34:03.200> the<00:34:03.440> aneurysm<00:34:04.000> without

00:34:04.399 --> 00:34:08.960
blood<00:34:04.720> rushing<00:34:05.120> through<00:34:05.360> it.<00:34:05.919> Then<00:34:06.159> the<00:34:06.320> team<00:34:06.559> would<00:34:06.720> reverse<00:34:07.120> everything<00:34:07.440> and<00:34:07.760> bring<00:34:07.919> her<00:34:08.159> back.

00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:17.520
I<00:34:09.200> mean,<00:34:09.440> this<00:34:09.599> is<00:34:09.760> about<00:34:10.079> as<00:34:10.480> close<00:34:10.879> as<00:34:11.119> modern<00:34:11.520> medicine<00:34:11.919> can<00:34:12.240> intentionally<00:34:12.879> take<00:34:13.119> someone<00:34:13.520> to<00:34:13.760> death<00:34:14.399> while<00:34:14.720> still<00:34:15.119> planning<00:34:15.440> for<00:34:15.679> them<00:34:15.919> to<00:34:16.159> survive.

00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:24.240
But<00:34:17.760> before<00:34:18.000> the<00:34:18.320> doctors<00:34:18.639> could<00:34:18.879> shut<00:34:19.119> down<00:34:19.280> the<00:34:19.520> rest<00:34:19.599> of<00:34:19.760> Pam's<00:34:20.320> body,<00:34:20.879> they<00:34:21.200> first<00:34:21.520> had<00:34:21.760> to<00:34:21.919> put<00:34:22.320> her<00:34:22.639> deeply<00:34:23.200> under.

00:34:24.240 --> 00:34:26.720
And<00:34:24.399> this<00:34:24.639> is<00:34:24.720> the<00:34:24.960> first<00:34:25.200> moment<00:34:25.520> you<00:34:25.760> need<00:34:25.839> to<00:34:26.079> understand.

00:34:26.720 --> 00:34:31.200
So<00:34:26.960> Pam's<00:34:27.440> eyes<00:34:27.599> were<00:34:27.839> taped<00:34:28.240> shut,<00:34:28.639> her<00:34:28.879> head<00:34:29.119> was<00:34:29.760> locked<00:34:30.079> in<00:34:30.320> place.

00:34:31.200 --> 00:34:37.280
Then<00:34:31.440> her<00:34:31.760> doctors<00:34:32.320> placed<00:34:32.800> molded<00:34:33.280> plugs<00:34:33.679> inside<00:34:34.159> both<00:34:34.399> of<00:34:34.560> her<00:34:34.720> ears<00:34:35.119> and<00:34:35.440> packed<00:34:35.760> them<00:34:36.000> in<00:34:36.240> with<00:34:36.560> gauze.

00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:41.599
In<00:34:37.520> one<00:34:37.679> ear,<00:34:37.919> they<00:34:38.079> blasted<00:34:38.639> rapid<00:34:39.040> clicks<00:34:39.520> 11<00:34:40.000> times<00:34:40.399> every<00:34:40.800> second.

00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:45.440
The<00:34:41.839> sound<00:34:42.079> was<00:34:42.240> roughly<00:34:42.560> as<00:34:42.800> loud<00:34:43.040> as<00:34:43.200> a<00:34:43.440> jackhammer<00:34:44.240> nearby.

00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:48.800
Now,<00:34:45.599> to<00:34:45.839> be<00:34:45.919> clear,<00:34:46.320> Pam's<00:34:46.800> EEG<00:34:47.440> was<00:34:47.679> not<00:34:47.839> flat<00:34:48.159> yet.

00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:52.639
It<00:34:48.960> was<00:34:49.119> heavily<00:34:49.520> suppressed,<00:34:49.919> but<00:34:50.159> the<00:34:50.399> full<00:34:50.720> shutdown<00:34:51.200> had<00:34:51.440> not<00:34:51.679> happened.

00:34:52.639 --> 00:35:01.280
Pam<00:34:53.040> said<00:34:53.200> that<00:34:53.359> while<00:34:53.679> all<00:34:53.919> this<00:34:54.159> was<00:34:54.320> happening,<00:34:54.720> she<00:34:54.960> suddenly<00:34:55.359> found<00:34:55.599> herself<00:34:56.079> above<00:34:56.800> the<00:34:57.119> operating<00:34:57.599> table,<00:34:58.400> looking<00:34:58.720> down<00:34:59.119> at<00:34:59.359> the<00:34:59.520> surgery,<00:35:00.240> just<00:35:00.480> like<00:35:01.040> many

00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:09.680
of<00:35:01.440> the<00:35:01.599> other<00:35:01.680> cases<00:35:02.000> we<00:35:02.320> talked<00:35:02.560> about.<00:35:03.520> From<00:35:03.760> there,<00:35:04.320> she<00:35:04.640> watched<00:35:04.880> the<00:35:05.119> surgeon<00:35:05.599> open<00:35:05.920> her<00:35:06.079> skull<00:35:06.400> with<00:35:06.640> an<00:35:06.800> instrument<00:35:07.280> that<00:35:07.520> looked<00:35:07.920> nothing<00:35:08.320> like<00:35:08.480> a<00:35:08.720> normal<00:35:09.040> saw.

00:35:09.680 --> 00:35:18.160
She<00:35:09.920> said<00:35:10.079> it<00:35:10.240> looked<00:35:10.400> more<00:35:10.560> like<00:35:10.800> an<00:35:10.960> electric<00:35:11.440> toothbrush<00:35:12.560> with<00:35:12.800> a<00:35:12.960> groove<00:35:13.359> along<00:35:13.760> the<00:35:14.000> side<00:35:14.400> and<00:35:14.720> removable<00:35:15.280> pieces<00:35:15.760> stored<00:35:16.079> in<00:35:16.240> a<00:35:16.480> separate<00:35:16.880> case,<00:35:17.599> almost<00:35:17.920> like

00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:24.160
a<00:35:18.480> socket<00:35:18.960> wrench<00:35:19.359> set.<00:35:20.160> Then<00:35:20.400> her<00:35:20.640> attention<00:35:21.119> shifted<00:35:21.599> to<00:35:21.760> the<00:35:22.000> lower<00:35:22.400> half<00:35:22.720> of<00:35:22.960> her<00:35:23.280> body.

00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:31.760
The<00:35:24.400> team<00:35:24.720> was<00:35:24.880> trying<00:35:25.040> to<00:35:25.280> connect<00:35:25.599> her<00:35:25.760> to<00:35:25.920> the<00:35:26.079> machine<00:35:26.560> that<00:35:26.800> would<00:35:27.040> eventually<00:35:27.359> cool<00:35:27.599> her<00:35:27.839> down,<00:35:28.400> but<00:35:28.640> the<00:35:28.960> artery<00:35:29.440> on<00:35:29.599> her<00:35:29.839> right<00:35:30.079> side<00:35:30.400> was<00:35:30.640> too<00:35:30.880> small.

00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.280
Pam<00:35:32.160> remembered<00:35:32.640> someone<00:35:32.960> saying<00:35:33.280> it<00:35:33.520> would<00:35:33.599> not<00:35:33.839> work<00:35:34.240> and<00:35:34.400> the<00:35:34.560> team<00:35:34.880> deciding<00:35:35.280> to<00:35:35.520> use<00:35:35.760> the<00:35:36.079> other<00:35:36.240> side.

00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.720
And<00:35:37.520> later<00:35:37.839> the<00:35:38.000> surgical<00:35:38.480> team<00:35:38.880> confirmed<00:35:39.440> both<00:35:39.760> parts<00:35:40.000> of<00:35:40.160> her<00:35:40.320> account.

00:35:40.720 --> 00:35:49.760
The<00:35:40.880> saw<00:35:41.280> really<00:35:41.520> did<00:35:41.760> have<00:35:42.000> the<00:35:42.160> unusual<00:35:42.720> shape<00:35:43.040> and<00:35:43.280> removal<00:35:43.760> pieces<00:35:44.160> that<00:35:44.480> she<00:35:44.720> described,<00:35:45.599> and<00:35:45.760> it<00:35:46.000> had<00:35:46.240> remained<00:35:46.720> covered<00:35:47.440> until<00:35:47.920> after<00:35:48.240> she<00:35:48.480> was<00:35:48.640> unconscious.

00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:54.880
The<00:35:50.000> problem<00:35:50.240> with<00:35:50.480> the<00:35:50.640> artery<00:35:51.040> was<00:35:51.280> also<00:35:51.599> real,<00:35:52.079> and<00:35:52.320> it<00:35:52.480> was<00:35:52.640> not<00:35:52.880> something<00:35:53.200> anyone<00:35:53.680> had<00:35:53.920> planned<00:35:54.240> for.

00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:59.359
The<00:35:55.119> doctors<00:35:55.520> had<00:35:55.760> only<00:35:56.000> discovered<00:35:56.400> it<00:35:56.640> once<00:35:56.960> the<00:35:57.119> operation<00:35:57.599> was<00:35:57.760> already<00:35:58.160> underway.

00:35:59.359 --> 00:36:04.079
And<00:35:59.680> remember,<00:36:00.160> this<00:36:00.400> was<00:36:00.560> all<00:36:00.800> before<00:36:01.119> the<00:36:01.440> most<00:36:01.680> extreme<00:36:02.320> part<00:36:02.640> of<00:36:02.800> the<00:36:03.040> procedure.

00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.720
The<00:36:04.320> actual<00:36:04.800> standstill<00:36:05.520> came<00:36:05.839> next.

00:36:06.720 --> 00:36:14.720
So,<00:36:07.015> the<00:36:07.311> team<00:36:07.606> cooled<00:36:07.902> Pam's<00:36:08.197> body<00:36:08.492> to<00:36:08.788> around<00:36:09.083> 60<00:36:09.378> degrees,<00:36:09.674> stopped<00:36:09.969> her<00:36:10.265> heart<00:36:10.560> and<00:36:10.855> breathing,<00:36:11.151> and<00:36:11.446> drained<00:36:11.742> the<00:36:12.037> blood<00:36:12.332> from<00:36:12.628> her<00:36:12.923> head<00:36:13.218> so<00:36:13.514> the<00:36:13.809> surgeon<00:36:14.105> could<00:36:14.400> repair

00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:21.200
the<00:36:14.960> aneurysm.<00:36:16.240> At<00:36:16.560> that<00:36:16.720> point,<00:36:16.960> the<00:36:17.200> monitor<00:36:17.599> tracking<00:36:18.000> her<00:36:18.160> brain<00:36:18.480> activity<00:36:18.960> went<00:36:19.359> completely<00:36:20.160> flat.

00:36:21.200 --> 00:36:24.400
But<00:36:21.440> according<00:36:21.839> to<00:36:22.000> Pam,<00:36:22.400> the<00:36:22.640> experience<00:36:23.119> did<00:36:23.359> not<00:36:23.599> stop.

00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:30.880
She<00:36:24.640> said<00:36:24.800> she<00:36:25.040> moved<00:36:25.280> beyond<00:36:25.680> the<00:36:25.839> operating<00:36:26.320> room<00:36:26.560> and<00:36:26.720> entered<00:36:27.119> another<00:36:27.440> realm<00:36:27.839> where<00:36:28.079> she<00:36:28.240> had<00:36:28.400> encountered<00:36:28.960> relatives<00:36:29.359> who<00:36:29.599> had<00:36:29.839> to<00:36:30.000> hide.

00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.119
And<00:36:31.040> then<00:36:31.200> eventually,<00:36:31.599> the<00:36:31.839> doctors<00:36:32.240> began<00:36:32.560> warming<00:36:32.960> her<00:36:33.200> body<00:36:33.440> and<00:36:33.680> bringing<00:36:33.920> her<00:36:34.160> back.

00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:39.520
Once<00:36:35.520> Pam<00:36:35.920> recovered,<00:36:36.640> she<00:36:36.880> began<00:36:37.280> describing<00:36:37.839> what<00:36:38.000> she<00:36:38.240> had<00:36:38.400> seen<00:36:38.720> and<00:36:38.960> heard.

00:36:39.520 --> 00:36:42.400
Now,<00:36:39.839> critics<00:36:40.240> usually<00:36:40.560> point<00:36:40.880> to<00:36:41.200> one<00:36:41.520> fact.

00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:48.320
When<00:36:42.640> Pam<00:36:43.040> described<00:36:43.440> the<00:36:43.680> saw<00:36:44.079> and<00:36:44.240> the<00:36:44.400> artery<00:36:44.880> problem,<00:36:45.599> her<00:36:45.839> EEG<00:36:46.480> had<00:36:46.800> not<00:36:46.960> gone<00:36:47.200> flat<00:36:47.599> yet.

00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:52.320
And<00:36:48.560> yes,<00:36:48.800> that<00:36:49.040> is<00:36:49.280> true.<00:36:50.000> There<00:36:50.240> was<00:36:50.480> still<00:36:50.720> some<00:36:50.960> brain<00:36:51.280> activity.

00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.280
But<00:36:52.480> how<00:36:52.800> does<00:36:52.960> that<00:36:53.200> explain<00:36:53.680> what<00:36:53.920> she<00:36:54.160> knew?

00:36:55.280 --> 00:37:01.280
Her<00:36:55.520> eyes<00:36:55.839> were<00:36:56.000> taped<00:36:56.320> shut.<00:36:57.119> The<00:36:57.359> instrument<00:36:57.920> had<00:36:58.240> been<00:36:58.400> kept<00:36:58.800> covered<00:36:59.200> until<00:36:59.520> after<00:36:59.839> she<00:37:00.079> was<00:37:00.240> unconscious.

00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:09.599
Her<00:37:01.599> ears<00:37:02.079> were<00:37:02.320> filled<00:37:02.720> with<00:37:03.040> rapid<00:37:03.440> clicks<00:37:04.160> as<00:37:04.400> loud<00:37:04.720> as<00:37:04.880> a<00:37:05.119> jackhammer<00:37:05.680> and<00:37:06.000> white<00:37:06.240> noise,<00:37:07.280> and<00:37:07.520> she<00:37:07.680> was<00:37:07.839> under<00:37:08.240> anesthesia.

00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:16.960
Even<00:37:09.839> if<00:37:10.000> we<00:37:10.160> give<00:37:10.320> the<00:37:10.560> skeptical<00:37:11.200> explanation<00:37:12.079> every<00:37:12.480> possible<00:37:13.040> advantage,<00:37:13.839> look<00:37:14.079> at<00:37:14.240> what<00:37:14.480> Pam's<00:37:14.960> brain<00:37:15.200> would<00:37:15.440> have<00:37:15.599> had<00:37:15.760> to<00:37:16.000> do.

00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:25.440
While<00:37:17.200> deeply<00:37:17.760> anesthetized,<00:37:19.119> with<00:37:19.359> jackhammer<00:37:20.079> level<00:37:20.320> clicks<00:37:20.640> in<00:37:20.800> her<00:37:20.960> ears,<00:37:21.359> she<00:37:21.520> would<00:37:21.680> have<00:37:21.839> had<00:37:22.000> to<00:37:22.160> pick<00:37:22.400> out<00:37:22.640> a<00:37:23.040> quiet<00:37:23.599> conversation<00:37:24.720> and<00:37:25.040> understand

00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:29.200
an<00:37:25.760> unexpected<00:37:26.480> problem<00:37:26.800> the<00:37:27.040> doctors<00:37:27.359> had<00:37:27.599> only<00:37:27.839> just<00:37:28.160> discovered.

00:37:29.200 --> 00:37:37.680
Then<00:37:29.440> she<00:37:29.680> would<00:37:29.839> have<00:37:29.920> had<00:37:30.160> to<00:37:30.320> turn<00:37:30.560> the<00:37:30.880> sound<00:37:31.599> of<00:37:31.760> a<00:37:31.920> tool<00:37:32.320> she<00:37:32.560> had<00:37:32.800> never<00:37:33.040> seen<00:37:33.760> into<00:37:34.079> an<00:37:34.400> accurate<00:37:34.960> visual<00:37:35.359> image<00:37:35.680> of<00:37:35.920> its<00:37:36.160> shape,<00:37:36.880> its<00:37:37.200> groove,

00:37:37.680 --> 00:37:41.520
its<00:37:37.920> removal<00:37:38.560> pieces,<00:37:39.440> and<00:37:39.680> a<00:37:39.839> separate<00:37:40.160> case<00:37:40.560> beside<00:37:41.040> it.

00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:49.520
She<00:37:41.760> would<00:37:41.920> have<00:37:42.000> had<00:37:42.240> to<00:37:42.400> experience<00:37:42.960> all<00:37:43.280> of<00:37:43.440> that<00:37:43.680> as<00:37:44.000> a<00:37:44.160> clear<00:37:44.560> scene<00:37:44.880> from<00:37:45.119> above<00:37:45.440> the<00:37:45.680> operating<00:37:46.160> table,<00:37:47.359> carry<00:37:47.680> the<00:37:47.920> memory<00:37:48.320> through<00:37:48.480> the<00:37:48.720> complete<00:37:49.119> shutdown

00:37:49.520 --> 00:37:53.920
that<00:37:49.760> followed,<00:37:50.400> and<00:37:50.640> describe<00:37:51.040> it<00:37:51.359> accurately<00:37:52.320> once<00:37:52.640> she<00:37:52.880> recovered.

00:37:53.920 --> 00:38:02.160
That<00:37:54.160> is<00:37:54.320> a<00:37:54.720> staggering<00:37:55.520> amount<00:37:56.160> for<00:37:56.400> the<00:37:56.640> phrase<00:37:57.359> she<00:37:57.680> probably<00:37:58.160> heard<00:37:58.480> something<00:37:59.040> to<00:37:59.280> explain<00:38:00.400> because<00:38:00.800> sound<00:38:01.280> might<00:38:01.599> tell<00:38:01.760> you<00:38:02.000> that

00:38:02.160 --> 00:38:06.560
a<00:38:02.400> tool<00:38:02.720> is<00:38:02.880> being<00:38:03.200> used.<00:38:03.839> It<00:38:04.079> does<00:38:04.240> not<00:38:04.480> show<00:38:04.640> you<00:38:04.800> what<00:38:04.960> the<00:38:05.119> tool<00:38:05.520> looks<00:38:05.760> like.

00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:12.480
And<00:38:06.800> look,<00:38:07.119> I<00:38:07.359> think<00:38:07.680> most<00:38:07.920> of<00:38:08.079> us<00:38:08.320> imagine<00:38:08.800> the<00:38:09.040> relationship<00:38:09.520> between<00:38:09.839> the<00:38:10.000> brain<00:38:10.320> and<00:38:10.560> consciousness<00:38:11.200> like<00:38:11.440> a<00:38:11.599> light<00:38:11.839> switch.

00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:16.160
Brain<00:38:12.800> off,<00:38:13.440> you're<00:38:13.680> gone.<00:38:14.240> Brain<00:38:14.560> on,<00:38:15.520> you're<00:38:15.760> here.

00:38:16.160 --> 00:38:19.280
But<00:38:16.320> some<00:38:16.560> researchers<00:38:17.119> think<00:38:17.280> that<00:38:17.520> may<00:38:17.760> be<00:38:17.920> far<00:38:18.160> too<00:38:18.480> simple.

00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.560
One<00:38:19.599> possibility<00:38:20.160> is<00:38:20.400> that<00:38:20.560> the<00:38:20.720> brain<00:38:21.040> doesn't<00:38:21.359> create<00:38:21.839> consciousness.

00:38:22.560 --> 00:38:30.560
It<00:38:22.800> filters<00:38:23.200> it.<00:38:23.839> It<00:38:24.079> keeps<00:38:24.240> your<00:38:24.400> awareness<00:38:24.880> focused<00:38:25.440> through<00:38:25.920> this<00:38:26.240> body<00:38:27.119> in<00:38:27.359> this<00:38:27.520> place<00:38:27.920> from<00:38:28.160> this<00:38:28.720> particular<00:38:29.280> point<00:38:29.520> of<00:38:29.760> view.

00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:34.240
Think<00:38:30.800> of<00:38:31.119> a<00:38:31.440> radio.<00:38:32.240> The<00:38:32.480> radio<00:38:32.800> is<00:38:32.960> where<00:38:33.119> you<00:38:33.280> hear<00:38:33.440> the<00:38:33.680> music.

00:38:34.240 --> 00:38:37.200
But<00:38:34.400> it<00:38:34.640> is<00:38:34.800> not<00:38:34.960> necessarily<00:38:35.599> where<00:38:35.839> the<00:38:36.079> signal<00:38:36.480> begins.

00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:44.480
And<00:38:37.359> if<00:38:37.520> that<00:38:37.760> is<00:38:37.920> even<00:38:38.160> partly<00:38:38.640> true,<00:38:39.200> then<00:38:39.440> Pam<00:38:39.920> still<00:38:40.160> having<00:38:40.400> brain<00:38:40.720> waves<00:38:41.040> is<00:38:41.359> not<00:38:41.599> the<00:38:41.920> simple<00:38:42.240> answer<00:38:42.560> critics<00:38:43.040> make<00:38:43.200> it<00:38:43.440> sound<00:38:43.680> like.

00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:48.400
Her<00:38:44.720> body<00:38:44.960> was<00:38:45.119> still<00:38:45.359> alive.<00:38:45.760> Her<00:38:46.000> brain<00:38:46.240> was<00:38:46.480> clearly<00:38:46.880> still<00:38:47.200> doing<00:38:47.520> something.

00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:54.720
But<00:38:48.560> her<00:38:48.720> awareness<00:38:49.280> may<00:38:49.680> no<00:38:50.000> longer<00:38:50.640> have<00:38:50.880> been<00:38:51.200> completely<00:38:52.079> confined<00:38:52.640> to<00:38:52.880> where<00:38:53.119> her<00:38:53.359> body<00:38:53.599> was<00:38:53.839> lying.

00:38:54.720 --> 00:38:58.000
Not<00:38:54.960> fully<00:38:55.359> gone,<00:38:56.000> but<00:38:56.240> not<00:38:56.480> fully<00:38:56.960> separated.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:03.520
More<00:38:58.320> like<00:38:58.480> the<00:38:58.720> connection<00:38:59.040> between<00:38:59.359> the<00:38:59.599> brain,<00:39:00.000> the<00:39:00.240> body,<00:39:00.480> and<00:39:00.720> her<00:39:00.960> consciousness<00:39:01.599> started<00:39:02.000> to<00:39:02.240> loosen.

00:39:03.520 --> 00:39:08.960
And<00:39:03.760> maybe<00:39:04.000> a<00:39:04.240> case<00:39:04.480> like<00:39:04.720> Pam's<00:39:05.280> is<00:39:05.440> showing<00:39:05.680> us<00:39:05.920> that<00:39:06.240> crossover<00:39:06.800> is<00:39:07.119> happening<00:39:07.520> in<00:39:07.760> real<00:39:08.079> time.

00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:13.920
We<00:39:09.200> honestly<00:39:09.599> don't<00:39:09.839> know.<00:39:11.040> But<00:39:11.680> Pam's<00:39:12.160> operation<00:39:12.720> was<00:39:13.040> planned.

00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.680
The<00:39:14.160> next<00:39:14.640> patient's<00:39:15.200> shutdown<00:39:15.680> was<00:39:16.000> not<00:39:16.240> planned<00:39:16.640> at<00:39:16.960> all.

00:39:17.680 --> 00:39:21.839
Pam's<00:39:18.160> operation<00:39:18.560> was<00:39:18.800> designed<00:39:19.040> to<00:39:19.280> take<00:39:19.440> her<00:39:19.599> body<00:39:20.000> offline<00:39:20.480> and<00:39:20.640> then<00:39:20.880> bring<00:39:21.040> her<00:39:21.200> back.

00:39:21.839 --> 00:39:26.800
In<00:39:22.079> this<00:39:22.240> next<00:39:22.560> case,<00:39:23.200> the<00:39:23.440> doctors<00:39:23.839> had<00:39:24.079> no<00:39:24.240> reason<00:39:24.480> to<00:39:24.640> think<00:39:24.880> the<00:39:25.119> patient<00:39:25.440> would<00:39:25.760> ever<00:39:26.160> come<00:39:26.400> back.

00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:33.680
So,<00:39:27.040> Stanford<00:39:27.520> heart<00:39:27.760> surgeon<00:39:28.160> Lloyd<00:39:28.480> Rudy<00:39:28.800> was<00:39:29.040> operating<00:39:29.359> on<00:39:29.520> a<00:39:29.760> man<00:39:29.920> whose<00:39:30.240> heart<00:39:30.480> valve<00:39:30.800> had<00:39:31.040> been<00:39:31.200> destroyed<00:39:31.599> by<00:39:31.760> a<00:39:31.920> severe<00:39:32.320> infection.

00:39:33.680 --> 00:39:40.079
The<00:39:33.987> team<00:39:34.293> repaired<00:39:34.600> the<00:39:34.907> damage<00:39:35.213> and<00:39:35.520> replaced<00:39:35.827> the<00:39:36.133> valve,<00:39:36.440> but<00:39:36.747> they<00:39:37.053> could<00:39:37.360> not<00:39:37.667> take<00:39:37.973> him<00:39:38.280> off<00:39:38.587> the<00:39:38.893> heart-lung<00:39:39.200> machine.

00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:42.960
The<00:39:40.320> machine<00:39:40.640> was<00:39:40.880> doing<00:39:41.040> the<00:39:41.200> work<00:39:41.359> of<00:39:41.599> keeping<00:39:41.839> his<00:39:42.079> blood<00:39:42.320> moving.

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:49.280
And<00:39:43.200> every<00:39:43.520> time<00:39:43.680> the<00:39:43.920> doctors<00:39:44.320> tried<00:39:44.560> to<00:39:44.880> hand<00:39:45.200> that<00:39:45.440> job<00:39:45.760> back<00:39:46.000> to<00:39:46.240> his<00:39:46.480> own<00:39:46.640> body,<00:39:47.440> his<00:39:47.760> blood<00:39:48.079> pressure<00:39:48.480> collapsed.

00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.400
Eventually,<00:39:49.760> they<00:39:50.000> ran<00:39:50.160> out<00:39:50.320> of<00:39:50.480> options<00:39:50.800> and<00:39:51.119> pronounced<00:39:51.599> him<00:39:51.839> dead.

00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.520
At<00:39:52.640> that<00:39:52.800> point,<00:39:52.960> the<00:39:53.200> operation<00:39:53.599> was<00:39:53.760> over.<00:39:54.079> The<00:39:54.320> ventilator<00:39:54.800> was<00:39:54.960> turned<00:39:55.200> off.

00:39:55.520 --> 00:40:00.320
The<00:39:55.680> medication<00:39:56.240> stopped.<00:39:56.880> The<00:39:57.040> anesthesiologist<00:39:58.160> left<00:39:58.480> to<00:39:58.720> get<00:39:58.960> something<00:39:59.200> to<00:39:59.440> eat.

00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:09.280
Staff<00:40:00.720> began<00:40:01.040> clearing<00:40:01.359> away<00:40:01.599> the<00:40:01.760> instruments,<00:40:02.480> and<00:40:02.800> one<00:40:02.960> of<00:40:03.040> the<00:40:03.200> assistants<00:40:03.760> started<00:40:04.320> closing<00:40:04.720> his<00:40:05.040> chest<00:40:05.680> so<00:40:05.920> the<00:40:06.160> body<00:40:06.480> could<00:40:06.720> be<00:40:06.960> prepared<00:40:07.440> for<00:40:07.680> an<00:40:07.920> autopsy.

00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:17.599
The<00:40:09.520> monitors<00:40:10.000> were<00:40:10.240> left<00:40:10.480> running<00:40:10.800> though<00:40:11.119> and<00:40:11.359> for<00:40:11.520> the<00:40:11.760> next<00:40:11.920> 20<00:40:12.240> to<00:40:12.480> 25<00:40:12.880> minutes<00:40:13.200> they<00:40:13.440> showed<00:40:13.680> no<00:40:13.920> heartbeat,<00:40:14.640> no<00:40:15.040> blood<00:40:15.280> pressure,<00:40:16.079> no<00:40:16.320> breathing<00:40:17.040> and<00:40:17.280> no

00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:25.119
movement<00:40:17.999> from<00:40:18.399> the<00:40:18.799> heart<00:40:19.199> itself.<00:40:19.599> Rudy<00:40:19.999> and<00:40:20.399> the<00:40:20.800> second<00:40:21.200> surgeon,<00:40:21.600> Roberto<00:40:22.000> Amato-Cattaneo<00:40:22.400> had<00:40:22.800> already<00:40:23.200> removed<00:40:23.600> their<00:40:24.000> gowns.

00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:32.400
They<00:40:25.440> stood<00:40:25.680> in<00:40:25.920> the<00:40:26.079> doorway<00:40:26.640> with<00:40:26.880> their<00:40:27.200> arms<00:40:27.599> folded,<00:40:28.720> talking<00:40:29.119> through<00:40:29.440> whether<00:40:29.760> there<00:40:30.000> was<00:40:30.160> anything<00:40:30.480> else<00:40:30.720> that<00:40:30.960> could<00:40:31.119> be<00:40:31.280> done.

00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:39.520
Then<00:40:32.720> the<00:40:32.960> monitor<00:40:33.520> changed.<00:40:34.240> First<00:40:34.560> a<00:40:34.800> small<00:40:35.119> electrical<00:40:35.599> signal<00:40:36.000> appeared,<00:40:36.640> then<00:40:36.880> a<00:40:37.119> slow<00:40:37.359> heartbeat,<00:40:38.160> then<00:40:38.480> blood<00:40:38.800> pressure.

00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:42.160
So<00:40:39.680> the<00:40:39.920> anesthesiologist<00:40:40.880> came<00:40:41.119> running<00:40:41.440> back.

00:40:42.160 --> 00:40:47.040
The<00:40:42.320> team<00:40:42.720> turned<00:40:43.119> everything<00:40:43.520> on<00:40:43.760> again<00:40:44.079> and<00:40:44.400> somehow<00:40:44.960> the<00:40:45.280> patient<00:40:45.680> recovered.

00:40:47.040 --> 00:40:55.119
But<00:40:47.200> that's<00:40:47.440> not<00:40:47.680> even<00:40:47.839> the<00:40:48.160> strangest<00:40:48.720> part<00:40:48.960> of<00:40:49.200> the<00:40:49.440> story<00:40:50.240> because<00:40:50.640> later<00:40:51.040> the<00:40:51.280> patient<00:40:51.599> said<00:40:51.839> he<00:40:52.079> had<00:40:52.320> watched<00:40:52.560> what<00:40:52.880> happened<00:40:53.200> after<00:40:53.440> they<00:40:53.680> pronounced<00:40:54.079> him<00:40:54.320> dead.

00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:59.760
He<00:40:55.359> described<00:40:55.839> Rudy<00:40:56.319> and<00:40:56.400> Amato<00:40:57.040> standing<00:40:57.440> in<00:40:57.599> the<00:40:57.760> doorway<00:40:58.160> with<00:40:58.400> their<00:40:58.560> arms<00:40:58.960> folded.

00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:04.480
He<00:41:00.000> knew<00:41:00.160> the<00:41:00.480> anesthesiologist<00:41:01.520> had<00:41:01.760> left<00:41:01.920> the<00:41:02.160> room<00:41:02.240> and<00:41:02.480> then<00:41:02.640> later<00:41:03.040> came<00:41:03.440> running<00:41:03.839> back.

00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:10.480
And<00:41:04.640> he<00:41:04.800> had<00:41:04.960> described<00:41:05.520> a<00:41:05.760> chain<00:41:06.160> of<00:41:06.560> Post-it<00:41:07.119> notes<00:41:08.079> stuck<00:41:08.480> to<00:41:08.640> one<00:41:08.880> of<00:41:08.960> the<00:41:09.119> monitors.

00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:15.520
That<00:41:10.800> detail<00:41:11.200> is<00:41:11.440> so<00:41:11.760> strange<00:41:12.079> because<00:41:12.480> none<00:41:12.720> of<00:41:12.880> those<00:41:13.040> notes<00:41:13.440> had<00:41:13.680> been<00:41:13.839> there<00:41:14.000> before<00:41:14.240> the<00:41:14.480> operation.

00:41:15.520 --> 00:41:21.200
They<00:41:15.680> were<00:41:16.000> telephone<00:41:16.560> messages<00:41:17.359> that<00:41:17.760> accumulated<00:41:18.480> while<00:41:18.720> the<00:41:18.960> surgery<00:41:19.359> was<00:41:19.680> taking<00:41:20.000> place.

00:41:21.200 --> 00:41:25.119
So<00:41:21.359> if<00:41:21.599> this<00:41:21.760> man<00:41:22.000> were<00:41:22.240> simply<00:41:22.560> imagining<00:41:23.119> a<00:41:23.359> generic<00:41:23.760> operating<00:41:24.240> room,<00:41:24.640> fine.

00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:28.800
You<00:41:25.359> might<00:41:25.599> imagine<00:41:26.079> surgeons,<00:41:26.640> machines,<00:41:27.200> people<00:41:27.440> standing<00:41:27.839> around.

00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:35.440
But<00:41:28.960> you<00:41:29.119> did<00:41:29.359> not<00:41:29.520> randomly<00:41:30.079> invent<00:41:30.560> a<00:41:30.800> homemade<00:41:31.359> chain<00:41:31.680> of<00:41:31.920> Post-it<00:41:32.319> notes<00:41:32.800> that<00:41:33.119> formed<00:41:33.599> while<00:41:33.760> you<00:41:33.920> were<00:41:34.079> unconscious.

00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:40.240
And<00:41:35.599> two<00:41:35.920> surgeons<00:41:36.400> involved<00:41:36.880> in<00:41:37.040> the<00:41:37.200> operation<00:41:37.760> later<00:41:38.240> confirmed<00:41:38.640> the<00:41:38.880> central<00:41:39.359> account.

00:41:40.240 --> 00:41:46.079
Now<00:41:40.480> there<00:41:40.640> is<00:41:40.800> a<00:41:40.960> rare<00:41:41.359> medical<00:41:41.760> phenomenon<00:41:42.400> where<00:41:42.640> a<00:41:42.880> heart<00:41:43.119> restarts<00:41:43.760> after<00:41:44.160> doctors<00:41:44.640> stop<00:41:44.960> resuscitation.

00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:51.040
It's<00:41:46.319> called<00:41:46.480> the<00:41:46.720> Lazarus<00:41:47.359> phenomenon<00:41:48.480> and<00:41:48.640> maybe<00:41:48.880> that<00:41:49.119> explains<00:41:49.520> why<00:41:49.760> this<00:41:50.000> man<00:41:50.240> came<00:41:50.480> back.

00:41:51.040 --> 00:41:58.000
But<00:41:51.200> that<00:41:51.359> is<00:41:51.520> a<00:41:51.680> completely<00:41:52.480> separate<00:41:53.040> question<00:41:53.760> from<00:41:54.079> how<00:41:54.319> he<00:41:54.560> knew<00:41:54.720> what<00:41:55.040> happened<00:41:55.280> while<00:41:55.520> the<00:41:55.680> medical<00:41:56.000> team<00:41:56.319> believed<00:41:56.720> he<00:41:57.040> was<00:41:57.119> dead.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.400
The<00:41:58.240> heart<00:41:58.480> restarting<00:41:58.960> does<00:41:59.119> not<00:41:59.280> explain<00:41:59.520> the<00:41:59.680> Post-it<00:42:00.079> notes.

00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.200
It<00:42:00.640> does<00:42:00.800> not<00:42:00.960> explain<00:42:01.280> the<00:42:01.520> surgeons<00:42:01.920> in<00:42:02.160> the<00:42:02.240> doorway.

00:42:03.200 --> 00:42:07.040
Does<00:42:03.359> not<00:42:03.520> explain<00:42:03.760> the<00:42:03.920> anesthesiologist<00:42:05.040> leaving<00:42:05.440> and<00:42:05.680> then<00:42:05.920> running<00:42:06.240> back.

00:42:07.040 --> 00:42:12.880
So<00:42:07.280> with<00:42:07.520> Pam,<00:42:07.920> her<00:42:08.160> eyes<00:42:08.400> were<00:42:08.640> taped<00:42:09.119> shut<00:42:09.599> and<00:42:09.839> her<00:42:10.079> body<00:42:10.319> was<00:42:10.560> being<00:42:10.960> deliberately<00:42:11.599> taken<00:42:11.920> offline.

00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:16.160
But<00:42:13.040> with<00:42:13.359> this<00:42:13.599> man,<00:42:13.920> he<00:42:14.160> had<00:42:14.319> already<00:42:14.560> been<00:42:14.800> pronounced<00:42:15.280> dead.

00:42:16.160 --> 00:42:18.880
Well,<00:42:16.800> as<00:42:17.119> dead<00:42:17.359> as<00:42:17.599> dead<00:42:17.920> can<00:42:18.160> be.

00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:22.160
And<00:42:19.119> according<00:42:19.520> to<00:42:19.760> him,<00:42:20.400> he<00:42:20.640> was<00:42:20.880> still<00:42:21.359> watching.

00:42:22.160 --> 00:42:24.480
So<00:42:22.400> what<00:42:22.560> do<00:42:22.640> we<00:42:22.880> make<00:42:23.119> of<00:42:23.359> all<00:42:23.599> of<00:42:23.839> this?

00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:31.680
We've<00:42:24.720> now<00:42:24.960> seen<00:42:25.200> people<00:42:25.440> describe<00:42:25.920> what<00:42:26.160> was<00:42:26.319> happening<00:42:26.640> from<00:42:26.880> somewhere<00:42:27.200> near<00:42:27.440> the<00:42:27.680> ceiling,<00:42:28.240> report<00:42:28.640> events<00:42:29.040> beyond<00:42:29.440> the<00:42:29.680> reach<00:42:29.920> of<00:42:30.160> every<00:42:30.480> normal<00:42:30.880> sense,<00:42:31.440> and

00:42:31.680 --> 00:42:39.920
come<00:42:31.920> back<00:42:32.079> with<00:42:32.400> accurate<00:42:32.800> details<00:42:33.280> even<00:42:33.520> when<00:42:33.680> their<00:42:33.920> eyes<00:42:34.160> were<00:42:34.400> taped<00:42:34.800> shut,<00:42:35.280> their<00:42:35.520> ears<00:42:35.760> were<00:42:36.000> blocked,<00:42:36.400> or<00:42:36.640> their<00:42:36.880> bodies<00:42:37.200> have<00:42:37.359> been<00:42:37.599> taken<00:42:38.079> completely<00:42:38.800> offline.

00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:45.040
And<00:42:40.079> remember,<00:42:40.400> this<00:42:40.640> is<00:42:40.800> only<00:42:41.040> a<00:42:41.359> small<00:42:41.760> sliver<00:42:42.480> of<00:42:42.720> what<00:42:42.880> is<00:42:43.119> inside<00:42:43.680> this<00:42:44.000> book.

00:42:45.040 --> 00:42:51.920
Millions<00:42:45.440> of<00:42:45.599> people<00:42:46.000> report<00:42:46.400> leaving<00:42:46.720> their<00:42:46.880> bodies<00:42:47.200> during<00:42:47.440> a<00:42:47.599> near-death<00:42:48.079> experience,<00:42:48.880> but<00:42:49.119> most<00:42:49.359> of<00:42:49.440> those<00:42:49.680> cases<00:42:50.079> are<00:42:50.319> never<00:42:50.720> investigated.

00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:54.319
Nobody<00:42:52.319> interviews<00:42:52.720> the<00:42:52.960> doctors<00:42:53.359> or<00:42:53.599> the<00:42:53.760> nurses.

00:42:54.319 --> 00:42:59.760
They<00:42:54.560> don't<00:42:54.720> check<00:42:54.960> the<00:42:55.200> records<00:42:55.920> or<00:42:56.160> ask<00:42:56.400> whether<00:42:56.800> the<00:42:57.040> strange<00:42:57.440> detail<00:42:57.839> they<00:42:58.079> brought<00:42:58.319> back<00:42:58.640> actually<00:42:59.040> happened.

00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:03.839
The<00:43:00.000> cases<00:43:00.400> we've<00:43:00.800> covered<00:43:01.040> are<00:43:01.359> simply<00:43:01.599> the<00:43:01.760> rare<00:43:02.000> ones<00:43:02.319> where<00:43:02.560> someone<00:43:02.960> did.

00:43:03.839 --> 00:43:09.119
For<00:43:04.079> me,<00:43:04.240> the<00:43:04.480> first<00:43:04.640> thing<00:43:04.800> that<00:43:05.040> changes<00:43:05.760> is<00:43:06.160> how<00:43:06.400> we<00:43:06.720> think<00:43:06.880> about<00:43:07.280> consciousness<00:43:07.839> in<00:43:08.079> the<00:43:08.240> brain.

00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:13.920
So,<00:43:09.440> of<00:43:09.599> course,<00:43:09.760> they<00:43:10.000> interact.<00:43:10.640> Neuroscience<00:43:11.359> has<00:43:11.680> established<00:43:12.079> that<00:43:12.319> beyond<00:43:12.800> any<00:43:13.119> real<00:43:13.359> doubt.

00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.480
Change<00:43:14.160> your<00:43:14.400> brain<00:43:14.560> and<00:43:14.800> your<00:43:15.040> experience<00:43:15.520> changes.

00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:21.440
Damage<00:43:16.880> the<00:43:17.119> brain<00:43:17.520> and<00:43:17.760> memory,<00:43:18.240> perception,<00:43:18.720> and<00:43:18.960> even<00:43:19.200> personality<00:43:20.000> change<00:43:20.319> with<00:43:20.480> it.

00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:25.599
But<00:43:21.760> interaction<00:43:22.400> is<00:43:22.720> not<00:43:22.960> the<00:43:23.280> same<00:43:23.520> thing<00:43:23.920> as<00:43:24.640> identity.

00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:31.520
The<00:43:25.839> fact<00:43:25.920> that<00:43:26.079> the<00:43:26.319> brain<00:43:26.560> affects<00:43:27.119> consciousness<00:43:27.920> does<00:43:28.160> not<00:43:28.400> automatically<00:43:29.119> mean<00:43:29.280> that<00:43:29.520> the<00:43:29.680> brain<00:43:30.000> creates<00:43:30.560> consciousness.

00:43:31.520 --> 00:43:37.599
And<00:43:31.680> these<00:43:32.000> cases<00:43:32.400> make<00:43:32.640> it<00:43:32.880> much<00:43:33.200> harder<00:43:33.520> to<00:43:33.760> believe<00:43:34.319> that<00:43:34.640> the<00:43:34.880> two<00:43:35.200> are<00:43:35.440> simply<00:43:35.839> the<00:43:36.160> same<00:43:36.480> thing.

00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:41.599
As<00:43:37.839> we<00:43:38.000> mentioned<00:43:38.319> earlier,<00:43:38.720> it's<00:43:38.880> likely<00:43:39.119> that<00:43:39.280> the<00:43:39.440> brain<00:43:39.760> works<00:43:40.079> more<00:43:40.319> like<00:43:40.480> a<00:43:40.720> filter.

00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:49.599
Maybe<00:43:41.839> it<00:43:42.079> takes<00:43:42.400> something<00:43:42.800> larger<00:43:43.920> and<00:43:44.240> narrows<00:43:44.880> it<00:43:45.119> into<00:43:45.440> this<00:43:45.760> body<00:43:46.400> and<00:43:46.640> this<00:43:46.880> place<00:43:47.200> and<00:43:47.440> this<00:43:47.680> particular<00:43:48.240> point<00:43:48.480> of<00:43:48.720> view.

00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:52.480
Honestly,<00:43:50.079> I<00:43:50.319> don't<00:43:50.400> know.<00:43:50.800> None<00:43:51.040> of<00:43:51.200> us<00:43:51.359> really<00:43:51.680> know.

00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:57.040
There<00:43:52.640> is<00:43:52.800> still<00:43:52.960> so<00:43:53.200> much<00:43:53.359> about<00:43:53.599> the<00:43:53.839> relationship<00:43:54.319> between<00:43:54.560> the<00:43:54.720> mind<00:43:54.960> and<00:43:55.119> the<00:43:55.280> brain<00:43:55.440> that<00:43:55.760> we<00:43:56.000> have<00:43:56.160> not<00:43:56.319> discovered.

00:43:57.040 --> 00:44:01.520
But<00:43:57.200> then<00:43:57.359> there<00:43:57.520> is<00:43:57.680> the<00:43:57.839> second<00:43:58.079> thing<00:43:58.319> which<00:43:58.480> we<00:43:58.720> saw<00:43:58.880> briefly<00:43:59.200> with<00:43:59.359> Al<00:43:59.599> Sullivan<00:44:00.079> and<00:44:00.319> Pam<00:44:00.560> Reynolds.

00:44:01.520 --> 00:44:04.880
Vertical<00:44:01.920> perception<00:44:02.319> is<00:44:02.560> often<00:44:02.880> not<00:44:03.119> the<00:44:03.440> whole<00:44:03.760> near-death<00:44:04.400> experience.

00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:12.160
It<00:44:05.119> is<00:44:05.200> just<00:44:05.440> the<00:44:05.680> first<00:44:06.000> part.<00:44:06.880> A<00:44:07.119> person<00:44:07.359> may<00:44:07.599> be<00:44:07.760> describing<00:44:08.480> the<00:44:08.720> operating<00:44:09.200> room<00:44:09.440> around<00:44:09.760> them,<00:44:10.079> but<00:44:10.319> then<00:44:10.480> the<00:44:10.800> experience<00:44:11.520> changes.

00:44:12.160 --> 00:44:20.560
The<00:44:12.400> room<00:44:12.720> falls<00:44:13.040> away.<00:44:13.440> They<00:44:13.680> enter<00:44:14.000> another<00:44:14.400> realm,<00:44:15.119> encounter<00:44:15.599> relatives<00:44:16.079> who<00:44:16.319> have<00:44:16.560> died,<00:44:17.119> or<00:44:17.359> meet<00:44:17.599> what<00:44:17.760> would<00:44:17.920> they<00:44:18.079> describe<00:44:18.560> as<00:44:18.800> a<00:44:19.040> being<00:44:19.359> of<00:44:19.680> light.

00:44:20.560 --> 00:44:24.319
And<00:44:20.800> many<00:44:21.040> of<00:44:21.119> them<00:44:21.359> say<00:44:21.599> that<00:44:21.839> that<00:44:22.240> world<00:44:22.640> felt<00:44:22.960> more<00:44:23.200> real<00:44:23.440> than<00:44:23.680> this<00:44:23.920> one.

00:44:24.319 --> 00:44:29.040
And<00:44:24.480> if<00:44:24.640> you<00:44:24.720> want<00:44:24.800> to<00:44:24.960> explore<00:44:25.280> the<00:44:25.520> rest<00:44:25.599> of<00:44:25.760> that<00:44:26.000> phenomenon,<00:44:26.640> we've<00:44:26.880> linked<00:44:27.200> those<00:44:27.599> episodes<00:44:28.000> below.

00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:35.599
But<00:44:29.200> it's<00:44:29.440> worth<00:44:29.680> ending<00:44:30.000> by<00:44:30.319> looking<00:44:30.480> at<00:44:30.720> how<00:44:31.040> people<00:44:31.440> usually<00:44:31.839> try<00:44:32.079> to<00:44:32.560> poke<00:44:32.880> holes<00:44:33.200> in<00:44:33.440> vertical<00:44:34.000> perception<00:44:34.640> accounts.

00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:40.640
So<00:44:35.760> they<00:44:36.000> take<00:44:36.160> them<00:44:36.400> one<00:44:36.640> by<00:44:36.880> one,<00:44:37.200> and<00:44:37.440> the<00:44:37.599> first<00:44:37.760> place<00:44:37.920> they<00:44:38.160> usually<00:44:38.400> go<00:44:38.640> is<00:44:38.800> the<00:44:39.040> third<00:44:39.359> party<00:44:39.680> witness.

00:44:40.640 --> 00:44:47.119
Maybe<00:44:40.880> the<00:44:41.040> doctor<00:44:41.440> remembered<00:44:41.760> it<00:44:41.920> wrong.<00:44:42.240> Maybe<00:44:42.480> the<00:44:42.800> nurse<00:44:43.040> heard<00:44:43.280> the<00:44:43.440> patient's<00:44:43.839> story<00:44:44.079> and<00:44:44.400> slowly<00:44:44.960> changed<00:44:45.440> her<00:44:45.680> own<00:44:45.920> memory.

00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:52.160
Maybe<00:44:47.359> the<00:44:47.599> family<00:44:48.000> wanted<00:44:48.319> to<00:44:48.560> believe<00:44:48.800> it,<00:44:49.119> so<00:44:49.359> everyone's<00:44:49.920> accounts<00:44:50.400> started<00:44:50.640> blending<00:44:51.119> together.

00:44:52.160 --> 00:44:56.240
And<00:44:52.319> honestly,<00:44:52.800> this<00:44:52.960> is<00:44:53.119> not<00:44:53.359> an<00:44:53.680> unusual<00:44:54.319> way<00:44:54.480> to<00:44:54.800> examine<00:44:55.200> evidence.

00:44:56.240 --> 00:45:00.240
It<00:44:56.480> is<00:44:56.640> exactly<00:44:56.960> what<00:44:57.119> a<00:44:57.440> skilled<00:44:57.920> lawyer<00:44:58.400> does<00:44:58.720> in<00:44:58.960> a<00:44:59.119> courtroom.

00:45:00.240 --> 00:45:06.400
So,<00:45:00.480> I<00:45:00.640> just<00:45:00.880> finished<00:45:01.200> a<00:45:01.440> Netflix<00:45:02.000> documentary<00:45:02.640> about<00:45:02.880> the<00:45:03.119> child<00:45:03.440> molestation<00:45:04.160> case<00:45:04.560> against<00:45:04.960> Michael<00:45:05.280> Jackson.

00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:11.520
And<00:45:06.640> before<00:45:06.960> anyone<00:45:07.280> loses<00:45:07.680> their<00:45:07.920> mind,<00:45:08.160> I'm<00:45:08.400> not<00:45:08.480> giving<00:45:08.720> a<00:45:08.880> verdict<00:45:09.119> on<00:45:09.359> Michael<00:45:09.680> Jackson<00:45:10.079> one<00:45:10.319> way<00:45:10.480> or<00:45:10.720> another.

00:45:11.520 --> 00:45:16.160
I'm<00:45:11.760> also<00:45:12.079> not<00:45:12.240> comparing<00:45:12.640> the<00:45:12.880> substance<00:45:13.359> of<00:45:13.599> those<00:45:13.839> allegations<00:45:14.400> to<00:45:14.640> near-death<00:45:15.119> experiences.

00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:22.079
This<00:45:16.319> is<00:45:16.480> a<00:45:16.720> complete<00:45:17.040> aside,<00:45:17.920> but<00:45:18.240> something<00:45:18.560> about<00:45:18.800> the<00:45:19.040> way<00:45:19.200> the<00:45:19.599> evidence<00:45:20.079> unfolded<00:45:20.720> really<00:45:21.040> struck<00:45:21.359> me.

00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:28.160
A<00:45:22.319> person<00:45:22.560> would<00:45:22.800> take<00:45:22.960> the<00:45:23.200> stand<00:45:23.440> and<00:45:23.680> tell<00:45:23.839> a<00:45:24.000> story<00:45:24.240> that<00:45:24.480> at<00:45:24.800> first<00:45:25.599> sounded<00:45:26.240> incredibly<00:45:27.119> compelling.

00:45:28.160 --> 00:45:30.720
Then<00:45:28.400> the<00:45:28.640> lawyers<00:45:29.040> would<00:45:29.359> start<00:45:29.680> pulling<00:45:30.079> at<00:45:30.319> it.

00:45:30.720 --> 00:45:35.040
They<00:45:30.960> would<00:45:31.119> question<00:45:31.520> the<00:45:31.760> timing<00:45:32.400> and<00:45:32.640> then<00:45:32.880> the<00:45:33.040> memory<00:45:33.680> and<00:45:33.920> then<00:45:34.160> the<00:45:34.319> motive.

00:45:35.040 --> 00:45:39.680
They<00:45:35.280> would<00:45:35.440> question<00:45:35.680> whether<00:45:36.000> the<00:45:36.319> story<00:45:36.560> had<00:45:36.880> changed,<00:45:37.599> whether<00:45:38.000> money<00:45:38.319> was<00:45:38.560> involved.

00:45:39.680 --> 00:45:48.640
And<00:45:40.000> sometimes<00:45:40.880> by<00:45:41.200> the<00:45:41.359> end<00:45:41.520> of<00:45:41.680> that<00:45:41.920> individual<00:45:42.720> cross-examination,<00:45:44.240> something<00:45:44.560> that<00:45:44.960> initially<00:45:45.440> sounded<00:45:45.920> overwhelming<00:45:47.119> felt<00:45:47.599> much<00:45:48.160> less

00:45:48.640 --> 00:45:56.720
certain.<00:45:49.520> And<00:45:49.680> I<00:45:49.839> think<00:45:49.920> that<00:45:50.160> is<00:45:50.319> relevant<00:45:50.720> here<00:45:51.119> because<00:45:51.839> yes,<00:45:52.240> maybe<00:45:52.400> you<00:45:52.640> could<00:45:52.720> find<00:45:52.960> a<00:45:53.119> weakness<00:45:53.520> in<00:45:53.680> one<00:45:53.920> near-death<00:45:54.560> case,<00:45:55.280> then<00:45:55.599> maybe<00:45:55.839> you<00:45:56.000> could<00:45:56.079> find<00:45:56.319> one

00:45:56.720 --> 00:45:59.920
in<00:45:56.960> another.<00:45:58.000> And<00:45:58.160> I<00:45:58.319> actually<00:45:58.560> think<00:45:58.960> you<00:45:59.200> should.

00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:03.839
I<00:46:00.160> do<00:46:00.319> not<00:46:00.480> believe<00:46:00.720> all<00:46:00.960> near-death<00:46:01.520> experiences<00:46:02.079> are<00:46:02.400> equally<00:46:02.880> strong.

00:46:03.839 --> 00:46:07.760
Some<00:46:04.000> of<00:46:04.160> them<00:46:04.480> probably<00:46:04.880> do<00:46:05.280> have<00:46:05.599> completely<00:46:06.160> ordinary<00:46:06.800> explanations.

00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:12.319
Some<00:46:08.000> were<00:46:08.240> documented<00:46:08.800> years<00:46:09.040> later.<00:46:09.680> Some<00:46:09.920> rely<00:46:10.240> too<00:46:10.480> heavily<00:46:10.800> on<00:46:10.960> one<00:46:11.200> person's<00:46:11.599> memory.

00:46:12.319 --> 00:46:14.640
Some<00:46:12.560> should<00:46:12.800> not<00:46:12.960> carry<00:46:13.200> much<00:46:13.440> weight<00:46:13.680> at<00:46:14.000> all.

00:46:14.640 --> 00:46:20.480
I<00:46:14.960> have<00:46:15.040> a<00:46:15.440> very<00:46:15.760> high<00:46:16.079> regard<00:46:16.400> for<00:46:16.640> evidence,<00:46:17.280> especially<00:46:17.680> when<00:46:17.839> the<00:46:18.000> claim<00:46:18.240> is<00:46:18.560> this<00:46:19.040> extraordinary.

00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:25.920
But<00:46:20.720> at<00:46:21.040> some<00:46:21.280> point,<00:46:21.599> you<00:46:21.839> also<00:46:22.079> have<00:46:22.319> to<00:46:22.560> step<00:46:22.800> back<00:46:23.440> and<00:46:23.760> look<00:46:24.000> at<00:46:24.160> the<00:46:24.400> sheer<00:46:24.880> brute<00:46:25.280> force<00:46:25.599> of<00:46:25.680> it.

00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:29.440
So<00:46:26.160> imagine<00:46:26.400> that<00:46:26.640> the<00:46:26.720> Michael<00:46:27.040> Jackson<00:46:27.359> story<00:46:27.680> was<00:46:27.839> not<00:46:28.079> one<00:46:28.400> case.

00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:34.640
Imagine<00:46:29.680> there<00:46:29.920> were<00:46:30.079> two<00:46:30.400> completely<00:46:30.960> separate<00:46:31.359> cases,<00:46:32.000> then<00:46:32.480> 15,<00:46:33.599> then<00:46:34.079> 20.

00:46:34.640 --> 00:46:40.400
Different<00:46:35.040> families<00:46:35.520> in<00:46:35.839> different<00:46:36.079> cities,<00:46:36.960> different<00:46:37.200> witnesses,<00:46:38.319> no<00:46:38.640> obvious<00:46:39.040> connection<00:46:39.520> between<00:46:39.839> them.

00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:44.880
And<00:46:40.720> every<00:46:41.040> case<00:46:41.359> contains<00:46:41.920> some<00:46:42.319> version<00:46:42.720> of<00:46:42.960> the<00:46:43.200> same<00:46:43.440> unusual<00:46:44.079> claim.

00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.599
Again,<00:46:45.200> I'm<00:46:45.440> not<00:46:45.599> giving<00:46:45.839> a<00:46:46.079> verdict<00:46:46.400> on<00:46:46.640> Michael<00:46:46.960> Jackson.

00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:55.040
I'm<00:46:47.920> talking<00:46:48.240> about<00:46:48.560> what<00:46:48.880> happens<00:46:49.359> to<00:46:49.599> the<00:46:49.760> weight<00:46:50.000> of<00:46:50.240> evidence<00:46:50.560> when<00:46:50.880> one<00:46:51.280> isolated<00:46:51.920> case<00:46:52.240> becomes<00:46:52.720> dozens<00:46:53.440> of<00:46:53.680> independent<00:46:54.319> cases.

00:46:55.040 --> 00:47:02.319
And<00:46:55.200> then<00:46:55.359> imagine<00:46:55.760> that<00:46:56.319> beyond<00:46:56.720> those<00:46:57.040> lawsuits,<00:46:58.240> millions<00:46:58.880> of<00:46:59.119> other<00:46:59.440> people<00:46:59.760> reported<00:47:00.160> something<00:47:00.560> similar<00:47:01.040> had<00:47:01.280> happened<00:47:01.520> to<00:47:01.680> them.

00:47:02.319 --> 00:47:07.599
But<00:47:02.480> most<00:47:02.720> have<00:47:03.040> never<00:47:03.280> filed<00:47:03.760> anything,<00:47:04.240> went<00:47:04.400> to<00:47:04.560> the<00:47:04.720> press,<00:47:05.119> or<00:47:05.359> had<00:47:05.520> their<00:47:05.760> story<00:47:06.079> formally<00:47:06.720> investigated.

00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:10.880
That<00:47:07.839> is<00:47:08.000> closer<00:47:08.240> to<00:47:08.400> what<00:47:08.560> we<00:47:08.720> are<00:47:08.880> dealing<00:47:09.040> with<00:47:09.119> in<00:47:09.359> near-death<00:47:09.920> research.

00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:14.319
Millions<00:47:11.280> of<00:47:11.440> people<00:47:11.680> around<00:47:11.920> the<00:47:12.079> world<00:47:12.319> have<00:47:12.560> reported<00:47:13.200> leaving<00:47:13.520> their<00:47:13.760> bodies.

00:47:14.319 --> 00:47:17.040
Most<00:47:14.560> of<00:47:14.720> them<00:47:14.880> were<00:47:15.119> never<00:47:15.359> interviewed<00:47:15.760> by<00:47:15.839> a<00:47:16.079> researcher.

00:47:17.040 --> 00:47:20.000
No<00:47:17.200> one<00:47:17.440> tracked<00:47:17.760> down<00:47:17.920> the<00:47:18.160> doctor.<00:47:18.560> No<00:47:18.640> one<00:47:18.800> checked<00:47:19.040> the<00:47:19.280> room.

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:22.640
No<00:47:20.160> one<00:47:20.319> compared<00:47:20.720> the<00:47:20.880> account<00:47:21.200> with<00:47:21.359> a<00:47:21.599> medical<00:47:21.920> record.

00:47:22.640 --> 00:47:27.839
And<00:47:22.800> in<00:47:22.880> a<00:47:23.119> lot<00:47:23.200> of<00:47:23.201> the<00:47:23.440> cases,<00:47:23.760> it<00:47:24.000> would<00:47:24.160> have<00:47:24.319> been<00:47:24.480> impossible<00:47:24.960> to<00:47:25.200> reconstruct<00:47:25.760> what<00:47:26.000> happened<00:47:26.319> later<00:47:26.720> anyway.

00:47:27.839 --> 00:47:33.359
So<00:47:28.079> the<00:47:28.319> story<00:47:28.640> stays<00:47:29.200> private.<00:47:29.760> The<00:47:29.920> person<00:47:30.240> tells<00:47:30.560> a<00:47:30.880> spouse,<00:47:31.280> maybe<00:47:31.520> a<00:47:31.680> nurse,<00:47:32.000> maybe<00:47:32.240> no<00:47:32.480> one.

00:47:33.359 --> 00:47:37.599
Sometimes<00:47:33.920> they<00:47:34.160> keep<00:47:34.319> it<00:47:34.480> to<00:47:34.640> themselves<00:47:35.119> because<00:47:35.520> they<00:47:35.839> think<00:47:36.000> they<00:47:36.240> sound<00:47:36.640> crazy.

00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:40.079
And<00:47:37.839> honestly,<00:47:38.319> that<00:47:38.640> makes<00:47:38.880> a<00:47:39.119> lot<00:47:39.200> of<00:47:39.359> sense.

00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:43.040
Most<00:47:40.319> of<00:47:40.480> us<00:47:40.640> have<00:47:40.880> been<00:47:41.040> told<00:47:41.119> that<00:47:41.359> the<00:47:41.520> physical<00:47:41.839> world<00:47:42.079> is<00:47:42.240> all<00:47:42.400> there<00:47:42.640> is.

00:47:43.040 --> 00:47:51.040
So<00:47:43.280> when<00:47:43.520> someone<00:47:43.760> has<00:47:44.000> an<00:47:44.160> experience<00:47:44.560> that<00:47:44.800> seems<00:47:45.040> to<00:47:45.200> violate<00:47:45.680> that<00:47:46.079> so<00:47:46.400> completely,<00:47:47.440> their<00:47:47.760> first<00:47:48.000> thought<00:47:48.400> may<00:47:48.640> not<00:47:48.880> be,<00:47:49.359> "I've<00:47:49.760> discovered<00:47:50.319> something<00:47:50.720> about

00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:56.880
the<00:47:51.280> nature<00:47:51.599> of<00:47:51.839> consciousness."<00:47:53.040> It<00:47:53.280> may<00:47:53.440> be,<00:47:54.000> "What<00:47:54.400> the<00:47:54.720> hell<00:47:55.280> just<00:47:55.599> happened<00:47:55.920> to<00:47:56.079> me?"

00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:02.480
For<00:47:57.119> most<00:47:57.359> people,<00:47:57.680> there<00:47:57.920> is<00:47:58.079> no<00:47:58.240> money<00:47:58.560> in<00:47:58.800> telling<00:47:59.040> the<00:47:59.280> story,<00:47:59.680> no<00:47:59.920> audience,<00:48:00.720> no<00:48:01.040> obvious<00:48:01.520> motive.

00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:09.280
They're<00:48:02.800> simply<00:48:03.119> trying<00:48:03.440> to<00:48:03.760> understand<00:48:04.319> something<00:48:04.720> deeply<00:48:05.200> strange<00:48:05.440> that<00:48:05.760> happened<00:48:06.079> at<00:48:06.319> one<00:48:06.480> of<00:48:06.560> the<00:48:06.720> most<00:48:06.960> vulnerable<00:48:07.520> moments<00:48:07.920> of<00:48:08.079> their<00:48:08.319> entire<00:48:08.720> life.

00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:13.520
Now,<00:48:09.538> some<00:48:09.797> people<00:48:10.055> will<00:48:10.314> accept<00:48:10.572> that<00:48:10.831> at<00:48:11.089> least<00:48:11.348> certain<00:48:11.606> witnesses<00:48:11.865> were<00:48:12.123> telling<00:48:12.382> the<00:48:12.640> truth.

00:48:13.520 --> 00:48:19.920
Take<00:48:13.839> Al<00:48:14.160> Sullivan.<00:48:15.200> His<00:48:15.440> cardiologist<00:48:16.160> confirmed<00:48:16.480> that<00:48:16.640> Sullivan<00:48:17.200> told<00:48:17.359> him<00:48:17.599> about<00:48:17.760> the<00:48:18.000> experience<00:48:18.400> shortly<00:48:18.720> after<00:48:19.119> surgery.

00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:27.040
And<00:48:20.079> the<00:48:20.319> surgeon<00:48:20.720> himself<00:48:21.200> confirmed<00:48:21.680> that<00:48:21.920> yes,<00:48:22.559> he<00:48:22.800> really<00:48:23.040> did<00:48:23.280> hold<00:48:23.520> his<00:48:23.680> hands<00:48:23.920> against<00:48:24.240> his<00:48:24.400> chest<00:48:24.960> and<00:48:25.200> point<00:48:25.520> with<00:48:25.839> his<00:48:26.000> elbows.

00:48:27.040 --> 00:48:33.200
He<00:48:27.280> admitted<00:48:27.599> that<00:48:27.760> he<00:48:27.920> flapped.<00:48:28.960> At<00:48:29.200> that<00:48:29.359> point,<00:48:29.520> you<00:48:29.760> can<00:48:29.839> no<00:48:30.000> longer<00:48:30.240> dismiss<00:48:30.640> the<00:48:30.880> case<00:48:31.040> by<00:48:31.280> saying<00:48:31.520> the<00:48:31.760> witness<00:48:32.079> never<00:48:32.400> confirmed<00:48:32.880> it.

00:48:33.200 --> 00:48:40.640
The<00:48:33.498> witness<00:48:33.796> did.<00:48:34.095> But<00:48:34.393> once<00:48:34.691> you<00:48:34.989> accept<00:48:35.287> that<00:48:35.585> at<00:48:35.884> least<00:48:36.182> some<00:48:36.480> of<00:48:36.778> these<00:48:37.076> witnesses<00:48:37.375> were<00:48:37.673> telling<00:48:37.971> the<00:48:38.269> truth,<00:48:38.567> the<00:48:38.865> argument<00:48:39.164> has<00:48:39.462> to<00:48:39.760> move.

00:48:40.640 --> 00:48:43.520
It<00:48:40.880> can<00:48:40.960> no<00:48:41.200> longer<00:48:41.520> be<00:48:42.160> that<00:48:42.400> never<00:48:42.720> happened.

00:48:43.520 --> 00:48:48.559
It<00:48:43.760> becomes<00:48:44.400> okay,<00:48:44.960> it<00:48:45.280> happened,<00:48:46.240> but<00:48:46.480> there<00:48:46.720> must<00:48:46.880> be<00:48:47.040> some<00:48:47.200> other<00:48:47.440> explanation.

00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:53.280
And<00:48:48.720> this<00:48:48.880> is<00:48:49.040> where<00:48:49.280> some<00:48:49.520> of<00:48:49.680> those<00:48:49.920> explanations<00:48:50.640> start<00:48:50.880> becoming<00:48:51.359> increasingly<00:48:52.079> difficult<00:48:52.400> to<00:48:52.720> believe.

00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:55.839
Now,<00:48:53.440> I<00:48:53.680> don't<00:48:53.760> want<00:48:53.839> to<00:48:54.000> dismiss<00:48:54.400> skepticism<00:48:55.119> here.

00:48:55.839 --> 00:49:03.920
Some<00:48:56.079> people<00:48:56.319> do<00:48:56.559> create<00:48:56.800> what's<00:48:57.119> called<00:48:57.280> a<00:48:57.440> strawman,<00:48:58.079> which<00:48:58.319> is<00:48:58.720> when<00:48:58.960> you<00:48:59.200> replace<00:48:59.839> the<00:49:00.079> real<00:49:00.400> argument<00:49:01.119> with<00:49:01.359> a<00:49:01.520> weaker,<00:49:02.160> easier<00:49:02.640> version<00:49:02.880> of<00:49:03.040> it<00:49:03.200> and<00:49:03.440> then<00:49:03.599> knock

00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:12.640
that<00:49:04.240> version<00:49:04.559> down.<00:49:05.440> So<00:49:05.760> instead<00:49:06.079> of<00:49:06.400> addressing<00:49:06.800> a<00:49:07.040> patient<00:49:07.520> accurately<00:49:08.079> describing<00:49:08.640> a<00:49:08.880> hidden<00:49:09.200> instrument<00:49:09.839> or<00:49:10.240> conversation<00:49:10.880> in<00:49:11.119> another<00:49:11.520> room,<00:49:12.319> someone

00:49:12.640 --> 00:49:16.720
might<00:49:12.880> reduce<00:49:13.200> the<00:49:13.359> entire<00:49:13.760> phenomenon<00:49:14.319> to<00:49:15.119> a<00:49:15.280> dying<00:49:15.599> person<00:49:15.839> saw<00:49:16.079> a<00:49:16.240> light.

00:49:16.720 --> 00:49:24.480
Then<00:49:16.960> they<00:49:17.119> may<00:49:17.280> explain<00:49:17.520> the<00:49:17.760> light<00:49:18.000> through<00:49:18.480> oxygen<00:49:19.040> deprivation<00:49:19.920> and<00:49:20.240> act<00:49:20.480> as<00:49:20.640> though<00:49:20.800> the<00:49:21.040> whole<00:49:21.280> case<00:49:21.680> has<00:49:22.000> been<00:49:22.240> solved,<00:49:23.280> but<00:49:23.520> it<00:49:23.760> hasn't.

00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:28.319
They<00:49:24.800> explained<00:49:25.040> the<00:49:25.200> light.<00:49:25.680> They<00:49:25.839> did<00:49:26.000> not<00:49:26.319> explain<00:49:26.800> the<00:49:27.119> information.

00:49:28.319 --> 00:49:31.920
But<00:49:28.559> other<00:49:28.800> people<00:49:29.119> are<00:49:29.359> genuinely<00:49:30.000> trying<00:49:30.400> to<00:49:30.640> understand<00:49:31.119> what<00:49:31.440> happened.

00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:38.079
And<00:49:32.160> honestly,<00:49:32.559> they<00:49:32.800> should.<00:49:33.200> When<00:49:33.440> the<00:49:33.599> claim<00:49:33.920> is<00:49:34.160> this<00:49:34.480> extraordinary,<00:49:35.200> we<00:49:35.440> should<00:49:35.599> run<00:49:35.839> toward<00:49:36.240> the<00:49:36.480> skeptical<00:49:37.119> explanations.

00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:40.960
Could<00:49:38.319> they<00:49:38.480> have<00:49:38.640> heard<00:49:38.880> something?<00:49:39.359> Could<00:49:39.599> they<00:49:39.760> have<00:49:39.920> guessed?

00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:45.119
Could<00:49:41.119> the<00:49:41.280> memory<00:49:41.680> have<00:49:41.920> changed?<00:49:42.800> Could<00:49:42.960> someone<00:49:43.280> have<00:49:43.440> given<00:49:43.680> them<00:49:43.920> the<00:49:44.240> information<00:49:44.720> later?

00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:49.359
Was<00:49:45.359> it<00:49:45.760> anesthesia<00:49:46.480> awareness,<00:49:47.119> coincidence,<00:49:48.000> fraud?

00:49:49.359 --> 00:49:56.160
You<00:49:49.599> should<00:49:49.839> exhaust<00:49:50.240> every<00:49:50.480> one<00:49:50.640> of<00:49:50.800> those<00:49:50.960> possibilities<00:49:51.599> before<00:49:52.000> concluding<00:49:52.400> that<00:49:52.640> the<00:49:52.880> consciousness<00:49:53.520> has<00:49:53.920> actually<00:49:54.640> left<00:49:54.960> the<00:49:55.200> body.

00:49:56.160 --> 00:50:02.480
And<00:49:56.537> scientists<00:49:56.914> like<00:49:57.291> Bruce<00:49:57.669> Grayson<00:49:58.046> and<00:49:58.423> Pim<00:49:58.800> van<00:49:59.177> Lommel<00:49:59.554> have<00:49:59.931> spent<00:50:00.309> decades<00:50:00.686> doing<00:50:01.063> exactly<00:50:01.440> that.

00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:06.559
Their<00:50:02.720> point<00:50:02.960> is<00:50:03.200> not<00:50:03.440> that<00:50:03.760> natural<00:50:04.240> explanations<00:50:05.119> never<00:50:05.520> explain<00:50:05.920> anything.

00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:12.240
Some<00:50:06.960> probably<00:50:07.359> do.<00:50:08.160> The<00:50:08.400> point<00:50:08.640> is<00:50:08.800> that<00:50:09.040> they<00:50:09.280> do<00:50:09.440> not<00:50:09.680> explain<00:50:10.079> the<00:50:10.319> phenomenon<00:50:10.960> as<00:50:11.200> a<00:50:11.440> whole.

00:50:12.240 --> 00:50:20.480
The<00:50:12.400> dying<00:50:12.800> brain<00:50:13.040> theory<00:50:13.359> may<00:50:13.520> help<00:50:13.760> explain<00:50:14.079> why<00:50:14.319> someone<00:50:14.640> sees<00:50:14.880> the<00:50:15.119> light<00:50:15.359> or<00:50:15.760> feels<00:50:16.160> peace<00:50:16.559> maybe<00:50:17.119> or<00:50:17.440> has<00:50:17.599> a<00:50:17.839> sensation<00:50:18.400> of<00:50:18.640> moving<00:50:18.880> through<00:50:19.119> a<00:50:19.280> tunnel<00:50:19.680> maybe.

00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:25.440
But<00:50:20.880> a<00:50:21.119> dying<00:50:21.520> brain<00:50:21.839> does<00:50:22.000> not<00:50:22.240> explain<00:50:22.640> the<00:50:22.960> surgeon<00:50:23.520> pointing<00:50:24.000> with<00:50:24.400> his<00:50:24.640> elbows.

00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.559
It<00:50:25.599> does<00:50:25.760> not<00:50:25.920> explain<00:50:26.160> the<00:50:26.400> stain<00:50:26.720> hidden<00:50:27.119> under<00:50:27.440> Grayson's<00:50:27.920> coat.

00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:36.480
It<00:50:28.720> does<00:50:28.880> not<00:50:29.040> explain<00:50:29.359> the<00:50:29.599> glass<00:50:29.920> file<00:50:30.240> in<00:50:30.480> another<00:50:30.720> room,<00:50:31.119> the<00:50:31.359> 1985<00:50:32.319> quarter,<00:50:33.040> or<00:50:33.200> the<00:50:33.359> post-it<00:50:33.760> notes<00:50:34.079> that<00:50:34.240> appeared<00:50:34.559> while<00:50:34.720> the<00:50:34.880> patient<00:50:35.200> was<00:50:35.359> unconscious.

00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:39.119
This<00:50:36.640> is<00:50:36.720> where<00:50:36.880> I<00:50:37.040> think<00:50:37.200> Occam's<00:50:37.760> razor<00:50:38.160> becomes<00:50:38.559> important.

00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:47.040
Occam's<00:50:39.599> razor<00:50:39.920> is<00:50:40.079> basically<00:50:40.400> a<00:50:40.720> problem<00:50:41.040> solving<00:50:41.359> rule<00:50:41.839> that<00:50:42.160> says<00:50:42.400> when<00:50:42.720> several<00:50:43.119> explanations<00:50:43.760> are<00:50:44.000> possible,<00:50:44.800> the<00:50:45.040> simplest<00:50:45.440> one<00:50:45.599> that<00:50:45.839> accounts<00:50:46.160> for<00:50:46.319> the<00:50:46.480> facts

00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:49.280
is<00:50:47.359> usually<00:50:47.760> the<00:50:48.000> best<00:50:48.160> place<00:50:48.400> to<00:50:48.720> start.

00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:51.839
And<00:50:49.440> we<00:50:49.599> use<00:50:49.760> this<00:50:50.000> everywhere<00:50:50.400> without<00:50:50.800> thinking<00:50:51.119> about<00:50:51.280> it.

00:50:51.839 --> 00:51:00.400
So<00:50:52.079> if<00:50:52.400> five<00:50:52.800> lights<00:50:53.200> suddenly<00:50:53.680> go<00:50:53.839> out<00:50:54.000> in<00:50:54.240> the<00:50:54.400> same<00:50:54.559> part<00:50:54.720> of<00:50:54.880> your<00:50:55.040> house,<00:50:55.599> you<00:50:55.839> don't<00:50:56.240> automatically<00:50:57.040> assume<00:50:57.599> five<00:50:58.000> bulbs<00:50:58.480> independently<00:50:59.200> died<00:50:59.440> at<00:50:59.680> that<00:50:59.920> exact

00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:04.640
moment.<00:51:01.119> You<00:51:01.359> look<00:51:01.520> for<00:51:01.680> one<00:51:01.920> problem<00:51:02.160> in<00:51:02.400> the<00:51:02.559> circuit<00:51:02.880> that<00:51:03.119> explains<00:51:03.599> all<00:51:03.839> five.

00:51:04.640 --> 00:51:12.640
And<00:51:04.880> I<00:51:05.040> think<00:51:05.119> it<00:51:05.280> is<00:51:05.440> worth<00:51:05.599> applying<00:51:06.000> that<00:51:06.240> same<00:51:06.400> logic<00:51:06.800> here<00:51:07.119> because<00:51:07.680> to<00:51:08.079> keep<00:51:08.400> consciousness<00:51:09.200> completely<00:51:09.760> trapped<00:51:10.160> inside<00:51:10.559> the<00:51:10.800> brain,<00:51:11.440> we<00:51:11.760> need<00:51:12.079> a<00:51:12.400> different

00:51:12.640 --> 00:51:15.760
rescue<00:51:13.200> explanation<00:51:13.839> for<00:51:14.079> almost<00:51:14.559> every<00:51:14.880> case.

00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:18.800
This<00:51:16.000> patient<00:51:16.240> overheard<00:51:16.720> something.<00:51:17.280> That<00:51:17.520> patient<00:51:17.839> guessed.

00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.640
This<00:51:19.040> doctor<00:51:19.359> remembered<00:51:19.760> it<00:51:19.920> wrong.<00:51:20.480> That<00:51:20.720> nurse<00:51:20.960> unknowingly<00:51:21.599> passed<00:51:21.839> along<00:51:22.160> information.

00:51:22.640 --> 00:51:26.640
The<00:51:22.800> family's<00:51:23.280> memories<00:51:23.680> merged.<00:51:24.319> The<00:51:24.559> hidden<00:51:24.880> object<00:51:25.200> was<00:51:25.440> a<00:51:25.680> coincidence.

00:51:26.640 --> 00:51:29.680
That<00:51:26.880> surgical<00:51:27.359> description<00:51:27.920> came<00:51:28.160> from<00:51:28.640> television.

00:51:29.680 --> 00:51:37.920
And<00:51:29.920> maybe<00:51:30.480> one<00:51:30.720> of<00:51:30.800> those<00:51:31.359> explanations<00:51:31.920> is<00:51:32.240> right<00:51:32.400> in<00:51:32.720> one<00:51:32.960> case,<00:51:33.440> but<00:51:33.680> when<00:51:33.839> you<00:51:33.920> need<00:51:34.160> a<00:51:34.400> new<00:51:34.640> explanation<00:51:35.440> every<00:51:35.839> single<00:51:36.160> time<00:51:36.319> the<00:51:36.559> conditions<00:51:37.040> change,<00:51:37.680> at

00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:43.119
some<00:51:38.160> point<00:51:38.559> the<00:51:38.880> simple<00:51:39.440> material<00:51:40.000> explanation<00:51:40.640> is<00:51:40.960> no<00:51:41.200> longer<00:51:41.599> simple<00:51:42.000> at<00:51:42.240> all.

00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:49.920
And<00:51:43.359> yes,<00:51:44.000> considering<00:51:44.559> the<00:51:44.800> alternative<00:51:45.680> is<00:51:46.480> extraordinary,<00:51:47.839> but<00:51:48.000> it's<00:51:48.319> also<00:51:48.800> straightforward.

00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:58.480
The<00:51:50.160> person<00:51:50.480> remained<00:51:51.040> conscious.<00:51:52.000> Their<00:51:52.319> awareness<00:51:52.800> was<00:51:53.040> no<00:51:53.280> longer<00:51:53.680> confined<00:51:54.079> to<00:51:54.319> the<00:51:54.480> location<00:51:54.800> of<00:51:55.040> their<00:51:55.200> physical<00:51:55.599> body<00:51:56.400> and<00:51:56.640> they<00:51:56.880> came<00:51:57.119> back<00:51:57.599> with<00:51:57.920> information

00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:06.800
from<00:51:58.960> wherever<00:51:59.359> they<00:51:59.599> had<00:51:59.839> been.<00:52:00.720> So<00:52:00.960> what<00:52:01.119> if<00:52:01.280> the<00:52:01.599> simplest<00:52:02.079> explanation<00:52:03.119> is<00:52:03.440> also<00:52:03.760> the<00:52:03.920> one<00:52:04.079> these<00:52:04.400> people<00:52:04.559> have<00:52:04.800> been<00:52:04.960> giving<00:52:05.280> all<00:52:05.599> along?

00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:10.960
What<00:52:06.960> if<00:52:07.280> consciousness<00:52:08.400> actually<00:52:09.040> survives<00:52:10.000> death?

00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:13.040
All<00:52:11.127> right,<00:52:11.295> you<00:52:11.462> stayed<00:52:11.629> with<00:52:11.796> me<00:52:11.964> all<00:52:12.131> the<00:52:12.298> way<00:52:12.465> to<00:52:12.633> the<00:52:12.800> end.

00:52:13.040 --> 00:52:15.200
So<00:52:13.200> let<00:52:13.359> me<00:52:13.440> bring<00:52:13.599> you<00:52:13.839> backstage<00:52:14.319> for<00:52:14.559> a<00:52:14.720> minute.

00:52:15.200 --> 00:52:19.680
I<00:52:15.440> want<00:52:15.520> to<00:52:15.680> show<00:52:15.760> you<00:52:16.000> how<00:52:16.160> we<00:52:16.400> decide<00:52:16.800> what<00:52:17.119> actually<00:52:17.520> makes<00:52:17.760> it<00:52:18.000> into<00:52:18.400> an<00:52:18.720> episode.

00:52:19.680 --> 00:52:23.599
As<00:52:19.920> you<00:52:20.079> learned<00:52:20.319> at<00:52:20.480> Mighty<00:52:20.800> Pursuit,<00:52:21.200> we're<00:52:21.440> mapping<00:52:21.839> the<00:52:22.079> human<00:52:22.480> experience.

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But<00:52:23.680> a<00:52:23.920> map<00:52:24.160> only<00:52:24.400> helps<00:52:24.720> if<00:52:24.960> the<00:52:25.200> guidance<00:52:25.680> inside<00:52:26.079> it<00:52:26.400> can<00:52:26.720> actually<00:52:27.119> be<00:52:27.359> trusted.

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That's<00:52:28.800> why<00:52:28.960> we<00:52:29.119> make<00:52:29.280> sense<00:52:29.520> of<00:52:29.680> life<00:52:29.920> by<00:52:30.160> bringing<00:52:30.559> together<00:52:31.040> four<00:52:31.440> sources:<00:52:32.400> science,<00:52:33.200> spirituality,<00:52:34.240> history,<00:52:34.960> and<00:52:35.280> lived<00:52:35.599> experience.

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Science<00:52:37.440> tells<00:52:37.760> us<00:52:37.920> what<00:52:38.079> the<00:52:38.319> evidence<00:52:38.720> supports.

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Spirituality<00:52:40.559> teaches<00:52:40.880> us<00:52:41.119> what<00:52:41.440> life<00:52:41.680> is<00:52:41.920> for.

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History,<00:52:43.440> on<00:52:43.680> the<00:52:43.760> other<00:52:43.920> hand,<00:52:44.240> shows<00:52:44.559> us<00:52:44.720> what<00:52:45.040> people<00:52:45.359> have<00:52:45.599> tried.

00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:49.520
And<00:52:46.720> lived<00:52:47.119> experience<00:52:47.680> brings<00:52:48.079> the<00:52:48.400> final<00:52:48.720> test.

00:52:49.520 --> 00:52:53.040
Does<00:52:49.760> any<00:52:50.000> of<00:52:50.160> it<00:52:50.480> actually<00:52:50.960> hold<00:52:51.200> up<00:52:51.440> in<00:52:51.680> your<00:52:51.839> real<00:52:52.079> life?

00:52:53.040 --> 00:52:56.400
Now,<00:52:53.440> not<00:52:53.760> every<00:52:54.160> episode<00:52:54.640> draws<00:52:55.040> equally<00:52:55.440> from<00:52:55.760> all<00:52:55.920> four.

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Today,<00:52:56.720> we<00:52:56.880> leaned<00:52:57.200> heavily<00:52:57.599> on<00:52:57.920> science<00:52:58.400> and<00:52:58.720> lived<00:52:59.119> experience.

00:52:59.920 --> 00:53:07.440
We<00:53:00.160> looked<00:53:00.319> at<00:53:00.559> decades<00:53:00.960> of<00:53:01.119> near-death<00:53:01.680> research<00:53:02.559> alongside<00:53:03.119> the<00:53:03.359> extraordinary<00:53:04.000> accounts<00:53:04.400> of<00:53:04.640> people<00:53:04.800> who<00:53:05.040> came<00:53:05.280> back<00:53:05.520> describing<00:53:06.160> things<00:53:06.400> that<00:53:06.559> were<00:53:06.800> seemingly

00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:13.839
unknowable.<00:53:08.720> Ultimately,<00:53:09.359> the<00:53:09.599> goal<00:53:09.839> is<00:53:10.079> always<00:53:10.319> to<00:53:10.480> build<00:53:10.720> the<00:53:10.960> fullest,<00:53:11.520> most<00:53:11.760> trustworthy<00:53:12.480> picture<00:53:12.720> we<00:53:13.040> can.

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So,<00:53:14.079> if<00:53:14.240> you<00:53:14.319> want<00:53:14.480> to<00:53:14.559> keep<00:53:14.800> building<00:53:15.040> a<00:53:15.280> clearer<00:53:15.680> map<00:53:15.920> for<00:53:16.079> your<00:53:16.319> own<00:53:16.480> life,<00:53:16.880> there<00:53:17.040> are<00:53:17.200> really<00:53:17.520> two<00:53:17.839> ways<00:53:18.079> to<00:53:18.319> stay<00:53:18.559> connected<00:53:18.880> with<00:53:19.119> us<00:53:19.359> each<00:53:19.599> week.

00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:24.240
Every<00:53:20.720> Tuesday,<00:53:21.200> the<00:53:21.440> podcast<00:53:21.839> helps<00:53:22.079> you<00:53:22.240> make<00:53:22.400> sense<00:53:22.640> of<00:53:22.880> one<00:53:23.119> part<00:53:23.359> of<00:53:23.520> life.

00:53:24.240 --> 00:53:32.640
And<00:53:24.480> every<00:53:24.800> Thursday,<00:53:25.440> our<00:53:25.680> newsletter,<00:53:26.400> The<00:53:26.640> Nine,<00:53:27.119> zooms<00:53:27.599> back<00:53:27.920> out<00:53:28.319> across<00:53:28.800> all<00:53:29.200> major<00:53:29.599> nine<00:53:30.000> areas,<00:53:30.720> so<00:53:30.960> you<00:53:31.119> don't<00:53:31.280> lose<00:53:31.520> sight<00:53:31.760> of<00:53:32.000> everything<00:53:32.319> else

00:53:32.640 --> 00:53:41.760
that<00:53:33.059> matters.<00:53:33.478> So,<00:53:33.896> subscribe<00:53:34.315> to<00:53:34.734> the<00:53:35.153> show,<00:53:35.572> join<00:53:35.991> The<00:53:36.409> Nine<00:53:36.828> at<00:53:37.247> mightypursuit.com/then,<00:53:37.666> and<00:53:38.085> I'll<00:53:38.504> see<00:53:38.922> you<00:53:39.341> next<00:53:39.760> week.

```