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# Raymond Moody: Near-Death Experience as a Gateway to the Afterlife | Sivananda Ashram
- URL: https://famouspsychicmediums.com/episodes/raymond-moody-near-death-experience-as-a-gateway-to-the-afterlife-sivananda-ashram/
- Published: 2026-09-18T14:26:29.000Z
- Updated: 2026-09-18T14:26:29.000Z
- Description: Explore the profound world of near-death and shared death experiences with pioneer Dr. Raymond Moody as he discusses the empathic life review, the limits of scientism, and why the ultimate purpose of our existence is to learn how to love.
- Author: Angie Li
- Tags: NDE, Science

Dr. Raymond Moody, a pioneer in the study of near-death experiences (NDEs), shares his personal journey from a non-religious upbringing to becoming a philosopher and psychiatrist dedicated to understanding NDEs. He recounts how his perspective shifted from skepticism to a deep acceptance of the afterlife, sparked initially by Plato's writings and later solidified by the profound accounts of thousands of patients, including his mentor Dr. George Ritchie.

Dr. Moody details the universal elements of NDEs, such as out-of-body sensations, traveling through a tunnel, encountering a loving light, and undergoing a holographic life review. He explains the unique empathic nature of this life review, where individuals experience their actions from the perspective of those they interacted with, highlighting that the ultimate purpose of life is to learn how to love and acquire knowledge.

The discussion also explores shared death experiences, where healthy bystanders or medical professionals witness or co-experience NDE elements alongside a dying person. Dr. Moody addresses the limitations of scientism, the growing openness within the medical community toward NDEs, and the intriguing philosophical concept of life as a scripted theatrical play where we eventually get to see the performance from every angle.

### Key takeaways

- Near-death experiences (NDEs) share remarkably consistent elements worldwide, including out-of-body awareness, a tunnel transition, and a profound sense of peace and love.
- The life review is an empathic process where individuals relive their actions from the perspective of the people they impacted, emphasizing the importance of love and kindness.
- Shared death experiences occur when healthy bystanders, including doctors and relatives, witness NDE phenomena or co-experience a dying person's life review.
- Scientism falsely claims that the scientific method is the only path to knowledge, whereas philosophical inquiry is essential for exploring the reality of consciousness and the afterlife.
- The ultimate lessons brought back by NDE survivors are that life's primary purposes are to learn how to love and to continuously seek knowledge.

### Highlights

- 1:58 — Plato's Influence on Dr. Moody's Journey
- 7:25 — The Out-of-Body Experience Explained
- 14:30 — The Empathic Nature of the Life Review
- 22:53 — The Ultimate Purpose of Life: Learning to Love
- 33:50 — The Phenomenon of Shared Death Experiences
- 45:53 — A Surgeon's Astonishing Patient Story

```chapters
00:00:00 Introduction to Near-Death Experiences
00:03:52 Meeting Dr. George Ritchie
00:06:22 Common Elements of Near-Death Experiences
00:14:30 The Life Review and Empathic Connection
00:20:59 Lessons Learned from the Brink of Death
00:26:51 Science, Scientism, and Proof of Afterlife
00:33:50 Shared Death Experiences of Bystanders
00:43:00 Medical Community and the Afterlife
00:50:26 Life as a Scripted Theater Play
00:54:12 Audience Questions and Closing Remarks
```

```vtt
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the<00:04:54.199> great<00:04:54.720> privilege<00:04:55.199> and<00:04:55.639> honor<00:04:56.639> of<00:04:56.880> talking<00:04:57.440> with<00:04:57.759> literally<00:04:58.400> thousands<00:04:59.199> of<00:04:59.400> people,<00:04:59.720> people<00:05:00.479> from<00:05:00.840> all<00:05:01.160> over<00:05:01.520> the<00:05:01.680> world<00:05:02.120> who

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came<00:05:02.560> to<00:05:02.759> the<00:05:02.880> brink<00:05:03.240> of<00:05:03.520> death<00:05:04.360> and<00:05:04.560> who<00:05:04.880> had<00:05:05.400> an<00:05:05.720> experience<00:05:06.720> on<00:05:06.919> the<00:05:07.080> verge<00:05:07.400> of<00:05:07.680> death<00:05:08.479> that<00:05:08.919> totally<00:05:09.400> changed<00:05:09.919> their<00:05:10.600> lives.

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Um,<00:05:13.000> throughout<00:05:13.479> this<00:05:13.800> process,<00:05:14.400> I<00:05:14.919> must<00:05:15.919> admit<00:05:16.639> I<00:05:16.840> knew<00:05:17.320> that<00:05:17.560> these<00:05:17.840> people<00:05:18.120> were<00:05:18.639> sincere,<00:05:19.639> but<00:05:19.919> the<00:05:20.199> idea

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that,<00:05:21.919> of<00:05:22.240> that<00:05:22.400> we<00:05:22.560> would<00:05:22.759> ever<00:05:23.039> know<00:05:23.560> for<00:05:23.800> sure<00:05:24.240> whether<00:05:24.560> there<00:05:24.800> is<00:05:24.960> or<00:05:25.240> isn't<00:05:25.759> an<00:05:26.360> afterlife,<00:05:27.360> to<00:05:27.560> me,<00:05:27.919> just<00:05:28.319> was<00:05:28.639> not<00:05:29.360> very

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realistic.<00:05:30.800> I,<00:05:31.000> I<00:05:31.800> never,<00:05:32.800> um,<00:05:33.360> suspected<00:05:34.080> when<00:05:34.280> I<00:05:34.360> was<00:05:34.520> a<00:05:34.680> younger<00:05:35.120> person<00:05:35.639> that<00:05:36.000> I<00:05:36.120> might<00:05:36.440> reach<00:05:36.680> a<00:05:36.880> point<00:05:37.080> in<00:05:37.240> my<00:05:37.440> life<00:05:37.759> where<00:05:37.919> I

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really<00:05:38.479> seriously<00:05:39.120> entertained<00:05:39.880> the<00:05:40.680> notion<00:05:41.680> that<00:05:42.440> it<00:05:42.600> was<00:05:42.800> a<00:05:43.840> reality,<00:05:44.840> but<00:05:45.039> through<00:05:45.280> a<00:05:45.479> long<00:05:46.039> process,<00:05:46.639> I've

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now<00:05:47.120> come<00:05:47.360> to<00:05:47.520> the<00:05:47.800> point<00:05:48.240> where<00:05:49.199> I<00:05:49.360> do<00:05:49.720> accept<00:05:50.360> that,<00:05:50.560> to<00:05:50.800> my<00:05:51.039> utter<00:05:51.919> astonishment,<00:05:52.919> this<00:05:53.120> is<00:05:53.319> a<00:05:54.120> reality,<00:05:55.120> um.

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By<00:05:56.039> the<00:05:56.160> way,<00:05:56.319> I<00:05:56.440> would<00:05:56.600> never<00:05:56.880> try<00:05:57.080> to<00:05:57.319> convince<00:05:57.919> anybody<00:05:58.440> else<00:05:58.800> of<00:05:59.080> that,<00:06:00.080> but<00:06:00.319> to<00:06:00.639> me,<00:06:01.639> um,<00:06:02.639> I<00:06:02.759> have<00:06:03.080> really<00:06:03.319> reached<00:06:03.680> the<00:06:03.840> point<00:06:04.080> where

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I<00:06:04.479> give<00:06:04.720> up<00:06:04.960> and<00:06:05.199> try,<00:06:05.759> have<00:06:05.960> given<00:06:06.240> up<00:06:06.800> trying<00:06:07.560> to<00:06:08.560> account<00:06:09.000> for<00:06:09.360> this<00:06:09.800> by<00:06:10.080> any<00:06:10.360> other<00:06:10.639> means<00:06:11.160> than<00:06:11.440> to<00:06:11.840> introduce<00:06:12.440> the

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notion<00:06:13.199> that,<00:06:13.400> to<00:06:13.800> my<00:06:14.560> utter<00:06:15.440> astonishment,<00:06:16.440> we<00:06:16.639> do<00:06:16.960> seem<00:06:17.319> to<00:06:18.000> survive<00:06:19.199> death.<00:06:20.199> Now,<00:06:21.800> um,

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to<00:06:23.039> talk<00:06:23.280> a<00:06:23.400> little<00:06:23.680> bit<00:06:23.880> about,<00:06:24.319> first<00:06:24.599> of<00:06:24.800> all,<00:06:25.800> um,<00:06:26.800> what<00:06:27.160> is<00:06:27.319> it<00:06:27.599> that<00:06:27.840> people<00:06:28.240> tell<00:06:28.560> us<00:06:29.000> when<00:06:29.280> they<00:06:29.680> come<00:06:29.919> to<00:06:30.120> the<00:06:30.240> brink<00:06:30.560> of<00:06:30.759> death<00:06:31.440> and

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are<00:06:32.759> revived?<00:06:33.759> And<00:06:34.000> unless<00:06:34.400> you<00:06:34.599> have<00:06:34.800> been<00:06:35.080> hiding<00:06:35.440> out<00:06:35.639> in<00:06:35.840> the<00:06:36.000> high<00:06:36.360> Himalayas<00:06:37.160> for<00:06:37.400> the<00:06:37.680> last<00:06:38.400> 40<00:06:38.880> years,<00:06:39.400> which<00:06:39.599> maybe<00:06:40.000> some<00:06:40.240> of

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you<00:06:41.080> have,<00:06:42.319> um,<00:06:43.319> you've<00:06:43.880> no<00:06:44.199> doubt<00:06:44.479> heard<00:06:45.000> this,<00:06:45.880> but<00:06:46.160> always<00:06:46.759> there<00:06:46.880> are<00:06:47.000> a<00:06:47.080> few<00:06:47.319> people<00:06:47.639> who<00:06:47.880> maybe<00:06:48.599> this

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is<00:06:49.240> an<00:06:49.440> initial<00:06:50.639> introduction,<00:06:51.639> um,<00:06:52.440> to<00:06:52.720> this<00:06:53.199> subject.<00:06:54.199> So<00:06:55.000> what<00:06:55.160> I<00:06:55.280> will<00:06:55.520> describe<00:06:56.039> now<00:06:56.319> is<00:06:56.960> not

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not<00:06:57.919> just<00:06:58.280> what<00:06:58.639> I<00:06:59.680> have<00:07:00.479> learned<00:07:01.000> from<00:07:01.360> people<00:07:01.720> I've<00:07:01.919> talked<00:07:02.319> with,<00:07:03.000> but<00:07:03.280> also<00:07:03.720> now<00:07:04.599> multiple<00:07:05.400> physicians<00:07:06.280> all

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over<00:07:06.840> the<00:07:07.000> world<00:07:07.879> have<00:07:08.160> investigated<00:07:09.160> these<00:07:10.160> experiences,<00:07:11.160> and<00:07:11.360> we<00:07:11.520> find<00:07:11.800> that<00:07:12.000> they<00:07:12.120> are<00:07:12.440> very<00:07:12.840> similar<00:07:13.800> all<00:07:14.039> over<00:07:14.319> the<00:07:14.800> world.

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And<00:07:16.000> that<00:07:16.160> is<00:07:16.440> that<00:07:17.080> basically<00:07:18.080> people<00:07:18.440> tell<00:07:18.759> us<00:07:19.199> that<00:07:19.440> when,<00:07:19.759> for<00:07:20.000> example,<00:07:20.479> they<00:07:20.639> undergo<00:07:21.199> a<00:07:21.400> cardiac<00:07:22.039> arrest<00:07:23.039> from<00:07:23.319> which<00:07:23.720> they<00:07:23.840> are

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resuscitated,<00:07:26.319> um,<00:07:27.080> they,<00:07:27.440> they<00:07:27.599> tell<00:07:27.879> us<00:07:28.199> that<00:07:28.879> very<00:07:29.120> often<00:07:29.560> they<00:07:29.800> actually<00:07:30.319> hear<00:07:30.639> the<00:07:30.919> doctor<00:07:31.319> or<00:07:31.599> nurse<00:07:32.120> or<00:07:32.360> some<00:07:32.639> other<00:07:33.080> person<00:07:34.080> present

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say<00:07:35.035> something<00:07:35.471> such<00:07:35.907> as,<00:07:36.343> "Oh<00:07:36.779> my<00:07:37.215> God,<00:07:37.651> he's<00:07:38.087> dead,"<00:07:38.523> or,<00:07:38.959> "We've<00:07:39.395> lost<00:07:39.831> her,"<00:07:40.267> or<00:07:40.703> words<00:07:41.139> to<00:07:41.575> that<00:07:42.011> effect,<00:07:42.447> which<00:07:42.883> surprises<00:07:43.319> them

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because<00:07:44.000> a,<00:07:44.639> a<00:07:45.280> statement<00:07:45.879> I<00:07:46.159> hear,<00:07:47.159> uh,<00:07:47.319> in<00:07:47.680> various<00:07:48.440> wordings<00:07:49.240> but<00:07:49.440> the<00:07:49.639> same<00:07:50.120> thought<00:07:51.120> from<00:07:51.520> people<00:07:52.000> literally

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all<00:07:52.800> over<00:07:53.120> the<00:07:53.240> world,<00:07:53.680> I've<00:07:53.879> heard<00:07:54.520> this,<00:07:55.520> that<00:07:55.800> people<00:07:56.159> tell<00:07:56.440> me<00:07:56.800> that<00:07:57.159> in<00:07:57.479> effect,<00:07:58.479> "I<00:07:58.680> have<00:07:58.919> never<00:07:59.599> been<00:07:59.800> so<00:08:00.479> alive<00:08:01.479> as

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when<00:08:01.879> I<00:08:02.039> heard<00:08:02.440> that<00:08:02.720> doctor<00:08:03.159> say<00:08:03.560> I<00:08:03.720> was<00:08:04.599> dead,"<00:08:05.599> because<00:08:06.159> what<00:08:06.400> people<00:08:06.759> tell<00:08:07.080> us<00:08:07.319> is<00:08:08.280> that<00:08:08.440> at<00:08:08.680> this<00:08:09.039> point<00:08:10.039> where

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they<00:08:10.400> hear<00:08:10.800> themselves<00:08:11.199> pronounced<00:08:11.840> dead,<00:08:12.840> dead,<00:08:13.840> from<00:08:14.120> their<00:08:14.360> point<00:08:14.560> of<00:08:14.720> view,<00:08:15.120> they<00:08:15.280> tell<00:08:15.599> us<00:08:15.840> that<00:08:16.080> they<00:08:16.360> actually<00:08:16.960> exit<00:08:17.479> their<00:08:17.800> physical<00:08:18.879> body

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and<00:08:20.440> they,<00:08:21.080> um,<00:08:21.960> rise<00:08:22.400> up<00:08:23.039> and<00:08:23.199> they<00:08:23.479> look<00:08:23.960> down,<00:08:24.960> and,<00:08:25.240> and<00:08:25.479> they<00:08:25.639> say<00:08:25.919> that<00:08:26.159> they<00:08:26.319> can<00:08:26.599> see<00:08:27.560> from<00:08:27.879> above

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the<00:08:28.639> scene<00:08:28.960> of<00:08:29.120> the<00:08:29.919> resuscitation.<00:08:30.919> They<00:08:31.080> see<00:08:31.400> their<00:08:31.599> own<00:08:31.960> bodies<00:08:32.440> lying,<00:08:33.240> and<00:08:33.839> now<00:08:34.159> apparently<00:08:34.800> dead,<00:08:35.719> at<00:08:35.839> the<00:08:35.959> scene<00:08:36.279> of<00:08:36.440> an<00:08:36.760> accident

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or<00:08:37.880> on<00:08:38.080> the<00:08:38.279> table<00:08:38.680> of<00:08:38.839> the<00:08:39.080> operating<00:08:40.279> room,<00:08:41.279> and,<00:08:42.360> um,<00:08:43.360> they,<00:08:43.800> they<00:08:44.000> become<00:08:44.320> aware<00:08:44.720> that<00:08:44.959> they<00:08:45.120> can<00:08:46.000> understand

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what<00:08:46.800> is<00:08:47.080> going<00:08:47.399> on<00:08:48.120> among<00:08:48.480> the<00:08:48.720> doctors<00:08:49.120> and<00:08:49.360> nurses<00:08:50.000> down<00:08:50.279> below.<00:08:51.160> This,<00:08:51.440> they<00:08:51.600> say,<00:08:51.839> it's<00:08:52.080> not<00:08:52.320> like<00:08:52.519> you<00:08:52.680> hear<00:08:52.959> a<00:08:53.200> physical<00:08:53.880> voice<00:08:54.200> or<00:08:54.360> an<00:08:54.560> auditory<00:08:55.480> sensation,

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but<00:08:56.720> rather<00:08:57.120> that<00:08:57.240> you<00:08:57.480> become<00:08:57.880> aware<00:08:58.279> of<00:08:58.480> what<00:08:58.680> the<00:08:58.880> doctors<00:08:59.240> are<00:08:59.440> or<00:08:59.600> nurses<00:09:00.040> are<00:09:01.040> thinking,<00:09:02.040> and<00:09:02.440> that<00:09:02.720> from<00:09:03.079> this<00:09:03.320> point<00:09:03.560> of<00:09:03.920> view,<00:09:04.920> they

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they<00:09:06.240> naturally<00:09:06.680> would<00:09:06.880> try<00:09:07.079> to<00:09:07.320> ask<00:09:08.000> to<00:09:08.200> the<00:09:08.399> doctor,<00:09:08.880> "How<00:09:09.079> can<00:09:09.240> it<00:09:09.440> be<00:09:09.680> that<00:09:09.839> I'm<00:09:10.399> up<00:09:10.640> above<00:09:11.079> my<00:09:11.320> body<00:09:11.720> here<00:09:12.040> looking<00:09:12.360> at<00:09:12.519> you<00:09:12.800> down<00:09:13.160> below?"<00:09:14.160> But

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they<00:09:14.600> quickly<00:09:15.120> are<00:09:15.480> aware<00:09:15.959> that<00:09:16.720> the<00:09:16.959> doctor<00:09:17.320> and<00:09:17.560> nurse<00:09:17.880> are<00:09:18.079> unable<00:09:18.560> to<00:09:18.839> hear<00:09:19.160> them<00:09:19.440> or<00:09:19.640> to<00:09:20.240> understand<00:09:20.519> them.<00:09:21.519> They<00:09:21.680> may,<00:09:22.160> for<00:09:22.399> example,

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to<00:09:23.079> try<00:09:23.279> to<00:09:23.519> get<00:09:23.680> the<00:09:23.880> doctor's<00:09:24.399> attention<00:09:24.959> by<00:09:25.560> touching<00:09:26.560> the<00:09:27.040> him<00:09:27.240> or<00:09:27.560> her,<00:09:28.560> um,<00:09:28.800> to<00:09:28.959> get<00:09:29.079> their<00:09:29.440> attention,<00:09:29.800> but<00:09:30.000> they<00:09:30.160> find<00:09:30.440> that<00:09:30.600> when<00:09:30.760> they<00:09:30.880> do,

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they<00:09:31.640> can<00:09:31.920> make<00:09:32.200> no<00:09:32.560> contact.<00:09:33.200> It's<00:09:33.440> like<00:09:33.760> they,<00:09:34.079> they<00:09:34.240> go<00:09:34.519> through<00:09:35.040> the<00:09:35.240> body<00:09:35.600> of<00:09:35.800> the<00:09:36.279> doctor<00:09:36.640> or<00:09:37.279> nurse,<00:09:38.279> and<00:09:38.959> quickly<00:09:39.360> in

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this<00:09:40.920> situation<00:09:41.920> become<00:09:42.320> aware,<00:09:42.959> begin<00:09:43.200> to<00:09:43.440> formulate<00:09:44.000> to<00:09:44.839> themselves<00:09:45.399> the<00:09:45.959> idea<00:09:46.959> that<00:09:47.440> this<00:09:47.800> has

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to<00:09:48.200> do<00:09:48.519> with<00:09:49.600> death,<00:09:50.600> and<00:09:51.120> at<00:09:51.360> that<00:09:52.000> point,<00:09:53.000> people<00:09:53.519> enter<00:09:53.959> into<00:09:54.399> a<00:09:54.680> state<00:09:55.000> of<00:09:55.440> consciousness<00:09:56.440> that

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no<00:09:57.279> matter<00:09:57.720> how<00:09:58.079> articulate<00:09:58.880> they<00:09:59.040> may<00:09:59.560> be<00:09:59.880> or<00:10:00.720> however<00:10:01.040> many<00:10:01.440> languages<00:10:02.160> they<00:10:02.440> may<00:10:02.800> speak,<00:10:03.800> people<00:10:04.200> all<00:10:04.399> over<00:10:04.640> the<00:10:04.800> world<00:10:05.120> tell

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me<00:10:05.720> that<00:10:06.279> there<00:10:06.519> are<00:10:06.839> no<00:10:07.160> words<00:10:07.680> for<00:10:08.040> this,<00:10:08.720> that<00:10:09.120> this<00:10:09.320> is<00:10:09.640> something<00:10:10.200> that<00:10:10.800> lies<00:10:11.399> beyond<00:10:11.880> their<00:10:12.240> ability<00:10:12.920> to<00:10:13.200> put<00:10:13.399> it

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into<00:10:14.640> words.<00:10:15.640> And<00:10:15.839> another<00:10:16.200> thing<00:10:16.440> that<00:10:16.680> people<00:10:17.079> say<00:10:17.720> is<00:10:18.000> that<00:10:18.560> although<00:10:19.480> listening<00:10:20.000> to<00:10:20.279> these<00:10:20.640> accounts<00:10:21.360> that<00:10:21.600> we

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might<00:10:22.880> tend<00:10:23.200> to<00:10:23.480> think<00:10:23.839> first<00:10:24.240> that<00:10:24.440> this<00:10:24.560> is<00:10:24.720> a<00:10:24.880> dreamlike<00:10:25.680> state,<00:10:26.360> that,<00:10:26.959> that<00:10:27.160> the<00:10:27.320> people<00:10:27.640> are<00:10:27.839> in<00:10:28.000> a,<00:10:28.600> a<00:10:29.040> sort,<00:10:29.320> sort<00:10:29.440> of<00:10:29.560> surrealistic<00:10:30.440> dreamlike

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state,<00:10:32.000> from<00:10:32.240> the<00:10:32.640> perspective<00:10:33.240> of<00:10:33.399> the<00:10:33.600> patient,<00:10:34.079> it's<00:10:34.399> quite<00:10:34.680> the<00:10:35.000> opposite,<00:10:36.000> that<00:10:36.360> they<00:10:36.560> tell<00:10:36.839> us<00:10:37.120> that<00:10:37.440> as<00:10:37.600> they<00:10:37.800> enter<00:10:38.120> into<00:10:38.519> this<00:10:39.440> state

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that<00:10:40.639> they<00:10:40.839> become<00:10:41.200> aware<00:10:41.720> that<00:10:42.440> this<00:10:42.639> is<00:10:42.920> the<00:10:43.760> dream,<00:10:44.760> and<00:10:45.000> that<00:10:45.399> very<00:10:45.800> rapidly<00:10:46.320> in<00:10:46.560> this<00:10:46.880> process,<00:10:47.839> people<00:10:48.399> begin<00:10:48.800> to

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withdraw<00:10:49.959> from<00:10:50.240> the<00:10:50.680> body,<00:10:51.680> um,<00:10:52.480> you<00:10:52.639> know,<00:10:53.000> it,<00:10:53.720> Americans<00:10:54.720> and<00:10:54.959> people<00:10:55.279> all<00:10:55.480> over<00:10:55.720> the<00:10:55.880> world<00:10:56.320> now,<00:10:57.000> when<00:10:57.320> they

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they<00:10:57.800> talk<00:10:58.079> about<00:10:58.560> this,<00:10:58.920> they,<00:10:59.320> they<00:10:59.480> tend<00:10:59.720> to<00:11:00.040> say,<00:11:01.040> um,<00:11:01.519> "I<00:11:01.720> got<00:11:02.000> out<00:11:02.240> of<00:11:02.519> my<00:11:02.839> body,"<00:11:03.720> okay,<00:11:03.880> is<00:11:04.079> the<00:11:04.240> way<00:11:04.399> we<00:11:04.600> naturally<00:11:05.160> put<00:11:05.360> it,<00:11:06.079> but

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I've<00:11:06.480> always<00:11:06.720> been<00:11:07.000> intrigued<00:11:07.639> by<00:11:07.800> the<00:11:08.000> fact<00:11:08.279> that,<00:11:08.720> uh,<00:11:09.160> for<00:11:09.360> example,<00:11:09.839> in<00:11:10.120> Plato's<00:11:10.880> writings<00:11:11.360> and<00:11:11.600> the<00:11:11.880> Phaedo,<00:11:12.880> which<00:11:13.000> is<00:11:13.200> the<00:11:13.399> great<00:11:13.760> dialogue<00:11:14.279> that

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Plato<00:11:14.880> wrote<00:11:15.200> about<00:11:15.519> the<00:11:15.920> afterlife,<00:11:16.920> and<00:11:17.480> Socrates<00:11:18.480> is<00:11:18.880> dying<00:11:19.360> in<00:11:19.600> this<00:11:19.839> dialogue,<00:11:20.240> it's<00:11:20.480> the<00:11:20.600> scene<00:11:20.920> of<00:11:21.120> his<00:11:22.839> execution,

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Socrates<00:11:24.286> says<00:11:24.732> not<00:11:25.179> that<00:11:25.626> I<00:11:26.073> got<00:11:26.519> out<00:11:26.966> of<00:11:27.413> my<00:11:27.860> body,<00:11:28.306> but<00:11:28.753> I<00:11:29.200> withdrew<00:11:29.646> from<00:11:30.093> my<00:11:30.540> body,<00:11:30.987> which,<00:11:31.433> as<00:11:31.880> I

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think<00:11:32.279> about<00:11:32.480> it,<00:11:32.600> if<00:11:32.720> you<00:11:32.839> think<00:11:33.040> about<00:11:33.240> it,<00:11:33.440> that<00:11:33.639> puts<00:11:33.839> it<00:11:34.079> the<00:11:34.240> other<00:11:34.440> way<00:11:34.720> around,<00:11:35.320> right?<00:11:35.600> Like<00:11:36.160> in<00:11:36.360> the<00:11:36.519> West,<00:11:36.880> we<00:11:37.000> say,<00:11:37.399> "I<00:11:37.600> got<00:11:37.880> out<00:11:38.120> of<00:11:38.399> my<00:11:38.839> body,"<00:11:39.839> which<00:11:40.399> the

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the<00:11:41.279> origin<00:11:41.760> point<00:11:42.040> is<00:11:42.279> the<00:11:42.440> body,<00:11:43.040> but<00:11:43.240> Socrates<00:11:43.959> in<00:11:44.240> his<00:11:44.560> description<00:11:45.120> of<00:11:45.399> this<00:11:45.639> says,<00:11:46.360> "I,"<00:11:46.600> it's<00:11:46.839> like<00:11:47.079> a<00:11:47.360> withdrawal<00:11:48.200> from<00:11:48.480> the<00:11:48.720> body,

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which<00:11:49.880> puts<00:11:50.399> the<00:11:51.240> the<00:11:51.880> locus<00:11:52.360> of<00:11:52.680> consciousness<00:11:53.399> or<00:11:53.680> the<00:11:53.839> self,<00:11:54.240> as<00:11:54.360> it<00:11:54.480> were,<00:11:54.760> in<00:11:55.000> the,<00:11:55.839> the,<00:11:56.040> not<00:11:56.240> in<00:11:56.399> the<00:11:56.639> body,<00:11:57.240> but,<00:11:57.600> but

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in<00:11:58.040> the<00:11:58.320> self,<00:11:59.760> um.<00:12:00.760> But<00:12:01.519> at,<00:12:01.720> at<00:12:01.839> any<00:12:02.160> rate,<00:12:03.000> um,<00:12:03.880> people<00:12:04.200> will<00:12:04.519> say,<00:12:05.040> as<00:12:05.160> you<00:12:05.279> will<00:12:05.440> hear<00:12:05.720> Eben<00:12:06.200> say

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tomorrow<00:12:06.959> night<00:12:07.240> about<00:12:07.560> his<00:12:07.880> experience,<00:12:08.839> that,<00:12:10.160> um,<00:12:11.160> that<00:12:11.279> you<00:12:11.480> enter<00:12:11.839> into<00:12:12.320> a<00:12:12.839> hyperreal<00:12:13.839> state.<00:12:14.560> I

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hear<00:12:15.000> people<00:12:15.399> all<00:12:15.600> over<00:12:15.839> the<00:12:16.000> world<00:12:16.279> say<00:12:16.639> that<00:12:17.360> this<00:12:17.639> was<00:12:18.079> more<00:12:18.639> real<00:12:19.320> than<00:12:20.880> real,<00:12:21.880> and<00:12:22.440> that<00:12:23.320> totally

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lying<00:12:24.839> beyond<00:12:25.560> words.<00:12:26.560> And<00:12:26.839> yet<00:12:27.920> worldwide,<00:12:28.920> um,<00:12:29.600> very<00:12:29.880> similar<00:12:30.360> descriptions.<00:12:31.120> People<00:12:31.440> say<00:12:31.839> that<00:12:32.399> they

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feel<00:12:32.920> that<00:12:33.120> they<00:12:33.279> go<00:12:33.480> through<00:12:33.720> a<00:12:34.160> tunnel<00:12:34.680> or<00:12:34.839> a<00:12:35.120> passageway<00:12:35.880> of<00:12:36.120> some<00:12:36.399> sort<00:12:37.399> and<00:12:37.600> come<00:12:37.839> out<00:12:38.160> on<00:12:38.360> the<00:12:38.519> other<00:12:38.880> side<00:12:39.199> into<00:12:39.600> this<00:12:39.920> incredibly<00:12:40.839> brilliant

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and<00:12:41.839> warm<00:12:42.360> and<00:12:43.000> comforting<00:12:44.000> light,<00:12:45.000> and<00:12:45.360> people<00:12:45.680> say<00:12:46.000> that<00:12:46.160> in<00:12:46.399> this<00:12:46.600> light,<00:12:46.959> they<00:12:47.240> experience<00:12:47.959> a<00:12:48.279> love<00:12:48.800> that<00:12:48.959> is<00:12:49.120> so<00:12:50.320> profound

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that<00:12:51.959> we<00:12:52.079> can<00:12:52.279> only<00:12:52.720> use<00:12:53.160> the<00:12:53.480> word<00:12:53.880> love<00:12:54.399> that<00:12:54.560> we<00:12:54.800> have<00:12:55.040> on<00:12:55.360> this<00:12:55.959> plane<00:12:57.040> analogously<00:12:58.040> with<00:12:58.320> that,<00:12:58.560> that<00:12:58.720> it's,<00:12:59.320> it's

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far<00:12:59.959> beyond<00:13:00.360> any<00:13:00.639> love<00:13:00.959> that<00:13:01.120> we<00:13:01.279> can<00:13:01.760> experience<00:13:02.760> while<00:13:02.959> we're<00:13:03.760> alive.<00:13:04.760> And<00:13:05.000> in<00:13:05.320> this<00:13:05.639> light,<00:13:06.639> tell<00:13:06.959> us<00:13:07.480> that,<00:13:09.399> um,

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um,<00:13:11.920> feelings<00:13:12.480> of<00:13:13.120> love,<00:13:14.120> comfort,<00:13:15.040> peace<00:13:15.760> that<00:13:15.920> are<00:13:16.320> beyond<00:13:17.240> description,<00:13:18.240> and<00:13:18.560> often<00:13:18.959> in

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that<00:13:19.480> light<00:13:20.320> also,<00:13:21.320> um,<00:13:21.920> tell<00:13:22.240> us<00:13:22.600> that<00:13:23.600> forms<00:13:24.199> or<00:13:24.560> spirits<00:13:25.279> of<00:13:25.680> loved<00:13:26.040> ones<00:13:26.519> that<00:13:26.760> they<00:13:27.040> had<00:13:27.680> while

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they<00:13:28.079> were<00:13:28.360> alive,<00:13:28.720> or<00:13:28.920> they,<00:13:29.160> they're<00:13:29.600> in<00:13:29.800> the<00:13:29.959> role<00:13:30.320> almost<00:13:30.720> of<00:13:30.880> a<00:13:31.040> greeting<00:13:31.560> committee<00:13:32.000> to<00:13:32.519> help<00:13:32.800> them<00:13:33.040> through<00:13:33.399> this<00:13:34.279> transition,<00:13:35.279> and<00:13:35.519> people<00:13:35.839> say<00:13:36.199> that

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in<00:13:36.639> this,<00:13:37.639> uh,<00:13:38.079> state,<00:13:39.079> if<00:13:39.279> for<00:13:39.560> example<00:13:40.079> you<00:13:40.240> see<00:13:40.639> your<00:13:41.600> grandfather,<00:13:42.600> that<00:13:43.079> the<00:13:43.519> person<00:13:43.920> you<00:13:44.120> meet<00:13:44.639> there

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in<00:13:45.160> that<00:13:45.440> light<00:13:46.000> as<00:13:46.199> your<00:13:46.560> deceased<00:13:47.639> grandfather<00:13:48.639> is<00:13:49.120> no<00:13:49.360> longer<00:13:49.800> limited<00:13:50.360> by<00:13:50.680> time.<00:13:51.199> You<00:13:51.320> don't<00:13:51.560> see<00:13:51.880> them<00:13:52.440> as<00:13:52.600> any<00:13:53.000> particular

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age,<00:13:54.920> but<00:13:55.199> rather<00:13:55.839> timeless,<00:13:56.839> and<00:13:57.000> not<00:13:57.160> in<00:13:57.360> a<00:13:57.680> physical<00:13:58.600> vehicle,<00:13:59.800> but<00:14:00.079> rather<00:14:00.720> in<00:14:00.959> some<00:14:01.160> sort<00:14:01.360> of<00:14:01.600> vehicle<00:14:02.160> which

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they<00:14:02.959> describe,<00:14:03.440> it<00:14:03.600> seems<00:14:03.920> to<00:14:04.120> have<00:14:04.240> a<00:14:04.639> geometry,<00:14:05.639> but<00:14:05.880> again<00:14:06.160> in<00:14:06.360> some<00:14:06.639> way<00:14:06.800> that<00:14:07.000> they<00:14:07.199> find<00:14:07.440> it<00:14:07.720> impossible<00:14:08.399> to<00:14:08.600> put<00:14:08.839> into<00:14:10.519> words.

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And<00:14:12.000> as<00:14:12.279> this<00:14:12.600> experience<00:14:13.720> progresses,<00:14:14.720> say<00:14:15.360> that,<00:14:16.000> um,<00:14:16.920> is<00:14:17.199> the<00:14:17.320> way<00:14:17.519> this<00:14:17.639> is<00:14:17.880> often<00:14:18.240> described<00:14:18.759> to<00:14:18.880> me,<00:14:19.199> that<00:14:19.399> people<00:14:19.720> say

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that<00:14:20.880> in<00:14:21.199> this<00:14:21.920> light,<00:14:22.920> that<00:14:23.240> suddenly<00:14:23.800> the<00:14:23.959> light<00:14:24.360> gets<00:14:24.800> even<00:14:25.160> brighter<00:14:25.759> and<00:14:26.160> everything<00:14:26.880> else<00:14:27.440> just<00:14:27.600> sort<00:14:27.839> of<00:14:28.120> disappears,<00:14:29.800> and

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they<00:14:30.279> find<00:14:30.959> themselves<00:14:31.680> in<00:14:33.079> this<00:14:34.079> environment<00:14:35.000> or<00:14:35.360> state<00:14:35.639> of<00:14:36.920> consciousness,<00:14:37.920> um,<00:14:38.920> sometimes

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I<00:14:39.399> think<00:14:39.639> of<00:14:39.839> it<00:14:40.079> almost<00:14:40.480> like<00:14:40.680> one<00:14:40.800> of<00:14:41.000> those<00:14:41.199> funhouse<00:14:41.920> mirrors<00:14:42.519> where<00:14:42.680> you<00:14:42.880> go<00:14:43.120> in<00:14:43.360> and<00:14:43.519> you<00:14:43.680> see<00:14:44.519> just<00:14:46.120> infinite<00:14:47.120> images<00:14:47.680> of

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yourself<00:14:48.600> going<00:14:49.160> off<00:14:49.440> into<00:14:50.240> eternity,<00:14:51.240> that<00:14:51.480> people<00:14:51.800> say<00:14:52.800> that<00:14:53.800> time<00:14:54.399> stands<00:14:55.639> still,<00:14:56.639> that

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they<00:14:57.346> are<00:14:57.892> no<00:14:58.437> longer<00:14:58.983> in<00:14:59.529> a<00:15:00.075> timeless<00:15:00.621> state,<00:15:01.167> and<00:15:01.712> that<00:15:02.258> they<00:15:02.804> are<00:15:03.350> surrounded<00:15:03.896> by<00:15:04.442> a<00:15:04.987> holographic,<00:15:05.533> full-color<00:15:06.079> panorama

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which<00:15:07.399> consists,<00:15:08.120> they<00:15:08.320> say,<00:15:08.720> of<00:15:09.079> every<00:15:09.519> single<00:15:10.160> action<00:15:10.639> that<00:15:10.839> they<00:15:11.000> have<00:15:11.240> ever<00:15:11.839> undertaken<00:15:12.560> in<00:15:12.759> their<00:15:13.800> lives.<00:15:14.800> But<00:15:15.240> in

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this<00:15:15.880> timeless<00:15:17.160> state,<00:15:18.160> when<00:15:18.480> you<00:15:18.680> see<00:15:19.199> each<00:15:19.680> action<00:15:20.079> of<00:15:20.279> your<00:15:20.560> life<00:15:20.959> portrayed<00:15:21.639> there,<00:15:22.399> suddenly<00:15:22.920> you<00:15:23.079> are<00:15:23.360> no<00:15:23.680> longer

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in<00:15:24.399> the<00:15:24.680> consciousness<00:15:25.560> that<00:15:25.759> you<00:15:26.079> had<00:15:26.800> when<00:15:27.040> you<00:15:27.560> performed<00:15:28.319> that<00:15:28.600> action,<00:15:29.519> rather<00:15:30.040> that<00:15:30.199> you<00:15:30.360> are<00:15:30.680> embodied,<00:15:31.680> embodied<00:15:32.319> in

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the<00:15:32.800> consciousness,<00:15:33.800> empathically<00:15:34.759> embodied<00:15:35.759> in<00:15:35.959> the<00:15:36.319> consciousness<00:15:37.319> of<00:15:37.519> the<00:15:37.759> person<00:15:38.199> with<00:15:38.399> whom<00:15:38.600> you<00:15:39.360> interacted.<00:15:40.360> Hence,<00:15:41.120> if

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you<00:15:41.480> see<00:15:41.839> yourself<00:15:42.360> doing<00:15:43.079> something<00:15:43.560> unkind<00:15:44.440> to<00:15:44.800> somebody<00:15:45.319> else,<00:15:45.920> as<00:15:46.120> we<00:15:46.319> all<00:15:46.759> have,<00:15:47.759> then<00:15:48.120> when<00:15:48.360> that<00:15:48.639> action<00:15:49.079> has<00:15:49.319> its

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result,<00:15:50.600> you're<00:15:51.079> empathically<00:15:51.959> feeling<00:15:52.680> that<00:15:53.399> from<00:15:53.600> the<00:15:53.800> point<00:15:54.000> of<00:15:54.160> view<00:15:54.319> of<00:15:54.480> the<00:15:54.680> person<00:15:55.360> with<00:15:55.600> whom<00:15:55.880> you,<00:15:56.839> um,<00:15:57.839> interacted.

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So<00:15:58.680> if<00:15:59.000> you<00:15:59.120> see<00:15:59.319> yourself<00:16:00.000> doing<00:16:00.360> something<00:16:00.920> unkind,<00:16:01.920> then<00:16:02.079> you<00:16:02.199> feel<00:16:02.639> the<00:16:02.839> sadness<00:16:03.399> you<00:16:03.600> brought<00:16:03.920> about,<00:16:04.759> or<00:16:05.680> if<00:16:05.920> you,<00:16:06.800> um,

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good<00:16:16.360> feelings<00:16:16.920> that<00:16:17.040> you<00:16:17.240> brought<00:16:17.800> about.<00:16:18.800> Very<00:16:19.079> often,<00:16:19.519> people<00:16:19.839> say<00:16:20.319> that<00:16:21.199> they,<00:16:21.680> um,<00:16:22.319> review<00:16:22.839> this<00:16:24.160> panorama

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right,<00:21:26.640> and,<00:21:27.120> um,<00:21:27.760> that's<00:21:28.000> one<00:21:28.159> thing<00:21:28.360> I<00:21:28.679> learned.<00:21:29.200> But<00:21:29.400> another<00:21:29.760> thing<00:21:29.960> I<00:21:30.120> learned<00:21:30.640> was<00:21:31.000> that<00:21:31.880> everybody<00:21:32.640> seems<00:21:33.039> to<00:21:33.200> be<00:21:33.480> chasing<00:21:34.400> something.

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That<00:21:35.559> was<00:21:35.760> so<00:21:36.039> startling<00:21:36.720> to<00:21:36.919> me<00:21:37.360> when<00:21:37.559> I<00:21:37.720> began<00:21:38.279> to,<00:21:39.559> um,<00:21:40.559> uh,<00:21:40.720> do<00:21:41.039> psychotherapy<00:21:42.039> work,<00:21:42.440> for<00:21:42.679> example,<00:21:43.120> and<00:21:43.279> I<00:21:43.400> told

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my<00:21:44.400> supervisor,<00:21:45.400> John<00:21:45.760> Buckman,<00:21:46.320> that,<00:21:46.480> "It<00:21:46.640> just<00:21:46.919> is<00:21:47.200> like<00:21:47.480> amazing<00:21:47.919> to<00:21:48.080> me<00:21:48.240> that<00:21:48.480> everybody's<00:21:49.480> chasing<00:21:50.279> something,"<00:21:51.279> because<00:21:51.799> honestly,

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in<00:21:52.679> my<00:21:52.960> ignorance,<00:21:53.640> I<00:21:53.840> honestly<00:21:54.360> thought<00:21:54.600> I<00:21:54.720> wasn't<00:21:55.120> chasing<00:21:56.000> anything,<00:21:57.000> and<00:21:57.120> I<00:21:57.240> thought<00:21:57.520> some<00:21:57.760> people<00:21:58.039> chase<00:21:58.679> power,<00:21:59.520> so<00:21:59.840> which<00:22:00.080> I<00:22:00.240> could<00:22:00.640> tell

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was<00:22:01.120> such<00:22:01.279> an<00:22:01.520> illusion,<00:22:01.960> or<00:22:02.200> some<00:22:02.400> people<00:22:02.760> chased<00:22:03.760> fame,<00:22:04.760> which<00:22:04.880> is<00:22:05.080> so<00:22:05.640> not<00:22:05.880> just<00:22:06.080> an<00:22:06.320> illusion<00:22:06.840> but<00:22:07.000> a<00:22:07.240> scary<00:22:08.159> illusion,<00:22:09.159> um.

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And<00:22:10.241> some<00:22:10.683> people<00:22:11.125> chased<00:22:11.568> money,<00:22:12.010> which<00:22:12.452> I<00:22:12.894> wish<00:22:13.336> I'd<00:22:13.778> chased<00:22:14.221> more<00:22:14.663> money<00:22:15.105> now,<00:22:15.547> I<00:22:15.989> will<00:22:16.431> say,<00:22:16.874> having<00:22:17.316> two<00:22:17.758> kids,<00:22:18.200> you

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know,<00:22:18.653> at<00:22:18.987> this<00:22:19.320> age.<00:22:19.653> But<00:22:19.987> I<00:22:20.320> never<00:22:20.653> did<00:22:20.987> chase<00:22:21.320> money—not<00:22:21.653> that<00:22:21.987> I<00:22:22.320> disdained<00:22:22.653> it,<00:22:22.987> but<00:22:23.320> I<00:22:23.653> just<00:22:23.987> found<00:22:24.320> my<00:22:24.653> work<00:22:24.987> was<00:22:25.320> more<00:22:25.653> interesting<00:22:25.987> than<00:22:26.320> money.

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But,<00:22:27.799> um,<00:22:28.559> I<00:22:28.640> was<00:22:28.760> sort<00:22:28.919> of<00:22:29.039> going<00:22:29.320> on<00:22:29.640> like<00:22:29.919> this<00:22:30.080> to<00:22:30.400> John,<00:22:31.400> and<00:22:31.559> he<00:22:31.720> looked<00:22:32.000> at<00:22:32.120> me<00:22:32.279> and<00:22:32.400> he<00:22:32.520> said,<00:22:33.120> "Raymond,<00:22:33.600> how<00:22:33.799> old<00:22:34.039> were<00:22:34.240> you<00:22:34.480> when<00:22:34.679> I<00:22:35.240> you<00:22:35.440> finished

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your<00:22:36.080> second<00:22:36.600> doctoral<00:22:37.200> degree?"<00:22:38.080> And<00:22:38.240> I<00:22:38.360> said,<00:22:38.720> "30."<00:22:39.640> And<00:22:39.760> he<00:22:39.919> said,<00:22:40.320> "Well,"<00:22:40.720> and<00:22:40.840> I<00:22:41.000> realized<00:22:41.480> at<00:22:41.640> that<00:22:41.840> point,<00:22:42.200> yeah,<00:22:42.480> I<00:22:42.600> was<00:22:42.880> chasing<00:22:43.559> knowledge,<00:22:44.559> right?

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And<00:22:45.720> and<00:22:45.960> still<00:22:46.520> am.<00:22:47.520> But,<00:22:48.279> um,<00:22:49.279> what<00:22:49.440> it<00:22:49.559> was<00:22:49.679> so<00:22:49.960> startling<00:22:50.520> to<00:22:50.720> me<00:22:51.159> when<00:22:51.320> I<00:22:51.559> began<00:22:51.880> to<00:22:52.200> hear<00:22:52.600> all<00:22:52.840> these<00:22:53.159> patients<00:22:53.600> who

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were<00:22:54.000> chasing<00:22:54.880> things,<00:22:55.880> and<00:22:56.039> then<00:22:56.200> I<00:22:56.360> got<00:22:56.520> to<00:22:56.799> reflecting<00:22:57.440> on<00:22:57.679> all<00:22:57.919> the<00:22:58.760> people<00:22:59.080> with<00:22:59.240> near-death<00:22:59.919> experiences<00:23:00.880> that<00:23:01.159> I<00:23:01.440> had<00:23:02.559> interviewed.

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And<00:23:03.925> what<00:23:04.290> I<00:23:04.655> saw<00:23:05.021> was<00:23:05.387> that,<00:23:05.752> um,<00:23:06.117> whatever<00:23:06.483> they<00:23:06.849> had<00:23:07.214> been<00:23:07.579> chasing—um,<00:23:07.945> money<00:23:08.311> or<00:23:08.676> power<00:23:09.041> or<00:23:09.407> fame<00:23:09.773> or<00:23:10.138> any<00:23:10.503> of<00:23:10.869> these<00:23:11.235> other<00:23:11.600> things—

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that<00:23:12.679> when<00:23:12.880> they<00:23:13.120> came<00:23:13.440> back<00:23:13.720> from<00:23:14.200> this<00:23:15.799> experience,<00:23:16.799> that<00:23:17.240> what<00:23:17.520> they<00:23:17.760> all<00:23:18.200> said<00:23:18.679> unanimously<00:23:19.640> was<00:23:19.880> that<00:23:20.279> what<00:23:20.679> this

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life<00:23:21.360> is<00:23:21.559> all<00:23:21.960> about<00:23:22.960> is<00:23:23.480> primarily,<00:23:24.360> first<00:23:24.679> and<00:23:25.159> foremost,<00:23:26.159> to<00:23:26.440> learn<00:23:26.880> to<00:23:27.200> love,<00:23:28.159> because<00:23:28.640> that's<00:23:28.880> what<00:23:29.240> everybody

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saw<00:23:30.039> in<00:23:30.279> the<00:23:30.799> this<00:23:31.360> panorama,<00:23:32.360> that<00:23:32.600> the<00:23:32.760> things<00:23:33.039> that<00:23:33.159> were<00:23:33.360> more<00:23:33.760> satisfying,<00:23:34.520> most<00:23:34.840> satisfying<00:23:35.640> about<00:23:36.000> this<00:23:36.279> life,<00:23:37.120> was<00:23:37.440> the<00:23:37.679> instances<00:23:38.400> in

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which<00:23:38.919> they<00:23:39.120> had<00:23:39.320> been,<00:23:40.159> uh,<00:23:41.159> learning<00:23:41.600> to<00:23:42.679> love,<00:23:43.679> and,<00:23:44.159> um,<00:23:45.880> then<00:23:46.880> secondly,

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and<00:23:47.720> almost<00:23:48.159> like<00:23:48.400> as<00:23:48.559> a<00:23:48.720> little<00:23:49.000> grace<00:23:49.679> note,<00:23:50.679> that<00:23:51.559> people<00:23:51.840> would<00:23:52.120> also<00:23:52.640> mention<00:23:53.200> that<00:23:53.640> in<00:23:53.880> this<00:23:54.400> panorama<00:23:55.400> where<00:23:55.640> there

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would<00:23:56.000> be<00:23:56.200> scenes<00:23:56.760> in<00:23:57.039> which<00:23:57.320> they<00:23:57.440> had<00:23:57.600> been<00:23:57.760> learning<00:23:58.600> something,<00:23:59.600> that<00:23:59.880> this<00:24:00.480> presence<00:24:01.080> they<00:24:01.200> were<00:24:01.400> in<00:24:01.679> would<00:24:01.880> sort<00:24:02.080> of<00:24:02.320> focus<00:24:02.760> in<00:24:03.039> on<00:24:03.440> these<00:24:03.919> things

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in<00:24:05.269> a<00:24:05.618> positive<00:24:05.968> way.<00:24:06.317> And,<00:24:06.667> um,<00:24:07.017> one<00:24:07.366> thought<00:24:07.716> that<00:24:08.065> often<00:24:08.415> came<00:24:08.765> out<00:24:09.114> of<00:24:09.464> this—all<00:24:09.814> none<00:24:10.163> of<00:24:10.513> this<00:24:10.862> was<00:24:11.212> in<00:24:11.562> words,<00:24:11.911> but<00:24:12.261> then<00:24:12.610> later<00:24:12.960> people

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would<00:24:13.606> try<00:24:14.011> to<00:24:14.417> put<00:24:14.823> it<00:24:15.229> into<00:24:15.634> words—was<00:24:16.040> that,<00:24:16.446> in<00:24:16.851> effect,<00:24:17.257> they<00:24:17.663> they<00:24:18.069> felt<00:24:18.474> that<00:24:18.880> this<00:24:19.286> presence<00:24:19.691> was<00:24:20.097> to<00:24:20.503> try<00:24:20.909> to<00:24:21.314> translate<00:24:21.720> it,

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saying<00:24:22.919> something<00:24:23.360> like,<00:24:23.919> "Even<00:24:24.360> when<00:24:24.640> you<00:24:25.760> die,<00:24:26.760> this<00:24:27.360> process<00:24:27.799> of<00:24:27.960> learning<00:24:28.640> goes<00:24:29.480> on,"<00:24:30.480> and

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and<00:24:31.000> this,<00:24:31.360> uh,<00:24:31.480> George<00:24:31.840> Richie<00:24:32.399> that<00:24:32.520> I<00:24:32.960> mentioned,<00:24:33.960> uh,<00:24:34.120> said<00:24:34.360> to<00:24:34.520> me<00:24:34.720> one<00:24:34.880> time,<00:24:35.080> he<00:24:35.200> said,<00:24:35.480> "Raymond,<00:24:35.919> I<00:24:36.120> gather<00:24:36.520> from<00:24:36.760> my<00:24:37.039> experience,"<00:24:37.760> he<00:24:37.960> said,<00:24:38.320> "that<00:24:38.640> this,<00:24:39.480> the

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quest<00:24:40.039> for<00:24:40.360> knowledge<00:24:41.000> goes<00:24:41.320> on,<00:24:41.840> quite<00:24:42.200> literally,"<00:24:42.880> he<00:24:43.000> said,<00:24:43.279> "for<00:24:43.760> eternity,<00:24:44.760> that<00:24:44.919> it<00:24:45.120> never<00:24:45.600> stops,"<00:24:46.480> which<00:24:46.640> is<00:24:47.440> very<00:24:47.799> satisfying

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to<00:24:48.640> me<00:24:49.799> personally,<00:24:51.600> um.<00:24:52.960> And<00:24:54.279> so,<00:24:56.399> another<00:24:57.399> difficulty

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alive<00:25:06.480> is<00:25:06.640> to<00:25:06.799> learn<00:25:07.120> to<00:25:07.399> love,<00:25:08.399> but<00:25:08.559> it<00:25:08.880> doesn't<00:25:09.360> make<00:25:09.559> it<00:25:09.760> any<00:25:10.320> easier.<00:25:11.320> As<00:25:11.440> I<00:25:11.679> like<00:25:11.919> to<00:25:12.159> say,<00:25:12.760> you<00:25:12.880> know,<00:25:13.120> it's<00:25:13.440> as<00:25:13.679> George<00:25:14.000> Richie<00:25:14.480> once

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said<00:25:15.000> to<00:25:15.120> me<00:25:15.360> in,<00:25:15.840> in<00:25:15.960> a<00:25:16.159> very<00:25:16.480> oblique<00:25:17.279> way,<00:25:17.720> he<00:25:17.880> said,<00:25:18.799> "This<00:25:19.159> experience<00:25:19.880> makes<00:25:20.159> your<00:25:20.559> humanity<00:25:21.320> even<00:25:21.640> more<00:25:21.919> of<00:25:22.039> a<00:25:22.360> burden<00:25:22.760> in

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a<00:25:23.200> way."<00:25:24.200> And<00:25:24.480> to<00:25:24.799> translate<00:25:25.360> it<00:25:25.559> crudely,<00:25:26.200> what<00:25:26.360> George<00:25:26.799> was<00:25:27.000> saying<00:25:27.440> was<00:25:28.440> that,<00:25:28.640> "Let's<00:25:28.960> face<00:25:29.240> it,<00:25:29.520> it's<00:25:29.760> very<00:25:30.360> difficult<00:25:30.600> to<00:25:30.760> get<00:25:31.000> through

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the<00:25:31.480> average<00:25:31.960> day<00:25:32.320> without<00:25:32.720> wanting<00:25:33.120> to<00:25:33.399> choke<00:25:33.960> at<00:25:34.120> least<00:25:34.520> one<00:25:35.480> person,"<00:25:36.480> and<00:25:36.679> that's<00:25:36.960> the<00:25:37.440> reality<00:25:38.440> of<00:25:38.600> our<00:25:38.919> human<00:25:39.840> lives.

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And<00:25:41.240> people<00:25:41.520> will<00:25:42.039> say<00:25:43.039> that<00:25:43.720> this<00:25:44.600> continues,<00:25:45.600> that<00:25:45.799> even<00:25:46.120> after<00:25:46.360> you<00:25:46.559> have<00:25:46.799> this<00:25:47.039> vision,<00:25:47.720> you<00:25:47.960> still<00:25:48.640> find<00:25:48.960> yourself

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you<00:25:50.039> know,<00:25:50.919> flying<00:25:51.399> off<00:25:51.600> the<00:25:51.760> handle<00:25:52.120> at<00:25:52.360> people<00:25:52.640> and<00:25:52.880> regretting<00:25:53.440> it,<00:25:54.240> but<00:25:54.520> that<00:25:55.039> this<00:25:56.039> awareness<00:25:56.799> that<00:25:57.000> they<00:25:57.240> have,<00:25:57.520> that<00:25:57.720> life<00:25:57.960> is

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sort<00:25:58.600> of<00:25:58.880> quest,<00:25:59.600> and<00:25:59.799> that<00:26:00.000> we<00:26:00.200> go<00:26:00.520> through<00:26:01.240> these<00:26:01.480> learning<00:26:02.520> experiences,<00:26:03.520> and<00:26:03.760> of<00:26:03.919> course<00:26:04.240> they<00:26:04.440> come<00:26:04.720> back<00:26:05.000> from<00:26:05.320> this<00:26:06.480> saying,

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um,<00:26:08.880> that<00:26:09.279> they<00:26:09.480> have<00:26:09.679> no<00:26:09.880> more<00:26:10.120> fear<00:26:10.440> of<00:26:10.720> death<00:26:11.159> because<00:26:11.480> they<00:26:11.640> learned<00:26:12.080> from<00:26:12.320> their<00:26:12.640> experience<00:26:13.600> that<00:26:14.320> what<00:26:14.480> we<00:26:14.720> call<00:26:15.200> death<00:26:15.640> is<00:26:15.880> simply

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a<00:26:16.600> transition<00:26:17.399> into<00:26:17.799> some<00:26:18.120> other<00:26:18.840> realm<00:26:19.279> of<00:26:21.039> existence.<00:26:22.080> Now,<00:26:23.080> again,<00:26:23.559> like<00:26:23.679> I<00:26:23.840> said,<00:26:24.559> you've

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all<00:26:25.039> heard<00:26:25.360> the<00:26:25.600> story,<00:26:26.000> I'm<00:26:26.159> sure.<00:26:26.480> I<00:26:26.559> mean,<00:26:26.760> it's<00:26:27.039> become<00:26:27.440> now<00:26:27.720> a<00:26:28.440> part<00:26:28.640> of<00:26:28.799> our<00:26:29.240> ethos,<00:26:30.240> and<00:26:30.440> these<00:26:30.679> near-death<00:26:31.279> experiences,<00:26:32.039> where<00:26:32.279> they<00:26:32.440> were<00:26:33.039> essentially

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the<00:26:51.559> very<00:26:51.880> real<00:26:52.520> question<00:26:53.000> arises<00:26:53.799> with<00:26:54.080> these<00:26:54.480> things<00:26:54.960> is,<00:26:55.559> um,<00:26:56.559> can<00:26:56.880> we<00:26:57.159> use<00:26:57.559> this<00:26:57.720> to<00:26:57.919> give<00:26:58.320> is<00:26:58.600> a<00:26:58.919> rational<00:26:59.520> proof

00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:08.159
of<00:26:59.919> an<00:27:01.159> afterlife?<00:27:02.159> And,<00:27:03.200> um,<00:27:04.200> and<00:27:04.399> that<00:27:04.640> I<00:27:04.760> think<00:27:04.919> is<00:27:05.080> a<00:27:05.279> very<00:27:05.559> important<00:27:06.440> question.<00:27:07.440> If<00:27:07.600> we<00:27:07.840> really

00:27:08.159 --> 00:27:16.399
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00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:43.399
come<00:27:34.919> to<00:27:35.120> me<00:27:35.440> who've,<00:27:36.919> um,<00:27:37.919> been<00:27:38.200> on<00:27:38.360> a<00:27:38.559> mission<00:27:38.919> to<00:27:39.159> try<00:27:39.360> to<00:27:39.600> improve<00:27:40.200> the<00:27:40.720> world<00:27:41.600> with<00:27:41.919> these<00:27:42.279> things,<00:27:43.000> and

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uh,<00:27:43.760> the<00:27:43.880> first<00:27:44.320> being<00:27:44.600> this<00:27:44.799> wonderful<00:27:45.279> man<00:27:45.559> named<00:27:45.880> Jim<00:27:46.240> McDonald<00:27:47.080> of<00:27:47.360> McDonnell<00:27:48.360> Douglas<00:27:49.039> aircraft,<00:27:50.039> and<00:27:51.000> Jim,<00:27:51.519> uh,

00:27:51.679 --> 00:28:00.600
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um,<00:28:09.760> number<00:28:10.159> one,<00:28:11.159> it's<00:28:11.360> a<00:28:11.559> delusion<00:28:12.200> to<00:28:12.399> think<00:28:12.679> that<00:28:12.840> the<00:28:13.080> question<00:28:13.399> of<00:28:13.559> an<00:28:13.799> afterlife<00:28:14.440> is<00:28:14.640> a<00:28:14.919> scientific<00:28:16.240> question,<00:28:17.240> um.

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The<00:28:17.720> West<00:28:18.080> is<00:28:18.320> full<00:28:18.600> of<00:28:18.840> this<00:28:19.120> doctrine<00:28:19.559> of<00:28:19.880> scientism,<00:28:20.880> which<00:28:21.080> holds<00:28:21.600> that<00:28:22.159> the<00:28:22.360> only<00:28:22.840> rational<00:28:23.399> way<00:28:23.600> of<00:28:23.799> solving<00:28:24.399> questions<00:28:25.000> is<00:28:25.279> through<00:28:26.080> the

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rational<00:28:27.000> is<00:28:27.200> through<00:28:27.440> the<00:28:27.640> scientific<00:28:28.240> ific<00:28:28.519> method<00:28:28.799> of<00:28:29.320> inquiry,<00:28:30.320> and<00:28:30.519> that<00:28:30.640> is<00:28:30.760> a<00:28:31.640> fallacy,<00:28:32.679> um.<00:28:33.679> And<00:28:33.880> by<00:28:34.039> the<00:28:34.159> way,<00:28:34.360> I

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00:28:42.919 --> 00:28:51.679
a<00:28:43.480> is<00:28:43.600> a<00:28:43.840> doctrine<00:28:44.600> that,<00:28:45.399> as<00:28:45.519> I<00:28:45.679> said,<00:28:46.000> the<00:28:46.200> only<00:28:46.720> rational<00:28:47.279> way<00:28:47.519> of,<00:28:48.519> of<00:28:48.880> establishing<00:28:49.679> knowledge<00:28:50.159> is<00:28:50.360> through<00:28:50.640> the<00:28:50.919> scientific

00:28:51.679 --> 00:28:59.960
method.<00:28:52.106> But<00:28:52.534> I<00:28:52.961> used<00:28:53.388> to<00:28:53.816> teach<00:28:54.243> epistemology,<00:28:54.671> or<00:28:55.098> theory<00:28:55.525> of<00:28:55.953> knowledge,<00:28:56.380> when<00:28:56.807> I<00:28:57.235> was<00:28:57.662> a<00:28:58.090> philosophy<00:28:58.517> professor,<00:28:58.944> and<00:28:59.372> in<00:28:59.799> the

00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:08.360
first<00:29:00.320> couple<00:29:00.559> of<00:29:00.760> days<00:29:01.000> of<00:29:01.279> class,<00:29:01.640> I<00:29:01.720> would<00:29:02.000> ask<00:29:02.279> my<00:29:02.440> students,<00:29:03.000> like,<00:29:03.279> "Well,<00:29:03.760> what<00:29:03.880> do<00:29:04.039> you<00:29:04.200> think<00:29:04.519> knowledge<00:29:05.200> is?"<00:29:06.200> And<00:29:07.080> I<00:29:07.320> quickly<00:29:07.640> learned<00:29:08.000> from

00:29:08.360 --> 00:29:16.720
experience<00:29:09.039> that<00:29:09.200> in<00:29:09.440> that<00:29:10.480> circumstance,<00:29:11.480> um,<00:29:11.799> what<00:29:12.000> the<00:29:12.159> kids<00:29:12.519> come<00:29:12.799> up<00:29:13.120> with<00:29:13.399> is<00:29:13.600> that<00:29:13.880> knowledge<00:29:14.440> is<00:29:15.200> science,<00:29:16.200> right?<00:29:16.519> And

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so,<00:29:17.720> and<00:29:18.000> so<00:29:18.279> I<00:29:18.399> would<00:29:18.720> get<00:29:18.960> them<00:29:19.120> to<00:29:19.360> talk<00:29:19.640> for<00:29:19.840> a<00:29:20.000> while,<00:29:20.240> and<00:29:20.440> then<00:29:20.840> what<00:29:21.000> they'd<00:29:21.320> eventually<00:29:21.760> say<00:29:22.200> is<00:29:22.440> that<00:29:23.039> the<00:29:23.200> only<00:29:23.679> rational<00:29:24.240> means<00:29:24.679> of,<00:29:25.519> of

00:29:25.960 --> 00:29:34.360
establishing<00:29:26.760> knowledge<00:29:27.200> is<00:29:27.399> through<00:29:27.600> the<00:29:27.760> science<00:29:28.080> scientific<00:29:28.640> method.<00:29:29.519> So<00:29:30.159> I<00:29:30.240> would<00:29:30.519> put<00:29:30.799> that<00:29:31.120> statement<00:29:31.559> up<00:29:31.760> on<00:29:31.919> the<00:29:32.080> board:<00:29:32.519> "Scientific<00:29:33.240> method<00:29:33.559> is<00:29:33.799> the<00:29:33.960> only

00:29:34.360 --> 00:29:42.559
rational<00:29:34.799> means<00:29:35.159> of<00:29:35.440> establishing<00:29:36.360> knowledge."<00:29:37.360> And<00:29:37.519> then<00:29:37.679> I<00:29:37.799> would<00:29:38.000> say,<00:29:38.320> "Well,<00:29:38.480> is<00:29:38.640> that<00:29:38.880> what<00:29:39.039> you<00:29:39.279> think?"<00:29:40.080> And<00:29:40.960> then<00:29:41.120> the<00:29:41.279> kids<00:29:41.519> would<00:29:41.679> say,<00:29:42.000> "Yeah,<00:29:42.240> that's<00:29:42.440> what

00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:51.640
I<00:29:42.760> think."<00:29:43.360> So<00:29:43.640> then<00:29:43.799> I<00:29:43.880> would<00:29:44.159> draw<00:29:44.559> a<00:29:45.440> rectangle<00:29:46.240> around<00:29:46.799> that<00:29:47.480> statement,<00:29:48.480> and<00:29:48.640> I<00:29:48.720> would<00:29:48.919> say,<00:29:49.200> "Well,<00:29:49.399> how<00:29:49.519> do<00:29:49.679> you<00:29:49.840> know<00:29:50.440> that?"<00:29:51.440> Now,

00:29:51.640 --> 00:30:00.840
if<00:29:51.971> you<00:29:52.302> think<00:29:52.633> about<00:29:52.965> it<00:29:53.296> for<00:29:53.627> a<00:29:53.958> minute,<00:29:54.289> they<00:29:54.620> have<00:29:54.952> only<00:29:55.283> two<00:29:55.614> options.<00:29:55.945> Number<00:29:56.276> one,<00:29:56.607> they<00:29:56.939> say—they<00:29:57.270> could<00:29:57.601> say,<00:29:57.932> "I<00:29:58.263> know<00:29:58.594> it<00:29:58.926> by<00:29:59.257> the<00:29:59.588> scientific<00:29:59.919> method,"

00:30:00.840 --> 00:30:09.080
but<00:30:01.080> that's<00:30:01.320> the<00:30:01.559> fallacy<00:30:02.159> called<00:30:02.519> reasoning<00:30:03.120> in<00:30:03.279> a<00:30:03.519> circle,<00:30:04.240> where<00:30:04.440> you<00:30:04.640> just<00:30:04.919> assume<00:30:05.399> what<00:30:05.519> you<00:30:05.720> said<00:30:06.000> out<00:30:06.200> to<00:30:06.440> prove.<00:30:07.360> But<00:30:07.519> then,<00:30:07.720> if<00:30:07.880> they<00:30:08.039> said,<00:30:08.320> on<00:30:08.480> the<00:30:08.640> other<00:30:08.840> hand,

00:30:09.080 --> 00:30:18.480
that,<00:30:09.240> "Well,<00:30:09.360> I<00:30:09.480> know<00:30:09.679> it<00:30:09.880> through<00:30:10.360> philosophy<00:30:11.360> or<00:30:11.640> literary<00:30:12.320> theory<00:30:12.720> or<00:30:13.279> history,"<00:30:14.279> then<00:30:14.519> that's<00:30:14.720> a<00:30:15.279> self-contradiction,<00:30:16.279> because<00:30:16.600> to<00:30:16.840> say<00:30:17.720> scientific

00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:28.399
method<00:30:18.840> is<00:30:19.000> the<00:30:19.159> only<00:30:19.519> rational<00:30:19.960> means<00:30:20.279> of<00:30:20.480> knowing<00:30:20.919> things,<00:30:21.240> and<00:30:21.440> I<00:30:21.559> know<00:30:21.840> that<00:30:22.200> by<00:30:22.720> philosophy,<00:30:23.559> or<00:30:24.559> you<00:30:24.720> know,<00:30:24.960> is<00:30:25.360> self-contradictory.<00:30:26.960> So

00:30:28.399 --> 00:30:36.720
science<00:30:28.880> is<00:30:29.120> one<00:30:29.440> thing<00:30:29.720> and<00:30:30.000> scientism<00:30:30.919> is<00:30:31.120> another<00:30:31.720> thing,<00:30:32.720> and,<00:30:33.159> um,<00:30:35.360> so<00:30:36.360> it's<00:30:36.559> been

00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:45.000
a<00:30:36.880> very<00:30:37.159> long<00:30:37.480> struggle<00:30:37.919> for<00:30:38.080> me<00:30:38.240> to<00:30:38.440> come<00:30:38.640> to<00:30:38.880> terms<00:30:39.360> with<00:30:39.559> the<00:30:39.919> idea<00:30:40.679> that,<00:30:41.159> uh,<00:30:41.840> maybe<00:30:42.320> we<00:30:42.559> can<00:30:42.919> know<00:30:43.279> by<00:30:43.600> rational<00:30:44.159> means<00:30:44.640> that<00:30:44.799> there's

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:53.440
an<00:30:45.760> afterlife,<00:30:46.760> but<00:30:47.399> not<00:30:47.679> it,<00:30:48.200> not<00:30:48.799> it's<00:30:49.039> not<00:30:49.240> going<00:30:49.399> to<00:30:49.600> be<00:30:50.000> science<00:30:51.000> at<00:30:51.279> first<00:30:52.000> that<00:30:52.200> brings<00:30:52.559> us<00:30:52.799> to<00:30:53.080> this.

00:30:53.440 --> 00:31:02.679
I<00:30:53.559> think<00:30:53.799> it<00:30:53.960> would<00:30:54.200> be<00:30:55.120> philosophical<00:30:56.760> inquiry,<00:30:57.760> and,<00:30:58.000> and<00:30:58.159> the<00:30:58.279> way<00:30:58.559> this<00:30:58.760> has<00:30:58.960> been<00:30:59.799> handled<00:31:00.799> in<00:31:01.279> philosophy<00:31:02.279> since

00:31:02.679 --> 00:31:11.679
the<00:31:02.880> time<00:31:03.080> of<00:31:03.279> the<00:31:03.440> Greeks<00:31:04.120> is<00:31:04.360> the<00:31:04.559> same<00:31:04.880> way<00:31:05.080> we<00:31:05.240> do<00:31:05.440> it<00:31:06.639> today.<00:31:07.639> There<00:31:07.760> are<00:31:07.919> some<00:31:08.200> people<00:31:08.440> who<00:31:08.679> look<00:31:08.880> at<00:31:09.200> these,<00:31:10.200> um,<00:31:11.120> these

00:31:11.679 --> 00:31:20.200
experiences,<00:31:12.600> and<00:31:12.840> they<00:31:13.120> take<00:31:13.320> them<00:31:13.519> at<00:31:13.720> face<00:31:14.159> value<00:31:14.480> and<00:31:14.639> say,<00:31:15.000> "Yeah,<00:31:15.240> this<00:31:15.360> is<00:31:15.639> evidence<00:31:16.080> of<00:31:16.279> an<00:31:16.519> afterlife,"<00:31:17.480> and<00:31:17.840> Plato<00:31:18.840> would<00:31:19.080> be<00:31:19.240> in<00:31:19.440> that<00:31:19.720> category.

00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:29.200
He<00:31:20.360> took<00:31:20.600> this<00:31:21.080> seriously.<00:31:22.200> Meanwhile,<00:31:23.200> his<00:31:23.679> contemporary<00:31:24.960> Democritus<00:31:25.960> was<00:31:26.200> the<00:31:26.360> founder<00:31:26.840> of<00:31:27.039> the<00:31:27.279> scientific<00:31:28.200> method

00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:37.760
I'm<00:31:29.692> sorry,<00:31:30.183> of<00:31:30.675> the—Democritus<00:31:31.167> was<00:31:31.659> the<00:31:32.150> founder<00:31:32.642> of<00:31:33.134> the<00:31:33.625> atomic<00:31:34.117> theory<00:31:34.609> of<00:31:35.100> matter.<00:31:35.592> Democritus<00:31:36.084> had<00:31:36.576> just<00:31:37.067> reasoned<00:31:37.559> it

00:31:37.760 --> 00:31:46.480
out<00:31:38.559> that,<00:31:38.840> contrary<00:31:39.399> to<00:31:39.600> our<00:31:39.840> sense<00:31:40.399> perception<00:31:41.039> that<00:31:41.200> tells<00:31:41.519> us,<00:31:41.720> for<00:31:41.960> example,<00:31:42.519> that<00:31:42.760> this<00:31:43.480> stage<00:31:44.120> right<00:31:44.279> here<00:31:44.440> is<00:31:44.600> a<00:31:44.880> solid<00:31:45.440> object,<00:31:46.279> which

00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:55.039
is,<00:31:46.888> I'm<00:31:47.296> sitting<00:31:47.704> on<00:31:48.112> it,<00:31:48.520> and<00:31:48.928> that<00:31:49.336> assumption—but,<00:31:49.744> um,<00:31:50.152> it<00:31:50.559> looks<00:31:50.967> as<00:31:51.375> though<00:31:51.783> it's<00:31:52.191> a<00:31:52.599> continuum<00:31:53.007> with<00:31:53.415> no<00:31:53.823> breaks<00:31:54.231> to<00:31:54.639> it,

00:31:55.039 --> 00:32:03.639
right,<00:31:55.431> but<00:31:55.824> Democritus<00:31:56.216> just<00:31:56.609> reasoned<00:31:57.001> it<00:31:57.393> out<00:31:57.786> that,<00:31:58.178> contrary<00:31:58.570> to<00:31:58.963> our<00:31:59.355> sense<00:31:59.748> perception,<00:32:00.140> this<00:32:00.532> has<00:32:00.925> to<00:32:01.317> be<00:32:01.709> made<00:32:02.102> up<00:32:02.494> of<00:32:02.887> tiny<00:32:03.279> little

00:32:03.639 --> 00:32:12.200
bits<00:32:04.080> that<00:32:04.159> are<00:32:04.399> too<00:32:04.679> small<00:32:05.039> for<00:32:05.279> us<00:32:05.519> to<00:32:05.960> see,<00:32:06.960> and<00:32:07.799> atoms,<00:32:08.799> and<00:32:09.200> he<00:32:09.399> wrote<00:32:09.720> a<00:32:09.919> book<00:32:10.120> on<00:32:10.360> near-death<00:32:11.039> experiences<00:32:12.000> which

00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:21.679
we<00:32:12.360> don't<00:32:12.799> have<00:32:13.200> because<00:32:13.440> he<00:32:13.600> didn't<00:32:14.360> have<00:32:14.519> a<00:32:14.720> school<00:32:15.360> like<00:32:15.639> Plato<00:32:16.159> did,<00:32:16.399> so<00:32:16.679> his<00:32:16.880> writings<00:32:17.440> got<00:32:17.919> separated.<00:32:18.919> But<00:32:19.080> in<00:32:19.360> his<00:32:19.639> book,<00:32:20.000> he<00:32:20.679> said,

00:32:21.679 --> 00:32:30.120
"there's<00:32:22.080> no<00:32:22.480> such<00:32:22.919> thing<00:32:23.440> as<00:32:23.559> a<00:32:23.840> moment<00:32:24.240> of<00:32:24.600> death,"<00:32:25.600> and<00:32:25.799> what<00:32:25.960> he<00:32:26.159> was<00:32:27.080> meant<00:32:27.440> was<00:32:27.639> just<00:32:28.039> like<00:32:28.279> people<00:32:28.559> you<00:32:28.720> see<00:32:28.960> on<00:32:29.200> TV<00:32:29.559> today<00:32:29.919> who

00:32:30.120 --> 00:32:38.480
say,<00:32:30.519> "Yeah,<00:32:31.240> this<00:32:31.399> is<00:32:31.720> just<00:32:32.200> brain<00:32:32.639> damage,"<00:32:33.159> or,<00:32:33.399> you<00:32:33.480> know,<00:32:33.760> "This<00:32:33.919> is<00:32:34.240> just<00:32:34.519> the<00:32:35.240> oxygen<00:32:35.960> deprivation<00:32:36.760> to<00:32:37.000> the<00:32:37.240> brain<00:32:38.240> is

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:46.760
what<00:32:38.760> creates<00:32:39.480> these<00:32:40.960> hallucinations,"<00:32:41.960> um.<00:32:42.720> And,<00:32:43.000> and<00:32:43.120> so<00:32:43.480> that<00:32:43.639> form<00:32:44.080> of<00:32:44.360> debate<00:32:45.279> has<00:32:45.440> been<00:32:45.760> unchanged<00:32:46.480> for

00:32:46.760 --> 00:32:55.880
2,300<00:32:47.720> years.<00:32:48.080> That's<00:32:48.320> how<00:32:48.799> people<00:32:49.159> debate<00:32:49.519> it:<00:32:49.960> some<00:32:50.240> people<00:32:50.519> say,<00:32:50.919> "Well,<00:32:51.159> it<00:32:51.399> really<00:32:51.679> is<00:32:51.960> the<00:32:52.159> afterlife,"<00:32:53.000> some<00:32:53.240> people<00:32:53.519> say,<00:32:53.840> "No,<00:32:54.159> it's<00:32:54.440> just<00:32:54.679> an<00:32:55.200> artifact

00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:05.360
of<00:32:56.080> the<00:32:56.360> oxygen<00:32:56.960> deprivation<00:32:57.840> to<00:32:58.000> the<00:32:58.600> brain,"<00:32:59.600> and,<00:33:00.639> um,<00:33:01.639> so<00:33:02.120> how<00:33:02.279> do<00:33:02.440> we<00:33:02.679> solve<00:33:03.120> that<00:33:03.639> dilemma?<00:33:04.639> Well,

00:33:05.360 --> 00:33:14.120
personally,<00:33:05.789> I<00:33:06.219> don't<00:33:06.648> think<00:33:07.078> it's<00:33:07.507> much<00:33:07.937> of<00:33:08.366> a<00:33:08.795> dilemma,<00:33:09.225> because<00:33:09.654> it's<00:33:10.084> never—I've<00:33:10.513> never<00:33:10.942> taken<00:33:11.372> seriously<00:33:11.801> this<00:33:12.231> idea<00:33:12.660> that<00:33:13.090> these<00:33:13.519> things

00:33:14.120 --> 00:33:22.279
are<00:33:14.519> artifacts<00:33:15.120> of<00:33:15.320> the<00:33:15.480> brain<00:33:16.320> process.<00:33:17.320> Why?<00:33:18.279> Because,<00:33:18.679> number<00:33:19.000> one,<00:33:19.639> philosophically,<00:33:20.639> uh,<00:33:21.200> it's<00:33:21.919> people<00:33:22.120> who

00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:31.799
are<00:33:23.679> neuroscientists,<00:33:24.679> um,<00:33:25.399> get<00:33:25.720> convinced<00:33:26.360> by<00:33:26.559> all<00:33:26.760> that<00:33:27.039> stuff<00:33:27.360> that<00:33:27.559> they<00:33:29.200> do<00:33:29.519> and<00:33:29.679> learn<00:33:29.960> about<00:33:30.240> in<00:33:30.799> school,

00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:40.840
and,<00:33:32.240> um,<00:33:33.080> they<00:33:33.320> really<00:33:33.600> think<00:33:33.919> that<00:33:34.080> the<00:33:34.240> brain<00:33:34.639> generates<00:33:36.159> consciousness,<00:33:37.159> but<00:33:37.840> that<00:33:38.399> is<00:33:38.720> just<00:33:39.000> a<00:33:39.360> philosophical<00:33:40.360> position.

00:33:40.840 --> 00:33:50.120
It's<00:33:41.080> not<00:33:41.240> a<00:33:41.679> scientific<00:33:42.679> question.<00:33:43.399> How<00:33:43.639> are<00:33:43.840> you<00:33:43.960> going<00:33:44.080> to<00:33:44.279> know<00:33:44.559> that<00:33:44.760> the<00:33:44.919> brain<00:33:45.320> generates<00:33:46.080> consciousness?<00:33:46.799> You<00:33:47.039> can't<00:33:47.320> really<00:33:47.559> tell<00:33:47.919> by<00:33:48.159> any<00:33:49.120> experiment.

00:33:50.120 --> 00:33:58.679
And,<00:33:50.480> um,<00:33:51.480> that's<00:33:51.760> one<00:33:52.080> thing.<00:33:52.760> But<00:33:52.960> also,<00:33:53.559> at<00:33:53.720> the<00:33:53.880> end<00:33:54.080> of<00:33:54.440> my<00:33:56.039> first<00:33:57.039> quarter<00:33:57.840> of<00:33:58.159> medical

00:33:58.679 --> 00:34:07.159
school,<00:33:59.679> one<00:33:59.840> of<00:34:00.000> my<00:34:00.159> own<00:34:01.000> professors,<00:34:02.000> um,<00:34:02.279> approached<00:34:02.799> me<00:34:03.279> and<00:34:03.440> she<00:34:03.720> said,<00:34:04.320> "Uh,<00:34:04.720> Dr.<00:34:05.000> Moody,<00:34:05.360> I've<00:34:05.559> been<00:34:05.760> wanting<00:34:06.080> to<00:34:06.320> meet<00:34:06.639> you,"<00:34:06.880> she

00:34:07.159 --> 00:34:15.320
said,<00:34:07.542> and<00:34:07.925> she<00:34:08.308> gave<00:34:08.691> her<00:34:09.074> name,<00:34:09.456> which<00:34:09.839> I<00:34:10.222> immediately<00:34:10.605> recognized<00:34:10.988> as<00:34:11.371> a<00:34:11.754> very<00:34:12.137> distinguished<00:34:12.520> professor<00:34:12.903> of<00:34:13.285> medicine,<00:34:13.668> and<00:34:14.051> she<00:34:14.434> said,<00:34:14.817> "I<00:34:15.200> had

00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:24.440
an<00:34:15.599> experience<00:34:16.119> I<00:34:16.200> want<00:34:16.320> to<00:34:16.480> tell<00:34:16.639> you<00:34:16.800> about."<00:34:17.079> So<00:34:17.320> she<00:34:17.839> led<00:34:18.159> me<00:34:18.440> across<00:34:18.960> the<00:34:19.679> campus<00:34:20.159> to<00:34:20.440> her,<00:34:22.280> um,<00:34:23.440> um,

00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:32.839
office,<00:34:25.040> and<00:34:25.240> this<00:34:25.359> is<00:34:25.599> what<00:34:25.760> she<00:34:25.960> told<00:34:26.240> me:<00:34:26.480> that<00:34:26.720> some<00:34:27.159> while<00:34:27.480> before,<00:34:27.720> before<00:34:28.440> she<00:34:28.679> had<00:34:28.839> been<00:34:29.159> resuscitating<00:34:30.040> her<00:34:30.240> own<00:34:30.639> mother,<00:34:31.359> she<00:34:31.520> had<00:34:31.679> walked<00:34:32.000> in<00:34:32.240> and<00:34:32.399> her<00:34:32.560> mother

00:34:32.839 --> 00:34:42.079
was<00:34:33.040> having<00:34:33.280> a<00:34:33.520> cardiac<00:34:34.000> arrest,<00:34:34.919> so<00:34:35.159> she<00:34:35.359> tried<00:34:35.839> her<00:34:36.079> best<00:34:36.440> to<00:34:36.720> resuscitate<00:34:37.480> her<00:34:37.679> mother,<00:34:38.599> but<00:34:39.000> it<00:34:39.159> didn't<00:34:39.520> work,<00:34:39.839> and<00:34:40.240> her<00:34:40.520> mother<00:34:41.079> died.

00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:51.200
But<00:34:42.240> she<00:34:42.399> said<00:34:42.800> when<00:34:43.000> she<00:34:43.240> felt<00:34:43.760> her<00:34:43.919> mother<00:34:44.440> die,<00:34:45.440> she<00:34:45.919> herself<00:34:46.679> lifted<00:34:47.200> up<00:34:47.480> from<00:34:47.720> her<00:34:48.200> body<00:34:49.200> and<00:34:49.960> observed<00:34:50.960> down

00:34:51.200 --> 00:35:00.520
below.<00:34:51.689> She<00:34:52.179> could<00:34:52.668> see<00:34:53.158> her<00:34:53.647> own<00:34:54.136> body<00:34:54.626> down<00:34:55.115> below<00:34:55.605> and<00:34:56.094> her<00:34:56.584> mo—her<00:34:57.073> mother's<00:34:57.562> now<00:34:58.052> deceased<00:34:58.541> body,<00:34:59.031> and,<00:34:59.520> um,

00:35:00.520 --> 00:35:10.320
she<00:35:00.960> was<00:35:01.200> startled<00:35:01.839> by<00:35:02.079> this.<00:35:02.320> Like<00:35:02.520> me,<00:35:02.800> she<00:35:03.040> had<00:35:03.240> not<00:35:03.480> really<00:35:03.760> had<00:35:03.960> any<00:35:04.200> sort<00:35:04.400> of<00:35:04.599> religious<00:35:05.160> background<00:35:05.680> to<00:35:05.920> prepare<00:35:06.320> her<00:35:06.480> for<00:35:06.839> this,<00:35:07.720> but<00:35:07.920> she<00:35:08.119> said<00:35:08.440> in<00:35:08.720> her

00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:18.880
astonishment—she<00:35:10.691> was,<00:35:11.062> to<00:35:11.433> use<00:35:11.804> her<00:35:12.175> words,<00:35:12.545> she<00:35:12.916> said,<00:35:13.287> "I<00:35:13.658> was<00:35:14.029> trying<00:35:14.400> to<00:35:14.771> get<00:35:15.142> my<00:35:15.513> bearings"—and<00:35:15.884> she<00:35:16.255> became<00:35:16.625> aware<00:35:16.996> of<00:35:17.367> her<00:35:17.738> mother<00:35:18.109> there<00:35:18.480> beside

00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:27.920
her,<00:35:19.440> to<00:35:19.599> use<00:35:19.839> her<00:35:20.040> words<00:35:20.440> again,<00:35:20.920> now<00:35:21.240> in<00:35:21.680> spirit<00:35:22.359> form.<00:35:23.359> So<00:35:23.640> she<00:35:23.880> said<00:35:24.200> her<00:35:24.480> goodbyes<00:35:25.040> to<00:35:25.200> her<00:35:25.359> mother,<00:35:25.960> and<00:35:26.079> she<00:35:26.280> saw<00:35:26.599> her<00:35:26.800> mother<00:35:27.160> receive

00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:36.320
Into<00:35:28.280> this<00:35:28.599> light<00:35:29.400> and<00:35:29.520> she<00:35:29.720> saw<00:35:30.119> figures<00:35:30.680> coming<00:35:31.079> out<00:35:31.280> of<00:35:31.520> the<00:35:31.760> light<00:35:32.480> some<00:35:32.680> of<00:35:32.880> whom<00:35:33.119> she<00:35:33.359> identified<00:35:34.000> as<00:35:34.200> people<00:35:34.599> she<00:35:35.359> knew<00:35:36.160> who

00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:45.359
had<00:35:36.480> been<00:35:36.680> friends<00:35:37.000> or<00:35:37.280> relatives<00:35:37.839> of<00:35:38.040> her<00:35:38.280> mother's<00:35:38.800> who<00:35:39.000> had<00:35:39.480> died<00:35:40.480> and<00:35:40.680> then<00:35:41.200> she<00:35:41.400> saw<00:35:41.640> her<00:35:41.760> mother<00:35:42.200> disappear<00:35:42.720> into<00:35:43.040> this<00:35:43.280> light<00:35:43.520> and<00:35:43.720> then<00:35:43.880> she<00:35:44.160> herself<00:35:45.040> came

00:35:45.359 --> 00:35:54.040
back<00:35:45.599> to<00:35:45.839> her<00:35:46.079> own<00:35:46.440> body<00:35:47.359> and<00:35:47.640> was<00:35:47.880> standing<00:35:48.440> there<00:35:48.680> beside<00:35:49.160> the<00:35:49.359> body<00:35:49.680> of<00:35:49.880> her<00:35:50.400> mother<00:35:51.400> and<00:35:51.839> um<00:35:52.280> so<00:35:52.599> it<00:35:52.720> was<00:35:52.960> immediately<00:35:53.640> obvious

00:35:54.040 --> 00:36:02.800
to<00:35:54.240> me<00:35:54.560> that<00:35:55.440> it's,<00:35:55.960> if<00:35:56.240> these<00:35:56.560> things<00:35:56.880> are<00:35:57.319> the<00:35:57.920> result<00:35:58.400> of<00:35:58.560> the<00:35:58.800> oxygen<00:35:59.440> deprivation<00:36:00.160> to<00:36:00.400> the<00:36:00.720> brain<00:36:01.720> why<00:36:01.960> would<00:36:02.560> a

00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:12.480
bystander<00:36:03.560> who<00:36:03.760> was<00:36:03.960> not<00:36:04.240> ill<00:36:04.480> or<00:36:04.680> injured<00:36:05.599> have<00:36:05.880> identically<00:36:06.560> the<00:36:06.760> same<00:36:07.240> experience<00:36:08.240> so<00:36:08.440> we're<00:36:08.599> dealing<00:36:09.079> with<00:36:09.359> something<00:36:09.760> else<00:36:10.160> entirely<00:36:11.480> here

00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:21.400
and<00:36:12.599> it's<00:36:12.920> very<00:36:13.240> common<00:36:14.040> for<00:36:14.800> bystanders<00:36:15.720> at<00:36:15.920> the<00:36:16.119> death<00:36:16.480> of<00:36:16.839> someone<00:36:17.319> else<00:36:18.160> to<00:36:18.440> have<00:36:18.839> all<00:36:19.240> of<00:36:19.640> the<00:36:20.560> features

00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:29.880
that<00:36:21.720> we<00:36:21.960> think<00:36:22.240> of<00:36:22.520> as<00:36:22.640> a<00:36:22.800> near-death<00:36:23.560> experience<00:36:24.560> people<00:36:25.280> uh<00:36:25.400> who<00:36:25.520> are<00:36:25.760> standing<00:36:26.280> by<00:36:26.560> for<00:36:26.760> example<00:36:27.200> may<00:36:27.599> say<00:36:27.880> that<00:36:28.359> as<00:36:28.560> the<00:36:28.760> person<00:36:29.079> in<00:36:29.280> the<00:36:29.440> bed

00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:38.280
dies<00:36:30.839> that<00:36:31.119> they<00:36:31.640> themselves<00:36:32.280> seem<00:36:32.680> to<00:36:33.800> um<00:36:34.800> that<00:36:34.960> they<00:36:35.079> can<00:36:35.280> see<00:36:35.800> what<00:36:36.119> appears<00:36:36.560> to<00:36:36.760> be<00:36:37.000> a<00:36:37.319> spirit<00:36:37.839> for<00:36:38.119> one

00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:46.480
of<00:36:38.440> a<00:36:38.599> better<00:36:38.880> term<00:36:39.480> leave<00:36:39.960> the<00:36:40.200> body<00:36:41.200> I<00:36:41.359> hear<00:36:41.720> this<00:36:42.079> from<00:36:42.880> relatives<00:36:43.640> at<00:36:43.839> the<00:36:44.000> bedside<00:36:44.640> of<00:36:44.800> a<00:36:45.000> dying<00:36:45.359> loved<00:36:45.680> one<00:36:46.160> I<00:36:46.280> hear

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light<00:37:04.119> part<00:37:04.520> way<00:37:04.920> toward<00:37:05.400> with<00:37:05.599> the<00:37:05.720> dying<00:37:06.079> person<00:37:06.839> then<00:37:07.079> they<00:37:07.280> come<00:37:07.599> back<00:37:07.880> and<00:37:08.319> rejoin<00:37:08.880> their<00:37:09.200> bodies<00:37:10.200> or<00:37:10.640> people<00:37:11.079> at<00:37:11.359> the<00:37:11.640> bedside<00:37:12.200> of

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that<00:37:20.920> they<00:37:21.079> may<00:37:21.240> see<00:37:21.760> apparitions<00:37:22.640> of<00:37:23.079> what<00:37:23.200> are<00:37:23.520> apparently<00:37:24.160> the<00:37:24.400> dying<00:37:24.880> person's<00:37:26.240> um<00:37:27.240> um<00:37:27.760> deceased<00:37:28.359> relatives<00:37:28.960> and

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and<00:37:47.000> this<00:37:47.119> is<00:37:47.280> a<00:37:47.560> shocker<00:37:48.119> to<00:37:48.319> me<00:37:49.160> because<00:37:49.440> you<00:37:49.560> know<00:37:49.760> I'm<00:37:49.920> not<00:37:50.119> even<00:37:50.400> looking<00:37:50.760> forward<00:37:51.160> to<00:37:51.480> sitting<00:37:51.760> in<00:37:51.920> on<00:37:52.200> my<00:37:52.359> own<00:37:52.760> life<00:37:53.119> review<00:37:54.000> much<00:37:54.359> less<00:37:54.640> the<00:37:54.800> idea<00:37:55.160> that

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as<00:38:12.440> some<00:38:12.760> shocking<00:38:13.480> thing<00:38:13.800> but<00:38:14.119> no<00:38:15.079> it's<00:38:15.440> it's<00:38:15.800> completely<00:38:16.720> natural<00:38:17.720> which<00:38:17.960> makes<00:38:18.240> a<00:38:18.440> certain<00:38:18.760> amount<00:38:19.000> of<00:38:19.240> sense<00:38:19.560> to<00:38:19.760> me<00:38:20.160> in<00:38:20.480> that

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very<00:38:29.839> familiar<00:38:30.319> to<00:38:30.560> all<00:38:30.760> of<00:38:30.960> us<00:38:31.640> and<00:38:32.599> um<00:38:33.599> and<00:38:33.800> also<00:38:34.119> another<00:38:34.480> thing<00:38:34.640> you<00:38:34.800> would<00:38:35.000> think<00:38:35.240> about<00:38:35.800> this<00:38:36.480> is<00:38:36.720> that<00:38:36.960> surely<00:38:37.560> this

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that's<00:38:46.240> what<00:38:46.359> I<00:38:46.520> thought<00:38:46.760> for<00:38:46.920> a<00:38:47.079> long<00:38:47.359> time<00:38:47.599> until<00:38:48.079> just<00:38:48.280> a<00:38:48.440> few<00:38:48.680> months<00:38:49.079> back<00:38:49.319> we<00:38:49.480> got<00:38:49.599> a<00:38:49.839> communication<00:38:50.760> from<00:38:51.000> a<00:38:51.680> physician<00:38:52.680> who<00:38:52.880> was<00:38:53.119> telling<00:38:53.520> us<00:38:53.880> that<00:38:54.280> um

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he<00:39:02.960> said<00:39:03.200> when<00:39:03.319> he<00:39:03.400> was<00:39:03.560> trying<00:39:03.800> to<00:39:04.040> resuscitate<00:39:04.760> this<00:39:04.920> man<00:39:05.520> he<00:39:05.599> said<00:39:05.800> he<00:39:05.920> was<00:39:06.119> flooded<00:39:06.680> with<00:39:07.040> images<00:39:08.040> which<00:39:08.359> plainly<00:39:08.920> were<00:39:09.319> this<00:39:10.200> man's<00:39:10.920> life

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flashing<00:39:12.480> through<00:39:12.760> the<00:39:12.920> mind<00:39:13.200> of<00:39:13.400> the<00:39:13.960> doctor<00:39:14.960> so<00:39:15.680> um<00:39:16.680> I<00:39:16.960> we<00:39:17.160> are<00:39:17.480> into<00:39:17.960> something<00:39:18.480> very<00:39:18.760> very<00:39:19.119> mysterious<00:39:20.079> here

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and<00:39:21.640> um<00:39:22.640> it's<00:39:22.920> I've<00:39:23.079> been<00:39:23.240> through<00:39:23.400> a<00:39:23.640> process<00:39:24.000> where<00:39:24.160> it's<00:39:24.440> just<00:39:24.880> very<00:39:25.640> very<00:39:26.400> I<00:39:26.520> have<00:39:26.680> a<00:39:26.800> great<00:39:27.000> deal<00:39:27.200> of<00:39:27.560> reluctance<00:39:28.240> to<00:39:28.400> draw<00:39:28.640> a

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conclusion<00:39:29.520> about<00:39:29.960> this<00:39:30.960> and<00:39:31.599> yet<00:39:32.599> things<00:39:33.040> happen<00:39:33.440> that<00:39:33.560> are<00:39:33.800> just<00:39:34.200> very<00:39:34.560> hard<00:39:34.800> to<00:39:35.040> put<00:39:35.960> together<00:39:36.960> um

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the<00:39:47.200> last<00:39:47.720> couple<00:39:48.000> of<00:39:48.359> years<00:39:49.359> is<00:39:49.640> that<00:39:49.839> when<00:39:50.040> I<00:39:50.440> lecture<00:39:51.000> now<00:39:51.720> medical<00:39:52.319> doctors<00:39:52.800> are<00:39:53.040> flocking<00:39:53.760> to<00:39:54.119> my<00:39:54.720> lectures<00:39:55.720> and

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make<00:40:14.640> some<00:40:14.920> sort<00:40:15.119> of<00:40:15.440> statement<00:40:16.040> about<00:40:17.079> them<00:40:18.079> and<00:40:18.400> and<00:40:18.640> I<00:40:18.760> would<00:40:19.079> refer<00:40:19.560> you<00:40:19.760> to<00:40:20.119> a<00:40:20.560> fascinating<00:40:21.440> series<00:40:21.880> of

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articles<00:40:24.280> in<00:40:24.480> a<00:40:24.680> journal<00:40:25.200> called<00:40:25.760> Missouri<00:40:26.720> Medicine<00:40:28.040> and<00:40:28.240> Missouri<00:40:28.800> Medicine<00:40:29.319> is<00:40:29.560> the<00:40:29.760> state<00:40:30.400> is<00:40:30.560> the<00:40:30.720> medical<00:40:31.520> journal

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kind<00:40:58.560> of<00:40:58.839> shocking<00:40:59.400> to<00:40:59.599> me<00:40:59.960> and<00:41:00.800> because<00:41:01.160> I<00:41:01.319> see<00:41:01.680> these<00:41:01.960> statements<00:41:02.480> in<00:41:02.720> this<00:41:02.960> med<00:41:03.280> in<00:41:03.440> this<00:41:03.599> medical<00:41:03.920> journal<00:41:04.400> oh<00:41:04.680> yeah<00:41:05.400> there's<00:41:05.599> an<00:41:05.920> afterlife<00:41:06.839> and

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know<00:41:15.400> there's<00:41:15.680> it<00:41:15.839> startles<00:41:16.400> me<00:41:16.720> but<00:41:17.200> but<00:41:17.359> there<00:41:17.480> is<00:41:17.680> an<00:41:18.720> afterlife<00:41:20.400> um<00:41:21.400> one<00:41:21.560> of<00:41:21.720> the<00:41:22.000> people<00:41:22.440> who<00:41:22.880> wrote<00:41:23.359> this

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he's<00:41:32.079> just<00:41:32.280> a<00:41:32.560> delightful<00:41:33.359> person<00:41:33.880> Anthony<00:41:34.599> has<00:41:34.960> a<00:41:35.480> what<00:41:35.599> we<00:41:35.760> call<00:41:35.960> in<00:41:36.200> psychiatry<00:41:36.920> the<00:41:37.079> oral<00:41:37.839> personality<00:41:38.839> he's<00:41:39.079> kind<00:41:39.240> of<00:41:39.440> round<00:41:39.880> and

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he's<00:41:40.359> very<00:41:41.200> his<00:41:41.520> whole<00:41:41.839> focus<00:41:42.160> in<00:41:42.480> life<00:41:42.800> is<00:41:43.040> to<00:41:43.640> um<00:41:44.000> serve<00:41:44.440> other<00:41:44.760> people<00:41:45.240> it's<00:41:45.480> very<00:41:45.880> jovial<00:41:46.880> and<00:41:47.280> Anthony<00:41:48.280> um

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um<00:41:58.640> fortunately<00:41:59.319> a<00:41:59.520> nurse<00:41:59.960> was<00:42:00.319> right<00:42:00.640> there<00:42:01.400> and<00:42:01.640> she<00:42:02.040> resuscitated<00:42:02.960> him<00:42:03.520> but<00:42:03.680> he<00:42:03.800> had<00:42:04.000> this<00:42:04.280> amazing<00:42:05.240> experience<00:42:06.240> which

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in<00:42:34.839> physiology<00:42:35.839> is<00:42:36.160> now<00:42:36.520> an<00:42:37.240> accomplished<00:42:38.240> concert<00:42:39.720> pianist<00:42:40.720> and<00:42:41.160> um<00:42:42.200> so

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00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:53.160
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00:45:53.160 --> 00:46:01.760
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tell<00:46:09.400> you<00:46:09.599> I'm<00:46:09.800> not<00:46:10.319> dead<00:46:11.319> and<00:46:12.280> as<00:46:12.839> seemingly<00:46:13.640> absurd<00:46:14.280> in<00:46:14.440> a<00:46:14.599> way<00:46:14.839> that<00:46:15.000> the<00:46:15.160> whole<00:46:15.400> notion<00:46:15.760> of<00:46:15.880> an<00:46:16.160> afterlife<00:46:16.800> is<00:46:17.119> because<00:46:17.280> it's

00:46:17.520 --> 00:46:25.880
self-contradictory<00:46:18.440> right<00:46:19.280> I<00:46:19.359> mean<00:46:20.040> death<00:46:20.400> just<00:46:20.599> means<00:46:21.119> the<00:46:21.359> final<00:46:21.720> irreversible<00:46:22.599> cessation<00:46:23.280> of<00:46:23.520> de<00:46:23.760> of<00:46:24.000> life<00:46:24.720> so<00:46:25.000> to<00:46:25.200> say<00:46:25.559> there's

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life<00:46:26.160> after<00:46:26.520> death<00:46:26.720> me<00:46:26.920> means<00:46:27.480> there's<00:46:27.800> life<00:46:28.119> after<00:46:28.440> the<00:46:28.640> final<00:46:29.000> irreversible<00:46:29.880> cessation<00:46:30.520> of<00:46:30.800> life<00:46:31.319> in<00:46:31.480> a<00:46:31.640> way<00:46:31.800> it<00:46:31.960> doesn't<00:46:32.359> make<00:46:32.720> sense<00:46:33.559> and<00:46:33.760> yet<00:46:33.920> at

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um<00:46:45.200> in<00:46:45.559> formal<00:46:46.200> logic<00:46:46.720> a<00:46:47.280> self-contradiction<00:46:48.280> is<00:46:48.559> regarded<00:46:49.240> as<00:46:49.400> a<00:46:49.640> sign<00:46:49.960> of<00:46:50.680> defeat<00:46:51.680> he<00:46:51.800> said<00:46:52.079> in<00:46:52.280> the

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I<00:47:01.200> think<00:47:01.480> that<00:47:01.680> we<00:47:01.880> may<00:47:02.400> be<00:47:02.559> in<00:47:02.839> that<00:47:03.119> situation<00:47:04.119> now<00:47:05.119> and<00:47:05.400> so<00:47:05.760> I<00:47:05.880> think<00:47:06.240> that<00:47:06.839> it's<00:47:07.160> now<00:47:08.040> actually<00:47:09.040> conceivable

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point<00:47:18.440> in<00:47:18.640> the<00:47:18.839> future<00:47:19.680> have<00:47:19.839> a<00:47:20.319> genuine<00:47:21.319> rational<00:47:21.920> proof<00:47:22.240> of<00:47:22.359> an<00:47:22.720> afterlife<00:47:23.720> and<00:47:24.040> what<00:47:24.280> would<00:47:24.559> that<00:47:24.800> do<00:47:25.240> to<00:47:25.480> the<00:47:25.839> human<00:47:27.119> condition

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well<00:47:28.200> this<00:47:28.640> Jim<00:47:28.960> McDonald<00:47:29.640> I<00:47:29.839> mentioned<00:47:30.559> the<00:47:30.720> reason<00:47:31.160> he<00:47:31.359> wanted<00:47:33.160> to<00:47:34.160> get<00:47:34.319> a<00:47:34.520> proof<00:47:34.760> of<00:47:34.920> an<00:47:35.200> afterlife<00:47:35.960> was

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that<00:47:36.400> he<00:47:36.640> thought<00:47:36.960> that<00:47:37.160> that<00:47:37.319> would<00:47:37.480> bring<00:47:37.760> the<00:47:37.920> world<00:47:38.400> together<00:47:38.680> and<00:47:38.839> there'd<00:47:39.079> be<00:47:39.240> no<00:47:40.160> conflict<00:47:41.160> well<00:47:41.359> I<00:47:41.480> don't<00:47:41.720> buy<00:47:42.119> that<00:47:42.440> I<00:47:42.520> mean<00:47:42.680> I<00:47:42.880> hope<00:47:43.160> it's<00:47:43.920> true<00:47:44.920> but

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that<00:48:02.920> I<00:48:03.079> think<00:48:03.440> that<00:48:03.760> the<00:48:04.440> process<00:48:05.079> of<00:48:05.400> rational<00:48:06.000> proof<00:48:06.280> of<00:48:06.440> an<00:48:06.920> afterlife<00:48:07.920> would<00:48:08.280> absolutely<00:48:09.119> change<00:48:09.720> the<00:48:09.960> nature<00:48:10.400> of<00:48:10.599> the<00:48:10.839> kind

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of<00:48:11.240> beings<00:48:11.720> we<00:48:12.000> are<00:48:13.000> because<00:48:13.599> um<00:48:14.119> the<00:48:14.319> great<00:48:14.720> skeptic<00:48:15.400> David<00:48:15.800> Hume<00:48:16.400> said<00:48:17.400> by<00:48:17.640> the<00:48:17.800> mere<00:48:18.160> light<00:48:18.440> of<00:48:18.680> reason<00:48:19.280> it

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logic<00:48:28.760> is<00:48:29.040> required<00:48:29.520> for<00:48:29.760> that<00:48:30.040> purpose<00:48:31.000> and<00:48:31.280> some<00:48:31.599> new<00:48:32.040> faculties<00:48:32.640> of<00:48:32.880> the<00:48:33.400> mind<00:48:34.400> that<00:48:34.640> they<00:48:35.000> may<00:48:35.400> enable<00:48:36.079> us<00:48:37.000> to

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comprehend<00:48:38.400> that<00:48:39.240> logic<00:48:40.240> and<00:48:40.440> I<00:48:40.599> do<00:48:40.920> think<00:48:41.520> that<00:48:42.040> the<00:48:42.240> very<00:48:42.920> process<00:48:43.520> of<00:48:43.839> constructing<00:48:44.440> a<00:48:44.680> rational<00:48:45.200> proof<00:48:45.559> of

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an<00:48:45.960> afterlife<00:48:46.880> would<00:48:47.119> do<00:48:47.480> something<00:48:47.960> to<00:48:48.200> the<00:48:48.440> nature<00:48:49.040> of<00:48:49.280> the<00:48:49.520> human<00:48:50.079> person<00:48:51.040> where<00:48:51.240> we<00:48:51.400> would<00:48:51.640> no<00:48:51.920> longer<00:48:52.400> be<00:48:52.880> exactly<00:48:53.440> the<00:48:53.640> same<00:48:54.000> kind

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then<00:49:04.200> I<00:49:04.359> got<00:49:04.520> to<00:49:04.799> thinking<00:49:05.200> as<00:49:05.359> I've<00:49:05.559> talked<00:49:05.960> about<00:49:06.280> a<00:49:06.440> couple<00:49:06.680> of<00:49:06.839> years<00:49:07.119> ago<00:49:07.599> here<00:49:07.880> it's<00:49:08.119> like<00:49:08.400> then<00:49:08.520> I<00:49:08.680> got<00:49:08.839> to<00:49:09.040> thinking<00:49:09.720> well<00:49:10.720> is<00:49:11.440> if<00:49:11.599> there's<00:49:11.839> an<00:49:12.760> afterlife

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think<00:50:27.040> that<00:50:27.200> the<00:50:27.359> reason<00:50:27.839> why<00:50:28.040> we<00:50:28.240> have<00:50:28.720> theater<00:50:29.720> is<00:50:29.920> that<00:50:30.160> people<00:50:31.000> dis<00:50:31.640> you<00:50:31.760> know<00:50:32.359> woke<00:50:32.720> up<00:50:33.000> to<00:50:33.319> this<00:50:33.880> this<00:50:34.240> aspect<00:50:34.799> of<00:50:35.040> life

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it<00:51:45.319> was<00:51:46.119> the<00:51:46.319> Athenians<00:51:47.160> had<00:51:47.480> this<00:51:47.920> um<00:51:48.920> folk<00:51:49.480> festival<00:51:50.079> they<00:51:50.240> did<00:51:50.599> every<00:51:50.920> year<00:51:51.240> and<00:51:51.359> it<00:51:51.480> was<00:51:51.599> a<00:51:51.880> chorus<00:51:52.440> would<00:51:52.680> sing<00:51:53.079> these<00:51:53.359> stories

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but<00:51:54.440> this<00:51:54.680> one<00:51:55.000> day<00:51:55.240> for<00:51:55.520> reasons<00:51:56.079> unknown<00:51:56.960> this<00:51:57.200> one<00:51:57.559> guy<00:51:58.240> Thespis<00:51:59.240> stepped<00:51:59.720> forward<00:52:00.319> from<00:52:00.599> the<00:52:00.799> chorus<00:52:01.319> and<00:52:01.520> spoke<00:52:01.880> his<00:52:02.040> own<00:52:02.319> lines

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and<00:52:03.160> it<00:52:03.319> created<00:52:03.880> a<00:52:04.839> sensation<00:52:05.839> and<00:52:06.040> the<00:52:06.359> ruler<00:52:06.880> of<00:52:07.200> Athens<00:52:07.720> at<00:52:07.960> that<00:52:08.240> time<00:52:08.559> was<00:52:09.240> Pisistratus<00:52:10.240> and<00:52:10.359> you<00:52:10.440> know<00:52:10.640> the<00:52:10.760> Greeks<00:52:11.440> what

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they<00:52:11.799> love<00:52:12.040> is<00:52:12.440> contests<00:52:13.440> right<00:52:13.839> the<00:52:14.079> athletics<00:52:14.720> for<00:52:14.960> example<00:52:15.359> so<00:52:15.640> everything<00:52:16.000> is<00:52:16.160> a<00:52:16.440> contest<00:52:17.040> to<00:52:17.240> the<00:52:17.400> Greeks<00:52:18.160> so<00:52:18.480> Pisistratus<00:52:19.480> said<00:52:20.480> let's

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don't<00:53:05.000> understand<00:53:05.520> was<00:53:05.799> how<00:53:06.040> they<00:53:06.240> got<00:53:06.559> people<00:53:06.880> to<00:53:07.160> sit<00:53:07.520> still<00:53:07.920> for<00:53:08.160> so<00:53:08.559> long<00:53:09.559> to<00:53:09.839> pay<00:53:10.079> attention<00:53:10.839> because<00:53:11.000> you<00:53:11.119> know<00:53:12.280> the<00:53:13.280> the

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athletics<00:53:14.359> they're<00:53:14.640> jumping<00:53:15.000> up<00:53:15.160> and<00:53:15.319> down<00:53:15.880> but<00:53:16.079> how<00:53:16.240> did<00:53:16.440> they<00:53:16.599> get<00:53:16.839> people<00:53:17.079> to<00:53:17.319> sit<00:53:17.640> still<00:53:18.359> because<00:53:18.680> it's<00:53:18.960> in<00:53:19.200> us<00:53:20.480> already<00:53:21.480> so<00:53:21.799> that's

00:53:22.040 --> 00:53:30.280
where<00:53:22.280> I've<00:53:22.520> come<00:53:22.799> to<00:53:23.319> with<00:53:23.599> this<00:53:23.920> that<00:53:24.160> I<00:53:24.319> think<00:53:25.240> um<00:53:26.240> that<00:53:26.520> we<00:53:26.640> are<00:53:26.799> living<00:53:27.160> in<00:53:27.319> a<00:53:27.559> kind<00:53:27.760> of<00:53:28.040> theater<00:53:28.960> just<00:53:29.200> like<00:53:29.440> as<00:53:29.640> I<00:53:30.040> hear

00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:39.160
from<00:53:30.559> my<00:53:30.720> friends<00:53:31.200> here<00:53:31.400> that<00:53:31.599> that's<00:53:31.880> kind<00:53:32.040> of<00:53:32.280> what<00:53:32.559> the<00:53:33.319> the<00:53:33.480> Hindu<00:53:33.920> model<00:53:34.240> of<00:53:34.480> this<00:53:34.880> is<00:53:35.599> and<00:53:35.960> um<00:53:36.520> read<00:53:36.760> a<00:53:37.079> playwright<00:53:37.680> not<00:53:37.880> long<00:53:38.160> ago<00:53:38.559> who

00:53:39.160 --> 00:53:47.319
said<00:53:40.160> uh<00:53:40.720> a<00:53:40.920> play<00:53:41.280> is<00:53:41.520> just<00:53:41.720> a<00:53:42.000> life<00:53:42.359> with<00:53:42.559> the<00:53:42.720> boring<00:53:43.319> parts<00:53:43.799> taken<00:53:44.319> out<00:53:45.319> and<00:53:45.440> you<00:53:45.520> know<00:53:45.680> it's<00:53:45.920> very<00:53:46.200> interesting<00:53:46.799> that<00:53:47.000> it<00:53:47.200> it

00:53:47.319 --> 00:53:55.559
This<00:53:47.720> closing<00:53:48.440> things<00:53:48.799> in<00:53:49.000> our<00:53:49.640> life,<00:53:50.000> what<00:53:50.200> we<00:53:50.359> do<00:53:50.640> is<00:53:50.799> we<00:53:51.000> get<00:53:51.119> to<00:53:51.280> see<00:53:51.559> the<00:53:51.720> play<00:53:52.040> from<00:53:52.280> the<00:53:52.440> other<00:53:52.760> point<00:53:52.960> of<00:53:53.160> view,<00:53:53.640> and<00:53:53.839> I<00:53:53.960> just<00:53:54.160> think<00:53:54.440> that's<00:53:54.720> neat.<00:53:55.400> Who

00:53:55.559 --> 00:54:04.040
else<00:53:55.839> could<00:53:55.960> have<00:53:56.079> figured<00:53:56.559> that<00:53:56.720> out<00:53:56.920> but<00:53:57.280> God?<00:53:57.960> You<00:53:58.319> know,<00:53:59.319> now,<00:53:59.680> um,<00:54:00.559> this<00:54:00.720> is<00:54:00.920> a<00:54:01.079> little<00:54:01.280> bit<00:54:01.559> off<00:54:01.799> the<00:54:02.000> cuff,<00:54:02.359> 'cause<00:54:02.520> I<00:54:02.720> just,<00:54:03.200> you<00:54:03.280> know,<00:54:03.520> Eban<00:54:03.880> is

00:54:04.040 --> 00:54:12.599
not<00:54:04.200> feeling<00:54:04.640> well<00:54:04.880> tonight,<00:54:05.240> so<00:54:05.559> I've,<00:54:05.880> I've,<00:54:06.240> um,<00:54:07.240> um,<00:54:07.520> taken<00:54:08.040> on<00:54:08.319> this,<00:54:08.520> but<00:54:08.760> I,<00:54:08.960> I'm<00:54:09.119> not<00:54:09.319> even<00:54:09.559> sure<00:54:09.920> how<00:54:10.079> long<00:54:10.319> we<00:54:10.640> have<00:54:10.920> tonight,<00:54:11.280> but<00:54:11.440> I<00:54:11.559> want<00:54:11.760> to<00:54:12.359> at

00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:20.440
this<00:54:12.839> point,<00:54:13.559> um,<00:54:13.960> to<00:54:14.160> sort<00:54:14.359> of<00:54:14.559> set<00:54:14.839> the<00:54:15.000> scene,<00:54:15.599> maybe<00:54:15.880> if<00:54:16.000> I<00:54:16.160> have<00:54:16.440> time<00:54:16.599> for<00:54:16.799> a<00:54:16.920> couple<00:54:17.119> of<00:54:17.319> questions.<00:54:17.799> I<00:54:17.920> don't

00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:29.720
know,<00:54:21.440> five<00:54:21.720> minutes?<00:54:22.640> Yeah,<00:54:22.799> let's<00:54:23.079> have<00:54:23.359> questions<00:54:23.799> for<00:54:24.079> about<00:54:24.480> five<00:54:24.760> minutes<00:54:25.200> in<00:54:25.440> case,<00:54:26.280> um,<00:54:26.559> um,<00:54:28.720> anybody

00:54:29.720 --> 00:54:38.240
Yes,<00:54:30.680> what?<00:54:30.960> Was<00:54:31.240> there<00:54:31.400> an<00:54:32.240> empathic<00:54:33.240> death<00:54:33.760> experience<00:54:34.480> for<00:54:34.799> somebody<00:54:35.319> who<00:54:35.640> came<00:54:37.079> back?<00:54:38.079> I

00:54:38.240 --> 00:54:47.160
see<00:54:38.640> what<00:54:38.839> you<00:54:39.240> mean.<00:54:40.240> In<00:54:40.440> other<00:54:40.839> words,<00:54:41.839> yes,<00:54:42.240> to<00:54:42.440> a<00:54:42.599> degree,<00:54:43.520> and<00:54:43.680> that's<00:54:43.960> that<00:54:44.160> all<00:54:44.359> the<00:54:44.559> time<00:54:44.880> I<00:54:45.040> hear<00:54:45.319> people<00:54:45.760> say<00:54:46.240> that

00:54:47.160 --> 00:54:56.520
um,<00:54:48.160> that<00:54:48.960> they<00:54:49.200> become<00:54:49.599> acutely<00:54:50.160> aware<00:54:50.559> of<00:54:50.799> what<00:54:51.000> the<00:54:51.200> bystanders<00:54:52.000> were<00:54:52.319> saying,<00:54:52.920> thinking,<00:54:53.559> and<00:54:53.760> going<00:54:54.040> on.<00:54:54.520> Is<00:54:54.680> that<00:54:54.880> what<00:54:55.040> you<00:54:55.440> meant?

00:54:56.520 --> 00:54:59.440
I

00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:03.040
mean

00:55:03.040 --> 00:55:07.400
Yes.

00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:16.319
Yes,<00:55:08.400> nothing<00:55:08.839> like<00:55:09.079> that<00:55:09.319> comes<00:55:09.599> to<00:55:09.839> mind,<00:55:10.440> but<00:55:10.599> I<00:55:10.720> bet<00:55:10.960> there<00:55:11.079> are.<00:55:11.359> I<00:55:11.520> just,<00:55:12.040> I<00:55:12.160> can't<00:55:12.440> bring<00:55:12.720> one<00:55:13.000> up,<00:55:13.440> but,<00:55:13.839> uh,<00:55:14.480> I<00:55:15.040> hear<00:55:16.040> all

00:55:16.319 --> 00:55:25.559
the<00:55:17.319> time.<00:55:18.319> Yes,<00:55:18.920> yes,<00:55:19.160> immediately<00:55:19.680> I<00:55:19.799> think<00:55:20.000> of<00:55:20.200> one,<00:55:21.160> um,<00:55:21.319> and<00:55:21.440> I<00:55:21.559> mentioned<00:55:22.079> him<00:55:22.280> a<00:55:22.400> couple<00:55:22.640> of<00:55:22.799> years<00:55:23.000> ago<00:55:23.319> when<00:55:23.440> I<00:55:23.520> was<00:55:23.760> down<00:55:24.000> here.<00:55:24.240> He's,<00:55:24.680> um,

00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:33.760
uh,<00:55:25.880> graphic<00:55:26.559> artist<00:55:27.559> who,<00:55:28.000> um,<00:55:28.520> was<00:55:28.720> in<00:55:28.960> this<00:55:29.200> horrible<00:55:29.760> car<00:55:30.200> crash<00:55:31.200> in<00:55:31.480> which<00:55:31.839> his<00:55:32.119> wife<00:55:32.480> was<00:55:32.760> killed<00:55:33.079> and<00:55:33.280> one<00:55:33.400> of<00:55:33.559> his

00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:42.440
sons<00:55:34.200> was<00:55:34.599> killed,<00:55:35.599> and<00:55:35.760> he<00:55:35.920> had<00:55:36.039> a<00:55:36.200> near-death<00:55:37.400> experience,<00:55:38.400> and,<00:55:38.880> um,<00:55:39.839> so<00:55:40.640> this<00:55:40.920> affected<00:55:41.359> him<00:55:41.599> very<00:55:41.880> deeply.

00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:51.359
And<00:55:42.680> he<00:55:42.880> was,<00:55:43.440> he<00:55:43.559> was<00:55:43.799> writing<00:55:44.280> up<00:55:45.039> this<00:55:45.280> experience.<00:55:45.760> He<00:55:45.920> lost<00:55:46.240> a<00:55:46.720> leg<00:55:47.720> and,<00:55:48.240> uh,<00:55:48.680> just,<00:55:49.119> just<00:55:49.280> a<00:55:49.520> terrible<00:55:50.480> tragedy.

00:55:51.359 --> 00:55:59.599
And<00:55:52.240> so<00:55:53.079> he,<00:55:54.520> um,<00:55:55.520> he,<00:55:57.720> um,<00:55:58.720> he's,<00:55:59.079> when<00:55:59.200> I<00:55:59.359> met

00:55:59.599 --> 00:56:08.240
him<00:55:59.839> several<00:56:00.200> years<00:56:00.400> ago,<00:56:00.720> he<00:56:00.839> was<00:56:01.039> writing<00:56:01.599> this<00:56:01.880> up,<00:56:02.240> which<00:56:02.359> I<00:56:02.559> encouraged<00:56:03.079> him<00:56:03.240> to<00:56:03.480> do<00:56:04.359> because<00:56:04.520> I<00:56:04.640> think<00:56:04.880> that's<00:56:05.079> how<00:56:05.240> artists<00:56:05.799> process<00:56:06.400> things,<00:56:06.839> right?<00:56:07.640> So

00:56:08.240 --> 00:56:16.920
then<00:56:08.920> about<00:56:09.280> four<00:56:09.599> years<00:56:09.880> ago,<00:56:10.200> he<00:56:10.359> sent<00:56:10.599> me<00:56:10.799> the<00:56:11.160> manuscript,<00:56:12.160> which<00:56:12.400> he<00:56:12.520> had<00:56:12.720> done,<00:56:13.200> done<00:56:13.440> on<00:56:13.920> this,<00:56:14.920> and<00:56:15.799> was<00:56:16.119> very<00:56:16.400> good

00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:25.440
manuscript.<00:56:17.799> Then<00:56:17.920> he<00:56:18.079> called<00:56:18.319> me<00:56:18.520> back<00:56:18.720> a<00:56:18.880> couple<00:56:19.119> of<00:56:19.240> weeks<00:56:19.559> later,<00:56:20.400> and<00:56:20.520> he<00:56:20.680> said<00:56:21.079> that,<00:56:21.599> um,<00:56:22.520> in<00:56:23.520> writing<00:56:24.000> his<00:56:24.200> manuscript,<00:56:24.880> he<00:56:25.039> realized

00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:34.039
that<00:56:25.559> he<00:56:25.760> pretty<00:56:25.920> much<00:56:26.160> had,<00:56:26.400> had<00:56:26.559> to,<00:56:27.119> um,<00:56:27.680> mention<00:56:28.079> the<00:56:28.240> name<00:56:28.559> of<00:56:28.760> the<00:56:28.920> trauma<00:56:29.440> surgeon<00:56:29.920> who<00:56:30.160> saved<00:56:30.599> his<00:56:30.920> life,<00:56:31.640> but<00:56:31.760> he<00:56:31.960> hadn't<00:56:32.240> told<00:56:32.559> the<00:56:32.720> trauma<00:56:33.160> surgeon<00:56:33.680> about

00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:42.359
this<00:56:34.920> because<00:56:35.559> patients<00:56:36.039> generally<00:56:36.400> don't<00:56:36.680> tell<00:56:37.000> their<00:56:37.240> doctors<00:56:37.720> for<00:56:38.039> obvious<00:56:38.559> reasons,<00:56:39.559> so<00:56:39.920> he<00:56:40.160> telephoned<00:56:40.839> the<00:56:41.039> doctor<00:56:42.039> and

00:56:42.359 --> 00:56:50.839
asked,<00:56:43.079> invited<00:56:43.520> him<00:56:43.640> to<00:56:43.880> lunch,<00:56:44.839> and<00:56:44.960> when<00:56:45.200> the<00:56:45.400> doctor<00:56:45.880> came,<00:56:46.680> he<00:56:46.839> told<00:56:47.160> him<00:56:47.359> the<00:56:47.520> near-death<00:56:48.160> experience<00:56:48.680> he<00:56:48.920> had<00:56:49.079> during<00:56:49.359> the<00:56:49.559> surgery,<00:56:50.400> whereupon

00:56:50.839 --> 00:56:59.039
he<00:56:50.960> said<00:56:51.240> the<00:56:51.400> surgeon<00:56:51.960> became<00:56:52.480> very,<00:56:53.160> um,<00:56:54.160> solemn<00:56:55.160> and<00:56:55.440> said,<00:56:56.359> "Well,<00:56:56.520> I've<00:56:56.720> never<00:56:56.960> told<00:56:57.280> anybody<00:56:57.839> this,<00:56:58.119> but<00:56:58.400> that<00:56:58.599> night<00:56:58.839> you

00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:07.480
came<00:56:59.280> into<00:56:59.599> the<00:56:59.839> hospital,<00:57:00.599> I<00:57:00.720> knew<00:57:00.960> you<00:57:01.119> weren't<00:57:01.440> going<00:57:01.680> to<00:57:01.960> die<00:57:02.680> because<00:57:03.000> I<00:57:03.200> talked<00:57:03.520> to<00:57:03.720> your<00:57:04.000> wife<00:57:04.520> in<00:57:04.720> the<00:57:04.960> operating<00:57:06.039> room,"<00:57:07.039> so

00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:16.359
who<00:57:07.640> had<00:57:08.119> been<00:57:08.400> killed<00:57:08.720> in<00:57:08.920> the<00:57:09.200> accident,<00:57:10.039> and<00:57:10.160> so<00:57:10.359> I<00:57:10.440> think<00:57:10.680> that<00:57:10.799> would<00:57:10.960> be<00:57:11.079> a<00:57:11.319> case<00:57:11.640> that<00:57:12.119> fits<00:57:12.599> that<00:57:12.760> in<00:57:12.920> a<00:57:13.079> way<00:57:13.359> that<00:57:14.119> the,<00:57:15.119> the<00:57:15.359> doctor<00:57:16.200> had

00:57:16.359 --> 00:57:24.599
an<00:57:16.680> experience<00:57:17.480> with<00:57:17.720> the<00:57:18.440> patient's<00:57:19.039> dead<00:57:19.400> wife<00:57:19.760> during<00:57:20.039> the<00:57:20.280> surgery.<00:57:21.400> Similar,<00:57:22.400> yeah,<00:57:23.200> and<00:57:23.359> as<00:57:23.720> I<00:57:23.880> think<00:57:24.119> about<00:57:24.440> this,

00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:33.520
I'll<00:57:24.920> probably<00:57:25.240> think<00:57:25.440> of<00:57:25.640> others,<00:57:26.039> but<00:57:27.839> again,<00:57:28.079> I'm<00:57:28.240> sorry<00:57:28.520> that<00:57:28.720> this<00:57:28.839> is<00:57:29.000> sort<00:57:29.200> of<00:57:29.400> off<00:57:29.680> the<00:57:29.880> cuff<00:57:30.240> tonight,<00:57:30.880> but,<00:57:31.520> um,<00:57:32.520> hope<00:57:32.799> we

00:57:33.520 --> 00:57:49.440
all<00:57:34.640> so<00:57:35.640> looking<00:57:35.960> forward<00:57:36.359> to<00:57:36.559> being<00:57:36.880> with<00:57:37.079> you<00:57:37.359> this<00:57:37.599> week,<00:57:38.160> and,<00:57:38.599> uh,<00:57:39.119> thank<00:57:39.319> you<00:57:39.480> so<00:57:39.720> much<00:57:40.000> again<00:57:40.240> for<00:57:40.520> having<00:57:40.839> me.<00:57:42.250> [Applause]

00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:51.440
Here.

```