> ## Content Index
> Fetch the complete content index at: https://famouspsychicmediums.com/llms.txt
> Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further.

# Can the Dying See the Other Side? A Hospice Doctor’s Remarkable Findings
- URL: https://famouspsychicmediums.com/episodes/can-the-dying-see-the-other-side-a-hospice-doctors-remarkable-findings/
- Published: 2026-08-21T14:37:38.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-21T14:37:38.000Z
- Description: Discover the comforting reality of end-of-life experiences with hospice doctor Dr. Chris Kerr, who shares how vivid visitations from deceased loved ones help the dying find peace, forgiveness, and closure in their final days.
- Author: Ian Ross
- Tags: Science

In this episode, Oprah sits down with neurobiologist and hospice doctor Dr. Chris Kerr to discuss his groundbreaking research on end-of-life experiences. Dr. Kerr, who has witnessed thousands of deaths, explains that dying is a progressive state of sleep where patients often experience vivid, comforting visitations from deceased loved ones. These experiences are not typical dreams; they feel incredibly real, lack symbolic metaphors, and provide profound comfort and closure to those preparing to pass.

Dr. Kerr shares moving stories from his research, including the transformative power of end-of-life visions for both adults and children. He explains how children often see deceased pets or create safe imaginary spaces, while adults frequently reunite with those who nurtured them most. The episode also features Julie, the daughter of a former patient named Jean, who describes her mother's peaceful visitations and a remarkable moment of terminal lucidity just before she passed.

Ultimately, Dr. Kerr emphasizes that these experiences help individuals address life in its entirety, healing long-held psychic wounds and resolving regrets. By reframing death as a natural transition filled with love and connection, Dr. Kerr's work offers hope and comfort to caregivers and families, illustrating that love is what truly endures at the end of life.

### Key takeaways

- End-of-life experiences are distinct from typical dreams, characterized by extreme realism, clarity, and the absence of complex symbolism.
- Visitations almost always feature deceased loved ones who provided the most nurture and security, offering a sense of final justice and comfort.
- Children experience end-of-life visions differently, often seeing deceased pets or creating comforting, safe spaces like castles.
- Even distressing dreams can be highly transformative, allowing patients to seek forgiveness and heal deep psychological wounds before passing.
- Terminal lucidity is a documented phenomenon where unresponsive patients suddenly wake up, alert and present, to say their final goodbyes.
- Dying is a process of progressive sleep that requires both physical comfort and psychological peace to occur naturally.

### Highlights

- 0:13 — The reality of end-of-life visitations
- 5:45 — How comfort increases closer to death
- 8:40 — Why patients reject the term "dream"
- 11:00 — How children navigate dying differently
- 14:35 — Healing through forgiveness at the end of life
- 19:57 — Understanding terminal lucidity in patients
- 25:50 — Love as the enduring force in death

```chapters
00:00:00 Introduction to End-of-Life Experiences
00:03:04 The Nature of the Dying Process
00:06:12 How Dreams Change Near Death
00:08:12 Why They Are Not Just Dreams
00:09:55 End-of-Life Experiences in Children
00:13:34 The Story of Dwayne and Forgiveness
00:15:31 Jean's Visitations and Terminal Lucidity
00:22:23 Healing Psychic Wounds at Life's End
00:24:00 Redefining How We Approach Death
```

```vtt
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<00:03:47.293> also<00:03:47.507> ready.<00:03:47.720> People<00:03:47.933> don't<00:03:48.147> die<00:03:48.360> in<00:03:48.573> a<00:03:48.787> wake<00:03:49.000> state,<00:03:49.213> they<00:03:49.427> die<00:03:49.640> in<00:03:49.853> the<00:03:50.067> depths<00:03:50.280> of<00:03:50.493> sleep,<00:03:50.707> and<00:03:50.920> you<00:03:51.133> can't<00:03:51.347> get<00:03:51.560> there<00:03:51.773> unless<00:03:51.987> you're<00:03:52.200> comfortable.

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And<00:03:53.791> everybody<00:03:54.063> seems<00:03:54.334> to<00:03:54.606> have<00:03:54.877> a<00:03:55.149> understanding<00:03:55.420> of<00:03:55.691> that<00:03:55.963> from<00:03:56.234> a<00:03:56.506> physical<00:03:56.777> perspective,<00:03:57.049> <00:03:57.320> Mhm.

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<00:03:58.244> but<00:03:58.609> psychologically,<00:03:58.973> existentially,<00:03:59.338> you<00:03:59.702> also<00:04:00.067> have<00:04:00.431> to<00:04:00.796> find<00:04:01.160> peace.

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<00:04:01.942> And<00:04:02.204> here's<00:04:02.465> what<00:04:02.727> you<00:04:02.989> write<00:04:03.251> on<00:04:03.513> page<00:04:03.775> 13.<00:04:04.036> I<00:04:04.298> appreciated<00:04:04.560> this.

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End-of-life<00:04:05.440> experiences<00:04:06.680> testify<00:04:07.360> to<00:04:07.560> our<00:04:07.720> greatest<00:04:08.240> needs<00:04:09.640> to<00:04:09.760> love<00:04:10.680> and<00:04:10.800> be<00:04:11.000> loved,<00:04:12.480> to<00:04:12.560> be<00:04:12.920> nurtured

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and<00:04:14.200> feel<00:04:14.400> connected,<00:04:15.840> to<00:04:15.920> be<00:04:16.079> remembered<00:04:17.640> and<00:04:17.799> forgiven.

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They<00:04:19.560> provide<00:04:20.040> continuity<00:04:20.880> between<00:04:22.280> and<00:04:22.480> across<00:04:23.160> lives.

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Based<00:04:24.720> on<00:04:24.840> the<00:04:24.960> content<00:04:25.480> of<00:04:25.600> these<00:04:25.919> dreams,<00:04:26.400> it's<00:04:26.640> obvious<00:04:27.440> that<00:04:27.640> the<00:04:27.760> forgiveness<00:04:28.880> and<00:04:29.120> love<00:04:29.520> that<00:04:29.720> count<00:04:30.040> the<00:04:30.120> most<00:04:31.040> come<00:04:31.280> from<00:04:31.480> family.

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And<00:04:32.640> you've<00:04:32.760> seen<00:04:32.960> this<00:04:33.120> over<00:04:33.360> and<00:04:33.480> over<00:04:33.600> and<00:04:33.720> over<00:04:33.840> and<00:04:33.960> over.<00:04:34.480> What<00:04:34.640> are<00:04:34.720> some<00:04:34.960> of<00:04:35.000> the<00:04:35.200> end-of-life<00:04:36.080> experiences<00:04:36.960> or<00:04:37.080> dream<00:04:37.400> experiences<00:04:38.080> that<00:04:38.240> your<00:04:38.880> dying<00:04:39.320> patients

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have<00:04:40.000> told<00:04:40.320> you<00:04:40.440> about?<00:04:40.960> What<00:04:41.200> impact<00:04:42.080> do<00:04:42.320> they<00:04:42.520> have<00:04:42.960> on<00:04:43.720> them<00:04:44.160> and<00:04:44.440> also<00:04:44.880> on<00:04:45.040> their<00:04:45.200> family<00:04:45.600> members?

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<00:04:46.640> When<00:04:46.880> we<00:04:47.120> measured<00:04:47.360> this<00:04:47.600> with<00:04:47.840> patients<00:04:48.080> and<00:04:48.320> we'd<00:04:48.560> give<00:04:48.800> them<00:04:49.040> a<00:04:49.280> questionnaire<00:04:49.520> every<00:04:49.760> day<00:04:50.000> before<00:04:50.240> death,<00:04:50.480> and<00:04:50.720> they<00:04:50.960> had<00:04:51.200> a<00:04:51.440> menu<00:04:51.680> list<00:04:51.920> to<00:04:52.160> choose<00:04:52.400> from.

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The<00:04:53.120> most<00:04:53.360> common<00:04:53.720> thing<00:04:54.080> they<00:04:54.240> would<00:04:54.400> dream<00:04:54.720> about<00:04:55.080> is<00:04:55.200> seeing<00:04:55.440> their<00:04:55.600> deceased<00:04:56.080> loved<00:04:56.360> ones.

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And<00:04:57.320> it<00:04:57.440> wasn't<00:04:57.680> just<00:04:57.840> anybody.<00:04:58.520> It<00:04:58.640> was<00:04:58.840> those<00:04:59.240> that<00:04:59.440> loved<00:04:59.760> and<00:04:59.919> secured<00:05:00.360> them<00:05:00.480> most.

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<00:05:01.480> Mhm.<00:05:01.760> <00:05:02.040> So,<00:05:02.320> there's<00:05:02.600> almost<00:05:02.880> this<00:05:03.160> form<00:05:03.440> of<00:05:03.720> final<00:05:04.000> justice.

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If<00:05:04.800> somebody<00:05:05.480> withheld<00:05:06.000> love,<00:05:06.840> one<00:05:07.080> parent,<00:05:07.800> they<00:05:08.000> were<00:05:08.240> excluded,<00:05:09.200> but<00:05:09.360> the<00:05:09.480> one<00:05:09.680> who<00:05:09.840> nurtured<00:05:10.600> and<00:05:10.800> loved<00:05:11.080> and<00:05:11.200> secured<00:05:12.120> was<00:05:12.360> included.

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Um<00:05:13.919> maybe<00:05:14.240> one<00:05:14.480> sibling<00:05:14.880> and<00:05:15.000> not<00:05:15.200> two.

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We<00:05:16.160> even<00:05:16.400> had<00:05:16.560> people<00:05:16.880> who<00:05:16.960> had<00:05:17.120> multiple<00:05:17.600> spouses.

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They<00:05:18.542> loved<00:05:18.764> the<00:05:18.987> second,<00:05:19.209> not<00:05:19.431> one<00:05:19.653> and<00:05:19.876> three.<00:05:20.098> <00:05:20.320> Mhm.

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<00:05:20.905> The<00:05:21.209> second<00:05:21.514> one<00:05:21.818> appears.<00:05:22.123> <00:05:22.428> Mhm.<00:05:22.732> <00:05:23.037> So,<00:05:23.342> it's<00:05:23.646> very<00:05:23.951> conditioned<00:05:24.255> on<00:05:24.560> that.

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<00:05:25.387> The<00:05:25.573> people<00:05:25.760> show<00:05:25.947> up<00:05:26.133> who<00:05:26.320> loved<00:05:26.507> you<00:05:26.693> the<00:05:26.880> most.

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<00:05:27.273> Yes.<00:05:27.585> And<00:05:27.898> and<00:05:28.210> and<00:05:28.523> had<00:05:28.835> a<00:05:29.148> pivotal<00:05:29.460> role<00:05:29.773> in<00:05:30.085> in<00:05:30.398> the<00:05:30.710> formation<00:05:31.023> of<00:05:31.335> who<00:05:31.648> you<00:05:31.960> were.

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<00:05:32.938> Wow.<00:05:33.236> <00:05:33.535> And<00:05:33.833> in<00:05:34.131> that<00:05:34.429> sense,<00:05:34.727> in<00:05:35.025> the<00:05:35.324> end,<00:05:35.622> there's<00:05:35.920> this<00:05:36.218> you're<00:05:36.516> almost<00:05:36.815> put<00:05:37.113> back<00:05:37.411> together<00:05:37.709> by<00:05:38.007> being<00:05:38.305> brought<00:05:38.604> back<00:05:38.902> to<00:05:39.200> family.

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<00:05:40.240> And<00:05:40.520> also,<00:05:40.800> it's<00:05:41.079> so<00:05:41.359> comforting.<00:05:41.639> <00:05:41.919> Overwhelmingly.

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88%<00:05:44.480> rated<00:05:44.800> them<00:05:44.960> comforting.

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And<00:05:46.000> in<00:05:46.080> the<00:05:46.160> dying<00:05:46.440> process,<00:05:47.040> was<00:05:47.200> fascinating.<00:05:47.760> The<00:05:47.840> closer<00:05:48.240> they<00:05:48.400> got<00:05:48.680> to<00:05:48.800> death,<00:05:49.320> the<00:05:49.440> more<00:05:49.760> likely<00:05:50.160> they<00:05:50.320> were<00:05:50.480> to<00:05:50.600> see<00:05:50.800> the<00:05:50.920> deceased<00:05:51.440> who<00:05:51.560> had<00:05:51.720> passed.

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And<00:05:52.880> those<00:05:53.160> were<00:05:53.240> the<00:05:53.360> ones<00:05:53.840> when<00:05:54.120> they<00:05:54.200> were<00:05:54.320> measured<00:05:54.640> on<00:05:54.800> comfort<00:05:55.280> gave<00:05:55.480> them<00:05:55.560> the<00:05:55.640> greatest<00:05:55.920> comfort.

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So<00:05:57.080> there's<00:05:57.280> this<00:05:57.520> built-in<00:05:58.040> process<00:05:58.960> as<00:05:59.160> they<00:05:59.280> get<00:05:59.480> close<00:05:59.800> to<00:05:59.960> death,<00:06:00.240> they're<00:06:00.400> ever<00:06:00.640> more<00:06:00.880> comforting.

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Really<00:06:02.760> what's<00:06:03.000> happening<00:06:03.680> is<00:06:03.920> the<00:06:04.040> life<00:06:04.320> gets<00:06:04.560> affirmed.

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Um<00:06:06.280> and<00:06:06.440> none<00:06:06.600> of<00:06:06.680> these<00:06:06.880> deny<00:06:07.200> death.<00:06:08.160> They<00:06:08.240> just<00:06:08.480> affirm<00:06:08.880> life<00:06:09.280> and<00:06:09.440> in<00:06:09.560> doing<00:06:09.880> so<00:06:10.520> lessen<00:06:10.880> the<00:06:11.000> fear<00:06:11.240> of<00:06:11.360> dying.

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<00:06:12.393> Your<00:06:12.785> research<00:06:13.178> shows<00:06:13.571> that<00:06:13.964> our<00:06:14.356> dreams<00:06:14.749> change<00:06:15.142> as<00:06:15.535> we<00:06:15.927> near<00:06:16.320> death.

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<00:06:17.238> Yeah.<00:06:17.517> And<00:06:17.795> the<00:06:18.074> really<00:06:18.352> the<00:06:18.631> the<00:06:18.909> question<00:06:19.188> about<00:06:19.466> came<00:06:19.745> because<00:06:20.023> the<00:06:20.302> nurses<00:06:20.580> that<00:06:20.858> I<00:06:21.137> was<00:06:21.415> working<00:06:21.694> with<00:06:21.972> at<00:06:22.251> hospice<00:06:22.529> were<00:06:22.808> so<00:06:23.086> able<00:06:23.365> to<00:06:23.643> predict<00:06:23.922> or<00:06:24.200> prognosticate.

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And<00:06:25.880> I<00:06:25.960> had<00:06:26.120> no<00:06:26.280> clue.<00:06:26.960> I<00:06:27.000> mean<00:06:27.120> this<00:06:27.280> is<00:06:27.360> not<00:06:27.600> something<00:06:27.880> you<00:06:27.960> learn<00:06:28.160> in<00:06:28.240> medical<00:06:28.640> school.

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<00:06:29.240> That's<00:06:29.480> exactly<00:06:29.720> what<00:06:29.960> happened<00:06:30.199> when<00:06:30.439> my<00:06:30.679> father<00:06:30.919> passed.

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The<00:06:32.200> doctors<00:06:32.720> were<00:06:32.800> saying<00:06:33.120> one<00:06:33.280> thing<00:06:33.760> and<00:06:33.919> the<00:06:34.040> hospice<00:06:34.560> nurse<00:06:34.880> said,<00:06:35.560> "Your<00:06:35.720> father's<00:06:36.120> going<00:06:36.280> to<00:06:36.400> leave<00:06:37.160> this<00:06:37.640> world<00:06:38.400> within<00:06:38.680> a<00:06:38.720> week."

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<00:06:39.767> Yeah.<00:06:39.975> <00:06:40.182> And<00:06:40.389> the<00:06:40.596> doctors<00:06:40.804> were<00:06:41.011> saying<00:06:41.218> he<00:06:41.425> had<00:06:41.633> months<00:06:41.840> to<00:06:42.047> live<00:06:42.255> and<00:06:42.462> other<00:06:42.669> family<00:06:42.876> members<00:06:43.084> were<00:06:43.291> saying,<00:06:43.498> "The<00:06:43.705> doctors<00:06:43.913> are<00:06:44.120> saying."

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But<00:06:44.440> the<00:06:44.520> hospice<00:06:45.000> nurse<00:06:45.520> said<00:06:45.760> to<00:06:45.840> me,<00:06:46.840> "You<00:06:47.000> need<00:06:47.160> to<00:06:47.240> stick<00:06:47.480> around<00:06:47.800> cuz<00:06:47.919> your<00:06:48.040> father's<00:06:48.400> going<00:06:48.560> to<00:06:48.640> be<00:06:48.760> gone<00:06:49.280> within<00:06:49.560> a<00:06:49.600> week."

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Yes.<00:06:50.084> <00:06:50.408> And<00:06:50.732> that's<00:06:51.057> really<00:06:51.381> what<00:06:51.705> propelled<00:06:52.029> us.<00:06:52.353> It<00:06:52.677> was<00:06:53.002> It<00:06:53.326> was<00:06:53.650> humbling<00:06:53.974> to<00:06:54.298> be<00:06:54.622> consistently<00:06:54.947> put<00:06:55.271> in<00:06:55.595> my<00:06:55.919> place.

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And<00:06:57.160> you<00:06:57.240> know,<00:06:57.400> it's<00:06:57.880> the<00:06:58.000> inability<00:06:58.560> to<00:06:58.680> recognize<00:06:59.240> dying<00:06:59.600> in<00:06:59.680> totality.

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So<00:07:00.760> in<00:07:00.960> medicine<00:07:01.400> you<00:07:01.520> think<00:07:01.760> of<00:07:01.919> dying<00:07:02.240> in<00:07:02.360> terms<00:07:02.600> of<00:07:02.720> organ<00:07:03.080> systems<00:07:03.520> and<00:07:03.640> failure.

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<00:07:04.564> Yeah.<00:07:04.768> <00:07:04.972> And<00:07:05.176> people<00:07:05.380> die<00:07:05.584> in<00:07:05.788> whole,<00:07:05.992> not<00:07:06.196> in<00:07:06.400> parts.

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And<00:07:07.760> the<00:07:07.840> people<00:07:08.120> at<00:07:08.200> the<00:07:08.280> bedside,<00:07:09.120> the<00:07:09.200> nurses,<00:07:09.680> pastoral<00:07:10.160> care,<00:07:10.560> they<00:07:10.720> could<00:07:10.960> see<00:07:11.200> this<00:07:11.800> for<00:07:11.919> what<00:07:12.040> it<00:07:12.120> was.

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<00:07:12.749> see<00:07:12.939> it<00:07:13.128> coming.<00:07:13.317> <00:07:13.507> Yeah.<00:07:13.696> <00:07:13.885> Yeah,<00:07:14.075> cuz<00:07:14.264> she<00:07:14.453> said<00:07:14.643> all<00:07:14.832> the<00:07:15.021> signs<00:07:15.211> are<00:07:15.400> there.

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<00:07:16.079> Yes,<00:07:16.239> very<00:07:16.399> much.<00:07:16.559> <00:07:16.720> That<00:07:16.880> he's<00:07:17.040> on<00:07:17.200> his<00:07:17.360> way<00:07:17.520> out.

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<00:07:18.240> Yep.<00:07:18.520> <00:07:18.800> Yeah.<00:07:19.080> And<00:07:19.360> what<00:07:19.640> are<00:07:19.920> those<00:07:20.200> signs?<00:07:20.480> Actually,<00:07:20.760> what<00:07:21.040> we're<00:07:21.320> talking<00:07:21.600> about<00:07:21.880> when<00:07:22.160> you<00:07:22.440> start<00:07:22.720> to<00:07:23.000> have<00:07:23.280> visions<00:07:23.560> of<00:07:23.840> people<00:07:24.120> who<00:07:24.400> have<00:07:24.680> passed<00:07:24.960> away.

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<00:07:25.883> Yes.<00:07:26.047> <00:07:26.210> That's<00:07:26.373> a<00:07:26.537> sign<00:07:26.700> that<00:07:26.863> you're<00:07:27.027> very<00:07:27.190> close<00:07:27.353> to<00:07:27.517> the<00:07:27.680> end.

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<00:07:28.688> So<00:07:28.896> the<00:07:29.104> again,<00:07:29.312> that's<00:07:29.520> happening<00:07:29.728> in<00:07:29.936> the<00:07:30.144> context<00:07:30.352> of<00:07:30.560> sleep.

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So<00:07:31.320> you're<00:07:31.440> sleeping<00:07:32.000> more<00:07:32.760> and<00:07:32.960> within<00:07:33.400> the<00:07:33.480> sleep<00:07:33.880> state<00:07:34.640> more<00:07:34.919> and<00:07:35.040> more<00:07:35.240> you're<00:07:35.520> immersed<00:07:36.200> in<00:07:36.320> these<00:07:36.560> experiences.

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<00:07:38.030> that<00:07:38.300> a<00:07:38.570> beautiful<00:07:38.840> thing<00:07:39.110> to<00:07:39.380> know<00:07:39.650> that<00:07:39.920> the<00:07:40.190> people<00:07:40.460> who<00:07:40.730> have<00:07:41.000> loved<00:07:41.270> you<00:07:41.540> here<00:07:41.810> on<00:07:42.080> earth<00:07:42.350> come<00:07:42.620> back<00:07:42.890> and<00:07:43.160> visit<00:07:43.430> you<00:07:43.700> through<00:07:43.970> your<00:07:44.240> dreams<00:07:44.510> in<00:07:44.780> order<00:07:45.050> to<00:07:45.320> help

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the<00:07:45.726> transition<00:07:45.931> to<00:07:46.137> the<00:07:46.343> other<00:07:46.549> side.<00:07:46.754> <00:07:46.960> You<00:07:47.166> know,<00:07:47.371> it's<00:07:47.577> a<00:07:47.783> really<00:07:47.989> better<00:07:48.194> story,<00:07:48.400> right?

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That<00:07:49.560> um<00:07:49.960> for<00:07:50.640> for<00:07:50.800> being<00:07:51.080> loved<00:07:51.320> or<00:07:51.400> loved<00:07:51.800> and<00:07:51.920> having<00:07:52.240> mattered,<00:07:52.760> those<00:07:53.080> things<00:07:53.480> are<00:07:53.600> still<00:07:53.880> there<00:07:54.160> for<00:07:54.360> you.

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They're<00:07:55.080> tangent<00:07:55.680> to<00:07:55.880> you,<00:07:56.080> they're<00:07:56.240> proximate,<00:07:57.440> and<00:07:57.680> time<00:07:58.040> and<00:07:58.160> distance<00:07:58.640> seem<00:07:58.880> to<00:07:59.080> go<00:07:59.240> away.

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<00:08:00.169> Yeah.<00:08:00.417> <00:08:00.666> So,<00:08:00.915> you<00:08:01.163> can<00:08:01.412> be<00:08:01.661> 95<00:08:01.910> years<00:08:02.158> old,<00:08:02.407> um<00:08:02.656> lost<00:08:02.904> your<00:08:03.153> mother<00:08:03.402> when<00:08:03.650> you<00:08:03.899> were<00:08:04.148> five,<00:08:04.397> but<00:08:04.645> it's<00:08:04.894> her<00:08:05.143> voice<00:08:05.391> you<00:08:05.640> hear.

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You<00:08:06.440> smell<00:08:06.760> the<00:08:06.880> perfume.<00:08:07.960> You're<00:08:08.120> put<00:08:08.360> back<00:08:08.600> together.

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And<00:08:10.280> again,<00:08:10.680> this<00:08:10.880> feels<00:08:11.120> virtual<00:08:11.600> to<00:08:11.760> the<00:08:11.840> patient.

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It<00:08:12.838> feels<00:08:13.155> real.<00:08:13.473> <00:08:13.790> You<00:08:14.108> prefer<00:08:14.426> the<00:08:14.743> phrase<00:08:15.061> end-of-life<00:08:15.378> experience<00:08:15.696> rather<00:08:16.013> than<00:08:16.331> dream<00:08:16.649> when<00:08:16.966> we're<00:08:17.284> talking<00:08:17.601> about<00:08:17.919> that.

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Why<00:08:18.600> have<00:08:18.760> you<00:08:18.919> come<00:08:19.160> to<00:08:19.280> believe<00:08:19.640> that<00:08:20.160> dream<00:08:20.600> is<00:08:20.760> an<00:08:21.080> inadequate<00:08:22.040> term<00:08:22.400> for<00:08:22.560> this<00:08:23.120> or<00:08:23.240> description<00:08:23.880> for<00:08:24.040> this?

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<00:08:24.451> Yeah,<00:08:24.742> you<00:08:25.033> know,<00:08:25.324> I<00:08:25.615> think<00:08:25.905> in<00:08:26.196> part<00:08:26.487> um<00:08:26.778> it's<00:08:27.069> because<00:08:27.360> our<00:08:27.651> job<00:08:27.942> was<00:08:28.233> to<00:08:28.524> translate<00:08:28.815> the<00:08:29.105> words<00:08:29.396> and<00:08:29.687> experiences<00:08:29.978> of<00:08:30.269> our<00:08:30.560> patients.

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And<00:08:31.560> what<00:08:31.720> they<00:08:31.880> tell<00:08:32.240> us<00:08:32.560> is<00:08:32.960> typically,<00:08:33.400> "I<00:08:33.440> don't<00:08:33.680> normally<00:08:34.039> dream.

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Um<00:08:35.400> I<00:08:35.680> I<00:08:35.760> don't<00:08:36.039> remember<00:08:36.440> my<00:08:36.640> dream.

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No,<00:08:37.280> no,<00:08:37.520> this<00:08:37.800> was<00:08:37.919> different.<00:08:38.240> This<00:08:38.440> was<00:08:38.599> a<00:08:38.680> virtual<00:08:39.200> They<00:08:39.440> say<00:08:39.599> this<00:08:39.800> was<00:08:39.919> a<00:08:39.960> happening."

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Sometimes<00:08:41.039> they<00:08:41.080> actually<00:08:41.320> get<00:08:41.440> offended<00:08:41.960> when<00:08:42.120> you<00:08:42.240> imply<00:08:42.560> that<00:08:42.680> it<00:08:42.760> was<00:08:42.919> a<00:08:42.960> dream.

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<00:08:43.696> Because<00:08:43.913> it<00:08:44.130> was<00:08:44.347> a<00:08:44.563> visitation<00:08:44.780> for<00:08:44.997> them.<00:08:45.214> <00:08:45.431> Yeah,<00:08:45.648> it<00:08:45.865> was<00:08:46.082> very<00:08:46.299> It<00:08:46.516> was<00:08:46.732> very<00:08:46.949> real<00:08:47.166> very<00:08:47.383> very<00:08:47.600> real.

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And<00:08:48.400> they're<00:08:48.600> not<00:08:49.040> dream-like,<00:08:49.560> and<00:08:49.640> there's<00:08:49.839> not<00:08:50.120> symbolism,<00:08:50.760> they're<00:08:50.880> not<00:08:51.040> metaphor.

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Very<00:08:52.360> little<00:08:52.839> is<00:08:53.080> said<00:08:53.400> between<00:08:53.800> the<00:08:53.880> person<00:08:54.360> in<00:08:54.520> the<00:08:54.600> dream<00:08:54.960> and<00:08:55.040> the<00:08:55.120> dreamer,<00:08:55.800> but<00:08:55.960> everything<00:08:56.360> seems<00:08:56.680> to<00:08:56.760> be<00:08:56.880> understood.

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And<00:08:58.160> what<00:08:58.280> I<00:08:58.320> think<00:08:58.480> is<00:08:58.560> most<00:08:58.880> fascinating,<00:08:59.760> I've<00:08:59.839> been<00:08:59.960> doing<00:09:00.200> it<00:09:00.280> for<00:09:00.400> 27<00:09:01.080> years,<00:09:01.760> I've<00:09:01.920> never<00:09:02.200> had<00:09:02.480> a<00:09:02.520> patient<00:09:03.080> ask<00:09:03.400> me,<00:09:03.880> "What<00:09:04.000> do<00:09:04.080> you<00:09:04.120> think<00:09:04.320> this<00:09:04.520> means?"

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<00:09:05.585> Ah.<00:09:05.930> <00:09:06.275> So,<00:09:06.620> there's<00:09:06.965> no<00:09:07.310> space<00:09:07.655> for<00:09:08.000> analysis.

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<00:09:09.350> Cuz<00:09:09.540> they<00:09:09.730> know<00:09:09.920> what<00:09:10.110> it<00:09:10.300> means.<00:09:10.490> <00:09:10.680> Well,<00:09:10.870> if<00:09:11.060> you<00:09:11.250> saw<00:09:11.440> your<00:09:11.630> parent<00:09:11.820> that<00:09:12.010> you<00:09:12.200> lost<00:09:12.390> as<00:09:12.580> a<00:09:12.770> child,<00:09:12.960> you<00:09:13.150> don't<00:09:13.340> need<00:09:13.530> that<00:09:13.720> translated.

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<00:09:14.600> You<00:09:14.800> know<00:09:15.000> what<00:09:15.200> it<00:09:15.400> means.<00:09:15.600> <00:09:15.800> Yeah,<00:09:16.000> they're<00:09:16.200> not<00:09:16.400> looking<00:09:16.600> for<00:09:16.800> answers<00:09:17.000> to<00:09:17.200> questions<00:09:17.400> unanswered.

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And<00:09:18.346> <00:09:18.531> And<00:09:18.717> and<00:09:18.903> [clears<00:09:19.089> throat]<00:09:19.274> also<00:09:19.460> what's<00:09:19.646> important<00:09:19.831> that<00:09:20.017> you<00:09:20.203> write<00:09:20.389> here<00:09:20.574> and<00:09:20.760> also<00:09:20.946> just<00:09:21.131> said<00:09:21.317> here<00:09:21.503> is<00:09:21.689> that<00:09:21.874> it<00:09:22.060> doesn't<00:09:22.246> come<00:09:22.431> to<00:09:22.617> you<00:09:22.803> in<00:09:22.989> the<00:09:23.174> form<00:09:23.360> of

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symbolism.<00:09:23.808> <00:09:24.136> Yeah.<00:09:24.464> <00:09:24.792> Like<00:09:25.120> tornadoes,<00:09:25.448> and<00:09:25.776> what<00:09:26.104> does<00:09:26.432> tornadoes<00:09:26.760> symbolize?

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Disruption,<00:09:28.253> chaos.<00:09:28.747> <00:09:29.240> The<00:09:29.733> metaphors<00:09:30.227> aren't<00:09:30.720> there.

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<00:09:31.180> Metaphors<00:09:31.360> aren't<00:09:31.540> there.<00:09:31.720> <00:09:31.900> aren't<00:09:32.080> there.<00:09:32.260> <00:09:32.440> It's<00:09:32.620> just<00:09:32.800> real.

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<00:09:33.589> It's<00:09:33.937> based<00:09:34.286> on<00:09:34.634> real-life<00:09:34.983> happenings,<00:09:35.331> real-life<00:09:35.680> people.

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It's<00:09:36.320> recalled<00:09:36.760> with<00:09:37.000> absolute<00:09:37.360> clarity.<00:09:38.320> They're<00:09:38.640> they<00:09:38.760> have<00:09:38.920> heightened<00:09:39.240> acuity,<00:09:39.680> they<00:09:39.800> have<00:09:40.000> insight<00:09:40.480> into<00:09:40.680> these<00:09:40.920> experiences,<00:09:41.760> and<00:09:41.880> they<00:09:42.000> know<00:09:42.200> what<00:09:42.360> it<00:09:42.480> means

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without<00:09:43.040> a<00:09:43.080> translator.<00:09:44.360> And<00:09:44.440> if<00:09:44.560> you<00:09:44.680> think<00:09:44.960> about<00:09:45.280> it,<00:09:45.560> and<00:09:45.680> this<00:09:45.800> is<00:09:45.920> very<00:09:46.080> different<00:09:46.400> than<00:09:46.680> near<00:09:46.880> death<00:09:47.160> experiences,<00:09:48.200> they're<00:09:48.400> actually<00:09:48.760> dying.

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They<00:09:49.320> shouldn't<00:09:49.600> have<00:09:49.800> to<00:09:49.920> do<00:09:50.120> the<00:09:50.280> work<00:09:50.600> of<00:09:50.760> process.

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It<00:09:51.640> just<00:09:51.920> should<00:09:52.080> be<00:09:52.200> brought<00:09:52.600> to<00:09:52.800> them.<00:09:53.520> And<00:09:54.680> it's<00:09:54.840> understood.

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<00:09:56.136> So,<00:09:56.633> are<00:09:57.129> dreams<00:09:57.626> or<00:09:58.122> end-of-life<00:09:58.619> exper-<00:09:59.115> end-of-life<00:09:59.612> experiences,<00:10:00.108> these<00:10:00.605> end-of-life<00:10:01.101> [clears<00:10:01.598> throat]<00:10:02.094> visitations,<00:10:02.591> are<00:10:03.087> they<00:10:03.584> different<00:10:04.080> for

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a<00:10:04.320> child?<00:10:05.000> Because<00:10:05.240> a<00:10:05.280> child<00:10:06.600> who<00:10:07.240> is<00:10:07.600> dying<00:10:08.120> of<00:10:08.280> cancer<00:10:09.120> at<00:10:09.280> 6<00:10:09.520> or<00:10:09.600> 7<00:10:09.920> or<00:10:10.040> 8<00:10:10.160> years<00:10:10.440> old<00:10:11.120> hasn't<00:10:11.520> had<00:10:11.800> the<00:10:11.880> experience<00:10:12.400> of

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losing<00:10:13.040> people<00:10:13.480> in<00:10:13.640> life<00:10:14.000> who<00:10:14.560> have<00:10:14.720> gone<00:10:15.400> to<00:10:15.520> the<00:10:15.640> other<00:10:15.800> side<00:10:16.080> or<00:10:16.200> who<00:10:16.360> died.

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<00:10:17.462> Yeah,<00:10:17.843> children<00:10:18.225> do<00:10:18.606> all<00:10:18.988> this<00:10:19.369> differently.<00:10:19.751> Um<00:10:20.132> and<00:10:20.514> we<00:10:20.895> published<00:10:21.277> cases<00:10:21.658> over<00:10:22.040> this.

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They<00:10:22.800> don't<00:10:22.960> have<00:10:23.080> to<00:10:23.160> work<00:10:23.360> through<00:10:23.480> acceptance.<00:10:24.080> It<00:10:24.160> just<00:10:24.440> every<00:10:24.680> day<00:10:24.800> is<00:10:24.920> a<00:10:25.000> new.

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It<00:10:25.400> is<00:10:25.520> what<00:10:25.680> it<00:10:25.840> is.<00:10:26.520> So,<00:10:26.640> there's<00:10:26.800> a<00:10:26.880> factuality<00:10:27.680> about<00:10:28.000> it.

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They<00:10:28.560> don't<00:10:28.800> distinguish<00:10:29.280> between<00:10:29.600> the<00:10:29.680> imaginary<00:10:30.360> and<00:10:30.480> the<00:10:30.560> real<00:10:30.960> in<00:10:31.080> the<00:10:31.200> same<00:10:31.560> way.

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They<00:10:32.480> don't<00:10:32.680> have<00:10:32.840> language<00:10:33.240> for<00:10:33.360> mortality,<00:10:34.000> finality.

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Um<00:10:35.560> and<00:10:35.880> they<00:10:36.040> often<00:10:36.400> won't<00:10:36.640> know<00:10:36.840> somebody<00:10:37.320> who<00:10:37.600> has<00:10:37.960> died,<00:10:38.760> but<00:10:38.920> they<00:10:39.040> will<00:10:39.280> know<00:10:39.400> an<00:10:39.520> animal<00:10:40.720> that's<00:10:40.920> died,<00:10:41.200> whether<00:10:41.440> it's<00:10:41.640> theirs,<00:10:42.000> a<00:10:42.080> neighbor's,<00:10:42.560> a<00:10:42.640> grandparent's.

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And<00:10:44.080> the<00:10:44.160> symbolism<00:10:44.800> or<00:10:44.880> the<00:10:45.000> meaning<00:10:45.760> is<00:10:45.920> the<00:10:46.040> same.

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And<00:10:47.080> the<00:10:47.160> children<00:10:47.560> have<00:10:47.680> used<00:10:47.880> the<00:10:47.960> same<00:10:48.240> language,<00:10:48.920> which<00:10:49.160> is<00:10:49.360> that<00:10:49.680> I'm<00:10:49.839> not<00:10:50.040> alone<00:10:50.640> and<00:10:50.760> that<00:10:50.880> I'm<00:10:51.000> loved.

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<00:10:51.884> Right.<00:10:52.128> So,<00:10:52.372> the<00:10:52.616> animal<00:10:52.860> comes<00:10:53.104> back.<00:10:53.348> The<00:10:53.592> pet<00:10:53.836> comes<00:10:54.080> back.

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<00:10:54.523> same<00:10:54.766> same<00:10:55.009> meaning.<00:10:55.251> And<00:10:55.494> they<00:10:55.737> see<00:10:55.980> them<00:10:56.223> in<00:10:56.466> health,<00:10:56.709> and<00:10:56.951> they<00:10:57.194> see<00:10:57.437> them<00:10:57.680> well.

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You<00:10:58.920> know,<00:10:59.040> the<00:10:59.160> next<00:10:59.920> thing<00:11:00.120> that<00:11:00.240> they<00:11:00.360> really<00:11:00.560> often<00:11:00.920> have<00:11:01.160> to<00:11:01.320> address,<00:11:02.200> the<00:11:02.360> lesion<00:11:02.920> for<00:11:03.120> them<00:11:03.360> really<00:11:03.680> is<00:11:04.160> a<00:11:04.240> life<00:11:04.640> without<00:11:05.000> a<00:11:05.040> parent.

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And<00:11:06.520> in<00:11:06.640> many<00:11:06.920> cases,<00:11:07.600> somebody<00:11:08.080> else<00:11:08.360> comes<00:11:09.440> in<00:11:09.600> that<00:11:09.880> form.

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It<00:11:10.440> may<00:11:10.600> be<00:11:10.760> a<00:11:10.839> deceased<00:11:11.480> friend<00:11:11.839> of<00:11:11.920> the<00:11:12.040> family.

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<00:11:12.990> Mhm.<00:11:13.220> <00:11:13.450> And<00:11:13.680> they'll<00:11:13.910> often<00:11:14.140> build<00:11:14.370> a<00:11:14.600> world.

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We<00:11:15.040> had<00:11:15.280> a<00:11:15.320> young<00:11:15.600> lady<00:11:15.920> who<00:11:16.440> made<00:11:16.680> a<00:11:16.720> castle<00:11:17.240> for<00:11:17.400> herself,<00:11:17.880> and<00:11:18.000> she<00:11:18.120> was<00:11:18.280> in<00:11:18.480> the<00:11:18.560> castle.

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And<00:11:19.680> when<00:11:19.880> asked<00:11:20.120> what<00:11:20.280> it<00:11:20.400> was,<00:11:20.760> she<00:11:20.920> said<00:11:21.320> it<00:11:21.440> was<00:11:21.600> a<00:11:21.680> safe<00:11:22.000> place.

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<00:11:23.338> Wow.<00:11:23.675> <00:11:24.013> And<00:11:24.350> the<00:11:24.688> other<00:11:25.026> thing<00:11:25.363> is<00:11:25.701> very<00:11:26.038> clear<00:11:26.376> from<00:11:26.714> these<00:11:27.051> experiences<00:11:27.389> it<00:11:27.726> informs<00:11:28.064> them<00:11:28.402> in<00:11:28.739> a<00:11:29.077> way<00:11:29.414> that<00:11:29.752> we<00:11:30.090> don't<00:11:30.427> about<00:11:30.765> their<00:11:31.102> prognosis<00:11:31.440> and

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what<00:11:31.720> their<00:11:31.880> understanding<00:11:32.760> is.<00:11:33.000> So,<00:11:33.120> they<00:11:33.280> often<00:11:33.960> have<00:11:34.120> a<00:11:34.160> very<00:11:34.440> clear<00:11:34.760> understanding<00:11:35.320> that<00:11:35.440> they<00:11:35.640> are<00:11:35.880> at<00:11:35.960> the<00:11:36.080> end<00:11:36.240> of<00:11:36.320> their<00:11:36.480> life.

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<00:11:37.513> When<00:11:37.787> these<00:11:38.060> visitations<00:11:38.333> start<00:11:38.607> to<00:11:38.880> occur?

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<00:11:39.914> And<00:11:40.269> what's<00:11:40.623> been<00:11:40.977> fascinating<00:11:41.331> in<00:11:41.686> several<00:11:42.040> is<00:11:42.394> they've<00:11:42.749> known<00:11:43.103> but<00:11:43.457> they<00:11:43.811> haven't<00:11:44.166> disclosed<00:11:44.520> unless<00:11:44.874> asked<00:11:45.229> for<00:11:45.583> wanting<00:11:45.937> to<00:11:46.291> protect<00:11:46.646> their<00:11:47.000> parents.

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<00:11:47.889> What<00:11:48.138> does<00:11:48.388> it<00:11:48.637> do<00:11:48.886> for<00:11:49.135> you<00:11:49.385> and<00:11:49.634> the<00:11:49.883> people<00:11:50.132> who<00:11:50.382> work<00:11:50.631> with<00:11:50.880> you?

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First<00:11:51.920> of<00:11:52.000> all,<00:11:52.120> I<00:11:52.160> just<00:11:52.400> think<00:11:52.760> that<00:11:53.560> I<00:11:53.840> said<00:11:54.080> to<00:11:54.160> you<00:11:54.240> before<00:11:54.480> we<00:11:54.560> started<00:11:54.960> this<00:11:55.160> conversation,<00:11:56.160> you're<00:11:56.280> doing<00:11:56.560> the<00:11:56.680> Lord's<00:11:57.120> work<00:11:57.360> out<00:11:57.480> here,<00:11:57.640> Dr.

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Carr.<00:11:58.360> How<00:11:58.560> does<00:11:58.760> it<00:11:59.080> enhance<00:12:00.240> or<00:12:01.240> impact<00:12:01.800> your<00:12:02.080> life<00:12:02.920> to<00:12:03.080> be<00:12:03.280> around<00:12:03.960> so<00:12:04.160> much<00:12:04.480> death?

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<00:12:05.801> The<00:12:06.083> opposite<00:12:06.364> of<00:12:06.646> what<00:12:06.927> you'd<00:12:07.208> think.<00:12:07.490> I<00:12:07.771> think<00:12:08.052> um<00:12:08.334> when<00:12:08.615> I<00:12:08.897> start<00:12:09.178> doing<00:12:09.459> this<00:12:09.741> work,<00:12:10.022> I<00:12:10.303> I<00:12:10.585> would<00:12:10.866> not<00:12:11.148> want<00:12:11.429> to<00:12:11.710> say<00:12:11.992> I<00:12:12.273> This<00:12:12.554> is<00:12:12.836> what<00:12:13.117> I<00:12:13.399> do<00:12:13.680> for

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all<00:12:14.543> the<00:12:14.766> responses<00:12:14.989> that<00:12:15.211> we<00:12:15.434> get.<00:12:15.657> <00:12:15.880> Yeah.

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<00:12:16.400> And<00:12:16.600> people<00:12:16.800> out<00:12:17.000> there<00:12:17.200> assume<00:12:17.400> that<00:12:17.600> <00:12:17.800> assume,<00:12:18.000> "Oh,<00:12:18.200> that's<00:12:18.400> so<00:12:18.600> depressing."

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<00:12:19.463> Probably<00:12:19.766> depressing<00:12:20.069> or<00:12:20.371> you're<00:12:20.674> depressed.<00:12:20.977> <00:12:21.280> Mhm.

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<00:12:22.242> Um<00:12:22.523> and<00:12:22.805> in<00:12:23.086> fact,<00:12:23.368> if<00:12:23.649> you<00:12:23.931> came<00:12:24.212> to<00:12:24.494> where<00:12:24.775> we<00:12:25.057> are,<00:12:25.338> you<00:12:25.620> would<00:12:25.902> find<00:12:26.183> a<00:12:26.465> work<00:12:26.746> culture<00:12:27.028> and<00:12:27.309> a<00:12:27.591> camaraderie<00:12:27.872> that's<00:12:28.154> remarkable,<00:12:28.435> that's<00:12:28.717> uplifting,<00:12:28.998> that's<00:12:29.280> full

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of<00:12:29.600> humor.<00:12:30.320> Of<00:12:30.480> course,<00:12:30.760> there's<00:12:30.920> tragedy,<00:12:31.840> but<00:12:32.000> what<00:12:32.200> people<00:12:32.680> miss<00:12:33.080> is<00:12:33.320> we<00:12:33.440> see<00:12:33.640> the<00:12:33.760> very<00:12:34.000> best<00:12:34.320> of<00:12:34.400> humanity.

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We<00:12:35.480> see<00:12:35.640> caregivers<00:12:36.320> who<00:12:36.480> find<00:12:36.800> remarkable<00:12:37.400> strength<00:12:38.200> and<00:12:38.400> courage<00:12:39.440> and<00:12:39.680> love.

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We<00:12:40.720> see<00:12:40.839> people<00:12:41.120> whose<00:12:41.360> lives<00:12:41.760> stop<00:12:42.760> and<00:12:42.880> have<00:12:43.040> to<00:12:43.160> go<00:12:43.400> home<00:12:43.680> and<00:12:43.839> be<00:12:44.000> a<00:12:44.080> parent<00:12:44.480> to<00:12:44.560> their<00:12:44.800> parent.

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Uh<00:12:46.400> so,<00:12:46.640> we<00:12:46.800> see<00:12:47.480> we<00:12:47.600> see<00:12:47.920> a<00:12:48.040> form<00:12:48.520> of<00:12:48.760> love<00:12:49.320> that's<00:12:49.560> just<00:12:49.800> awe-inspiring.

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Uh<00:12:51.480> and<00:12:51.720> so,<00:12:52.000> I<00:12:52.080> think<00:12:52.360> we're<00:12:52.520> better<00:12:52.920> for<00:12:53.080> being<00:12:53.400> witnesses<00:12:53.920> to<00:12:54.080> all<00:12:54.240> this.

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<00:12:55.215> And<00:12:55.549> you<00:12:55.884> write<00:12:56.219> about,<00:12:56.554> you<00:12:56.888> know,<00:12:57.223> patients<00:12:57.558> and<00:12:57.893> not<00:12:58.227> only<00:12:58.562> write<00:12:58.897> about<00:12:59.232> patients,<00:12:59.566> but<00:12:59.901> you<00:13:00.236> filmed<00:13:00.571> thousands<00:13:00.905> of<00:13:01.240> patients.

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Why<00:13:02.294> did<00:13:02.549> you<00:13:02.803> film<00:13:03.057> them?<00:13:03.311> <00:13:03.566> Because<00:13:03.820> this<00:13:04.074> is<00:13:04.329> work<00:13:04.583> was<00:13:04.837> originally<00:13:05.091> meant<00:13:05.346> for<00:13:05.600> doctors.

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So,<00:13:06.240> it<00:13:06.400> came<00:13:06.680> out<00:13:06.839> of<00:13:06.920> frustration<00:13:07.640> in<00:13:07.760> trying<00:13:08.120> to<00:13:08.280> teach<00:13:08.600> young<00:13:08.839> doctors<00:13:09.400> that<00:13:09.520> the<00:13:09.640> patients<00:13:10.360> were<00:13:10.480> having<00:13:10.720> an<00:13:10.800> expe-<00:13:11.160> There's<00:13:11.320> more<00:13:11.520> to<00:13:11.560> dying<00:13:11.839> than<00:13:11.920> what<00:13:12.080> we<00:13:12.160> were

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seeing.<00:13:12.920> You<00:13:13.040> know,<00:13:13.160> you<00:13:13.280> may<00:13:13.400> not<00:13:13.640> understand<00:13:14.360> it,<00:13:14.560> but<00:13:14.760> at<00:13:14.839> least<00:13:15.080> you<00:13:15.120> have<00:13:15.240> to<00:13:15.360> have<00:13:15.560> reverence<00:13:16.040> for<00:13:16.280> it.

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And<00:13:17.520> they<00:13:17.800> would<00:13:18.000> say<00:13:18.160> there<00:13:18.280> was<00:13:18.400> no<00:13:18.600> evidence.

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So,<00:13:19.080> we<00:13:19.200> live<00:13:19.400> in<00:13:19.560> an<00:13:19.640> evidence-based<00:13:20.360> time.<00:13:21.160> So,<00:13:21.400> we<00:13:21.520> started<00:13:21.839> to<00:13:21.920> do<00:13:22.080> the<00:13:22.160> studies<00:13:22.600> for<00:13:22.720> that<00:13:23.000> reason.

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Then<00:13:23.839> the<00:13:23.960> concern<00:13:24.560> was,<00:13:24.839> "Well,<00:13:24.960> everyone<00:13:25.280> will<00:13:25.360> think<00:13:25.600> they're<00:13:25.800> confused,<00:13:26.560> they're<00:13:26.720> drugged,<00:13:27.200> they're<00:13:27.360> feeble-minded,<00:13:28.480> so<00:13:28.720> we<00:13:28.880> filmed<00:13:29.280> them<00:13:29.880> just<00:13:30.120> so<00:13:30.640> it<00:13:30.760> was<00:13:30.880> very

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important<00:13:31.520> that<00:13:31.640> people<00:13:32.000> heard<00:13:32.360> them<00:13:32.600> in<00:13:32.720> their<00:13:32.880> own<00:13:33.120> words<00:13:33.480> and<00:13:33.680> and<00:13:33.840> looked<00:13:34.080> at<00:13:34.200> them.

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<00:13:34.780> Yeah,<00:13:35.000> there<00:13:35.220> was<00:13:35.440> a<00:13:35.660> patient<00:13:35.880> you<00:13:36.100> write<00:13:36.320> about<00:13:36.540> so<00:13:36.760> vividly<00:13:36.980> here,<00:13:37.200> Dwayne.

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Can<00:13:37.768> you<00:13:37.936> tell<00:13:38.104> us<00:13:38.272> a<00:13:38.440> little<00:13:38.608> bit<00:13:38.776> about<00:13:38.944> him?<00:13:39.112> <00:13:39.280> Yeah.

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<00:13:40.073> His<00:13:40.345> reunion<00:13:40.618> with<00:13:40.891> his<00:13:41.164> daughter<00:13:41.436> and<00:13:41.709> the<00:13:41.982> desire<00:13:42.255> to<00:13:42.527> have<00:13:42.800> forgiveness.

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<00:13:43.927> So,<00:13:44.213> 80%<00:13:44.500> of<00:13:44.787> these<00:13:45.073> were<00:13:45.360> were<00:13:45.647> overwhelmingly<00:13:45.933> comforting<00:13:46.220> and<00:13:46.507> 12<00:13:46.793> were<00:13:47.080> discomforting.

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What<00:13:48.440> we<00:13:48.560> got<00:13:48.920> wrong<00:13:49.640> was<00:13:49.840> the<00:13:49.920> discomforting<00:13:50.640> dreams<00:13:51.040> were<00:13:51.200> actually<00:13:51.560> some<00:13:51.760> of<00:13:51.800> the<00:13:51.880> most<00:13:52.160> transformative.

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So,<00:13:54.080> you<00:13:54.240> could<00:13:54.440> carry<00:13:54.680> this<00:13:54.960> lifelong<00:13:55.720> spiritual<00:13:56.440> psychological<00:13:57.200> injury<00:13:57.960> that<00:13:58.120> got<00:13:58.360> addressed<00:13:58.800> at<00:13:58.920> the<00:13:59.080> end,<00:13:59.600> and<00:13:59.760> that<00:13:59.960> was<00:14:00.160> really<00:14:00.320> the<00:14:00.440> story<00:14:01.240> of<00:14:01.400> Dwayne.

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What<00:14:01.920> happened<00:14:02.360> to<00:14:02.520> him<00:14:03.320> was<00:14:03.560> he<00:14:03.920> had<00:14:04.600> multi-generational<00:14:05.640> substance<00:14:06.160> abuse.

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He<00:14:06.760> was<00:14:06.960> imprisoned<00:14:07.920> more<00:14:08.160> than<00:14:08.280> he<00:14:08.360> was<00:14:08.560> out<00:14:08.720> of<00:14:08.840> prison.

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He<00:14:09.680> came<00:14:09.920> into<00:14:10.160> our<00:14:10.320> inpatient<00:14:10.800> unit<00:14:10.960> because<00:14:11.160> he<00:14:11.280> couldn't<00:14:11.560> sleep.

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He<00:14:11.880> had<00:14:12.080> head<00:14:12.240> and<00:14:12.320> neck<00:14:12.520> cancer.<00:14:13.640> And<00:14:13.920> he<00:14:14.600> thought<00:14:14.840> that<00:14:14.960> he<00:14:15.040> was<00:14:15.200> being<00:14:15.480> stabbed<00:14:15.920> where<00:14:16.080> his<00:14:16.280> wounds<00:14:16.680> were<00:14:16.840> by<00:14:17.040> everybody<00:14:17.560> he<00:14:17.720> had<00:14:17.920> harmed.

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He<00:14:19.000> was<00:14:19.160> a<00:14:19.200> loving<00:14:19.720> man.<00:14:20.000> He<00:14:20.120> was<00:14:20.320> jovial.<00:14:20.840> He<00:14:20.960> was<00:14:21.200> forward-looking.

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He<00:14:22.040> had<00:14:22.160> a<00:14:22.240> life<00:14:22.560> he<00:14:22.680> couldn't<00:14:23.440> look<00:14:23.720> back.

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And<00:14:25.320> then<00:14:25.560> this<00:14:25.720> started<00:14:26.080> to<00:14:26.200> happen,<00:14:26.600> and<00:14:26.720> again,<00:14:27.040> he<00:14:27.200> couldn't<00:14:27.520> sleep,<00:14:27.760> which<00:14:27.920> makes<00:14:28.160> it<00:14:28.240> very<00:14:28.480> hard<00:14:28.800> to<00:14:28.880> pass.

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And<00:14:29.880> then<00:14:30.000> he<00:14:30.160> asked<00:14:30.360> to<00:14:30.480> see<00:14:30.600> his<00:14:30.760> daughter.<00:14:32.040> And<00:14:32.440> the<00:14:32.560> daughter<00:14:33.000> came<00:14:33.280> to<00:14:33.440> see<00:14:33.640> him,<00:14:34.040> and<00:14:34.360> we<00:14:34.480> were<00:14:34.600> all<00:14:34.760> standing<00:14:35.200> there,<00:14:35.600> and<00:14:35.880> he<00:14:35.960> dropped<00:14:36.320> his<00:14:36.520> walker,<00:14:37.000> and<00:14:37.080> he<00:14:37.240> hugged

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her,<00:14:38.240> and<00:14:38.720> told<00:14:38.960> her<00:14:39.040> how<00:14:39.120> much<00:14:39.360> he<00:14:39.480> loved<00:14:39.800> her,<00:14:40.080> and<00:14:40.240> for<00:14:40.360> the<00:14:40.480> first<00:14:40.880> time,<00:14:41.720> he<00:14:41.800> was<00:14:42.040> honest<00:14:42.480> and<00:14:42.600> said<00:14:42.760> he<00:14:42.880> was<00:14:43.000> sorry<00:14:43.320> for<00:14:43.480> all<00:14:43.640> the<00:14:43.720> things<00:14:44.040> that<00:14:44.160> he<00:14:44.280> had<00:14:44.440> done.

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And<00:14:45.851> he<00:14:46.102> broke<00:14:46.353> down.<00:14:46.604> <00:14:46.855> I<00:14:47.105> just<00:14:47.356> want<00:14:47.607> people<00:14:47.858> to<00:14:48.109> forgive<00:14:48.360> me.

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And<00:14:49.670> please<00:14:50.020> know<00:14:50.370> that<00:14:50.720> I<00:14:51.070> was<00:14:51.420> sick<00:14:51.770> <00:14:52.120> Mhm.

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<00:14:53.056> at<00:14:53.433> the<00:14:53.809> time<00:14:54.186> when<00:14:54.562> I<00:14:54.939> was<00:14:55.315> doing<00:14:55.692> certain<00:14:56.068> things<00:14:56.445> that<00:14:56.821> I<00:14:57.198> was<00:14:57.574> hurting<00:14:57.951> them<00:14:58.327> and<00:14:58.704> their<00:14:59.080> families.

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You<00:15:00.600> know,<00:15:01.320> that's<00:15:01.560> all<00:15:01.760> I<00:15:01.880> want.

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<00:15:08.141> And<00:15:08.402> so,<00:15:08.663> he<00:15:08.924> was<00:15:09.185> released<00:15:09.446> finally<00:15:09.707> from<00:15:09.968> all<00:15:10.229> this<00:15:10.490> that<00:15:10.750> he<00:15:11.011> had<00:15:11.272> been<00:15:11.533> carrying,<00:15:11.794> and<00:15:12.055> then<00:15:12.316> he<00:15:12.577> was<00:15:12.838> able<00:15:13.099> to<00:15:13.360> sleep.

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She<00:15:14.000> stayed<00:15:14.280> at<00:15:14.360> his<00:15:14.520> bedside,<00:15:15.120> and<00:15:15.200> he<00:15:15.280> passed<00:15:15.600> comfortably.

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<00:15:16.760> Yeah,<00:15:17.000> and<00:15:17.240> in<00:15:17.480> that<00:15:17.720> reunion,<00:15:17.960> she<00:15:18.200> said,<00:15:18.440> "I<00:15:18.680> don't<00:15:18.920> even<00:15:19.160> care<00:15:19.400> about<00:15:19.640> all<00:15:19.880> this<00:15:20.120> stuff<00:15:20.360> that<00:15:20.600> stuff."

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<00:15:21.404> him.<00:15:21.648> <00:15:21.892> She<00:15:22.137> forgave<00:15:22.381> him.<00:15:22.625> Yeah.<00:15:22.869> A<00:15:23.113> lot<00:15:23.357> of<00:15:23.601> people<00:15:23.846> are<00:15:24.090> still<00:15:24.334> in<00:15:24.578> the<00:15:24.822> end<00:15:25.066> looking<00:15:25.310> for<00:15:25.554> forgiveness<00:15:25.799> if<00:15:26.043> they<00:15:26.287> feel<00:15:26.531> and<00:15:26.775> it's<00:15:27.019> hard<00:15:27.263> for<00:15:27.508> them<00:15:27.752> to<00:15:27.996> pass<00:15:28.240> without

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it.<00:15:29.040> <00:15:29.480> Absolutely.<00:15:29.920> <00:15:30.360> Yes.<00:15:30.800> Dr.

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Kerr<00:15:31.240> had<00:15:31.360> a<00:15:31.400> patient<00:15:32.040> named<00:15:32.640> Jean<00:15:33.320> who<00:15:33.600> he<00:15:33.800> interviewed<00:15:34.200> before<00:15:34.560> she<00:15:34.760> passed<00:15:35.520> and<00:15:36.560> let's<00:15:36.840> watch<00:15:37.160> Jean's<00:15:37.680> sharing<00:15:38.640> what<00:15:38.840> happened<00:15:39.800> in

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her<00:15:41.360> end-of-life<00:15:42.400> visitations.

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<00:15:45.108> I<00:15:45.495> was<00:15:45.883> laying<00:15:46.271> in<00:15:46.658> bed<00:15:47.046> and<00:15:47.434> people<00:15:47.822> were<00:15:48.209> walking<00:15:48.597> very<00:15:48.985> slowly<00:15:49.372> by<00:15:49.760> me.

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The<00:15:52.560> right-hand<00:15:53.200> side<00:15:53.840> I<00:15:53.920> didn't<00:15:54.360> know,<00:15:55.000> but<00:15:55.160> they<00:15:55.360> were<00:15:55.520> all<00:15:55.680> very<00:15:55.960> friendly<00:15:56.520> and<00:15:56.680> they<00:15:56.840> touched<00:15:57.360> my<00:15:57.640> arm<00:15:58.080> or<00:15:58.240> my<00:16:00.360> hand<00:16:00.960> when

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My<00:16:06.880> mom<00:16:07.160> and<00:16:07.280> dad<00:16:07.600> were<00:16:07.760> there.<00:16:09.240> Everybody<00:16:09.920> I<00:16:10.080> knew<00:16:10.440> that<00:16:10.800> was<00:16:11.120> dead<00:16:11.680> was<00:16:11.960> there.

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And<00:16:13.440> they<00:16:13.640> passed<00:16:14.120> and<00:16:14.240> did<00:16:14.480> the<00:16:14.600> same<00:16:14.960> thing.

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Boy,<00:16:15.920> I<00:16:16.080> remember<00:16:16.640> seeing<00:16:17.120> every<00:16:18.280> piece<00:16:18.640> of<00:16:18.760> their<00:16:19.000> face<00:16:19.640> and<00:16:21.280> I<00:16:21.360> mean,<00:16:21.640> I<00:16:21.720> know<00:16:22.000> that<00:16:22.200> was<00:16:22.400> my<00:16:22.560> mom<00:16:22.880> and<00:16:23.000> dad<00:16:23.440> and<00:16:23.560> uncle<00:16:23.920> and

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my<00:16:24.160> brother-in-law.<00:16:25.240> I<00:16:25.360> have<00:16:25.680> seen<00:16:25.920> my<00:16:26.040> mother<00:16:27.600> recently<00:16:28.480> more.

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I<00:16:29.480> can't<00:16:29.839> say<00:16:30.040> that<00:16:30.240> my<00:16:30.400> mother<00:16:30.760> and<00:16:30.920> I<00:16:31.080> got<00:16:31.400> along<00:16:32.160> all<00:16:32.320> those<00:16:32.640> years.

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But<00:16:34.760> we<00:16:34.960> made<00:16:35.240> up<00:16:35.480> for<00:16:35.720> it<00:16:35.880> at<00:16:36.040> the<00:16:36.160> end.

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And<00:16:37.440> when<00:16:37.600> I<00:16:37.680> told<00:16:38.000> my<00:16:38.120> family<00:16:39.080> that<00:16:40.160> I<00:16:40.280> was<00:16:40.560> happy<00:16:40.920> about<00:16:41.280> it<00:16:41.400> and<00:16:41.520> that's<00:16:41.800> what<00:16:41.960> they<00:16:42.160> asked.

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How<00:16:43.880> does<00:16:44.080> it<00:16:44.200> make<00:16:44.440> you<00:16:44.520> feel?<00:16:45.200> Well,<00:16:45.920> I<00:16:46.040> feel<00:16:46.360> good<00:16:46.560> about<00:16:46.960> it.

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<00:16:47.977> Wow.<00:16:48.394> Jean's<00:16:48.811> daughter<00:16:49.229> Julie<00:16:49.646> now<00:16:50.063> joins<00:16:50.480> us.

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Welcome,<00:16:50.920> Julie.<00:16:51.200> Tell<00:16:51.400> us<00:16:51.839> more<00:16:52.240> about<00:16:52.520> your<00:16:52.640> mother's<00:16:53.040> experience.

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Hi,<00:16:54.004> welcome.<00:16:54.328> <00:16:54.652> Hi.<00:16:54.976> Thank<00:16:55.300> you<00:16:55.624> so<00:16:55.948> much<00:16:56.272> for<00:16:56.596> having<00:16:56.920> me.

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Thank<00:16:58.268> you<00:16:58.455> for<00:16:58.643> talking<00:16:58.831> about<00:16:59.018> my<00:16:59.206> mom.<00:16:59.394> <00:16:59.582> We<00:16:59.769> want<00:16:59.957> to<00:17:00.145> hear<00:17:00.332> about<00:17:00.520> it.

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So,<00:17:01.040> tell<00:17:01.280> us<00:17:01.400> more<00:17:01.600> about<00:17:01.880> that<00:17:02.080> moment<00:17:02.720> we<00:17:02.839> just<00:17:03.040> saw.

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<00:17:03.884> Yeah,<00:17:04.288> so<00:17:04.692> about<00:17:05.096> about<00:17:05.500> two<00:17:05.904> to<00:17:06.308> four<00:17:06.712> months<00:17:07.116> before<00:17:07.520> my<00:17:07.924> mother<00:17:08.328> died,<00:17:08.732> she<00:17:09.136> shared<00:17:09.540> with<00:17:09.944> me<00:17:10.348> that<00:17:10.752> she<00:17:11.156> had<00:17:11.560> been

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having<00:17:12.760> visions<00:17:13.880> seeing<00:17:14.240> her<00:17:14.400> mom<00:17:15.640> around<00:17:16.000> her<00:17:16.160> apartment<00:17:17.120> and<00:17:17.760> uh<00:17:17.959> her<00:17:18.120> mother<00:17:18.360> had<00:17:18.520> died<00:17:19.199> 30<00:17:19.480> years<00:17:19.760> ago.

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So,<00:17:21.800> in<00:17:21.959> this<00:17:22.160> particular<00:17:22.720> situation,<00:17:24.040> Mom<00:17:24.280> and<00:17:24.400> I<00:17:24.439> were<00:17:24.560> sitting<00:17:24.800> down<00:17:24.959> the<00:17:25.319> um<00:17:25.520> the<00:17:25.600> sofa<00:17:26.280> having<00:17:26.640> a<00:17:26.680> conversation,<00:17:28.160> and<00:17:28.319> she<00:17:28.439> said,<00:17:28.680> "You<00:17:28.800> know,<00:17:29.600> Jill,

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I<00:17:29.960> want<00:17:30.240> to<00:17:30.360> tell<00:17:30.680> you<00:17:30.880> something,<00:17:31.360> but<00:17:31.520> I'm<00:17:31.640> afraid<00:17:31.920> you're<00:17:32.000> going<00:17:32.120> to<00:17:32.200> think<00:17:32.440> I'm<00:17:32.560> crazy."

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And<00:17:34.400> uh<00:17:34.600> I<00:17:34.640> had<00:17:34.840> no,<00:17:35.120> "Tell<00:17:35.360> me,<00:17:35.560> tell<00:17:35.760> me<00:17:36.520> anything.

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Tell<00:17:37.240> me<00:17:37.360> anything."<00:17:38.400> And<00:17:38.840> she<00:17:39.080> said<00:17:39.400> that<00:17:39.960> her<00:17:40.120> mother<00:17:41.000> was<00:17:41.200> sitting<00:17:41.520> in<00:17:41.640> the<00:17:41.760> chair<00:17:42.640> across<00:17:43.080> the<00:17:43.200> room.

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She<00:17:47.440> might<00:17:47.760> be."<00:17:47.960> But<00:17:48.560> no,<00:17:48.840> "Mom<00:17:49.200> is<00:17:49.400> sitting<00:17:50.160> in<00:17:50.320> the<00:17:50.440> chair<00:17:50.720> across<00:17:51.080> the<00:17:51.200> room.

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And<00:17:52.920> um<00:17:53.840> she<00:17:54.480> is<00:17:54.680> waiting<00:17:54.960> for<00:17:55.200> me.

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<00:18:01.772> What<00:18:01.983> did<00:18:02.195> you<00:18:02.407> think<00:18:02.618> when<00:18:02.830> she<00:18:03.042> first<00:18:03.253> told<00:18:03.465> you<00:18:03.677> that?<00:18:03.888> <00:18:04.100> You<00:18:04.312> know,<00:18:04.523> I<00:18:04.735> am<00:18:04.947> so<00:18:05.158> glad<00:18:05.370> that<00:18:05.582> I<00:18:05.793> didn't<00:18:06.005> say<00:18:06.217> anything<00:18:06.428> at<00:18:06.640> first.

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good<00:18:25.853> [clears<00:18:26.187> throat]<00:18:26.520> about<00:18:26.853> the<00:18:27.187> experience,<00:18:27.520> then<00:18:27.853> I<00:18:28.187> felt<00:18:28.520> good.

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And<00:18:29.560> my<00:18:29.840> family<00:18:30.280> felt<00:18:30.520> good<00:18:30.720> about<00:18:31.040> it.

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<00:18:31.618> How<00:18:31.836> should<00:18:32.054> we<00:18:32.272> re-<00:18:32.490> react?<00:18:32.708> There<00:18:32.926> are<00:18:33.144> many<00:18:33.362> of<00:18:33.580> you<00:18:33.798> who<00:18:34.016> are<00:18:34.234> watching<00:18:34.452> us<00:18:34.670> and<00:18:34.888> listening<00:18:35.106> to<00:18:35.324> us<00:18:35.542> right<00:18:35.760> now.

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You're<00:18:36.640> going<00:18:36.760> to<00:18:36.840> be<00:18:37.000> in<00:18:37.120> this<00:18:37.280> situation<00:18:38.520> where<00:18:38.800> you<00:18:39.120> are<00:18:39.600> in<00:18:40.240> the<00:18:40.360> space<00:18:40.920> with<00:18:41.120> a<00:18:41.200> loved<00:18:41.520> one<00:18:42.320> who<00:18:42.920> has<00:18:43.240> a<00:18:43.320> visitation<00:18:44.120> or<00:18:44.880> has

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a<00:18:45.600> end-of-life<00:18:46.520> dream<00:18:47.080> as<00:18:47.280> we're<00:18:47.440> we're<00:18:47.640> we're<00:18:47.800> we're<00:18:47.960> discussing<00:18:48.520> here.

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And<00:18:49.800> what<00:18:50.040> should<00:18:50.240> the<00:18:50.360> reaction<00:18:50.800> be?

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<00:18:54.866> It's<00:18:55.132> really<00:18:55.398> part<00:18:55.664> of<00:18:55.929> the<00:18:56.195> reason<00:18:56.461> we<00:18:56.727> did<00:18:56.993> this<00:18:57.259> work<00:18:57.525> is<00:18:57.791> that<00:18:58.056> dying<00:18:58.322> is<00:18:58.588> isolating<00:18:58.854> and<00:18:59.120> lonely.

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<00:19:00.189> Yeah.<00:19:00.498> <00:19:00.807> And<00:19:01.116> there's<00:19:01.424> some<00:19:01.733> data<00:19:02.042> that<00:19:02.351> without<00:19:02.660> validation,<00:19:02.969> people<00:19:03.278> keep<00:19:03.587> this<00:19:03.896> to<00:19:04.204> themselves<00:19:04.513> for<00:19:04.822> fear<00:19:05.131> of<00:19:05.440> ridicule.

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<00:19:06.212> Yeah.<00:19:06.385> <00:19:06.557> So<00:19:06.729> <00:19:06.902> your<00:19:07.074> mom<00:19:07.246> said,<00:19:07.418> "You're<00:19:07.591> going<00:19:07.763> to<00:19:07.935> think<00:19:08.108> I'm<00:19:08.280> crazy."

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<00:19:09.326> So,<00:19:09.652> not<00:19:09.978> acknowledging<00:19:10.305> it<00:19:10.631> and<00:19:10.957> not<00:19:11.283> normalizing<00:19:11.609> it<00:19:11.935> actually<00:19:12.262> is<00:19:12.588> just<00:19:12.914> further<00:19:13.240> isolating.

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So<00:19:14.680> it<00:19:14.800> comes<00:19:15.200> Some<00:19:15.400> people<00:19:15.640> are<00:19:15.880> enormously<00:19:16.480> relieved<00:19:16.840> when<00:19:16.960> you<00:19:17.000> tell<00:19:17.160> them,<00:19:17.280> "Oh<00:19:17.320> no,<00:19:17.440> no,<00:19:17.520> this<00:19:17.760> is<00:19:17.880> normal."

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And<00:19:19.167> they<00:19:19.493> go,<00:19:19.820> "Thank<00:19:20.147> goodness."<00:19:20.473> <00:19:20.800> Yeah.

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<00:19:21.330> Um<00:19:21.540> but<00:19:21.750> in<00:19:21.960> her<00:19:22.170> case,<00:19:22.380> it's<00:19:22.590> so<00:19:22.800> fascinating.

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She<00:19:23.480> was<00:19:23.560> just<00:19:23.760> so<00:19:23.920> classic.<00:19:24.880> It<00:19:24.960> was<00:19:25.160> vivid,<00:19:25.720> right?

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Recalled<00:19:26.720> in<00:19:26.880> detail.<00:19:27.800> And<00:19:27.960> normally<00:19:28.360> seeing<00:19:28.680> deceased<00:19:29.080> people<00:19:29.400> would<00:19:29.560> be<00:19:30.320> a<00:19:30.360> thing<00:19:30.600> of<00:19:30.720> nightmares,<00:19:31.320> and<00:19:31.440> she's<00:19:31.640> perfectly<00:19:32.200> at<00:19:32.400> peace.

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<00:19:33.083> Oh,<00:19:33.246> no,<00:19:33.409> I<00:19:33.572> saw<00:19:33.735> them<00:19:33.898> all.<00:19:34.062> She<00:19:34.225> said<00:19:34.388> they<00:19:34.551> were<00:19:34.714> all<00:19:34.877> right<00:19:35.040> here.

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<00:19:35.800> The<00:19:36.120> other<00:19:36.440> thing<00:19:36.760> is,<00:19:37.080> again,<00:19:37.400> this<00:19:37.720> idea<00:19:38.040> of<00:19:38.360> addressing<00:19:38.680> an<00:19:39.000> injury,<00:19:39.320> um,<00:19:39.640> or<00:19:39.960> a<00:19:40.280> wound<00:19:40.600> for<00:19:40.920> having<00:19:41.240> lived.

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And<00:19:41.920> in<00:19:41.960> her<00:19:42.240> case,<00:19:42.520> there<00:19:42.640> was<00:19:42.800> some<00:19:42.960> issue<00:19:43.280> with<00:19:43.440> her<00:19:43.560> mother.

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<00:19:44.342> Mhm.<00:19:44.683> <00:19:45.025> And<00:19:45.366> that<00:19:45.708> got<00:19:46.049> addressed,<00:19:46.391> uh,<00:19:46.732> towards<00:19:47.074> the<00:19:47.415> end<00:19:47.757> within<00:19:48.098> these<00:19:48.440> experiences.

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And<00:19:49.720> that<00:19:49.960> gave<00:19:50.200> her<00:19:50.440> the<00:19:50.600> peace<00:19:50.960> that<00:19:51.120> she<00:19:51.320> needed.

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<00:19:52.351> Mhm.<00:19:52.703> You<00:19:53.054> believe,<00:19:53.406> Julie,<00:19:53.757> that<00:19:54.109> your<00:19:54.460> mom<00:19:54.811> had<00:19:55.163> an<00:19:55.514> awakening<00:19:55.866> before<00:19:56.217> she<00:19:56.569> passed,<00:19:56.920> correct?

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What<00:19:57.600> happened?<00:19:58.560> <00:19:58.840> Yes,<00:19:59.400> about<00:19:59.640> 10<00:19:59.760> to<00:20:00.080> 12<00:20:00.600> days<00:20:01.120> before<00:20:01.560> she<00:20:02.840> died,<00:20:02.920> uh,<00:20:03.200> she<00:20:03.600> went<00:20:04.040> into<00:20:04.360> a<00:20:04.440> coma-like<00:20:05.120> state.

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She<00:20:06.040> was...<00:20:06.520> She<00:20:06.680> was<00:20:06.840> unresponsive.<00:20:07.840> Her...<00:20:08.480> Her<00:20:08.640> body<00:20:08.960> was<00:20:09.160> shutting<00:20:09.480> down.

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She<00:20:10.440> hadn't<00:20:11.320> had<00:20:11.560> anything<00:20:11.960> to<00:20:12.080> eat<00:20:12.240> or<00:20:12.320> drink<00:20:12.720> in<00:20:13.120> several<00:20:13.480> days.

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And<00:20:14.640> family<00:20:15.160> was<00:20:15.400> around,<00:20:15.920> and<00:20:16.080> we<00:20:16.280> were<00:20:16.520> just<00:20:16.880> being<00:20:17.200> with<00:20:17.440> her<00:20:18.000> and,<00:20:18.560> um,<00:20:19.320> saying<00:20:19.640> our<00:20:19.760> goodbyes.

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And<00:20:22.240> she<00:20:23.200> woke<00:20:23.480> up.

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It<00:20:24.480> was<00:20:24.640> amazing.<00:20:25.600> She...<00:20:26.800> She<00:20:27.000> opened<00:20:27.280> her<00:20:27.440> eyes.

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And<00:20:28.960> she<00:20:29.880> smiled<00:20:31.200> this<00:20:31.600> beautiful<00:20:32.200> smile.

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And,<00:20:33.944> um,<00:20:34.328> <00:20:34.712> Was<00:20:35.096> she<00:20:35.480> alert?

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<00:20:36.204> Kind<00:20:36.527> of...<00:20:36.851> She<00:20:37.175> alert?<00:20:37.498> <00:20:37.822> Yes.<00:20:38.145> She<00:20:38.469> recognized<00:20:38.793> all<00:20:39.116> of<00:20:39.440> us.

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She<00:20:40.560> was<00:20:41.200> clear.<00:20:42.240> She<00:20:42.480> let<00:20:42.680> us<00:20:42.800> know<00:20:43.000> that<00:20:43.200> she<00:20:43.400> loved<00:20:43.760> us.

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At<00:20:44.440> the<00:20:44.560> time,<00:20:44.920> she<00:20:45.440> couldn't<00:20:45.760> say<00:20:46.000> a<00:20:46.080> whole<00:20:46.280> lot.

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She<00:20:46.960> couldn't<00:20:47.280> speak<00:20:47.640> more<00:20:47.840> than<00:20:48.000> one<00:20:48.160> or<00:20:48.240> two<00:20:48.440> words,<00:20:48.760> but<00:20:49.000> she...<00:20:49.720> She<00:20:50.000> hugged<00:20:50.280> her<00:20:50.400> best<00:20:50.680> friend.

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She<00:20:52.280> said<00:20:52.520> goodbye<00:20:52.760> to<00:20:52.880> her<00:20:53.000> sister.<00:20:54.240> It<00:20:54.320> was<00:20:54.600> truly<00:20:55.200> lovely<00:20:56.200> and<00:20:56.440> such<00:20:56.680> a<00:20:56.760> gift<00:20:57.120> and<00:20:57.240> blessing<00:20:57.760> to<00:20:57.880> our<00:20:58.000> family.

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<00:20:58.909> Aw.<00:20:59.138> And<00:20:59.367> how<00:20:59.596> soon...<00:20:59.825> <00:21:00.055> And<00:21:00.284> she<00:21:00.513> died<00:21:00.742> the<00:21:00.971> next<00:21:01.200> day.

00:21:01.560 --> 00:21:07.360
<00:21:01.823> Okay,<00:21:02.086> that's<00:21:02.349> what<00:21:02.613> I<00:21:02.876> was<00:21:03.139> going<00:21:03.402> to<00:21:03.665> ask.<00:21:03.928> Thank<00:21:04.192> you<00:21:04.455> so<00:21:04.718> much<00:21:04.981> for<00:21:05.244> sharing<00:21:05.507> and<00:21:05.771> talking<00:21:06.034> about<00:21:06.297> your<00:21:06.560> mother.

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Yeah,<00:21:07.537> thank<00:21:07.714> you<00:21:07.891> for<00:21:08.069> being<00:21:08.246> here<00:21:08.423> with<00:21:08.600> us.<00:21:08.777> <00:21:08.954> And<00:21:09.131> thank<00:21:09.309> you<00:21:09.486> for<00:21:09.663> having<00:21:09.840> me.

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<00:21:10.575> Thank<00:21:11.029> you,<00:21:11.484> Julie.<00:21:11.939> So,<00:21:12.394> you<00:21:12.848> write<00:21:13.303> that<00:21:13.758> patients<00:21:14.213> describe<00:21:14.667> these<00:21:15.122> end-of-life<00:21:15.577> experiences<00:21:16.032> as<00:21:16.486> one<00:21:16.941> of<00:21:17.396> the<00:21:17.851> most<00:21:18.305> awake<00:21:18.760> and

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alert<00:21:19.800> and<00:21:20.000> present<00:21:20.480> they've<00:21:20.720> ever...<00:21:20.840> they've<00:21:21.080> ever<00:21:21.280> been.

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<00:21:22.088> Yeah,<00:21:22.335> yeah,<00:21:22.583> one<00:21:22.831> of<00:21:23.078> the<00:21:23.326> things<00:21:23.574> you<00:21:23.822> take<00:21:24.069> away<00:21:24.317> from<00:21:24.565> watching<00:21:24.812> is<00:21:25.060> one,<00:21:25.308> the<00:21:25.555> absence<00:21:25.803> of<00:21:26.051> fear,<00:21:26.298> like<00:21:26.546> you<00:21:26.794> saw<00:21:27.042> with<00:21:27.289> Genie,<00:21:27.537> complete<00:21:27.785> absence<00:21:28.032> of<00:21:28.280> fear.

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The<00:21:29.080> other<00:21:29.440> is<00:21:29.760> they<00:21:30.000> struggle<00:21:30.720> many<00:21:31.040> times<00:21:31.400> to<00:21:31.520> find<00:21:31.840> language<00:21:32.320> for<00:21:32.440> the<00:21:32.560> clarity<00:21:33.280> and<00:21:33.440> the<00:21:33.520> color<00:21:34.280> and<00:21:34.480> the<00:21:34.600> vividness.

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And<00:21:35.880> again,<00:21:36.280> nothing<00:21:36.760> said,<00:21:37.560> but<00:21:38.000> so<00:21:38.240> much<00:21:38.520> there.

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The<00:21:38.960> detail<00:21:39.560> seems<00:21:39.880> to<00:21:40.000> be...<00:21:40.440> to<00:21:40.560> be<00:21:40.680> very<00:21:40.960> much<00:21:41.320> alive<00:21:41.800> and<00:21:41.920> present<00:21:42.360> for<00:21:42.600> them.

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<00:21:43.194> Yes.<00:21:43.427> <00:21:43.661> Yeah,<00:21:43.895> and<00:21:44.128> it<00:21:44.362> feels<00:21:44.596> virtual.<00:21:44.829> Um,<00:21:45.063> and<00:21:45.297> that's<00:21:45.531> why<00:21:45.764> we...<00:21:45.998> I<00:21:46.232> think<00:21:46.465> I<00:21:46.699> struggle<00:21:46.933> with<00:21:47.166> this<00:21:47.400> dream.

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It<00:21:47.960> doesn't<00:21:48.240> seem<00:21:48.520> distant<00:21:49.480> and<00:21:49.680> tangential.

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It<00:21:50.693> seems<00:21:50.987> near.<00:21:51.280> <00:21:51.573> Right,<00:21:51.867> it's<00:21:52.160> near.

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<00:21:52.929> In<00:21:53.177> her...<00:21:53.426> she<00:21:53.675> had<00:21:53.923> case...<00:21:54.172> she<00:21:54.421> had<00:21:54.670> something<00:21:54.918> that's<00:21:55.167> very<00:21:55.416> well<00:21:55.664> known<00:21:55.913> called<00:21:56.162> terminal<00:21:56.410> lucidity,<00:21:56.659> where<00:21:56.908> all<00:21:57.157> of<00:21:57.405> a<00:21:57.654> sudden<00:21:57.903> somebody<00:21:58.151> wakes<00:21:58.400> up.

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And<00:21:59.280> you<00:21:59.360> know,<00:21:59.440> one<00:21:59.680> of<00:21:59.800> the<00:21:59.920> things<00:22:00.280> changes<00:22:00.760> that<00:22:01.880> we...<00:22:02.000> we...<00:22:02.320> we<00:22:02.440> can<00:22:02.680> rekindle<00:22:03.880> or<00:22:04.080> unlock<00:22:04.600> our<00:22:04.760> memory,<00:22:06.040> um,<00:22:06.120> with<00:22:06.240> certain<00:22:06.520> stimulus.

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For<00:22:07.080> example,<00:22:07.520> you're<00:22:07.680> listening<00:22:08.000> to<00:22:08.160> an<00:22:08.280> old<00:22:08.520> song<00:22:09.040> and<00:22:09.160> you<00:22:09.240> remember,<00:22:09.600> flashback<00:22:10.280> to<00:22:10.400> high<00:22:10.600> school<00:22:10.960> at<00:22:11.040> a<00:22:11.120> dance.

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So,<00:22:12.320> whether<00:22:13.200> these<00:22:13.480> sort<00:22:13.720> of<00:22:13.840> dreams<00:22:14.400> are<00:22:14.560> kindling<00:22:15.120> memory<00:22:15.520> and<00:22:15.640> driving<00:22:16.080> wakefulness<00:22:16.760> and<00:22:16.960> recall<00:22:17.880> and<00:22:18.040> people<00:22:18.320> will<00:22:18.520> plug<00:22:18.880> in.

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But<00:22:19.760> again,<00:22:20.000> she<00:22:20.200> did<00:22:20.480> what<00:22:20.640> she<00:22:20.760> needed<00:22:20.960> to<00:22:21.040> do<00:22:21.200> to<00:22:21.320> close<00:22:21.920> her<00:22:22.080> life,<00:22:22.480> which<00:22:22.760> was<00:22:22.960> to<00:22:23.080> say<00:22:23.280> goodbye.

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<00:22:24.338> One<00:22:24.756> of<00:22:25.174> the<00:22:25.592> things<00:22:26.010> that<00:22:26.428> I...<00:22:26.846> I<00:22:27.264> read<00:22:27.682> is<00:22:28.100> that<00:22:28.518> you<00:22:28.936> believe<00:22:29.354> that<00:22:29.772> these<00:22:30.190> end-of-life<00:22:30.608> experiences<00:22:31.026> help<00:22:31.444> the<00:22:31.862> dying<00:22:32.280> to

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address<00:22:33.120> life<00:22:33.600> in<00:22:33.880> its<00:22:34.160> entirety.

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How<00:22:35.269> so?<00:22:35.499> <00:22:35.728> Oh,<00:22:35.957> I<00:22:36.187> just<00:22:36.416> think,<00:22:36.645> you<00:22:36.875> know,<00:22:37.104> we've<00:22:37.333> all<00:22:37.563> been<00:22:37.792> harmed<00:22:38.021> for<00:22:38.251> having<00:22:38.480> lived.

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Um,<00:22:39.720> whether<00:22:40.000> it's<00:22:40.200> regret<00:22:40.800> or<00:22:41.000> loss.<00:22:42.200> Um,<00:22:43.080> it...<00:22:43.200> it<00:22:43.280> is<00:22:43.480> something's<00:22:44.200> there<00:22:44.800> and,<00:22:45.960> um,<00:22:46.240> I'm<00:22:46.400> just<00:22:46.600> so<00:22:46.760> touched<00:22:47.360> that,<00:22:47.960> uh,

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so<00:22:48.400> much<00:22:48.640> of<00:22:48.720> that<00:22:49.000> in<00:22:49.120> the<00:22:49.240> process<00:22:49.720> of<00:22:49.880> living<00:22:50.960> it<00:22:51.600> lingers,<00:22:52.440> but<00:22:52.600> at<00:22:52.680> the<00:22:52.880> end<00:22:53.280> it<00:22:53.440> often<00:22:54.400> comes<00:22:54.680> around<00:22:55.080> and<00:22:55.200> gets<00:22:55.520> healed.

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So,<00:22:56.760> the<00:22:56.880> physical<00:22:57.360> wounds<00:22:57.720> aren't<00:22:57.920> healed,<00:22:58.280> but<00:22:58.440> these<00:22:58.600> kind<00:22:58.800> of<00:22:58.880> psychic<00:22:59.480> wounds,<00:23:00.400> um,<00:23:00.560> are<00:23:00.760> tended<00:23:01.240> to<00:23:01.960> in<00:23:02.160> remarkable<00:23:02.760> ways.

00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:10.640
Women<00:23:03.760> who<00:23:03.840> have<00:23:04.000> lost<00:23:04.320> children,<00:23:04.880> vets<00:23:05.240> who<00:23:05.520> have<00:23:05.600> had<00:23:05.840> trouble<00:23:06.200> with<00:23:06.400> survivor's<00:23:07.080> guilt,<00:23:07.880> very<00:23:08.160> near<00:23:08.440> the<00:23:08.600> end<00:23:08.800> of<00:23:08.920> their<00:23:09.080> life,<00:23:09.640> you<00:23:09.720> know,<00:23:09.840> they're<00:23:10.080> granted<00:23:10.480> this

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kind<00:23:11.000> of<00:23:11.120> peace.<00:23:11.480> Again,<00:23:11.840> this<00:23:12.040> idea<00:23:12.840> of<00:23:13.000> being<00:23:13.200> made<00:23:13.440> whole.

00:23:14.120 --> 00:23:16.840
<00:23:14.325> And<00:23:14.530> is<00:23:14.735> that<00:23:14.940> what<00:23:15.145> the<00:23:15.350> dying<00:23:15.555> are<00:23:15.760> seeking?

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A<00:23:17.178> wholeness<00:23:17.516> and<00:23:17.853> a<00:23:18.191> forgiveness?<00:23:18.529> <00:23:18.867> Yeah,<00:23:19.204> I<00:23:19.542> think<00:23:19.880> so.

00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:23.680
You<00:23:20.631> know,<00:23:20.782> we...<00:23:20.933> we<00:23:21.084> did<00:23:21.236> an<00:23:21.387> interesting<00:23:21.538> study<00:23:21.689> where<00:23:21.840> we<00:23:21.991> looked<00:23:22.142> at<00:23:22.293> <00:23:22.444> What<00:23:22.596> if<00:23:22.747> you<00:23:22.898> haven't<00:23:23.049> done<00:23:23.200> anything?

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I<00:23:23.800> don't<00:23:24.160> know<00:23:24.280> what<00:23:24.440> I'd<00:23:24.600> be<00:23:24.760> asking<00:23:25.080> to<00:23:25.160> be<00:23:25.280> forgiven<00:23:25.720> for.

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<00:23:26.860> Maybe<00:23:27.080> not.<00:23:27.300> <00:23:27.520> Yeah.<00:23:27.740> <00:23:27.960> But...<00:23:28.180> but<00:23:28.400> you<00:23:28.620> might<00:23:28.840> have...<00:23:29.060> you<00:23:29.280> certainly<00:23:29.500> carry<00:23:29.720> loss.

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<00:23:30.609> Yeah.<00:23:30.898> <00:23:31.187> You've<00:23:31.476> lost<00:23:31.764> people<00:23:32.053> who<00:23:32.342> are...<00:23:32.631> are<00:23:32.920> lingering<00:23:33.209> in<00:23:33.498> your<00:23:33.787> heart<00:23:34.076> and<00:23:34.364> they<00:23:34.653> come<00:23:34.942> back<00:23:35.231> to<00:23:35.520> you.

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<00:23:36.164> Yes.<00:23:36.367> <00:23:36.571> Um,<00:23:36.775> and<00:23:36.978> so<00:23:37.182> that...<00:23:37.385> that's<00:23:37.589> a<00:23:37.793> form<00:23:37.996> of<00:23:38.200> healing.

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And<00:23:39.360> we<00:23:39.480> did<00:23:39.680> a<00:23:39.720> study<00:23:40.080> where<00:23:40.240> we<00:23:40.320> looked<00:23:40.600> at<00:23:42.200> whether<00:23:42.880> looked<00:23:43.120> at<00:23:43.160> dying<00:23:43.360> as<00:23:43.520> post-traumatic<00:23:44.200> growth<00:23:44.560> to<00:23:44.680> see<00:23:44.800> whether<00:23:45.040> there<00:23:45.120> was<00:23:45.400> positive<00:23:45.920> changes<00:23:46.600> in<00:23:46.800> dying.

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And<00:23:47.720> in<00:23:47.840> fact,<00:23:48.120> you<00:23:48.280> are<00:23:48.520> gaining<00:23:48.960> insight<00:23:49.600> and<00:23:49.760> you<00:23:49.880> are<00:23:50.120> growing<00:23:50.520> spiritually.

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The<00:23:51.680> kind<00:23:51.840> of<00:23:51.920> take<00:23:52.280> home<00:23:52.600> is<00:23:52.760> you<00:23:52.840> don't<00:23:53.120> stop<00:23:53.480> living<00:23:54.200> because<00:23:54.560> you're<00:23:54.680> dying<00:23:54.960> and<00:23:55.080> in<00:23:55.240> fact,<00:23:55.560> there's<00:23:55.720> profound<00:23:56.400> living<00:23:56.920> within<00:23:57.280> dying<00:23:58.080> like<00:23:58.280> Genie<00:23:58.640> experienced.

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<00:24:00.117> Well,<00:24:00.315> I<00:24:00.512> know<00:24:00.709> you<00:24:00.907> do,<00:24:01.104> as<00:24:01.301> I<00:24:01.499> said<00:24:01.696> to<00:24:01.893> you,<00:24:02.091> you're<00:24:02.288> doing<00:24:02.485> the<00:24:02.683> Lord's<00:24:02.880> work.

00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:08.800
You're<00:24:04.000> handling,<00:24:05.040> you<00:24:05.160> know,<00:24:05.600> multiple<00:24:06.600> patients<00:24:07.240> at<00:24:07.680> one<00:24:07.960> time.

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And<00:24:08.920> so<00:24:09.040> to<00:24:09.200> take<00:24:09.440> the<00:24:09.560> time<00:24:10.840> to<00:24:11.360> sit<00:24:11.520> down<00:24:11.800> and<00:24:11.920> write<00:24:12.120> a<00:24:12.200> book<00:24:12.520> about<00:24:12.880> it<00:24:13.680> means<00:24:14.000> you<00:24:14.080> want<00:24:14.280> to<00:24:14.360> share<00:24:14.800> it,<00:24:15.320> this<00:24:15.560> information<00:24:16.240> in<00:24:16.400> this<00:24:16.600> book,<00:24:17.200> Death

00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:22.160
is<00:24:17.560> but<00:24:17.720> a<00:24:17.760> Dream.<00:24:18.200> You<00:24:18.280> want<00:24:18.440> to<00:24:18.520> share<00:24:18.840> it<00:24:19.000> because<00:24:19.800> you<00:24:20.000> want<00:24:20.280> the<00:24:20.400> world<00:24:20.800> to<00:24:20.920> know<00:24:21.280> what?

00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:29.560
<00:24:22.490> Well,<00:24:22.819> the<00:24:23.149> intention<00:24:23.478> has<00:24:23.808> changed.<00:24:24.137> It<00:24:24.467> was<00:24:24.796> originally<00:24:25.126> to<00:24:25.455> help<00:24:25.785> doctors<00:24:26.114> and<00:24:26.444> I<00:24:26.773> was<00:24:27.103> holding<00:24:27.432> the<00:24:27.762> wrong<00:24:28.091> end<00:24:28.421> of<00:24:28.750> the<00:24:29.080> stick.

00:24:29.560 --> 00:24:33.760
<00:24:29.809> Right.<00:24:30.057> <00:24:30.306> Um,<00:24:30.554> I...<00:24:30.803> I<00:24:31.051> don't<00:24:31.300> see<00:24:31.549> a<00:24:31.797> lot<00:24:32.046> of<00:24:32.294> change<00:24:32.543> in<00:24:32.791> that<00:24:33.040> direction.

00:24:33.760 --> 00:24:37.920
<00:24:34.137> Right.<00:24:34.514> <00:24:34.891> Medicine's...<00:24:35.269> medicine's<00:24:35.646> ever<00:24:36.023> more<00:24:36.400> transactional.

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Um,<00:24:38.880> it's...<00:24:39.320> it's<00:24:39.600> diluted,<00:24:40.240> it's<00:24:40.400> fragmented,<00:24:42.040> um,<00:24:42.160> and<00:24:42.480> it's<00:24:42.640> not<00:24:42.840> whole<00:24:43.080> person<00:24:43.440> care.

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Um,<00:24:44.906> but<00:24:45.091> what<00:24:45.277> has<00:24:45.463> changed<00:24:45.649> <00:24:45.834> You<00:24:46.020> weren't<00:24:46.206> able<00:24:46.391> to<00:24:46.577> get<00:24:46.763> through<00:24:46.949> to<00:24:47.134> the<00:24:47.320> doctors.

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So<00:24:48.240> now<00:24:48.440> you're<00:24:48.560> just<00:24:48.760> speaking<00:24:49.120> to<00:24:49.240> us<00:24:49.520> regular<00:24:49.920> folks.

00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.920
<00:24:50.697> You<00:24:50.993> know,<00:24:51.290> the<00:24:51.587> society,<00:24:51.883> our<00:24:52.180> culture<00:24:52.477> doesn't<00:24:52.773> want<00:24:53.070> the<00:24:53.367> doctor's<00:24:53.663> death<00:24:53.960> anymore.

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They<00:24:55.120> want<00:24:55.600> their<00:24:55.760> own<00:24:55.960> experience.<00:24:56.520> They<00:24:56.640> want<00:24:56.840> their<00:24:56.960> voice<00:24:57.240> to<00:24:57.360> matter.

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They<00:24:58.040> don't<00:24:58.200> want<00:24:58.360> a<00:24:58.440> hospitalized<00:24:59.120> death.<00:24:59.360> They<00:24:59.440> don't<00:24:59.560> want<00:24:59.720> an<00:24:59.800> institutionalized<00:25:00.680> death.

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They<00:25:01.440> want<00:25:01.600> to<00:25:01.680> be<00:25:02.040> with<00:25:02.280> their<00:25:02.440> loved<00:25:02.760> ones.<00:25:02.960> They<00:25:03.080> want<00:25:03.200> to<00:25:03.280> be<00:25:03.360> at<00:25:03.520> home.

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So,<00:25:04.200> I<00:25:04.280> think<00:25:04.720> that<00:25:05.200> the<00:25:05.400> future<00:25:05.840> patients,<00:25:06.440> those<00:25:06.680> of<00:25:06.800> us<00:25:07.000> who<00:25:07.200> will<00:25:07.440> be<00:25:07.680> there,<00:25:08.800> um...<00:25:08.960> are...<00:25:09.320> are<00:25:09.440> having<00:25:09.760> a<00:25:09.800> different<00:25:10.120> experience.

00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:14.320
<00:25:11.523> Are<00:25:11.685> having<00:25:11.848> a<00:25:12.011> different<00:25:12.173> experience.<00:25:12.336> <00:25:12.499> Yes.<00:25:12.661> Yeah,<00:25:12.824> one<00:25:12.987> in<00:25:13.149> which<00:25:13.312> they<00:25:13.475> have<00:25:13.637> a<00:25:13.800> say.

00:25:14.320 --> 00:25:22.600
<00:25:14.642> And<00:25:14.963> so,<00:25:15.285> for<00:25:15.606> those<00:25:15.928> of<00:25:16.250> us<00:25:16.571> who<00:25:16.893> are<00:25:17.214> in<00:25:17.536> a<00:25:17.858> position...<00:25:18.179> There<00:25:18.501> are<00:25:18.822> so<00:25:19.144> many<00:25:19.466> people<00:25:19.787> who<00:25:20.109> are<00:25:20.430> listening<00:25:20.752> who<00:25:21.074> are<00:25:21.395> either<00:25:21.717> caregivers<00:25:22.038> or<00:25:22.360> will

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be<00:25:22.760> caregivers<00:25:23.320> in<00:25:23.440> their<00:25:23.600> lifetime,<00:25:24.840> um,<00:25:25.240> for<00:25:25.640> end<00:25:25.960> of...<00:25:26.360> end<00:25:26.720> of<00:25:27.040> life<00:25:27.320> experiences<00:25:28.120> for<00:25:28.280> their<00:25:28.480> family<00:25:28.880> members.

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And<00:25:29.978> you<00:25:30.236> want<00:25:30.495> them<00:25:30.753> to<00:25:31.011> know<00:25:31.269> what?<00:25:31.527> <00:25:31.785> Dying<00:25:32.044> is<00:25:32.302> progressive<00:25:32.560> sleep.

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And<00:25:33.520> it's<00:25:33.800> <00:25:34.080> Dying<00:25:34.360> is<00:25:34.640> progressive<00:25:34.920> sleep.

00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.680
<00:25:35.690> And...<00:25:35.940> and<00:25:36.190> in<00:25:36.440> that<00:25:36.690> state,<00:25:36.940> it<00:25:37.190> makes<00:25:37.440> sense.

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What<00:25:37.840> matters<00:25:38.280> to<00:25:38.440> you<00:25:38.600> from<00:25:38.800> diagnosis<00:25:39.520> to<00:25:39.680> death<00:25:39.960> is<00:25:40.080> going<00:25:40.200> to<00:25:40.320> change.

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And<00:25:41.280> it's<00:25:41.440> natural<00:25:42.800> that<00:25:43.200> as<00:25:43.400> you<00:25:43.520> get<00:25:43.680> closer<00:25:44.120> to<00:25:44.240> the<00:25:44.360> end,<00:25:44.480> you're<00:25:44.560> going<00:25:44.680> to<00:25:44.800> reflect<00:25:45.280> on<00:25:45.360> what<00:25:45.520> mattered<00:25:45.920> most<00:25:46.280> to<00:25:46.360> you.

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And<00:25:47.280> our<00:25:47.400> greatest<00:25:47.760> achievement...<00:25:48.400> our...<00:25:48.920> It's<00:25:49.160> our<00:25:49.280> relationships.

00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:53.080
You're<00:25:50.320> going<00:25:50.440> to<00:25:50.520> return<00:25:51.040> back<00:25:51.400> to<00:25:51.560> love.<00:25:51.920> It's<00:25:52.080> love<00:25:52.320> that<00:25:52.480> endures.

00:25:53.080 --> 00:25:58.560
<00:25:53.333> Mhm.<00:25:53.585> <00:25:53.838> And<00:25:54.091> you<00:25:54.343> know,<00:25:54.596> the<00:25:54.848> expression,<00:25:55.101> you<00:25:55.354> know,<00:25:55.606> fighting<00:25:55.859> the<00:25:56.112> dying<00:25:56.364> of<00:25:56.617> the<00:25:56.869> light,<00:25:57.122> they're<00:25:57.375> not<00:25:57.627> fighting<00:25:57.880> against.

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They're<00:25:58.760> actually<00:25:59.120> fighting<00:25:59.640> towards.<00:26:00.200> They're<00:26:00.400> fighting<00:26:00.760> towards<00:26:01.240> trying<00:26:01.480> to<00:26:01.560> get<00:26:01.760> back<00:26:02.160> to<00:26:02.280> those<00:26:02.640> they've<00:26:02.880> loved<00:26:03.160> and<00:26:03.280> they've<00:26:03.480> lost.

00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:11.160
<00:26:04.514> Yes,<00:26:04.829> and<00:26:05.143> you<00:26:05.457> realized,<00:26:05.771> uh,<00:26:06.086> later<00:26:06.400> in<00:26:06.714> life<00:26:07.029> that<00:26:07.343> you<00:26:07.657> are<00:26:07.971> in<00:26:08.286> this<00:26:08.600> work<00:26:08.914> because<00:26:09.229> of<00:26:09.543> your<00:26:09.857> experience<00:26:10.171> with<00:26:10.486> your<00:26:10.800> father.

00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:15.960
Tell<00:26:11.388> us<00:26:11.616> about<00:26:11.845> that.<00:26:12.073> <00:26:12.301> Mhm.<00:26:12.529> Yeah,<00:26:12.758> I...<00:26:12.986> The<00:26:13.214> last<00:26:13.442> time<00:26:13.671> I<00:26:13.899> saw<00:26:14.127> my<00:26:14.355> dad,<00:26:14.584> I<00:26:14.812> was<00:26:15.040> 12.

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And<00:26:16.480> he<00:26:16.840> was<00:26:17.520> in<00:26:17.760> one<00:26:17.920> of<00:26:18.000> these<00:26:18.200> states.

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And,<00:26:19.600> um,<00:26:19.800> we<00:26:20.000> fished<00:26:20.440> every<00:26:20.720> year<00:26:21.040> up<00:26:21.200> north<00:26:21.560> in<00:26:21.680> Canada.

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And<00:26:22.920> he<00:26:23.080> was<00:26:23.520> getting<00:26:23.760> me<00:26:23.880> ready<00:26:24.160> to<00:26:24.280> go<00:26:24.440> on<00:26:24.560> a<00:26:24.600> plane<00:26:25.960> to<00:26:26.080> go,<00:26:26.800> uh,<00:26:26.920> up<00:26:27.160> north.

00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.800
And<00:26:28.138> that's<00:26:28.396> the<00:26:28.653> last<00:26:28.911> time<00:26:29.169> I<00:26:29.427> saw<00:26:29.684> him.<00:26:29.942> <00:26:30.200> Mhm.

00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:33.160
<00:26:30.960> So,<00:26:31.120> I<00:26:31.280> was<00:26:31.440> having<00:26:31.600> an<00:26:31.760> aversion<00:26:31.920> to<00:26:32.080> this<00:26:32.240> whole<00:26:32.400> thing.

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And<00:26:33.280> I<00:26:33.360> ended<00:26:33.640> up<00:26:33.800> in<00:26:33.920> this<00:26:34.120> work<00:26:34.440> more<00:26:34.600> or<00:26:34.680> less<00:26:34.880> by<00:26:35.080> accident.

00:26:35.600 --> 00:26:39.440
I<00:26:35.640> was<00:26:35.800> just<00:26:36.080> moonlighting<00:26:36.840> at<00:26:37.040> hospice<00:26:37.560> while<00:26:37.680> I<00:26:37.720> was<00:26:37.840> a<00:26:37.880> cardiology<00:26:38.520> fellow.

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And<00:26:39.840> I'm<00:26:40.000> seeing<00:26:40.240> these<00:26:40.400> patients,<00:26:40.840> and<00:26:40.920> the<00:26:41.000> first<00:26:41.320> time<00:26:41.520> as<00:26:41.640> a<00:26:41.680> physician,<00:26:42.840> I'm<00:26:43.000> not<00:26:43.160> allowed<00:26:43.400> to<00:26:43.480> sign<00:26:43.800> off.

00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.600
I<00:26:44.080> actually<00:26:44.360> have<00:26:44.480> to<00:26:44.560> be<00:26:44.720> a<00:26:44.760> comforter<00:26:45.320> and<00:26:45.440> be<00:26:45.600> present.

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And<00:26:47.080> I<00:26:47.200> saw<00:26:47.520> what<00:26:47.760> I<00:26:47.880> had<00:26:48.080> seen<00:26:48.320> as<00:26:48.440> a<00:26:48.520> kid.

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And<00:26:50.044> I<00:26:50.288> didn't<00:26:50.533> <00:26:50.777> Of<00:26:51.021> your<00:26:51.265> father?<00:26:51.509> <00:26:51.754> Yeah.<00:26:51.998> You<00:26:52.242> know,<00:26:52.486> and...<00:26:52.731> and<00:26:52.975> I...<00:26:53.219> and<00:26:53.463> I...<00:26:53.707> I,<00:26:53.952> um,<00:26:54.196> understand<00:26:54.440> it.

00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:00.760
I...<00:26:55.120> I<00:26:55.160> still<00:26:55.440> don't<00:26:55.600> know<00:26:55.720> where<00:26:55.880> it<00:26:55.960> comes<00:26:56.240> from,<00:26:56.520> but<00:26:56.720> I<00:26:56.760> don't<00:26:56.920> know<00:26:57.000> where<00:26:57.120> love<00:26:57.440> comes<00:26:57.760> from,<00:26:58.040> but<00:26:58.240> I<00:26:58.320> understood<00:26:58.840> that<00:26:58.960> it...<00:26:59.040> what<00:26:59.200> it<00:26:59.280> meant<00:26:59.560> to<00:26:59.680> the<00:27:00.040> patient<00:27:00.520> and<00:27:00.680> I

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certainly<00:27:01.080> understood<00:27:01.400> what<00:27:01.480> it<00:27:01.560> meant<00:27:01.720> to<00:27:01.800> their<00:27:01.960> family.<00:27:03.080> So,<00:27:03.200> we<00:27:03.240> got<00:27:03.360> to<00:27:03.440> just<00:27:03.560> learn<00:27:03.720> to<00:27:03.800> have<00:27:04.000> reverence<00:27:04.480> for<00:27:04.720> it.

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And<00:27:05.876> that's<00:27:06.071> how<00:27:06.267> I<00:27:06.462> got<00:27:06.658> to<00:27:06.853> this<00:27:07.049> <00:27:07.244> Cuz<00:27:07.440> you<00:27:07.636> experienced<00:27:07.831> the<00:27:08.027> same<00:27:08.222> thing<00:27:08.418> with<00:27:08.613> those<00:27:08.809> patients<00:27:09.004> that<00:27:09.200> you<00:27:09.396> would<00:27:09.591> experience<00:27:09.787> the<00:27:09.982> last<00:27:10.178> time<00:27:10.373> you<00:27:10.569> saw<00:27:10.764> your<00:27:10.960> father.

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<00:27:11.760> Yeah.<00:27:12.040> Yeah.<00:27:12.320> <00:27:12.600> Well,<00:27:12.880> Dr.<00:27:13.160> Chris<00:27:13.440> Kerr,<00:27:13.720> thank<00:27:14.000> you<00:27:14.280> so<00:27:14.560> much<00:27:14.840> for<00:27:15.120> being<00:27:15.400> here<00:27:15.680> and<00:27:15.960> for<00:27:16.240> the<00:27:16.520> life-affirming<00:27:16.800> work<00:27:17.080> that<00:27:17.360> you<00:27:17.640> and<00:27:17.920> all<00:27:18.200> of<00:27:18.480> your<00:27:18.760> team<00:27:19.040> members

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do<00:27:19.960> every<00:27:20.360> day,<00:27:20.800> every<00:27:21.080> day.

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And<00:27:21.440> for<00:27:21.560> listening<00:27:22.160> to<00:27:22.800> the<00:27:22.920> nurses.

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<00:27:24.374> [laughter]<00:27:24.679> <00:27:24.985> Okay.<00:27:25.290> Death<00:27:25.596> is<00:27:25.901> but<00:27:26.207> a<00:27:26.512> Dream,<00:27:26.818> available<00:27:27.123> wherever<00:27:27.429> books<00:27:27.734> are<00:27:28.040> sold.

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We'll<00:27:28.520> see<00:27:28.640> you<00:27:28.760> back<00:27:28.920> here<00:27:29.080> next<00:27:29.320> time.<00:27:29.920> Thanks,<00:27:30.160> everybody.

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As<00:27:32.040> always,<00:27:32.680> I<00:27:32.800> thank<00:27:33.120> you<00:27:33.200> for<00:27:33.320> joining<00:27:33.680> the<00:27:33.880> Oprah<00:27:34.120> podcast.

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And<00:27:34.800> if<00:27:34.920> you're<00:27:35.040> a<00:27:35.080> caregiver<00:27:35.680> at<00:27:35.800> the<00:27:35.880> bedside<00:27:36.440> of<00:27:36.560> a<00:27:36.600> loved<00:27:36.840> one,<00:27:37.480> I<00:27:37.560> hope<00:27:37.800> you'll<00:27:37.960> take<00:27:38.160> a<00:27:38.200> moment<00:27:38.640> to<00:27:38.760> acknowledge<00:27:39.360> the<00:27:39.480> sacredness,<00:27:39.789> [music]<00:27:40.720> the<00:27:40.840> holiness,<00:27:41.440> and

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profound<00:27:42.200> sense<00:27:42.440> of<00:27:42.680> living<00:27:43.280> that<00:27:43.440> comes<00:27:43.960> with<00:27:44.320> the<00:27:44.480> dying<00:27:45.080> experience.

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And<00:27:46.040> if<00:27:46.120> this<00:27:46.280> conversation<00:27:47.000> resonated<00:27:47.560> with<00:27:47.760> you,<00:27:48.320> I<00:27:48.440> encourage<00:27:48.920> you<00:27:48.959> [music]<00:27:49.040> to<00:27:49.160> get<00:27:49.360> your<00:27:49.520> own<00:27:49.720> copy<00:27:50.120> of<00:27:50.240> Death<00:27:50.560> is<00:27:50.760> but<00:27:50.960> a<00:27:51.000> Dream.

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The<00:27:51.640> stories<00:27:52.040> in<00:27:52.120> this<00:27:52.280> book<00:27:52.600> will<00:27:53.120> reframe<00:27:53.800> your<00:27:54.080> understanding<00:27:54.880> of<00:27:55.080> life's<00:27:55.640> final<00:27:56.040> journey.

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To<00:27:56.840> buy<00:27:57.080> a<00:27:57.160> copy,<00:27:57.480> simply<00:27:57.800> scan<00:27:58.120> the<00:27:58.140> [music]<00:27:58.240> QR<00:27:58.600> code<00:27:59.000> that's<00:27:59.280> right<00:27:59.520> there<00:27:59.920> on<00:28:00.080> your<00:28:00.200> screen.

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Our<00:28:01.400> listeners<00:28:02.000> tell<00:28:02.280> us<00:28:02.600> that<00:28:03.240> the<00:28:03.320> podcast<00:28:03.369> [music]<00:28:03.840> is<00:28:04.000> resonating<00:28:04.600> with<00:28:04.760> you<00:28:05.040> and<00:28:05.720> is<00:28:05.880> serving<00:28:06.240> as<00:28:06.360> a<00:28:06.440> bright<00:28:06.760> spot<00:28:07.080> in<00:28:07.200> your<00:28:07.320> day.

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That<00:28:08.360> means<00:28:08.600> a<00:28:08.620> [music]<00:28:08.680> lot<00:28:09.000> to<00:28:09.120> me.<00:28:09.280> So,<00:28:09.800> here's<00:28:10.080> the<00:28:10.160> thing.

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I<00:28:10.960> would<00:28:11.160> really<00:28:11.400> appreciate<00:28:12.000> it<00:28:12.240> if<00:28:12.640> you<00:28:13.160> like<00:28:13.520> and<00:28:13.680> subscribe<00:28:14.280> to<00:28:14.400> the<00:28:14.560> Oprah<00:28:14.800> podcast<00:28:15.640> on<00:28:15.840> YouTube<00:28:16.520> or<00:28:16.800> wherever<00:28:17.124> [music]<00:28:17.200> you<00:28:17.320> podcast.

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It's...<00:28:18.520> It's<00:28:18.720> just<00:28:18.960> a<00:28:19.000> quick<00:28:19.360> tap<00:28:20.120> of<00:28:20.240> the<00:28:20.320> subscribe<00:28:20.960> button.

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And<00:28:22.000> that<00:28:22.240> way,<00:28:22.364> [music]<00:28:22.720> you<00:28:22.840> won't<00:28:23.080> miss<00:28:23.280> an<00:28:23.360> episode<00:28:23.920> in<00:28:24.000> your<00:28:24.160> queue.

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You<00:28:24.680> don't<00:28:24.800> have<00:28:24.960> to<00:28:25.080> pay<00:28:25.680> anything.<00:28:26.920> I<00:28:27.000> know<00:28:27.160> subscribe<00:28:27.720> usually<00:28:28.040> means<00:28:28.259> [music]<00:28:28.280> you're<00:28:28.400> paying<00:28:28.760> something,<00:28:29.160> but<00:28:29.320> this<00:28:29.520> time<00:28:29.880> it<00:28:30.040> means<00:28:30.720> you<00:28:30.880> just<00:28:31.360> are<00:28:31.480> notified

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when<00:28:32.640> there's<00:28:33.040> something<00:28:33.400> new.<00:28:33.920> There<00:28:34.040> are<00:28:34.120> many<00:28:34.360> more<00:28:34.560> to<00:28:34.640> come<00:28:35.000> that<00:28:35.200> we're<00:28:35.320> excited<00:28:35.720> about.

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So,<00:28:36.200> thank<00:28:36.520> you<00:28:36.640> for<00:28:36.840> watching<00:28:37.240> and<00:28:37.400> listening.<00:28:37.429> [music]

```